Welcome to the episode of Husbands Watching Housewives. I'm Scott. And I'm Jeff. And we just watched a fucking crazy episode of The Real Housewives of Orange County. It was very confusing. It's very confusing. We're already swearing this is E for explicit Hide your children. That's your. Children. They should not be listening to this so. Yeah, I didn't think it was going to go this way. I'm very confused by this addendum. Yeah, you know.
Like I thought I thought we were going to have a moment of like well no shit. Gretchen's conservative and supports anti LGBTQ stuff, which I still think is true. I'd I'm going to say like, let's. Not it's a strong possibility. I'm going to say like, it's, I like, again, I don't think that this distraction, I feel like what they're offering us is a distraction as if, as if we were supposed to say maybe this wasn't true.
I think the way that she responded in the way that she did not immediately defend herself is that she knew she was caught. What I'm really concerned about in the very long run is why production through Tamra under the bus the way that they did. And reversed, yeah, drove back over like it was a they really were just this, this like voice. I mean the disguise, his voice was he disguising his voiceless person who had all the receipts, right. It was just so it's. Eddie.
It's Slade with like the Scream voice decoder. Yeah, no, that, that's the weird thing. Is it like, I don't think that any of this is far fetched. The fact that they're trying to make it and, and I mean, hats off to Emily. If if if they say that Emily is as serve as she is for her to like be taking the side that she's taking like hats off to all of them to be shocked that
Gretchen would feel this way. The thing is, they didn't go deep into why this could possibly be true because they don't talk about politics and how. I mean, maybe there's more to that conversation. You know, they're always there for so much longer than than what's shown. But it's it's worth making the point of let's say this is all fake. These are doctored screenshots, chat, chat, PGPT, whatever AI made these like hateful posts that she supposedly liked.
It's not far fetched based on the fact that we know Gretchen is very conservative and preaches that. And so I it's not out of the realm of possibility for me to believe like she would like things like that. That's why it's easy to believe, right? It's just interesting how they all were like, well, wait, maybe it's not like I don't know why I I wish that someone had said like you're you're MAGA. Let's just say the word like, like not avoid trying to avoid. You know this is your.
Political, I mean, I will, I will say in general, like I'm pretty sure MAGA means to different people different things that it means to us. So maybe we should not use that. But she's conservative, and she believes in a traditional Christian. She supports a movement that is very likely to not support the LGBTQ plus community, right period. So if you're saying to me, Gretchen, like these, these posts that are anti all of this, I could believe it because that's who she supports.
You can't just say I'm voting fiscally. I'm voting, you know, like for like. I want lower egg prices. You know and not and not realize, but you're supporting people who hate other people who are very hateful rhetoric. But also the same. I'm not saying she's supporting, you know, very like hardcore anti, you know, like bored. I would say the words but.
But at the same time, like in in my head, I'm kind of like, OK, she has to like, it's not beyond, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that if she's trying to Curry favor with a certain type of person that she would like those things. If she's trying to impress people who are anti LGBTQ, I can see her saying and liking and trying to appear that way. The same way that now that she's on a pretty liberal television show, one that at least tries to remain liberal and appeal to all
the different, you know? That remains liberal. I think it rings very neutral. They don't talk about politics. I mean, closest thing that we got to that was during the 2016 election on New York, when Carol, yeah, storyline that she was very pro Hillary. So I mean, so Bravo's not without its own problems, I'm not saying that, but. I think Bravo doesn't talk about this. But Bravo, whether like it or not, Bravo has a very large
LGBTQ. Yeah, but I think demographic and not no pun intended what Trump's that are the white middle-aged women right very well very well fall into this camp yeah who support OK bravo. So you can look at the online community, people who are making all these Tik Toks, these very these podcasts, yeah, these funny, like, you know, very bold gay men, people, you know, even behind the scenes as producers of podcasts or like who basically people who are putting
out content. What you see online doesn't necessarily reflect what you people who are actually watching the show, just as the people who are very hateful online and I'm talking to hateful, not like about, you know, LGBT whatever, basically saying like I hate this housewife. You know, keyboard warriors don't necessarily reflect what people think in, you know, other parts of the country. Like yeah, no Internet. Right. Oh no, I I get what you're saying.
So, you know, I, I don't think Bravo is very liberal. I think they're very. They're walking the line. They're walking the lines. They don't want to alienate people. Once in a while, Andy will, you know, very much of voice his opinions because of course he's going to. He's a gay man. You know he's going to say call out certain people. But on what happens live, but it's just you're not going to
really see that. Yeah, seeing Heather support the Trevor Project, of course, it's definitely a statement, but it's a very small segment. It's a very short segment and. Yeah, and doesn't get as much airtime. Yeah, you're right. Absolutely. Right there was, yeah. Yeah, so I mean, I'm again, but still you'd expect like Bravo historically has tried to like walk both sides of the fence like more than Karen does.
So like it just seems really strange that there would be this element that's like you could easily. It's just so weird because like, I don't want to, I don't want to in my heart support Gretchen, any of this, because it does seem like she liked I, I do believe in my heart that she
supports anti LGBTQ sentiments. And if she like as a human, I, I can, if I were to believe anything that she that we were shown on this episode, like maybe she doesn't wholly believe these things, but she supports those that do and she's not yet reconciled what that means. That's not my problem though, you know, like at this. Yeah, also, it's very easy for her to do this because she is a, a white cisgender woman woman,
right, in Orange County, right. She's not walking in the shoes of people who have to face hardships. And it's one thing to be like, I had a drag bronze. She had a drag Tupperware party at my house and like, I went to the Abbey and I've done events, you know, with gays and like my hair stylist and some of my best friends, you know, whatever, whatever. But it's quite another to like be Heather and have children, three children who are members of that community. You know, that it's more
meaningful. Like you are walking the walk. This means something to you. You support your children. You support these issues. It's not just like, oh, my hair stylist is gay. Well, you know. Yeah. Like, to me, everything that Gretchen was saying to try to defend herself, which wasn't much initially, was very much like that whole idea of what is it called when you're the model minority that like, oh, some of my best friends are gay. It's like, OK, that's fine.
