¶ HR Chat Show
Welcome to the HR Chat Show , one of the world's most downloaded and shared podcasts designed for HR pros , talent execs , tech enthusiasts and business leaders . For hundreds more episodes and what's new in the world of work , subscribe to the show , follow us on social media and visit HRGazettecom .
Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show . I'm your host today , bill Bannum , and in this episode I'm going to talk with Dr Ali Razar-Namati , group Director Human Resources over at iQualify UK .
Dr Ali is an individual with a diversified experience in HR and is known for his professional depth , skilled caliber , dedication and various contributions to the corporate sector and academia . His expertise is beneficial to organizations in developing and implementing the best flair that translates to the post pandemic world .
He says he has worked at various leadership positions while scaling new standards of professional excellence , charting new avenues of sustainable growth and consolidating his previous organizations and institute positions as a key player at the national and international levels . Dr Ali , it's my absolute pleasure to welcome you to the show today .
Thank you , Bill . I'm extremely happy to join you to talk about both academia , corporate and my humble experience , to enlighten the audience as well .
And you're joining us all away from Pakistan . Today it's the evening for you , so double thank you just for making a time for me during your evening . Thank you very much again . So let's get Chubsfield into it First off . Beyond my introduction there , Dr Ali , why don't you start by taking a minute or two and introducing yourself to our listeners ?
So I've got a very diverse profile . I don't know . So , having a short introduction , I'm a chartered manager from UK and , of course , I'm a PhD as well . Right , so I've got a blend of both corporate and academia .
And initially , when I used to hire people when I was in corporate sector , I served very big career in banking for national and international banks . So I used to see that , of course , there's a skill gap in graduates and this has really intrigued me to have my PhD .
And then , of course , it took a lot of time rather it took a toll on me to do my PhD while being in corporate , but then , fortunately , I landed in an economic sector and I'm extremely grateful to the Lord , of course , that I can now play a role for developing the young graduates for the right skill sets to be employed , and it is normally said that there's
no employment across the world , but of course , there is lots of opportunities available , but the skill set is missing . There's a reason why many graduates miss to be employed . So this is a reason why I'm playing a role with respect to my humble experience internationally and nationally both .
Thanks for tuning in to the HR Chat podcast . If you're enjoying this episode , we'd really appreciate it if you could subscribe and leave a five star review on your podcast platform of choice . And now back to the conversation . Wonderful , Thank you very much .
Let's talk a bit more about your experience and how that's shaped what you do today . You do have extensive and diverse journey , a career journey in both corporate and academia , as you've mentioned . Can you maybe share some key experiences that have shaped your perspective on HR and leadership throughout your career ?
Yes , yes , I can share two , three perspectives with you , right . So , first of all , one of the things I mentioned in the last question , right .
And also , when our college used to be in back end , we used to hire trainee badges and you know they were very fresh graduates and every , every time I used to interview them and I asked them what is your specialty and what is your nuisance value and what is your unique selling proposition ?
We used to say this is our GPA , this is our grade , this is our , we are past , we are unmarried . Where it is distinction , our GPS 4.0 . So they were focused on the grades normally they take in their subjects . Where , in corporate sector it is , it is always believed that of course , you need to have the right skillset .
So if I've been very put , I get very pertinent about my experience and the way I played a role that was , that was if , if , for example , if you get 18 and you get eligible to get a driving license , what if you do not know how to drive ? Can I put you to a driving seat ? This is straight .
No , but of course you are eligible to be getting an driving license in case being an eligible person and having the right skill set are died at the different table . This is where my experience came in and , of course , I understood the fact .
Of course we need to tell the universities in our experience is that we need to visit universities from the corporate sector , with which we call it industrial liaison that of course , we need to develop the right skill set for the graduate to be employed . And this what universities normally sometimes miss . They focus more on theories . They focus more on the grades .
Maybe the grades may play a role in getting scholarships . However , skill set is what get you the job everywhere in the world .
So this is where my experience came in , from this place that , of course , I used to hire people because I was in HR throughout in the last 15 years I've been a director , I've been in head , so I've seen that , of course , and we can play a good role for the young graduates while they are starting with the universities and this , and fortunately , I ended up
being in HR for our education institution and a university as well . So I did play a role with respect to my experience .
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the HR Chat Show . Iea training provides professional development to a changing workforce with changing needs , and we're proud to support this episode of the HR Chat podcast . Iea offers lots of courses , webinars and on-demand training to meet our students where they are and help them reach their goals .
