Chief Hope Officer AKA - Julia Jones

Oli Le Lievre 0:01 Welcome back to the humans of agriculture podcast. I'm your host Oli levy sitting down here in beautiful jilong, where it's always sunny 25 degrees, even in the middle of winter in cotton why? We're on watering country and I'm extending my respects and acknowledging the country that you're taking our podcast to, wherever that might be. If you do want to hit us up or find out more about where you guys are at, we'd love to know, send us a message on Instagram or Hello at humans of agriculture.com. Today we're crossing the ditch to Aotearoa I think I said that right, New Zealand. My next guest is someone I met Zanna McDonald's summit in Brazil earlier this year, she was a keynote speaker. And what blew me away about Julia was just her authenticity, and how she was able just to be yourself. It was frickin cool and might have developed a slight crush on her. AJ. Julia Jones has an extensive career in and around finance markets, sustainability, and agriculture. And what stood out to me for JJ, as I'm now allowed to call her because we're friends, is that she has held his kickass positions and has been able to be authentically herself. She's a straight shooter, saying it how it is. And I think that's something which has given her and grown her huge credibility across Australia and New Zealand and probably globally as well. It hasn't always been that way for her. So in today's chat, I wanted to know when and how did she actually develop this at times? Has it worked favorably for her or has it worked against it, and how she developed as a person in business as a leader? And where did she see the next big emerging opportunities and trends for agriculture over the next five to 10 years. So, strap in, let's go. This week, we've got an exciting guest all the way from across the ditch. Actually, God knows when we're gonna release this one, but we're recording it before the blood is low. And so there could be misery depending on how this goes anyway, either way, Julio Jones, although from New Zealand, it's not going to affect our relationship and our chat today. Welcome to the humans of agriculture podcast. Julia Jones 2:00 Hi, thanks for having me. Oli Le Lievre 2:01 Are you okay? If I call you JJ Julia Jones 2:02 you go for it. You go for you call me whatever you like. And you know, I'm that game. Whoever wins has to buy the other one a jersey jersey. Jesus. Like isn't a cardigan? I mean, isn't the rugby jersey from the team? Oli Le Lievre 2:14 Yeah, God from the series, what about the World Cup, but put it off a little bit help on cashflow. Julia Jones 2:20 And it's so that's so I don't know. What do you reckon is gonna happen on the World Cup though? Who do you reckon it's gonna come up? Oli Le Lievre 2:26 To be honest on like, AFL more than rugby these days? But I would say from watching the TV last year, Ireland were insane. So I'd say Ireland would be able to Julia Jones 2:36 Yeah, and they've got that real passion. I think they've got the step more, I don't know, as productive President play rugby every 30 seconds now. Wait, I mean, I think you'd lose. I don't know. It feels like the game is losing its heart and its passion. And that drive whereas I Oli Le Lievre 2:48 think you guys will like us, early 2000s. We had John eels, George Greg and Steve Larkin, Matthew Burke, like this golden year, then you guys came through with Richard McCord and Carter, etc. And once you've been at the top, something well, my from there, Julia Jones 3:03 I know. It's hard to find those real characters again, you know, those real people that just touch people's hearts. I mean, it's me. My parents were from Liverpool and lived in New Zealand, and they would loved most of the Australian players like mom could name every single one of them. Oli Le Lievre 3:18 Oh, that's good. So you What are you saying? You're like a semi Australian supporter or a fair weather supply? Julia Jones 3:23 No, not at all. Not at all. Actually, my brother lives in Sydney, and he's super sport mad like he's mental about sport. And he gets real torn. Like he just watches anything but so what he's always All Blacks, he is hardcore Kiwi supporter. Oli Le Lievre 3:36 Okay, okay, well, we'll avoid him. Tell me so. Where did you actually grew up? Your parents are from England. But you're a kiwi. Born and bred? Julia Jones 3:45 Yeah. So I'm the only one in the family born in New Zealand. So my mum and dad come over from Liverpool with my brother and sister and to New Zealand, that 10 pound palms, you know, that whole thing where they'd go out and say, Hey, come over. Then we went to Ross, which is I'm trying to think of a town that it would be like in Australia, there probably is nothing like it. But it's a tiny town on the west coast of the South Island. And it's about 100 people live there. And so it was a rural farming community used to be an old Goldmine back in the day. It was just such a cool place to grow up. We rode a horse to school because he went footpads like, crazy, man. It was just cool. It was a great spot. And so were you guys on a farm? No, no, we were around them. But I mean, Mom and Dad immigrated, so they weren't farmers in the UK. So their family thought we had a farm. I think we had like, one a cat or something like we have a little paddock and a little tiny house and my mom's family would write these letters saying, you know, it was amazing to see the pictures of your farm and we have one ram called Charlie. He's chased that truck is up the road. And we had a calf and a horse and like a gazillion chickens and ducks and whatever else I used to bring on, but on goats right. We had lots of goats as well. So it was just insane to the back to the people and youth in the UK and Liverpool. Totally thought we had farm. Oli Le Lievre 4:58 So this thing about one quirky named animals, but to just having an absolute Menagerie is something which you started as a child and it was just definitely followed you into your adulthood. Julia Jones 5:07 Oh, here's and they're all insane. I mean, I know well now I live in Eureka, which is basically 100 people. And around. I live in the middle of a whole lot of farms. And then I've got like, just under 18 acres, and I've got a menagerie of animals. I've got four insane horses and three cattle and one of them's about a ton and he thinks he's a dog. And it's just all it's just mental. Oli Le Lievre 5:29 We've got to preventing the give to these animals to make them so wild. Julia Jones 5:33 I don't know you know, what I think is I must baby them too much like they seem really needy, like, it's just like I got home one night from a speaking gig. I was about 10 o'clock and I was reversing into the carport and I seen