I am so excited to see everybody today. Thanks for joining me and for the audience to hear , uh, about some really in , I I'm excited about this podcast. I'm really excited about this time I'm gonna be able to spend with a, a friend and colleague, Richard Best. And hi Richard. How are you doing today?
Hi , mark . Doing great. It's awesome to be present.
Good. So, Richard, as we get to, as , uh, death will definitely, as the audience gets to know you a little bit, why don't you tell me a little bit about yourself and , uh, and your background.
Sure. So , uh, educationally, my background's in kinesiology , uh, both undergrad and graduate school. Uh , both were really designed more for management level type roles in sports related businesses. And , uh, as , uh, life would happen, none of my jobs were in those areas. And , uh, it really kind of led me into healthcare.
So working as a paramedic , uh, and tied into emergency medicine to actually running a psychiatry department for a hospital in Dallas, and then eventually moving into my coaching practice. Um, on the personal side, I'm in a second marriage , uh, wife Kim is , and I've been married a little over 12 years.
And , um, we don't have kids, but I do enjoy golf as, you know, 'cause that's how we met and that's sort of a passion of mine away from, from work.
Right. Oh, interesting. Well, that's great to know. It's always fascinating 'cause I get to know something about people that I interview that I didn't know before. So I didn't know that you were a paramedic before. So, so tell me about, so what is the driving force? I know you've, you've, you've gone out and now you've started your own business or your own practice. Mm-Hmm . .
So why don't you tell me specifically about what was kind of that driving force? What was the, what was the catalyst there to actually create , uh, to go out on your own? And actually , uh, what's the story behind that?
Sure. Well , um, let's go back to 2008 mm-Hmm . . I'm , I'm in the beginning of 2008. It's , uh, economy's downturned. Uh, I'm actually running psychiatry for Presbyterian Hospital. And , um, what they brought me in to do and what they were needing in that moment, the skillsets didn't quite align as well as they could have. So we decided to part ways. And I'm sitting there kind of going see what do I do?
I think coaching is where I need to go because I'd actually done that. Uh, a mutual friend of ours, Chris s Dorf , hired me to help him with executive solution partners at one point, and , uh, learned that I had a talent with coaching and facilitation. So I , uh, I took that. And in that moment of 2008, the first quarter I am , uh, leaving a job, which means my income is decreasing to zero.
Um , I'm in the middle of a divorce. My dad's going through chemo. I've lost my house and regret, not really regrettably, but I was getting into a new relationship too early. But those all things were going on. And so really it was just a time of change and I felt God was leading me to that spot. And as it turns out , uh, my first client I found through my church,
I was
Interesting. I was ushering with someone that I hadn't had a chance to really get involved in a conversation with much. So I just simply asked a question, so what do you do when you're not ushering? And she shared that she was chief operating officer for a law firm. And she says , what do you do? And I said, I'm starting my coaching practice. Hmm . She said, tell me a little bit more about it.
And then she said, I think my boss would love to talk to you. And that led to my first client.
Wow. That is a great story. Isn't that amazing? Mm-Hmm. . And it's kind of ironic that happened in your, happened in a church setting. So that's, that's just fascinating. So that's a great story. But, so today, just because when we're, we're actually now segueing into, of course, the meat of our conversation around, so you're , you , I know that you, you you have a number of specialties, Richard.
So I wanted, so one of them, I know we're gonna talk about two of them. One of them is executive coaching. Mm-Hmm. . And then the other one we wanted to talk about as we segue into another part is around emotional intelligence. 'cause I know you have a lot of expertise around that.
So if you wouldn't mind , uh, could you explain for our audience, I know there's many facets to executive coaching and the work you do, but if you wouldn't mind just giving kind of a high level overview of what's your, what's your philosophy and what that process looks like when you go into a , a coaching relationship with an executive?
Sure. Um, the philosophy is really tied to some strategies, which I think we'll talk about in a moment. But the process really is around planning and contracting. And in that moment, the first thing that I wanna make sure happens is that there's chemistry between me and, and the potential coachee. Mm-Hmm . .