We're proud of our contribution to better risk analysis and high operating standards in the industry . Learn more at IEATrainingorg . And now back to the conversation .
Just to follow up to that one then . So you know , as someone with a strong background in HR , including the strategic capital management side and talent acquisition side , dr Ali , how do you approach building and leading high performing teams and , as part of your answer , what role does HR play in fostering organizational excellence ?
Yes , so now , if I focus on core , on the corporate sector , and even at the senior level at different sectors , each human resources play the most vital , pivotal role now these days for running organizations towards success . And if you go back approximately a couple of decades back , you see that HR was very operational .
You need to use to approve leaves , you need to process leaves how many leaves are left ? You need to process salaries , you need to direct tax . However , human resources are is basically not operational .
A human resource is strategic and strategically needs to drive the organizations and now organizations as in while focusing on human resource , they need to have clear KPIs . So , if I get pertinent to about how can this leadership take advantage of having strong human resource and how did I make the management move towards strategic human resource ?
I've made them understand the value of human resource and made them focus on setting key goals , objectives and strategic objectives that are leading to key performance indicators to the individuals down under working in the department .
In case you do not have a right institutional goal , how can they be trickled down to the employees working for you and can you can reach to a similar goal in a similar direction .
So this is where human resource is extremely important at the leadership level and this is how you can play a role as a strategic human resource person to drive the organizations for achieving their goals by setting right KPIs .
Fidello Inc is a consulting firm specializing in improving human performance and we're proud to support the HR chat podcast . We help identify strategic competencies and behaviors that drive results . Our team offers an HR web software to manage systems , reports and data for HR people that need the best insights to make the right decisions and achieve better results .
Learn more at Fidellocom .
You also have a strong background in helping organizations digitize HR processes and operations . Of course . I wonder if you can maybe now share some insights into the impact of digital transformation and also , of course , ai . We can't not do an interview these days and not talk about AI .
So , from your experiences , what are some of those successful ways to digitalize the HR process ?
This is a very interesting question , bill , so I give you 10 out of 10 for selecting this question for me . So right now , I remember whenever I used to hire fresh graduates for my HR department , so I used to ask them to draft the policies , I used to ask them write this
¶ AI in HR and Personality Assessments
email . Of course , human resource is a department which we need to be having very good writing skills . It's not about the academic writing or knowing English . It's about how do you need to give context to an email and send this to an employee and how do you need to create a buffer for a bad , bad , bad email .
How do you need to create a buffer for a good email ? So email writing was more of a science . However , this AI especially if I call its plank or its charge BT has made life easier for the people working under me , and sometimes I feel that it is said that success breeds complacency and complacency breeds failure .
So I guess for a few of my team members , because of that , AI got a little complacent and they do not really get now creative . So this is the downside of AI , by the way , but of course , ai has really helped us saving time . So this may be a very good and separate topic we can discuss further .
However , if I talk about digitizing HR , especially if I talk about two major things , one is talent acquisition and second is for ERP , enterprise Resource Planning , for HR Right , for example . Hr should get paperless now and digitized HR in many organizations myself as an employee and as a consultant .
So if I talk about one fine example for a recruitment process , imagine you say well , there's a position that is social media manager and you say you apply on HR at xyzcom and imagine the person who is handling that email may receive 1500 , 200 and 1000 emails .
It's not humanly possible to segregate that those emails with respect to the eligibility and education and experience , with respect to the series . This is what software do for you . And you can have the talent acquisition software where you can advertise a position .
This is the series that gets sorted and then you can call automatically those people get called for an interview with the slots and then you can interview online and even you can issue the offer letter . This is how you can automate processes , especially for talent acquisition . It saves time , it saves human capital cost , it's in the process , gets very efficient .
This is one of the fine examples of digitizing HR .
Rock and roll . I love the answer . Thank you very much . Let's talk a little bit about culture fit now in terms of finding the right personalities , as well as the right skill sets and experience to join an organization . With your experience as a certified personal profile analyst practitioner , dr Ali , how do you integrate personality assessments into HR processes ?
Yes , so it's a very wonderful question and I would like to cater to different things in one question . So one is culture , and how do I need to cater personalities ? So there are many psychometric testing which really tells about the personality .
So , for example , if I suggest the listeners to introduce psychometric testing for at least leadership positions , leadership position if I talk about which leadership it's called level five leadership or servant leadership the culture may talk about the fact that what kind of leadership do you need to have with respect to the culture ?