in the camera the eyes like a set of eyes and they broken out and put themselves in the carport and I saw two on the lawn one was in the capital analysis like you know like you just see you're tired I just went and got like a big Bala Lucien Hey, and just like got them to go into some paddock and I thought I'd sort out in the morning but it's this like, oh, I don't know maybe it's because I like needy things. Maybe I'm needy so I've made them a bit needy or even what in the morning on the weekend I opened my curtains I'll be like, Oh God, I'm just give myself five minutes because then it's like knowing and naming and you know, like it's just Oli Le Lievre 6:20 it's always my bracket. Just hang on guys. So this is well depart and this is part of your jewelry, which just fascinates me because I first met you at this anime gold summit in Brisbane in March God was that four months ago something maths isn't strong point about that. And one year he just had this incredible energy. You had this amazing way of sharing stories you were friggin funny. Absolutely love that. But also to you have, which I've really drawn to it and fascinated by it and color keen to flesh out one this career which has spanned I guess, senior roles within KPMG in New Zealand, more recently in New Zealand Stock Exchange. But what fascinated me is you've been able to be uniquely yourself in these different roles present as yourself that still kick ass. And on understand how did that all come about? How has it shaped you? As well as where's this passion and interest in agriculture, sustainability? And I guess everything that's future focused conversations, etc. So who knows where this is gonna go? But I'm interested. You've always been this quirky, for sure, haven't you? Julia Jones 7:20 Yeah, yeah, definitely. Always caught. I'm sure if I was at school, now I'd be on they put me on some sort of drugs or something. I'm sure I'd be diagnosed with something. But I have tried. To be honest, it took me till probably 40 to feel really confident being myself, but or maybe in my mid 30s, to be confident being myself, but I think I have just always naturally been myself. And I don't know if that's been by design, I think it's just been literally, I don't know, undiagnosed rates can't keep it and I just kind of will be really open and honest about things. I'm direct, but not unkind. Oli Le Lievre 7:55 Interesting. So to your mid 30s, or early 40s, to actually bring this out, like, how did it actually come about? Was there a role change or something like that, that actually gave you the opportunity to express yourself, Julia Jones 8:05 I found what happened was because I was in currency for a while, and I loved it, like about 10 years. And I remember going for a leadership role. And I was a bit of it. And I just thought I was awesome. I just thought I was the best thing ever. And I just said, Hey, look, no one would work for you. Oh, four. And I was like, Wow. Um, but I'm amazing. Like, you know, if they have an issue with me, that's clearly the problem. And they were like, No, you can't lead teams. And so all credit to ASB, which is CBA. For you guys. They actually got me in a business coach, oh, come on, or life coach, and she was just in it. I think for me, and also one of my bosses gave me the Book Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. And you know that, but that helped me the most. And this is how bad I was. I literally read the book to begrudge him, I didn't read it to make a difference. I read it because I was going to show him that he was wrong. And that first chapter it talks about your at your own, your funeral is a eulogy, what do they say about you? And it was just something that clicked and I think the coach and the feedback is the thing that helped me realize that I was actually then I was I was just really high energy. I was great, having a few beers with him in on the weekends, but I was a nightmare to work with, you know, literally to the point where if I was out of the dealing room and someone else did a deal, I'd be like, well, I could have done more than made more than that. And you just did deck, you know, as a deck, basically. And then I think what happened was is I got coaches and feedback and reflection. And, you know, this is where you start to realize that you're not actually being the person you really want to be. And you're actually you don't like yourself, you know, you don't actually really enjoy that. Don't in the day feeling good about what you've said or done, especially when you're naturally a really caring kind person. And so I guess it was just a bit of an it sounds cheesy bit of a journey to just have confidence. And then like I did actually get into a leadership role when you're leading teams and you're leading people. That is the greatest honor, I believe that you can have. It's that and you've got to be really conscious about who you are. I don't believe a leader should make other people around them change to fit in with them. You've actually got to Be the person that they need. And so that means being really agile, being really empathetic and being direct and honest at the same time, so they know what's expected. Yeah. So I think it's just been a series of really interesting things that helped me stop being a dick. And he realized to be a good human is actually about being honest, open and taking feedback. And you know, I don't get it right all the time. I still fire up every now and then. But it's also very open to people challenging me and saying, hey, you know, you were a bit of a duck in owning it when I am. Oli Le Lievre 10:30 It's really interesting. One of our values is literally just the words be a good human. And someone asked me the other day said, what does that actually mean? And I was like, Well, I said, it's open for interpretation, but it's open for interpretation, because it means that there's then discussion. And so it is about being open, honest, acting with integrity. But if you think I'm not being a good human, well, then let's actually have a chat about it. And then it was like, Clash could lead us to being unstuck, then I was like, well, actually, it could if there's two people, but as a business, like we'd come together and work out if it came to that point of discussion. Okay, well, what actually has been good human, what are the characteristics of good humans in and around our workplace? And what does that look like? And then you'd be able to draw the parallels and go, Okay, well, who has been good human who's potentially out of line? Or who's got Yeah, challenges here? It's interesting. I want to know, so you got this strong finance and agriculture kind of cross sectional background? What did you study at university, Julia