Oli Le Lievre 0:00
The Better Business series is supported by the farm business Resilience Program through the Australian Government's future drought Fund, and the New South Wales Department of Primary Industries. Across these next few weeks and episodes, we're going behind the scenes and chatting to some people who are making some serious impact in inroads across Australia. And they're not just limited to agriculture. Our aim is to uncover what's worked for them, discuss their learnings, and through their stories provide ways for you to get some of those aha moments or things that might be able to benefit you, your business and your community. Well, Good day and welcome to Episode One. I'm your host Oliver leave. In Episode One and two, we're sitting down with Mitch Hart. Mitch is the Managing Director and Founder of Bullseye AG, following an extensive agriculture career that saw him on farms around the world and in the corporate offices of some of the major agricultural companies. Mitch started bull's eye AG, in the pursuit of offering everyone access to quality farm management, and consultancy services. In episode one, we're going to explore Mitch his story, and how and why Bullseye ag started, how he juggled life, other roles and building his own business. We understand how he's approached growing his team, his approach to management and communication, and the importance for him in being transparent about where the business is. Let's get into it. Well, welcome back to the humans of agriculture podcast. We've got Mitch, hire that a second time around for him. It's on the humans of ag podcast. I think the first time we chatted and actually, it was very interesting. Off the back of that chat. I had someone come up to me, and I was in scone at the literary festival. And they were like, off the back of Mitch Hart episode, my son got the confidence to reach out to Mitch. And from that, I think he actually started working for it, which is a pretty cool little story.
Speaker 2 1:49
Absolutely. Yeah. And goes to show that just that that one word, yes, can open up some pretty big doors.
Oli Le Lievre 1:55
And so today, I think last time we focused on your story today, we want to do a bit of a deep dive and understand more about Bullseye agriculture and how you've built it created it, what have been some of the, I guess, the learnings and lessons throughout it, but I'd love to start off like what is bullseye? Can you give us a little bit of an overview about what is the business?
Speaker 2 2:11
Yeah, so pretty much the old elevator pitch of bull's eye argues it's a farm management and rural management company. So we focused on the rural sphere and look after farms, at its core, is it looking after the farms for different types of owners, whether that be the individual, the corporate level, the government level, as well. But more and more as well, we're expanding what that means and what that's defined as. So you know, We're looking now at how we can help manage rural projects fight like, you know, access to different grants and loans that exist in the farming sphere. So it started off as just supplying some labor to some farms. And it was really kind of spread out from that.
Oli Le Lievre 2:50
And was it a gap in the market? Was there something you saw? Was it something you dreamt up? Like? Where'd the idea come from?
Speaker 2 2:55
Yeah, so really, it came from being a part of the I suppose the, you know, that farming world, going out and doing some time in more of the agriculture, corporate world, and looking at how they assist those large corporate end of town. So there was a lot of support that existed for people that wanting to do deals in the hundreds of millions. And there was all this different advice, all this different consulting and advisory that they could get their hands on. But really, there was nothing for those people that were saying, hey, look, I want to get into farming. I've got some capital here. I don't really know how to do it. I don't really know which direction I should take. And yeah, we just kind of saw that as a bit of an opening, and started with the first client off the back of data. And then yeah, kept on going. And like I said, it's not so much just that anymore. We're now working with people that have been farming all their lives and looking at doing their succession planning or their movement to another direction. So it just keeps on getting water.
Oli Le Lievre 3:49
And if I remember correctly, I think you're working in Sydney at the time where you saw this opportunity for the first time you held on to juggling, I guess full time work, but actually then starting to dabble and create Bullseye from the very beginning.