For example , if I take an example , I was in a training as a certified trainer , so I taught that training . So I would not like to mention the country , but my trainer called me and said Nehmeti , you're the top dog of today's session .
So I had a clap and I was in a country at the time and then I came to a country and I repeated that I'm a top dog and one of the person came to me and said I'm offended , you're calling me a dog . And I said I'm sorry , but of course it means you're the top guy for today . And the professor said no , you call me a dog .
So I then understood the fact . Of course there are two . Cultures are never alike , so we need to make sure that , of course , we need to understand the culture so that the employees may get embedded in the culture .
So this is very we need to be very conscious about what kind of an organizational culture we need to set in with respect to the understanding of the context of what is said , what is hoped from you and what do we need to achieve as a team , right ? So this is where culture comes in .
And then , with respect to the personalities , you need to have flexible personalities , with being a sponge , listening to people , good listeners . We cannot have impulsive people , we cannot have reactive people , we cannot have short-term people at the leadership position , and for that we need to have psychometric testing .
And I used to do disk profiling , d-i-e-s-c disk profiling . This is one of the very good profilings by Thomas UK . So you know , in case anybody would like to do so , you can visit Thomas UK and I'm a certified in that . So disk profiling really helps you to get relevant people on board , especially for the leadership position .
I've not suggested the organizations to do it for the junior level positions , but of course this should be done manager and above .
That's interesting . Okay , so for manager and above , you say so I wonder why you wouldn't recommend doing it for more junior positions . Is it because , potentially , psychometric testing could be off-putting for candidates ?
You know , if they're looking for a job and there are different opportunities for them , maybe they go for the job that doesn't require psychometric testing . What are your thoughts around that ?
No , but okay . So , for example , for each psychometric testing there's a cost involved , there's time involved , right , and for the junior positions , normally they do not manage people . So I personally feel , in my humble capacity as an HR practitioner , that we should be more focused on the people who are managing team and managing human capital .
For some junior positions , normally the teams do not work under them and they only need to manage themselves and also to be managed . However , they do not normally manage the team . So it is very pivotal for the leadership positions managed and above to get this psychometric testing done Later on .
If the organization has a specific budget available , they can do that for a junior position as well . However , this is mandatory for them to at least do that for manager and above so that they can see if the guy may fit in or not , because there is a talent acquisition cost involved for each and every hiring .
There's a process , there are people , there's labor costs , there's an opportunity cost , there's a time cost . So if we hire a wrong person at a wrong position , it gets disastrous for the organization . So , for manager and above , they must have psychometric testing and I do suggest having this profiling .
Is psychometric testing and understanding one's personality . Is that as important now as it was pre-pandemic ? What I mean by that , dr Ali , is previously , before the pandemic , generally people worked together in the office . They had to get on well , they had to be a good fit there .
Today , a lot of folks work 100% or maybe down to say 60% , remotely , and therefore there isn't that same level of human interaction . Therefore , it is personality and psychometric testing as important as it was before .
Well , yes , a post-indomit is very important , right ? Okay , let me tell you something very , very interesting . So I remember in 2019 , I used to I had a very big team , so , as in Director H , I used to ask everybody that , of course , please use Microsoft Teams or Zoom , and nobody used to even bother to make accounts , and I remember they were .
We had 2,000 employees in one of the organizations and they were only , if I'm not wrong , 53 or 54 logins to the Zoom and Microsoft Teams . But soon as and even you know , many people have requested to work from home or getting the flexibility or working from a station closer to their house , so we never used to allow them .
However , soon as the pandemic hit , all the aspects and the paradigms have changed and people have gone to 100% logins in just one month . So this is how the complete scenario changed . And then , post-pandemic , it got extremely so .
People now got acquainted and acclimatized to a flexible working environment and , as a human , you have gone through a theory that is known as theory of classical conditioning , that is , of Pavlov's theory . So what if this becomes a habit or it becomes , in kind of an attitude to the human right ? Of course that this is possible .
This is possible to work in flex hours . This is possible to work from flex locations . Then organizations need to bend down with respect to the flexibility .
So now , for example , few people where organizations do not allow to work flex we need to check whether the person need understands the values of the organization more , or the attributes and the characteristics of his personality more .
So from the personality analysis we come to know that , of course , if a person can be compliant to organizational values , mission and mission , or the person is more compliant to the attribute he or she carries , and that person may want similar flexibility to be desired from the organization .