Jones 11:24 I actually didn't go to university I studied sorry, I didn't go to university. I just didn't finish it. I literally got unemployed into a dealing room because of my attitude. And because I was role like, I just wanted to do it. I was really driven. I was really staunch, I think II kind of needed that. Because the dealers were quite staunch, like, quite mean sometimes. And yeah, I did some study around business studies. So I did some papers. As I've gotten older, I've gone back and I've done like, I did a stint at the Harvard Business School. And I've gone and done a short, like a boot camp thing at Stanford University as well. So but yeah, the actual university side of it was business studies. But to be honest, I've just had to graft in the roles. Um, I don't suggest that for anyone, I think it makes it harder, and it makes your journey a bit slower. And I think does reduce your options. So I certainly wouldn't suggest that for anyone else. But if there is a pathway that people have taken, where they haven't gone to university, that doesn't mean that you can actually succeed and, and actually find roles within agriculture that are pretty awesome. And I just learned a lot like I just worked really hard in the dealing room. I don't think of myself as particularly smart. I don't, you know, people weren't seeking me out, split the atom at any point. And I think it's just about you know, I just learned, I just get on there and just try real hard. I was lucky, I was always around rural, cool people who had lots of smarts that I could learn from, and I always found a passion, like, I don't think I necessarily ever woke up one day and said, I'm going to do this, like, agriculture found me. And I've never left, like we've agriculture, and I've been married. And for 20 odd years, we didn't nearly get divorced last year when things got a little bit like broccoli, but it's just been in all my roles. If when I was in currency, I used to do currency for farmers. And then I was in rural banking. And I was obviously working with farmers and KPMG as we can farm as an entity. So I was working with farmers. And so it's always been in my world. And I'm really passionate about it. But it's always been around finance. And I'm not actually sure why that finance found me. Oli Le Lievre 13:21 Oh, no. before you got married to agriculture, what was the first encounter that drew you in sucked you in? Julia Jones 13:27 Yeah, no, it's actually was when I was in currency. I mean, obviously, I'd grown up in rural communities. So it wasn't foreign to me. But I'd had a chat bring me who was a beef farmer who wanted to hedge his currency. And we just had a blast. Like it was just cold. And there was something about it that I just, it was this person who was smart. And he knew exactly what he needed and what he was looking for. And he ran his really cool business. But then we had a big joke about staff and it was just a really comfortable, just a nice, and look, I was, you know, in my 20s, it was sometimes hard, you'd sort of get real, you know, the corporate guys would bring up, I wasn't cool, because I wasn't one of the cool guys that had been around for years that dealt with the big guys. And so, but this guy didn't care. He just thought I was like, he just wanted to have a yarn with somebody, he respected my views and what I did, and then sort of like the second real second date, was, um, I actually got asked to speak at a thing called the large hoods Conference, which you love this back in the day was like 350 cows on a dairy farm. And that's like, now everyone's like, oh, there's a hobby farm. And I literally talked about currency to a bunch of farmers because Fonterra were changing some of the things that they were doing. And I challenged some of frontiers, communication, whatnot, the currency stuff. And yeah, that was kind of my second date. And from there, we basically moved on together and got married the next day, and that was I've never looked at him since Oli Le Lievre 14:42 not even little things on the light. No, not Julia Jones 14:45 at all. Not at all. I mean, I've you know, I've had that the other sector every now and then we've had a little bit of you know, I've given a week to the thinking, oh, yeah, maybe I just go into some sort of corporate line, but it's always lead to agriculture, you know, Oli Le Lievre 14:58 and so your involvement is really kind of ugly. have grown from there as a keynote speaker, but the way that you can provide these insights in ways that really anyone, including me can understand is such a unique trait that you've got. Julia Jones 15:10 I think it's because I need to simplify things for me to understand. And I need to have it as a story. It's sort of like my brain works. And like, I see a storyboard. And I need to break things down. And I think for me, the one thing I'd say, though, with the keynote speaking is I've, it's come from 20 years of working across the sector. And I sometimes get people say, Well, how did you become a keynote speaker? How do I do that? And I think if you're 20, and you haven't actually done lots of jobs, and you haven't actually built a background and got some core competency, it's really hard to develop actually got nothing to speak about. Because often you're speaking about anecdotal things that have happened in your life over time. And that happen, but yeah, for me, it's really important. I think one of my biggest frustrations for every job that I've had is there's always someone who wants to make something sound really complicated. So they sound better. And we're seeing it now. And sustainability, there's a whole lot of confusing conversations and sustainability, that just blow it out of proportion, turn it into something that's not in the Netsky, zebra, but is any value and scaring people. I think everyone we don't know, till we know, we don't know, till we learn. And if we mystify everything and make it harder than it needs to be, then we have less people that are learning and we have less people on the journey with us working on it. And I just think it just doesn't add any value. And it's just, I just love it. I love being able to take and take all complex things, and simplify them. Because I don't necessarily understand everything, but I'll spend time learning and picking people's brains and kind of going back to them with does it mean this? And does it mean that and it's just yeah, it's just I don't know, I guess it's my way magic power. Hopefully. Oli Le Lievre 16:40 Yeah, that will definitely because, like, I know, I use way too many words, asking questions, explaining things, way too many words. And it is honestly, like, the more simple that someone can articulate something, the smarter they