S2 Ep 69: Decoding Your Dreams & Nightmares with Melissa Kim Corter

Way beyond the obvious themes , we dive into the power of timing . Yep , think of astrology . What is happening in the planets when that dream is happening for you ? We also talk about the significance of symbols identifying unfinished business and why those vivid dreams leave us with the lingering emotions the next day .

Melissa shares her transformative four-step process to help you finally decode those dreams that won't leave you alone . And as a bonus , of course , melissa takes us through an intimate dream decoding session with me as her subject . It's raw , emotional and deeply insightful . Spoiler alert we both cry .

It's a beautiful journey into the subconscious mind and by the end you will be itching to decode your own dreams . If you are new here , you're listening to the how we Get Through podcast , a place for you to feel connected through deep and meaningful conversations with healers from all over the world .

I'm your host , jen , a licensed therapist and founder and CEO of the how we Get Through app and my mission is to bring you affordable and diverse therapy resources to help you get through the hard stuff , all in one place and at your own pace . Welcome to the how we Get Through community . Hello , welcome back to the how we Get Through podcast .

We have Melissa Kim Corder again on the podcast . Melissa , thanks for being here .

Right now it's October , but thinking about you know , and there's a lot of like scary stuff around us and so how can we kind of feel empowered by these like subconscious things that are happening to us when we're sleeping and we're not asking for them ? Yes , absolutely yes . And so , Melissa , just fill us in real quick on your background .

If anybody didn't listen to the shadow episode , please go listen to that . You don't have to listen to that one before this one . But , Melissa , tell us a little bit about you .

So my name is Melissa Kim Corder , I'm a depth psychologist , I'm a bestselling author and I love to teach , speak and write about all things dark side of the personality , and so sometimes that's looking through the lens of fairy tales , film forensics , but helping people find value in this hidden part of us that we all have .

It's like , well , a dream can have a heightened sense of emotion or intensity . A dream might have a certain narrative that's playing out . A dream might have intense images , symbols , things that are arising as we're in this altered state , but then nightmares same kind of a thing . It's like intense imagery , a scene , a narrative .

So really it's kind of like , well , what makes the difference between the two ?

And just based on client feedback and my own perception around that , I would say it's how we view it and I like to look for the unfinished business , because I feel like that's one of the big discerning points is , if there's a nightmare , there's usually some kind of unfinished business within us where a dream has that too , but it's usually less emotion or less

intensity . But fear often is one of the things I hear . That is that discerning point for people Anxiety , fear , dread , these senses that overwhelm the nervous system and the mind . That usually is one of the things that is kind of like okay , I feel like I had a nightmare , not just a typical dream .

So the before not so much , but the during , the dream state and then right after can tell us a lot about the quality of what's happening in the psyche .

And then we hit a certain age and it's kind of like , oh , you can't do that anymore because that's childish , that's immature . So the imagination , the dream state , is really reliant on us paying attention to symbols , and these symbols are important because the way they emerge through the dream state is to tell us something .

So what I like to say is it's important to listen to our dreams , to our nightmares , because it's a form of communication , and it's a form of communication from the depths of your psyche .

So again , for those of you that didn't hear the first episode , we talked a little bit about the shadow and these different parts of the mind , and so the psyche is the Greek word for soul , and essentially it is the all knowing part of us , so part of us that's very wise and connected , and yet there's all these other pieces to within the psyche that work

together . But what happens is when we're awake , we are in a higher brainwave states , not higher as in better , but just more active . Whereas when we're sleeping we are in a higher brainwave state , not higher as in better , but just more active , whereas when we're sleeping we're in a lower brainwave state .

And because the psyche is communicating to us , to the conscious part of us , the mind , it's going to do that in a language that isn't necessarily straightforward , which is symbolic , which is metaphorical , and so that's why our dreams are often a little strange , maybe obscure or hazy . Sometimes we feel like we get snippets of things .

It's rare that a dream plays out with a narrative from start to finish that makes perfect sense or seems like it's communicating in a way where we instantly get it . We can do that , but often we're doing that with other senses feeling , intuition .

So the psyche doesn't necessarily communicate the way we do with language , where we're trying to get a point across and say this is what we're trying to say and that we deliver that message . The psyche is like feeling . Here's this here's this color . Here's this texture , here's this random person you haven't thought about in 40 years in your dream .

And it's going to do this in order to get us to pay attention with the conscious mind while we're awake , to put these pieces together .

The reason we dream in the first place , it isn't just to process emotion or energy , although that does happen too but it is to help us understand what it is we're not paying attention to or what we're not quite aware of while we're awake .

So this nighttime world of symbol and dreams and metaphor , it's really working on our behalf as an ally to say hey , there's just more to you , and if you're feeling stuck or if you're feeling uncertain , here's what you can do , here's a little something that might help you .

So I think of it that way whether it's a dream or a nightmare , it's always working on our behalf to communicate some type of information to us .

I believe that to be true on some level , but not necessarily through research or anything , but more from my own experience of dreams and keeping a journal of dreams for a long time , working with clients who have dream journals . There is something to be said about those dreams that are closest to us right before we wake up .

But at the same time , what I think is also a possibility is maybe we are dreaming other essential dreams , yet it's really difficult if it's like one o'clock in the morning or , you know , if we're sleeping , wake up at midnight or something , we really are so quick to go right back to sleep and not necessarily get up and write it out .

So my sense around that too is we could be losing some of those dreams or some of that , those types of dreams that are coming to us around that .

