Hi, Tao.
Hey, it's Aura and I'm Jermaine
and welcome back to another episode of Gravity. Hash. Now, if you're tuning into this episode and you find that you're the type of people who always say yes, when you more rather say no, this app is for you. Ok. In today's episode, we are diving deep into the art of people pleasing and why we often get stuck in this cycle.
I think it's something that afflicts a lot of us we brought on an expert today. This is a people pleaser life coach. She specializes in that, but not only that, she's also a certified sound healing practitioner. She is a relationship coach and an entrepreneur. Please welcome V thank you so much for having me here. Ok? I wouldn't call myself an expert, but yeah, I am running my own little company mainly doing sound healing and also coaching,
specializing in relationships and people pleasing behavior. So this company of mine, it's called Infinity because I believe that there are infinite ways to heal. And my name starts with V Yeah, it's just like that. I love that.
V for what I'm guessing, Vanessa. Yes,
Vanessa. Well, I love that. And you know, I've always been very intrigued by like chakra work spiritual healing and Reiki. So very interested to pick your mind today and also on how we can heal from being a people pleaser.
That's right. Yeah. And I feel like people pleasing is a trait that's very evident, especially in Asian cultures or Asian countries. I would call myself a people pleaser.
Yeah. So would
I
right. You just want to appease someone else like and in Asian culture, you're very polite, you just go out of your way to help someone else kind of thing.
I think you're taught from young to always like think about others feelings, what they may think and I think we carry that with us and it becomes these behaviors.
So v what is people pleasing to you? OK. So people pleasing is a behavioral tendency whereby we tend to put the needs, wants and of others over our own at the expense of our own mental wellness and our boundaries. So this is characterized by behavior such as over apologizing, oh my God, just me saying yes, just to maintain the peace, not expressing our true thoughts and just going along with what everybody wants. Basically, you tend to don't really have a sense of self.
I think that's a bit harsh to say like you don't have a sense of self. I sometimes feel like it's almost like you have a need to, you know, just want to make peace and sometimes you forget what you really want at the sake of appeasing others.
Exactly.
You tend to lose the sense of self that was once there. Yeah, that's true.
There's a range to this. Right. I mean, you know, it's not one size fits all
right. Not
so an example this year I was going through the renovation for my place and everything and I was constantly texting my ID. I did not realize that I was over apologizing like for every text I sent him, I'll be like, oh, I'm so sorry. Can you help me with this? Oh, I'm so sorry. Can you help me with that? And two weeks he was like, yes, yes. OK. OK. I'll do this. I'll do that and last but not
least stop saying sorry. So he actually he brought that up up to me and I was like, oh, I did not realize I was saying sorry, like with every text that I sent him, why do we do that?
Because I find myself doing that every time I ask for a favor or even if it's not a favor, right? It's something that the other person is supposed to be doing. I feel sorry for inconveniencing them. Why is that such a common thing? It's that lack of self worth. Actually, a lot of us are stuck in this thought whereby I feel like I'm worth a lot, like maybe deep down inside to a certain extent there is a bit of insecurity and that longing for external validation is actually pretty common.
Is it because we feel like we're being an inconvenience
to a certain extent? But there's no hard and fast rule. I'm really shocked, mortified. I am mortified. So you're saying that we over apologize because we feel like we're not enough to a certain extent deep down inside. It's something that we don't really think about subconscious. I mean, like in Singapore it's quite a fast paced lifestyle. How often do we just sit back and reflect on how it is that we are behaving? What is the, why behind why we do things, even the
apologizing part. Why do you always start, do you over apologize? Yes. In the past, I did this a lot, a lot. But when I started becoming a bit more conscious of like starting my sentences with sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Then I realize why am I sorry? I don't need to be sorry. I find this a lot in Asian cultures and especially with women. Like when I went to America every time I wanted to get past in the hour I'd be like, sorry, sorry. Excuse me?
They'd be like, you're fine just to apologize. I was like, oh, yeah, that's true. I don't have to apologize. Why am I saying? Sorry? I'm just trying to get past. Right. But it's almost like it's like a habit. It's come so naturally. Yeah. Yeah.