are. Oh, I Julia Jones 16:53 think it takes a big journey, though. Like, it's amazing. All right, now I had a call about something, and I'll write it seven times, because all right, then you're not explaining everything, it was a Tuesday, and I was wearing a blue shirt there. You know, just to explain something really simple. And then it just takes usually, my original messages quite complicated or long. And then over time, the more I get to understand them, and the more I talk to others about them, then they become more distilled. And I can get them down to a much quicker, simpler sentence. I do love words. And I will use lots of them Oli Le Lievre 17:27 all day to only flesh into your career a little bit more. Has your career been a series of deliberate decisions? Or have they been things that happen by chance, and you kind of just followed it? Julia Jones 17:37 I think it's a bit of both, you know, when I left the dealing room, that was a really conscious decision, I love the environment as high energy you learn a lot, just great people around you slightly mentor, which I really found quite awesome. The thing was, though, as I looked at, I actually changed beings. And I was away from one being five years. And I went back to it. And I remember the moment where there were guys sitting next to each other who sat next to each other five years earlier, complaining about the same things that they complained about five years before, and I was like, I gotta get out like this is just going to be and I rang rural banking, the managing director at the time of National Bank, and I said, I want to be a regional manager and rural banking. And he said, All there's no chance you have none of the skills that we want. And I said, Okay, that's all right then. And so it literally went like Charlie was a man of very few words, well, as a man of very few words. And in to be fair to him, he did say, he said, Look, if you want to be a role manager, and I was like, Look, I'm you know, at the time, you know, you always think you're a lot older than Yeah, at the time, I think I was duty. And I was like, Well, you know, I don't have time, I don't want to be a role manager, Owner, bum and get into the regional manager and leadership staff. And yeah, and I applied for seven roles, and I got turned down for six. So that was very deliberate. I knew exactly where I wanted to go. And what I wanted to get into, like, I knew that was a real deliberate move. KPMG wasn't like that was literally just pure universe, delivering something freakin awesome that I didn't I needed, you know, I got made redundant from rural banking. I mean, you know, it happens. And I was talking to a recruiter about how to go for a job, because I'd like basically always been in the bank, and I really had to ever really go for a job. And we were talking to her, and she has asked me what I liked doing. And she was like, I've got the perfect role for you. And I was like, Are you thinking of this? And he said, KPMG and was like, Oh, I don't want to go to an accounting firm. She's like, No, no, it doesn't. They're this big. And I didn't even understand what KPMG was. And, and then yeah, and then it just went from there. And so, so that was an accidental, I guess serendipitous excerpt. Although I guess this was serendipity years, but a serendipitous move, and an index of probably a little bit more deliberate. And then now I'm back in a serendipitous world where I'm, I don't know self employed. I'm calling myself at the moment. I appointed myself as chief hope Officer, Chief, I hope chief hope officer, who you're giving hope to anyone you know, like, I think it's just we need to reinstate hope. I mean, not isn't. It's not like the secret but it's not like you either and imagine things and then they happen, that kind of hope. I think it's just, we need to remind people that they are capable of navigating really gnarly situations, and particularly our farming communities, regardless of what country were their own. This is not our first rodeo. This is not the hardest thing anyone's ever seen. And I think we are way more capable than we give ourselves credit credit for. That's my goal. bring hope back. Oli Le Lievre 20:22 That's cool. Tell me I want to know on that, having to react to decisions that are completely out of your control. I think you just mentioned that their regional bank, then also more recently, your time with index finished up after four odd years with them. But how did you react? And how do you overcome those really life changing decisions that you actually have zero control over? Julia Jones 20:42 Yeah, I mean, with both I've had teams that have been involved in I work really hard to look after my teams. And so I think it may be I use it as a distraction technique, but I tend to make sure they're okay, first, before I have a little meltdown, I don't wake up in the morning, you know, hearing birds singing and stuff, I can get up, and I can be really down about it and get really upset. But look, it's, uh, you know, not wanting to be too dramatic. But you know, I had a reasonably dysfunctional kind of upbringing and a functional nice way and had a lot of love and told that I was capable of anything. But you know, my parents struggled a lot through financial, alcoholism, things like that. And I think that's kind of cool. Like, there's something like, I know, that sounds terrible. But it was just a way that I grew up with lots of false change, things that happened that were really shit that I didn't like and didn't want. But I learned really quickly that I could fight them. And I think having parents that fought, like they were constantly fighting change, they were constantly fighting the inevitable, they never had anything left in the tank to actually deal with the change. And so I think when I, you know, I feel sad, and I feel upset when I get hit with these things in your both redundancies kind of hard for me, but I think at the end of the day, you sit there and go, Okay, what needs to be done? And your first triage? So you're like, Who do I need to worry about? What do I need to do? You know, you look at your financial situation, you look at all these things, and you just get on with it. Like, you can't change it. I'm not saying it's expect anything in the world that happens to you, but there's so many things that are going to happen that are gonna get forced upon you, and you just cannot spin waste energy fighting, the inevitable change that happens. Oli Le Lievre 22:15 So when those things happen, and I'm interested on on the team side of things, did you first go, okay, shit, I need to actually get myself sorted here, did you go straight to the team going? Okay, this has happened me to help the team cope through