Humankind is produced in association with W Boston and supported by the humankind program fund. Additional funding for the series has been provided by the corporation for public broadcasting, the National Institutes of Health, Annie e casey foundation and the Park Foundation. This notion of, if I can just be... Still enough to listen to you. Just in that process of listening creates understanding and a connection between us. Promotes from me the possibility of peace making.
The promote for me, the the possibility that we really can get along in society that we really can create institutions in places where peace building is sustainable. A simple way of communicating that can help us to heal conflict and foster greater compassion. You're listening to humankind. I'm David Freud. It's been said that we've learned how to speak, but not necessarily how to communicate. Rarely, we taught the art of deep listening.
Or how to respond to someone without accusation or blame or the ability to articulate our own needs without putting others on the defensive. These are some skills taught in a system known as non nonviolent communication. Its aim is to promote more understanding in a world riddled with conflict. Finding ways to do that has long been a quest of Betty Bi an educator in Cambridge, Massachusetts. In an age where language is sometimes cheap and cra, her manner of speech is quiet and considered.
I was in the peace corps, when I was very young, and I read a montessori school. For many years. I was very involved in the women's internationally Peace and freedom. For many years. In all of those environments, conflict was very present mean, conflict is a very normal condition in our lives. It and the conflict is not ever the problem. Of course, it's always the ways in which we try to solve it that we get into trouble.
The the complex in teaching and running a school often had to do with people's assumptions, about what was actually happening or being required or requested of them. So Again, I've discovered it over and over again, the way to solving conflicts in a way that we all can live with it, is to listen deeply to people's needs that are at the center of the conflict and more often than not, the needs aren't in conflict. It's the strategies that we're trying to use to solve them.
So My approach has always been to listen to listen and to listen. And in that listening process, looking for a place of agreement, a common ground. And more often than not, finding enough common ground to then move more deeply into where the conflict or the the The disconnect around the need is. Betty Bi has worked toward conflict resolution in venues ranging from a preschool on Cape Cod. To the United Nations department of disarm affairs.
But whether in the playground or in the international arena or in personal relations at home. For Betty Burke the same principles of non nonviolent communication or Nbc apply. Listen respectfully, communicate authentically. She rarely attends a practice group with others. Trying to hone the skills of Nbc.
In my own struggles, there is this sense of often this sense of wanting to fix somebody else's distress because there's some way in which I have taken on the notion that I'm responsible for their feelings. And having the opportunity through the Nbc practice group to actually understand my responsibility for what I've done.
But also the fact that the other person makes choices about how they feel about what I've done, and that I don't get to control or be in charge of the choice is that they make. And that's both liberating in the end and goes against what we're brought up to to believe that in fact, I can behave in a particular way. I can... Whatever I do, you have the choice about your feelings around it that I can say something that's quite un and quite rude But how you receive it is up to
you. You can choose to hear it as rude and cruel, or you can hear it as Betty not being very skill in trying to communicate and that it it truly is not about you. Not taking it personally. Yeah. How much of this practice of non nonviolent communication boils down to, not taking personally the things that other people say or do. All of it. All of it is about I mean not taking it personal is about really knowing that you aren't creating the other person's reality. It's hard.
It is because it's not how we are raised. It's not the messages that we get as children. So if we're not creating the other person's reality, what is our role in communicating with the other person, especially in a case of conflict. Holding up our own. Like, being in touch with them authentically about our own reality. And being with them in a way that supports them, being in being with them in a relationship to them that supportive about their true nature, which is quite beautiful.
And sacred and special. Even if covered over sometimes. Always, it's covered over. It is about unpacking it about restoring it sometimes, red it sometimes, but the... I believe and I I think it's at the basis of not nonviolent communication is that we are all good, loving, beautiful beings and that... At core. At core. And that Nbc is about helping us be in touch with that core. More and more and more. On a daily basis moment to moment.
And of course, we will slip out of it, but we can always reestablish it The simply yet powerful skill sat known as non nonviolent communication has been championed by a tireless world traveler named Marshall Rosenberg. In 19 84, he founded the nonprofit center for non nonviolent communication based in La Sent California.
Raised in a turbulent neighborhood of Detroit He has long been preoccupied with the question of what motivates some people toward violence, while others are moved to compassion instead. It spends much of the year training people in non nonviolent communication. Well, first, we try to get people to see the difference between intellectual understanding. Which is going up to our mind and classifying and trying to intellectually understand what somebody is saying.
And empathy, which for us is to connect with the life that's coming through the other person at this moment. I was in a refugee camp for in the Middle East and when my interpreter announced that I was from the United States. A gentleman jumped to his feet and screamed at me, me do it. And here was my response to him. I said, sir, Are you irritated annoyed? I guess even furious with my government because your need for support is not being met by some of our policies.