And then I think we're taught here as well that it's a polite thing to say and we don't actually realize that we're apologizing, you know, that way. You not as a sorry, like an apology. Exactly. Using it because it sounds polite and sometimes it even becomes like a conversation starter. Like, even in, let's say our radio DJ S life will be like, sorry, what time are we coming back on air? Yes. Sorry. What time are you playing this song? But why do we have to say sorry, sorry, ask you,
ah it's one of the ways to combat that to replace it with a different word like, excuse me or
like, hey, what time are we come back?
Hey, hey, hey, hey, yo, auntie, can you move out of the way that works too? Actually,
that works. But do you find like this people pleasing thing? It's more common in women than in men
actually to me? Yes, but it is not a gender thing. In fact, there are certain origins of people pleasing that are more catered to men. There's this thing called the f dead paradigm. So that one is more for guys having to fit in the roles of a father, the man of the house at an early stage. So that one not so much for women, but in general, in my coaching sessions, I like to talk about this thing called people pleasing styles. So there are quite a number but the one that I feel a lot of women
fall under would be this dissociative people pleasing. So what happens over here is that people are controlled by this idea of what they're supposed to be, this identity, a perceived identity, which could be the good girl, the girl who always keeps her mouth shut, the girl who loves to help around the house, the one that will be a good housewife in future, you know, and we are
stuck with that. And I mean, even in school, like for me, at least when I was younger, I still remember it was in kindergarten, I would see the boys are always the ones getting scolded. They're always running around, very happy making a lot of noise. And then the teachers would be like, look at the girls over there, they're so quiet. So we have been taught since young that that's the
good image to reward you for that behavior. I think this is very apt you know, on what Azura said that people pleasing is a spectrum and maybe a lower end of the spectrum are things like over apologizing. But at the higher end of the spectrum, it could shape your entire life because you want to please society or you want to fit into a mold and you go into something that you don't even like just to please
people please your parents please society. Yeah. So one of the origins and the origin of people pleasing is called the loading cycle. So in the loading cycle, you are lauded, you are praised for fitting into that norm that may not really be you, but you were taught since young that that's the way to be. That's how I should behave in order to get praised. I want to get praised. It's a nice feeling. Yeah. So we get stuck in that.
I'm traumatized. I know it sounds like a lot of like childhood trauma that shapes us to become like that.
I wouldn't call people pleasing a bad thing because there's good that comes out of it right now. I feel that. Ok, so I have a colleague. Shout out to Sheen. She's the nicest being ever like in chosen. So she's always there to help every single DJ, every single colleague. I wouldn't call her a people pleaser. But I do know for a fact that it's hard for her to say no. And sometimes I empathize with that. But as a result whenever she needs help from us,
as jocks, we would go all out to help her. So, you know, that's good that comes out of it. She is seen as a very nice person that we wouldn't want to hurt that all of us would want to go out of our way to help her be. So she's helped us first.
I think that's really great. But it also depends on the kind of environment like it's really great that you guys are the nice kind that will reciprocate her kindness. But imagine if someone was placed in an environment where everyone's like taking advantage of you, then she wouldn't feel the same in such a state. I think I faced, I had to confront this people pleasing tendency in myself. Probably sometime last year, I reached a point of like,
really bad burn out. And I realized that, you know, I was saying yes, too many things just to like almost like protect my place in the industry because everyone that invites you to something you kind of don't want to turn them down. You want to give them a bit of yourself. You want to give them a piece of your time to show them that they are important to you. And at the end of the day who suffers, it's me. I suffer. I'm miserable and that's not a way to live life.
Yeah. One thing I realized about Jim is she will say yes to a lot of media invites. That's good. It's a win win thing because then you get to update your social media content. But at the same time as a friend, I'm concerned for you as to whether you have time for yourself to just rest, to be your loved ones or not. That's a very valid point.
Yeah, I'm trying to reclaim some of that time for myself and just tell myself, hey, I deserve my own time too. Not just else. And what I'm left with is sitting with that guilt of not going to this or not saying yes or saying no, it's that guilt. That's like I feel bad, you know.
You know, I know someone who used to people please a lot. And then one day someone told her if your answer is not a fuck yes, then it's a no,
but most things are not.