it, Julia Jones 22:28 both times, it's been about the team. So it's been, you know, for example, within GDX, you know, I was actually in the office and Wellington, I got told. And I had to go back into an office where I couldn't tell anyone, and I just had a bomb dropped. Now, I could have easily gone back and being a bit of birch or whatever, or salt, but you know, at the end of the day, and look, I'm not trying to say I'm like, freaking perfect, by the way, because then my head on, like, my wheels are spinning, but I kind of stopped and thought, it's not actually everyone else's fault. And it's not everyone else's problem. And I'm not leading, if I'm creating discomfort and everyone else to support my own needs. And again, you know, takes a while to get there. And even with ANZ that was I had a huge team that you know, and again, it was a big process so that I couldn't go out and tell the team, I had to wait, you know, it was a week, I think until we told the team so you know, you kind of got to be really clear about what you're doing and how you're doing. And I had sort of 27 or eight people on my team at the time. So in we had business to do and we had and you know, same with the internet, you still got business to do. You still got things to get done. And we're really commercial person. So you know, you can't let your own craziness hits you overtake it. But it's also I talked to people, you know, I'm really lucky. I'm a talker. So I will ring someone and say, Oh my God, this has happened, I feel terrible. What am I gonna do? I'm gonna flap. And then by the time I've ended the phone call, I mean, they probably feel terrible, but I feel a lot better. And I think in that context, it's been able to process that. But what I never did was process that with my team. Like it was never right for me to have a conversation and say I feel sad or upset, or I wasn't dishonest. I didn't tell them. I felt that it was great and amazing. But I would tell them that I'm dealing with it. And I'm okay. And I just I think it was the reassurance that I'm fine that they needed to think about themselves. Oli Le Lievre 24:11 I'm really interested of your career, how and the the quote you said before about the leader needs to be the person that your team need. And you need to be direct and honest when needed. So how did that actually come about for you? And were the people that you potentially modeled yourself off the good examples. bad examples are somewhere in between. You're probably really Julia Jones 24:29 good examples. I've been really lucky with the leaders I've had around. I think some of them have been terrible, and you learn from terrible leaders as well. There was a guy, he was a CEO of ASB and a guy, Hugh Barrett, and he was just such a cool leader. You know, he knew people's names. He was really charismatic, but not mommy or that. You know, he just I think he had a saying that every day is show day. So basically the idea was, you know, every day turned up every day turn off and be I remember going to him one day and saying I want to be a CEO by the time I'm 40 and he said then you need to Get out of the dealing room because that's not going to be the pathway that's going to take you anywhere and it wouldn't have been, you know, you, it's great, but you stay in there and you'd never get out. And so those sorts of leaders around me, I think I've watched some of the leaders in rural banking, who were just they created these awesome environments. They had these great teams, sometimes they were really hard nosed, they weren't always the fluffy people. But it was what I learned as leadership wasn't about unkind and loving. It was actually about being honest and supportive. And so you can actually be grumpy, like some of the grumpiest, oldest dudes around in rural banking, were the best best leaders, you knew where you stood, you know what they expected from you. And they were the first to tell you, you've done a good job, and you've done a good job. And so leading from that, but yeah, I think that's probably about it as around the teams as just making sure and not getting it wrong, too. Like I you know, I got a team, keeping in mind, I applied for seven jobs and got turned down for six. So when they'd had finally given me one, they gave it to me, because they needed a woman, I sorry, I kind of, you know, got the job for the wrong reasons. And I was really conscious of that, like my worry, I rang my sister Haley, and I was crying, and I was like, gotta go to give me a job because I'm a woman. Isn't that funny? No, you really want a job, and then you get it, and then you're upset. And so I and she just said to me, it doesn't matter why you got it. It's what you do with it now. And I think for me, it was about making sure that I represented anyone that would come after me. And because I was the first woman to be appointed onto one of these roles. But I was pretty green, I hadn't actually led a team before I hadn't led a lien to dollar before in the GFC was pending. So you know, this was a few want to have baptism by fire. There were flames raging off me. And so I think some of my leadership came, my skills came from getting things wrong in the first couple of years. But I adapted really fast I had a coach that I used, that was one of the dusty old sea dogs out of rural banking. There had been there, done that. And I used reflection tools with him. And I would talk through my day. And he would say, Look, you know, you might want to think about this. So it was it was really about surrounding myself with people who can help me you never going to learn alone? Oli Le Lievre 27:01 How much time do you reckon like when you've been managing this? And how much time would you say it actually, you were dedicating and spending on reflecting thinking about team things, working with people in your team, Julia Jones 27:12 all the time, at the end of every day, it would literally be and sometimes it would be, I don't want this day to end because it's just been one of those moments where you're sitting there and you know, would help a farmer do something amazing, you know, you're helping the sector, you've got your team really humming. And then you got other days where, during the GFC, we had several people off on stress leave, and I'm talking seasoned rural bankers that had seen at all under extreme stress. And those are the times when you really reflect on what are you doing right? What are you doing wrong? How do you need to change it? You know, the person you upset to send a group email out saying they're great, and they don't want to have group recognition, they want it to be quiet and just eat us learn, right? Your reflection is daily, because you either have a great moment or a bad