One of the things I loved most about New York is how people use the space. I once peeked into this tiny art studio on Avenue A that had been turned into a drive in theater. Someone just pulled a car into it, and for a price, you could sit inside that car and watch a movie on the wall. It was ridiculous. But that's not the only example. My favorite museum of the city is in this tiny freight elevator shaft. I've been to book signings and drinks in cemeteries,
inside mausoleums. I've seen an apartment with a drawbridge in it, honest to God, like a drawbridge that the tenant built so he could lower it and crawl from this tiny platform on one side to his loft on the other side. But what I'm really trying to say is that despite the lack of space in the city, people come up with insanely ingenious ideas. So I've been curious, how do people really garden in the city, because this is not
the suburbs. When you've only got a balcony, or, let's be honest, a fire escape that you call a balcony, how are you supposed to build the garden of your dreams. I think you have a pretty good sense of my gardening ambitions by now. I am not trying to live off the fat of the land, but I would like to use the space I have to I don't know, create some life and and then put that life into
a salad. And I want to use this hobby to connect with the earth, because while the rest of the world is looking up, dazzled by our cities skyscrapers, there's this whole beautiful ecosystem here growing at our feet. Hey there, I'm monga fatigular co host of Part Time Genius, one of the co founders of Mental Flaws, and this is Humans Growing Stuff, a collaboration from my Heart Radio and
your friends at Miracle Grow. My goal is to make this the most human show about plants you'll ever listen to, and along the way, we'll share inspiring stories, tips and tricks to nurture your plant addiction, and just enough science to make you sound like an expert. This episode is for the city dwellers, all of you out there with very little time on your hands and even less space in your homes. All you need is a little dedications,
some creativity, and less square footage than you think. Today's episode is Me and the City Garden, Chapter three, Bright Lights, Big Snake Plant. In the last few weeks, we've acquired a lot of new roommates, and it's great. For the most part. I have all these new plant friends to keep me company in the living room, joining me when I edit or read or watch TV, and seeing all that green it genuinely makes me happy. But I'm also noticing it's getting a little cramped in here, and I
am constantly shuffling my plants around. So it's turned me into this weird plant real estate agent. Like every day I'm showing different areas to the plants and taking them on walkthroughs and trying to sell them on a particular window because it will be such a good fit for them and their kids. Because yes, I am talking to my plants now and trying to find them the perfect home within my home. But as I run out of obvious locations in this apartment, I'm trying to figure out
what else is possible. How can I maximize my space and feed this new plant addiction. So I called up our friend Anna from the Instagram account and YouTube channel plant Anna Plant, and it's got over a hundred plants crammed into her beautiful apartment in Toronto, and I'm hoping she can help us pull back this big green curtain of possibilities. Hyanna. First things first, tell me how did
you fall in love with plants? Growing up? I always had a backyard, and my parents always took amazing care of all of our gardens and all of the plants and everything. And then I had an opportunity to do part of my PhD in Australia, so I moved to Sydney for a little while, and living there, they don't have winters like we have in Canada, so that meant that I was around plants all the time. And once I finished I moved back to Canada, I realized that life seemed a little bit different when I was no
longer surrounded constantly by plants. And I bought four little succulents in May of and that for little succulent planter all of a sudden turned into twenty and then thirty and then forty, and then next thing you know, we had over a hundred plants. I just I felt so much better. It was one of those things where being surrounded by greenery and bringing all the plants inside was just an amazing thing. I end up that's have been this like major distraction from the pandemic for for a
lot of people. But I'm curious for you, what are the joys of sort of being in an indoor jungle? It just it makes me happier. And with doing a PhD two, a lot of the work is done alone, particularly like with data analysis and writing and everything. And I always felt so much better sitting among all of my plants in the one particular area where we have a lot of them, and it just I found it calmed me. It made me feel more grounded. And also it would give me a little break if I wanted
to care for my plants at all. Um So, yeah, so just being around them definitely made me a lot happier. Let's get into growing in a small apartment. What do you think is the the easiest way to start growing? We actually have to think where is my plant going, what are the conditions there, and what plants will thrive or at least do decently well in those type of conditions. People will at succulents and they'll say that they kill
all the succulents all the time. But then when you find out where they are, they have them in a hallway that has no natural light, or they're in the middle of their dining room table that has very very little light. You really need to think about like the actual conditions of the spot where you want to put a plant, and then kind of work backward from that.
