¶ Supporting LGBTQ+ Youth
Welcome to How We Get Through the podcast , where we share stories , mental health insights and healing advice on life's everyday challenges . I'm your host , jen , a licensed therapist and founder of the How We Get Through app . We are back with Nick Berry , a licensed marriage and family therapist from Los Angeles .
In this episode , we talk about the current divide and acceptance of the LGBTQ plus community and how we can provide love and education to bridge the gap . Nick gives us a closer look into his own path and identity as a gay man and the work he has done to love himself and ultimately help others do the same . Check it out . Hello . Welcome back for part two .
We are with Nick Berry , a licensed marriage and family therapist in downtown LA . What , what I mean ? we like to be sassy in the beginning , but then we go really deep at the end , so , or towards the middle . So we just had The piece .
I just gave was not in response to downtown Los Angeles , because I do love it , Contradictory to the myth and the nimbus , nowhere downtown Los Angeles . it is not crazy . Yes , it is eclectic and moments , but that piece was in response to this like like water bottle spell , like it was slimy and like what is that ?
Oh yeah , you got to wash that And I never do Yes for the listener . You got to wash the little thing of your water bottle , the straw and the inside .
Don't sleep on that . Yes .
Yay . Okay , so we're back and we kind of wanted to dive a little bit deeper into how we can support our kids if they're wanting to talk about their sexuality , maybe give us a couple of tips and even like expanding the idea of who can be like a safe person for someone that is exploring their sexuality .
Like . I think like , when it comes to like , if I like change , like agents of change , I think that the first thing that needs to be present is a sense of safety , right , Like , a sense of like physical safety .
And so , looking at kind of like all of the all of the legislation that's growing into effect that can be difficult to to like , fine , right , And so I think , with even with abortion and women's like bodily rights , I think that that's also the thing .
Like , this thing that I know it needs to happen , that I'm making the decision about is not available And I need to go somewhere . I need to put myself through extra like possible danger to like get to something that I know that I need right , But other people are telling me that I can't have it .
And so I think you know in childhood you know that , yeah , we have to like , we have to respect our parents when it comes to certain things .
We can't be like no F you mom , I'm not going to go , you're not going to be any opinion about your deli sandwich , Like right , right , right But when it comes to like sexuality , like I think that there are a lot of kids that are even not even kids , like , i think , young adults , adults , that are really terrified of the repercussions of what they're going
to experience if they go against what their parents believe and say they should be and do right . So physical safety is extremely important .
So , whether that's seeking out , whether you're going to a place that you know offers services for LGBTQIA plus people , or you are making friends with people that are more supportive of you , i think that it's important to just really ensure your safety , and I think that adds kind of a little bit of anxiety .
Like , oh my gosh , am I doing this behind someone's back ? But I think , if you're not sure how to obtain those services or to kind of have access to those , i think also there are parents that are very like with social media , with like technology . Parents are like monitoring children's , like I mean , whether it's grades , whether it's social media .
So there is that added element of will my parents see my history on my on internet ?
So it makes it difficult for people to really even question if that's what they are , if they really are gay , if they're lesbian , if they're transgender , because the fear of even being curious is just so yeah , and so I think you know , i don't know how it's for you growing up , but curiosity about some things was fine , you know , like Hey .
I think that was my problem .
I want to make a video on her , so that's , that's fine . Where's the Right ?
But I like want to kind of speak to like the different variations of like .
Even if your parents don't say we don't support the gay and queer community , it's almost like what they don't say Right , Like how , or the certain expectation or the unsaid expectations , And so like that's where I think parents can really kind of step in and maybe they're scared to as well . But like , what are we saying ? What are we saying versus not saying ?
Right . And then you know , i think , looking at parents that are being parents , that are , just , you know , communication is valued , right , but what type of communication is what we should really be paying attention to ? And so like , or is what we're saying versus what we're doing conflicting , right ? And kids are like .
Kids are more , like , absorbent of implicit information , right ? Like , screw what you say , mom , i'm not going to do that . But , like , when I watch mom do this , that doesn't really match what mom says to me , right ? And so if curiosity isn't encouraged , then kids can be like , hey , why did you ?
why did you do that when you told me that I can't do that ? Right ? So we , we , we go through this life with a sense of distrust , or parents , right ?
Yeah .
I think another good example is like I will always love you no matter what , or you can talk to me about anything at any time , but if those like channels of communication aren't always physically present or physically seen or tangible , it feels like You will love me on a condition that if I do something bad and this is like I think this goes for like a gamut
of things Right , but it's it's goes from sexuality to I light about something , and now you're gonna think I'm so what and so Yeah , and I think that's that concrete thinking of children . Yes , that is so important that we have to really Keep showing up like that and like being Consistent , and in both what we're seeing and what we're doing .