moment, and you have to consciously stop and think what could I have done better? Or what could I have done differently? Oli Le Lievre 28:01 And so a question maybe a little bit of advice. Lots of younger people, I guess, who are starting to manage people might only be a couple of people on say, a family farm in agribusiness, that might be a really growing team, what's your advice to them about stepping into that management space and starting their own journey of managing leading people in a business context? Julia Jones 28:20 Oh, that's a tough one, you know, be prepared to get it wrong. But be prepared to own the wrong, you know, if you do cocked up, you go off at someone because you're a bit tired or whatever, then then own it and apologize, but also understand why you did it and don't do it again, you know, actually evolve and learn, get help from people around you, you know, so there would have been someone in their life that would have been an awesome leader, go and ask them even if you catch up with them every six weeks for a coffee, just to have a chat and or on the phone or whatever, just to talk about it. But just think about it is an honor to lead people don't think of it as if you don't like leading people, please don't lead them, like get a job that you don't need to or get someone to do it for you. Because I really think that it's everyone has the right to be laid in a great way and read stuff, you know, read leadership books in any order to be super cheesy about it. That's you know, but I read a couple of things a Simon Sinek or whatever, you know, your industry bodies. So like I know, dairy and Zealand, New Zealand has so much HR support, like right the way through to, hey, you run a review how you do management meetings, you know, with your farm managers, all these things. So, actually get these resources in actually don't try and tough it out. And you know, just remember if you think everyone that you hire as a deck, you're the only common denominator like that, you know, that's if you're constantly hiring decks, there's something wrong with you, not the people you're hiring. And we've all heard that right. We've always heard I keep hiring idiots or you know, that's Oli Le Lievre 29:43 not the thing. Oh, well, I want to like start to move I guess a little bit down the sustainability where the world's heading etc. But I really love on it on your LinkedIn bio, but you say you're never really living in the moment but always being excited about the future and what it drives. So is that something you're starting to get better at? slowing down being in the moment? Are you constantly chasing this thing off in the distance? Julia Jones 30:04 I think I don't know, if I'm slowing down, I think some days I want to, but I've always kind of been. And I don't want to sound like I'm not like Nostradamus, I can't see the future. But I tend to hook into themes that are emerging globally that no one else is interested in at the time. And then once the really cool, I get bored with them. So KPMG added about six years of research on alternative proteins. Now, that was a real way to wind people up at the time, you know, I couldn't eat them or anything. It wasn't that I was trying to consume them. I just wanted to understand, like, you can't help a farmer understand what's happening, and how to best grow what any kind of disruptors that are coming at them, if you don't understand it yourself. So I think for me, it was really just about learning as much as I could about it. And I was just curious about it, you know, and then sustainability, same thing, you know, this thing around climate and carbon. And we're kind of lucky enough, because we've really been talking about sustainability for about 20 years, we just didn't know it was called sustainability. And then when ESG came through us, I cheese, what's this thing? So I had to google that find out what it was. And then I thought, Well, this looks pretty cool. You know, this is, and so I just started talking to people, and I went and researched and I went, and I'm a stalker, like oldest go stalk, someone, I'll just be like, Hey, I just seen you're on bird. You know, sometimes people don't respond, sometimes I don't. And you just have a conversation with them, and you want to learn about it. And so I think I've always enjoyed a theme that isn't cool yet. And I want to learn as much as I can about it. And then when you've run out as unto on that need the next thing. Oli Le Lievre 31:28 So what are some of those themes that you're the occupying you guys now? Yeah. Who used to walking in? What are they talking about? Julia Jones 31:34 Oh, so biodiversity is a big thing at the moment. I don't know if that's, I mean, look, don't get me wrong. I'm not a major futurist. So I usually I'm five years out, or 10. I'm not a 50 years out guard kind of gal. But biodiversity is a massive thing. That's a conversation that's growing globally, I went and did a bit of a study tour last year. And when I met with BlackRock, or a big investment firm in New York, and in San Francisco, I met them at both spots, and biodiversity again, as their and I think, when you think of farming, this is our superpower, biodiversity is our superpower, because we would have to farm to nature, otherwise, we don't get to farm anymore. And it's the biodiversity conversation needs to grow. I think, as a farming community globally, we need to own the narrative and that and make sure that we're not assigned one, we actually need to step up. And I think we're very humble in agriculture. And we don't tend to necessarily, we either have tractors up the steps, or we say nothing. And I think we need to find the middle ground. And we need to be really that biodiversity talk, because massive, that's freaking exciting. That'll be the next thing that comes to us, you know, what I love about it as climate, you know, climate is important. But I think some of the climate and carbon conversation becomes very narrow. So we have unconsidered consequences. So we can't put trees in the mirror, we kind of see I call it carbon Catholicism, you know, you basically sun and then you repent, and it's just there's no change in behavior. And that was never the way it was meant to be. Right? We were never meant to have that kind of it was meant to change behavior. But when you look at biodiversity, you know, it takes some water and it takes some community, it takes some culture, it takes on all these incredible things. And all of a sudden, you start to fix some of the climate issues, and you actually start to handle the carbon space. So I think that's a bigger, better, more positive and more effective conversation then being really narrow and that carbon conversation. Well, it Oli Le