Hello.
It's
Hazo. Hey,
it's, and I'm
Jermaine and welcome back to another episode of Clarity.
Today's episode. How believe we've never spoke about this? I think we spoke about it in bits and pieces over the other relationship episodes, but it's about living together with a romantic partner.
Ok. Quick question for the floor. Have you ever lived with your partner before? Yes or no. 321.
Yes. Ok. So we all have that experience. Be it like before marriage during marriage.
Who are you? Ok. Wait, wait, define living together. Is it like the occasional stayovers? But like maybe many times in a week living
together is you move in with the person, the person move in with you or you both move into a place together? So you don't? That is your home? That is your primary home. So, still, yes. Your answer. Hazy.
You know what?
Oh, yeah. Uh Oh. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ok. So the answer is, yes. Ok. For all three of us, I think a lot has changed in the last decade on partners living together. Right. And I think in the past maybe our parents generation, my God,
they would not have done that. No,
such a big taboo to live together before marriage.
Agree. I think it was more of a taboo for the girl than the boy, right? Because once you move in together with this guy before getting married and the people point the fingers at you last time in Chinese to put, which means you like taking care of itself. Not the mere, not, not, not.
I think cohabiting to me personally is the key to a successful relationship. I'm 100% pro this, I'm so pro this. That's how I feel about living together with your partner and how much it affects a relationship. But you may feel different and that's OK. That's what we're here to discuss. Yes.
Tell me more. Why do you think is the key to a successful relationship?
Actually, I've cohabited with every single one of my partners. There is a caveat to that. I think for some of my partners, I was probably too young to have cohabited with them. And I probably should not have very much to the chagrin of my parents, but it's OK. Sorry, I'm older now. But at a certain point, I think especially if you're thinking, ok, this partner might be my lifetime commitment. I might want to marry this person or I might just wanna be with this person for the
rest of my life. That is when you think OK, cohabiting, it's as important as sex to intimacy
for sex is important.
Sex is important and communication is important but so is cohabiting.
But I'm gonna stand on the other side of the few and say that sometimes, right? When you stay together, that romantic bubble just burst, but eventually you're gonna have to do that also. I know so some people might want to prolong that feeling of like absence makes the heart grow for, you know what I mean? Right. If you don't stay together, you always look forward to seeing each other the next time, the coming weekend, go about your movie days. Whatever
that is one of the problems in one of my relationships that we became roommates like each other. Yeah, you kind of just get so comfortable. You became roommates. But I do think that is something that is a choice. You have to keep having the intention of this is a romantic relationship. This is not a roommate ship. Keep trying at that every day and keep that in mind. Ok.
So how different is it in your car? Current relationship? How do you keep yourselves from turning to like, what is it?
Well, the key thing is you have to share responsibilities in the household but still keep that romantic spark alive. Right. So have intentional things like date nights outside of the house, go for a date night, once every two weeks, once a month, whatever works for you to just remind yourself a we're a couple we're not like,
but actually date night, once every two weeks or once a month is very long,
very long. Yeah. No, we have to find time. Do it sometimes to go. Don't you feel like when you have the right person? Even, like non intentional dates feel like a date. Like, even cooking together at home, grocery shopping, grocery shopping together, going furniture shopping. And I actually have good knife skills. I'm good at prepping with those nails that you see anything with fire, keep me away. But I'm good at prepping. I'm good at the starting part. Ok. I'm good at eating
the the finishing part. Yeah. But ok, so hazy, you don't think it's important to live with your partner before marriage? Ok. Question. So you've had relationships where you don't live with the person, right? And then you've also had one that you live with the person. What do you think is the biggest difference?
Like what I mentioned, the romantic spark that bubble, that fairy tale sort of like facade just disappears when you stay together too long.
But a new kind of romance develops. I agree. I
agree. But is it different kind of romance? Like what you mentioned, you stop chasing each other but you are very comfortable with each other, which is not a bad thing. You start doing household chores together instead of going on cafe dates together, that kind of difference. Nothing wrong. But it just depends on what you're seeking this relationship. But
if you're looking at marriage, it's also still gonna happen.
