Nolan and Kelli talk about Jamie Dimon's leaked critique of remote work while examining the collision between post-pandemic workplace expectations and corporate realities. They explore leadership's critical role in employee engagement, the shifting talent marketplace, and how organizational culture ultimately determines whether flexibility becomes an asset or liability in modern workplaces. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] For coaching and advisi...
Mar 04, 2025•13 min
In this installment of AI Corner, Siadhal Magos, the CEO of Metaview, and Nolan Church discuss 'agentic AI' in a practical and relevant way for HR pros. They dig into what agentic AI is today vs future expectations and debate current tool limitations. They also share their current AI tool stack, workflows, and their overall approach to viewing AI like a 'junior colleague'. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] For coaching and advising inquire at http...
Feb 28, 2025•26 min
Kelli and Nolan talk about candidate feedback during hiring processes and debate whether companies should provide feedback to rejected candidates, especially those who've invested significant time in interviews and assignments. They discuss recruiter bandwidth challenges and liability concerns while advocating for human-centered feedback approaches, especially for onsite candidates, plus advice on requesting feedback gracefully. *Email us your ‘Dear Heretics’ questions: [email protected] ...
Feb 25, 2025•19 min
Iain Roberts, Global Head of Employee Experience at Airbnb, discusses experimenting in HR in 2025, the design-thinking reshaping organizational structures, and why CEO Brian Chesky’s ‘Founder Mode’ is much misinterpreted. Iain covers innovative approach to flexible work, cross-functional alignment, and treating employee programs as evolving products requiring continuous refinement. *Email us your ‘Dear Heretics’ questions: [email protected] **For coaching and advising inquire at https://k...
Feb 20, 2025•40 min
Anna Binder, Head of People at Asana, shares her journey as an HR leader, her approach to board membership at CultureAmp, and her philosophy on talent management. The discussion covers the nitty gritty of preparing and contributing in board meetings, long-term DEI initiatives, and the importance of authentic leadership in HR, particularly highlighting the value of playing the long game in organizational development. *Email us your ‘Dear Heretics’ questions: [email protected] **For coachin...
Feb 18, 2025•45 min
Nolan and Kelli talk about retaining top-performing employees (the crucial 1%) and emphasize that compensation alone isn't sufficient; leaders must combine verbal recognition, proactive compensation strategies, transparency, and genuine appreciation. They stress the importance of eliminating compensation anxiety for these key employees and building long-term relationships, and argue that thoughtful, personalized treatment of top talent ultimately benefits both the individual and organization. Em...
Feb 14, 2025•15 min
Nolan and Kelli talk about AI's role in hiring processes, sparked by Anthropic's policy against using AI in job applications. They explore the tension between AI as a valuable tool and its potential for interview deception, ultimately advocating for a more integrated approach where candidates openly demonstrate their AI usage skills rather than attempting to restrict or hide it. Email us your ‘Dear Heretics’ questions: [email protected] **For coaching and advising inquire at https://kelli...
Feb 12, 2025•15 min
Entrepreneur Jesse Tinsley - founder of Employer.com and other successful tech ventures - discusses his consortium's bid to acquire TikTok alongside MrBeast. The dialogue with Kelli and Nolan examines the philosophical and practical implications of executive compensation reduction during corporate restructuring, while illustrating how digital discourse can evolve into substantive debate when moved from social media to direct dialogue. *Email us your ‘Dear Heretics’ questions: hrheretics@turpenti...
Feb 07, 2025•24 min
Adam Ward (founding partner, Growth by Design) discusses the current landscape of executive hiring in people/talent roles, particularly the prevalence of "pocket listings" - positions filled through private networks rather than public postings. He offers insights into what CEOs value in people leaders (business-driven mindset, operational excellence), how candidates can effectively navigate professional networks, and the importance of structured hiring processes. *Email us your questions or topi...
Feb 04, 2025•46 min
Kelli and Nolan examine the art of building authentic company values. Through real-world experiences, they reveal the methodical process of transforming abstract principles into tangible organizational behavior that drives meaningful cultural change. *Email us your ‘Dear Heretics’ questions: [email protected] **For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . —Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interview...
