Are women still afraid to make the first move?

the first move? Like you the one to initiate something with a guy in recent years? Yes, I like to do it. So, what do you do? I like to make the first move. I like to ask the guy out first. I like to initiate different things. Like what do you say? Play smooth la, play cool. And then would you want to hang? I mean something

as easy and simple as that innocent. I'm just kind of the innocent, innocent kind, not the but you would make that first move even if they, I haven't asked you, I don't see anything wrong with that. So like for example, us already right? When it comes to more serious conversations, for example, would you make the first move? Of course, when it comes to maybe hugs things more than their physical intimacy? I don't mind making the first move as well. What do you mean like you?

I love you first? Oh OK. This one? No. OK. OK. Have you said? Well, I think I like you. Yeah, for sure. I love you are three words that carry a lot of weight. Ok. I said I love you. I would never ask a guy out first, but I said I love you first. Really? In fact, it's a stretch. What I said was I think I might love you. Yeah, I think I might love you. I was also a bit drunk and then the next day I was like, did I say that to you? Hey, hey, hey, do we have

a very important conversation? I'm a firm believer that of drunk words and actions are sober. Thoughts fair enough. It's not 100% accurate. But I would say that's 70% truth. I would never ask a guy out on a date or to hang because I wouldn't want to seem over eager. Do you know what I mean? I don't want to seem like I'm coming on too strong as a girl. No, but I think that it also is a display

of affection, right? It shows the guy that, hey, you're interested then maybe next time he can make the first move or ask you out on the second day, right? I mean, it's like it's like a ping pong session. Honestly, for me, it was like if he wanted to, he would, then you want to wait until how long sometimes, right? You have to keep waiting and waiting. Then why not just save yourself the trouble? Because when you wait, you actually think about, oh when is he going to ask

me out? Is he ever going to, what is you just make the first move? Ask the question. I feel like there are two camps. There's one c that have you heard of guys say like they find it hard when women make the first move like they like it when women make the first move. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no on the street like just they find it sexy and confident. Yeah. OK. But then there's also another camp that believes that men inherently are supposed to be chasers

to lead to direct, correct. They are the ones with the masculine energy, right? They are chases, go get this and you need to allow them to be that. I am more of that. The second camp like you feel like men should be more proactive. But then again, the way that you act will attract the men that are in whichever camp there are, there's someone for everyone there sometimes unknowingly you project stuff and that's why you attract whatever pattern that you're attracting. But the

problem is I've heard when I was single. Not now in the short thing that I was single, nobody really dared to ask me out. I think I come off as intimidating to people. So no one really dared to ask me out. There was only really like one guy that dared to ask me out for coffee. Yes, for a coffee. And this was a guy that I met in the club, right? Obviously. And you would think, ok, just let's lay it out here. If you're trying to get someone in bed, you ask them,

do you want to go for a drink? Right? Do you want to go for dinner and then drinks? But he asked me out. He said I want to go for coffee in the day. I was like, I was like who I was a bit taken aback. The timing was not right at this time. My heart was already with someone else. So it didn't pan out. I didn't go for the coffee. That's what I'm saying. I think I would prefer a guy ask me out because then I can analyze what your intentions. If you

ask me for a drink, what do you want? OK. But if you ask me for a coffee, then maybe you just want to say friends, I have such a good impression. No. If you ask me out for a coffee, I don't think guys will have coffee. Just with a girl for any reason. Like, would you? Yeah, you wouldn't just ask for a coffee. Like, let's be friends. It's like a sign that you wanted to lead somewhere, but maybe he wanted to show you that he was a gentleman and not ask you out for

dinner and drinks on the first day. Right? Sorry. What have you seen videos? Tons of them. I've seen where girls are saying if they ask you out for coffee, don't do it because you're setting precedents that you can be casual. Like cheat with me like you want to take me out, take me out for dinner. Have you seen those video? No, and I don't believe in that coffee is expensive these days.