Correct. It's still gonna come in time. You just want to hold it out a little bit. Yeah. To some people it might be like that. And I think the biggest thing about staying together with your partner is that you might actually see a different side of a self that is not the good side. But
I think that's important because if you never see the full picture of your partner and then you get married and then you move in together and then, then that's too late.
In this case. I'm not saying like the full picture of my partner, I'm seeing the full picture of myself. Like when I stay with someone, I actually become like that, I become so comfortable with this person that maybe sometimes I accidentally show him the uglier side of me
what they like.
No, like sometimes when I get frustrated, I get angry and it's not a side that I want to show my partner. But the same
way you want to see everything before you commit, they should also be able to see everything you think. So I think it's important because regardless if you show it now you show it later, it will come out, you still have to deal with it, you still have to deal with it. And I think some of the reasons why people choose to, I guess cohabitate with their partner before marriage, we'll talk about, like, in some cultures how it's not acceptable later on. Right.
But those who are ok with it and your parents are ok with it. One of the biggest reasons is to test your compatibility. Ok. Right. If you're only seeing each other once or twice a week outside on dates, it's very hard to know if you are truly 100% compatible.
Very true. The thing is even if you see each other a lot over a long period of time, I think there are certain things that only comes out at home that only if you live with that person you'll see or you'll learn or you sort of like learn how to navigate around, you know.
So I have two friends. I love them dearly. They are a couple, they chose to stay together because of financial reasons. They can share the rent, they can speak groceries, bills, everything. And my friend, she's grown to see how reliable of a person that man is. He cooks for her. He washes things for her like even simple things like an apple. The boyfriend will ask you want eat apple or not. My friend would like, you slice that law and then you really slice apple for her. Like it's
very tiny things but very sweet. Very,
very so I know someone right whose parents believe that you should cohabitate before you get married.
The parents believe very
progressive, very good. I like. So they're looking at marriage in the near future. And the parents said we're not trying to chase you out. But before you get married, get out of the house, go rent because you're going to run your own household when you get married. So now you go run your own household. Figure out your financial situation if you're gonna fight now
because after you get married it's too late. Basically. Correct.
Basically. I think things like groceries, bills, like when everything is under your management and control. Right. I think it changes things and I agree because in the past my partner's cohabited with me under my parents roof and we didn't have to do anything. Everything is up to their care and we just live there. But now that I'm cohabiting with my partner, it's like it's his place. Right?
So now it's our home. So everything we have to take care of it right from like if the bill goes out, we be like, ok, why, why is he just told me the other day the electrical bill went up. I was like, oh, shit, what have we been doing? It turns out it's because we have a new puppy now. And so we have to turn on the air con in a whole different room all night. So she's the reason for it anyways, things like that, being independent and financially independent in your
own home is so much different than cohabiting. Other. Your parents
agree. Emotional readiness is also one thing, I think some couples want to take the relationship to the next level and strengthen it. So, one of the better ways or one of the good ways to go about doing it is moving up and then see how you can handle your emotions when you just, you and your partner without the involvement of any family members.
That's true. I mean, it is, it's the choice between we live together and it doesn't work. Let's break up. Yeah, we got married already now. We have to get a divorce, which is complicated. Right. Yeah, it's complicated. And I think a lot of people move in together sometimes because they're not sure if they want to get married yet. So they live together first and maybe delay marriage a little bit or they wanna, like I said, avoid having to get a divorce because they haven't seen the full picture.
But at the same time, I can also understand why some people they refuse to move in together before getting married. Of course, there's a lot of like social stigma, especially for females and a traditional. Would you think that Singapore is a traditional country? Like in terms of these values,
certain cultures, I think slightly conservative still because in the US parents expect their kids to move out at 18. Be it with a partner without a partner, correct. No one in Singapore expects that. Firstly because it's damn expensive. And also I think parents are a bit more like protective kids with them.
I'm always my mother's little baby when I first wanted to move out. She's ha why? For what your p which means? Is it necessary?
