Bonus: Aliens (1986 movie) discussion panel

Hi there, everybody. Welcome to a special episode of the Hugos There Podcast. Every now and then I do one of these sort of panel discussions talking about a movie that is important to me and I did one of these a while back with one of my sisters about Lady Hawk, which was an important 80s movie in my household. And this time we're doing something similar because we're going to be talking about Aliens from 1986 directed by James Cameron, sequel to, of course, Alien. And it was an important movie, at least for some of us in my household growing up.

And so I'm going to introduce my guests now. Everybody will remember Mandy's self. Hi, Mandy. Hi, glad to be here. Yep, Mandy has been on the podcast several times. I've been on her podcast. One of these days we need to schedule another one of you for the Terminator show. Yes. And then we have a couple of new guests here, at least for, I guess, Megan, you're actually not a new guest because you did a comfort read episode with me.

Right. Yes. For odd Thomas. Yes. This is Megan Cutter, one of my sisters. Hello. Hi, everybody. And then we also have Luke Elliott from the Ink to Film podcast. Either Luke. Hello. And I, as I was telling everybody before we started recording, Luke also lives in Portland, you know, not far from where I live. And so naturally we met for the first time in Scotland because he was at World Cup. That's right. And Luke, why don't you tell folks about Ink to Film? Sure.

Ink to Film is a book to film adaptation podcast. I'm a writer and my co-host is a filmmaker. We talk about book to film adaptations starting with the source material and then moving into the film. We just released an episode with Ted Chang talking about a rival, which was a big episode for us and very exciting. So definitely check that one out. If you like sci-fi and you like who goes there.

I think you'll appreciate that one. And we are about to get to Junji, to next. We're going to do the Uzamaki adaptation that is just started coming out. Sounds awesome. Okay. So let's talk about aliens. I didn't drop any any movie quotes at the beginning, which is unacceptable. I'm sure somebody will throw in it at some point.

But let's start by talking about sort of history with aliens. And actually, I don't know Luke, if you or Mandy are younger, and I'm not going to ask your ages, but I know you're both younger than Megan and I are. So Mandy, how did you first encounter aliens?

So on this podcast before, I've talked about how I am a geek raised by geeks, a second generation geek. So my parents thought it was appropriate when I was in the second grade to sit me down and show me all three of what we're out alien movies, which I greatly enjoyed, but my kindergarten little sister was traumatized for life. So I also had too much older siblings. And to me, it was more traumatizing to be left out of movie time versus seeing scary movies.

So that was the first time I saw aliens. So we watched one through three and rapid succession. And I really liked aliens because I have a lifelong crush on Michael Bean. Yeah, because I've also talked, I think I've talked about for that. I think I saw Terminator from the womb. Like I've never noticed where I haven't seen Terminator. And it's one of my favorite movies.

So Michael Bean, special place in my heart in this movie. I really enjoy him and Ripley and just everything about it. So I love aliens. And in this one, Michael Bean is not wearing urine and crested bum pants. That definitely helps. This is probably like peak Michael Bean, like being put together action heroes supporting the female lead. So I really like that.

Yeah, yeah. And the fun story about that is that he was not originally cast. Maybe we'll get to that one when we get there. Really? Yeah. Yeah. All right, Luke, what's your history with aliens? And okay, I'm going to ask what year you graduate high school? I graduated in 2004. Okay, that gets you a clue. Yeah, so I'm older than me. And substantially younger than me. I'm young enough to be my children.

So I grew up with an older brother, a younger brother and a younger sister. And my older brother definitely was one of the people who helped me. Explore sci fi horror from an early age. I also am a child of geek parents. In fact, I'm named after Luke Skywalker. So that's my claim to fame.

But yeah, my older brother was, I was probably about, I don't know, 10 years old when he decided it was time I needed to watch aliens. I needed to watch the thing. I needed to watch, you know, close encounters of the third kind. I need to start watching all these like, you know, classic 80s horror sci fi. And he wasn't much older than me. So he was also just super into it.

I think I saw aliens before I watched alien. If I go all the way back with these are movies that I saw so young and so frequently that I actually don't remember for sure, which one I saw first. And they were both kind of interchangeable for me from an early age. And I love them both dearly. So I'm excited to talk about aliens. Nice. Nice. Megan, why don't you talk about our history with it?

So I actually saw it in the theater when I first came out. And I was a little young for it. But my friend Glenda and her family took me to a lot of things that I probably shouldn't have seen in theater. And I actually I saw aliens before alien as well took me a while to watch alien. And I didn't really understand why they were so different, you know, that one really is more dramatic and one is more action. But yeah, I did. I was in high school. I was a senior in high school when I saw this.

I watched it pretty much at least once a year, sometimes twice a year. And yes, I'm with Mandy, big Michael Bean fan. Even when he's the bad guy in the abyss. The abyss. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I, I remember being jealous that you got to go see it because I remember like in all the magazines and stuff like it was there.

There were stuff about, you know, how they did the alien queen and stuff. And I was, you know, that. And so as soon as the glass teeth and yeah, the glass teeth and everything. Yeah. Yeah. And so, so basically as soon as it was available, I don't remember it was probably just on, you know, go and rent it from from video store, right? Yeah. And this is, I guess this is later than the Megan, you remember this, the rent of VCR stage where you go rent the VCR and some tape. Right. Right.

A VCR was impossibly expensive. Yeah. But yeah. And so basically as soon as, as soon as we could do that, Megan was like, you got to watch this. And, and so yeah, for me too, I had never seen alien aliens was definitely the first one that I saw and has always been my preferred entry in this. Yeah. For sure. I have seen all of them. I actually really like to see them all. I really only acknowledged the first two. I will say alien Romulus was quite enjoyable.

I haven't seen that one. Yeah. I did see that. Yeah. It's pretty good. I would say it's the third best. And I'll be a voice of descent and that I do prefer alien to aliens, but only slightly. And I do love aliens. The only is a great movie. I also prefer alien to aliens. Okay. All right. So I need to know. I'm not terrible. So I've got to know because this is a data point that I'm trying to take together T1 or T2 Luke. I haven't seen those as recently, but I think I'll go T1. Okay. Mandy.

Definitely T1. Definitely. It's like one of my top five favorite movies. Okay. Yeah. T1. There's no comparison. Like my son Ethan is opinionated and he likes alien better than aliens. And he knows that I prefer aliens, but I prefer T1. And he thinks that's completely inconsistent. It shouldn't be that way. And you know, because T2 is more of an action movie. There's other reasons because yeah, T1 is more of a horror movie. T2 is more of an action movie.

Alien is definitely a horror movie. Aliens is, you know, horror sci-fi action. See for me. Terminator is a dark romance. Yeah. So yeah. For sure. Yeah. That's it's kind of sci-fi dark romance. T1 is one of my. Romeo, Julia. Yeah. Yeah. Terminator is one of my favorites. Yeah. Maybe we'll have to come back and do another one of these. Oh, for sure. T1. I want you to track down that novelization for me though.

Oh, oh, yes. With the yeah. Yeah. I am. Yeah. We won't talk about that yet. No, we won't talk about that. Well, Megan, Megan had the novelization of it. And you know, we'd watched it off of TV a ton of times when it when it first came out. And I know this we're not talking about Terminator in this podcast, but whatever. My podcast, my rules. And so I went to read the novelization Megan gave it to me and she had wided out all the swear words.

I think we did talk about that on my podcast. I think we did. Yeah, that's right. I dropped the tender antithesis line on Mandy's podcast, I believe. Right. Right. Just so you know, I would not white out the swear words anymore. No, I just will. I would not either. You have to protect your brother's innocent mind. Back then, maybe a little. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not so much. Not so much today. So anyhow, aliens. Yes.

Important movie for it for me growing up. And I do prefer it to to alien. And my son definitely prefers the first one. And I think part of the reason for that is we went to when Amzi was doing there. That's the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. Luke knows it, but maybe Megan and Mandy don't. They do a science fiction film festival most years. And we went and saw alien in the big giant screen that they have there.

Oh, yeah. And that's the first time he had ever seen it. And that's the perfect environment for a Gen Z person to see a movie because they can't be looking at their phone the whole time. He would hate that. So then at some point, we watched aliens at home. And he didn't like it as much because he was on his phone the whole time. So. And he said, well, maybe if it was a better movie, I wouldn't have been on my phone the whole time. Oh, he just needs to watch it with me.

Exactly. Yeah. I will introduce it to you. He likes aliens just fine. He just he just he really enjoys horror movies and so. Alien appeals. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot I could say about why I prefer alien. But I'm not going to denigrate aliens because I do think it's a great movie. Yeah. It's not about one not being good. I mean, stretched. They're both amazing. Yeah. And I love the movie alien. I just yeah. Ali is is I think they're both peaks of their genre.

Exactly. They're just indifferent genres. So it kind of is a preference to which genre you prefer. And I think historically I did prefer aliens. It wasn't until I got a little older that actually they swapped for me after reviewing them both time and again. I think I also maybe give a slight edge to alien because of it being the original.

And so much of what we what we love about alien comes from that movie. Whereas aliens, of course, is riffing off of something that was like preexisting at that point. I also feel like aliens was tainted by alien three. Yeah. Interesting. I don't acknowledge that movie. I've seen alien three once and it was probably in the 90s and I barely remember it. So it's probably that's okay.

Just let it die there. It's it's hours. You can't get back. Yeah. Yeah. Alien is definitely one that's growing on me as well. I remember when we first watched it. I thought, well, this is just dead boring. It's kind of like the first time I watch Blade Runner. There's some movies that like you have to be at the right age to watch them. And you know, I definitely

Aliens appeals to a younger audience for sure. I mean, it's got space marines and action and you know, there's a lot going on. Yeah. And as a kid, being Michael Bean. I do think alien is the more like thematically resonant and interesting movie to yeah, but you know, we can talk about how that plays out here because you know, James Cameron tries to do some of some interesting things.

But I think he ends up falling into a little bit more familiar territory. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. And he did. So I made it and I actually both backed kickstarter kind of thing with creator recie for for a documentary called aliens expanded. That's a five hour documentary about alien aliens. Sorry. And and I watched it while I was recovering from shoulder surgery, which anybody seeing video or screenshots will see I'm in a sling.

And and it talked about sort of the origins of it and the original name of the film was mother. Because he saw it as as mother versus mother. Yeah. And you can definitely see more of that in the director's cut. Yeah. And you can in the final movie. Oh, for sure. And so we will talk about some of the differences between the extended edition slash director's cut slash TV cut. Right.

Of the movie. Because I think that was probably the first I think the first way I saw it was on VHS that was the theatrical cut. And then once we recorded it off TV, it was the longer cut. Yeah. I didn't see the director's cut for years. It was a more recent discovery for me. I don't even know which cut I watched, which everyone was on Hulu. So I think both are on max, but you have to choose what you do.