That is so you have to be really absolute and sure. I think from then on, she sort of like stopped, you know, like spreading herself too thin and just really made sure that it was something she really wanted to do. I think a lot of us might not get to that point because to a certain extent, we still feel like we have obligations or, you know, we just work. It's
for this. Yeah, I mean, v you've seen a lot of people pleasers, you're a people pleaser, life coach. What, what is like, what are some of the worst cases you've seen? How has people pleasing affected their lives? The worst ones I would say is when they have panic attacks at work, they let it be such a huge part of their life that they can't stop it at work at home everywhere.
But it's especially at work when you, if you break down, you have a panic attack, you then become a bit more anxious and like, oh no, I need to fix this even more and you become even more of a people pleaser. And then because you are becoming more of a people pleaser, you end up
being more
anxious.
And another friend in industry was just telling me about this, that she knows someone who, it's just so nervous all the time that when they're just having a normal conversation like you and I, she would visually see hives breaking out on that person's face because she got so stressed over the work issue that they're talking about. So she does not know that this person is talking to. She doesn't know how to say no,
how to reject people. She takes everything in and like hives just break out on the face and that makes my friend so stressed because she said, oh, I don't know whether to continue this conversation or not or should I be working with someone else? But the person she's talking to really wants to maintain that working relationship. So all the more she will go all out to say yes.
Oh my God. I can actually empathize with that because actually I was one of those people who broke up in high school. Oh my goodness, guys. I know on your face. Yes. On my face. It will be only on my face and I don't know why I did not figure that out, but I know that I will feel some heat when I'm stressed and then yeah, the hives just come. I think that's a physiological thing. It's your body trying to protect you and get rid of the toxins and the negative feelings and it just comes
out as hives. But how do they take to go away? Maybe about 1 to 2 hours for me? Ok. We have some stories here actually from Reddit about people pleases and you know how they kind of like recovered from that. This one is from a user called additional guest. She says that my people pleasing tendencies made me stay too long in roles and jobs that treated me like crap because unfortunately
my self worth was tied to my job. I've canceled dates with my boyfriend and my friends to work and yet when I needed my shifts covered, no one would help me. I can everyone else's burdens. But when I needed support, I was left alone and my friendships were often very one sided. When I moved just 20 minutes away from my friends. People said that I was too far, but I've traveled much longer to see my friends. It was only after moving to a new state with no one checking in.
I realized that I was truly on my own. And now I've learned my worth in the workplace. I quit toxic jobs without feeling too sensitive. I set boundaries and I prioritize my health, I even set boundaries with a friend who's always in crisis mode, right? Someone who's always like I need you, I need you, I need you and sometimes, you know, you feel like you want to give everything to them. But this person has said now, I can say I don't have the bandwidth. Let's reschedule.
So I fill my own cup first before helping someone else. This is like on a plane, right? When they say like emergency landing, they always tell you save your own oxygen mask before you put on, even like your child put on your own first. I think this reminds me of that. I think this is a very real journey that many of us go through. It's really great that this person has managed to come out of that state knowing that that doesn't serve you that that kind
of life being treated that way. It is not ok. I I feel like we need to be familiar with our own boundaries, our own limits. Because if we've been people pleasing, we've probably been people pleasing for a really long time. It's not something that just happens overnight. So it's very easy for this to become an autopilot response. So you have to set that time aside and reflect, truly reflect on like the way that person treated me is that
really ok? And I genuinely ok with that. So we need to be in touch ourselves and then make a really firm decision on whether we want to continue being that way or not.
I think this reminds me of myself a little bit because I think I used to people, please a lot more than I do now. But I also am, I'm very 0 to 100. So it's a flip of a switch. Right. I used to never know how to leave anything. Like I've never left a job. I don't know how to leave a relationship, but at the same time I'll stick it out. And then when I'm done you did
it kind of like, it explodes in her mind. It goes boom and then she's like, yeah, pretty much. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then so sometimes it's like, I don't really find myself going out of my way to please someone, but I think it's also very 0 to 100. It's either I care or I don't. And it's like a
but you're able to make that switch immediately. Not really, I really problem. I think the problem is that sometimes you, it's not that you go out with your way to please people, but you just kind of stick it through even though it causes you anguish because you don't want to inconvenience someone or you don't want to disappoint someone and that's all also part of people pleasing.