Without that chemistry , uh, the relationship won't survive , uh, from my perspective, won't survive , uh, a , uh, effective coaching environment. From that, you know, we, we will try to understand what the goals are Mm-Hmm. , uh, both from their , uh, sponsor as well as from themselves. And then we'll kind of take a look at measuring what that looks like.
And , uh, really prefer to do a 360 assessment, which measures emotional intelligence. Mm-Hmm. , uh, as well as how are they showing up in the different groups of individuals, their supervisor, their peers, direct reports , uh, other individuals, customers, et cetera. Right. Uh, from that, we develop a plan.
And when I say we actually, the coachee develops the plan, I give them a framework, they can have more than three goals because that's becomes unwieldy to try and work on. Uh, they have to be measurable goals. They have to figure out what action steps they want to actually do. But I help guide them through that process. 'cause many times they'll have a goal, say , uh, I want to communicate better. Mm-Hmm. .
And , uh, so I say, well, how should we measure that? They go, I don't know, . So , so, so fortunately we get to talk about how we can measure that. And then, and then once that's set up and, and the coachee, myself and the sponsor sign off on the goals, then we go into the coaching conversations. Mm-Hmm . And that happens on a weekly basis. I prefer two hours. Mm-Hmm . Okay .
Uh , there's always pushback , uh, by many leaders around a two hour meeting. Uh, so I try to set it up so it's , uh, I give 'em the option of doing it early in the morning , uh, say like from seven to nine. So we're only taking an hour out of a typical business day. Mm-Hmm. . Right. But , uh, I help them understand the purpose of that timeframe.
And, and once they try it on, they really embrace it because it's a time where they feel safe, they can share what's going on and not feel judged. Right.
Interesting. Interesting. So how is it that, so why is it so important? 'cause obviously you've, you know, given the timeframe when you started, when you started to , um, you know, your, your coaching practice , um, what, what would you say, why is it so important for companies or specific executives or leaders in those companies?
Why is it sp so sp why is it so important for them to, to look at and investigate having an outside coach for maybe one or several of their leaders?
Sure. Um, interestingly, I had this conversation with , uh, a new client yesterday about , uh, outside coaches and helping them understand that an outside coach actually , uh, can provide some psychological safety for the individual because , uh, many times they may think with an internal coach, they're gonna share that information that we've had in the conversation. Mm-Hmm .
The details, so that I don't want anybody else to know, or I don't want my peers to know that'll get shared and it'll be used against them . And so as an external coach, I don't have a duty to the organization to share that information. Matter of fact, in my contract , uh, always state that those conversations are confidential and I cannot share the details of them.
I can share high level aspects such as, you know, we're working on the goals, they know what the action steps are 'cause they've already signed off on 'em . So those I can share, but I can't even share the results of the assessments that we do. 'cause those belong to the coachee. Right. I encourage them to share 'em with their supervisor, but it's ultimately up to them.
So , um, so the outside coach I think, actually becomes more important the higher we go into an organization, because more is at risk for an executive when they are looking to share something. You know , it's lonely at the top. Right.
And so , uh, there's only one person, there's no peers and when you're at the CEO level, but still, it's, it's a safe place where they can feel , um, that they have the capability of sharing anything and not be judged that there's an advocate for them and there's no hidden agenda. So I think that's the reason why you want to have an outside coach.
Right.
Right. Uh, so that's, that's how I would approach it.
Sure. And you've mentioned just in the last , um, just in that response , uh, something I picked up on is around safety. Mm-Hmm . , you talked about safety. Do you feel like, gosh, you know, this is being recorded near the latter stages of 2023.
Um, do you feel like is the, the safety , uh, support system, the safety system for leaders, especially executive leaders now, is it , uh, is it less of a safe environment internally now? Do you feel like there's more, there's more risk because of what's happened in the last few years and what have you? I don't know. What are your thoughts there?