You go to extras on max. Then you have the the extended version available. And you know, in aliens expanded, they they talk about Galen heard actually talks about how you know this wasn't the days of the multiplex where you could run it in five theaters at one cinema. And so the studio is like, we need this a little leaner. And so they kind of had to go in and look at things that they could cut. Yeah. Whole pieces of some of those choices. I agree with other ones. Not so much.

Yeah. I do think you're a fan of aliens. It's worth checking out the director's cut if you haven't seen it. Because it's gives you a little more gives you some backstory that that you know isn't there usually. And you know, then you can decide whether or not you think it's the preferable version. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Any other opening statements about aliens or we can kind of start diving into what happens in the movie and just sort of do a running commentary.

Sure. All right. Everybody queue up your players. No, just joking. Two hours and 31 minutes or whatever. So you know the challenge of this movie and I actually, you know, Luke, like you were saying, you kind of give extra credit to Alien for being the first movie, right? Yeah. I also kind of give bonus points to aliens for being a sequel to such an influential movie and still managing to be really, really good. Because that does not always happen. That's true.

And maybe it is because it is a different genre. Yeah. You know, because it does turn into action versus horror and more dramatic. Yeah. And I think and Cameron talks about that in aliens expanded. You know, he's like, you don't want to take on Alien by doing another alien because you're going to fail. And so he never wanted to kind of lock horns with that movie.

And that reminds me of some of the stuff that happens with remakes and reboots where they like they reboot total recall, but they keep all the same twists. I mean, we're not surprised by any of this. So maybe you should have done something different. I feel like that's why a lot of sequels fail because they're just trying to recreate the original and it just doesn't work.

It's also interesting that it this is I feel like we so rarely see an influential sort of legendary director like Ridley Scott, make a movie and then another influential legendary director come in and make a sequel to it. Like that just so rarely happens these days. Yeah. It's fascinating that it happened this time to such a great effect. And then honestly, you know, look at even some of the later names in the franchise have been quite renowned.

Yeah, yeah, Fenture, you have Josh Weeden, which of course is, you know, not as legendary these days, but at the time was a big name. And he did his Weeden thing for that for that version. But yeah, I mean, every different one, every different installment having these big directors come in. It's really interesting. It's just such a massive franchise. And I went and saw Romulus with some friends and we are talking about the predator phenomenon and alien versus predator and all that.

And I thought it was it's quite interesting that alien the alien core franchise has never acknowledged the existence of predator. And yet in predator, they are constantly referencing alien and like hopes to sort of become a shared universe. Yeah, all the way back to predator to yeah, where you get the first reference.

So the opening of the movie is I think is really, really great. And it's it's kind of to me because it just it opens on Ripley's spacecraft, you know, where she she had ejected or fled the nostromo and blew it up and then put herself into her sleep pod and and plotted of course for home. Right. And so you start on that with the great James Horner score. And I do want to talk about that if anybody wants to talk about the score because I think it's absolutely tremendous.

And you know, you have that that opening scene almost as an homage to alien where there's no dialogue for quite some time where you just you just have some blinking lights and readouts. Which it's a very alien thing. I think extra time in the in the directors cut version to I think seem like we were spending even longer. I assume some of these got shaved a little bit. I actually don't know for sure like all the scenes that were included and and not included would be interesting to see that.

Yeah, I wish they would release a version of a movie with a director's cut where they just put a little symbol in the corner or something to let me know this is a scene that's not in the other version. Yeah. Yeah, there's definitely some some stuff and especially on the silaco where you get some extra, you know, panning around and kind of. Yeah. And the space station that she ends up with you really don't see it until the director's cut. Yeah, you see the inside of it, but not the outside of it.

Yeah, because there's that there's a really nice, not a little match cut or whatever from Ripley's face to earth and then she wakes up on Gateway station, right? Right. And you have that amazing fake out which had me go in the first time I saw it. Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I kind of don't love it now. Okay, but I I mean like it's fine. I guess to me it feels a little cheap now.

I don't know, just that's just like a personal preference for movies nowadays, like the dream sequence that that is revealed. And it just feels a little manipulative to me. It has been done a bazillion times now. It's probably because it's been overdone since this movie came out. Well, I was watching it today and realizing, you know, movies now make fun of the fact that you knock everything over in your thing.

And she knocks everything over and you can see her reaching for stuff and knocking it over when she's, you know, when she's convulsing and and then there have been movies that make fun of the fact that that happens. But I think they did it really well back then. It was the first time I had seen something like that. So to me, that is always so just like, you know, it still kind of gets me. And I feel like it's necessary. Like even even though, yeah, it might feel cheap.

Like you have people like a lot of you who didn't see Alien first. So you have to remind what is the fear? What is the thing she is afraid of? And then her PTSD is incredibly important to this entire movie. And so you have to establish that. And so yeah, it's kind of a fake out, but I feel like it's narratively necessary for this movie. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. Ultimately, you're right. Because, you know, we have to know that she's haunted by it. We have to know why.

And the chest-burster threat becomes so important for this film. And it's an effective way to do it. I just think, you know, having her have an actual conversation with a character who's introduced for the first time in that scene. And then that scene seamlessly trans, like go into a dream. And then we're left like questioning. I was wondering after like, did that scene even occur at all? Or was this all a dream?

Like, you know, and then of course it seems like it did occur just maybe that last part was the dream. Right. I mean, that's where you get the bomb drop that she was out there for 57 years. Right. That's the same scene as the dream. Yeah. So you, you know, you could be forgiven thinking it was all a dream. But it's not because that did happen. Which is mind-blowing. That was the first time I encountered that whole idea of like you've been asleep for 50 years.

Like, we've seen stuff like that later in sci-fi, but it was very cool for the film. Ah, someone didn't grow up on Buck Rogers. Why did somebody didn't grow up on Buck Rogers? That was in the 7th juice. I mean, I'm sure it's an idea that's been around a lot. Yeah, I mean, I assume it's like that that happened that day, right? She was told that. And then her brain took these two disturbing facts and meshed them together into a dream. Right. So that scene really happened.

You really have Burke coming in there telling her she was asleep for a cabillion years. And being, you know, his jerky, smuggy little self. He's the worst. I hate him. Oh my god, kiddo, every time you said it, it's just so grating. Oh, it's perfect. It's like she's clearly older than you. Like, yeah. Right. By at least, he's smart. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so shout outs to, to, to, to, to, to Gourney Weaver, obviously, is the star. And, and then Paul Reiser as Burke is absolutely tremendous.

I mean, he does a great job. You really just don't like him at all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much from the beginning. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. It's the calling her kiddo that does it for me because like, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. The rest of the conversation, it's awkward. It's an awkward thing to reveal to a person, you know, and then just calling her kiddo is so patronizing that like she should have punched him in the face. I don't know.

Yeah. And well, I mean, I do like how uncomfortable he acts when he realizes she doesn't know she's been asleep that long. And so, I mean, he does that very well. Yeah. And you feel kind of sorry for him. But then he says kiddo and you kind of, oh, cringe. Yeah. And, you know, even when he introduces himself and says, you know, I work for the company, but, you know, don't let that fully. I'm really an okay guy. You're like, are you though? Yeah. Maybe you're gone.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I do remember in college watching it on, you know, obviously VHS, I remember watching it and having actor friends and, and my actor friends loving how Sigourney weaver when she wakes up. And she is just absolutely driven to walk into the bathroom and splash water on her face. You know, and then call Carter and say that she's going to, she's going to go. But they just, you know, admired the way she did that.

And so every time I see that scene, I remember college from a really years ago. And, you know, remember, the actor friends of mine looking at that scene and thinking that she did a fabulous job. Yeah. I have, I have a note down here about that thing because you then you, you pass that on to me. But that's a later scene. So we'll, we'll go back to that. Oh, sorry, sorry.

Here we have our first, well, like you said, Megan, the, the gateway station, you don't really see any of the externals or anything. Right. Extended version, you do have some matte paintings and, and that kind of stuff. And, you know, that's something to keep in mind about this movie made in the 80s, not a bit of digital effects. You know, so everything is done in camera. And, and really quite impressive in a lot of ways. A few things that don't age terribly well.

But we'll talk about that later. But the first kind of difference that you get with the, the expanded in terms of, sorry, the extended edition. In terms of things that really impact the story is the bit about her daughter. Right. This is something you don't get in the theatrical cut. Yeah. And this, this is obviously a vestige of James Cameron's wanting to make this about a mother versus a mother. Right. Because we never learned that the Ripley's a mother, except in the extended edition. Right.

And you find out that, yeah, her, her daughter had died while she was away. And one interesting fact that I learned from a aliens expanded is that the picture of her daughter is actually Sigourney Weaver's mother. Oh, interesting. That's cool. Yeah. So I thought that was pretty neat. Well, and it also, I like that they put that in the extended edition because it really then, you know, later on. It's understandable why she bonds with mute so well. Yes. And so quickly.

And you know, the argument for people who don't like that part are that they feel that it's sort of cliche. Right. That, you know, somebody could attach. Yeah, exactly. So somebody could attach to a little kid and protect them without having lost a child. Right. Right. But I think thematically it really works well. And so like that's one thing that I feel like I had to kept that. And I think it's going to come down to like how people feel about that specific sort of trope.

To me, I'm a little frustrated with taking Ellen Ripley, who is arguably the most badass sci-fi female character of all time. And an alien is a movie about sort of inverting a lot of the classic tropes of horror and having men be the ones who are assaulted and impregnated. And so much of it is this kind of look at gender in an interesting way. And then you take her in the next movie and you make her a mother who is now trying to become a mother again and fighting another mother.

And it just, it puts her in a very more stereotypical female role in a movie like this. And so for me, I'm a little less interested in that. And I think it's a little more daring to do the former rather than the latter, but I think it depends on how people feel. And I'm definitely interested to hear how you two feel about it. I think it's not necessary. Like I didn't watch the extended cut. And I don't actually know if I've ever seen the extended cut though.

My husband and I were talking about it. We watched aliens together about a month ago before I rewatched it for this. Because I do think that finding a child in that situation you are going to bond with them. Regardless, you're going to feel a protective instinct. Obviously, Hicks does as well. And we have no idea if he has a family. And then the other thing that kind of bothers me, but maybe not, I mean, it's just, bothers is the wrong word.

But I'm like, okay, so what's the implication for Ali and where she's supposed to be this like long-range trucker who's out there for years. Like she was always going to miss years of her daughter's life. So yeah, she doesn't expect her to be dead, but she was probably going to be like a teenager or an adult by the time she got back, regardless. Because I feel like the implication in Alien is they've been out there for years. So yeah, I'm not totally sure about that.

And this is one of the things like this is not a hard science fiction movie. And they don't spend a lot of time explaining to you how the physics and relativity and how the travel works. Because in that extended scene, she says, I told her, I promised her I would be home for her 11th birthday. Does it make a lot of sense? It would be possible. I agree from the first movie. And that's true. Did not seem like that would be possible. No, it didn't.

And on the other hand, there's some stuff in here, right? It's just kind of yada yada is the travel time. Yes, it definitely does. Although at some point they do say the rescue, they can't expect a rescue for 17 days. It's not like it's yeah, which seems rather quick. Yes, it seems rather quick to me. So LV 426 must not be that far away. But if it's not that far away, why did they need to go into hypersleep? Yeah, I'm not going to go stir crazy in 17 days. It's like, yeah.