Yeah. Like this next story here written by a guy online, he says oftentimes I end up giving up a girl. I had a crush on to friends who were more obsessed with them. Why? That's so sad, right? But anyway, he says this happened constantly when he was younger and he lost out on a few girls he really liked and felt a connection with. Looking back maybe it was for the best because he probably would have ruined those relationships as a
people pleaser. So he realizes that right. And he says he gets his people pleasing tendencies came from his childhood trauma being bullied and he doesn't like conflicts. So he tried to keep the peace by pleasing others and guess what? He's a victim of racism. Like growing up, I think he had to face this insecurity in his heart. That's why he constantly felt like he was not good enough for the girls he felt a connection with. Yeah.
So all the more you try to, you know, prove yourself right? I think it's almost like a defense mechanism at that point.
So this really reminds me of wicked the movie when alphabet is really like trying to fit in. That's true. OK. Anyways, so question to v what are some of the practical ways we can disrupt the pattern of people pleasing? So here are a few examples. Tell us how you would navigate around them. OK. OK. OK. So how to say no in a non guilty way.
Number one is the last minute work request. Your boss asked you to stay late to finish a project, but you've already got a personal commitment that you cannot reschedule. How do you turn out your boss while keeping it professional? So
the first thing I would ask is ok. So when is this due? Is there urgent deadline tomorrow morning, tomorrow morning? Ok. I'll get it done by tomorrow morning, but I will not be able to stay tonight as I have a personal commitment. I'll make sure it's done by then. I think it depends. Like was this really? It was a last minute request then it shouldn't have been a last minute request because
your life doesn't just revolve around your job. If you had given the employee ample time and the deadline is tomorrow morning and she hasn't finished it, I think your employees should be staying late because you've given them ample time. But if this is a last minute request, it's like my life revolves around your schedule. I would want to understand like, what is this project first? But once I find out about it and I have to check in my own capacity. Do I have the capacity to do that?
Because for me personally, if I have a commitment, I will still want to go for my personal commitment. Just that if this is really truly important and the circumstances around it are that really, this is something that only I can do by that point of time, then I'll just find a way to get that done to the best of my ability. But then I will not forego that thing that I was supposed to attend because that's my priority. Yeah, you really be very firm and, and you know, just like this is my time,
I have a question if you tend to phrase it in such a way, like, oh, how important or how urgent is it like asking the sort of questions to your boss instead of going straight to saying like, oh, I've got a commitment and I can't do it. But if you try and accommodate, does that make you a people pleaser?
I think it depends how you want to look at it. Actually, for me, it's I'm finding out facts so that I know whether it makes sense or not for me to complete it by then. So if he tells me the context and I recognize that this is something. Ok, I think I can get it done. Just not now. You just have to accept that. Not now, but I do need to know the information first and if it's really something that I can't handle, then I'll be like, sorry, I don't think I can do that today. Ok. How
about this one? Right. So all your friends want you to go out to a party, but you are really drained and you're really tired and you would rather stay at home. How do you kind of like decline this offer to go out without making it seem like you don't want to not be invited next time. You don't want to be like party pooper, you know, but you're just really, really tired today. So I'll just be quite straightforward with a OK, I'm gonna pass today, but
please go ahead and have fun. I'll see you guys at the next party. So put it in their mind, like invite me next time, see you.
OK? This next one, I think this is very sensitive, a friend who has a history of not paying back, asked to borrow a significant amount of money. You're uncomfortable lending it to him, but you don't want to hurt the friendship. What do you say
this
actually
happened to me before? Yeah. So what I told it was a girl, I told her that I'm actually not very comfort with lending out big sums of money. It's not against you personally. I'm just personally not very comfortable. But please let me know if there's any other thing that I can do to help and I'll see if I can help there.
Are you still?
Yeah.