You're OK with the people that don't offend you. Oh. You mean she's she's talking about people who are the model minority, right? Like the harmless drag queen, right? Gay hairstylist, right? But the activist who's acting like Dylan Mulvaney, right? Asking for, you know. Actual equality like. In my rights and like Knox be harmed because of being a trans person, that's where you supporting that person. Right. I think that's where she's saying, no, I don't support that
thing. So it's like when they're just like they're not bothering my lifestyle, they're fine. Like they aren't in cringing on impinging on me being, you know, a white woman, you know? Whatever. I can use the words today. I can use pronouns too, yeah. Exactly. I'm a girly girl, yeah. I can I can see that where I where I'm really, I don't know where I'm really starting to. I don't like I I the way they edited this whole thing. It just feels really dirty.
Like I don't it's also I don't, I don't believe Tamara would be this calculating, but at the same time I don't feel like they could pull it out of thin fucking air. Yeah, there's got to be. And I really hope that Tamra didn't do anything to like make this worse. So the whole idea like should. We start from the beginning. We we we're no hope for doing that I'd. Like to go through. Let's get there in a moment
before I forget where I'm going. I feel like the whole idea that they said that Tamra may have created accounts that made this happen, like that's kind of what I got out of it. They were saying like Tamara was behind some of these accounts that made a little Gretchen was saying this would suggest that Tamara was like creating fake Gretchen accounts to have this year a year before like anti LGBT. It just seems so over the top weird. It's a lot of work too. Which I don't think that Tamara
1 is that Hardy with her. Work she didn't even know. Gretchen was coming back. To the show, it didn't. That's the thing. Like Tamara doesn't think about Gretchen like this. I hope she doesn't. Gretchen thinks about Tamara like this. So there again, I wouldn't last week, I would not have thought this, but the fact that like Bravo's putting this forward, like there's a lot on their part that's like Tamara is a commodity of theirs to an extent.
Yes. And so the fact that they're like putting it out there that Tamara would like go to the lengths to create fake accounts to make it look like Gretchen was. It wasn't even. I mean, that's part of it. That's when they get it in their reunion clip. The main thing at the end. Well, let's yeah, we'll go end then we'll back to the head be full circle. The main thing from that little add on scene, which I don't like doing that.
I don't. It was, you know, last year when they did that, it was, you know, more innocuous. They're like we're sisters were thinking whatever it was to drop some like bomb at the end about. Yeah. But it's weak, I think, in storytelling turn. Yeah, that you have to like it's, it's obviously produced. It's just like, let's get these three together. And someone reached out to Gina and said Tamara's leaking stuff, I can prove it. They call the person and they go
give me some examples. And he goes boom, boom, boom. Like 6 examples of stuff that wouldn't have been known because it hadn't aired yet. So this is more so about like they're saying Tamara's leaking information to bloggers, to fan pages, whatever. I don't recall these things coming out. I'd also not looking for them deeply. Like I'm not looking for spoilers right about Housewives, but it feels like this would be more all over the place. Yeah, yeah.
It's just so that whole thing seemed and they are just so quick to be like, of course. And then especially when he said, you know, that Tamara was hatching a plan with Gina. Gina's like, oh, no, not me. Like don't bring me into this. And I don't know, it was just so weird to have all this evidence against Tamara from this mystery voice who could be anybody. He could be on Gretchen's payroll.
He could be a part of, I don't know, like, why are we giving this air time of hearing somebody saying things? I guess because it proves that they know things that only production and people involved. Would know and the timing of it all like that's I think that was my one take away from that whole like epilogue was that before anything aired there were stories out there that were like detailing things that had happened before anyone should have known about them.
So the idea of Gretchen coming after her, where she walks off and Eddie gives the finger, you know, that whole thing, like that whole moment was he would. That's what that was suggesting is that before anyone knew that happened, that was already being put out there into the universe in a time where like it would be irrelevant. But I don't know really what that. There was there like were there posts about all this? That's what I want to see. You can say like what was this information?
This person was saying this information that they knew. This person, Kiki Monique. Will be her Bravo con with Tamara on it. This person knows all this information but what were they doing with it aside from proving that they knew all the information? And why was production again giving air time to this person?
Unless it basically it's just to try to prove a point that Tamra was leaking this information because then you had all three women, Jen, Gina and and Shanna and basically saying like, well, how could she do this? This is our show and. And that's where I just don't understand, like, what that behooves production to do. True. Yeah. Like, unless they're just really, unless they have something really amazing planned for Season 20, which probably they do, but like, I don't.
It's just it's really confusing overall. I'm very confused about what's the point of it and you're the timing of it. Like the fact that this thing was done to Gretchen and then all of a sudden this person is like, I know all these things. I mean, if someone I don't know if you can have, you can have like so many conspiracy theories and go down a rabbit hole, but who knew what and who told who when and how is Gretchen involved and how is Tamara
involved? But I think the overall point is it's so messed up and confusing and it's bringing things off camera on camera, and that's what it is. When you bring things that happen off camera on camera, it doesn't translate and it gets very confusing for the audience and I it's not, it's not good TV. And you're right, I think on top of that, like what does the show gain from this? They get at most a week's worth of us and people like us and controversies.
We're. Talking about and at the end of the day, it's not going to go anywhere. We're going to get next week's reunion. They probably won't talk about that. Then they'll probably save that for the third episode. So they probably get 4 weeks of. Like in the trailer, it was brought up, you know, like I think it gets a brought up pretty soon because we see OK them watching the scene of, you know, the three talking to this. I don't know. We, we could be, we could be getting fed aligned.