For that reason that we're just , we're overtired , we're not as rested , we're right in , maybe in the beginning of our dream cycle , sleep cycle , and so I think that plays a bit of a role in the process too , for people .

So I'm someone that I really struggle with our use of dream dictionaries and symbolism , in the sense where we want to go look for a meaning that someone else has kind of determined and says every time a pencil shows up in your dream , it means this . Or every time you lose this one specific tooth on this side of your face , it means this , you know .

or every time you lose this one specific tooth on this side of your face . It means this thing and I'm kind of like , okay , that's interesting , but how do we know we're not just following some lunatics guidance or somebody else who like maybe that's really brilliant but was meant for them ?

So I'm not against it , but I will say it's so important that we listen to our own bodies , that we learn how to analyze our own dreams first , and it's OK to consult with people who can help reflect some possibilities back to you .

But the idea is your psyche is presenting it and so if we go to a dream journal first or a dream dictionary , I should say the Same applies with , like animal totems and things like that .

If we go to these different sources first , that's fun and that's wonderful , and you're getting these filters of someone else's experience where your psyche might have nothing to do with what is already presented , what the research shows on a certain item , a repetitive pattern or theme .

So what I recommend is learn how to do it for yourself first and then fill in some layers If you're really stuck , if you're having a dream where there's a symbol that's repeating or a object that's showing up or a figure , and you just feel kind of blocked .

And then I say you know research , but still engage your entire psyche in the process , which means let yourself be led to the different materials . And then it has more of this synchronistic quality of oh my gosh , I found this random thing and it said this about this , you know aspect that showed up in my dream and I just had chills all through my body .

That's very different when we land on something like that and there's that synchronistic response .

That's how you can kind of gauge and say okay , I'm on to something , there's part of me responding here , but if you're reading a meaning out of a book or something else and it feels kind of flat or it could be really interesting but maybe doesn't resonate or doesn't strike a chord for you , I'd say there's probably something else to investigate .

So when it comes to the interpretation of dreams , I feel like , because your psyche is presenting it , it also happens to be the most richest resource you can have in decoding it or sort of unpacking what the symbolism is .

experience . I even like it when it's a little eerie and kind of unsettling , where you're just like there's a lot of different thoughts and theories on this , and I'd say probably the one that most closely aligns . And again , I'm still a little skeptical . I'm not quite sure . This , and I'd say probably the one that most closely aligns .

And again , I'm still a little skeptical . I'm not quite sure . Yeah the thing I'd say that probably closely aligns the most for me is this idea that we're on the right path . You know , if we're having this , dream , this in a way where it's like there's certain my actually my husband does this all the time .

He will have these dreams that are so oddly specific about details . They're short , they're snippets , and then it plays out exactly the way he thought it was going to happen . And I see that deja vu as an alignment to say guess what , Keep going .

That's usually when I will have that type of deja vu sensation and it'll force me to kind of sit back like , wow , okay , that was really intense and I can't explain how that feeling that washes over you , like it's really gripping . But I'll pause and I'll be with that feeling usually and go .

Okay , I just there's something there that makes me think some other part of me knows and some other part of me maybe is showing me more , because the ego can only see a limited view of everything .

So if we keep in mind that this part of us , the ego , is sort of responsible for what we see , between the hidden parts of us and the world , not even just within ourselves , but even what's around us ourselves , but even what's around us , it's kind of like that flashlight that's determining how much we see within that one singular beam .

The more we do this type of all different types of work , all this kind of stuff we're talking about personal development , dream work , shadow work we turn that laser focus flashlight into a dimmer switch and it starts to kind of shift how much comes into our view .

So deja vu to me sometimes feels like that dimmer switch is just kicking up a few notches to go look , there's so much more here and you're tapped into something greater than you Keep trusting . So I wouldn't have put that together until you asked that , but that's what just came to me . I love that .

which feels so minor . You know , it's like I'm like writing my name on a paper for my kid or something like something so minor . So I love the idea of like taking back , of like what is the emotion around this ? What , what else can be here for you ?

because I think even sometimes it can kind of dysregulate me a little bit , like yeah you know , and and being able to breathe into that and be like , okay , well , what , what is here , you know , instead of me like okay , that was cool .

Or or sometimes with clients , you know , because I'm a therapist and I hold a lot of information in my brain and all of this work that I've been doing this last year , I think , has really opened up a lot of stuff . Yeah , and I think to myself I'm like did I already know this ?

or am I asking you again like there's this weird space in between that I have to really kind of ground myself in of like did I know this information or is this new ? And I think that's that like cool experience to be in and also can be really ungrounding if it feels fearful , just like with shadow work .

Right , if I have the lens of like this is bad , then it becomes like ugh . But I love that reframe of whoa . What else is here for me as this is happening ? Ah ?

One of the things we work with in shadow work is this idea that it isn't just holding all the tough stuff , the ugly stuff that you know , the parts of us we hate and we loathe , and of course some of that is there , but also it's things that haven't been integrated fully in us .

So I wonder and I don't know this to be true , I'm just curious there's going to throw it out there , like I wonder if there's maybe even something there within the unconscious , kind of percolating , and then all of a sudden the ego goes I'll accept that and so it rises up and it meets the ego , and then it's like recognition , right .

So I wonder if there is this like is that ? What resonance is ? Is it we're hearing something out here for the first time and it's coming in and we're responding to that , or are we hearing something out here that's reminding us of something that's deeper , that's ?

Yes , discernment , um , but like I've , because I've like pulled a couple of my friends and people online and there's some like recurring dreams about , like ex-partners , um , that come up a lot , and so I'm curious of what that means and I think they're like it's always like it depends what are they doing ? What's the like ?

