“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies - podcast cover

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies

After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact?     Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors. This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector. Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader.

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Episodes

From Department of No to Strategic Partner: Pendo’s CPO on Modern HR

How do you lead product when your CEO is the product visionary? Pendo's Chief Product Officer Trisha Price reveals the delicate dance of setting boundaries with founder-CEOs, the evolution of HR from gatekeeper to strategic partner, and why she uses AI to write letters to her 102-year-old grandmother. A candid conversation about power, trust, and the changing face of tech leadership. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] For coaching and advising inqu...

Nov 07, 202444 min

Election Day 2024: Leading Through the Divide

On Election Day 2024, Nolan and Kelli examine how to navigate an increasingly polarized workplace during a contentious election. They discuss the decline of 'presidential' discourse, the impact of social media on political rhetoric, and practical strategies for business leaders managing divided teams. Their candid conversation offers insights on maintaining professionalism and unity when half the country faces inevitable disappointment. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: h...

Nov 05, 202418 min

Beyond Emily in Paris: Navigating French Business Culture and HR Politics with Ciara Lakhani

Former Dashlane HR leader Ciara Lakhani shares her unfiltered journey from New York to Paris tech, debunking myths about French business culture while revealing the art of cross-cultural leadership. From smoke breaks with works councils to earning trust through authenticity, Ciara offers practical wisdom on navigating international business dynamics and building bridges between American and French work cultures. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] F...

Oct 31, 202434 min

From Empty Suits to Real Leaders

In this segment of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan discuss "empty suit executives" – a term coined by product leader Tyler Hogge, highlighting executives who manage from above but scoff at doing the work themselves. Is the era of the status-seeking executive dead? Explore how AI, increased competition, and evolving workplace culture are killing the 'empty suit' leader. From Silicon Valley's trenches to corporate boardrooms, discover why authenticity is replacing authority, and why rolling up your s...

Oct 29, 202415 min

When Breaking Everything Fixes Everything with Jared Fliesler

In this episode, Nolan and Kelli talks with Silicon Valley prodigy turned seasoned operator and former Google director Jared Fliesler. From revolutionizing feedback systems to challenging the "founder mode" hype, Jared shares raw insights from his journey as Silicon Valley's youngest executive. But that's just the beginning – he also unveils the psychological trap keeping high achievers perpetually unfulfilled (hint: it's not what you think), and shares the counterintuitive secret to genuine sat...

Oct 24, 202450 min

Burnout in the Workplace

In this candid episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan dive deep into workplace burnout and share vulnerable insights on maintaining resilience in high-pressure roles. From conquering impostor syndrome to escaping the corporate echo chamber, they offer practical strategies—like daily routines, nature walks, and building authentic relationships—while reminding leaders that it's okay not to have all the answers. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] HR ...

Oct 22, 202420 min

Silicon Valley's Survival of the Fittest with Peter Walker of Carta

Peter Walker, Head of Insights at Carta, joins Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich for a round 2 discussion to talk about the hidden currents reshaping the startup world. From the brutal reality of today's hiring landscape to the unexpected reasons top companies avoid IPOs, Walker challenges conventional wisdom, exploring how the "Big Stay" phenomenon and emerging equity models are redefining employee-company relationships. With startling data on fund performance and company shutdowns, this convers...

Oct 17, 202445 min

Trust No One? The New Realities of Tech Recruiting in 2024

In a world where AI blurs the line between genuine skill and digital deception, HR professionals face an ethical minefield. As candidates leverage AI to cheat interviews and fake applicants infiltrate tech companies, the very fabric of recruitment is being tested. Kelli and Nolan explore the unsettling convergence of technology and human ambition, challenging us to redefine trust, authenticity, and competence in the modern workplace. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrhe...

Oct 16, 202417 min

Andy Price on Building World-Class Teams: Process is Overrated

Seasoned executive recruiter and venture capitalist Andy Price joins Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich for an inside-the-room look at the intricate dance of hiring, retaining, and evolving top-tier talent. Andy has assembled leadership teams for companies like Snowflake, DocuSign, Confluent, Amplitude, and ServiceNow. From the critical role of empathy in leadership transitions to the long-term value of investing in talent development, Price's insights challenge listeners preconcieved notions abou...