I mean, not like coffee the right. If you bring me to go eat like drink like coffee or maybe it's because if you wanna date or if you're interested in getting to know me, if there's an intention, then maybe they wanted to be more intentional. Hey, I'm a cafe date over a dinner date. Kind of girl, man. It's casual. It's not so serious, not so much pressure. It's chill. It's fun. Right. Yeah, but asking someone out on a date is one thing, right? I think we're

quite divided on that. I think that's fine. But then when it comes to chivalry, right? Paying on the first day we've talked about this. It's very different than asking out on a first date. Even if it's just coffee paying on a first date, does it always have to be the guy? Ok. I can definitely pay for my own coffee. But it would be nice if you offered to pay on the first day. Gentleman and on the second day, then I cheat you. If there is one, right?

If there's one, there's one. If I know that there's gonna be no second date, then I might offer to pay for the first one because I don't owe you anything like which friends don't come at us. We're all for equality in every everything. I was not that we're double standards or whatever it is. But again, I'd like to go back to, I think the feminine and masculine energy thing is very real and

I think it's very inbuilt in people. You can't change that. Hence, that's why it tells us something when you are prefer to pay on the first day. It's true. And this actually comes from years and years. I'm pretty sure in the 18th century somewhere, right? An English man would send a pigeon with a love letter. What will his name be? Edward? At a pigeon? The pigeon. We love my dear Julie yet. Ok. Yeah, you know, would you care to come on a date with me? You know, like that's the step

and then we were ingrained in us. My carriage shall be waiting for you at 8 p.m. Now you want to grab a and at the train station last cabin. So this is like in history, it's always been very patriarchal. It's always been like the man has to court the woman. Like have you guys seen? Yeah, you have to court the woman, you have to present yourself and all that. So it comes from there, right? Yes. Our PD actually said when it comes to

casual dating, I always make the first move. IP is a girl, but that's because I want to make sure the date aligns with my schedule and I don't like surprises. So I will plan ahead and also I will plan the escape route if I need it. Oh my God, it's like the, you call your girlfriend and you're like level 10 emergency then then the friend is like, ok, I'll call crying, put me on speaker. Yeah. So that's our PD making the first move. But the escape is dating me. I said you're not very interested.

Which PD is this? Oh, I see. Interesting. Do you think it's irritating when guys say like, oh, let's hang, would you rather them say I want to take you out? But then it becomes more serious if they say I want to take you out, right? Let's hang. I think it leaves more space for escape plans like you mentioned. Yeah, escape plans. But it's very like modern day thing that makes like, you know, chivalry dead. How would you get out of a date that you didn't want

to be in. No, I would get through it and never see him again. You would stay till the end. What is it like? So you out bail on a date halfway disappeared. I have barely been on the how to bail on the day. I would probably just go to the toilet and never come back and leave him hanging, but I'll pay for the bill, but then I'll never come back. But it is respect for me. Like, you know, I wouldn't want my date to do this or so at least tell me and then like, ok, sure, we can

end it there. We can just go home on our separate ways. True. Shall we do a quick little experiment? You think we should call some guys right now and find out whether they think which camp is it? Do they think it's hot that a girl asked them out first? Or would they rather be the one to let me call Avery? I knew it. I don't know what he's doing. He's probably at the gym or boxing or? Let's find out. Hi. What are you doing? Can I ask you something? We're

filming Hush Podcast now. Say hi, hi. Hello. Hi. Do you think it's hot when a girl asks you out on a first date or makes the first move? Yeah, of course.

first move. So that's where she's coming from. The success rate. I haven't been in touch with her in recent times. So she told this back when we're still studying together. So I don't know what it's like, I mean, that is when we try to take the lead in dating, I think it's nice to hear from a guy. It's nice to hear that, you know, it can be quite sexy. It can be quite attractive to actually make the first move when it

comes to our careers though. It's so different. It's even more so for me, here's what I heard from a lot of guys is that guys are revered for their societal status, for their financial gain. Women, traditionally, I'm not saying we're not review for anything else. But I'm saying historically, women are reviewed for their physical appearance and that makes it so much so that guys are very aggressive in their careers. But women who are very aggressive in their careers sometimes find it hard to