I like to think about it that way. Um, for for let's say a bathroom where there's a lot of humidity but maybe less direct sunlight, do you have some suggestions for for your favorite things to put in there? If if you have humidity, then you would want some type of tropical plant. Sometimes people think that cacti and succulents will want humidity, but they don't because they're they actually originate in the desert where there's very little or
no humidity at all. So for places where there is humidity, thinking not only just the bathroom, but also a kitchen too, because our kitchens actually have a lot of humidity in them. So something like a pathos is a really good plant to put in there because they can they can handle the humidity, they can handle lower light, and they don't need as much care like the not considered a high maintenance plant. So Apothos is one of those plants that
tends to be underwhelming to some people. People don't necessarily love them, but they are a really great plant because they grow fast. You can trail them along the wall with particular hooks that you can get, they can hang down, they can go in the shower with you. Talk to me about these moss balls or Marimo moss balls. They're
so cute. Yeah, and oh gosh, Okay, so that is a story and a half, which So I was in Calgary for work and I saw them, So the Marmo moss balls, which are actually not moss, they're actually lge and I saw them at a really cute plant store and I decided I was going to buy them. But they need to be in water, and they specifically need to be in tap water because they feed off of whatever is in tap water. So, as we all know,
we're not allowed to fly with liquids. Right. So I'm in the Calgary airport with my partner and I had them in a little bag. I had them in water, and right before going through security, I had to dump all the water out and they're in this classic bag. I was bringing home more plants than just that, so my carry on was full of suck. I've got a
box in my lap and I've got these. The security person when they're running everything through that little X ray machine is, excuse me, there's something in there that I need to take a look at. So she opens my bag, she pulls them out. She said, what the heck are these?
So I explained to her she did not care about plants at all, which is completely But then once we got through security, we then had to refill the the bag with water and then I just sit with my marmal moss balls in a bag of water with the succulents on my lap from Calgary to Toronto. When you go to new cities and new regions, are are are you looking for plants to add to your collections? Chances are, if I've been traveling within Canada, there is a plant
or five in there. How are you making time to water all these plants appropriately? And and and fit in the the plant care into your life? And and also do you speak to your plants? It's not that plants react to your voice. What the research actually shows is that people who talk to their plants tend to be more involved in their care. So it's not actually the talking that impacts the plants. It's the fact that because you're talking to your plants, it shows that you're interacting
with the more. So you're going to notice things such as if they have test more, or if there's dead leaves, or if they need to repot it or water. It's a really really interesting phenomenon. What do you think some of the biggest misconceptions are about trying to grow things
in a small apartment. Yeah, there's a misconception that people say, oh, I have a small space, I'm not going to bother because I don't want to crowd for people who are obsessed with plants, there's actually no such thing as not enough space for plants with really small spaces to Another thing that people tend to not think about is working vertically. Building vertically is an amazing way to add a whole
bunch of plants. We also have plants hanging from the ceiling, so that's another way to where you have a really small space and you can add extra foliage there, or you get plots that are supposed to go against the wall, or you can get strip lights so you can get indoor growing lights and you can put that under your shelf, and then you can put your plants there as well too.
So just because you may be thinking that you're restricted based on the fact that you don't have light or something like that, you can definitely get good quality grow lights and that can really expand your ability to put things in different places. But I think trying diving in doing it, I think, I think, to me, that's incredibly important. And if I buy an extra one, my partner generally doesn't notice or except if it's just because we have so many points. But I, yeah, I don't know, it's
it's hard to explain it. I know, No, I I completely agree with what where is? I mean, I've only started gardening recently, and just walking into the living room and seeing these plants makes me happy. But then also the little routine and a little care of of watering them is really meditative. It is. It is and also things too. And I know your daughter likes the basil plants or basis as she calls them, which is so good.
