Hello. It's Hazel.
Hey, and
I'm Jemaine and welcome back to Clever.
Today we are discussing something that we are. Ok, friend.
I'm
thinking so, let, let's start off today's episode, right? Because we're all radio DJ s here. Ok. Let's sing a song that represents friendship to us. Ok. Ok. Ok.
On the count of three,
let's do it one by one. Ok. Ok. Ok. Go first.
Uh, when I think of friends, I think of as we go on, we remember we had to get
so soon every graduation they play a song,
like, review my age with that song there. No, but everybody knows that song, right? The primary school students download
icon. Yeah. What about you? Bottoms up, bottoms up.
Oh,
interesting. Interesting take, um, on, on friendship. I, I see. I see. Ok. Hey, hey,
hey, I would not expect you to sing it. You
are a friend. Thank you. I think that's a very sad song. It's about how friendships change over time, but your friends are always there for you. Yeah, I think so. I'm not sure.
Actually it's quite a positive song. LA but, yeah, also,
also the reason why we talk about friendships is because as we get older people find it hard, hard to make friends and harder to make close friends. And this is something that hazy you actually talked about in the hot pot with the, you got watch.
That's right. That's right. And together with, I felt like it was an entire catch up session right there. So we discussed about friendships and there were a few interesting takeaways from that episode. First of all, Joey Joey. Yeah. Actually classified her friends of tears, you know, like bronze, silver, gold. 00, so she told us that every person she met at first
would automatically go to the gold tier. Oh, yeah. Then based on like how the conversation develops, the person might like downgrade to the silver, bronze or might stay there all the time,
I think platinum.
Yeah, that's all star. You must excel and outperform yourself. Then you can
upgrade for me. Everyone that enters my life is a participating trophy. Correct? Yeah. Then, and then you grow up, you're just a participant.
It's a really interesting takeovers. And also we discuss, have you got sort of like, of course, four more. We all know what that is.
Jos, fear of missing out. Yeah,
Jomo. Come on. Give it a go joy, joy of missing
up, joy of missing
in friendships. Yeah, of course. There's also a lot of joy of missing.
I know like I don't want to go. You all have fun Yeah, you get to
spend all the, you know, is a
real interesting. So, um, I think you guys covered a lot. Make sure you check out the episode of the hot pot. You know? Is it a real hotpot? I wish it's not hot pot. The hop,
hop into different pots to discuss different things.
Ah, ok. You check out that episode of the hot pot and, you know, today I think, let's delve a little bit more into, like, girl friendship. Do you think it's easy to make friends as a girl in general? In general?
Yes. Yes. Because girls talk about very frivolous stuff. Yeah. Like nails, hair, boys.
The easiest place to make friends as girls is the club bathroom. Oh, my God. Nice skirt. Where did you get your shoes? Follow each other? Best friends done. Ok. I would like to tell a story. Ok. This is how Jermaine and I became friends a couple of years ago.
Oh, you guys became friends through the podcast, correct?
Ok. But at that point, maybe we had just met once or twice. What's going on. I'm scared. We had only met once or twice. It was during COVID and we used to go in and out of the building by the side door.
Right.
Right. Yes. Yes. So, at this point, like, we barely knew each other. Not really. Yeah. Yeah. Not really at all. I was standing there and I was always a clown, the clown. That I am is really one kind. Ok. You don't remember this. Not at all. Oh, ok. So you know how there's that railing, right? Glass railing and then over the glass is literally like a thing like with little, oh, with little plants with little plans and then it's two stories down to the floor, correct? Ok. Ok.
Hold on. Sorry, let me paint this picture for you one more time. Ok. So the door that we exit and enter is a level three. Ok. So you're sending a level three to go to level one is via a ram. But from that level three to level one, there's this like little structure with like plants on top. So on
that little thing, you're basically two stories up, correct? Ok. I was standing there, Jeremy just dropped off from the car and is walking up the ramp and I am going, I knocked my phone over my phone, fell into that little thing. This girl comes up. I said, oh my God, I just dropped my phone without she never bat an eyelid. No, no time to think she jump over the glass. Lah. Yeah, I remember I have a video. By the way, I will send it to you all. I risked my life. She jumped over
the glass immediately. I pushed her out for someone I barely knew to get my phone for me.