settle down. What do you think? I think when it comes to my career is even more so for me, in the sense that I'm even more proactive than when it comes to my dating life. Ok. I will always want to take the first move, take the first step, make projects happen for me because this is my career. It concerns me and nobody else. Yes. Well, I do agree with Jimmy that, you know, traditionally men is a

typical breadwinner. Women are known for their looks. But I think things are changing now, especially in Singapore where women, we have more of a say, we have gentle voices, louder discussions. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's changing and I like this change. But do you think that compared to your male count parts? Right? In the same job, same roles, do you feel like you have to work harder or do you feel that you're treated differently? No, not at all. At least in my company in where I work at, we

are all treated very equally. And in fact, I feel like sometimes women, we have an additional advantage over men. Yeah, and extra edge of men, don't you feel? So maybe it's because we are in this industry, the media industry and sometimes we have to do up and stuff like that. We get to try different styles. We get to represent ourselves in many more ways than men can. I think we're very fortunate because I also feel like I haven't felt that

difference in the workplace. Right? Yeah. No such discrimination. I feel not so much in our workplace, correct industry. So was there a moment when you guys felt the urge to make a strong career decision despite your fears? Ok. For me, it was back when I was 22 2016. At the time I joined the radio competition. Honestly, I never knew where it was going to bring me. I don't even know like if the amount of money I was going to make every month is gonna help me.

Can I save, will I be able to grow some savings and give my parents money, stuff like that. But I still went ahead because I felt like women, we should chase after our dreams, which is women are men as well. It's never been about gender for me. It's always been about myself. Like what Hazy said, right? It's building a career for yourself. I don't think most Singaporean women have like the sense of, oh, you know, I don't want

to be too career focused because it's not sexy. You know, I want to just focus on being a domesticated goddess. I learn how to cook and plant a garden, things like that. But I don't think we have that mindset, right? But some people still do. Correct. I'm known of people, right? That if given a choice between going to try and succeed in your own career or choosing to have kids and be a trophy wife, they will choose to have kids and be a trophy wife.

But nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong. Nothing at all. You just want that extra time with your Children, which we totally respect. Right? 100%. Ok. Here's something that I've heard and it really made me feel like, wow, you know, maybe it's so great and we're so fortunate that we're in a time like this. So basically I was walking out of a relationship. I had spoken to a family member of the other party. Ok?

She looks at me, she says, I understand what you mean because this person that I'm married to is the same. But I'm not like you, I'm dependent on him in what ways monetarily just, you know, take it back 30 years ago where the woman is a homemaker dependent on her husband. And when she said that it hit me that some people back then did not have the option of a now when they were unhappy and we have that option of it out because we, first of all

are brave enough to make these decisions for ourselves. And secondly, because we can provide for ourselves financially, imagine being in that position where you want and now, but you've been reliant on another person, you don't have one because traditionally, at that time, the man was the breadwinner of the family, right? The women never got the chance to go and make a career from themselves. And

what are you going to do at that age? Like it's easier to just stay in that situation than to leave and try and make a life for yourself again. It sometimes it's too late at that stage. I mean, I don't think any of us here think men should be the same breadwinner of the family. Not at all. Most families can't even survive on a single income because the cost of

living in Singapore is too high. So I think that has really shaped a lot of women's mindsets into thinking it has to be a double income household, even with kids, a family. It doesn't matter. But isn't it great to, what do you call it? Bake your own bread, make your own money or you are able to provide for yourself without being dependent on the amount of money that your husband is going to give you every month. I

think it's a very empowering feeling. Definitely. And I think so thing that haunts me or something that I'll never be able to do is to ask someone for permission when I want to spend money. Yes. Or when I want to buy something because that money is not mine. It drives me insane like that thought of it. So I don't know how to do it. I understand. Yeah. I think it is very empowering to have your own money. I think for me it was a bit a twisted

situation for many years. I wouldn't say a breadwinner. I don't have a family, right. But I was the more financially capable one for many years and I still am. But now I'm understanding a bit more of the feminine side of it, of like taking a back seat, letting someone else plan the day, letting someone else plan the holiday, letting someone else buy you a gift for once, right? Like it used to be always me. Like if it was my birthday, I will buy myself a cake, I'll