Jan 30, 2025•15 min
Kelli and Nolan tackle a listener's frustration with a painfully slow reorg process, diving into the eternal tension between perfect planning and actually running the business. When HR and legal reviews stretch into week four, should you keep waiting for perfection or pull the trigger? Towards the end of the episode, Kelli and Nolan get into brass tacks offering tactical timelines to execute a reorg based on hypothetical examples. *Email us your ‘Dear Heretics’ questions: [email protected]...
Jan 28, 2025•16 min
Tom Clayton, COO of Peek, shares his unconventional playbook for building world-class teams. From his data-driven "employee attribute chart" to his rule of "don't be a brand b***h," Tom breaks down how he's scaled companies from 50 to 2000+ employees. He dishes on everything from why he sends champagne to candidates' hotel rooms to why he encourages employees to quit and start their own companies. If you’re listening on podcast platforms, be sure to check out our Substack or YouTube channel to s...
Jan 23, 2025•43 min
Kelli and Nolan unpack the delicate art of layering – that awkward moment when someone gets a new boss – while calling out the pitfalls of secret searches and celebrating the often-forgotten heroes of early startup days. Equal parts tactical advice and therapy session for growing companies. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified e...
Jan 21, 2025•22 min
Think AI is just about robots summarizing your emails? Think again. Metaview co-founder and CEO Siadhal Magos reveals how AI's real impact in an org is making sense of workplace conversations, performance reviews, and all the messy human stuff that HR deals with. Start recognizing the opportunities presented by ‘unstructured data’ to transform HR from subjective guesswork to data-driven decisions, without losing the human touch. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretic...
Jan 17, 2025•20 min
Nolan and Kelli talk about the culture shock of moving from corporate behemoths to the startup wild west. They share battle-tested wisdom on surviving the transition - from mastering the art of founder relationships to embracing the (sometimes brutal) transparency demands of startup employees. Along the way, they reveal how corporate luxuries like two-hour gym breaks get replaced by the exhilarating but exhausting reality of building something from scratch. *Email us your questions or topics for...
Jan 15, 2025•16 min
Kelli and Nolan start with a heartfelt discussion about LA fires before diving into the art of handling CEO mandates for attrition targets. They reveal insider strategies for transforming harsh directives into meaningful performance frameworks, while warning against becoming the dreaded "person of no." *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 B...
Jan 10, 2025•18 min
Colin Zima, former Looker exec turned Omni CEO, reveals how he runs a 65-person Series A startup with no HR or G&A team. Learn why he believes in minimal bureaucracy, why founders should do the "dirty work," and what really breaks after a Google acquisition. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops ...
Jan 09, 2025•43 min
From Square to Nextdoor, Bryan Power reveals why copying Big Tech's playbook might be your biggest mistake. Find out why Square banned hiring from the payments industry while building a payments company. Discover how conventional wisdom about senior talent can become startup kryptonite and why the safe choice isn't always the smart choice. Bryan Power is a veteran Silicon Valley People executive who's shaped talent strategy at tech giants like Google and Yahoo, built Square from 150 employees, a...
Jan 02, 2025•48 min
Happy New Year from HR Heretics! Together, we've built something extraordinary: a community of forward-thinking HR professionals who dare to question the status quo, welcome straight talk, and thrive on healthy debate. In today's special year-end episode, we're sharing some of our top moments, most controversial takes, and the conversations that simply blew our minds with new approaches to people, hiring, managing, and shaping the culture of high performing teams. Think of this as your ultimate ...
Dec 31, 2024•17 min
It’s been quite a year! Kelli and Nolan bare it all in their 2024 wrap-up. Get their must-read books, binge-worthy podcasts, and raw personal journeys - including Kelly's identity crisis and Nolan's toughest year yet. Plus, hear why 2025 might be the year to go 'risk on' and why your company's headcount could be holding you back. No fluff, just real talk from two HR leaders who've been there. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] For coaching and advi...