Best friends, best friends. So yes,
that's how our friendship. I don't remember now I see. I see. Yeah. Wow. Wow. And then I was like, oh my God.
And the fact that she forgot it, see,
why did I do that? So, yeah, there are many different ways to make friends. I would not advise that way. So, so
is a gold star friend now because
like back for life. So you can't say it's hard to make friends in adulthood. We are all adults. I think we make friends just fine, honestly. Yeah. But then again, maybe some people would say that we are extroverts. Oh, you
are correct and, and given the line of work that we work in, it's easy for us to communicate effectively with people. I will
say we make friends just fine, but it's hard to make close friends. Close friends have to stand the test of time and loyal and all that, right? And it's similar to what Joey has. Bronze, silver, gold, right? They are actually tiers of friendships, right? If you look at tier one participating, trophy. Ok, acquaintances. Yes. These are people that you know, someone like, hello. Hello, bye. Limited conversation. It's not someone that you really know in depth or would maybe like meet one on one on
an extended period of time. Ok. Level two, just friends. This is like probably, you know, a bigger circle that you see on and off. You feel comfortable meeting them. You have a good feeling about them and you share this mutual like friendship and support can get together and all she can spend time can go
out for dinner, one on one kind. Ok.
The top level close friends, so close friends are the people that you can be completely yourself. You know, they don't judge you. They offer you a very high level of support, you know, and you know, that you can confide in them and it's safe with them, basically. Level four, in my opinion, are people that transcend close friends. So whenever you meet people, right, they either take energy from you or give energy to you. Right? For me, I classify the highest level of friends as people that
I don't feel are taking energy from me. Yeah, you can just spend like the whole day with them and you don't feel exhausted or like your social battery has strained. Level four is also sometimes you rarely ever see them and then you just send memes all the time and then you can call at any time crying. 00 yeah, that's a, yeah. So, so love for a friendship, I, I would say it's someone that doesn't drain your social, your energy as they call it. It's like comfort.
Yeah, it is like comfort. Um I thought this was quite interesting. So basically I was looking online, right? And there is a British psychologist, his name is Robin Dunbar. Robin, you don't act like, you know who Robin is, Robin Dunbar? Robin Dunbar. And uh Mr Dong Bos says that humans are only cognitively able to maintain about 150 connections at once. Real connections a lot. No, no, there's very few because imagine how many people you follow on social media.
Probably think about it. No. But I don't talk to all these people. I follow on social media on a daily basis. Right. Right.
Exactly. So, it's different.
I don't even talk to 15 people a day. Exactly. Like on a close basis. You know what I mean? Like stuff like that. 150
people is a genuine connection. Yeah. How many close friend connections would you guys say you have, like, if you would count really close friends, like close, close, right? Like, can call it three and basically whatever your definition of cloth is. Ok. I think
for me about 20 a lot of it, I mean, different parts of my life. I'm close to different people. Primary school, secondary school JC.
One has a different definition of close friends. So, your definition, right. So, how many people would you consider your close friends? Me? Yes. 10, maybe 10. Ok. I, I would say I have about six or seven. Yeah. I think to be a close friend it has to be someone that it's on a higher level of friendship. Yeah. And in fact, for most people research says that you need about 3 to 6 close friends to maintain a good physical well being and mental health at least 3 to 6.
And I think the keyword is close friends, not just any normal friend. Correct.
That's absolutely right. Yeah. Um, so when you think about how many people you meet in your adulthood, how many actually can get past acquaintance level? Do you think it's harder when we are older? Ok. Question. First of all, before we get there. Right. If you look at your close friends in which part of your life did they come in?
Um, I think different phases. I have one very close friend from primary school, one from secondary school, a couple from JC, a couple from UNI and then at work there's also a few here and there and they
add up right for me as well. Different stages. Some go way back like 15 years ago. Some are new like in the last two years but still part of that close friend circle. Some should jump over the glass to take the phone. Yeah, I wish I didn't. Yeah. So I, I think it comes from different stages of your life because there are some people who believe that the friends that you carry with you in your life mostly come from the earlier part of your life.