See We try to hear people's feelings and needs behind what they say. He was rather shocked, I think, to to hear that. I guess he was expecting a defensive or aggressive response. And after he stopped for a moment. And he said you're darn right. We don't have housing. We don't have sewage. Why are you sending your weapons?
So again, I continued trying to hear the life that was coming through him, and I said, so, sir, am I hearing you correctly that it's very painful when you have such basic needs not getting met, and you see a lot of weapons being sent over here. You said you're darn right. You know what it's like to live under these conditions? I said sir, so you'd like some understanding of. Just how painful it can be to live under these conditions.
Now in a couple more sentences, he felt understood and he could start to hear me. And about 40 minutes after that when the meeting was over, he invited me to Rama down dinner at his house. Was your first goal to diffuse the anger and intensity by asking those questions trying to understand him and hear him out. Oh, my first goal was to see the beauty in this human being. I know that whatever is coming through a human being is a very precious energy. A divine energy, and I wanna commit with that.
If even if the person is being nasty and he's only nasty if I'm diagnosing him? I don't diagnose him. I try to hear what is his pain right now that leads him to call me this name? What needs of his or not being met. So you are not perceiving him as threatening or as unpleasant? Let me say that the first... When he jumped to his feet in the tone of his voice, my first reaction, I was scared.
I was really scared so I took a deep breath before I said anything and just saw my fear, but I didn't see him as the problem. I just saw that I was scared and giving myself just that much understanding. I could then shift my attention to what he might be feeling and needing when he said that. Now, I had some clues to go on because as we were walking into the refugee camp that day, we had to kick out of the path, empty tear gas grenades. There were hundreds of
them all over the ground. There had been a riot in this refugee camp the night 4 and hundreds of tear gas grenades were shipped in there. And on the side of these empty grenades was written made in Usa. So if people are seeing that as they walk the paths of their refugee camp, they have some associations to people. Non nonviolent communication recognizes that there's often a story behind the story.
The ideas people express and the tone of voice they use Don't always convey fully their are true underlying concerns. A good listener will notice not only what's being said, but also what's been left said and we'll try to get clarification on the source of conflict. For Betty Bi, who is African American, peer beneath the surface helped her to get past appearances while participating in a circle of peace activists.
I joined the circle after the invitation quite joyful and fell quite privileged and honored to be invited. Out of my own sense of my own work and my own accomplishment around non violence and peace education and and those values that I hold in the world in the place that I have actually had an opportunity to work. And as the meeting of the circle progressed over the year.
I through conversations and observations realized that I had actually been invited because I filled a particular diversity slot. And I was quite hurt and felt angry about that. But actually, I got some empathy around it. I was able to separate my own personal internalized feelings of not being enough just as who I was, and for the work I done to be invited, but that it was a racial slot that need to be filled and I met that race and I was invited.
I was able to do some empathy for the person who was organizing this circle, and understanding that the need to diversify the circles to invite people into it who would meet her needs for inclusion and diversity. Really had nothing to do with my worth and my value. It was really about her need to feel her circle in a particular way. And I was able to reconnect with my own self around my own worth and my own value.
And not around my feelings of diminish or feelings of not enough ness that got stimulated when I real when I understood the circumstances that had included me in the circle, that that was not about me at all. In the heat of a moment of conflict, especially if we're feeling slight or even attacked. It can be extremely hard to see the other people as they really are, rather than through this subjective lens that we may have created about them.
Non nonviolent communication offers some tools for breaking through those pre toward a more authentic way of interacting. Marshal Rosenberg. Well, the first thing you is that all this language that we first hear is criticism attack in insult. Is a tragic expression of what the speaker is feeling and needing. And we show people that if you can see the truth, The truth, you see. Now I was working with Israeli police. And when I didn't make this clear at
first. 1 of the police... Let me see if I'm understanding you, Marshal, you're saying if somebody spits on me, I'm supposed to tell myself it's raining up. I said, thank you for that question. I think it'll help me be clear. No. Telling yourself it's raining out is looking at the world through rose colored glasses that I'm saying is it requires seeing the truth. See what that person is feeling and needing at the time you get this message. Whatever the message is even if it is spitting.
So you're seeing a difference between when somebody lashes out through insult or Vi, and who the person is that doing the lashing out. But I'm gonna be even more concrete than the the abstract, who the person is. I wanna hear something very concrete What are they feeling at this moment? What emotions? And what needs of theirs are creating the emotions? See all human beings have the same needs. So when I see the need of this person that's being expressed through this language.
I see another human being like me like you. I don't see an enemy. I don't see him lashing out or insulting me. I see him as trying in the best way he knows how to tell me that something I've done is a stimulus for pain for him. And it didn't meet some needs of his, or maybe it isn't something I did. It's the fact that I'm from the United States. Well, that's not something about the country I'm associated with is doing something that's stimulating great pain for him. It's not meeting his needs.