Because just because I really hit on that, that word safety numerous times and creating a safe environment. What are , what are your thoughts there, just out of interest?
Well, we're starting to dive into the neuroscience of the brain when we talk about psychological safety, right? Mm-Hmm . . And , uh, that's a big part of my coaching process as well , is that we wanna leverage how the brain functions. And so since the brain reacts to anything that appears to be a threat to self mm-Hmm.
, and there's five concepts around that , um, it's gonna react in a fight, flee , or freeze mode. So no matter how safe we try to provide it, if the brain doesn't perceive it as safe, then it's gonna react in one of those three modes. And so , uh, in reality, as, as what I've realized over my time in coaching as an individual becomes more clear about who they are.
For example, for me and my faith, I, I am a , uh, child of God. That's my identity. Mm-Hmm. . And as I become more certain in that, then those threats have less impact on me. So, for example, uncertainty is one of those threats for the brain. I'm not sure what's gonna happen, but if I have a better idea and certainty about who I am, the external factors don't change who I am and therefore it's less of a threat.
And so I don't get emotionally activated. And when I get emotionally activated, I lose access to focused judgment decision making . Hmm . Which is sort of the logic piece. And so, right . Think about a time where you've had a discourse with someone that you care about and an argument, and you say something you wish you hadn't said later, you start going, oh man, I wish I hadn't said that. Sure, sure.
It was in that moment, that's that process where that area of the brain, we can't access. So for a leadership, if we know that we're actually truly safe, that even if my title is no longer exists, then maybe I'll act with more confidence because those threats don't impact me. And that's, that's a big piece that I've probably found in the last year and a half. That confidence is really tied to us feeling safe.
Mm-Hmm. .
And so for me to act confidently in my role, I need to realize that no matter what happens, I'll still be okay. If I believe that I won't be, then all of a sudden I'm gonna start acting defensively and maybe playing not to lose.
Right. How interesting. No , that, that is so fascinating. And you know, it , it , it is so true when I've been in situations like that too, and I've had my own consulting firm now for 10 years, that in the corporate environment, if you get, i i if you, there are situations where you do not feel like you had the safety and you felt like there was the CEO was out to get you or something.
Like you had this sense of paranoia. What , what I would find is that psychologically I would never be doing my best work. 'cause I would always, I would always be questioning myself. Right . Versus doing what I thought instinctively is right. Versus, like you said, you're, you're playing defense and I'm, I'm doing things that create too much safety and that's not me at my best. So , um, so that's fascinating.
But , so what are some components , um, when you think about it, Richard, what are components of a good coaching strategy in your opinion?
You know, that's a great question. So , uh, the way I'll respond to that question is what are the things that, that are important to me in my coaching practice and how I approach coachees so that they have the greatest opportunity for success? Mm-Hmm . . And the first one is coaching is about the coachee. It's not about me. Right.
If I want success for them more than they want it, then all of a sudden it becomes more about me and me trying to force them to get where I want them to go. And that's not , uh, conducive to what I consider to be a , a phenomenal coaching experience.
I need to demonstrate curiosity, and I , I need to listen to understand versus judging and, and already knowing that I've got the right answer because I , I don't , um, being vulnerable with the coachee shows one , I I'm not perfect. 'cause many times my coach , the coachees that I work with, I appreciate the fact that I may share something that's going in my life that's not going very well. And they go, wow, okay.
So you , you do have issues, right? Because most of our conversations are really about them and their challenges. Sure. So I think they appreciate not feeling alone in a boat. Right. Um, giving advice suggests that I know what's better for the coachee, and yet I don't have to live out the consequences.
So instead, what I encourage even the, the folks that I work with is to share an experience that would, that has come from prior , uh, I mean , uh, instead of giving the advice, what's the experience that lends itself to the advice, right? Because then all of a sudden we empower the coachee or the person listening to choose what's pertinent for them and what isn't.