So school, for example, primary school, secondary school, some people believe that. Hm.
No, I always feel like um there's a different person in a different stage of your correct and you must allow for that to happen. Right. You can't keep clinging on to your friends from the past. I feel like you should allow yourself that space to make new emotional connections and new friendships.
That is true. I don't think a 10 year friendship is always necessarily stronger than a two year friendship. Yes. Yeah. Fair
point. But I think in adulthood it's definitely easier to make acquaintances, but it's not hard to make close friends as long as you want it to happen. I do feel like as an adult I'm a lot more selective in choosing my friends. Yeah. But once I've chosen them, I do think that I make pretty good choices. So, what about you, girls?
I think when you're young. Right. It may be, it may seem easier to make friends because your threshold for close friends is a lot bigger. It's like anyone can be my close friend, like, every day, you know, you come home from primary school, like, I have a new best friend. I have a new best friend. Right. And everyone is open to making friends in school also. Your problems are not as severe then. That's true. Yeah, that's true. It's like who's willing to stick around even
though your life may be in shambles. Is that what you say as you get older, you see your problems grow. Right. Right. And then, like I said, right. And this is something that I've been saying, I think quite a bit to people around me, which is thank you for being around and thank you for always speaking up the pieces and mending the heart that you never broke in the first place. All friends are right. Pick up the pieces with you and they are mending a heart that didn't ever broke.
They are so nice. Ok? But don't let anyone break your heart. You break that. Ok? I will break you. She's very scary. No, no, no, no, no. But yeah, I think making friends when you're an adult is not, is not that deep, right? Correct. People always think, oh, you have to have like a strong level of connection. Um You have to go networking events to meet them, but really it can just be anyone that you meet from anywhere. Yeah, I think
a lot of people have the misconception that making friends in your adulthood, you have to invest a lot of time and energy apart from your work, which is taking up so much commitment. Really? Right. But I feel like if you meet the right person and you invite right away then that's if she can very well be a good friend, won't be taking energy from you. Correct? You bouncing off each other's energy,
trust your gut, right? Yeah. Trust your gut feeling. Um If you feel like if you vibe with the person then definitely, you know, meet them again. But if you don't, then you don't have to, you're not obliged to see anyone that you don't want to. Right. Right.
So, is it safe to say that all three of us don't agree with this sentence. It's hard to make new friends once you're in your late twenties,
new friends know. Yeah. Yeah, I disagree. Not at all. I don't think so. Yeah. And in fact, as you get older you are exposed to more social circles. Right. That's where you get to meet more new people and it's healthy, you know, to be meeting new people, especially like having a healthy social life, you get to learn more about different life experiences and you get to, I guess, interact with different people. Yeah, and help you, right? I can understand why some people find it hard. I'm
going to use this as an example. It's not the same thing but I'm sure you've heard someone say something like, ok, let's say someone is single, you've heard them say something like, oh it's a lot harder to date when you're older because where do you meet people? You know, you meet if you don't at work or you know, you only meet people at work, for example, and you don't want to date there, please don't date. Where
else do you meet people? No, but that comes with conditions for dating and the relationship to happen. The other party must be single but for friends, it doesn't come with such conditions. You can be attached and you can still be good friends with this person
the pool is bigger. Right. Yeah. Yeah. But, but it's just, especially if you're an adult who never goes out. Correct. You go to work, you go home on the weekends, you stay home. Where are you going to meet new friends? Where are you going to meet? You know what she's trying to say? And let's say it's mutual friends or friends of your friends, you probably already know them because the circle of friends is probably from like 5, 10 years and is not a big place, especially if you live here. It's a
problem that it's not a big place. Everyone knows everyone. Right. Yeah. But you, you know, you always have that one friend. I don't know if you guys have that, that one friend who seems to be friends with everyone or they breathe and they make friends. Yeah. They seem to have like 100 friends. Do you guys know of someone like that? Is it you?
I know, I feel like three of us know. Yeah, I feel like that's what my friends would picture or like paint a picture of, of me. Social butterfly. Yeah. But I really enjoy speaking to people. I think that's why we are all radio jokes, right? The US is as well. Like you go out with the, of the fingers, you're making friends already.