It's somehow easier to cool them all down and keep them in freezers than to feed them for that long. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So there's the little plot points there that. Yeah, I think it's a sign of James Cameron not really caring that much about those kind of details. Whereas I think Ridley Scott maybe did think about them a little more. Yeah, and it's like the screenwriter I should say. Yeah, yeah. It's not like JJ Abrams level around. Of like space is tiny, you know, right?

Or you can you can see neighboring systems from you know around a different star from around a different star. Yes, but my head can't afford is that they do have some kind of FTL faster than light capability, right? But they have to be in the freezers to use it. My head can in for the 17 days is that obviously colonies have expanded a lot more since Ripley's time. It's just a closer unit, but they needed a unit to come from where Ripley was because they wanted to bring Ripley.

So 17 days is the closest planet, but that still seems way too close for. It does. It does. It doesn't sell or flight. Yeah, some kind of faster than light technology. First reason I don't like faster than light travel in this universe. I don't know. It just doesn't feel right to me. This is too grungy and like, you know, I don't know. It's like, I feel like you have to freeze yourself for years to travel is just like a harsh reality of this kind of universe.

I find that fascinating and sort of more on keeping with the vibes, I guess. Yeah, yeah, because there isn't any CGI. No, I think even in the later movies, I don't remember a lot of faster than light travel. I mean, I don't know. Yeah, I know. You know, I mean, in Covenant, I just watched that one, it's years that they're supposed to be out there, right? They say it's going to be like seven years. Like seven years. Yeah. But they're going out to make a colony, right? And this is a colony.

So presumably they would be far away. And I know Covenant takes place before all of this and it's bad and we shouldn't talk about it. So, you know, I feel like James Cameron right now would tell us he's soft-waring about it. Because like clearly, he'd not worried about it and we did not worry about it. Yeah. The problem is, is I worry about it. I know. Yeah, I'm with you. Yeah, but we're nerds.

So. I mean, it's once again, it is not as egregious as JJ Abrams where you can travel from one planet to another like that. But it takes you hours to fall from the moon apparently and start trick into stupidness. So, you know, like we just... Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Anyhow, so let's get back to the, like the deposition scene. The really great thing here is that, like Megan said, we hadn't seen Alien prior to seeing this movie.

And the deposition scene really does a good job of kind of giving you the bare minimum information you need to start this movie. Yes. You don't have to have seen the first movie before it to still work. Yeah, for sure. It does and you get so frustrated with them, but you also don't realize that they've had people now there for decades.

Whereas when she went there, there wasn't anybody there and so she's from that standpoint of, you know, just go and check it out and they're going, we did, you know. Yeah, that moment when he says, you know, 60 or 70 families, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And they've been there for 20 years and they've been there for a couple of decades. Yeah. And so, and she doesn't, she doesn't realize any of that while she's giving her deposition.

And so she's, you know, she's fighting against these people who have more knowledge about it than she does presumably. You know, she obviously has actually more knowledge of what's out there than they do, but, but she doesn't realize that they've even been there. So. Yeah. One thing that cracks me up in the deposition scene is when they're talking about how she destroyed the no-strom, you know, substantial dollar amount and then they say $14 million or $40,000.

I'm just an adjusted credit in adjusted dollars. Yeah. She's a very cheap spacecraft. That's a very cheap spacecraft. This is the same. I guess adjusted dollars don't work the same way because I just expected him to say, you know, $42 million. Yeah. That's not that much money. Of course, you think about it. I mean, in 1986, maybe that was a lot more money. And we don't know what adjusted credits, what the conversion rate is. It must be a lot. We assume.

Right. Yeah. So here you get in the extended edition, you get, you get a little more detail about the findings of the panel and how she's ribly is being removed from flight status. Right. You know, it's not something that I absolutely need. Yeah. I love. I think this is a really interesting bit of writing here for me because in the first movie, the company, Weyland Court, obviously through the synthetic in that movie has active role in things going to shit.

And the sort of oppressive company that everybody works for and is essentially owned by. Yeah. But they're a little more distant. It's like their power is still being exerted on the plot, but at a remove, whereas here we have like a bunch of guys sitting around a table, actively not listening to Ellen Ripley. And it's maddening. And so it's like another side of that bureaucracy of just like terrible shit.

And the fact that he even just calls it the company, it's like clearly it's a mega corp that owns everything. Yeah. And I'm just a little bit more pure dystopian horror of that is unfold display. And I love the way that James Cameron lays it out here.

Yeah. And this is you get the first little breadcrumb of, you know, Burke hearing the testimony and going interesting, you know, and then in the extended edition, this is the scene that I can completely do without where it actually gives you a preview of sex with people on it. It has new tender family going out and finding the like the space jockey spacecraft. And I think this is completely unneeded. It completely undermines the mystery of it. I don't like it. I agree.

That's interesting because I like that scene. Yeah. I do. I like it. So I like it as someone who has seen aliens before in the other version. And then it's cool. It's like, Oh, I never you never get to see this. This is so interesting. And yet get to see what the station looked like before it went all the shit.

And like you have all these characters who all got cut. And I find it fascinating in that regard. But I agree. If you're going to show alien to aliens to somebody for the first time, I think the theatrical cut is better because the mystery of it, you do lose. And I think that that I think the movie suffers a little bit for it for the first time viewing.

I totally agree with you. I like the addition of it because I've seen the movie. I had seen the movie a dozen times before seeing the director's cut. And so seeing seeing a little bit of behind the scenes stuff or things that were, you know, taken out or removed. Actually, it was just kind of exciting for me. And that was new and different. I remember watching that cut for the first time at a friend's house who also thinks aliens is the best sci-fi movie ever like I do.

And having those extras, I really enjoyed it. But I agree with you that if you're going to show it to somebody for the first time, especially if they have not seen alien, you really don't need that. And you shouldn't have it.

You need the mystery. Well, I think it also to me undermines new is a character a little bit like I don't need that little that little insight into her family because everything I imagined about her was so much more, I don't know, tragic and in mysterious and interesting as a character who had no backstory.

Essentially, other than what she tells us the little little bread crumbs we see, whereas we see her with her brother and her parents and she's just a normal kid and like, I don't need any of that personally. And to Mandy, you're like, you've never seen any of these scenes. And let's be interesting. I don't think I've ever seen the director's cut. Yeah, I know my husband has, but I don't I don't think I have.

Yeah, no, in the theatrical cut, it goes straight from the deposition to weeks later, Ripley has cut her hair, she's obviously. That's how you know time changed. She cut her hair. Yeah, she cut her hair. And then Burke shows up with Gorman to say, look, we've lost contact with the colony. Yeah. And it's a really, really good scene. And Paul Reiser is still his smarmy, you know, greatness. Yeah, where says kiddo again.

Says kiddo, you know, get back on the horse. Oh, yeah, he's so condescending about the whole like getting her getting work in the docs or whatever. You know, moving cargo. Right. Yeah, I was like, the why is that even shameful? Yeah, there's no way cargo like this seems like reasonable job. Like, and it makes complete sense to me. Like, even the like, she's being punished by being taken away flight status.

I'm like, no, that actually makes complete sense. You were asleep for 57 years, which is longer than anyone's ever been in cryo sleep. I feel like so they probably want to make sure you're okay. You also have major PTSD. So we're not putting you on a tiny ship with a bunch of other people like all your sort of symptoms have lapsed. They have. I just can't imagine like, like, you know, I have a master's degree.

If I was asleep in 50 years and woke up, everything I knew would be completely obsolete. And all I'd be able to do was haul cargo like that makes complete sense. Yeah. And I feel like he was making. He was making his point and maybe almost convincing her to go until he started shaming her. And then you're like, you know, and then he whips out the the kiddo and the get back on the horse and you know, that stuff that just never works.

And she gets pissed. There is a classic storytelling format being played out here with the hero refusing the call to action at first. And then later accepting it. Right. Exactly. I mean, so Gwerni Weaver is just we can appreciate her. She's fantastic. She's fantastic in both these movies. And just when she says, I said no, and I mean it. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, like she she is barely holding it together. And that's when, you know, of course, Burke is talking about her psyche, Val and that she wakes up every night and, you know, cover. She's just out in wet. Yeah. And you smash cut to her waking up like that again. I'm overcoming her fear in this movie. In the sense of confronting it that she does is such a powerful arc that I absolutely love about this.

I also do love that Gorman says you won't be going in with the troops I can guarantee your safety and the. Yeah, we all laugh. Yeah. That's that line made me think like, you know, oh yeah, I should stay up on the ship radio down, give them advice. No, they she literally goes in. Yeah. I guess she's in the APC or whatever. But yeah, she's in the APC when they when they find the townspeople.

Yeah, that's it. But, but she comes to the planet. Yeah, coming to the planet is not safe. But that's not safe. Yeah. Well, that's why she objects to it. And this is where we can move on to, you know, we get we get the Marines, right? And we end up down on a 2426 again. And when they go in there and they investigate Gorman very quickly is like, the air is secure. Whatever. Yeah.

What's it's a secure what? And we're all also saying what? So the whole thing about the Marines is I'm just like, why didn't they brief them before they left? Like, it's like they're waking up. They have no idea. Are you sure? But I'm like, what what's the rush here? Like if you're underway in space flight, you could have taken an hour before everybody wanted to sleep. Like, they don't know who Ripley is. They don't know where they're going. Yeah, they know.

Just a pretty like briefing, you know, yeah, she starts to talk and they interrupt her before she even gets to anything important. Yes, like she didn't even mention the acid blood. Like, I feel like this is important information. And they're just like, who's this chick talking to us? And then the other trope that Hollywood loves that I hate is like the useless officer.

And the like super snarky and listed people and they just don't work as a cohesive unit as if these people have never seen each other before. And I and I'm like, if you're going to do that Hollywood, if you're going to do that, your lieutenant needs to be an appropriate age. He needs to be 22. Like, you need to stop having these 35 year old lieutenants. Where the heck are you getting 35 year old lieutenants from?

I've never met one in my entire life. And I've met some old lieutenants, but they're not 35 like lieutenants are babies. So if you're going to treat them like a baby, yeah, then he needs to be a baby. And he's clearly older than like Ripley. So I'm like, I don't, I don't understand like he just he's been in a long time can't get promoted. They're giving him a crap assignment.

I guess I do agree that the friction between the like under experienced, you know, commanding officer and the much more experienced crew is a, you know, well trotting ground in a lot of military movies. It's something that they do a lot. I think it's always kind of a great bit of drama because we have a guy in a position of power and his decisions are going to fuck everybody up.

And he's not as experienced as the people who have to listen to him because of the, you know, the system that they're in. I don't know. I think like part of it is also this movie is so influential that like every other like space marine that we've seen since 1986 is riffing off of this. Yes, because this, this is an iconic group of characters. I love the Marines. They're so interesting. They're so varied. They have all these little quirks immediately when we meet them.