Oct 10, 202453 min

Rethinking DEI in Tech After Microsoft's Team Dissolution

As tech giants like Microsoft dismantle DEI teams, this segment probes the industry's true commitment to diversity. Are we witnessing the death of corporate DEI or its evolution? Kelli and Nolan dissect the disconnect between lofty promises and marginal progress, questioning whether current approaches are effective, and challenge listeners to envision a "Chapter Two" for DEI—one that prioritizes authentic inclusion over mere metrics. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrhe...

Oct 09, 202417 min

HashiCorp's CPO Christine Centa on Equity, Remote Work & AI

In this episode of HR Heretics, dive into the world of HashiCorp's HR innovation with Christine Centa, as she unveils the challenges of scaling a remote-first culture, navigating post-IPO transitions, and embracing AI in recruiting. Discover with Kelli, Nolan and Christine how transparency, data-driven decisions, and a willingness to swear occasionally are reshaping modern tech workplaces. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] HR Heretics is a podcast...

Oct 03, 202444 min

When CEOs Bare Their Souls in 36 Pages with Colleen McCreary

This HR Heretics segment dives headfirst into the controversy surrounding Mr. Beast's leaked 36-page employee manual. Join Kelli, Nolan and friend of the podcast, Colleen McCreary, as as they unpack this viral document that's part survival guide, part corporate manifesto, with a dash of unapologetic ambition. Is it a brilliantly authentic approach to leadership or a recipe for workplace burnout? *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] HR Heretics is a p...

Oct 01, 202422 min

Realtalk: Feedback

This episode of HR Heretics dives into the treacherous waters of giving feedback to friends without capsizing relationships. Candid feedback or comfortable silence? Kelli and Nolan dissect the art of critiquing colleagues, challenging listeners to reconsider their approach to workplace honesty. Discover why your ego might be your own worst enemy, and learn how to transform awkward conversations into opportunities for growth. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@tu...

Sep 26, 202418 min

Amazon's Return To Office Policy

Amazon CEO Andy Jassy announces return to office policy, sparking debate on workplace culture and employee expectations in tech industry. Will Amazon's RTO policy lead to increased employee turnover and a decline in morale? Listen as Kelli and Nolan explore the implications of these changes on workplace culture, employee expectations, and the broader business landscape. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. --...

Sep 24, 202416 min

Workplace Romance Power Dynamics

Thinking of swiping right on a colleague? Find out with Kelli and Nolan if workplace romance is worth the potential awkward elevator rides and why mixing power and passion is a recipe for corporate disaster. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. -- Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop acc...

Sep 19, 202422 min

The First Team Trap: Avoiding Toxicity

You've got your daily team, the folks you work with every day, but then there's the executive squad. Patrick Lencioni’s "Five Dysfunctions of a Team" says that should be your true loyalty, but how does that translate into practice? Nolan and Kelli talk about navigating those tricky waters and avoiding toxic team vibes when the big boss throws down some tough choices. Explore how HR pros can keep things from blowing up when the executive team calls the shots. *Email us your questions or topics fo...

Sep 17, 202419 min

Exec, Manager, Friend: CPO Trifecta

Is context switching hurting your HR productivity? Kelli and Nolan talk about how leaders effectively navigate multiple roles and explore practical techniques for maximizing productivity in HR to build an adaptable team. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to ...

Sep 12, 202418 min

Promotions on Ice: Are you stuck?

US white-collar promotions are down 24% in Q1 2024, with a near 50% drop since 2022. What does this mean for employees and the job market? Kelli and Nolan discuss causes, including pandemic effects and company restructuring, and talk about strategies for retention and career growth in a restructured, doer-focused workplaces. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers ...

Sep 10, 202417 min

Equity: Cash or Carrot? With Guissu Baier of General Catalyst

Guissu Baier , a talent expert at General Catalyst who navigated the treacherous waters of startup equity compensation at Instacart, joins Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich challenging conventional wisdom about refresh grants, and revealing that most companies lack a clear strategy. Is it time to ditch the old-school "wait and see" approach and embrace a more performance-driven model? Listen to Guissu, Kelli and Nolan as they offer insights into how to bridge the gap and foster collaboration betw...