Oh, I love that. I had a conversation with a couple of friends about this and one of my friends said, like when people ask to borrow money, he would just straight up say I don't like getting money involved in friendship. So I will not do it. And I was like, oh, but I think it also depends how big the sum is. Like, how was the sum that
20
20
2020
20 20 is a big sum? Did she have a legit reason? Like, did she tell you
she did, I asked about it and then she did say like some family stuff. How close of a friend? Is she your best friend? No, not a best friend, but just a friend. But even if it was your best friend, I don't think I would because I'm not comfortable and I mean, we are close enough so we should be able to be honest and candid about what
we really feel. Well, here's the thing, right. It's very hard for me to say no. Like for example, it can be anything, it can be a family gathering, it can be a work event, it can be a social event, right? And I don't want to go. Not because I have something else to do but just because I want that time to myself, I don't have anything else to do. And that's the part that really gets me because in my calendar it's empty. I could fill
it up but it, the way you need to. But how do I turn it down without saying like I just want to be by myself like I don't want to
but you say you have other work commitments just lie. Yeah, I do that all the time. Sorry. V
what do you think? OK, I think it's actually really common this approach honestly to just lie. OK? Say you're busy with something else but it's not exactly a lie. You are busy with something else which is yourself yourself. It's OK. It is something else. It's not nothing. Doing nothing is something, you know,
I agree. And I think sleeping and resting well is also part of our profession. I have to put this out there to all the people who are like, working overtime. I know I'm a workaholic myself, but 6 to 8 hours of sleep minimally every day. I think it's the impresses me. Honestly. I don't know how she gets the amount of sleep in.
That's true with the amount of things that she, she seems to be doing.
Like I didn't until two am she post and she's like happy because I got eight hours of sleep. I like, yeah, I was like, how well I had to cancel my gym appointment this morning. Never happened in the past two years because I was drinking till too late last night and I just didn't think I would show up for the podcast in a good state if I had gone for the gym appointment. So I put it off till next week and I decided to sleep in got seven hours of rest and here I am all energized.
I love that some. You lose some. Yeah,
I guess
so when you see your patients, do you call them patients, clients when you see your clients? Right? What would the remedy be like? What kind of action plan would you put them on to kind of like heal from being a people pleaser. Usually it's like I would encourage journaling. I typically leave an assignment at the end which involves reflection, diving deep to understand yourself. I would also recommend things like meditation even though it may not be a habit
for many people. But there's a lot of benefits that can come from meditation and like just go take a walk. Has been one of my assignments before walking in nature, just being with yourself at peace. How does that help with the people pleasing side of things? Because people pleaser tend to be quite on the anxious side because it makes them stress. I'm not able to please someone. What if I do this and then that's going to happen? What da da da da. So your
mind is very hectic. It's like a highway going on. So you do need to slow down. So as a first step, I would encourage you to do things that will help your mind slow down. Sound healing honestly is one of the ways as well because you're slowing the brain waves down. There's like calmness, a sense of calm that washes over you and you can get this in nature as well, but sound does it in a bit more like a layered manner. But you can for
more easily attainable things. It will be just journaling or going to a nice quiet spot hanging around in nature.
What are some questions people can ask themselves to, to take a step back and reflect
one of the things would be, what is my trigger? Can you have an example of that? The trigger be like for example, maybe the moment a boss says like you need to do this for me. So every time he hears, you need to do this for me, then he might get triggered and then he will be like, OK, now I need to everything and do that. So after that, it would be to ask yourself, what are you feeling? Why am I feeling that way? Is it true or is it just a belief that
I have? Right. So when you question your own beliefs, it will help in that regulation and you will know or you might know next time if you wanna switch a different route, like, do you really want to continue that autopilot thing? Right. Oh Boss tells me to do this and then I will go and do it right away or do you want to be like, that's not what I'm thinking right now. I'm actually feeling this is unfair. I'm actually really tired. I think someone else can do this today and you would tell your
boss that no. And then like manage it. But then of course, I mean, you might have some colleagues around you that are genuinely cool with you and then like, maybe can tell them like, ok, I'm really having a lot on my plate right now. Do you think you can help me with this? A lot of it is encouraging authenticity. But if you're honest with yourself, then you can be more honest with others as well. But what if nobody can help you? If nobody can help you, you have to talk to your boss,
you have to have that talk. I know it's scary. It's intimidating. But personally, like I've had to do that as well. I used to be a police officer actually. You many things now. Yeah. So it was very necessary for me at a certain point to manage his expectations and say sir, I'm struggling. Oh my God. Yeah, you have to I know like we need to keep up this certain image and I be like we're on the ball, we have to do this, we have to do it and we do, it's really, really important work.