plan it. And then this year my boyfriend actually said to me, no, I'm gonna, I'll arrange everything. I'll plan everything out, it's just nice to be taken care of. Sometimes I never had that, you know, in this way for many years. So it's just nice to be a soft feminine girl for what she's in her era, not so masculine. But yeah, I do think that especially in a workplace, right, with women and men is very different when you come out as assertive. Like when you

assert like I want this right? Or you're in a meeting and you say I really, really believe in this. I strongly believe in this. I think a lot of times women are seen as emotional creatures, men are seen as logical creatures. It makes things very complicated in the workplace. They will just think she's just pmsing. So do you guys feel that because women are seen as emotional creatures? Right? You try to be less emotional

so that you're taken more seriously at work? No, I feel like this is interesting because especially in our industry, it helps that we're emotional. No, seriously. I feel like emotions help us become creative. Oh, yes, it's true. Right? But if let's say I'm feeling something and I'm trying to get a point across, I do have the thought that oh, I don't want someone to be able to say that she's acting based on emotions or she's just being emotional. She's just saying that

because she's being emotional. So I give myself the time to write those feelings out first and then it feels like I need to be logical. I need to make sure whatever I say is gonna sound like it's coming

from logic and not emotions. I'm the same way. I literally like before I go into any big conversation, I have to take check on my emotions first, I write down all the logical points I want to hit and I memorize them just because I don't wanna, when I get emotional, it does affect the quality of the point. I'm trying to put across. I've also heard people like, feel the need to say my female boss. You don't say your male boss? That's true. You've heard that

right? You've heard people say like, oh, I've got a female boss. It's like implying something, you know, I have few bosses. I love them. Oh, yes, yes. Actually watching this, most of our bosses, all females in an entertainment industry, we have a lot of female colleagues. Bosses is very natural. I find that female bosses are a lot more pathetic. I like a female boss. But here's the thing, right? I feel like at the workplace when it's a work setting,

maybe it's just me correct me if I'm wrong. But maybe women feel braver to be bolder at work to make first moves at work because there's less to lose. You know what I mean? It's a workplace. I asked for it if I get, I get, I don't, I don't, I'm happy. I say it if I'm in a position where I'm leading people where I'm leading a team, for example, I set the rules, I set the boundaries, I lead, right basically. But I think maybe women get a little bit more

afraid when it's like matters of the heart. When your heart is on the line, you're a bit more afraid to put it out there because emotional, but at the workplace, your heart is not exactly on the line. You know, whether people think you're a bitch or not. And sometimes we don't really care like you think I'm a bitch, I'm a bitch like work is getting done. So maybe because of that they are a little bit braver to

make fast moves that were as a society, right? I think we can kind of watch a bit more of the vocal that we use in the workplace to describe women and men. Like for example, if a woman or a man, you know, says something very controversial during a meeting, people would describe the woman as she's so bossy, she's so like naggy. But they would describe the man as, oh, maybe he's coming on strong. It's a strong point like the vocabulary in the words that you use. The language also does

perpetuate these stereotypes again and again, correct. But you know what of recent times, I think there's a tool that really, really helped women feel more powerful and that's social media, don't you think we have had guests on a harsh podcast before Rachel from Love Bonito, Naomi Neil, OG blogger. I do feel like they have made such strong impacts via social media. This in turn makes them more confident and

feel better about themselves. So that's what I'm saying. There's a community out there that is for you, no matter what kind of lives you're leading at home or in the office, we just have to shed that idea of like, feminine means. You have to be more passive, more submissive. I think the roles of feminine and masculine, not just in terms of personality, but in terms of like dressing in terms of all that, you know, I love it when a guy has nail polish on. Yeah,