I think religion is another big thing which is why in some cultures it's completely taboo taboo think. Yeah, because living together before marriage to some people, it implies that the couple is intimate and in some cultures that is not acceptable. So I think with, it comes a lot of stigma. I think also one thing that people maybe would not choose to live with their partners because
you have different living habits. Maybe one is a super morning person, one is a super night owl and then they just want to stay up all night and then you disturb the other person. It's so different. Yeah. It's a lot of things that you have to work through. So I work the night shift and my partner is a morning person. I would love to be a morning person, but I can't because I work the night shift. So there are a lot of things like when he wakes
up in the morning because he's so independent. Right? He doesn't think that through no bad intention, but he doesn't realize that I'm still trying to sleep. So he open door, close the door, make coffee, do this, do that and it's like really loud and the machine goes, yeah, every morning, that's my alarm. So, I have a conversation with him like a few months ago after we started living together, I was like, babe,
I need to sleep. I like, I'm still asleep. Can you just try, like, in a very nice way you have to communicate. You can't be like, no, you have to be like, can you please just be a bit quiet? Try to tone it down. They're not aware, it's not, there's no malicious intention and to his credit, he really reach, he opened the door. So now I close it so quietly. If our puppy is making noise, you could get her and make sure that they don't like, they don't like disturb me.
I had the same conversation with my mother. She likes to open the door like bang and I think the thing very loudly then the next morning. Oh my God.
Not just OK. You know, I mean, don't look at partners, right? Just look at your own house or your own family. Everyone has their own little self.
Yeah,
that sometimes drives you fucking nuts. My biggest, let me tell you my biggest thing, right? Is if I find things in my butter, I'm sorry, what are you
talking
about? You know, use butter, right? Everyone uses that butter, right? But you know, when someone uses like a like they already use something, a dirty knife, correct? And they put it in the butter and the like crs are there, for example, I sometimes peanut butter goes into.
That must be the weirdest pet peeve ever
me. Not. So if I open the fucking button and I see these things drive me crazy. I have a very simple solution for you. Buy my own, your own butter, label it a zero but
do not and buy your own knife, label it a zero knife. Do not,
do not touch. This is my butter and my butter only very simple solution to save you. A lot of grief.
That's a horror story right there. But what some of the other horror stories that we have read online about moving in together?
Ok. So this one from Reddit and this person says we were dating for a year before moving in together and I thought I knew him in and out because we spend so much time together. Despite not living together, we were always around each other and moving in just didn't seem like it was such a big deal upon moving in. We found out that we both are very different. He didn't think that he would have to cook or clean or basically do anything. He assumed that it was my the girls job
shame on you.
You don't have a clean house before I moved in. I thought he was a minimalist because he didn't really have anything around his apartment. But turns out is because it's easy for him to manage because he doesn't like to clean cook or anything like that. Another thing that would really annoy me is that I have a dog and he will always leave the gate open, which is very dangerous dog, run out, get run over my car, all that. I told him to be extra careful and he didn't seem to care at all.
I got tired of being his mom and very soon after we broke up once the lease ended, so living together before marriage, even though I encountered many unpleasant surprises and it led to the end of the relationship without it, I wouldn't have known until it was too late,
a blessing in this guy. So
it's better to find out. But don't you think so? I think so. I've got another horror story. But before that hazy, because you said right, that you think I said you're not really for living together, correct?
I would say I would way carefully. The are the pros and cons. So
would you
do it again? Yes. As much as I think, you know, I want to extend the romantic relationship, the romantic side of things ultimately is still a very practical decision to move in together. And I feel like with the right steps taken, you can still enhance that romantic relationship even more thing together. So
how would you do it differently or better at this time?
First of all, manage my own emotions, better explain it like why I'm feeling this way? Secondly, be more conscious, I feel like sometimes you need to put effort to like, have a little cook night together, sit down, eat together or just like, have a glass of beer and look at the view. Simple things like that. Very simple things. But can make a world of a difference. So.