You know, the way they talk to each other, they feel much more like a mercenary band than an actual like marine core. And you get the sense that that's just what's happened to the core now. And it's like what is going on with this universe? And I love that it's not really explained. It's just kind of like that's what it is now. I don't know. I'm endlessly fascinated by him.

And then of course, like I don't know if any of you play video games, but so many video games have riffed on this and have used this trope when you have, you know, anybody group of fighting people fighting aliens in space. Even Starcraft has the Terran, which there's many different units within that game that even quote this movie. Like there's a drop ship captain who says we're in the pipe by five and like says exact lines from this movie.

Because I love because it's my favorite sci-fi movie ever. But it also has my least favorite line in any movie ever. Megan's always hated corporate Pharaoh. Oh, I just don't like her. Yeah, I'm okay with her dying. Yeah, no, it's fine. Yeah, we're in for some shot, but she's she's okay doing that part. I also really love the Marines and just being married to a military guy, although he's army, he thinks that Marines eat crans.

He's like, this is not actually unusual. This banter, you know, going on and you do get very close. So obviously this platoon has been together for a while because the first things they do is start giving you to other shit. And you know, a poem wakes up and I love that he wakes up sticks his cigar in his mouth. Yes, perfect. And that's the first thing that he does. I love that. And you know, and then the look into my eye is is my family cannon now. I mean, really it's it is in my family.

I have teenagers. So we do that to each other quite a bit when somebody says something really dumb. And there's so many classic lines in the sequence. Oh, this might be the most quote of the movie. I don't know at least to make. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like this in Princess bride or like the most portable movies. Right. It's like, hey, Vazquez, have you ever been mistaken for a man? And it's like, no, have you?

Yeah, that line actually James Cameron overheard that in a bar one time. And he's like, how do you recover from that? Yeah. Yeah. Basically everything Hudson says. Yeah, everything says, but I love the relationship. So yeah, yeah, he's so good because he's so whiny, but but then he can, you know, he can really pull it out in places.

And then he also is just, you know, he's he's a weak guy. Yeah, but I do love the relationship between like Vazquez and Drake, like they're both the ones that have the big things. And, you know, they obviously really love each other.

And when he dies, of course, she's heartbroken. So it's, yeah, there's no sense that it's a romantic thing either. Right. No, no, I think it all it's just that it could be who knows, but yeah, you don't know for sure, but I, yeah, and it's all right that that is not said or or anything you can think it or you cannot think it.

But they're, you know, obviously, close, they train together, you know, these guys have been together a lot. They know that Hudson's a whiny butt and, you know, and then you throw in, you know, Ripley who and Gorman. And of course, Burke, who's an idiot, but, you know, Gorman being there, it's not unusual actually to have somebody who has skipped over the grunt phase.

And, you know, because they had a college education or whatever and they get into the, you know, that's why he should be 22 and he's over them and he doesn't have the experience. And, yeah, so it's, you know, just from a, you know, the spouse of a, you know, being spouse to a military person, he's like, it can happen. But they, yes, I agree with you, he should have been younger. Maybe it was, there was a fault in the, in a freezer one time and he ended up having to spend a few years.

No, I just think Hollywood really doesn't understand military ranks. You get it all the time, right? Yeah, even in, it's like Captain America when they find him at the end in the frozen shield, like the guy who finds him says he's a lieutenant, that man is clearly 45. Like, there's no such thing as a 45 year old lieutenant, like, that's just not he's possible. Like, so unless they've gone down in a rank for something.

Oh, yeah, yeah, like, then I just kicked out at that point. Yeah, exactly. Why stay? I do want to talk more about the Marines and the interesting thing about the casting of the movie is, you know, they're shooting this at Pinewood Studios in London and are in the UK. I'm not sure if it's in London. And they basically with the production company are told you, you have to hire people locally.

And so they just basically do a mad dash looking for any American actors who live in England or English actors who can do a credible accentless American accent. And it's very common today to find British people who can do a good American accent, not so common back then. Pharaoh actually is British. But a lot of the others were just people who were living in London.

And so the fact that they got so many really great character actors cast in this movie is something of a miracle just because they really were limited on who they could bring over from the United States. Well, in Al Matthews actually was in the Vietnam War as a Marine. He wasn't a drill sergeant. I've heard people say he was a drill sergeant, but there's no record of that particular, but he was a Marine.

And so he can do a really credible, you know, version of a Marine drill sergeant or, you know, they're, they're sergeant for sure. And yet he was also a jazz singer. Yeah. So then with with the Marines, they actually kind of had gotten them together and trained them as a unit a little bit and they had them customize all their gear and everything. And James Reemar had been cast to play Hicks.

And at some point during the casting process, Michael Beans agent had reached out to James Cameron and said, you know, hey, you got anything for me in this movie. And he's like, now I had a role that I thought I'd get you for, but we cast somebody else and, you know, he just wanted to go a different direction. So then James Reemar during production gets caught buying an eight ball or something from a British cop, you know, heroin and cocaine or something.

Essentially, he's facing like a decade in prison for this crime. And so Gail on her goes over there and goes, is there anything else we can do? And they're like, well, we can deport him. And they're like, yeah, ship his butt out on the next next plane. So he gets deported out of England. And they have to bring in Michael Bean to that role.

And he's so perfect. Yeah, I can't imagine anyone else. No, I, yeah, there is one scene with James Reemar in it when they're first going kind of into the big tunnel that has all the the resin and stuff. Yeah. You can see his back and just or the side of his face. And I think that's just so chill, right? He's like, he's done this a hundred times. Someone wake up, you know, someone wake up, it's well, and to have somebody.

And that's my husband to on something like that. He drove tanks and he said every time he, they came to a stop. Yeah, I mean, you make sense. You can't do anything like being awake doesn't help in that moment. So catch some sleep. Get sleep where you can. Yeah. And he's a nice foil for the fiery people. Like, like, he's the complete opposite of Hudson who's just talking nonstop about how much of a bad ass he is literally.

Right. Right. He's over the top that that's why I love Bill Paxton here because I feel like you wouldn't even believe this character in many other actors were doing it. I still believe that this is a real guy and he's just like this. And he's just kind of awful. I think there's always, you know, one of those guys that everybody's going, mm-hmm. But you have to have that because if everybody's chill, then it wouldn't be, it wouldn't be fun.

Well, and it helps us keep them keep them all separate in our minds. I mean, there's some others ones that, you know, don't say a lot, don't do a lot. Like with a core group of the Marines, he characterizes them self-assed. We can tell them all apart. We come to care for them and at least be interested in them so quickly. I think it's fantastic for such a big guy.

And I think Hudson works despite his panic because when he's told to do something directly, he does it. Right. He gets the thing done. He just can't think for himself, which is not untrue of a lot of people in a unit. Right. You have leaders and you have people who aren't leaders. And Hudson is not a leader, whereas Hicks is a leader. Right. He can think through a situation and he can make decisions.

Yeah. Yeah. But he might not want the job. Right. No. All the characters have more than one note. Right. Like they're all complex. Even if it's like they have a few layers to them, even someone like Hudson. Yeah. One thing that I made a note of is when Gorman is talking to them the first time. He he comes up, but he puts his back to them. And then he turns around and it's sort of this mock power move. Yeah.

And yet, you know, you look at it and you're like, oh my gosh, they would all be just like, yeah. Whereas, you know, he's thinking, this is, this is my power move. All right. I'm going to address the troops. Yeah. And yet it looks really stupid. And Gorman even thinks he has to like eat separate from them. Right. He eats with Burke and Ripley and not with the, you know, crew.

When it's like he should be as a leader at this point, since he's not worked with them before, he should be getting to know them individually. So he could know how they would respond or react. And instead, everything is like a surprise to him. And he makes some bad decisions. Yeah. Yeah. And the introduction of Bishop here too. Oh, I love Bishop. Definitely interesting. It's funny because we would see this play out again. I was thinking about this like a with Terminator. Right.

First Terminator movie, the Android, the machine is purely evil. And the second one we introduced the idea that maybe they're not so bad or some of them might not be. We get the similar arc here for Bishop where at first she does not trust him. And then she comes to over time. I always find the, the, what did you say artificial human is what he prefers? Artificial person. Artificial person.

I find them fascinating in every alien movie. I always love them. And in Romulus once again, probably the best tremendous performance. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I got to see. Yeah. Yeah. I love that Bishop. That's the third best alien in my opinion, by the way. I think it comes in after aliens agreed. I love that Bishop basically says he's three laws safe. Yeah.

Basically, as a mob's first law. And he's like, oh, an ash was unstable anyway. And you know his model. But like if you remember like an alien, like I feel like it's not that ash isn't necessarily three laws safe. It's that he's given an order that like he has to do. Yeah. But it puts everyone in jeopardy. And if you were going to go truly as Mavian, that's the kind of thing that makes robots crazy. Right. When they're given directives that are in conflict with each other. Yeah.

And I feel like that's the exact situation ash was in. Whereas Bishop, it only ever has one directive. Yeah. Is it is Bishop working for the company or the Marines? That's not clear to me. They're not clear. They're not clear. The Marines, right. And in fact, it's kind of an oversight that he doesn't have any secret, you know, programming because you know, ashes is a is a, you know, a tool of the company. Right. And here it's Burke instead. I think he takes the ash role from the first movie.

I don't know that it ever says, but he is the only other one who can remote pilot the drop ship. So I mean he's obviously done it. And the Marines know him because they're like, do the hand thing. Like, yeah. I like the idea that he's with the Marines and not maybe not as directly a part of the company and that maybe that explains why he doesn't have any secret directives. Yeah. Why he's a stable because he has a directive, which is to be with the Marines and protect them. Protect them.

Well, and like Lance Hendrickson is so like he, he's so like humble and he's got that really deep voice that's really smooth. He's very, you know, just even keel, but he just plays it so perfectly. Yeah. He's kind of meek, right? He is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He understands that he's not a human and you know, so there are things that you can tell he should. He understands that he's like a second-class citizen. Right. Whereas they didn't even know ash was a robot.

Yeah. Yeah. That is true. That is true. I forgot that they don't know that. And I don't know if that's part of the new programming that the new robots of this era know their place. Quote unquote. But that's kind of the, I mean, we love Bishop. He's a hero. He does heroic things, but how much of it is against his will? Like later in the movie, does he really want to crawl through that tiny pipe to, you know, right?

Yeah. He, you know, for lack of a better term, humanizes him when he says, oh, I'd prefer not to. You know, right. So we're like, okay, we can kind of recognize that. I may be artificial, but I'm not stupid. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so when he does the knife trick, they sprung that on Bill Paxton. He did not know that's how they were doing it. It was, it was, it was a person's idea. And he pitched it to Cameron and Cameron's like, yeah, do it, but don't tell Bill.

And so his, his panic is kind of that's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Should we talk about baskets? You know, I think what the internet needs is more white people on the internet complaining about whitewashing and things. Well, you just told me they had to get people in Great Britain to play these roles. So I feel like that makes it not justifiable, but at least explanatory.