Sep 06, 202448 min

Everyone's Talking About Founder Mode

Today Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich talk about ‘Founder Mode’ a concept coined by YC founder Paul Graham in a recent essay — based on a talk by Brian Chesky, founder of Airbnb. They discuss how founders feel gaslit by advice to delegate without micromanaging, and that the right approach IS a ruthlessly hands-on approach. The hosts explore the tension founders face between maintaining control and trusting hires, emphasizing the need for empathy. This is a sign that the paradigm is shifting, an...

Sep 05, 202422 min

DEI: Pushback or Paradigm Shift? With Vijay Pendakur

Dr. Vijay Pendakur, DEI expert, author, and principal and founder of Vijay Pendakur Consulting , joins Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich to discuss the current pushback against DEI, the future of the movement, and how companies can find success in a shifting landscape. How can companies foster inclusion while avoiding divisiveness and proving business value? Vijay, Kelli and Nolan candidly discuss the future of corporate diversity initiatives amid pushback and the search for measurable ROI, and e...

Aug 29, 202459 min

When Is It Time to Quit Your Job?

Today Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich tackle knowing when it's time to leave a job -- considering factors such as energy levels, learning opportunities, and impact. They cover the art of giving notice, protecting your financial interests, and nurturing professional connections when moving to a new opportunity. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just lik...

Aug 27, 202423 min

Reinventing HR at Garner with Valentina Gissin

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church sits down with Valentina Gissin , former Head of Talent at Bridgewater and current Chief People Officer at Garner. Valentina shares the lasting lessons and people practices from working under Ray Dalio at Bridgewater, Garner's unique approach to the interview process, and her approach to hybrid work, manager training, L&D, and performance reviews. Valentina offers an absolute masterclass in innovating hiring and people strategies. *Email us your q...

Aug 22, 202447 min

How Back Channels Really Shape Hiring Decisions

In this HR Heretics segment, Nolan and Kelli talk about "back channels" in the hiring process. They dive deep into this controversial practice and how back channels can impact candidate selection, emphasizing the need for a thoughtful, mature approach that considers the full context of a candidate's experience and potential. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers ...

Aug 20, 202423 min

The Long Game of DEI: A Conversation with Joelle Emerson

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli are joined by Joelle Emerson, CEO of Paradigm, to discuss why diversity numbers aren't improving quickly in companies and the challenges in measuring DEI progress. This episode explores the complexities of measuring impact, discusses the trade-offs of long-term strategies, and offers insights for navigating the current backlash. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpenti...

Aug 15, 202451 min

The Vibe Shift in Tech

In this HR Heretics segment, Nolan and Kelli discuss the dramatic shift in the tech industry's work culture. They explore how the once-glamorous perception of tech jobs, filled with lavish perks and easy success, has given way to a more challenging reality. While this transition is painful, it may ultimately lead to a healthier, more sustainable tech ecosystem with professionals who are truly committed to building the future. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@t...

Aug 13, 202416 min

So the NYTimes says everyone hates HR, now what?

Today Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich discuss The New York Times article making waves this past week: "So Human Resources Making You Miserable". Nolan and Kelli dissect the article's claims, share their own experiences and what they're hearing from other leaders, and discuss the disconnect between HR and the rest of the org. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Metaview is the ...

Aug 08, 202438 min

Should Your Org do Amazon’s Bar Raiser Interviews?

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich weigh in on a listener's question (shoutout Karissa!) about implementing 'bar raiser' interview programs at her Series D company. Are they worth the hype, or just an HR trend? Kelli and Nolan dig in. You too can email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely r...

Aug 06, 202421 min

AI-Powered Hiring, Really... with Siadhal Magos of Metaview

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich sit down with Metaview CEO Siadhal Magos for his insight into how AI is transforming recruiting -- and creating unexpected leverage for teams that know how to use it. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine . Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven i...

Aug 01, 202445 min

How to Show Your Work

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich discuss how HR teams can break out from behind the curtain and be a proactive force for good within the organization. HR can be more than just a reactive function. Learn how HR teams can demonstrate their real impact on the business as Kelli and Nolan share tips for increasing visibility and showcasing your team's value. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] HR Heretics is a podcast from...

Jul 30, 202417 min
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