That could be the third week of the reunion. That's true. We'll never know. We hear like Gretchen saying like it's so fucked up for you to do this, Tamrod. I don't know. And it's just it's a BLOB. And it makes me when people say this isn't a good season. I think it was a good season that this was not a good finale for me because it's just such a mess. And it doesn't it's not just because, you know, there's the person I like the most is being
thrown on the bus. I, it's, it's because I, it makes my brain hurt trying to figure out what's going on. You've lost me as a viewer because you brought in all this, all this outside stuff. It's become too much about what's happening off the show than what's happening on the show, which, which means there's not enough happening on the show That's interesting to make a show. So you need to go to bloggers and mystery people to try to make something happen. And that is when you have fucked
yourself. I I didn't. Yeah, no. Need to like, like, and what's happening is that this is this is happening because you have two people who are trying to destroy one another and it's hurting the show. And I think you just can't go on that way. So I mean, I, you're, I agree with you 100% where I'm confused, and I'm not trying to be devil's advocate here. Like Gretchen has historically displayed very conservative values.
So unless they're all just lying out their asses, the fact that Heather herself was like this doesn't sound like Gretchen. Like there's an element to me that's like, OK, maybe she's not like that, but is the really is the real truth that she just doesn't express herself to Heather like that?
Exactly. And so I'd be more interested in hearing about that and like, really like that's what I'm more interested in to the bottom of not because I want to label someone or, or feel better putting someone in a box saying that, you know, Gretchen is this or is not this.
But like, to me, if that's what we're we've watched the last 16 or 15 weeks for however many to like not even that to come up with is like, what are we supposed to feel about this relationship that has been forged, you know? I don't understand that relationship, but I also think it's a classic case of, well, she's not like that with me.
Yeah. But you don't know then all parts of her and all facets of her personality or what she does when she's not with you saying I love you, you're my friend, I support your family, you know, etcetera, etcetera. Right. Have you stopped her and said, but do you support my family when and if this happened and find out like well, no because you know the Bible says. Was she at? Was Gretchen at that Trevor Project function? She wasn't. I don't doesn't mean anything, but I don't know.
Yeah, I. I think now we start from the beginning because now we're like we're beating. Well, where the hell was the beginning? You tell me. The beginning was the day after with Gretchen talking to Slade and, you know, saying like one thing, I should get over it and hard because I'm traumatized and, you know, because we were saying like, what? What happens? It's like they do they go swinging. We'll never do. I would do that. That'd be fine. I think I've. Actually, I would die.
I think I was, and tell you I was actually, I think I was there before that attraction opened. Esther and Ben and I went. It was good. I would the only time I felt for Gretchen, I was like, I would be shaking as well. It would give me a physical reaction to be I know I'm a harder stand. I know it's, it's safe, but no. So after that, Tamara gives her an apology. You know, about the whole, the cancer stuff and, and whatnot. And I'm sorry they did that.
And, you know, it was an actual, it seemed very real. And they had a moment and like, we're going to be OK. But you're like womp womp. Just wait. Yeah. And then meanwhile, they're in the maze. Are you picking up Gabs? Yeah, I'm talking about trauma. But she was bumping, she was head butting me. See, she's such a pretty Kitty, meow. No, like I'm not. Going to meow when you tell me the meow. But I'm going to hold her. You keep talking. What keeps that? No, she's fine.
She's like enjoying the lights. She's like, look at me, I'm a star. I'm a big, bright shining star. Oh my goodness. What's that? Anyway, this is a dead air. Cut it out. I lost track of what then. Sorry, I didn't realize a cat could do that to you. Well, it's. She needed me. She was headbutting me real good. She needed some snuggles, clearly. OK, I'll put her down. Yes, you can start talking about housewives. OK, I didn't. Realize that Gabs was your Kip
tonight. No, it's just like it threw me off and then, yeah, we'll cut this out. Sure, we will. OK, Yeah, we will. We'll totally cut this out. So. Gretchen. Yes. We will cut this out. I'm sorry, I didn't realize this was going to throw you. Some yeah, yeah, yeah. Crap. I don't know. They had the one on the swings. Oh, they're doing the maze thing with Shannon. Oh, that was funny. Shrooms. That was funny, like again, the fact that Shannon did shrooms, that was amazing a lot.
Of people we should not do shrooms. Maybe. Yeah, she feels like she's on shrooms. But that whole experience in the maze had to have been freaking weird. The fact that they they used your own image and like, if you're already well, maybe they weren't expecting people to be on shrooms, but. I'm sure they expect people to be on drugs because that's what her daughter said. You should, you know, mushrooms and then go through it. Then it's the same thing with the tulips.
Right, extra surreal and extra weird. All the elements, Yeah, yeah, see, yeah. There was like, they were like little moments of levity them on the bikes and whatever. And then like having actual conversations, you know, when they had the picnic and, you know, talking about Jen and, you know, you should be more financially secure. So you have to depend on Ryan.
And I did, I did enjoy that. Like they got to express things that in other episodes, like, oh, you know, like there's this whole thing about your Instagram, blah, blah, blah. Like they got to express that like you, that should be more about you. Like when I open that, when I open it, I feel it's about Ryan. It should be more about you. Right. Like, OK, that makes sense. Which I think then other episodes they could misconstrue
like, well, yeah. It's not disparaging Ryan, basically just saying like you should have your own identity. And also if you can monetize that, that'd be great as well. Yeah, you know, because you're doing these workouts anyways. Why not be like, I used these dumbbells from so and so and, you know, whatever. So no, those are good
conversations. They're like, you know, when they Shannon was like I hurt you, hurt my feelings when Gretchen tried to make something happen and failed about, you know, them making fun of her that. Oh, it was banks and everything. The fact that she said like, could it be the thing we're fat shaming you? Like if you have to, why would you say that? If you have to say the phrase, could it be that they were trying to fetch like? Then that's you putting it out
there. Let me lead you to this water, right? Right. If it's not obvious already, then yeah, that's yeah, yeah. Yes, so I'm glad that like you know, Emily quickly was like, I'm sorry, shut up, Gretchen, but and also I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. Yeah, but I mean they were making. Fashion they were told you're making whatever, but I I but not in the like a like you're you know you're a horrible fat person, right? I, I really feel it was more about her like reliance upon the
Spanx, right? Like, like Shannon's just like a like held together by all that stuff when it's like, why does she need to be like, why does she feel that way? Like that's what I was getting out of. Also, it's a part of her shtick that like I'm hoisting myself up in these Spanx almost like, you know, like a Victorian lady putting herself in a girdle, right?