And and I've taught this in workshops and that's, that's the exact word I feel empowered, right. That people would say. And when they went through the differences between advice and shared experience. Um, one another thing is I guard against the breach in confidentiality.
If I, if, if I break confidentiality, all of a sudden trust with the coachee goes away and there's no reason for them to trust me or to even share in, in our meetings. Uh , I need to be an advocate for the coachee. I need to be willing to be wrong. Matter of fact, I tell them, my job isn't to be right. My job is to help you be right for you. Hmm . Interesting. Um, I don't pass judgment.
I may judge what someone's doing, but I don't pass judgment. So that's about discerning differences versus saying, okay, that really wasn't good. So my job is really to be more of an encourager. And so that lends me to be really, I get to be the good cop and they get to be the bad cop. They're gonna be harder on them than I I could ever be.
So I get to be the encourager and help them want to, to strive to be better and let them actually really kind of help them feel guilty about maybe something they knew they shouldn't have done or whatever. And , and the last thing is shared feedback. Good, bad, or indifferent with a authentic caring attitude. 'cause their brain knows the difference.
, that's great. Wow. That's a great list. So hopefully the audience, they were jotting down some notes along the way. 'cause that's such a great list to be thinking about and thinking about the relationships they're having. So what we're gonna do now , um, Richard, we're gonna take a quick break. Okay .
And then we'll come back with Richard Best and just a couple of , uh, just a couple of minutes and we'll continue the conversation there. Thanks so much.
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Richard, thanks so much. So we just had a, we just took a quick break there and we are halfway through our conversation, but looking forward to the rest of the conversation. We're gonna finish up with a couple of questions around , um, around , uh, coaching and some of your coaching work. You, you, you, you have in your practice. And then we'll kind of slide over and segue over to emotional intelligence.
So with that, do you think, you know, quick question for you, is a, is executive coaching or coaching itself, is it a system? Is it a process? Is it both?
Great question. Uh, I view coaching as about change, and I think change is a process that utilizes systems that are customized to the needs of the coachee. And so, so yeah, I think it's both.
Wow. That's interesting. No , I'm , I'm glad you , you kind of a , you gave me the politically correct answer there. So , , tongue in cheek , of course. But , um, so , so what are some of the, when do you , when do you think about it?
'cause I'm sure I , I , I , you may, you may, you may know the number, Richard, maybe you don't know the number anymore of how many people you've coached over your career, but I'm sure it's massive. Uh , so , um, so Richard, you, you've probably had, you probably can't remember how many people you've coached over your corporate or your, your coaching life and career .
But what would you say are, when you think about typically, and , and , and again, I say typically maybe there's no standard response here, but what are, I'll put you on the spot to say, what are two or three successful outcomes of a good coaching relationship where you're perhaps at the end of that relationship with that individual or that engagement.
What, what makes you proud to say, this is something I was able to help that person work through and help to make them more successful? What does that look, what are those two to three things look like for you?
Wow. That's a awesome question. Um, when you said that helps me feel proud about what happened, I think that's a great way of putting it because I'm not the cause of the outcome. Right. Uh, but , uh, that the individual is not only had a work benefit, but a personal benefit. Many of the times , uh, spousal relationships are brought up in a conversation.
So, so that is probably one of the biggest things is that, you know, their life is just better in general. Um, I need to think on the second one be because, you know, really ultimately that's, that I've made an impact by asking good questions. And , uh, I guess sometimes it , it's , uh, a little humbling when someone says, you know, I was listening to Richard in my head, . Right. My, or my inner Richard.
And, and as kind as that is, it's a little bit humbling for me.
Right. It's interesting. I sometimes when with that response, I kind of envision, you know, of course we, we all have the, it's, it's kind of like the angel on one shoulder and then the devil on the other shoulder sometimes. And I know I've had that conversation too sometimes where I'm just thinking about which, which shoulder was responding to that question.