Speaker 2 4:01
Yeah, my life has been a juggling act, to be honest, no hours, not enough time. But look, it certainly, you know, I was not comfortable leaving a really good job that I love doing full time until I was ready to commit. And there's also that support that you need entrepreneurialship or starting a new business isn't for everyone. And I will first to admit that I definitely didn't go out there thinking hey, I'm gonna be a business owner or I'm gonna go and start my own thing. It was just an opportunity that I saw and it took a fair bit for me to and still does takes a fair bit to kind of go well I'm going 100% Just commit to this one thing. I'm dedicated to the success or the failure of it. So yeah, it does take a fair bit to take that jump and even when you do take that jump there's nothing to stop you kind of soon back to the shore and dabbling in a few things. And especially if you want to grow you need to get that capital from somewhere and startup business is certainly not the most thinkable thing when you look at
Oli Le Lievre 4:57
debt, not at all in a little bit of a tree. I record. Have you looked at like when you've been taking up off farm roles outside of bulls? Or have you been looking for specific businesses or going? Okay, this is a skill set, I want to learn for myself, or how have you approached those different businesses in terms of their role either being as a cash support or actually skill support?
Speaker 2 5:16
Yeah, look, it's a really good question, actually. Because I do look back on it. I think at the time, it's funny how, like, the relevance of what you're good at, kind of comes to you a little bit and how you can see that what might have started off as just a basic, you know, can we get you in to do a week, turns into something longer, and turns into something bigger, and it snowballs from there? I think certainly, there's always been, I'll do this, because I can see that there is a potential for a bigger Bullseye piece to play. But that's not discounting as well, that cash piece that is driving the business, like there's been several times where I've had to remove myself from bull's eye as a paid employee received that money from somewhere else, so that bull's eye can actually grow and prosper, which seems really backwards. But like I said, that capital needs to come from somewhere. And generally, if you're running a business where there's only one or two employees in the business, you as the one that owns it, are generally the biggest person trying to pull the needs of the money out of it, you're the biggest expense to the business, and you need to pull that back. So I just went out looking for where I could make a difference where Bullseye egg potentially could play a part. And where there was also good income to be made as well.
Oli Le Lievre 6:30
And so I'm interested with you actually, then I guess that Tom's, let's say, removing yourself, whether it's just literally from the expense sheet, because I know you care about it, you're too passionate about the business to ever remove yourself. But how do you actually find and what was it when it came to building a team? What were the characteristics of people you were looking for that you hired, given that the nature of the work and position you're out in your startup business was, I guess, floating in and out in terms of being able to be around them all the time versus sometimes completely removed?
Speaker 2 6:59
Yeah. So employing the right people is, without a doubt, the most vital and critical part of a business growing and developing, I found the step going from hiring one person, really, really hard. And then to hiring kind of, you know, your fifth and your sixth and your seventh and so on, it gets easier. But those first one or two people that you hire, I think is the most critical to the success of the ongoing business, we look for people that are absolutely self motivated, self driven, autonomous, they don't need their handheld, they're just ready to get in. And we try to really feed that entrepreneurial spirit in them, they, when they come in, you go into that interview, and they're talking to you about how they think they can make a difference in your business, how they love parts of the business and how they think you can like within really thought about it, that fills me with a heap of trust, straight off the bat, like they're thinking about it, they've got an idea. And it's my job and the company's job to support and structure them to be able to go for that. So I don't necessarily employ for an opening that I've got, at a certain point of time, I'm really looking at the person and saying, How can we build a business around you the piece that you add? How do we go, okay, look, this wasn't a direction I wanted to go right now. But you're here, you're ready to go your cane, let's get you in and start driving that pathway forward. And there's some classic examples in our business where we've pivoted, we will probably a good couple of years away from where we're going to need that the right person came with the right skill set. And we said right out, let's do this.
Oli Le Lievre 8:36
I'd love to know, like from the management point of view, so you then build where you brought these people in, to then build a business around it. Like how have How have you managed that? I guess the business isn't nearly that momentum is moving in front of the wagon, and you actually taking off, how do you keep the reins in when you've got these really skilled, capable people, while you're still kind of figuring it out.