There's probably so much more context I imagine needs to happen . But , um , even with some clients , like I'm dreaming about my ex again , like does this mean I need to go back to him ? And I'm like let's slow down , right , why do we leave in the first place ? You know , like , right , let's recognize that ? Yeah , exactly .

But that's that jarring thing of like I thought I processed or I thought this person was gone , but they keep showing up in my subconscious .

So I know this is probably gonna sound a little funny to think about , but the timing I would look at and I'm not a professional astrologer or anything like that but what I have noticed is , I mean , we all know we are intimately connected with this universe and with each other and I do believe that there's certain cycles where things are closer to consciousness

that rise up and things like that . So one of the things I would look at is timing and specifically I would look at the period of Mercury retrograde .

I am not necessarily meant to proceed with this or go back to this , but how do I move forward , integrating the wisdom of this , the healing of this ? Is there something unfinished here ? And if there is , rarely , is it something in that sense that we have to go to the person with ?

It's often something unfinished within us where we can look at the person and sit with . What are the qualities ? What do I see when I think of them and write out those qualities ? What is the pattern here ? Did I have a pattern with this person ?

And if you start to see past the literal , which is really all of what the dream work is , you start to get past the face of the person and you start reading the energy and it'll reveal itself . So remember too that the psyche is self-regulating . It wants to bring us into balance . Dreams are some of the ways we compensate for that .

We will unconsciously bring these things up to be worked through that language , that communication instead of the literal . I need to go talk to him or her . Yeah , yeah , we hate , yeah , I can like you know , release some of the stress and the pressure , what do I do about this relationship ?

And working with something emotionally , psychologically , energetically , in that way , believe it or not , can also lead to pretty profound shifts that make decision making clearer . So first , if we work at it in this symbolic way and say what are the qualities , the traits , the pattern , the energy , how did I feel when I had the dream ? What was the landscape ?

What was the time ? Was I with this person at that time ? Are they older , are they younger ? There's a lot of detail .

We would sort of first , I would say , to gather all your details and write it out , sometimes by just kind of doing this and remembering that in the dream state , we're also projecting onto these forms , these objects , these metaphors , these aspects , the things that are showing up .

We're projecting onto them to get us to see the meaning , to get the ego to go oh , I can identify that . So if we can remember that , as we're thinking of that ex-partner that's showing up in the dream , we can say how is it possible that this is a part of me that I've denied , rejected , suppressed ? The quality , not the person , but the quality is .

There's something there , because oftentimes relationships are already trying to get us to do that anyway , a lot of our relationships are all about learning how to really go through this individuation process , which is the unfolding of self , the , you know , the integration of these different aspects of who we are .

So that's one thing I would say is like look at the detail , past the actual literal person and from there trust yourself . You'll be guided in different ways based on what the response is .

When you feel into that detail , when you sort of begin writing about it , thinking about it , feeling into it , the next piece that you need to know will surface in that process .

It's like there can be such a , which is so crazy , when you have a dream and then you're left with that feeling throughout the day .

And so if we say impact , a lot of us can be like , oh yeah , that was impactful for me or that left a mark , you know , emotionally , physically , whatever , but the doorway so we think of these moments , that residual feeling is a doorway into some deeper guidance , some other information .

I work with the five main , what I call core wounds , and so I'll just tell you what they are really quick . I won't go into all of them because it's a whole other conversation , but this will give some insight just around that residual feeling in the beginning of us learning how to track and trace that .

So the five loans that I've identified that I work with are rejection , abandonment , betrayal , violation and humiliation those things often will have . We'll just hear one and be like cringe or a combination of them and we know , we know on a deep level if which or all of them we've experienced in the dream state .

If we're waking up and it's usually a cheating scenario it's I . I rarely will say to someone you know , be careful , right . It's like like an alarmist sort of situation . Instead , what I would do is go to that feeling it's's again unfinished business .

In a sense , it doesn't mean that our partner isn't or is , but what it can show us is what's unfinished within the nervous system itself , and it's borrowing someone else , the image of someone else , to show us to say , hey , this is coming up and this is actually funny enough .

Another one that surfaces during Mercury retrograde , or today's an eclipse at the time of this recording I should say there's a lunar eclipse . Those are very heavily charged times which are highly beneficial for us , which bring these things to the surface , but what I would look at is say , ok , the energy of that aftermath what's really under that ?

And then what you can do is once you kind of write and I'm always writing about this like every one of my clients has like a love-hate relationship with journaling . They roll their eyes . Like please , again you're going to tell me to journal Like come on .

But , really it's the fastest conduit into our emotions that's accessible for us when we're alone or trying to process , you know , on our own . But you can use that feeling to say , okay , this is a doorway , our wounds are apertures . They are doorways into things .

They're openings into things and that doesn't mean we are a victim and we don't have to use the language of like being disempowered around the wound . It's more of an investigative type of energy .

We're like detectives going in to this stuff , right , and if we can come at it from that perspective and say , when was the last time I remember this feeling In childhood and how old was I ? What did it feel like ?

What is the story that's associated with that , the present moment , dream or nightmare is often trying to show us that unfinished business , right , the things that are still kind of circulating throughout the body soma , tissue , nervous system and coming out in this way . Our partners are different ways .

They're human beings with their own you know stuff , but they often will reflect these different things for us and we can . It's so easy for us to become angry with people for what we feel like they've done to us , whether it's a wake or a dream state , instead of being like wow , what are they revealing for me ? What's ?