Right. I've got friend, she lives by herself. The guy lives by himself. They were not together at this point. This was COVID and they don't live in Singapore. So it was locked down, right? And you can't go out. And I think because it's Malaysia. So it's like rather far apart. Ok. OK. One day he decided to confess his love you, but you can't go out. So the only way is if you're exercising. So he cycle all the way to
her house like four hours, I think. Wow, profess his love and then moved in right away, just him and his bicycle and they've lived together since. So it's like literally from day one. Wow, it's OK. In Singapore, the furthest you can cycle is like very
far to
Jurong,
to Pasir Ris far, very far, very far, very far for
them. I mean, that's a success story. It's very interesting. It's not hard. Sorry, I have a question for Hazy because now you own your own place. So if you were to have a partner that you would want to cohabitate with, would you want to rent a new place with your partner or have your partner cohabitate with you in your existing place.
The first option is not even something I would consider. Why would I rent a new place
so that you still have your own space? I know a few friends like that. They still keep their own space. Then they cohabitate with their partner in a shared space. I would prefer
making new memories together in a space. I call mine. I think this makes it more meaningful but I see where you're coming from. I never thought like that could be an option. Then if it doesn't work there, how burn the house? No la then you move out and be happy every day is like
that one. Yeah. So I know we've said a couple of horror stories but your friend story is a success. I think it's jackpot like one in a million cycle over there and then move in. So let's read you some success stories from its this story says from Singapore cohabited for five years before getting married. Five years long time. After washing the dishes, he leaves a soapy sponge to dry which irks me pet peeve of mine. My hair drops everywhere on the floor, which
irks him. OK? After using the toilet, he doesn't turn off the lights, which irks me and it's likely irritates me. I wash my face in the basin and makes the floor wet. He doesn't like. It sounds like this is a horror story, right? But they communicated they were mature enough to take the feedback and change their habits. Now he squeezes the soap out of the sponges before he leaves the kitchen. I sweep my hair
off the floor once a week as you should. He installed a motion sensor in the toilet so that the light turns on its smart. I now wash my face in the bathroom area instead of the and we're very happy together. So you see, like you, when you see these kind of things, you can iron it out slowly can make compromises.
Yes, but it takes two hands to clap. Some people don't want to make changes. You know, some people just feel like why I'm happy living the way I am correct. They will work out what? So sometimes,
right? I think beyond little things, sometimes it also has to do like with ourselves,
right?
Like OK, let me give you an example. I'm not a morning person. I fucking hate the morning. We can
tell
very obvious grumpy in the morning when you're by yourself. It doesn't matter, right? But I think sometimes we forget. So there has been an instance where I woke up in the morning and I was grumpy as fuck. But then like it's unfair for the other person, you know, and you wouldn't realize or discover or learn until like you go through it. I mean, yeah,
that's what I'm saying. You saw a side of yourself that you're not proud to show and that person doesn't deserve it.
No, it's not about whether they deserve it is about, can they love you through it or not? It's like just this morning my partner, he had very late night, he came home from work dinner at midnight and then he had a 7:30 a.m. call. So to wake up at like 630 he was super grumpy. But I already knew from last night I knew he's going to be grumpy in the morning. So I prepared myself for the grumpiness and gave him a lot more TLC. I was like, oh, like she like a baby, like
very grumpy. It's OK. It's OK. It's ok tomorrow, Saturdays the weekend, things like that. It's like you have to love them through the grumpiness. So it's OK that you got OK. So
if that happens once in a while, that's ok. Sure. But if that happens every day, then I don't think it's like the partner's responsibility to keep likes the other.
You see a therapist?
Have you girls heard of this term? The cohabitation effect.
It kind of scares me like you morph into one person or no cohabitation effect is you're more likely according to research. OK. If you cohabitate before marriage, the success rate of your relationship goes down. Why are the cohabitation? In fact, because when you live together, you find out more things that could potentially ruin your relationship and cause you to break up or get divorced or whatever sorry. Repeat that.
The says yes. The statistic says that if you live together before marriage or before engagement, you're more likely to, you tend to be less satisfied, you tend to be less satisfied with your marriage and more likely that the marriage might not succeed or it might not happen, might not happen, then couples who do not live together for marriage but in my defense. No, but the comparison then would be the breakup rate to the divorce rate. Don't you think so? Is happening earlier?
Whether you're grieving a breakup or grieving a divorce?