Dec 20, 2024•29 min
Are digital workers coming for your job? In this episode, Metaview CEO Siadhal Magos— our resident AI expert— breaks down the rise of AI-powered SDRs and what it means for the future of work. From 11x.ai's $75M raise to replace human sales reps, to broader implications for recruiting and tech roles, discover why VCs are betting big on AI labor. This is a candid discussion about job displacement, productivity gains, and why getting your hands dirty with AI might be your best career move. Discover...
Dec 18, 2024•29 min
Ever wondered why your HR team feels like a bunch of separate countries? Tune in as Kelli and Nolan reveal why mixing your People Ops like finger paint might be the secret sauce to scaling – and why that messy feeling means you're actually crushing it. Discover how top HR leaders transformed from "the team in the corner" to invaluable business partners – and how you can, too. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] For coaching and advising inquire at h...
Dec 13, 2024•14 min
Chris Yeh – author, venture partner, and co-writer of Blitzscaling (with Reid Hoffman) – shares insights from his multifaceted career as a Silicon Valley insider. Yeh discusses staying relevant in tech, the necessary skill of unlearning, and why traveling with potential partners might be the best way to assess compatibility. Yeh gives our listeners a masterclass in adaptability and authentic leadership. Discover how top HR leaders transformed from "the team in the corner" to invaluable business ...
Dec 12, 2024•54 min
Tired of hearing "HR needs to be more business-focused" without any real direction? In this episode, Kelli and Nolan cut through the noise with actionable insights from veteran CPO Jeff Diana. Learn why joining sales calls, understanding your P&L, and getting your hands dirty in customer support might be your secret weapons. Discover how top HR leaders transformed from "the team in the corner" to invaluable business partners – and how you can, too. *Email us your questions or topics for Kell...
Dec 06, 2024•24 min
Ever wonder what happens when HR leaders get real about C-suite scrutiny? Join Kelli, Nolan and friend of the podcast, Colleen McCreary, as they spill the tea on transforming those dreaded "show me the numbers" moments into power moves. Turns out, the secret sauce isn't hiding from spreadsheets—it's owning them with style. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast fr...
Dec 03, 2024•13 min
From pioneering parental leave strategies to 3 AM workout sessions, Warner Bros Discovery's SVP of People Donald Knight reveals how vulnerability, authenticity, and physical discipline shape exceptional leadership. Donald joins Kelli and Nolan in a candid conversation about evolving HR, squandered DEI opportunities, and building lasting relationships in hyper-growth environments. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] For coaching and advising inquire ...
Nov 26, 2024•50 min
Didier Elzinga, Culture Amp's CEO, drops bombshell insights about why most leaders get growth wrong, reveals shocking data about manager vs. leader impact, and explains why treating feedback like an all-you-can-eat menu is destroying companies. Didier sits down with Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church for a conversation about company culture, data, and mapping the world of work on two axes—trust versus mission. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] For c...
Nov 21, 2024•48 min
How do you navigate a founding CTO's transition when they're struggling to scale? Kelli and Nolan share hard-won wisdom on avoiding common pitfalls: don't rush to judgment, build trust first, and respect the deep bonds between founders. Instead of plotting replacements, focus on supporting growth - and remember that even the best transitions happen through relationships, not force. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] For coaching and advising inquir...
Nov 19, 2024•17 min
Melanie Naranjo, Chief People Officer at Ethena, joins Kelli and Nolan to tackle the surge in employee litigation facing modern companies. In an era where employees are increasingly using legal terms like 'discrimination' and 'retaliation,' how can companies balance protecting themselves from frivolous lawsuits while ensuring legitimate grievances are properly addressed? Explore how social media, changing workplace expectations, and generational shifts are fueling this trend, while offering prac...
Nov 14, 2024•29 min
Today Kelli and Nolan tackle a real-world HR career challenge: a candidate who received feedback that while they could handle their current role, the hiring manager was unsure about their ability to scale with company growth. Drawing from their extensive backgrounds in recruiting and HR leadership, they help listeners navigate everything from interview feedback to career growth, offering insider perspectives that challenge traditional HR thinking and empower professionals to take control of thei...
Nov 12, 2024•14 min