Right. Right. They evidently from a and there's expanded they, they, they, Janet Goldstein was talking about this and that they had, they were going to bring over an American bodybuilder. They wanted to go sort of like Schwarzenegger kind of thing and, and just teacher to act. And then they, they met Janet because she came in and I think everybody read for baskets. And, and so then that goes, she's, you know, she's quite fit.

And she was actually doing bodybuilding at the time she was unemployed. She was at a work. And, and so she ended up getting the job. She does actually have Brazilian ancestry. So, you know, the, okay. So Latina. But, you know, she also has freckles. And so, so it's a little awkward with, with some of the, the brown face and stuff.

And I've, you, you can look it up online and find think pieces from actual Latinas and Latinos and, and talking about how, you know, if this had been a character intended to mock Hispanics and Latinos, that'd be one thing. But this is like the most badass character of all time. Oh, yeah. And it's a really, really great kind of evocation of, of her. And the way she embodies her, like people have found her inspiring from, you know, all kinds of different people have.

So, I'm not really qualified to opine about that. It's, it's the 80s. Yeah. And this kind of stuff happened and usually it's done to mock. And in this case, it was not. Yeah. Is she American or is she British? She is. She's American. Because she also plays an Irish woman in Titanic. And so it's like, I have no idea. Right, right. And John Conner's foster mom. Yeah. So. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. I didn't know all that. That's really interesting. I mean, she's fantastic character.

But yeah, I mean, I think if this, if this occurred today, they would rightfully be under fire for it. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Maybe, maybe, I don't know, the 80s is the explanation for the only reason that this is happening. And the thing is, like, you know, I have met people named Vaska as named Gomez, you know, all kinds of stuff in a variety of different colors. Right. There was no reason to put Tanner on her. Yes. Yeah.

And so, I think, I, although she does have freckles. And so, so I feel like, you know, the freckles are a little harder to explain, but yeah, but I, there, there are white Hispanic people, right? There are white Mexicans. There are, you know, white Brazilians. Like, I live in New Mexico, right? Yeah. Yeah. And periodism didn't just happen in the United States. It happened all over the place. Right. So it's like she could have had the name Vaska's and been white.

Like there was no reason to, uh, tan her up. Yeah. So, yeah. So it's, it's a thing. Yeah. You, you mentioned Seth about the soundtrack and the, the composer. And one of the things I love is when they're loading everything up, it's just drums. Yeah. And it, it feels military. Um, and, and because of, I really feel like that is because of the soundtrack and just that, that drum roll that they're doing behind that scene as they're loading up. I love the soundtrack.

James Cameron didn't, didn't love the score. And, and so he kind of mandated how it was used in like, I'm like, well, okay, well, I like this piece with the, like the, the annual strikes in it, you know, we use that in lots of places. I, I feel like one of the things that aliens does better than alien is there's a bunch of female characters and none of them are screaming. Whereas in, right, you had Ripley and then you had the blonde girl whose name I can't remember and she was super screaming.

Like that was her role to be the screaming girl. Um, and even Newt's not super screaming. Like, I think she has like, one or two scream, uh, but she's not, it's not like, because she's so quiet at the beginning of it, right? Right. Yeah. But it's just like screaming at a point that it's not appropriate. Right. But it's like all these women have their jobs and they're actually really good at them. Right. Like, the plane doesn't crash because the pilots bat at her job.

The plane crashes because they're bad at quarantine. Right. And, you know, Vaska is very good at her job. Yeah. And the airplane should have never been open. It should have been closed. Yeah. That was a really, well, not on Spockfire. I am blaming that on Spockfire. Yeah. Yeah. But like, you know, in any other 80s movie, I feel like Hudson would be the female character. Like, canikin, you know, and it's just like all, like Vaska has it under control the whole time.

Like, the one time when she kind of loses it is when Drake gets killed, right? Yeah. When Drake gets killed. Yeah. Which is understandable. Like, you know, like men in war movies get upset when their friends get killed. Yeah. So that she doesn't as much as Hudson though. So. No. Yeah. Yeah. No Hudson is much more whiny.

I think Hudson, to me, was always someone it was like an early example of someone who was a very poor, you know, example of masculinity compared to a Hicks, who was a little more. Someone that I would aspire to be like, you know, it was like the guy who just wouldn't stop talking about how great he was. And, but, you know, when it came down to it, you know, showed that he was actually not.

And Hicks, who was just kind of quiet and did his job and was a badass without having to talk about how he was a badass all the time. Yeah. Yeah. I do like the little banter on the on the drop ship where Frost and Crow are talking. You really don't hear anything from Crow and Frost has that great line, you know, what, what are we supposed to use? Harsh language. But, but really he's out really soon. But there's that little, little bit of banter of the, I got a bad feeling about this drop.

You always say that. You always say that. You always say that. You got a bad feeling about this. Oh, well, yeah. Well, all right. When we get back without you, I'll call your folks. Yeah. And there's that, you know, that just that camaraderie of that, you always say that I have a bad feeling. Yeah. Is that a Star Trek or a Star Wars reference, I should say? Bad feeling about this. Yeah. I'm not sure that it had really, I guess there were three movies been then. So, yeah, probably.

I mean, I do enjoy in the extended edition. You have Hudson talking about how he's the ultimate badass, you know, and he's going through everything that all the ordinance that they have. And it's like, we got nukes, knives, sharp sticks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then Apo would find like shut up Hudson. Just being done. Yeah. And, you know, when I was watching this with with my son the other night and so they first they get to LV 426, right? They land the whole drop ship stuff.

The externals don't look great, right? They look like 80s, you know, rear projection and in camera effects. I wouldn't mind seeing like a 4k remaster that we did some of that, but then it would look good. Look bad. No, don't redo it. Don't redo it. Let it be. No, if they see GI it up, I will not watch it. It has the, the, there's a charm to it. Practically, yeah, exactly. The charm of practical effects, right? Well, and what Luke said, it's, it's kind of Grammy.

Yeah. You know, and it's okay if it's Grammy, it doesn't have to be book Rogers. You know, it doesn't have to be clean. Luke is doing what he did to the original trilogy of Star Wars films is, is poison so many things like that. Just leave them alone. They're classics. I mean, there's a way to clean it up. Like they cleaned up, but like the original Star Trek, right? Where it's, it's not that they moved it to CGI.

They just kind of went back over it and removed like the lines that were very clearly holding up the enterprise models. Yeah, but right. The remastered Star Trek, the motion picture is really good looking. Yeah, it looks very nice. And the director's copy. Oh, oh, it's, it's a much better movie than I remembered. I rewatched a couple years ago. I'm like, you know, this is a really good movie.

It's just Star Trek. The motion picture is a great episode of Star Trek that they made really long to make it a movie. So. Yeah. Well, but that's the thing I would get enough topic. But like Star Trek movies lose the threat of what Star Trek is sometimes and they're like, we'll make an action movie. Like, but that's not what Star Trek is. Yeah. Yeah. So with aliens and the drop ship, I did have one complaint that's not related to CGI is that why the hell did they leave no one in space?

Like, right. There should be someone in space. Yeah. Whether that's Ripley and Burke and Bishop, like that would make sense to me. Why would you bring these civilians down to the planet? That seems dumb. And like completely abandoned the big ship. Yeah, I like that it makes it makes no sense whatsoever. The fact that the movie essentially cops to the fact that the sonaco is completely empty when they make it is weird. It is very weird. Yeah. I just don't worry about it.

I could just hear James Cameron telling us, don't worry about it. Yeah, but then later they have to pile it down from like there should have been someone up there who could have brought it down to you. And then that would be the point when the ship is empty. But like this just doesn't. Yeah, it seems like a poor going back to it. They didn't brief them properly. Maybe it's Gorman didn't think this all the way through. Like someone did not plan this all the way through.

Whether that's Burke trying to like make it a cluster from the beginning because if there were people on the ship, he can't you know bring his stuff back or whatever. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if anybody poorly planned this. Of the requisition forms and lost the page for the second unit of Marie. Right. They did not bring enough trees. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Line item veto on that. Yeah. So yeah, they you know they of course they land on Elv 426.

The first entry into the building I go saying I was watching with with my son the other day. And he said I love the sound of the motion tractor. Trackers. It's just like a metric. Yeah. And it's like part of the score. Yeah. For sure. And it comes that pulse to that you know they increase in frequency as things draw closer, which is a perfect way to ratchet up our anxiety. Yeah. Exactly. It's like their heart rates. Right. Yeah. I'm pretty sure that's in the first movie.

And this is something that has been carried through all of the films. I feel like they have it in the first movie. Yes. The motion tracker. Yeah. So the motion tracker in the first movie is more Jerry rigged. Yeah. It's it's my diver. Right. But is so. So yeah, they get into the compound right. And they find the some of the dead and a couple of the live face huggers. Right. And that's I love the looks like love it for sight to me.

Yeah. Although when you know when they're when they're when they're in the drop ship. Ripley says the structure looks intact. But when they go in the lab, it's raining inside. So there's obviously you know there's been some. Yeah. And then they found something that they didn't they didn't spot. You know until they've been inside. And we don't know if it's open to the outside or if it's you know broken plumbing broken Yeah. Yeah. Could be like a pipe or something.

Yeah. We basically hear that there was some sort of last stand here. Yeah. Which is so ominous and then there's no bodies. And like this is the stuff that I think works even better if you haven't seen anything. Prior because it's so mysterious. And I think that's a really powerful bit of like I don't know subtlety in your storytelling.

When you can when you can omit knowing that the the audience is going to just going to be thinking up crazier things than you could ever put into the actual story. Because I know I did like I had all this head cannon about like what could have even happened. And we still are left with a lot of that because we don't know exactly what happened. But something about seeing the people. I don't know it. It just takes a little bit of that mystery away.

Yeah. Well, and I think even if you've seen Alien like it works because the aliens in this do not behave like the Alien and Alien because it was by itself. And these aliens are being controlled by a queen, which we don't even know a queen exists at this point. Yeah. I wonder if they have I don't know what they talk about this in the director's or the sorry the documentary you the lifecycle of the. Whether or not this is something that like the original creators.

Like would agree with because I don't even know if they would like this version of that. Someone had to lay the eggs like they're clearly eggs. They didn't though because in the original like in the screenplay and I'm not sure if it's in the novelization. But I have seen like behind the scene stuff for Alien where Dan O'Bannon I think who wrote the. They go down this screenplay had envisioned that essentially the cocooning process turns a human being into an egg.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. So they I know they're based off of these these wasps a lot of a lot of it. The biology and they even found these wasps that can lay the eggs in the bodies of I think it's caterpillars. And you know there's the sort of chess bursting thing from from real nature because often you can find some some great you know horrors and our own bio our biological world.

To draw inspiration from and yeah, I don't know the queen the queen thing was I like when Hudson says like what did he say it's like an ant ant high and there's no such thing as an ant high and it's like no it's perfect because that's actually what it is he's basically laying it out for us so that we understand it. Yeah, we don't get that scene in the in the theatrical cut.