You know so. Yeah, I, I, I get it that they like it. They were definitely poking fun at her, but in a way that I feel like she's poking fun at herself. Right. But I think that she'd been there. It'd be a different story. Absolutely. Laugh along and be like, oh, biscuits and then you know. Yeah, but the Gretchen was definitely trying to make drama. Where? As soon as she walked away with her, I was like, where is she doing? Why is she like, I need a moment alone for you, Shannon.
Yeah, yeah. And then the whole Heather. Much better than Sutton with MERS and the purse. So much better. Like just having that moment, like just going and seeing the the old house they used to live in. And bringing just Emily, which is a choice, I would say, like I wouldn't I never would have thought a million years. Like let's bring Emily. Like I figured she'd bring Shannon or maybe Tamara, right.
But and you know, good, good. For, you know, going through kind of as, as she was saying similar thing and whatnot. But yeah, I think having just the coincidence of that man walking out and saying come into the house and beautiful house, being able to have those memories, talk about her father and then have an actual real moment when she spread his ashes not into the wind was really nice too. So that was I think before the storm to have like these little
bits of moment. Moments were great. Yeah. Was like the other moments before we got to the the dinner I. Don't think so. I mean, Gina looking fantastic this whole episode, but I think that's only I'm only bringing that up because of what the reunion dresses look like. Which do we talk about that next year through next year, next year? We will, but no, like still like, I think, I don't know, like Emily or Gina's looking really good and like in a way that I was not expecting.
Her outfits are really great, like when she was wearing the when they're riding the bikes and she's a little schoolgirl outfit and you know. Oh, that green jacket she was wearing. Like, I want to. I want something like that for myself. Like, I want to dress like a college professor, right? With the elbow pads. Yeah, elbow pads, not knee pads. Definitely elbow pads, so. But yeah, so, and we got to see Amsterdam and not in a hot tub time machine rolling down the
canal. So that was good, yeah. So then yes. You were really trying to make sense of this episode like you are you trying to bring it back to an actual like show before? Well, I don't want to like, just talk about like the ending and there's other things we need to cover. Yeah. Not that we're, you know, again, we're not a recap show, but we need to talk about they were nice moments before the shit hit
the fan. And so I think like talking about that is, is good because we can't, you know, we want to focus on everything that happened in the episode. So they tried to make it a well-rounded finale before they got into a really dark rabbit hole. Yeah. So, So yeah, the dinner didn't go. I like what Tamara said. Let's wait till the last dinner because then we cop on a plane
and, you know, we're done. So the things get exposed and everyone is just so quick to say, oh, well, that's bad, you know, and I do go back to her saying before it was weird how calm Gretchen was about it. Of what do you mean? I don't know. I don't, I don't think I'd like that, you know? That when's the last time like if I were to be like, Hey, I saw you liked this thing on you would know what you liked and then like, or you'd at least be like that sounds like something I'd like.
Well you can also say was it Slade who runs her account when she's not if she's an influencer needing to be running her account 24/7 because she's working true show. So if someone just scrolling through and finding anti trans anti whatever posts and like. Them right? I don't. Again, I don't understand. Again, if it comes. That's the question I hope it gets asked to the reunion. Who has access to your to your
Instagram? Is it just you or could somebody else possibly like these things right? It comes down to it, though, that like, if you were to say to me, oh, you liked this thing, I'm like, I would not know. Like she was very much like, well, that doesn't sound like something. It's like. I don't know. Show me the things. Yeah, very, very eerily calm about it. Because she again like I. And then calling the Slade as if. What was that going to do? Call them after you're finished the.
I don't know how you come back on housewives having liked things like that without being ready to address them. And so I feel like the way she was calm about it was like, I've been expecting this. Like, of course this would happen. And I I don't know if she thought that maybe she would have when the moment happened, like the most perfect thing to say and she didn't.
But like, it seems to me that that's you either when you do something that's against your character, you speak up very loud and very quickly, very adamantly about it. And you're just like, that is not true. And you can do it wholeheartedly without hesitation. And the fact that she's like, well, what are you talking about? I just like. I mean, maybe it's weird for me to try to, again, I'm not playing playing devil's advocate either. But as Heather said, she could have been in shock.
She could have been thinking, what do I say? What do I say that's going to make this better? So you're rolling around in your mind thinking, how do I correct this? And you have. But it is odd that Heather has such this big reaction and a lot of energy coming at her and Gretchen isn't matching that. Instead she is very calm and she walked up to her afterwards. You know, I don't, I wouldn't say that I love your family.
It was just too calm. I don't need her to be hysterical because she got a little bit when she was outside of the car, right? But, well, that's because that's the way the women were treating her. It was like. Oh, they were shutting her down. You're you're, you are ostracizing me over my beliefs now. Like, oh, this is becoming real. Well, no, it was more so aside from Tamra who had to be held back, everyone was very quiet. Right?