Lievre 33:21 makes it more holistic, doesn't it? Because we're carbon, we're literally black and white, there is more going out versus going in whatever it might be. Whereas biodiversity is the challenge of the hugely complex touches everything, but it also allows you to go Okay, so we're going to do x over here, but then that's going to affect why, how does that then affect the picture that we're creating? Interesting. Julia Jones 33:42 It's bringing everything together. It's bringing species, it's bringing culture, it's bringing everything into it, you know, this land that we live on, look, I have such a small piece of land. But you know, two weeks ago, when underwater, we had so much rain, I literally had to like hear that was the most confronting and surreal experience I've ever had to wake up and open my curtains and literally just see a body of water. But you know, when you go through this new experience, and you touch and feel land, you actually start to appreciate the species, and the connection that we all require and the soil and all these things. And it's not just one thing, there's never going to be one magic bullet or solution. It's going to be a series of events or series of things that are going to work together. And that's what I love about biodiversity. Oli Le Lievre 34:23 certainly interesting. And it's so intertwined with ag anything else in this crystal ball. Julia Jones 34:28 It's crystal ball thing. That's one I think there's some reset coming and I don't know if it's a social reset or a financial reset like something I think there's an apocalypse don't get me wrong, I'm not thinking you know, there's not a catastrophizing things. I just feel like how we see economics is gonna change. And you know, everyone hates GDP is a measure, but nobody's come up with a better measure. So people keep coming out and happiness measures and all these things. The end of the day, even happiness, cost money, right? They were going to pay for love. So you know, I just think that how we see economics is going to have to shift because it's going to have to take into account In our environment, our people, how people live our communities, we've got a lot around the world is kind of an uprising. And how do we actually address that? And how do we support our communities? How do we make sure our vulnerable and looked after Oli Le Lievre 35:14 it's interesting was It was mentioned that GDP thing, or someone else mentioned, it might have even been an Australian, like demographer type person talking about it and asking like, Well, why are we actually using it as a metric? Because all it's doing is measuring one little thing, as opposed to the health and status of society. Julia Jones 35:32 And we're measuring growth, what we're saying is, hell yeah, grow, man use more, use more, use more, and I think this kind of as degrowth that's probably another thing coming through this degrowth like, how do we maintain relevance and prosperity while D growing, you know, like, we actually have to kind of shrink ourselves to success. Oli Le Lievre 35:50 So question, what's making you optimistic about the future, especially in and around agriculture, maybe its food, Julia Jones 35:55 its nutrition, its micronutrients. That's our life. It's our life body. It's the thing that keeps us ticking, you know, some of those micronutrients, you can't get in anything else. And so I think it's the passion of the people when it's there, like, I've got this hilarious photo that I show in New Zealander, this guy, Chris Lewis, and I got one of his cattle from his dairy cows, right. And there's someone then Photoshop him on the top of that, like Putin, you know, like shirtless. On the end, you know, like, it's that stuff. It's the fact that when I actually left on my gates open, and it was over 600 bales of hay cat there. And I've seen an SOS out to a couple of mates and they turn up and there's one of the guys wife swearing at me telling me how much she hates me right now, because they want to go away on holiday, but they're there with the trailer and the 10 year olds drive in the US, and we're picking up hay. And that's what keeps me passionate about agriculture, because we never ever lose our ability to actually get up the next day and care about each other and care about animals. And I think that's what we don't show the world. I think that's one of those things that we don't often show the world and honest, super positive about, we got cool young people who are desperate to get into the sector that can't wait to get in and make a difference. And they want to be exciting. And they want to use technology, and they want to do the right thing financially, and they want to bring everyone on board with it. And they just think great with social media, and they're great with storytelling. And again, we've been through this before, we've been through tough times. And if we resurrected our women, our forefathers, I'm sure they'd tell us a few tales of woe and the future is massive, and it's so bright, but it's gonna be hard. Because life side, it's not an Instagram post, there's no filter on it. Unfortunately, we actually are just gonna have to go through a bit of a journey and there's gonna be ups and there's gonna be downs, I'm gonna grow the most on the downs. Oli Le Lievre 37:37 And sometimes, like an Instagram party, do you use your page reflect the real world? Or is it just the good parts? Julia Jones 37:43 Well, I actually was so bad with Instagram, I got kicked off, not because I did anything wrong. I just put my the wrong agent. I wasn't paying attention to it. And then I can't wait to get back on. But My Little Pony isn't Instagram page and Lane shack, New Zealand. So he's got that. And I think on LinkedIn, my page definitely reflects reality. Like I'm pretty roar on there. Oli Le Lievre 38:02 I love that post it put up the other day, was it sorry about your emceeing? It was the first time that you ever got to stand on stage and talk. It was something I recovered a bit also about six Julia Jones 38:12 years, right? It was really funny because I hadn't read it all. That's right. Everybody wants to have more ain't good six. And I was like, oh, geez, I'm gonna have to read this out. And I was so but it was great. You know, it was I got through it. I'm quite immature. So inside, I was like, let's say six months, sage. Oli Le Lievre 38:28 Oh, well, I can't wait to see you around at another ag event here in Australia. So a few questions to finish off, JJ. Okay. First one, is this something that you're trying to overcome? Address? Whatever it might be today that you could use humans of agriculture's help? Probably not my Ryan, but just humans of agriculture. Yeah, I Julia Jones 38:45 think it's bringing