Interesting. Okay. Yeah, you still have the bit where you start getting Bishop looking a little sus right where he's dissecting the the the dead face hugger right and which is full of like chicken gizzards and stuff. Yeah. And it looks fantastic. I mean it just really works.

Yeah, and then spunk my comes in there and says you know you need anything any kind of turns around and she's like no. And so you're like is he going the direction of ash well you know once you've seen that you start you start thinking you know what's going on in there. But then yeah you do have the decision about or the discussion about Ripley saying you know something's got to be laying these eggs right.

That we've got a lot of people that have been pushing it down to keep the Bishop's like it must be something we haven't seen yet. Yeah and it's it's good for shadowing. But yeah, it's very different than I think they actually there were there was like storyboards for the the alien life cycle from from the first movie. But fortunately they didn't do that. And so James Cameron was able to come up to the Queen. Well interesting thing is a prometheus.

And so, you know, and then that it's kind of all different because there's something in the water and then there are eggs and there, you know, yeah, and then there's the weird alien thing at the very beginning of that movie. So, you know, yeah, there's. It's gotten incredibly messy over the years. Yeah, it's a retcon.

What's canon and what's not canon? It's one of the tricky things when you have all these different people who are making canon within the same universe because it conflicts with each other. You get this all the time in comic books stuff like that where it's like things don't agree.

And yeah, it's interesting. You go back to the original and I wonder if you talked to was it Dan O'Bannon? You said, you've talked to him like how he feels about a lot of what's gone on later in the franchise would be I'd be interested to hear. Romulus kind of pulls them together, though, finally, finally kind of closes the loop between Prometheus and A. Oh, yeah, I definitely need to watch it then. Yeah, yeah. What I like is that I think you could miss it. But yeah, yeah.

What I like is when they arrive and they see the I mean, they're they're they haven't discovered the aliens yet, but they find, you know, and they're like concentrated acid for blood. And they're like, oh shit, she's telling the truth, you know, and then they then they discovered the lab. I absolutely love it and it's so tiny, but when Ripley looks in the lab and sees them and then Hicks goes to move her out of the way she jumps.

And you can tell it's just it's so good. It's such a subtle little PTSD moment that you might miss, but I love that scene. And there's no speaking. It's just her going, oh, you know, when he's just gently moving her out of the way. Yeah, that's excellent. I was thinking about that one as well. I was going to, yeah, I just realized I have a line written down in the middle of here in of my notes that says, you know, stop your grinning and drop your name.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was going to lead off the episode with that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, stop your grin. That's what he says when he likes spots were all the all the the colonists are where all the colonists are. Yeah, because at this point, yeah, at this point, we don't know where they've gone. There are no bodies. There's just this, there's food still sitting around and, you know, two live aliens in stasis, but not, well, not stasis, but, you know, in

preserve water or whatever it is, preservative. Yeah, jars, but we still don't know where they are. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, now we finally get the first encounter with the aliens. And I'm going to try and pick up the base here a little bit because going an hour. And so this is where, you know, yeah, Ripley stays behind on the APC with Gorman, of course. And the Marines go in and it all goes very poorly.

And part of it, you get some more of Ripley's competence because she's looking at where they are. And like, hey, what's that? What are those guns fire? Oh, yeah, yeah. You find out that Burke says nuclear. So it's just evil in the side of God. Yes. Some of us say nuclear. I don't know. No, we don't. We do. Because we're from the south. I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, that's, and that's one more thing that makes me not like him. Just from a grammatical teacher sense.

But so, you know, this is where you get the moment where they have to collect magazines and frosts got the great line. What the hell are we supposed to use? Man, harsh language. Yeah, so, yes. This is this is Gorman's like one really bad decision, right? Not to collect the magazines, but that he doesn't tell them why because it would tell. Tell them why any more effort to be like, because if you this place is nuclear and if you shoot something, you're going to blow us all up.

Because then I think the Marines would be like, oh, yeah, but instead because they think he's being dumb, because they think he's a dumb lieutenant, they're keeping magazines. They're hiding guns. So then what do they do? They shoot it. This place is going to go and blow up. Right. And even Hicks has that that shotgun. Yes, that he doesn't think is going to be a problem. You know, he's obviously thinking it's this, you know, maybe it's the machine gun that's an issue, not the shotgun.

You know, it's so maybe there's some, there's some sense to that with like scatter shot and stuff versus armor. Right. So yeah, exactly. Yeah. But I had just have to say this sequence is probably the one I remember most when I think of this movie as just just I don't know, stunning piece of film. Honestly, like them going into this hive and the full level of they don't know what they're walking into.

And just how badly it goes and how quickly it happens is just incredible to watch. And every time I watch this movie, it's it's like my favorite part. I just love this whole part. It's it's so memorable. I think I shared a story on my Instagram from it because like I just love this whole part. Yeah, yeah. So Gourney Weaver's, you know, acting when she sees the thing come out of the gale chest and she just feels nauseous. You can tell she's just sick and, you know, sending nude away and just.

Yeah, I mean, for all Ripley news could have been her mother, right? So yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I do think it's kind of funny because Newt's already seen like people be like murdered and dragged away in front of her. And so it's like, oh, yeah, a protector from that. Yeah. But also how silent the aliens are until you know, if they're being killed, they're sort of the screaming thing that they are silent. They move silent.

And you watch them with something moving behind them and they don't even know it's there. And that's where you're going behind you, behind you. I mean, this is almost like a Borg moment, right? Where it's like the aliens aren't going to react or do anything until the humans do something because they're sleeping because it's daytime, right?

And then this also gives kind of the implication of maybe they're like all connected in some way like they sensed the baby be killed. Like it's very interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And they, this is, you know, where or Gorman just loses it really can't function. My husband told a story about being in desert storm where there was a commander that you'd have to say, hey, should we fire?

And he kept saying, I'm going one up, meaning he's going to command, he's going to call higher. And they figured out he wasn't doing that. He had frozen completely. And, and so they just would say to him, you know, can we fire and they would just go ahead and fire. And later, Dennis found out that this guy had been promoted after that, even though he had completely frozen during this actual battle in desert storm.

And so, you know, that was one thing I was thinking of with Gorman as well. If he'd lived, he'd probably be promoted. If they promote him off of the front lines, he can do less damage. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. The whole chest birch or scene looks absolutely stunning. Oh, it's fabulous. So great. And the lady who, you know, who portrays that does it so effectively, it's just chilling.

Yeah. And it doesn't quite hold a candle to the first movies, chest birch or scene, which I think is one of the best sequins. Oh, yeah, absolutely. But it's a good, it's a good runner up. Yeah, you don't know it's coming in the first movie. And the actor didn't know that she was going to get sprayed with blood. Yeah, you know what's coming and the gal was like, kill me, kill me. Yeah. Yeah. And it recapitulates Ripley's dream.

Yeah, this is like an hour into this movie where like no actual action has really happened. Right. And this is an action movie and it takes an hour for anything to happen. And then it's a lot of action. And then it is like non-stop action. And that's very not like modern movies, right? That have to start with like big action sequences.

And I, yeah, I think it's interesting that your son really likes this movie set, because I feel like with younger generations that might be hard for them, that the movie takes so long to really get started. Well, no, he prefers alien. So he, he lives over the street. Yeah, yeah. Alien alien is much slower. Yeah, so. Yeah, yeah. And you have Ripley's additional Cassandra moment, right, where she's like pull your team out, Gorman. Right. Yeah. And if they pulled out right then, maybe they're okay.

Yeah. But he still tries to keep him in there, even though they can't use their most effective weapons. Right. I think in the scene that what, what's so great, the score is fantastic during the sound design. Absolutely. And then the decision to show a lot of like the heads up camera. Yes. It's very grainy. You, you can't see everything that's going on. It's, it's so good. I love it. Yeah, it's just fabulous.

Yeah. And the classic just so you're in the command center and you see all the life signs just going to zero and flat lining all over the place. And you see how bad it is. Yeah. Yeah. I also found that intro over. Oh, go ahead. No, no, go ahead. Well, when she, she takes over driving to, to go in and get them. And, and she's finally just like, okay, fuck the PTSD. I'm, I've, I've got to take over because somebody's got to.

Yeah. Yeah. What I find interesting with that is Burke actually supports her decision to rescue the Marines. It's his one leaving moment. Yeah. When it's like he could have been like, leave them all behind. He has everything he needs. He has humans. Yeah. He has alien subjects. He could have just been like, say my, say my, I think he says like you had your chance, Gorman or something like that. Yeah. Like he supports her. Yeah. Yeah. Even he is like a little bit multi layered, a little bit.

Yeah. Well, and I, and I think it's that, that's a setup of like they're still trying to make you think that Bishop might be bad. Right. Yeah. And so Burke's supporting getting the Marines. You're like, oh, Burke's not the bad guy. That's right. Yeah, they don't want us to know that he's going to be the one to betray yet. They don't want to take their hand.

Yeah. Yeah. But then when they're fighting over leadership, you know, after Gorman is, you know, knocked out and Carter's like, no, we can't blow the whole thing up. Yeah. You know, we can't do that because it's a substantial dollar value. Yeah. I can't authorize that kind of action. You know, and he's, he's still trying to be the company man. Yeah. And then. Well, he thinks he's a judge. Yeah. And Ripley's going, wait a minute. This is, you know, Hicks is actually in charge.

And Hicks is like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it sounds kind of reluctant. You know, and then he just, you know, and, but what I love is the development of the relationship between Ripley and Hicks as leaders. Yeah. Is that, you know, he looks like he, he looks after the character, he looks after the character for him as... And then, he looking after her and he really feels for the character. But the entire relationship and 100 times...

The secret people, brave, kissed out, old lover, hairy, collecting spirit. She's smart and she's like, I'm getting out of here alive and I'm going to get you guys out of here alive too. And how Hicks leans on her but at the same time sometimes has to grab her and go, we have to go. And he doesn't treat her like a wilting flower. You know, shows her how she's going to shoot a gun and admires the fact that she can take care of herself. I love that relationship. It is so important to me.

You kind of have the beginnings of that too. I mean, it goes all the way back to when she used the loader at the beginning. Yes, right. Right. I made a comment. I was like, Hicks is smile here. He's like, I like her. She's cool. A phone laughing about it. Oh yeah. But then, you know, in this moment, right where Ripley says, the line that I've probably said the most of any movie line of all time. I say we take off and nuke the entire site. Exactly. I say you only wait to be sure.

I said that when there's cilantro on my tacos. Exactly. I say that a lot about my office building because of all the cockroaches. Oh yeah. Nice. And then, you know, when they kind of talk around it and he's just a grunt, you know, no offense. None taken. And then, you know, he just like Hicks has the leadership thrust upon him and he's like, okay, fine. Farrow. Can you get us out of here? Yeah. Okay. Good. I say we take off.