But let's try this first , because usually that gives you a little more clarity , to get a little deeper into the truth of what's going on there , and then if there is some type of actual thing that needs to be dealt with , you know , in the realm of the waking life , that will give you a little more clarity .

But it's so easy to just go into paranoia or obsession over it because it feels so uncomfortable . But if we can stay with that discomfort and powerfully channel that discomfort onto the page of the journal , we get to know ourselves so much more clearly .

We can start exposing these different parts of us that are showing up in this really difficult , uncomfortable scenario . Yeah , that's so good this really difficult , uncomfortable scenario .

So do you want to do something about that . I , in a loving gentle way we could talk to ourselves . But it's just so interesting like it's staying for a reason you know , or or however .

unfinished in the sense of a part of us looking out , waiting for the other shoe to drop , waiting for our joy to be squashed , waiting for some terrible thing to happen , you know , because for some of us we don't understand our protective mechanisms of the way that we respond and how we will , sometimes unknowingly , create distance in our relationships and our

interactions so that we don't , we're not as vulnerable to being hurt again or for the first time , or whatever . so I think those dreams can also kind of like it's like it just rips off the band-Aid and is like there's no hiding from this , here we go .

Or I have to grieve , or start to grieve that now , where I thought I'd be okay with that . But now I'm like , oh , it came full force . Be like you should look at this first .

okay .

I call it being haunted on some level , right . We're haunted on some level . Again , it's unfinished business . So somebody's chasing us , we're drowning . I have somebody once told me they saw themselves jump off a cliff and land and kind of survive , but not really like very intense graphic imagery that involves being harmed , fear of being harmed , self-harm .

A lot of times it can be someone chasing us where there's another figure in the dream , but sometimes it can be nature . It can be like the cliff , the water , fire . There's different elements that come in . So , just like anything else , I would really have the the client first start with what is this pattern now ?

And I don't mean the sense of tell me what it is from start to finish , because it's usually what they don't know yet is I don't know what the pattern is , I don't know why this is circulating . So it's more of like tell me the pattern of movement , and it might be like running , drowning , chasing .

You know so that usually there's some kind of movement going on or a fear of that movement , and so that that would be one way I would work with it . But if we take something specific like drowning , for example , you've got different things . You have location may or may not be significant to the person .

I've had people share actually two drowning dreams very different . One was like in a lake . They were not familiar with the territory whatsoever , which was kind of interesting . But what that also told us in the analysis of the dream is that location . It wasn't about location , finding the place .

Sometimes that's an important detail in the dream and often , if we find ourselves dreaming terrible things , sometimes the comfort of our childhood shows up in the dream and often , if we find ourselves dreaming terrible things , sometimes the comfort of our childhood shows up in the dream by bringing us back to a space where it felt safe for us .

So there's some people where a nightmare unfolds , but in their childhood home or something like that .

So a lot of times the psyche is also trying to balance and compensate in that way of saying here's this thing , we need to look at this , but I'm going to bring you here so that it feels familiar , which might get your curiosity going and you want to figure this out . So location's important .

If other people are present or not is important , believe it or not . In the one situation where there was a pool and it wasn't the lake , there were other people in the dream and they weren't doing anything about it . In this particular client's dream it was about being witnessed . It wasn't the literal act of the water and the drowning .

It's the fact that she felt invisible in her life and here she's overwhelmed , which is water can be overwhelmed and emotion A lot of times it's symbolic of that type of thing . But then we can look at how that specifically plays out for us .

But there were witnesses that were not helping , that didn't seem to care , and there were people there she recognized , people there she didn't recognize and , interestingly , when we started to break down the dream , the ones that she didn't recognize didn't at play within her , where she never felt like she belonged in the family and she never really spoke her truth or

showed up in a way that felt authentic . And so this dream was showing up . There were so many things that came out of that specific dream for that client . But the environment we're in it sounds kind of silly . But the type of water Is it clear ? Is it dark and murky ? Is it familiar ?

Is it not just in a location we might recognize , but location like period of time ? How old are we in this dream , you know , are we ? I had a water .

It wasn't a drowning dream , but it was being chased by a tsunami and I was like seven or eight years old and I had when the dream started , and this dream maybe even younger than that actually , but it carried on for a couple of years and every time the wave went to like crush my family and crush me , I would wake up .

But there was this weird residual sense , like somehow I felt like I got away , like that was the weird thing . I would wake up and feel like I escaped the tsunami . Well , in real life , in waking life , I was one of the people I would say in my family that did a lot of work to break a lot of ancestral patterns and generational trauma type of things .

So there's so many different ways to look at these things . Like I'm saying and you can start with these basic sort of ideas of , the biggest thing that is important to do is to come right into that symbolic attitude , to say , not literally , I'm not going to think of this as an I'm going to drown or there's going to be a problem here .

I'm going to look at this as in I'm going to drown or there's going to be a problem here . I'm going to look at this symbolically . What could the water represent ?

What's happening is I'm drowning in my feeling and this is going to be hard , because it can be traumatizing to get really specific about these details and write out how we feel and the emotion and all of that in the journal initially starts to diffuse them , so that we can investigate the details with a little less emotion and get a little bit closer to what

this symbolism might be trying to show us . But those are all different things I would look at , including what am I wearing ? You know what is that ? Is there a temperature , a season ? Is there ? So , just like if you were to show up at a friend's house and they would say to you I really need your help , I lost my keys .

There's things you would ask your friend right , there would be things you would do to help them retrace their steps . Dream work is kind of similar . You keep asking questions . Dreamwork is kind of similar .