Speaker 2 8:56
I think I get tired a little bit too much that I'm just racing, racing racing, it's always going forward, forward, forward. And we got caught a little while ago when we had so much work and not enough people. And you could see how the team dynamic was starting to suffer because everyone was flat out like so flat out that no one really we weren't doing a great job. We were kind of getting B's and everything. And that's not really what our business is about. We want to be the best at what we do. So we had to figure out and luckily some things happened. And we were able to manage through that. But I think it's being conscious of what the team is telling you and being able to read the dynamic of the team. No one said to me, you know, hey, Mitch, this is ridiculous. Like, you've got to stop. It was more how I could see how things were changing when we were going to our weekly team meetings and doing a catch up. And you can just see there was a bit of a lack of excitement or the lack of drive or you know, I want the guys and the members of my team to be really pumped about what our next plan is and what we're working towards not, you know, oh god, I've got to go do this. Like, you know, how am I going to fill this in with my way it's just too much on So it's been able to pick up those cues. And yeah, that's how I kind of read it is picking up the cues. Like I said, None of your staff are ever going to come up to you and say, No, you know, you're a shit boss. And they said, This train is just going off the rails, they're only going to tell you that when they said, Hey, here's my redundancy. And I'm kind of going,
Oli Le Lievre 10:19
Yeah, I'd love to know on that. So we'll call it systems or processes or whatever it is in your business. But how have you actually built that to being able to manage the team as it has grown? So like, you kind of just gave the example there of meetings. But what are the systems and processes? Have you actually used to help you manage your team?
Speaker 2 10:35
Yeah, so we started off very basic, like we're on Gmail accounts, and Excel spreadsheets, like it was just basic and free. And that works fine. Like, I think what the important part about that is, as you're growing and starting up is, don't try to think that you need all those programs and mechanisms in there from the start, because they do cost money. Like I'll tell you now, in our it, I never thought I'd pay the it bills that I pay now. But it's required. So get be scrappy, like, do it three Excel spreadsheets, have your Gmail account and just kind of battled through it, when there's a certain size and scale. And look, I think, for me, it came to learn we were at around five staff is that it was time to start thinking a bit more around, how do we kind of protect our clients security and our clients? You know, because we hold a lot of financial information and sensitive information, we need to make sure we're protecting that as best we can. But we also need to make sure that we're functioning as a business really well, too. And I learned of some of those programs working for those companies outside of Bullseye ag like what was some of the programs that they were using that were really, really good? are the ones that I hated using? And you know, avoid them at all costs? So to answer your question is, I really look for things that are integrated with each other. So if you're running your accounting software through Xero, for example, is look for the different apps and plugins and things like that that will speak to it. So a prime example of that is, for our project management tool that we've got, we use Xero accounting project management tool that we've got, we found that there was a project management function that actually existed in Xero, that will automatically do all your invoicing and things like that, and we coded it up, we probably don't use it, right, but it works for us. And it means that for the team is the only event like when they're logging their time, when they're looking at their pay slips when they're putting in their leave when they're doing everything. It's all in just one app. And that makes it really easy for onboarding for ongoing work. And yeah, it makes it easier for me that I've got one click functionality in one kind of, you know,
Oli Le Lievre 12:38
it's been a game changer, because we've only recently started to use that as well. And I think for me, while I'm a very visual person, but being literally able to look at it and go, This is what we forecast and estimate, it's going to expand as you're going through. It's like cool. This is where we're blowing out budget, this is where we're conserving and then you start to look at it. And it just gives you literally up to date information. As long as you're doing you're putting your info in. It's all in.
Speaker 2 13:01
Yeah, and especially when like us when we're developing new service offerings that we can do is the first couple always going to be a shot in the dark, right? Like you don't know if it's going to take you 15 hours or 50 hours, like you look at it through a lens of Oh, yeah, this is pretty easy. And then first hurdle comes and the second hurdle comes in the third row comes in all of a sudden, you've blown out. And so for the next person that you know, you're applying that service for you look at it and go, Okay, here's where we went over, here's where we went under, and you're able to really refine that estimate or that quote, so that you can better prepare your clients for the cost and also have a business that doesn't just go backwards in money.