How awesome is it to make pizza or passa sauce, or you're making a sturfire or something, and then you put the basil that you've been growing yourself. It's something that's so small, but it's it's awesome and it's something that you're doing. Yeah, and a plant and a plant is the Instagram account. Thank you for taking time away from your your kiddo and family. I really appreciate it. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. This is being
great to talk about. And now here's Mangoes inner monologue. Today, I saw a rat carrying a slice of pizza. He dragged it over to a patch of dirt in the park and he began digging, And I thought, if he can do it, so can i. Humans growing stuff will be right back after a short break after talking with Anna, Like right after talking with Anna, I told Lizzie we should get a pathos. Pathos have come up a few times on the show now, but I couldn't quite figure
out how they'd fit into our apartment. Then suddenly I spotted this little space above our upright piano and it felt right for colonizing. I don't know how excited she is for my new plant hobby, but she's been pretty supportive. But even with all these new tips of trying to think about our space more vertically and using more shelving to store these plants. I'm starting to realize this kingdom is feeling a little small for my ambitions. We're running
out of floor space. We have more mother in law tongues than actual mother in laws. And even though I want to live that hashtag plant life, I think there's a cap on what we can actually grow in this apartment. So I reached out to two big shots from the New York Botanical Garden, Ursula Chance and Kadisha Williams, to learn more. Ursula is the director of Bronx green Up and Kadisha is green Ups community horticulturist and urban agriculturist. So before we get too deep into this, I want
to know a little bit about the green Up project. Sure. So Bronx green Up was started in and it was started really by people who were in the Bronx staying to Bronx, people like Kadisha's grandfather, who were saw these spaces that they wanted to do something positive, to make beautiful grow food for the community. And so those kind of organic efforts were starting and people turned to the
Botanical Garden to help with these efforts. In the Botanical Garden created the Bronx Greenup Program to to really do that one thing that is really exciting. I think for me, there's this almost organic conversation between cultures. So people come into the garden and even back you know, at the beginning of this, when a lot of these lots didn't have anything in them, people were coming together the growth stuff.
Even though there may be language barriers, even though they come from completely different cultures, they'd be excited about the same plant. While we all come from different places, we have different faces, we still need to eat. And that was a really good way that we tire our cultures together in the ways that we build community. Yeah, that's incredible. I I was thinking about that too, just how we are so often like siloed in our own apartments and
our own like work and whatever. But but that the garden really gives the space to almost forces interaction between not just communities, but also generations. I means something that just popped into my head. Happened a while ago when we were helping with the New Roots Community Farm, and I remember one time we were there and there was like a bottle that was just laying in front of the gate, and so I was like, oh, let me
just pick this up. I saw there was a piece of paper inside, and I was like, oh, that's interesting. So I just I don't know why I actually pulled out the piece of paper, which you know, you don't usually go around examining garbage, but I was like, let me just do that. And then there was a note into it and it was like, Oh, are you started a community garden. I want to be involved. I love that A literal message in the bottle, just waiting for you.
And it was like I was such a moment like oh, like, I just feel like these spaces are so precious and important and people are really craving that place to come together and get their hands in the dirt and grow and connect with nature. And I think just seeing that like that just speaks to it, like that people are really craving that opportunity. What role do community gardens play in the fabric of a city? For for the two of you, so much. Community gardens are are safe havens.