You know, one strip like and I say you like to stop, okay, all right, yeah. 28 bro thanks me. I know that you're staying here with the chef and you were so lucky. I'm not going anywhere there for him to. Sorry. Is everything in your photography pet? Yeah. I sort of like I believe this screenت ferry has many friends, maybe five suppose to love winds are happy, 沒有 With the sicken salud kits. The deep love zone be interest. I think it's like these Goldman 때문에.

Yeah, and she hasn't even realized the full extent of Burke's betrayal at that point. Well, and this is when the Marines become a threat to Burke's mission. And so he's formulating that everybody else has to die. That betrayal is just so terrifying because they've set this up to be such a warm sort of safe space where she goes to talk to newt and they've got the warm heater on them so they're all bathed in this warm light the only time in the movie where they look this way. It's such a familial

like sweet moment. They're like, you know, cuddling together and then just we know that these fricking face suckers are loose in there. Yeah, it's unbelievable. And then yeah, that they reveal that it's Burke. You just hate him so much when he turns it old. When he turns the camera off. Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But then again, you know, you have your crush on Dwayne Hicks for how decisive he is when they get down there and he realizes the door won't open. Shoot the glass out.

Yeah. Shoot. Well, it's like the second to get shot. Yeah. Yeah. And the fact that that newt and I love that she trusts Hudson enough because she shouts his name. Hudson. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's a very redeeming moment for Hudson who's been on the white side. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yes. I also love just the difference in competence between Hudson and Vazquez because Hudson takes him 20, 30 rounds to take out. Oh yeah.

He's a sugar. Oh yeah. You know, they throw the one in front of Vazquez and it's just yeah. Well, I think also, you know, he's losing his shit at that point too. So he's like, just I'm gonna chill it, you know, and obviously in in this movie, there are endless clips of yeah. They're yes, infinite. They never run out, but they do run out of fuel for their flight. Well, in the turrets, the turrets run out. Yeah, the turrets run out. I do love the turrets

sequence where we're tracking the ammo and how fast it's going. Like I don't know, like I only that's only in the director's cut though. They don't show the really automatic ones in the in the theater. They don't mention the theatrical cut. Yeah. Yeah. They don't even know for sure that was in the theater. No, no, it's not. And and that's part that I think, you know, it just extends that scene. That's part that I don't think is really necessary. I like it, but I don't miss it.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it does explain why they break off and they end up going through the ceiling. It does explain that, you know, but it does it always the thought it was cool. It's just a cool sequence for me. I got the turrets and the tracking the ammo and how the the aliens like keep throwing themselves at it, but then they they at a certain point break off and and she's like, well, you know, they don't know that it was about to run out of ammo. So they just kind of get lucky at that.

Yeah. Yeah. Next up that was all really interesting. Come up and knock on the door. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that's another way around. Yeah. They find another way up and around. Yeah. It makes them seem even smarter and like, I don't know, I guess you lose all of that, which is which is a bomber. Well, the fact that they they take the upper route does does and the fact that they cut the power, right? And even it's going to react to that, right? How how could they cut the cap power, right?

They're animal. And then the queen can use the elevator. That's the that's the a velociraptor moment. Yes. I'm like a lot of the intelligence that we see in this movie for them. The one moment and I'll be curious to see if you if you if you all agree or not, but like I've never loved the idea that she is so protective of her eggs that she's unwilling to have them attack Ripley in that moment. I know we're skipping way ahead, but just we're talking about the kinds of intelligence that they

display. That moment where she tells them to like she basically waves off her kids and she's like, no, no, don't go don't go in here. We don't want to burn the eggs. I don't know. It just like she doesn't seem like like the xenomorphs are so beyond that kind of relationship to me. Like I couldn't imagine this creature caring, but I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. But it's also a scene where if would she have kept them off of Ripley and Ripley doesn't have to blow up all the eggs, you know.

Right. So, but we can get to that later. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, one of the things that the movie does well is right. The stakes keep getting raised. Yeah. To the point where I mean you can make an argument the the last one did we need it, but we'll we can we can get there, but you know the the dropship crashes, right? Yeah. Right. Because because of course they left the barn door open. Game over, man. Game over. Yeah. Yeah. I can't right. And then followed by right. They mostly come

at night, mostly, right? Yeah. Right. Mostly. Do we tell you didn't talk about her? The new the actor like she never acted again after this, right? No. No. She's a fourth grade teacher. Yeah. Yeah. One movie in your lifetime and it's aliens. Yeah. I think she apparently still from time to time goes to like Comic Con or something or yeah, or discusses aliens, but no, she's she's a fourth grade teacher. It was the same similar with uh was it Danny Torrance from

the shining also right? Right. Right again after that. Never acted again. Yeah. I wonder if um so Newt says they mostly come at night. Now obviously the aliens like warmth and humidity because they are in that very warm area where the um you know where she's laying all the eggs where they need that for the eggs. Um but I wonder are they light sensitive is that why they come at night, you know?

Um so I mean these are just things that Arizona on that planet, right? Yeah. I believe Hudson said it's a dry heat. Uh it's a dry. Yeah. Yeah. When everything's dripping. Yeah. Yeah. It's a dry. Yeah. Yeah. Knock it off. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. But that's also when they find out that you know if they're not reported back, they you know it's not going to be you know they can't expect a rescue for 17 days, you know. That's that's something that's you know what it says that's very quiet.

Yeah. We get that we get the of course the first hour is going to blow. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's the last stakes raising, right? Because at first they thought hey if we can hunker hunker down for 17 days, uh, cause Newt did it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So and then they have to introduce the you know that that they actually did puncture something and yeah. They fall. And so they have to send a bishop to pile it the ship, right? And nobody wants to do it. And what I find funny is

that bishop is actually like the safest in this entire sequence. Like he has to go through that claustrophobic tube which is horrible. Uh, I don't have severe claustrophobia, but I have enough that when I see that scene, I just the idea of being in there for. Well, he's welled him back in too. Right? Like for no reason, why are you closing it? I assume so the aliens can't get in. Right? Yeah. They're trying to

give him a gun and he's like, where am I going to put this? He just, it's a replay. He's doing wriggling. Like it's so crazy. Yeah. But at no point is he threatened by a xenomorph in his entire sequence. He's just like chilling, highlighting. Yeah. I'm loving that you're calling them xenomorphs. That just makes me happy. I think that's come to be the common term. They say it in the movie. I know. I know. I know. I just always call them aliens and I should call them xenomorphs because

it's just such a good word. When Gorman says it earlier, he's using it as essentially sending in for alien. Right? Yeah. But it's coming to me. The capital is specifically xenomorph. Right? Yeah. But it's also a power, you know, it's a power move. I'm going to use this big word for aliens, for aliens. Yeah. But I do love it. I do love it. And then Hicks, you know, Hicks showing Ripley how to use all that equipment too. And when he gives her the little bracelet thingy

and has that cute line of, does it mean we're engaged or any? Yeah. And yet my comment is still, it must be love. Like, oh, hey, man. Hey, man. Yeah. Yeah. This is why I don't like the third movie. Because I don't like him. And he's he's dead. But I also love that Hicks gives her the locator and then she immediately gives it to news. Yeah. But she has to. Because otherwise, she can't find newt. Yeah. You know, so it's it's one of those things that's like as a writer, you always hear

take out anything that doesn't move the story forward. You know, and it all moves the story forward. Everything has a purpose that they he gives it to her so she can give it to newt. So she can go and find newt. You know, it all has purpose. Well, it has multiple purposes, which is always great writing when you can have you can do multiple things at once. And she it also shows that she's like, I don't care about him being able to find me.

I'm I'm worried about newt. Like she's Ripley. She's not worried about that. You know, yeah, she doesn't need Hicks to be able to follow her. Hicks is never mad about that at any point. Like, no, no, no. When he realizes newt has the the locator. And I think I think that's part of why people, you know, for lack of a better word, ship the family of like Hicks Ripley and newt, because they act like a family, right? Right. It's like the father giving something to the mother

who then immediately turns around and gives it to the child. And the father has no problem with that because this is his unit, right? Yeah. It seems surprised by it later when when when they do lose newt. And he's like, we can find her, you know, yeah. Right. And he's like, I get it. She's alive, but we've got to go, you know, and that's one of those moments when he grabs her, you know, instead of that,

that, um, are you finished yet? Like he does with, uh, uh, Hudson earlier, you know, he does that to her. I get it. She's alive. We got to go. Right. You know, by then it's just the two of them and her and and newt. Yeah. She had done that too with with Hudson earlier, right? Where she she figures out, I got to give him something to do, right? Yeah. Give me the footprints and everything, right? Show me all the book. Yeah. Exactly. And, uh, and I mean, just Ripley's such a great leader, but, um,

yeah, we should probably move toward the end of the movie, right? Where where I love, but we've got two more acts to go. I know. I know. I love Ripley's loadouts, right? Because she gets, it's, it gets, Hicks gets hit with acid, right? So he's, he's taken out, um, and, and so it's, it's essentially down to Ripley. Um, and Hicks's only other role is not to let Bishop leave, right? Right. Right. And, um, and I love, I love when she gets on the, the elevator and, and the loadout

scene isn't some 18 build or, or anything, right? There, there's, there's nothing. There's no body armor. It, it's just like she still is vulnerable, but she is just setting her mind to this is what I'm gonna do. Um, yeah, I just love that. I, I love that. Hicks never questions that they're gonna go after Newt that, yeah, you know, that this is something we're going to do. And, and I feel like people could watch this and think it's a stupid decision to save the kid or whatever, but I feel

like at this point, they've lost everyone. Everyone has died. Like the three of them and Bishop are all that's left. And it's, it's, once again, it's that mother, father, dynamic, almost of like, if we can't save the kid, what is the point? Like, we're either all getting out of here or like, none of us are, you know? Yeah. Um, and so he's just all in on the, yeah, he could escape with Bishop. He's not going to. Yeah. Right. I do love the moment. I don't know if this is an extended

edition or what, but where they introduced themselves as Dwayne and Ellen. No, no, that's, that's, yeah, that's in theatrical. Yeah. Don't be gone long, Ellen. Yeah. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, I just, I don't think that is. And they don't. No, I don't think that's in the actual. That's extended. That's extended. Yeah. Yeah. And the theatrical cut Hicks never gets a first name. Yeah. No,

wait. Yeah. He gets a first initial. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then, um, you know, really down there, yes, it moves the plot forward because the, the mother really has to have a reason to come after Ripley. But, um, if she had made a different decision, not to just blow up all the eggs, because she, she knew that they were going to blow up anyway. Yeah. Right. Fuse reaction. You know, and they were going to do that anyway. And they, you know, now they don't have to. So would

the mother have come after her? Because she called off her minions. Yeah. Would she? So if she hadn't done that, because it really was not necessary, um, would, would that have happened? I mean, I know I would go after somebody if they had ripped my vagina off. And I would, I would learn how to use an elevator. Also, who designed this elevator? Because you hit the down button and both elevators come down. It calls both elevators. I have a lot of questions. Like James Cameron, don't worry about

don't don't worry about that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is an emergency. I don't know. I think that part of the charm of this movie is this whole like mother versus mother, right? Like clearly they both care about, you know, their children, whether it's the adopted child of Newt or the, the eggs here. And, you know, there's a nice symmetry to that. I see why James Cameron liked it as a story beat. Um, I think that's one of the things that has been a lasting, you know,

obviously the moment that they where they, you know, showdown is, is so iconic for that reason. But again, as I said at the start of the episode, it feels a little reductive to me for Ellen Ripley to make her after being so atypical to fit into a more typical role for a woman in a movie like this. For now, she's going to become a mother, a more traditional role that we see a woman like this in. I guess that doesn't bother me because some of us are atypical and mothers. Sure.