But if you are not ok, the work is not gonna be ok either. And you need to spare a thought for yourself and the people involved. Very fair, very fair. And would you say you're a reformed people pleaser? Ok. So I want to clear by that there is actually no such thing as a reformed and ex people pleaser. You're either a recovering people pleaser or you were never a people pleaser at all because recovering because people pleasing is like an addiction. It's
like you're addicted to drugs. There's no cure for that. There's only ways to manage it and you just get better at managing over time. But there's always that risk of relapse. No,
I feel like I should count the number of times to say sorry every day from now on. I have a question. A lot of people pleasing comes from trying to take care of somebody else's feelings. How do you still do that without sacrificing yourself because you don't want someone else to feel bad as well. You know what I mean?
But sometimes you just have to feel bad. You need to know your own boundaries and your own limits. Actually, when you're truthful with what you're really ok with and what you're not, you'll be able to find some sort of a sweet spot. But there is give and take and that's why reflection is so important and quieting your mind and really thinking like sometimes you're moving so fast throughout the day, you're just doing things without realizing you're not ok with that. I hear you. So
as a recovering people, pleaser, how has setting boundaries? Like, how have you benefited from really working on that part of your life? I'm less drained actually, because I used to feel really drained at the end of the day. And sometimes I even build resentment towards the people that I've helped in certain way. Oh, my
gosh, all the time. Hey, ok. So let's drain.
So that's actually the key thing. Let's drain. And I think my relationships are more authentic right now, like with my friends and family and my partner. So we're just more honest with each other. When I'm more honest, they feel more comfortable being honest as well about the things that they might not actually be ok with, then everything feels more real.
Yeah, that's a good point. One thing I realized is that when you have so much on your plate and you take something else on, even if this something else is something that you're truly passionate about, you end up hating it because you can't perform to the best of ability. You are not able to enjoy it and
then you blame yourself. And then it's like,
oh
my
God. And then the thing doesn't turn out well and everything is just a mess. I have a very good friend. She says sorry, like every single time I see her, even if it like I asked her the friend, no, she's worse than me. I'm telling you. That's bad. Ok? Every time I ask her, ok? Are you free next Wednesday for dinner? Oh, no, so sorry, I cannot make it because I have to go for this that I, oh, it's OK. How about Friday? Oh no, so sorry, I can't do this. You also say sorry, what's wrong with that?
To me? I feel like you don't have to say sorry, just tell me you can't make it. And then we reschedule, right? Because I feel like saying sorry puts her in a, a more inferior position that I don't want to see her in because she's a very good friend of mine. Right. And she feels inferior. Why? Feel inferior? It's just a meeting, it's just a meet up for dinner. Right. Just reschedule. And at the same time I'm doing like this self
reflection of myself. Hey, am I doing that? Actually? To a certain extent.
Yes. Sometimes I reschedule so many times until I feel very bad. I've been trying to meet this friend, like since before she went on maternity leave, she just gave up today. I haven't met her and she was like, you want to come to the hospital? I was like, shit, I really cannot. And I'm like, I'm so sorry.
I feel
so
bad. Ok? Never mind 100 days party, go to her house. Maybe
I'll see her when the kid is like five years old at this point at some point though, at some point, at some point. But I, I really, really value today's conversation. It made me realize we say sorry a lot. Yes. But that's not the only thing that you know affects you when you have people pleasing tendencies. I think we're all recovering people pleases.
Yeah. For sure. Any last words you want to say to our listeners and viewers out there who are people pleases?
You are enough in your being, not in your doing but called human beings for a reason. You are enough just by being you.
Oh, thank you. I'm gonna tell everyone that from now on every time I do want to do something, we have no problem with that out of all of us. You have no problem with saying I just want to be and well, I learned so much from this episode. Thank you so much for being with us today. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to follow us on Instagram at its clarity.co. That's right. You can listen to us on Spotify Apple Podcast. Me. Listen, turn on your
notification. Don't feel sorry if you don't watch us on youtube. It's ok. We spent a long time setting up the set. I don't want to put in a lot of effort into it, but don't we see you guys? Hi.