And sometimes unfortunately, I have to be, I have to be totally open. Sometimes it's not the right , uh, is is not the response that was perhaps ideal in the situation. . So ,
,
Um, now for the last couple of minutes we're gonna be talking about here. So we wanted to kind of switch gears a little bit. Mm-Hmm . , and this is a conversation around emotional intelligence. So I know that's a fascinating area and you've got a lot of expertise in that. So , uh, can you tell me why it is very important for leaders? I'm gonna pose the question this way.
Why is it important for leaders to have a high level of emotional intelligence? Or if you know, what , if you're in the field or your , your , depending on your background, then thinking about eq Mm-Hmm . . So we'll kind of use EQ moving forward. So why is it so important for , um, for leaders , um, to have a high level of eq to be able to be effective?
Uh , I love the question because , uh, as, as leaders move up into an organization, their responsibilities start changing. They start moving out of the tactical and more into the strategic. And as they move up higher, they're tasked more with doing things through people. And as, and every decision they make impacts people.
So for them to be more successful, one, they need to know , uh, a little bit more about themselves and how they're reacting and how their emotions are impacting them. But they also need to know about how that happens with each person. They're interacting. So as they continue to, to move up and lead through others , um, it's actually, EQ is more important in success, measured success, 25 to 45% than iq. Hmm .
So IQ is , uh, is a bit lower, but IQ ends at age 17 roughly about where we can actually grow our iq, but EQ can continue to grow through age 70.
Wow . That , that is fa and i , I did not know that statistic. So I , I love doing this because a lot of times I, the people I, i I interview , um, I, I learned so many things. That's the , so that's what makes this exciting for me too. So how many, when you think about it too, and again, you've got a wealth of experience here, Richard.
How many leaders when you, when you work with them and coach them on the concept of eq, how many leaders there, you know, seriously need significant amount of help and understanding, why is that important for them to have a high level of EQ to be successful?
Again, an awesome question. I think it depends on part of their personality. Introverts sometimes struggle with relating to other people. And so they tend to, they get energized, obviously, by not being around lots of people. Um, but generally even extroverts can need it. I've got one guy I'm working with for eight over eight years, and he's about to move into the CEO role. Hmm .
And , uh, EQ is what we've been working on , uh, since we started. And he's gonna continue to do it because we work on the nuances. And it's been fun watching those changes occur.
Okay. Interesting. So, if you, and probably should have asked this before, but, so when you think about the cons , the components of eq, what are some of the core foundational components , uh, of EQ from your perspective?
Sure. Um, and actually this gets back to the assessment that I use. It's based off a model by Reen Baron who developed it back , uh, the concepts back in early eighties. And really the way it's defined is the set of emotional and social skills that establish how we perceive and express ourselves. That's about the inside, develop and maintain , uh, social relationships with individuals.
And then how do we cope with challenges. And we do that in a way that , uh, using that emotional information in effective and meaningful ways. So , so that's defining it , I guess is sort of what you're asking.
Sure. No, that's great. That's perfect.
So, so if there are business leaders, business owners , um, key people listening to the podcast today in the audience, if they're not really, if they, they haven't had a coach, an executive coach or executive haven't been in a relationship like that, or think that they may, they've heard feedback around, you know, you really need to understand the emotional side of being an effective leader.
What are, what are a couple of three, maybe three things you can bring up today for those individuals to say, you know, this is now the time. You shouldn't be delaying this. You should actually be starting to take action. And what would be three reasons you would say that this is the time to actually do something about it versus just listening to, to hear this as a good thing to
Do ? Sure. To do . Um, one is, do you wanna make better decisions? Because increased self-awareness and awareness of others allows me to make better decisions. I've got more information to do that. Do you want better outcomes for yourself as well as your company? That's because you make better decisions. And do you want a , a more fulfilled life, both personally and professionally?
Because when you have better outcomes, that inclu that increases the quality of life that you get to have.
Wow. That's a, that's compelling right there. So, because at the end of the day , uh, you know, I think even what you're, what you spoke about too, this, the beauty of what I think, you know, you're , you're sharing today, Richard, is that, that this is not only, this is not only , uh, applicable in a work environment, this is personal, this is applicable in life itself.