You keep asking questions , you keep letting it unfold , you keep kind of just tracing these invisible threads to see , because you , the participant or the therapist or the analyst , with the client , together you create this field and so you're both in each other's psyches , which means you , as the therapist , have access to the parts that the client dreamed of , that

they're trying to unlock . So together you can really make some progress on revealing these things . It's important to know it's not fast work and it's one of the most frustrating things when it comes to dreams is people want an answer right away .

Every now and then , when you analyze a dream , you can get some instant feedback and feel like , oh my gosh , that was right on target or I feel so much relief , I connected these pieces . And it can take months sometimes before something happens and the connections are made . Dreams also connect to synchronicity in our waking life .

So in your dream state you have all these things showing you different elements and then in your waking life , if you're paying attention , it's eerie , but all of a sudden somebody will talk about their dream or water or drowning or something that will like sort of trigger you in a way to go oh my gosh , that was just so uncanny that they said that thing and

I had this dream and it's the universe sort of go and your psyche going . Pay attention , here I'm bringing you pieces . It's your work to connect the dots and to know that there's something deeper going on here to organize all of this on your behalf yeah , I had a dream recently that I it was raining and I was like I went to a doctor's appointment .

And then all of a sudden , I like hit a huge puddle of water , like a body of water , like a lake , but it would just like all of a sudden came and I remember my car sinking and I'm just like , fine , just find , um the window , just find the window , just find the window .

And I'm like I'm not even looking at the window , I'm like just searching for it in my hand . And I got out , um , and I remember thinking like , oh , my god , are my kids in the car ? Oh no , thank god , my kids aren't in the car . And it was just like so crazy .

Um , and then you like wake up , but it just was like I think you know you can be as open as you want to your own interpretations and I think the more open and curious you are because I was making connections as you were talking of , like I can survive this , I'm going to be so crap , you guys . It's eclipse , what is it ? New moon eclipse .

I'm like so emotional .

The type of sight that we need to navigate darkness , challenge , indecision comes from the depths of who we are . Your body , instinctively , was like I can feel through the window . I don't need to see it with my eyes . I know it's there . Does that resonate ? No , I'm just crying .

I would have never thought about that , but it did feel like that sense of calm , a little bit Like just find the one note you got , I did feel like that sense of calm , a little bit like just find the window .

I'm trying to be delicate when I say this because there's a lot of overtones that can cause fear for us . And I'm not anti-religion . I think it's a beautiful thing for people and we have to be cautious because sometimes our interpretation , if it's colored with this religious context , can create more fear .

But the reason I'm saying that is the descent is like the sinking down and in . But some of us , if there is like association with the underworld , meaning hell and this terrible thing , we're going to feel more fear instead of no , actually this descent , this down and in , is about our humanity and really just it's pulling us into something .

It's actually pulling us in , like if we think of your dream as body of water . So I'm even thinking about the emotional body because of the way you worded that was like body of water , you didn't just say , like the lake , the puddle was . The puddle became the ocean , you know , or something like that . It was like this body of water .

So our language , even when we're describing our own dreams , is extremely symbolic and it takes us just being open and intuitive to that . So that , to me , also says I'm willing to go into this , to do this thing , to find my way through . I'm a mother , I love my children . They're not here . I feel relief over that and this , because this is my journey .

This is my journey and they'll have their own , you know . But for now it's me in the depths of this and I can do this , and my spirit's guiding me through this .

It's like it brings it all out . It doesn't take away from it , it doesn't chip away or dismantle it , it doesn't disempower you , it's quite the opposite . Um , and so I think it's such a valuable thing for people who are listening and watching to see , because often that part is shielded from things . We're kind of like it's almost like separated .

I can't even tell you how many of these , uh , these , these podcasts and things I've done where it's like things like that , are edited out and I'm always kind of like , no , that's gonna help someone so much to just to resonate with the humanity of this pivotal moment , um .

So I'm always like my clients will joke with me and be like wow , melissa , I've been talking to you for six minutes and I haven't thrown up or cried yet and at first I was like damn that's harsh and then I realized you know , there's some people where just you just get around them and I don't know if you've ever had this happen , but I have this one

mentor . I could just walk into her space and look at her and it just , it just starts pouring out of me because she's such a safe person . Such a safe person , she holds you without even having to physically hold you . I just can't explain it , but there's something like that .

That's just so when you find those people hold on to them you know because this world can be really challenging , and even though we have this psyche guiding us and these beautiful inner world of our , our dreams and all of these things , we , our humanity , just wants to remind us too that , like , we're not alone and we're not doing this alone .

So we need people to kind of reflect that in this very human , physical way too , I love that .

do . I like cry because it's real and you know I'm not here . Oh , jen's crying again this week . You know like it is what it is because it's real life , you know , and I can't . It's like I can't live a double life forever and I don't want to here , and so thank you for letting me and creating safety for me .

Sessions , or what if it takes a long time ? What does that actually look like ?

The reason I'm sharing this is because there's so many different types of therapy and processing and support and psychotherapy and all these different modalities and tools and all of them are fabulous .

When it comes to dreams , the richest experience for me personally as a client , as a patient , has been through working with an analyst and essentially it's because they have these certain things that they do that are a little different than the typical world of dream work that I've experienced with other people .

So there isn't a timeline which you could say , okay , it's this many sessions or this is going to be how it works , which kind of blew my mind , by the way , when I found out about analysis and analysts Some of these people , the average relationship is like 10 years . Yeah , yeah , want to be working with somebody for so long .