Absolutely. Um But when you think about who your close friends are, I think that circle is the most important. Um This speaker, his name is Jim Ron. He is British as well. And I don't think so. I think he is American. You are the average of the five people that you spend the most time with, the people that you spend the most time with, they actually shape who you are.
They determine the conversations that dominate your attention. And according to research, the people that you spend the most time with determine as much as 95% of your failure or success in life. So it's very important, not the quantity of friends you keep around you, but the quality of friends. I can't
agree more.
Wow, because you are what you feed your mind with. Exactly. So if you're constantly hanging out with people and just gossiping and negative nancy, like negative thoughts, you know, just always talking about nonsense, you're never gonna grow, they're not going to challenge you. Yeah.
And, and here's a tip for, uh, finding out if a person is going to be a bad friend the first time you meet. So, ok, there's a note from a producer here. What she's discovered is that people who review deep secrets about themselves when you guys first meet are almost always bad at being friends because they will always approach you and talk to you about their problems until they don't need you anymore.
Really? I know like that. Isn't it true? I know of people that trauma dump to other people within the first conversation. Right. When they barely know these other people. Yeah. It's like trauma dumping but it's more for, to their own, their own problems and then when they're done they, they will just trauma up to the next person they don't need you.
Yeah. And the fact that they can tell you so much on the very first meet up, what makes you think that they won't tell their secrets to somebody else? Exactly. Right.
That's true. So, that's a good, that's a good tip. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I think that's why, you know, making friends in adulthood can be tough because you have to think about all these. Yeah, I guess who is going to keep my secrets from me? Correct. And I think in adulthood as well, we are a little bit more guarded. You know, everybody has gone through heartaches, heart break ups, you know, friendship, breakups and everything. So, every time or with every heartbreak, the next one that
you do, you are a little bit more. Got it. Yeah. It's like when you're young. Right. It's like, what's your favorite color now? It's like, oh, you want to be friends? What kind of past trauma have you been through? And will I be able to deal with it? I went down on it. You know, the threshold gets so much higher. Everyone has busy schedules. Look at the three of us. We are still friends. When's the last time we sat down for a meal.
Literally just told us next time we come together to film Harsh Podcast. Let's have lunch before that. We
have to. Yeah, I know.
But you know what the point is? We have to record the Harsh podcast for us to come together to have lunch. Yes. You know, I,
so that was my birthday. That's not too bad. Two months, maybe that's pretty long. We used to have way more often
every time we film Harsh Podcast. Exactly.
So that the coffee shop people
shout out to them. They
call us the power. You also may be in different life stages. Like some of your friends might have kids, they have to dedicate more time to their family or their parents. You might not be able to see them as often. I think it all these factors come into play. Right? Let me tell you a story. So I know someone right, who is in his late thirties right now. Ok. Ok. So this pattern for him has started since 20 years ago. So this person is single, still is single. Um So at that time, let's say
he was 20 his friends are all 20. Then eventually they start getting the relationships, they start settling down, they start having kids. Ok. But he's still at that place. So he starts distancing himself from his friends because he feels like they are not at the same place anymore and that they don't have time for him, I can just keep getting
younger and younger. But that cycle just keeps repeating. Ah. Right. Ok. But for us it feels like actually we may have, like, suck for you, but it does not mean that we're not going to be dead for you. Like, why do you have to distance yourself away from us? Even though we are moving on with our lives.
Maybe his needs for friends are your needs for friends. Maybe he
requires a lot more quality time. Correct? Time spent together. Love language
is all commitment.