There's spaces for community organizing, save spaces for young people, spaces where you can perform, and spaces where you can learn, like spaces for education, also just a space to sit down. Like it's all of those things combine it's a hub. Yeah, I mean, just more to echo what Cadisia said, I mean I do. I do think community gardens are kind of the heart of a neighborhood and community and all
that they can offer and provide. And I see that so often and just there's so much and just taking a space on a hot day to sit in the shade and cool down. There's just so many things and resources that community gardens can offer. There should be more community gardens all over the world. We have to root ourselves, put our feet in the dirt. I love that, you
know what. One of the articles I read in The Times that that really made me smile was that, uh, there's this gentleman who grew so much in his plot that he was sending extra produced to his family in Puerto Rico, and and it just made me curious, like, how much food are people actually growing in these little plots. It depends on a variety of things. It depends on the season. Sometimes you could do everything right and you
don't produce a lot. Sometimes it's totally by accident. You know, not everyone tracks their produced the same, but it's definitely hundreds of pounds something like at the start of this pandemic in New York City. Community gardens I think are so oftentime leaders in their community. What they're like, what can we do? We can grow food, We grow That's what what's we do. And so they could produce a lot of food that can contribute to food pantries, to
soup kitchens, to night just senior housing. I love that. So you both do such a good job with education. But but I'm curious, how do you welcome people in who might be a little intimidated. Oh I love to tell people that you're going to kill a lot of stuff and that's okay. Yeah, I love that too. I mean, I agree. I feel like, you know, the more I do this more, there's always something to learn. There's always something new to discover and observe. And so just reminding
people just start small. Is there any community garden etiquette that we should all know about. Every garden is completely different. There are, of course similarities, communities that look the same, that eat the same, But the garden community, the garden etiquette, as you say, is completely different. It depends on the garden. One thing I would say is asked, asked before you take something. Most people are really most gardeners are like, oh, of course, sure, Oh you want to try this. Sure.
I mean you can imagine like spending a whole season growing something and then watching someone pick your cucumbers with tomatoes. Yeah, I guess that that's sort of politeness. Hope it's not. Though it's not. I think it's less about politeness and more just excitement. Even I do it. Sometimes I go in and I reached them like, oh wait, that's not my fairy tomatoes. Let me ask, let me just get positioning real quick. I'm like enamored by it. I'm like, wow,
this is so beautiful. Look at all this stuff growing, and oh my god, they'd be so successful, and I can't I need to ask for pission before I put my hands on people's stuff. I was stunned that they are all these like bees and chickens and the photos and it's not just flowers and plants at these gardens, right, of course not again, like as culturist mix and we tried. You know, as we go further and further and push the envelope with urban farming, we want to bring more
and more aspects of rural farming to the city. I think chickens are so fun. My community garden is I don't want to say it free for all. It for a long time, people have definitely been chucking animals over the gate. I think. I think in their minds they're like, this is a beautiful green space and they take care of chickens and bees, so like they will save this duck. And children love it, like they see chickens and they're just like wow, like I can't believe they're chickens here?
Can we touched them? And that's that's been really cool to to show them how to take care of the chickens, how to feed them. It's been good for us to we can use the chicken manure to help for lize our beds. It's been interesting to learn how to incorporate that stuff into the operation. Very cool for for an outsider like me. What what is the first step to getting involved in a community garden? Do you have to apply? Do you have to do you have to know someone? Like?
What what is the process? It's different for every garden. It's different for the communities. Of course, community gardens are open to the public, so if the gate is open, you're welcome to come in and enjoy that space. It's a community space, so it belongs to the community. If you want to be a garden member, there is usually
an application process. Um, if it's you right, and you're new, and you're walking down the street and you see a garden and it's open, I would walk in and talk to someone and see what their their way is for becoming a guarden member or getting involved. If all those fails, if you're in the Bronx, you can call Bronx been up with the new Botanical Garden, and we try to connect you to the right persons. And then if it's outside of the Bronx, you could always talk to Green
Thumb of the New York City Parks Department. And So, what is the biggest reason you tell city dwellers to like get into gardening and get into these community spaces because it's awesome. There's not one reason. Everyone has their own reason for getting involved, which I think that that
makes the experience so much more beautiful. Well, I think just showing that the different community gardens and farms, if there's one near you, there's there's different ways you can get involved, either become a member or help ountain volunteer. And I think also just seeing these commit gardens and are farms just as part of our larger New York
City green space with our parks as well. I've been on the busiest streets in New York City and I'll look up, you know, in late September, and all of a sudden, they'll be a monarch that will be flying by, you know, doing its southern migration. And so once you kind of open your eyes to it, you'll see more and more that it's around us in the city. In terms of people who are interested in learning about it.