So this is the reason why to fit in post pandemic .
It's almost what mandatory for everybody to at least have these profiling in their organizations . It's going to help them . I'm not saying that of course if you do not do profiling the organization is going to shatter , but of course I suggest this is going to help them a lot and this will also remove churn rate . Churn rate is the attrition rate people leave .
So if you've got a churn rate of around 10% , it may bring it down to 2% if you do start doing profiling and this will save the cost for talent acquisition .
Just very briefly . What about pay ? How important is pay ? So we've spoken about cultural issues , we've spoken about ensuring that the candidates coming on board , that there is a fit there , but ultimately , what about pay and benefits ? Isn't that the most important thing when it comes to reducing that churn rate ?
Okay , sir , okay , so let me refer to your research . There's a research that , of course , in the generation Zs and the millennials these days , salary remuneration remains to be the second priority and their mental peace and flexibility becomes the first .
And it is a research of around 2021 from top of Fortune 500 companies , if I'm not wrong , and they said around 53% people have said that of course we need more intrinsic motivation than extrinsic .
So I'm referring for the listeners , I'm referring to the Herzberg's two factor theory theory , x and Y , where one are the hygiene factors and whether the motivational factors and in motivation it's so you are talking about the extrinsic motivation , that is , pay and salary environment . Yes , extremely important , extremely important . Everybody works for salary and money .
However , if you give a weightage these days to Gen Zs and millennials , they would like to have peace and more intrinsic motivation as a preference . So they leave the organizations more because of their bosses , not because of the salaries and the remuneration they're getting .
Yeah , there's these Gen Zs , that they do have different motivations to say the Gen Xs , that's for sure . We are coming towards the end of this particular conversation already . Dr Ali , just two more questions for you before we do wrap up . So my understanding is that you're involved with lots of TV channels . You're a very charismatic person .
Before we hit record today , we had a little chat on the video . You're a great dresser . How do you see effective communication playing into the role of HR and leadership , and what advice would you have for leaders aiming to enhance their communication skills in diverse professional settings ?
Well that's sure this is you again . So 10 out of 10 for asking this question to me . I started myself as a trainer to the communication skills , effective communication skills , and I say that very openly to each and everybody and the business . You can listen to me this quote unquote you know within with the bold and italic .
You know with the font of 72 as well .
If a person is not good in communication skills and if the person is competent , that person is useless sometimes with carrying such a weight of competency Because , for example , this is as equal as placing a product in a shelf which does not have a tag , which does not have a name , which does not have a color , which is not ever packing .
Communication skills lead you to be successful . It is a top trait Rather than , if I summarize it , it is interpersonal skills that involve your spoken words , your unsaid words , your gestures , your non-verbal communication , your dressing , your branding . You need to brand yourself through effective communication .
If you cannot communicate well , it means you are not selling yourself well . You will be more towards unemployment , you will be more towards getting unnoticed , more towards not getting a promotion , just because you are not selling yourself well , because you do not communicate well and communication is not speaking .
It is about understanding the complete context , speaking according to the context , way to pause , way to respond , way to react , way to show motivation , way to show enthusiasm , way to show passion . This all comes in communication Extremely . The most important factor in today's world for success is effective communication skills .
You are a master of that , sir . Okay , just finally for today . How can our listeners connect with you , dr Ali ? Is that through email , LinkedIn ? Are you all over other socials ? Tell us more .
Yes , I am all over the socials For the listeners in countries that do have the programs in English . I do have the programs in Urdu as well . Right , you can search me on YouTube . You can search me with the name of Dr Ali Razanemati on LinkedIn .
You can search me with the name of Dr Ali Razanemati , corporate trainer , on Facebook and you can write an email to me . I can drop in the comment box as well .
My email address is alirazanemati at gmailcom , so if I pronounce my name , it's A-L-I-R-A-Z-A-N-E-M-A-T-I at gmailcom , and you can search me on other socials with the name of Dr Ali Razanemati and E-M-A-T-I .
Perfect , and there will , of course , listeners be links in the show notes . That just leads me to say for today , dr Ali , it's been lovely getting to know you today . Thank you very much for being my guest . Thank you so much .
Bill , and it has been a pleasure talking to you . You are doing an excellent job for connecting corporate sector and also academia together . You have been doing a wonderful job . I followed you on socials as well . So all the best for your programs and for your upcoming benches as well .
Thank you , thank you very much , as always , until next time , happy working .