I think, I think it's cute. Yeah. And these are like straight men. They're not even, you know, bi or gay or anything, but I love it. Yeah. When they bend stereotypes, stereotypes are meant to be broken. I fully agree. Just like rules. No, not the law, not the law. Rules. Rules. I actually have a friend many, many years ago and I would say, wow, this is more than 10 years ago. She proposed to her husband, what she got down on one knee. She did, they were on a road trip. He was driving, she

pulled out a ring and said marry me. And it's like 10 years ago. Nice. I mean, as much as I enjoy listening to such stories, I think. It's hard to picture myself in this situation. I would still want my other half to propose to me. Yeah. You know, it's just gonna happen once in a lifetime. So I just want to enjoy it. So, in a sense, it's still a bit traditional some ways I think. So. I feel like I'm

very proactive when it comes to work. I've been so independent when it comes to my career that I don't want to be independent when it comes to my relationship anymore. I just want someone to rely on. Of course, I don't mind paying for meals. I mean, we should take turns but it's only right. I don't mind asking him out on dates and stuff like that, planning stuff. I think it's great. But when it comes to the bigger events of our lives, I feel like it would be nice if he takes the lead.

Have you also heard about people say like women who have careers and whole powerful positions that work, they tend to want to take a back seat at home because they spent the entire day taking care of everything they just want to be taken care of. Yeah. So I feel like if this is unfair to the men because they have also had a hard day at work, right? Everyone deserves to be taken care of to be treated like a baby sometimes. Absolutely. It's a two way street. It's a human thing at

the end of the day, right? I think femininity has evolved so much, right? It used to be like, oh, if you're submissive or passive, that's feminine. Now it's like confidence is femininity. So how do you guys express your feminine sights? How about we address this question for each other? OK. I feel like for Zora, well, I've struggled but carry on. I think the struggle is past you. I think for you, you display your confidence with your dressing your fashion. I

was right. Her style your hair like you break conventional norms, break by the way, every day she break the norms and hair also. That's what you are. Ok. Now for Jimmy, not very feminine is you are very confidence in yourself. Like she is just confidence in one package but we are all confident. You guys are confident too. It shines through. No, I think something that I really admire about you is that you can let go and you can allow someone to take

the front seat, the driver seat. It's very hard for some people. I struggled that for a long time. So I would see it right. And I was like, actually why cannot, I mean, I think it takes the right situation and or the right person to bring that out of, you know, I'm so sorry. Yeah. OK. Hazy. OK. Come but he is the epitome of femininity, you know. Really? Yeah. As in your masculine when it comes to like when you take care of yourself. You're very masculine in

a sense. Right? You're like, no means, no, health means health. Fitness means fitness. But in every way else you're just so feminine like you are soft. You know, the way that you move, the way that you talk, the way that you walk is so feminine. She's gentle. She takes care of people. She's like baby girl. Exactly. We are not gentle. We are not my goodness, gentle. She really is guys. I got new bruises every day. No, sorry, that's a side track, right? But just for shits and giggles

because Hazy mentioned about clothes, right? So actually just yesterday I saw a meme, I found it very funny. So I think, I mean, so I sent it to my friend. Basically it says who the fuck raised me to believe that I need a new outfit for every event. Ok? My friend replied and said you have outfits for events that you're not even going for. That's true. That's very true. Actually, she has shoes that she's never even worn. You don't, I actually don't. I do. Ok?

I better shut up. Yeah, I mean, redefining femininity is on your own terms. It's not like a playbook you have to follow. It's not like I have to be this or that you can be feminine in any own way, even as a guy, right? You can let your feminine side show a softer side show where you need a bit of taken care of like where you are a bit more emotional. It's ok, girl, appreciate it. Ok. Go actually appreciate that like, oh you also want me to say on you. It's cute.

Just want to communicate. My guys are so different in front of their friends and in front of you, they're so different, so adorable. It's like two different people. You are right. We asked to come out. It's true like in front of their friends, they're like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Strong, strong then with you, they're like, I'm a baby. Yeah. And then like the way they speak suddenly the pictures get higher. It's, and I think everybody can agree. Guys are the biggest

babies when they're sick. No, they are, they are, they need the most TLC and love and care like that. So they've had a bad day. We like that. I'm just saying we like that just as much as guys appreciate the masculine side of girls. Girls can also appreciate the feminine side of guys. Exactly. So it's ok to be soft at times and cute. Like I can show you a teddy bear heart. So nice. Correct.