that self belief back to our farmers to remind them that no matter what challenges are here, because there was going to be a lot of things that we don't know what coming at us yet. And there's a lot of uncertainty, but to actually just focus on what you can control today. Stop worrying about what you can't control and have the wisdom to know the difference. And I think it's really you know, that would be a big part of us. We got this we can do this. It is hard. It's a bit exhausting. Also, maybe those people who don't think they can do it anymore, and it's not for them anymore as actually allow them to exit with beautiful pride and dignity. Oli Le Lievre 39:20 I love that. So much of it is mindset isn't energy, this shift of science and social shift, but we really started to see it infiltrate the areas of sport you ash bodies, you're doing all courts, the who they are as different to what they do. And I think it's the same. I think it was slowly Well, actually, no, we haven't even started to see it into agriculture. I think that natural evolution, but I do love that allowing people to exit with dignity. That's cool. Now this one, I'm fascinated to hear what you say he if you get the chance to head down now actually, you can come over here to Australia. You get the chance to go and chat to 10 students in a metro area have no idea about agriculture. What would you say to them about what they should consider a career in it? Julia Jones 39:57 Oh, that three things for them. One no matter what you want Do we've got it for you in agriculture. So if you want to be in tip, data marketing, even capital markets, finance, banking, farming, genetics, science, we have got a role for you no matter what I'd say also, don't limit yourself to a title don't get stuck on a title. Because I think in agriculture, the cool thing is there's so much evolving, that there are roles that don't exist today, that will be around in 234 years. So don't limit themselves when they're thinking about a future. Don't say I want to be a fireman, or, you know, whatever. I mean, unless you really want to be a fireman. But I mean, if you're thinking of, I'm not sure, then don't necessarily limit it to a title. Don't get hung up on it. And don't think you have to stay forever in an industry. There's so much power and cross pollination, there's so much power and bringing someone that's been in tech, out of tech and to egg and that was one of the good things about COVID as some people may sorry, to the people who've lost their jobs and stuff, but some people came out of roles. You know, we had pilots on farms, and we had all these things and this interesting intersection of information and knowledge. And I think that simple messages, there is something for everyone. It doesn't matter what you want to do. And you will not work in a more rewarding coal fun, insane, frustrating, just mean toe just progressive, fast paced environment than agriculture. So there's no way you can't find something you'd want to do an egg. Oli Le Lievre 41:21 Love it. What's a question you've got for a future guest? Julia Jones 41:24 I would ask what their greatest wish for agriculture's. Oli Le Lievre 41:28 Can I ask you that? Julia Jones 41:29 You can ask me a Oli Le Lievre 41:30 bowl ask a future guest as well. But I'd be interested What's your wish? Julia Jones 41:34 Ah, Jesus just didn't think that went through that. I think my greatest wish is that an agriculture we again get focused on the things that we can control, we're distracted, we've become really political, politics, politics, leave it to the politicians, see no regular, a lot of regulation that's coming through as a symptom of societal change. Let's not get hung up fighting the things that we can't touch. I don't mean that we shouldn't stick up for ourselves. And I don't mean that we shouldn't push back. I just think we've become so politicized my greatest wish is that we get back to being having pride and hope for the future. And actually just focusing on what we can control. And being the people that we are, which is about community, which is about making things great, which is growing things, whether it be growing a cow, or maybe next year or next 10 years, we're growing something else, as long as we connect to our land, and our people in our community and our family, my greatest wishes that we get back to why remembering why we're doing this, and stop getting hung up and distracted by stuff that is just irrelevant. Leave the politics of the politicians, they're going to play whatever games they want to play, and they're going to say whatever they got to say they're going to do whatever they want to do. If you want to be a politician. Go be one. Don't bring it into farming. Oli Le Lievre 42:46 You could do it in agriculture. Minister for Agriculture. Yeah. Julia Jones 42:50 I think it'd be too crazy. I wouldn't mind working for the minister and getting some shut down. But, Sam, I didn't know I'd want to be the minister. Oli Le Lievre 42:57 Well, yeah, we unfortunately won't see you when you come across this way, to Geelong in a few weeks. But I wish we were, but can't wait to see what happens is the chief hub officer, and what's next for you? And yeah, I'm looking forward to sharing this episode with everyone. Is there anything else you wanna add? Julia Jones 43:14 No, I'm excited to come into Australia. And I'm hoping to do more trips. I'm back in October as well for the National Farmers Federation, if I said that right. conference as well. And Kimbra. So yeah, I love Australian farming. I just think he's just, you know, when I think of Australia, I just think of it's biblical, you know, so it's very biblical. That should come Oli Le Lievre 43:35 over here. Move on. Julia Jones 43:36 I know. I need to get over more. Mark Ferguson, his told me that he'll take me to the Outback somewhere, I need to ride a horse. So that's pretty good. I mean, I don't know if he's been serious, but I'm gonna hold him to it. Oli Le Lievre 43:48 Yeah, no, he said it now. And it's on the record at some podcasts. I bet like Mark Ferguson. Well, thank you, JJ, for that. Julia Jones 43:56 Thanks for having me. Oli Le Lievre 43:58 Well, that's it for another episode from us here at humans of agriculture. We hope you're enjoying these podcasts. And well, if you're not, let us know. Hit us up at Hello at humans of agriculture.com. Get in touch with any guest recommendations topics, or things you'd like us to talk and get curious about. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. Right subscribe, review it. Any feedback is absolutely awesome. And we really do welcome it. So look after yourselves. Stay safe. stay sane. We'll see you next time. Transcribed by https://otter.ai