But it's not this idea like some types of therapy . It's like , oh , I'm broken , Let me go in to you , know , fix my problem . Analysts . It's more like we're going to have a relationship . I'm going to reflect things to you and I'm going to , we're going to integrate things and you're going to do the same for me . It's really this co-creative thing .

So in a dream state , it really depends on what's being , what's moving through you with a particular dream . It is something where you could have a call with somebody one time and kind of go over some basics and say , here's what I'm getting .

But then what happens is when things move up into conscious awareness , just like you were experiencing , right , the emotion that's moving through , you're going to continue to process this dream , this dream , that moment now , even if you had that dream 10 years ago , right , it's going to keep unfolding .

So it depends on do we need to be safely psychologically held through that ? Can we do that on our own ? I think that's a personal choice . I'm pretty good at that . So I'm like help me dig in , reflect the crazy shit , and then I'm pretty good at like OK , now I'm on my own and I can , I can sift through it all .

But it depends on the person and the graphic nature of it . Because I'll be honest and say there's some , while we all know that , there's some terrible dreams that are really haunting and extremely graphic and extremely graphic and that could take some time to break down , especially if it does involve our children or other things .

Especially , I've worked with a lot of dreams that involve accidents and things that are terrifying and they plague the parent for a while or themselves just for for obvious reasons , and it isn't the literalness of it , it's helping process and regulate the nervous system through that . But there's different ways to go about it .

I say look for an analyst or look for someone that understands and again , this is just my personal preference but Jungian dream work specifically , Because if you work with people who practice psychotherapy and do dream work , you might get a Freudian person , which is amazing , but it's a very different set of , it's a different perspective .

So it's always like see what you resonate with . The reason I love the analyst route is because this type of psychology embraces the idea that there is this hidden part of us called the unconscious . Some people refer to it as the subconscious . Any discipline that leaves that part of us out . For me personally , doesn't feel complete .

So , when you're thinking about all this that would be one of the questions I would ask is in your work , what do you think about the unconscious or subconscious ? Do you believe in that part and that can help you very quickly , Sort of like go , oh , this person is like no , I don't believe in that , I only believe in you know what our thoughts create .

Okay , that's cool and I would say then they may not be as well attuned to the dream world , but there's a lot of different ways that you can go about it and I don't know if I just answered your question or not , and I don't know if I just answered your question or not ?

One of the things that people will do with me is they either come in through a program so I have a shadow work program I work with which is about six weeks , six phone calls , six modules of material , but it's kind of geared around the different processes of the psyche , how it works , and then with each phone call we have , we kind of reflect on these

different elements In between . They will dream usually and that's where some of the dreams or nightmares come in . Another way to go about it is I'll just work with someone based on the amount of time they have . I haven't really had anybody request any more than once a week .

But I also am right now working with people who I would say are , have the capacity to , you know , do a lot of things and are would be considered average or would be considered someone who doesn't need a lot of extra support .

Maybe they're not suffering from some type of like psychosis or neurosis or something else where you're going to need more attention and more , and the dream state in those people , like in those types of individuals , can be very rich and vivid and it's a whole other layer of things . I'd say once a week is probably pretty good .

For the average person that can even be a lot . I have some clients I work with that two weeks is nice , it just really depends . Some clients I work with that two weeks is nice , it just really depends . I think it's looking at our needs . Some people once a week they feel like , oh my gosh , I don't have enough time . It's like everything .

There was so much that went on in this session and now processing it and here I'm talking to you again so soon I didn't even have time to do the homework and stuff . And then I have other people where it's like once every two weeks they feel like a year has passed .

Here's how I'm going to give you some of the steps of analysis when it comes to dream analysis , because I'm not technically a Jungian analyst at this point .

So when I'm doing these sessions with people , I'm still doing this through the lens of like a clinical hypnotherapist , because even as a depth psychologist , I am not a licensed psychotherapist , so I don't go into that realm of therapy with people . But the analysis part is more like reflecting .

Dream analysis is more like reflecting and giving ideas around these things Say OK , here's the four ways that you would be able to interpret your dream , or learn how to interpret your dream Depends on each of us because , again , some of us like to have more support around steps and working through things

. And other people are like just give me what I got to know , yeah , and I'll process or work through , and then I'll reach out to you when I'm feeling stuck or having a concern . So , yeah , just it's all over the place .

I'm going to give you these four steps and please just know these are very much like . Each one of these has so much information that you can really draw on from your dream . But the first step for every single person regardless , is write out the whole dream , and I mean the whole thing .

Some dreams are only 10 seconds long , but we're not just focusing on like the man came to the car . You know that could be . The narrative of your story , of your dream is like I just remember there was this man standing by the car and you write that down . But when you write out your dream , write it all out .

What did you see , what did you feel , what did you hear ? Somatically , what did you feel in your body ? Can you remember ? And if you can't remember , you don't know , that's okay , but you're just sort of like checking the boxes to see if there's just a little more and a little more and a little more .

This is going to give you the most clarity on trying to put it all together After you kind of go through . Okay , what did you see , sense , feel , hear and what did you somatically experience ? The next layer of the first part of writing it all out is what thoughts or feelings or sensations came up as you were waking , when you're coming out of the dream .

I can consider all of that , that first layer of just write it all down . Even if it's rambling , it doesn't have to be in order . Most dreams the elements aren't in an order . That's really significant . Anyway , sometimes they can be , but it's more about you're getting the symbols that are popping up . So that's part one . Start to finish write the whole thing .