So as we put it this way sometimes in our training. Never hear what somebody thinks about you. You'll live longer and enjoy people more. Instead of hearing what they think about you, even when they say, I think you're this or that. Hear the truth. Here at that moment, what that person is feeling and needy. What they're telling you about themselves. Hear what they are feeling and needing, and that does tell you about themselves. Yes. It says that at that moment what they're feeling and needing.
Now we have to guess at this because they're not using a language of feelings and needs. However, even if I guess wrong, I am still seeing a human being. I'm not hearing any criticism. I'm not diagnosing them. I'm connecting with their human. The philosophy of non nonviolent occasion requires deeply respecting the humanity of others. But that doesn't dictate yielding to unreasonable demands or ac whenever someone tries to get their way by use of bully tactics.
Treating the other person with dignity while treating oneself with dignity, can mean walking a fine line. The line is understanding my responsibility versus your responsibility. And my taking responsibility for what I'm responsible for. And how do you see your responsibility in a mode of communication and based on non violence? Consciousness and awareness around speech.
The way I speak the way I listen, my intentions, my commitment to staying self connected in the process of being connected to the other person. So to remain true to yourself. To remain present with myself. That's the kind of truth, but not abandoning my own emotions, my own feelings and my own needs, in the moment of listening to the other persons.
So sometimes it's about taking time out. It's about saying, you know, I'm not I'm not able to give you the kind of listening and the kind of attention that you need right now because I'm needing so much. Could we make some time just to be quiet together, just to give me a chance to reconnect with myself so that I can more connected to you. So you said a moment ago that your responsibility included being responsible for your speech?
Yes. It seems we live in a culture where there's a lot of reckless speech. What does it mean who consciously take responsibility for what we say. It means staying in a place of wake and consciousness about myself, staying connected to myself and my values. And which is which is being aware that really my intention is to be in the service of staying connected. And if that's what I want, then I have to do certain things. Like monitor my speech, monitor my responses, be aware of my feelings.
Maintain an environment that nurture and contributes to those values. Which for me means not watching television, turning off the news. Monitoring the newspapers or the the media that comes into my house. So really being very discriminating in what you allow into your thinking? Yes. The books that I choose to read, the movies I choose to see So choice is at the heart of some of that consideration in how I live in order to maintain that quality of speech or action. It's so easy.
Nevertheless, for us to blur out things, we don't really intend. Mh. To say. Yes. Of course. I make lots of mistakes. The level of skill that I want to live is often not there. Its practice. It's about being in the commitment and intention of practice. And you know, I I do believe that when the intention is there, when the intention is good even when we lack our skill or we make a mistake. There is a way of recur reads much more quickly than when the intention is not good.
You know, I might hurt your... I might do something that is hurtful that results in hurting or someone feeling hurt But if my intention was not to my intention was not to harm. The way in which we can reconnect and recover it is much is much quicker. And for you, what is what is the intention that underlies your interest in communicating with people in a nonviolent way. Promoting peace, promoting promoting, a way of being in the world.
That I would like everybody to be able to be in the world, living in a way that really come out of doing into others as I would have them do unto to me. And my doing into others is really coming out of a place of love and acceptance and appreciation and recognizing the sacred in all beings. So that's my intention. That's what that's what motivates my desire of, a way of being in the world. And I don't often don't come up to it, but it's still what I'm holding.
And is there anything in your personal life personal story that drives you to want to make the world more peaceful. David, I grew up in a family.
With a grandmother and a father, who, modeled for me a way of being in the world that I integrated in a non stage at and it's deeply embedded in me this this notion that the way to be in the world is to be in in the world in a loving kind generous spacious, abundant, message, that there is enough for everyone, and that, part of our being on this planet is to be in this service of others and that others are here to be in the service of us as well that is... It's about mutual.
And we have some responsibility to create the kinds of communities that we want to live in. And it's it's to be done in a collective, collaborative, holy way. Not in a hierarchical, mean spirited competitive way. It it's it's a message that I got as a child, and it... It's been tested. I've tried other ways. But they've never felt off intake in the way this 1 does. Educator Betty Bi and earlier, Marshall Rosenberg. Author of non nonviolent communication, a language of life.
You're listening to humankind. I'm David Freud, studio recording by Steve Colby at tutorial assistance from Thomas Royal, special thanks to Nancy Carlson Page. Our program is presented by human media in association with the network incorporated program development and support provided by short media. You can hear more episodes of our series at humankind podcast dot org. That's humankind podcast dot org. This segment on non nonviolent communication is humankind program number 100.
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review at Apple podcast podcasts or another podcast service. It goes a long way in helping people find the kind series. If you'd like additional content not available on our podcasts you can head over to our Patreon page where we release monthly episodes. Our focus is solutions, not just problems. You'll also hear some staff picks from our archive, including conversations with people like a young Joe Biden, Ken Burns, and mister Rogers.
Finally, if you'd like to support this podcast, please go to humankind podcast dot org and choose how you can help at the top of our homepage, that's humankind podcast dot org. Thanks. At