We're doing it, but don't know where to start. We always recommend taking a class, and we get a lot of people in our class who've never done it before who always say, like, I have no space, I'm not in a garden, and they end up by the end of the class growing tomatoes out of their window. So there's always a way, you know. That's why we see trees growing out of the side of walls and in train stations, because they that's the nature of a seat, that's what it's it's supposed to do, is grow, not
to be corny, but like a seed. We encouraged them to grow. I don't think that's corny at all. I love it. Yeah, that's so true. Like I think people are just always finding different green space, like out of their window, by their building there's some area that they'll start fencing off or in their tree bed that it's great to think about different ways that you can start start growing and getting your hands in the dirt. Thank you both so much for being here, Thank you for
having us. This is awesome a pleasure. And now for another trip to poetry Corner and oh to community gardening etiquette. Come one, come all, come spring, come fall. There's community in these leaves. Dig into some dirt and pull up your sleeves. But whatever you do, asked before you eat my peas, please thank you. I got so excited talking to Ursula and Kadijja that I started looking up the history of community gardens. I had no idea that in the US the first community gardens sprott up in Detroit
in the eight nineties. Apparently the city gave land a local residents along with seeds to combat local hunger and and the project actually thrived. But even before that, in the seventeen thirties, there were these craftsmen and workers in England who started using community gardens in Sheffield because and I promised this is what the article said. There was a new fad of eating vegetables that trickled down from
quote Cosmopolitan London, and I just love that. For me, I think what I'm craving most about this is community. In the last two years, our family has moved from Brooklyn to Atlanta to back to Brooklyn, and it was so much harder on my kids than I had expected. Just when they found friends and figured out this new system of schooling, we ripped them away. And so I think about community a lot, how we could be giving them a community and doing something fun but also good,
like growing food for pantries and soup kitchens. When I heard Kadija tell me about our garden, the tak about community garden that her grandfather and her father built from this rough area in the Bronx and turned into this thriving, beautiful space where apparently rabbits and ducks can live, it made me long to be part of something like that. I want that New York City, a place where people speak different languages and come from different cultures and joyously
tend to their plots and chit chat together. Different generations interacting and telling stories, and just building a place where strangers can walk in and kick up their feet and eat a sandwich in this little oasis, you know, just find a place to breathe. It's a strange little journey that I've taken these last three weeks. Somehow I've moved from just wanting to have less funerals for our basil plants so well wanting to be a part of something bigger.
So this week, instead of just standing on the ledge, I decided to cannon ball into the deep end. I researched a few places close to me, looked at classes, made a few phone calls, and today I'm going to take my family on a little field trip. The sweetest thing I read in that article about those community gardens from the seventeen hundreds was that this economist looked at the figures and determined that Sheffield gardeners were healthy and more hardy than the people who lived in places without
gardens at that time. And yes, maybe it was because of all the extra vegetables in their diet, and maybe it was because of the exercise being in the field and all that, But as the author points out, maybe it was just the joy of gardening itself, a pleasure that was as profound in the seventeen hundreds as it is today, and I'm guessing being part of a little community that must have helped too. That's it for today's episode.
Don't forget whether you're a beginner like me, a pro trying something new, or someone in between enjoying your community garden, there are incredible resources waiting for you on the Miracle Grow website. Next time on our show, we'll dig into gardening with your family. If you like what you heard, don't forget to rate and review the show on Apple Podcast. It really helps us out, and we want to hear from you. What are your in firing plant stories and
relatable struggles and growing questions. Tag us in your post or tweet using the hashtag Humans Growing Stuff and you may just hear your story featured on an upcoming episode. Humans Growing Stuff is a collaboration from I Heart Radio and your friends at Miracle Grow. Our show was written and produced by Molly Sosha and me Mangy Chatigler in partnership with Ryan Ovadia, Daniel Ainsworth, Hayley Ericson, and Garrett Shannon of Banter. Until Next Time, thanks so much for listening,