Oli Le Lievre 13:39
Yeah. Because it's very easy to do. Absolutely. One other question. A few months ago, I had someone come up to me and they were like all the unreal thing about the podcast, Ollie is that sometimes it's the only other voice I'll hear across the day, because people are working in paddocks by themselves fencing or whatever it might be. But for you, how have you approached managing your team? Because often, you won't see them for days, weeks? At a time, you could be in one side of the state, they could be in the other? How do you actually check in with them at a personal level, but actually from a business productivity level that you're managing the eight or so different stuff?
Speaker 2 14:15
Yeah, no, look into one that you've got to be careful because you never want to be that micro manager, right? Like, you know, as I said, when we employ we employ for that autonomy and that entrepreneurship spirit that they've got, there's no point doing that and then micromanaging them, you know, so that they don't do anything other than your with your approval. So the way that we generally do it is that I got this from the corporate world is, for instance, we just had an end of financial year party where we all kind of caught up and had a big lunch and we were all in the one spot for lunch like we carved out that time. We do the same thing for end of year. We look at different team events. We do a quarterly update as well where we'll all be in the one place at trying to bring people all the whole team together at set dates. I find really important and the team gets a lot out have that and the other one is regular catch up. So we dissect our team into what the different roles that they have within the business. So there's going to be, you know, your farm managers and farm staff. There's ones that are focused on management of adjustment and leasing, there's project teams, so we kind of cut them up, we did try to do wimps, where everyone was included, and it went on forever, no one really got much out of it. So then we've now chunk that down and going Rado, let's just talk about what's happening on the different farms that we're managing for clients. And that's that team, then let's go over to this team, we have that whip, but it's much more concise and much more structured around who's in the conversation. The other thing is, I don't think it can be rated more highly is understanding what is going on a little bit in your team's private life. So it might be that someone's kids sick, it might be that someone's going through a family issue that they've had to tell you about, because they've got to take leave or something like that, is just having that little bit of a check in to saying, Hey, I hope everything's okay. You know, one of the guys that his family started sale going on for his family heard, how's the start, sell go? What was your pricing? Do you get good interest, just those little things, which, you know, I have to jot down in my diary, because I'll forget. But those little things made a big difference. I think that you know, as someone that's trying to lead a team forward is that you think you care about that little stuff. I don't know if as you get a bigger and bigger business, that that's harder and harder to do. But I really try to make an effort to jot down some notes about what's happening with the different team members. And usually I get the same back, which is awesome. So I might say that I've got to be offline for the next two days, because I'm going to sip pina coladas with my bum in the sand somewhere, which doesn't really happen. But I'll come back and someone will say, you know, how were the cocktails or something like that. And we share that a lot. And the team does it with each other as well, which is really, really important. So that's a big one as well, I think it's not always about when I contact you, it's about work. It's about it's either a chat, or it could be about work. It's that whole sandwich complements synergies, you know, sometimes you start off with something off the cuff, and then it leads into the work portion, and then finish it off. So yeah, always trying to bring a bit more of a personal dynamic to a request or something.
Oli Le Lievre 17:14
And has it surprised you in terms of the amount of time it takes to actually really think and plan out those different aspects and spend the time being really conscious of your employees?
Speaker 2 17:25
Yeah, no, it takes a lot of time. But I think that that's the more and more that I go through it, the more and more that that is, the important part of time that's leading a business is I don't hire like I said, to tell people what to do, I have people that are either better at that thing than I am, or can do it more efficiently, or it fits a gap. And so my role I say, is just trying to get all those different components to work together as smoothly as possible. I obviously get it wrong. But when everything's going smoothly, and the work is kind of coming in and everything's getting done is it's you know, it's a real pleasure to run the business. There's always challenges like there is always, always challenges, always fires to put out. But it is a lot of work to make sure that you are keeping in touch with what the team is doing, especially in this remote world. Like you know what the team is doing where they are. That's another big one is that safety thing for me is, you know, we all work on a farming kind of platform. And you might be the only person that's out there on a job in the middle of Whirlpool, making sure that everyone knows where someone is. And we use Outlook calendars for that is that they've got their jotted down weeks ahead. So if someone calls me and says, Hey, so and so didn't come home tonight, I can figure out where they were meant to be, then go from there.