That's true. That's correct. So, and then we just keep watching the cycle happen and I don't think there's much that you can do right at the very most. You can just let him know that you always be there as a friend. But yeah, people have to do what they want to do. Yeah. And I think
your friend views making friends as an adult, very important for his personal well being. But do you guys agree is making friends important for your personal well being in growth? Because I have to say I'm not so sure about that. Actually,
I agree. I agree making friends, right. Making, making connections because I feel like when, when you only have a few close friends, right? You're in sort of like an echo chamber of what you are, right? I think. But when you make more connections, even if they disagree with you on certain things, you are learning more, like, like, for example, something simple, like, oh, I make friends with someone who is an engineer. I learn more,
more about engineering that I would have never known before. Right. Yeah. So
I think of this in a slightly different way. Um, as an adult sometimes I would really much rather go home after work and just sit down in my, whatever it is and watch a show, you know, that kind of alone time matters more to me now. But back when I was in my, maybe my teens, maybe hanging out with friends was priority for me. You know, it sort of shifts a little bit just because I go home,
I saw today, by the way. Ok. Friends. Yeah, Mala is a way for you to make friends in your twenties is a way to make friends, is the way to make friends for sure. Go out and enjoy food, go out and eat. But no, I, I think, and for what you're trying to say is that because you have a limited amount of time, would you rather spend that time outwardly externally? Right. With yourself. I think time with yourself and time with friends is both important. Correct? Yeah. But
for us in this industry it's a bit different because we spend most of our working hours talking to people. Right. This is not something that someone maybe who works in the office would experience. That's right after office hours. Just want to go out and spend time with their friends. But I can understand that. So, we've been speaking the whole damn day. What
do you, what is your take then on friends that you don't meet in person but friends that you only know online, I
don't have such friends
if you remember. Right. When we first got to know each other we were online friends. Yeah, we
made a Tik Tok video. That's how, yeah,
we were friends on, we couldn't even meet, we were making tiktok videos, separate them together. That's how our friendship started. That's right. You know what I mean? Yeah, I, I told them, yeah, it is possible. Maybe not, not so much for girls but for guys. So, so recently told me the story of how they have been friends for 10 years and, you know, one, there, in one there is in Malaysia.
They have been friends through online gaming to online gaming while they are because, you know, they can talk to each other, right? While they play the game, they will tell each other about like the deepest darkest parts. Like, oh, I broke up, you know, with my girlfriend, I'm so sad, you know, da, da da and confide in each other online while waiting for the game to start. Then when the game is starting, it's like fire in the hole, fire the hole. Yeah, bro. Yeah,
I broke up with my girlfriend today. I'm so sad.
What my take is on this is that these two guys should never meet the same concept. You should never speak to your idol. Yeah. So, when you see me, right, this magical aspect of the friendship will disappear then be
comfortable to just be able to see anything because you don't actually know that person physically, you know, maybe. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So, online friendships, you know, is another, another thing. Where is it really genuine or not? No, I have
to say though there's a level of genuine in that, like you can't say it's a fake friendship. But you know how I made one of my closest friends in life through radio. Like I can't do not. Ok. So there was a period of time where we had guest DJ S on board and then this listener, she is from Hong Kong. So she really, really loved um the, the local singer Derek who came on to be a guest DJ, even though it was just for eight weeks,
every single day for Derek. And after Derek left the station, she continued tuning in and she would drop in text to say hi to us. And that's how I got to know her. So one time I went to Hong Kong and I asked her if she has any recommendations, what should I eat? What should I do? She came to the airport to pick me up and bring me around. Ok. Not gonna lie. I was a bit afraid like she's going to kidnap me or something. Like you had never met her, I had never met her because she stays
in Hong. But after we met like we hit it off so well, she really respected my space, the privacy I needed. She gave me time to do whatever I needed. But when I need recommendation, she's always there for me and she brought me around Hong Kong herself personally. Yeah, she even brought me to see her place. That's so sweet. I really believe I made a true friend
there. Yeah, you never know. I think don't close yourself off to any kind of friendship. I think the key is to be open about it to be open to things happening, you know, and that's why I say like honestly like really, really honestly like I would choose to let life take me where it wants to because I don't know, I'm gonna have, you know, like what I'm gonna experience, right? Who I'm gonna meet. So for someone like I guess hazy, right?
Who I think is out of the three of us, you are the most extroverted and uh easiest to make friends with as
loud as a is I believe so. Yeah.