I will be the big spoon. So question right in a guy that they do or a quality in them or whatever it is that gets you see me in a bad way. No, no, no, no. In a good way. Like something that just gets you get in the link for me. It's easy. The first thing I look out for in a guy is how discipline or driven is. I've always been saying this but this why she's wholesome, you understand? But this quality in the guy has never changed. For me. It is a must have in all the

guys that date. But what if, because he has that quality, he prioritizes work over you. She was, but she will probably prioritize work over a don't like that. No, I don't think so. She balances very well. Actually, I actually like to achieve a balance between love and work. It's all about learning about each other and compromising you can't expect at the start. Everything is perfect but you slowly start to work towards, yeah, I used to have

a relationship. This guy, he's very driven, very disciplined, but he just placed more emphasis on work and less emphasis on me. And eventually we just didn't work out because no time, no attention span. How do you make a relationship work? Right. So that's for me, discipline driven for me. It's being a gentleman. Most of the guys I dated have been, that's why I look out for opening of a door. Yes, she fell in love in school when the guy held the door open. I did. Ok?

He held the door open and I was like, what a gentleman I love you holding the door open or even just holding my bags, offering to help me offering to pick up something from, it was just taking, you know, just being a man picking up shopping bags is so cute. Like some men,

I find that, hey, you don't treat me as a slave. No, I really have a male friend think that like, he does not like to hold bags for his girlfriend because he feels like he's being treated like a slave that too baffles me to this. But I wouldn't ask though, I wouldn't say like, can you hold this for me? I wouldn't really be like, can you help me? Yeah, but usually you know, they offer like, can I hold that for you? Then I'll be like, no, it's ok and then he would just

grab it from me. That is sexy. Yeah. Yeah. What about you? What traits in gets you weak in the knees? I can hard attention to detail like small things. This is very minute things right that I feel like people always overlook that shows like thoughtfulness that gets me like let's say I show you something on my phone and then you just see like my battery loading, you just charge it. That's like that or like let's say I'm doing my makeup

of the car. It's a traffic light. I mean, we're all professionals and doing makeup and then you move off and you're like, oh sorry, I forgot to tell you that we're moving off. I'm actually fine, but thank you for the thought. The fact that. You said that? Yes, because people overlook these things all the time. So, who's car? Are you doing makeup in? Did you ever say that, Jimmy? No, I never ever said that if I drive off your eyeliner will be here.

Sorry, I don't do eyeliner and browse in the car. You know what? I think we went off of it, but this is a fun conversation. I think it was cute. Hopefully any guys listening to this show a bit more of your feminine side, your cute side and to girls it's OK to make the first move. Don't be afraid. Sometimes it gets you where you want to be. Wow, you miss 100% of the shots that you don't take, that you want something, you go for it because if you don't try, the answer will always be

no motivation. Also recently a male friend told me he has this theory. We found it extremely insane. Somebody out there please go and try. Ok. Basically he says, right, let's say you are a restaurant, you are above your friends, whatever it is, wherever you are, cafe, whatever you see a guy across the room that you like. He says it works 100% of the time. Ok? OK. My friends say what doesn't work. Don't look for me. Understand. So he says you make eye contact with this

and so I had somebody hair tie. So here you go. I have a tiny one does this work? Can I try my best? Ok. He says that this will work 100% of the time you're across the room. Ok. Ok. Ok. The guy is there. Yes, you've been looking at each other, you know, he's interested, you are interested. You want him to come over? He says that this will make him come over. You look straight, you cannot break eye contact.

That's the trick. Ok? And first of all, you must bite your own and you cannot react on that or die of her. That's hard. And apparently at some point, I don't know how long he will come over. But if you never come, I keep dying, you take out and then you try again, you take it out and you tie it again. I don't know, I never try. We put this to the test. Can somebody try please and let us know what do you guys try it? Say success? 100% like oh my God. OK. Try it. And if it works, OK, drop us ad

M on Instagram. OK? Yeah, our handle is at a cavity.co, correct? And you can listen to us on me. Listen Apple Podcast, Spotify. Don't forget to turn on the notifications. And if you want to watch a zero tie her hair, make sure you watch us on youtube. Honestly, that made me feel something. It was not sexy enough. Should I do it again? It was quite sex. I have to say it was hi.