That made her reaction be big, whereas if the table everyone had a big reaction. Well, mainly Tamra and Heather and she was very calm. So it's weird that she was flipping the energy. Yeah, she was receiving. Yeah. You know, I don't know. I don't know what makes her tick. I don't I don't understand. I think she's a calculating person. I think she shared that with the the Shannon incident, but I don't I don't know what to
believe. I don't know if this now it makes me question if it if she again, I don't question the fact that she could like these things or could have these beliefs, but I wonder about the validity of these screenshots. Oh, really? Well when you say the next when the next day Gina says I can't find these. Aside from the screenshots, I can't find her liking these actual posts. Right. Unless Slade cleaned them up right away. Right. Or wipe the Internet.
I don't know if he has the ability to do that. How did that happen, you know? Yeah, I mean. That's why none of this makes sense. Yeah, I just, it's too convenient in so many ways. I don't know. If you were to turn, if I were to turn to you and say like you liked this thing that you had never seen in your life, you wouldn't be like, what are you talking about? You'd be like, no, like you would be more instantly, more adamantly like, no, I don't feel that way. I never have felt that way.
Like the fact of the matter is, is that it comes down to that Gretchen has a belief near to those things and she's trying to mitigate the damage. Like I don't, I, I don't, I feel like a fucking idiot for not just like someone who believes those things or like could, could believe those things. I don't want to have much sympathy for. I don't want to like persecute someone wrongly but at the same time like. I don't persecute them wrongly
in this one instance. Right, I'm just saying like she doesn't deserve a lot of my sympathy because I'm I'm pretty sure she does not like yay gays, like gays and trans in every way. Like let's go ahead and like let you know, let it all happen. I'm pretty sure she's supported like, limiting gay rights and like making, you know, And the only reason I'm being at all waffly about it is that I don't know this person in real life. I don't know. I've never had a conversation with her.
Like, I would feel better to say these things adamantly having had a conversation with them personally. But at the same time, the things that we've seen historically about her doesn't lead me to believe that we should be like giving her the benefit of the doubt. But as a man on a podcast in this situation, I, you know, I don't want to just condemn her immediately. I want her to have her moment to like defend herself. And it just doesn't seem like something.
That well, and then it goes back to just believing. I've said many times it's hard to believe anything Gretchen says because she lies, as she showed early on in the season with the hospital thing, right? You know, just start at the beginning of the season or even before they started filming. When it was announced that she was coming back, it really irked me because not just as a character, but also what she stands for and what she believes in.
It bugged me that they would bring someone like that onto the show. You know, they've had people similar to that and they're no longer on the show, thankfully. So just to bring that energy on, just to do a tit for tat while they did it with a luxurious on Shanna, now they need to sick somebody on Tamra and see what happens. And this is what happens. This utter ball of confusion, you know? Yeah, Yeah. I don't think ultimately she was great for the show with the
energy that she brought. Not just this instance, but also the Katy of it all, the being stuck of in the past and then when you finally get to this, I don't and then bringing slate on and that they're A2 Fer it's it's hard to watch. It's hard to watch. I don't advocate for anyone being fired about saying fire, I'm just saying she is hard to
watch. Well, I mean, she's just a temp anyway, so I mean, come on. I mean, I, I don't, I would think she wouldn't come back if they couldn't bring back Alexis. I don't, should not bring back Gretchen. I think when they're bringing on like these old beefs, I don't think they're bringing them on with like any realistic. They're trying to bring them on to like resolve a situation. If they if they hit fire in a bottle or lightning in a bottle, then good for them is what they're hoping.
But yeah, I don't think they're bringing on these old beefs to like, really get anywhere with. It I feel people I was trying to think just now of people of housewives who've been were housewives and then were brought back as a friend and then evolved into being a full time cast member and charade comes to mind because she I can't remember all the details, but it didn't seem that she was coming back with a vendetta right or wanting to talk about things that happened in 2012 it.
Was more about where she was today. Right and new beef, you know not focusing on I don't like Nini for this reason from 2012 and instead I don't like Nini because of 2020 whenever. Yeah, 2022. No, you're right, absolutely. And that's why this is, you're right and so confusing as to why they would go this way, why they would like pivot to make it seem like Tamara's making this all
up, which I really. Do they want to have a balanced as if they're saying, well, we're going to throw this out there that maybe Gretchen, but The thing is. They're like, we have the Mcbee dynasty. We we might, might want to, might want to capitulate towards a lot of conservative people now on Bravo. Well, but you don't do that by making them seem as if they're
they're homophobic assholes. Well, but if it makes it out that like the Liberals are trying to make them seem that way, maybe I'm just saying I don't. Think it's that. I think it was just interesting how you throw it out there that potentially Gretchen could have liked these horrible posts that are very anti LGBTQ and then you quickly retract it after the commercial break. Yeah. And then you pivot to Tamra's leaking things, which doesn't really vibe with everything
else. It will be one thing if they are trying to prove, if this person who called Gina said I can prove to you that Gretchen didn't like these things, as Slade said, I will. I will. I'm going to go with the mat. He didn't say this, but he basically, I'm going to prove it's Tamara. I'm going to prove that you aren't this horrible homophobic person. And then but how do you do that? If you can't prove it, you pivot to something else, right? IE Tamara is leaking information.
And then I'm just a conspiracy theorist. It makes this is what you're doing show. Now I'm thinking all these conspiracies, why would this come out? Did Tamara action leak information? Is it Slay? Did he pay this voice person? And what voice person? Who is this person? Who is this mystery person? Well, I mean, you're supposed to assume this mystery person is someone legitimate who they're hiding his identity. Their Blogger. Their content creator.
There's something there's someone who needs their identity. Gotta stop saying Blogger. This is not. Yeah, it's not 1996. Yeah. 96, 2006 Yeah, whichever. So yeah, I my main problem that just doesn't sit right with me right now is like, why I should give a shit. Like, I mean, honestly, before any of tonight happened, we all assumed Gretchen and others on the show had a very conservative leaning that they did not necessarily support the LGBT community.