Like these aren't conflicting things, right? And these are different points in her life. And she, the fact that she was atypical in the first movie just underscores you can be many things in many situations, right? Like if you never listed my gender and listed everything about me, you would think I'm a man. But I am not and I am a mother, right? And that's a major part of my personality. So like I, I don't, I don't think that that's weird. I think it's just another

facet of who Ripley is. And I think because the first movie is so strong, it works. Yeah. Well, and there's, it's not like there's anybody else to send in there after new, right? Right? Ripley's the last woman's standing. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I mean aside from Bishop, but Ripley can't. He's got a pilot ship. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, yeah, it really is

nothing but her. Yeah. Exactly. Although I think like when she was, she goes close your eyes, baby, and they're on the platform and Bishop has taken off, I think there would have been part of me that would have been like, okay, we're jumping off this platform. And we're just going to end it because it will be faster than like she might have been considering that. I think she might have

been considering it. Yeah. Yeah. She might have been considering it, although still knowing that we're really only, you know, a minute and a half until the whole place was going to blow anyway. But yeah. I still would not have wanted to face that. Yeah. Yeah. No. No. And, and of course, you know, because of the, the reaction that's taking place, right? Everything's too unstable. And so Bishop can't even land, but he's down there long enough that he picks up some debris

that keeps his landing gear from retracting all the way. And this allows the queen to grab onto it. Somehow, it sneaks in there. Yeah. So you get back to the salaca. You have the false horror movie ending. Yeah. Which I honestly think the first alien movie was, you know, is absolutely iconic for that, that sort of fourth act that happens where all of a sudden the reveal is that the alien is still in there. And James Cameron, you know, I think smartly realizes that that was something

he wanted to do as well. So now they just become a stable and every single alien movie from then on. Right. Yeah. But yeah. Right. Although, I mean, the whole opening up to outer space and not having everything just decompress and everybody instantly killed that. It takes some time to get all the air out. So there's a lot of air in that bag. A lot of air. Big ship. Yeah. It's a very big ship. I mean, not as

just as in space falls, not as not as big as that. I do. If we're going to talk about inconsistencies, I one thing that I realized I haven't said yet that did bother me is the acid blood being incredibly inconsistent with how damaging and lethal it is when it splashes on people in this movie. It is a death sentence in most other times where it lands on people. But when it lands on certain characters, it's just kind of like how I get slightly injured and now I go on the farm. I'm really,

you know, yeah, I guess I'm people's plot armor and gets protected. Yeah. Well, I was thinking about that and because when I was watching the final fight with the loader where she comes out and there's the iconic line and don't correct me on this because I know I'm right. Get away from her. You that's in the novelization. We'll talk about that briefly. Completely neutered the novelization. They completely did. Yeah. But yeah, we can get back to that. Maybe I'll probably forget. But,

you know, she's got the alien in the in the gripper, right? And I'm like, just crush it and I'm like, oh, no, that would be bad because acid, acid, blood, yeah, acid, everywhere. We pour out and band everything to space. So yeah, but yeah, the acid blood in the rest of the series essentially, it does it eats stuff away at the speed of plot. So yeah. But then we also have the full circle of the alien being the one who really does, you know, keep newt from dying.

Oh, yeah. Whereas the alien or the Andorites, not the aliens, sorry, the Andorite keeping newt from dying. Yeah. When the first movie, the Andorite was the bad guy. So yeah. Yeah. And we really do have all the effects with Bishop being torn in half. Look fantastic. Yeah. Absolutely. They're fantastic. And you do have such a good job of having that milky substance in his mouth.

Oh, it's real milk. And it sat out for days. And he got very sick. Oh, no. So when my sister and I watched, you know, alien for the first time, we were drinking milk. And it was very traumatizing. No, you can't drink milk and watch that movie. It's like, you know, I the first time I felt a baby move, my sister, our older sister, Erin had, when she was pregnant, she was like, Oh, I'm feeling the baby move. And I told her, I have seen aliens one too many times

for that to be a beautiful moment for me. It's just gross. Yeah. And yeah. So so Bishop, not bad for a human is a nice line. Yeah. Yeah. And you get the full circle mommy thing, right? Where that's what Newt says. That's my other least favorite line in the movie. Yeah. Yeah. The 5 by 5 is the worst. But I don't really like the mommy thing either. I think part of my criticism of this sort of found family thing that I've touched on

several times is how, especially in the director's cut, how heavy handed it is. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe the, if I were to watch the theatrical again, I'd maybe like, he's off a little of the criticism because I think it was more subtle in that version where it's just kind of implied by what's happened versus it being so over the head. Like he's hitting us with a time and again. Like, look at her. She is now a mom again. She has now and got a new daughter after she lost her

previous one. Right. Right. Okay. But I'm never getting enough freezer again. I'm sorry. Like at the end. I'm not in the freezer. And I wouldn't make Newt get enough freezer. And she shouldn't because what happened? She's lost. Yeah. We don't talk about aliens. I'm sorry. Nothing. I believe my note at the end of my notes is they all live happily ever after the end. That's what I wrote. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If they do a song, yeah. Too bad they never made a sequel. Yeah. I don't know.

But I would not have gotten in the freezer. I don't care if it took years. I would not have gotten in the freezer. I could not. Especially if it's only 17 days to the nearest location. This is my freezing. This is my 17 days. No things. No. No. And don't think too much about that. Yeah. Only if that. Only if they have some sort of ultra you know, light speed where they can't survive it. Right. If they're not frozen, then maybe. But

yeah, no, I wouldn't ever. Yeah. Maybe freeze Hicks and you know, Bishop because they're like dying maybe. Yeah. But like her and Newt could have just been chilling. You know. Yeah. Eating all the cornbread. Eating all the cornbread. Yeah. One of my other favorite lines and we didn't talk about this boy, but it was red at the beginning was the, you know, and you, your little shithead. I love that line. Yeah. You're saying the cat. You're staying here. Yeah.

Yeah. Jones, who does he stay with? That's what I don't know. Who does he trust the cat to? No. No. No. Someone else in her luxury accommodations. Right. Oh. Yeah. Where has he been until he's presented to her? So, you know, wherever he's never going to see her again. Oh, they have a vet clinic. Speaking of park, my dog has come in here to start looking at me with consternation. Hey, you've been in here too long talking and not paying attention to her. We do need

to wrap up because because we've been going a long time. Megan and I were talking about doing this episode like a year ago and we both got the novelization and read it and it was written by Alan Dean Foster and he was essentially directed to make it PG. And so he quit. All the squares. Yeah. All the squares. Yeah. The shithead. He doesn't say it. I'm so mad at it. Yeah. And I kept texting Seth. I'm like, this is no, this is wrong. Yeah. But, you know, it was a paycheck for him and he,

he did what they told him, but I don't think he was happy with it. So, yeah. I did want to briefly talk about the legacy of aliens and like Luke, like you said, like all the colonial Marines games and things, right? I, I'm actually doing an episode next, I'm recording it soon, about military science fiction. And there's a lot of military science fiction that's extremely

influenced by aliens. I was reading terms of enlistment by Marco, Marco Close and like it literally references adjusted dollars and phased plasma rifles and things that are straight out of this universe. Yes. And I did pick up the aliens colonial Marines technical manual, which is pretty dry actually. Well, the technical manual. Yeah. It has at the end, it has sort of like debriefing about what happened

on LV426 and that's kind of fun where people are like, wait, Burk did what? And so that's kind of fun. But I also picked up, there's a, it's like a like a light novel, like a novella novellette maybe called aliens tribes that's mixed, it's partially art and partially text. And it has some stuff sort of inside the head of the queen and inside the head of some of the drones. And so it kind of ties in with some of the increased intelligence you see here. Yeah, where I mean, it's a huge expanded

universe now. I mean, we've got we've got Zena Morrison and Frickin Avengers and comics like coming together like there's there's so many like a stranger things obviously the most recent, the most recent one of the seasons like references aliens a ton. Even Martha Wells, one of the murder bot

novels, I think plot-wise is quite similar to this movie. So there's I just I see this all the time now and it's like it's become part of the zeitgeist in a way where sometimes I don't even know it's on purpose, but it's it's hugely influential, especially in like action action sci-fi horror, you those three together like there's no better example of it than this movie. Yeah. Yeah, final thoughts. I think I just keep mine.

Sci-fi movie ever. I will I will go that part, but it's it's quite it's it's the best action horror sci-fi blend. There we go. That's what that's what I'll award it, but I I fully grant that you know reasonable people can disagree. I mean I think it's just a lot of fun and there's not a lot of science fiction movies that are you know starring a leading woman and have a girl kid in it who's not like annoying or useless right so I think there's just a lot to love in this movie and I think

it is the most quotable science fiction movie. I agree with. I people quote it and I don't think they know they're quoting it. So yeah. Well, they may be quoting it from a movie that quotes it you know yes a different movie and not realize where it came from. On my letterbox I have it in my top four you know like where you get to pick your favorite movies so it's in there. If you want to follow me I'm just set easily on letterbox so. All right well let's go ahead and sign off.

Megan do you have any contact info or any websites or anything you want to bug? No I don't I don't do any. I didn't think so I just wanted to ask. Mandy go ahead. Yeah I have my podcast, Mandy Moneum where I discuss my favorite things or other people's favorite things so lots of different topics so you can listen to that on any basically podcast player and I can be found on Twitter at brown underscore aja that's ajaah. Nice little wheel of time reference I like that.

Oh I'm a huge wheel of time fan. Yeah you will find some some wheel of time content if you follow Mandy. Yes. Well you'll also find some wheel of time content on ink to film because we have covered the first two seasons and the first two books. I talked about it at the start of the episode but we cover book to film adaptations. We're at ink to film on all the social media as you can find us on all major podcasting platforms and on YouTube. Also if you like sci-fi horror I just

had a short story come out in the collection called Beyond the Vanishing Point. Lily just came out this month and if people want to check that out it is my first like sci-fi horror thing I think I've had published so I'm excited about that. Very cool. It's called Beyond Heaven. Yeah send me a link and I'll make sure to put it in the show notes that's very cool. Okay cool. Yeah. Thanks for having me on Seth. Yeah thanks for doing this Luke and it was great to get to meet you in person in

Scotland. Yeah it's great to meet you Mandy and Megan. Yeah. Me too too. Thank you everybody for making me watch my favorite movie twice in the last couple of days. It's been great fun talking to you about it. Alright bye y'all. Bye.