Oli Le Lievre 18:43
One final question on this. And I think it really ties into that team and taking them on the journey within the business as well. But for planning the strategy and the vision of where you guys want to go, and how do you manage that in terms of you're saying this is where we're trying to hit and this is how we're going to get there, but also knowing that you are a growing young business and can evolve really quickly.
Speaker 2 19:02
Yeah, that's another good question. Like complete transparency. The only way you're going to get to where you want it to be is if everyone knows the goal and you know, be open and be vulnerable in that. I think I've learned to be much more vulnerable through this process, usually money and finances and things like that you don't feel open to share. But I think the more you share about okay, here's what we did this year. This is our goals to set for this year coming. I don't think you get looked at as well. You know, you've earned so much money, because when you then break it down for them to go hey, so this is my little share here. And this is why I've got gray hairs coming up every day is because that part is the only part that actually matters is just being honest with how the business is going. Are you happy with it? Are they happy with it? Can we be doing something better? Are we inefficient somewhere like where's the beds? We talked about that program through zero going look? Yes, this local like on paper that it was a really good performer. But when we break down how much time was spent on it and resources, it actually was no better than the one we did across the road. So being transparent and taking the team on that journey really, really important.
Oli Le Lievre 20:15
Yeah, it's been really interesting. I've done that of light, I think, just to go, there's a reason we're trying to slog so hard at some of these different things. And also to these are our priorities, which is we know, these are the things that are working. And so over the next 612 months, this is what we're just going to focus in on. But this is what it actually takes at a very baseline, in order for us literally just to keep the doors open to try and achieve this. And it's bloody confronting hate, like you said, the word vulnerable, like it is confronting to go through that. Well,
Speaker 2 20:43
I mean, as you know, and most business owners know, is 90% plus of their life and their earnings and their income is within a business. So you're kind of almost going to everyone, here's my bank account, this is what it is, it is you got to be vulnerable. But the more I go through it, the more I realized that you can't pretend that you're the holder of those facts and figures and that everyone else's needs to do what you say, because you've got the knowledge, you've got to share it and hear and be vulnerable to it and let them ask questions like, generally, if the business is going really well, you also need to make sure that they get a benefit of that as well. Or if they can see that you're super stressed, like you said, super stressed and super hungry. And then they see the finances and go, ah shit. That's why because we're just keeping the lights on at the moment. And particularly in farming, right, like, understanding that in the good seasons. Yes, we made a lot of money and Okay, of that we're putting for the rainy day fund. But yeah, it's just letting them know how everything relates. And I think you get equity out of that you get better resourcefulness out of that as well, because they want to make sure like, instead of doing five round trips in a week, they might do three and that saves fuel and you know, all that kind of stuff
Oli Le Lievre 21:59
literally comes down to dollars and cents, massively. Beautiful. So that brings the first part of this two part interview with Mitch Hart to a close. Join us next week where we sit down with Mitch to understand what makes bull's eye different from other fund management businesses, how he's approached being a facilitator of conversations within his team in business to make sure that he can empower his staff that their voices are heard, but ultimately, that they're making decisions which are in the best interest of the business and their clients going forward. Mitch and I chat about his approach to outsourcing various aspects of the business and how this then allows them to focus on the areas which are their greatest strength. So join us next week for part two. This series is supported by the farm business Resilience Program through the Australian Government's future drought Fund, and the New South Wales Department of Primary Industries. And our aim is to sit down and chat with various people who have lived experience in business management, through their stories. It's our aim to share their learnings, their approaches, and how they have supported developing themselves, their businesses and their teams.
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