They don't support trans rights. They don't support any number of things that you and I would. So like in any sort of regular conversation. I don't know why I should be giving them the benefit of the doubt. Like, I guess for the storytelling and then for the, you know, like this is reality. And like, we don't, you know, I want to know, like, at the end of the day, that this person is or was not thinking a certain way.
But the same time, like, I don't know, I don't want to give Gretchen the benefit of the doubt. Like, I believe that she liked those things. I believe that whether she truly believes them, I believe she did it. And that the conversation that needs to be had is why she feels that's OK. Why if she doesn't, if she can't stand up and say I didn't do
that and here's why. If she can't look Heather in the face and say I love your kids and I think that they're great and I liked these things, but I don't agree with this, this and this. If she can't do that on a camera, then I don't want I don't want to hear it, you know, and that that's comes down like I'm curious, just for the sake of fairness. I do want to hear that her side, but I don't care at the end of the day.
Like I think, I think she's, I think that she's trying to capitulate and make things OK so she can be on TV. Does it suck if Tamara's putting it out there and like trying to like make? Yeah, a little bit, but. Do you think it's both things though? Just focusing on the? Do you think she created these AI generated forever? And also do you think she's leaking information? Do you think both things are
just one or the other? I don't think Tamra, I don't think any housewife would go through the trouble of creating AI. Garbage maybe? The thing is, like we come from going back to Diana on Beverly Hills being accused of sticking bots on Garcelle's bots. Are one thing. But still, it's, it's still, it's making something out of nothing to attack a castmate. So this is where we are in Housewives. I can. I can see Tamara doing it just because Tamara wants to be proven right.
I really hope that's not the case because I think Tamara could have been proven right without it. And that's where it just, it just doesn't make sense for the show to do this because if they have put this idea out there that Tamara has manufactured all of this just for the sake of being right, then they have essentially fired Tamara again. Like I don't think there's any way Tamara gets back from it. Right, if you're well, I think it's more so about leaking
information is worse to them. So to make this case. Oh yeah. So strongly from this person and to put time stamps and date stamps on all of this to try to prove a point that Tamara leaked this information. I don't understand why they do that either. I was her. I would be very upset seeing.
Especially when they know and they probably had major negotiations over the fact that Tamara came back to the show having had a successful podcasting, you know, stint and knowing that she was going to have these things where she couldn't talk about the show. And like she had involvement in this in the press side of things. Like they it just like it's like playing with fire almost. I don't think that she would leak information. I think maybe she might dig up Stop Not Maybe.
I think she would stop, but I don't think that she would leak information to bloggers because she knows how that could come back and be proven and hurt her and get her kicked off. I would agree with that. She's not stupid. I mean, unless this whole idea of wanting to quit, especially last year, when what she's going through, she's just like, Oh, well, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to go down a blame blaze of glory and you know she. I would say Blazer Gore.
I would say I don't care about this show. I'll leak things. But again. No, but like if I'm going to go down, I'm going to be in a ball of fire. Like I'm not going to like leave. Like this time, if I'm going to leave, I'm not going to if I'm going to be the way I want to go out. What? Is the ball of fire. What is you? What do you get from the saying leak is leaking this
information? Just that she did it her way that like instead of being fired this time, it it would be like I told the story that I wanted to tell. Like, I mean, we start out if you remember on 2 TS she was saying you're not going to like me this season and. Well, I think that's more so like the quitting part and just being flying off the handle and not being able to control her
emotions. I mean, if you were trying to, if you were doing something you didn't like to do, but you were like, and you didn't want to walk away from it, like if you're trying to get yourself fired, this is a good way to get. Self sabotage. Yes it could. Be if she did this, yes, again, I don't think she would do that either. I think she would just walk away. I would hope. So she was going to quit.
If Teddy hadn't talked her into going back, I don't think we would have seen her the rest of the season. Yeah. And something Katie would have flipped through the entire season. But I'm just saying though. But with that being said, she went back and she's like, OK, well, if if I was ready to walk away, like, you know, I'm just doing this for, you know, the sake of getting paid more like. But you're not getting anything. What I'm getting at is you're not getting at getting anything
from leaking information. That's why it's me. One, she's not stupid. Two, you're not gaining anything by leaking this information. So this person may have had all the information, but what did they do with it? It wasn't like with Teresa and Right, right, right. That and Jen Aiden leaking information. So I just started laughing. This voice is probably Katie. It's she's like, Tamara told me what was going on. But now. But she and Katie were were good. They were like teaming up
against Spreadsheet, right? Right, right. So it's like, couldn't be Katie either. You don't gain anything. That's why it's hard. I can't believe it's Tamara because Tamra would do things to benefit Tamra and this does not benefit Tamra.
True. Unless you're just trying to spin a narrative of if she this is how you could have the links mate be from Tamra if you're leaking information that is detrimental to Gretchen. If you're saying in this scene that I shot that there was shot, although when turned on Gretchen, they kicked her out of a car. That is something that a Blogger would be like, oh, let's run with. Sorry, a content creator would run with and the press would run with of Oh well, they're
shooting. Gretchen gets ostracized by the whole group. This little it's antsy bullshit of she met with Katie. She ran out of New Orleans. She fake quits very keywords. She fake quits. It doesn't serve her so it's they it's so dumb. Not dumb, I've it's. I don't understand why it's. Silly. There's a lot. Of no, no, I don't understand why Shannon and Gina and Jim are so quick to say, well, of course Tamara's leaking information.
Look at the bigger picture about what this does and what, what puzzle piece, what chess piece does this move? It doesn't. Again, sometimes they're just playing checkers though. Yeah, but it doesn't make sense. Yeah. No, I, I, I'm not in it. I'm not disagreeing with you there. It just. That's why I don't believe the leaks that came from Tamara. That I don't believe. Could someone have sent her some fake information? The whole, the whole Gretchen, like, you know, the folk stuff.