Next thing we do is we look for something called a central image . A central image is essentially the thing that has the most energy , the most emotional charge for you . So , for example , you write out the dream and we're using this silly example of like a man you know came to the car window or something .

Well , was it the car that felt really off or different or not , even in a dream . It doesn't have to be a nightmare , right , it just might be getting your attention . Was there something weird , unique , different about the car that stands out , or the man , the look in his face , the feeling in your body ?

So again , you're just next level of what has the most charge and you write about that . So we call that the central image . So that's step two . Some people are going to revisit each one of these stages that I'm kind of mentioning . You might revisit over and over for the same dream , to draw out more detail .

So if you're like , well the man and the car both feel charged to me . Start with one , go through the whole process , come back into the same dream and say OK , now when I'm thinking about this other detail , just like your dream , the water , the car , the window , that everything had charge to it . But if we start breaking that down we can get more clarity .

So that's step two is the central image . What has the most energy ? The third is engaging with the central image . This is the thing that is . It's going to ask you to really let yourself be with the imagination , because you're going to imagine engaging with the central image .

So sometimes we call this guided imagery , sometimes we call this Jungian analysis , and Jungian analysis they'll call it active imagination , where you actively engage in an imagination way with the image . So if I were to imagine that I'm engaging with a man who came to the window , I might close my eyes , I might pretend he's right there .

I might ask myself what do I feel about him being there ? I might ask him who are you ? What are you here to tell me ?

So if , all of a sudden , the man that the psyche is speaking to us , so when we hear or sense or feel things , it's real . So if all of a sudden , the man says I'm here to show you something that you have been denying within yourself ?

Or the man might say something like check your mailbox , yeah , like you never know , right , it's getting some random thing . Look under your bed , you know , pay your phone bill . I have no idea . But there's all these different things .

So when we engage with these images , again , we don't want to take what they're saying literally , but we write down that material because you never know .

So that's the third step is writing down all these important , relevant themes , engaging with them , and if it doesn't have an emotional charge , you don't have to focus on the detail , you don't have to engage in this active imagination process with everything .

Because if you write out your dream and you're like , there's like 30 different things or people or circumstances in this Go with the most charge . Where do you feel drawn to ? And trust that ?

And then , if you're missing something or if it just feels like you haven't quite hit it , it'll keep kind of scanning in your mind , trying to remember the different parts of your dream . Then look at your writing . Something will jump out and get your attention . But the very last step , honestly , is just putting these pieces together .

Okay , I wrote it all out . I paid attention to the central image . I engage with the central image . What is going on here ? Is there anything I'm feeling , sensing , seeing as a symbolic ? Did I have an insight or awareness ? Is there a synchronistic event that happened ? So this whole process , you can do this in an hour or two .

But the the other part of putting the pieces together , this is what could take weeks , where you have to go out in the lights , go to work , do your thing before something drops in , before something rises up from your consciousness , to go aha , oh , my gosh , I got it . But that usually will happen after we move through these phases .

So first phase was write it out . Second was look for the central image or images . Third was engage with the image through active imagination . And then fourth is putting the pieces together , and that's essentially what we would do .

It's just you could take any of these and you could spend two hours on the first part , or five minutes or two hours on the third part so yeah , it's very unique process depending on the person .

Like it felt like oh , that's a big missing piece for me , that that my um soul , or like my inner knowing , was there and I'm like , oh , that feels , and that feels empowering , that feels like I almost can reframe the dream and pull what I really needed from that again as a reminder of who I am even if the circumstance feels scary , I'm going to cry again .

We call it a dark night of the soul and I'll never forget what came out of my mouth because I'd never said it before , never considered it .

But we were kind of like we were at the end of the session and just sort of reflecting on some of the things that came up and I was sharing a little personal detail because sometimes I'll do that if there's a story that's relevant to the client situation , I might share something to say hey , you know , because it can spark something for them .

It feels terrible .

And what I was getting in that moment of recognizing that within myself and then sort of like honoring her experience of that too , my intuition , my soul , whatever you want to call it and my intuition , my soul , whatever you want to call it showed me this image and it was me , not literally , but just in this metaphorical way me sitting on the floor with my

back against a door and I'm just like crying and I'm in it . I'm in pretty dark in the room and I hear a whisper through the door and it's my soul and it's on the other side and it's like I haven't left you , I'm not going anywhere , I'm right here , but this is the space where , for right now , you need to be , to get to know yourself .

Oh , it's like overwhelming . I want to cry just saying that .

I felt so cut off from that , so it was like my soul saying it's like it's ear to the door , like a loving parent , that's like . I know you're in there crying in your crib . I can't come rescue you because this is needed . But I'm here , I'm with you and it was just like that , and I've never forgotten that moment .

But what I do think is possible is we can always find that sense of as terrible as this is . I know I can find my personal meaning not assigning it this beautiful quality to say this terrible thing has purpose , but more like my resiliency , my getting through that has meaning for me .

And that image of there's my soul at the door , letting me be here , almost like an act of love , even though we get so angry and mad and we feel like we're being punished . It's not . It takes so much restraint , can you imagine ? It's almost like .

Imagine that somebody is going through an addiction right , and they're healing and they're dealing with the core wounds and the substance . They're detoxing it and they just want it so bad and you can't give it to them . It's an act of love to not give them what they want .

to deepen and you want to know yourself more , or you cut yourself off emotionally and say I'm not going to , I can't even hear anything on the other side of the door . Nothing exists there , you know , and there's times where it feels like that . Nothing exists there , you know , and there's times where it feels like that .