Yeah. What would your top tip be for making new friends? Like how do you make friends be
yourself? That's the first tip that comes, comes to my mind. OK? Because only have you heard of it saying your vibe attracts your tribe. Oh, yes. Yeah. So only if you are yourself, you can attract people who think like you and then like what Jeremy said, you know, you are the average of the five people you hang out most with. Yeah. So that's how
you keep growing. You keep learning to be yourself. So normally on the first meet up with the new people I know already whether we fight or if our frequencies are on par or not and if it isn't, then just stay as acquaintances. I don't see anything wrong with it.
I think it's always good to meet people and how close you get doesn't matter, you can't fall. Right. Right. You just let that take its natural course, but it's just good to always be open to meeting people and you never know like what is gonna happen in the future. You know, it's like me saying that all I want to be in life is to be a life fixer. Remember I want to be that person with someone for everything. Sure. Yeah.
So I may not be close friends with all of these people, but I know someone who is someone, you know, who can help someone. Yeah, I think um I'll come from the angle of people with a bit more social anxiety, right? Who find it very hard to go out there, put themselves out there as you would say. The fact of this life is people will always care more about themselves than they will about other people. This is a human condition, right? And because of that, you can use that to your advantage.
I'm not saying you can make close friends with this, but you can use this to make acquaintances when you meet someone for the first time. If you are not comfortable talking about yourself, don't ask them about themselves. What do you do? Like, how, how do you like your job, like or how, how's, how's everything, you know, and then really show interest in that, right? And start people off being comfortable in that way. I think that is really the best way to Yeah, you
don't have to talk about yourself. A lot of people have anxiety about that.
Correct. I have a friend who once told me that she would review every single conversation that she had in the day when she got back home at night. Yeah. She keep thinking, oh, should I have said this? Should I not have said this? Yeah. So I told her actually, you know, what people don't think about you as much as you think they do. That's true. They don't give two damns about what you say.
So just stop beating yourself up over it. But I understand sometimes, you know, we experience anxiousness, anxiety when we speak to other people. So have you things from this point of view. Actually, your parents can be your friends as well. Yeah,
that's true because your parents shouldn't be someone that you have, shouldn't someone you have social anxiety with, I mean,
they probably can be someone you can confide in. I've never experienced that because I'm just not willing to confide in my parents with certain stuff when it comes to relationship or work. Right. But when it comes to my friendships they, you know, they're cool. They are more than happy to listen to me. It's very nice when I confronted them about work or relationships, then they start nagging. So, oh, so
for some people, a small part of the population, their parents are some of their closest friends. It's true. It's true. Or you can be like me and be friends with your friend's parents. Oh,
it's always different when the kid is not yours.
Yeah. True. Because I asked the girl you want to take home to your mother.
So sure about
that. At the end of the day, I think it's also important to acknowledge that loneliness is a part of everyone's life. Correct? There are going to be some times when you feel a bit lonely. When you feel like, hey, why is nobody asking me out? You'd have to wait for someone to ask you out. Why don't you ask them? Right? If you feel like pursuing
common interest is actually a very good way to make new friends.
Yeah. Food is my top way of making friends,
right? Maybe gaming is for some people. So, like communicating virtually, like Tony mentioned a hobby if they do have
one, right? Surfing or, you know, cycling, running, swimming
to be something like that even causes, if you like self-improvement causes. Go take that damn course. And you find someone with similar. My side is yours.
Yeah. That's right. So, we hope you took something away from today's about, you know, friendships in adulthood and maybe girl friendships.
Yeah. Yeah. For the extroverts out there don't forget to include some of them were flowers. Some of the introverts you go out and meet new people, you never know what you can take away from them. And for the introverts don't be shy, don't be afraid to just take the first step and say hi to a new friend.
So cute. I think some people just take a lot longer to warm up. Some people just take a lot longer for them to show you a little bit more of themselves. Give it time as well to develop and it's wonders what a simple smile can do just, you know, anywhere you are like, even if you're not feeling so comfortable in your skin, just a nice smile, a warm smile that will attract a lot of genuine connection. I have a warm smile. This is my woman.
So we hope you definitely did smile after listening to this episode. And if you heard some like Julie, right? Just because there's some random renovation going on here.
Real life right
in any case, follow us on Instagram at its clav dot com. That's
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time. Bye bye.