Yes. And she ran with that. Yeah. But it supposedly came from I heart, is what she says. I really need more background about that, about a three and two. When I went in to say, how long have you known about this? How did you hear about it? Because I feel like this has been going on for a while. So that's the part that still drives me up the wall. Like Gretchen is not secretively like, let's go down to Wii Ho and hang out with the gays. Right, like. She's been very vocal and very
obvious about her conservatism. And this has been brought up on Reddit for months and months and months. Yeah, I don't know about right back a year. I don't know the timeline, but it's not a surprise about Gretchen's beliefs. Yeah, so. I'm just trying to think like if we had a friend that like we, we, we do have friends that we question, they're like, you know, are they conservative, they liberal, like, you know, where do they fall on, on this? Do they support us?
So like if we were to find all of a sudden one of those friends was just like vocally, like, no, gays are bad. Like, we knew about it and we're trying to hope for the best. Like, could that be happening with Heather and Emmel? You know, all of that? Like, it's got to be a tough road to walk where you're like, I'm hoping this isn't the case, but you find yourself there still hoping that this person doesn't think these horrible things about us.
But then they probably do. Or they're at least friends with horrible people that just, you know, aren't fun to be around. Yeah, it's just the whole, like some of my best friends are right, but it doesn't even matter if are we truly friends if you're supporting things that don't support me. And I think that's where Heather definitely comes down to with this episode and. She got over it so quickly.
She felt so bad. So that car ride back to the airport where they all felt so bad and Tamara, I think not, I don't think I know part of Tamara was saying this sucks for Heather. It's really sad. But I thought this would be the nail of the coffin. And that's why she went back to this girl's been doing this to me for 12 years. I've been saying for so long that she's horrible. She's not a good person. She thought this would be the nail of the coffin, and it's
not. I might say she thought I'd be in the old coffin. Not that she was trying to make the nail happen. Well, she did, but she wasn't. She wasn't creating. I don't feel like she was like trying to hammer the nail in. She was just trying to be like, look, what more do we need to yeah. Show that she's a bad person and everyone. Or that it's possible that everything she's been saying about me is just part of her overall vadnais. Yeah. Yeah, it just sucks.
And I think, and part of it is what, you know, we're talking about. Like you like, don't want to feel like these people truly do despise you or really have something against you. But then when you think about it or start to analyse it, it's just like, well, why? What have they done to show me otherwise? You know, they're not like jumping out and being like, you know, being supportive of certain things. They're just, they always have that weird little tickle of
like, this is just not right. So that's, again, that's where like, I just don't feel, I feel about other podcasts we've talked to and we've been on like they would just be very much like, screw Gretchen, you know, like, this is awful. Why are we even entertaining the idea that she's a good person, right? But I think that's also what is worth talking about with these shows.
Right, I thought walking into this, I would just say she's guilt because I thought they, I didn't expect what happened at the end, right? I thought it'd be just clearly Gretchen's horrible, she liked horrible things on Instagram and instead I'm questioning the the validity of these horrible things and these screenshots. And now I'm also my mind is being distracted by the leaks of it all. So they this was not a well produced episode because. Or was it we're talking about it they're.
Talking about it, but we're also there's not a clear narrative. It's very messy. The show's messy, the producers are messy. It's very muddy and murky. What I hear you telling me this is like an Oscar film. It's not a very clear narrative. It's it's an open ending. What do you feel happened? It's just it's really murky. Yeah, no, I don't. I don't like it, but at the same time it is it's thought provoking in a way that I don't
expect from my housewives. We were just thinking too hard about it. We've been accused of that as well, So and like, but it's what I like about these shows. It's what I think makes them interesting in a point is like it's not just black and white. It's not cut and dry. It's complicated. But at the same time, I think in this, in my gut, in this specific case, I think that Gretchen liked those things and I think that she I think she has a difficult relationship with the gay community.
I just I thought you about to say the truth. Well, and that I just think that like, you know, she wants to condemn it because it just doesn't strike her at her at the surface of being something she wants to support. But I think she also understands that it's not, you know, binary literally in the sense that, like, you know, gay people don't equal bad. But at the same time, it's probably something she's been fed her entire life.
I'm always, you know. Yeah, so I just, I just don't want to defend people who I wouldn't. Question that. We're questioning things. I want to, I want to help people understand that like, you know, it's not an easy situation. It's not a clear cut thing. I also want to help people understand that like, you know, it's stupid as it sounds. It's, it's as easy as do you hate people? Oh, you don't. Well, then why do you, you know, it's like it, it, it's not hard
to love somebody. Just, you know, support people, try not to cut people down, build them up. You know that's all it takes. No matter who they are. Except when they're Gretchen. I think to sum up what did because again, we keep going down the rabbit hole. Yeah, sorry. No, it's it's no, that's what we're thinking now that we're at the end of the season. What did you think of the season and what are you looking forward to with these this three-part reunion?
I like how you've gotten to become a better interview question asker. Like these are all things that like a year ago, you and I would not have been asking what do I want out of the next three episodes? I want this addressed. They won't do it. I'm not going to convince myself otherwise. Not to our satisfaction. Yeah, no, it's going to be very lightly glossed over. I that's a tough question. They're going to spend a lot of time on Ryan and Jen's whole thing. Tamra, Jen Thing.
Right. I think there's been some time on Shannon and you know, where she is independently and like, you know, why she wants to support Jen's marriage so much and that's to become a thing. Yeah. I don't, I don't know how to answer that. I really don't like, I think this is a very weird season, but I'm, I think I'm too wrapped up in what happened tonight to really answer that. I'll I'll be able to ask me that same question start of next week before we get into the three.
It was at the end of the of the three parts. You know what we thought about the season. Yeah, I think it was a very up and down season. Some filler episodes, you know, some interesting points, some good points or moments. I would say some stronger kind of interesting words, some strong things, some nice things, some good things, some bad things. True. I too. Yeah. I guess maybe I can't necessarily answer that question either. I would say I'm hoping for more clarity in the reunion.