But I do think it is like I'm being shaped currently and I have a knowing that everything is going to be okay and fine and better , but the the moment in the current , is like , um , that's the hardest part is connecting that , connecting that the soul's on the other side , um , but then it also there's been times where I'm like very upset and crying and then

I like kind of connect .

I always go up , like with my hand , but I like connect to like my higher self . And there's this . I get this weird , like like calming no , that's like your descent in the car .

As a human like I wanted to , gut-wrenching pain , and I'm like , here it is , this is it that I get that too .

I get what you're saying , because what I feel in that is different . It's like no , if I on some level chose this , that means it's because I know I can do it can do it . A part of me knows that I will get through this , that there's something here for me . Um , I can I share like a little story quick like a million stories .

Um , I had a friend call me this week and I can't go into specific details because there's like an ongoing investigation in this really weird sort of police situation . But I had a friend call and she we were just kind of catching up a little bit and I'm like how was your week ? And she was like weird , let me tell you .

And she kind of launches into some really bizarre details .

But the reason this feels so significant , because we're talking about these darker places and the dark night of the soul and when we feel like , you know , we're just going through all of this stuff , and so there was a really terrible thing that had occurred and somebody was on their way to her home and she was expecting them and they didn't show up right away

and she was like oh , it's kind of odd .

And then she gets a phone call and they're all distraught and they , they end up , you know , getting to her house and there was a I can't really sugarcoat this they found a dead body like on the side of the road and the person going to their house found a dead body okay , found the dead body on their on their way . Is this ?

By your hometown , because last time you talked about this is actually in a whole other state , okay , um , yeah , I know these things come to me though , like yeah all these things . So , um , so she was like , oh my gosh , that's , you know , that's terrible , and they were really shooken up by the whole thing .

And , um , and she's like , well , we need to call the police . She starts like the voice of reason , like there's things we should probably do here . So they , they call the police and the police are like we're on our way and obviously they want to talk to all of them and question them .

My friend goes , she looks to her husband and she says I need to go over there . And her husband's like you're not going to the dead body , what are you talking about ? And she was like there's a bus stop there . Oh , this makes me emotional .

There's a bus stop there and there's going to be children that are going to be going to that bus stop and I'm going to go so that I can make sure that they don't have to see this .

Wow , so she gets in her car , she drives and positions her vehicle in a way where nobody can see the you know the situation and without disturbing the crime scene , and she just sat and waited . The police show up and they're like are you a first responder ? And she's like no . They're like why did you ?

Do that and she said I just I felt like it was the right thing to do . I just felt like if I could stop more harm from being done in this situation , Right . However , she didn't say . that's how I'm like reflecting on what she told me that I remember how she said it and I just remember being overwhelmed with such love and appreciation for my friend .

I was like there's people that are being perfectly positioned in the darkest of places . Now you got me now I'm crying again . Right , this is , this is the episode of tears . Now , you got me now . Yes , you are crying again . Right , this is the episode of tears .

Yes , but every time we've like and that's an unfathomable thing right To just encounter such a difficult , dark part of humanity Like , oh , that doesn't happen on just a regular basis for most of us . And this person , this friend of mine , has been involved in things like this , where she just happens to be the person . She would not think this .

She's the sweetest , kindest , most loving person and she just has this fierceness that , when it comes down to it , she's there , she's perfectly positioned , because some part of her knows this is my job right now .

My job right now is to prevent further harm , and this is the way I bring my light into this darkness and I just I think it serves us to remember there's a lot of people doing those things in different ways that we don't always see . Just like hey , go here Because you know , what Everybody else was opposite direction .

They want to go the opposite direction , away from the pain , away from the ugliness , away from the horrible thing . And her instinct was go here as the protector , like , oh my gosh , that just there's something so powerful about that . That really shook me . And it's funny because she none of this was in her .

She was not at all thinking that what she had done was heroic or amazing . She was just like it's the right thing to do . And I'm like , and if , if she would have chosen not to go , if she would have chosen not to go , be around that or see that , that would have been completely acceptable too , right .

But it's just this idea that sometimes people will do things that we don't even comprehend and they're helping to shield us from further harm , and pain and I know , in such a tragic situation it's difficult because we know a life was lost At the end of the day we know that to be true , and maybe just from this one person engaging with this intuitive part of

them that said just go here , we don't know how many were prevented from unnecessary harm .

heard , like you know when tragedy strikes , like look for the helpers . Have you ever heard that ?

Um , that's it like for the helpers and yeah , just never know , and we never know when we're being called to something I had , oddly enough , in the same week , another person had reached out um , it was a very delicate situation , so I'm you know I'm not going to go into the details of that , but it was just like the reminder of , oh my gosh , these

individuals are , are just doing things that are so easy to to overlook and yet they have such a huge significance and the result of the outcome , and I think it's it just , it's so humbling to think about that . Like , sometimes we want these grand their intuition , saying just go here , you don't even know why .

Just go here , follow this thing , listen to this , and we never know the ripple effect that has . But I believe in that deeply .

But I'm so excited and it's all about shadow work and , in a creative way , working with intense themes shocker , yeah , and fairy tales to help us see things within ourselves and these stories so that we can work on these different parts that are difficult to encounter .

It's going to be like hardcover images where the imagery is going to be matched with the themes and the words , so it's going to be a really beautiful book . I can't even wait , yeah , yay with the themes and the words .

Usually I don't listen to episodes again , but I had to because it was just so so good . If you love the episode , please let us know by giving us a review up on Apple Podcasts , as that helps our little show grow . Thank you so much for being here . We'll see you next time .