And all, you think about all the hundreds of, you know, the tens or hundreds of relationships you have outside of work. Mm-Hmm . that, you know, it's critical. And I think you're, you're sharing some , um, some, you've shared some great , uh, great things to think about and also some great techniques there. So thank you for that.
Any last, as we're getting ready to wrap up, Richard, any last thoughts you, any last, you know, silver bullets or golden bullets or nuggets you wanna share with the, with the audience before we, we kind move into a couple, a couple more things about yourself?
Sure. Uh, I guess the, the last thing is nothing ventured, nothing gained . And so leaning into the discomfort, 10% will give you, give you advances that you didn't know you could have.
Oh , that's great. Thank you for that. So a a couple more things. Just, you know, the , this'll be a a it'll be an interesting exercise. I enjoy this too. But, so three, three books. So I am sure you have hundreds in your cadre and on your bookshelf, but three books you would really highly recommend that our audience checks out. What are the , what are those three books?
I'm gonna actually cheat on this one. Okay. So the first book is Leadership and Self-Deception by the Arbinger Institute. Uh, it's a book that every coachee that I work with is, has required reading , uh, anatomy of Peace, and the Outward Mindset are second and third books in that series that really reinforce it . So those, that's the cheat. Mm-Hmm.
, um, your Brilliant Work by David Rock talks about brain threats, which we talked about a little bit earlier. Right . And then , uh, a book that the Commander of the third First fighter wing , medical squadron, who I work with , uh, at the base there , um, in , introduced me to is the, the Dao of Leadership by John Hyder . Hmm . And , uh, it , it's a great book talking about really an outward mindset. Hmm .
That is great. Well, thank you for that. And I, I did not mind the cheat at all, so, okay. That was, that's totally appropriate there. So how about podcasts? I'm not sure if you're a person who listens to podcasts. I know sometimes you drive around a , a fair amount, but I don't know if you have two favorite podcasts that you , uh, you know, that you enjoy listening to?
I have one for sure. And that's Work Life by Adam Grant, because it's a , he's, I'm fascinated by his desire to learn and to change to be better. So he's willing to be wrong and publicly, so I love that. And then anything that has Brene Brown in it, because her philosophy aligns with mine in terms of being vulnerable ,
Uh , . That's great. No, she has a lot of good stuff out there too, for sure. So how about , last question is , um, so what advice would you give your 16-year-old self?
Yeah , I love this question because, you know, I don't like to give advice . And so what I'd probably do is share , uh, with myself that as I got older and , uh, accepted Christ in my forties, that everything that I'd gone through, the ups and the downs will arm me with examples that I can share that will positively impact others in ways I won't understand at my age of 16.
Hmm . Interesting. I love that too. And I didn't know that you came to faith later in life, so , um, that's always, again, I love listening , uh, hearing things about from , uh, from the people I'm, I'm interviewing just because I learned so many great things, and this is a great conversation.
So, with that, Richard, if somebody wanted to reach out to you and find out more about what you do and find out, just had some more fascinating questions to ask you, or , um, how would they, how would they , what are the mechanisms to find you online or however else
Online? I've got a website. It's static, it's lead executive consulting.com. Okay . There's a contact form on there. My , uh, email address and phone number are on it as well. Um, would you like me to share either of those here?
Yeah, if you could, that'd be great.
Sure. Uh, [email protected]. Uh, people have a tendency to to transpose the l and t in consulting, so just be aware that it may not get to me. Uh, phone number (214) 641-6286.
Great. Thank you so much. So Richard, again, this has been a my pleasure to , to actually have this conversation with you. And I've just, I , I've learned some new things. As I say , um, I learned some things in the last 30 to 40 minutes we've had a chat with, and I'll look forward to having further conversations in the future.
So with that , um, I'll let you go and I'll look forward to our next episode, which we'll have coming out next month. Thanks so much. Bye-Bye.
Thank you, mark .