That's my I'm setting the intention for clarity and it's already been shot, but I hope I'm hoping for. While you were talking, I really feel I, I don't know, I feel like they were really trying to make Tamara look vulnerable and be vulnerable, but not in a redeeming way.
This season or just. This entire season, I feel like a lot of the the the thread through the season has been Tamara's a horrible person and doesn't know what to do about it. And I don't know if they're trying to do that like in a, it doesn't feel like they're doing that in a positive light. Like it seems like the entire thread was Tamara's horrible and we shouldn't like her. Like, yeah, I mean. Which is a weird thing to do for someone that they really hang the entire series upon.
Right. But then, but she's been cast in the role of the villain, and so you're not. It's interesting, somewhat related, kind of listening to to tease and talking about the Salt Lake episodes. Tamra talks about how she relates to Lisa so much and how she hates her. This is a takedown season and etcetera, etcetera, right? So I think relating it to herself, but the only person who took down Tamra was Tamra and her actions and her quitting and the high emotions.
And it came from a place of course, as I said before, dealing with both the therapy and past traumas and the teddy stuff. But she didn't. So it's, I understand where it's coming from, but she didn't express that in the best way and her actions weren't great. And so no one and that the cast was just reacting to what she was giving them and they could have given her more grace for sure. But they weren't trying to take her down. Unless your name is Gretchen and
your name is Jen, right? You know, Shannon may not like Tamara, but she's not trying to take her down. She might be petty with her for sure, but she's not. Trying to take her Emily wasn't like trying to lift her up either. No, but she wasn't trying to. She, we're not nor Heather, we're trying to take her down. Tamara was bringing herself down by her just crazy chaotic
energy, right? So it's not a fair comparison, but I think what's going into what you're saying, yes, they've shown her like, I'm very vulnerable, but I'm not expressing it well and I'm being an asshole and I'm raging and I'm spinning and I'm walking out and I'm quitting every 5 minutes. And so, you know, a one hand, it's what they're get, what she's giving them, what they have to work with. And on the other hand, it does seem as if you're hanging her out to dry.
And then this last episode especially, running the bus over her back. And forth. You know, didn't help things so as if I'm her, I would say watching all this, why do I keep why do I keep doing this? Yeah, Why am I coming back? But it's just really next year's season 20. Like, is next year going to be a tamer of redemption season? Like, is this all to be like, last season was bad for me, you know? I think if it's going to be that, then she needs to grow.
And I love Tamra, but she needs to grow. Grow a lot needs a lot of water. A lot of growth, a lot of a lot of water, a lot of sunshine, enrich that soil. You know, take this metaphor, wherever you will go with it, you got to you got to do that because you know, this season only built off of last season and then throwing whatever she could have and Shannon and then spinning and spinning and throwing shit at Gin and Gretchen. So I think I for sure she needs you back in season 20.
It's just a definite, you can't lose that. But you need to show something more, because otherwise, yes, you can carry the show. But if you're carrying it in the same old way you've been carrying it, you got to keep moving. And people. Yeah. It's not just about them moving forward. It's about the with other people. It's about moving forward with yourself. Right. And I don't think people like Tamara brings great chaos.
Yeah. But there's only so much chaos you can watch before you're just like, OK, what does this mean? Why and my? Eyes turns on you. Yeah, so she needs to like bring it back to something meaningful, if ever was anything meaningful. I don't know what she did before she came back, but yeah, it's. So yeah, clarity and the reunion and just I hope Andy can make sense of this. I love that you keep trying to make sense of this episode that we're doing, like we're all over the place.
Here, oh, it's very all over. The place and hats off to you for like I I'm I'm embracing the chaos of this because this what we just watched was pretty unhinged. I feel the fact that you're like there's 1/2 hour before it got unhinged. I'm like. Yeah, again, you can't just focus on the last few minutes. You know, there were actually some good moments and that are like fun. That's also saying you're not
wrong. You're gonna have fun and the drama you have to have the we're riding around on bicycles and talking about real shit. And then we're we're ripping each other's faces off. But this is like compared to like other shows salt like Potomac, whatever. This was mild ripping the face off, you know, And then they felt bad ripping the face off, like with less than 24 hours
later. Yeah. So. I think I just feel a little, I mean, obviously because the whole thing hits close to home and like the whole idea of, you know, someone approving or disapproving of you know who we are as people. Like, I don't know, like it just. Yeah. Yeah, it made, it just brings up the whole idea of like, how do we have a podcast about a show where like admittedly most people are, you know, maybe not supportive of us, you know, but I don't want to get into that
right now. But it just it's just thing to consider. It's the only thing about for like Bravo in general. It's ignoring certain things and sometimes we're willing to ignore it more so than others. I definitely pick and choose who to ignore in terms of their beliefs outside of the show. So I don't know. It's, it's a very complicated relationship we have with this network and with these housewives, right?
So, and this definitely brought that to the surface because we don't talk about things like this normally so. Meanwhile, Liam McSweeney is feeling like, all right, yeah, that's, you know, complication. That's a whole different thing. It is no, but I mean it comes down to the whole idea of like.
That was they fed me alcohol to try to make me perform like a. Bud, but that's the same situation though, where it's it's not the same, but similar in that like, you know, we support the ridiculous drunkenness of it all, but not this side, you know. So there's definitely, I'm not, I'm not saying I support the takedown of Bravo, but there's definitely the they play both sides of things and it makes it difficult sometimes to enjoy. You don't. No, I wouldn't bring Leanne to it.
OK. All right. That's a whole another level of messiness that. Yeah. No, I agree. It's not like. I think what you're trying to do with the analogy, but all right, you know, housewives analogy. Should not make analogies all right. Should we move on? Yes. Have we beat this to death yet? For sure we have. All right, so we'll talk about it next time. Till next time, OK?