No, that's why I say it scares me to hear the statistic but it makes sense because the more you find out about the person, the more chance there is that it might not work out. It is true but it's like a test drive before you buy a car.
Do you actually test drive before you buy a car? Of course, I know.
What are you talking? You test drive first and then you don't like you don't buy OK. Not so bad. No, man. Either way when it comes to moving in with your significant other, there's a lot to think about before you just move in on a whim. I mean your friend cycling all the way to the house moving in. There was a lucky
one in a million. I don't think he
thought he was gonna move in. I think he thought he was just gonna go there. No, she offered to, like, oh, yes,
he must have been too tired to cycle four hours back. I can stay for the night and then once I became to one week and the like, forever,
I mean, there's a lot of things that you should consider and discuss before you decide to move in. It is a commitment. It is a big step. Firstly, you need to be very open and communicate about each other's quirks and habits and pet peeves. Right? Don't just take it in, take it and take it in. It's ok. I'll just take it in. After a few years, you will explode.
Not even a few years sometimes. So you must be really open with your emotions. And I think sharing responsibilities, equal responsibilities is very important. I'm not saying you have to do like 50% of dishes, 50% of the laundry. But if one person does the dishes, then the other person maybe can vacuum the floor mop the floor. Or if these chores really get to you, then my solution is chip in money. Get a part time helper if you outsource. Yeah. Correct.
If it salvages a relationship, why not spend a little money
moving in together also means sharing the financial. You have to discuss how you're going to share expenses. Is it split down the middle or is it like this week? I get groceries next week you get it or I'll pay for this one thing you pay for this other thing, we don't have to 5050 but we both have to put in equal effort because it's very unlikely that you and your partner make the same amount of money. Right. Someone's always gonna pull a bit more of the way. And that's ok. That
happens in most marriages. Yeah. The one thing though, I would try to advise if it's possible for you within your budget, within whatever place that you're renting or buying or wherever you stay with your partner. I think it's very important to have two bathrooms carry on. I think it's very important for the relationship to do your business separately. Nobody else
you do. You can you.
No, but it's different like having your own bathroom. It's almost like having your own personal space. Like this is my my makeup, my skin care, my toothbrush, my everything. This is my space only then he has his space. Is that happening for you right now? Because his shit is really messy. So I cannot take it every time I go in there I pack right the next day is messy again. So my stuff is very organized and this
is my space. I do my makeup here is like my therapy session and I think it's very important because even though you you can say take turns right, sometimes you're rushing out the house, right? One person's brushing the teeth, one person's in the shower and then you're pumping parts in the bathroom is just not as sexy as you think it is.
Well, I once had a girlfriend who, because her partner was using the toilet, they only have one toilet in the house so she couldn't use it. Right. So she had to go downstairs to the, they say the condo like to the public toilet downstairs, do a business and then leave for work from there. So it's like you have along the way kind of thing. She had that all planned out, right? But interesting, a bit inconvenient that I agree. Yeah.
So some tips and advice before we leave you to cohabitate with your partner, have a very thorough and proper discussion about why you want to live together. And you know, what kind of living habits can you debt to each other? They
just make sure your intentions are aligned, your goals are aligned and always remember, conflicts are normal.
Yeah, you need a very open channel of communication. That's right. Maybe you can start small. So don't just like move in right away, start by. I think this is what happened with me also. Like I was saying like one night a week, then two nights, three nights, four nights, five nights, six nights. Can I move in? You know, it was gradual and my stuff also started moving in very grudge
like the
easy take
over. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And also I think it's important to respect each other's boundaries. Like we mentioned, cultural differences, religious differences, so many differences that you have to iron out, sit down and you just set the boundaries for yourself and for your partner.
Absolutely. Well, you're a team at the end of the day. It's not you versus each other. It's you versus the world. Correct? You're not fighting each other. Exactly. We wish you all the very best.
And if you are cohabiting with your partner, you have any comments or thoughts you want to tell us we be most happy to listen to them. Follow us on Instagram at its gray.co. That's right.
You can listen to us on Spotify, Apple Podcast me. Listen, turn on your notification and we're on youtube as well. And yeah, I wish you a very happy home. See you any time. Bye bye.