Well , i mean , you know , I think that's why , like , educating ourselves is so important , having like access to apps and things like this that are That are raising questions .
It's like that and I bring a Bernie brown back into this again and give some imperfection when She uses the example of in a classroom full of people , the instructor teaching basically calculus , and people are just like , like the person that's , like I have no idea what the hell this person like and they're looking around And it's the whole like in-group outgroup
thing , right , where , if the majority is not doing something or doing something That we don't want to be part of the outgroup , so we're gonna just go along with what everybody else is doing . And so when somebody finally says , you know what , like That doesn't make sense , why I even need calculus , like what's like , why do I need that ?
And so then it's like , when somebody finally steps up , then everybody else is like , yeah , that doesn't make sense either , right , and then when they're confronted like why didn't you say anything ? They're like , uh , like , then we're put on the spot , right , yeah , yeah .
So having information like this , i think , really starts to elicit questions that parents might have , that might be afraid to ask , and so Let's say , a parent is , you know , skeptical or is , hmm , my kid fits into what I'm seeing here and what I'm seeing here is very like , dangerous .
Like if I , if my kid , if I even associate my kid with that , then my protection mechanism goes into overdrive and I'm like , no , not happening , and it's not . It , it's not a thing .
Like a denial .
Yeah . And so when kid is like hey , i'm part of this , parents like no , no , no , you're not that , you're not that yeah .
Because you're not supposed to be .
I'm supposed to protect you . Right , i know what's best for you .
Yeah , which is ? I mean . I think it makes a good point again on the empathy for parents . When we're seeing legislation legislation Against the gay and queer community , and how hard it is and everything , even in living in California , you know I'm like , hey , yeah , right , but it's , it is scary .
It is scary for a parent to Have your child go in a place where you know you can't protect them and , at the same time , love them and equip them of getting through that or going there and supporting what they need to do . Both exist .
Great , and you know , i think I see that I'm sure when you worked with , like you worked in eating disorders primarily right , i mean , it's the same was like the addiction to drugs , like an addictive mechanism .
So , looking at Kids that like , or young adults , teenagers that are addicted to whatever it is , a lot of them will say I Was told from early on that I was not allowed to do drugs , i wasn't allowed to drugs , i wasn't allowed to hang out with so-and-so .
I was on him so-and-so because Parents were so , especially back in like the 80s and 90s like To run , like dare was like a thing , and so there was this like war on drugs , the same with HIV and AIDS .
Like People were so scared that they were like nope , i don't want you part of that , so you're never going to do anything that might put you at risk of like contracting that thing , right , addiction , aids , hiv , whatever it is , and so What that does , though , is it rubs Someone of the natural like in the lifespan . Teenagers are supposed to challenge .
Teenagers are supposed to have . What their parents tell them is the foundation , and if it's a , if it's a like secure foundation . Now They're confronted with peers who expose them to differing values and differing ideas , and then they get to . They get to adolescence , and Adolescence
¶ Parenting and Self-Regulation
is their time to be like . Well , mom , if you said I can't do so-and-so because that's gonna do what , like such and such to me . Let's find out exactly , and so that's the time where we're like , oh , i should listen , like , oh , i failed , but you know what ? I'm still around and I'm gonna do it differently . The next .
Yeah so when we rob our kids up those and it makes sense because I think back when , you know , attachment became a thing , when humanity became a thing It's like we didn't have all of these external threats right . So it's easy to let our kid go like hang out at the banana tree , like with the monkeys and be like here I for exactly it's .
But now we have down at the the H mark or the corner mark with We do have an H here .
Yeah , that's .
That's delicious , but it's like the . You know , come home when the street like it's on or whatever right like we're gonna go roller skating in the Coldest sack or whatever right ? Absolutely No it doesn't exist like that anymore either .
No , and I think you know , especially like if there is any sort of indication , whether it's stated or whether it's implied , that the child is questioning or maybe like identifying as a different orientation or identity . Like You know , we go to these things to like our to protect right .
We like our community , we're a communal species , so we are intent , like we are designed to like , protect and look out for .
So that's what our natural like protective mechanism is in order to ensure survival , and so it makes it makes all sense why a parent is going to be like whenever there's a threat Nope , i'm gonna react the way I know that a threat should be reacted to . I talked about them on the course of like perceived threat versus real threat .
I think parents really kind of Forget to keep that in mind because they're so Amped up by this like fear culture that we have right now where they're not able to say you know what Cool .
I live in California and there are so many resources available to these people that This , the Center for LGBTQI teens , is down the street and so they can just go down there . Yeah , there might something might happen , but I can't prevent something might happening to happen in the future every time .
Yeah yeah .
So I think I think a lot of that is really like learning skills that are gonna help in the moment . Hey , you want to protect your kid , give them advice , like hey , watch out , make sure you sit by a door , or anything like that . But like , how do I deal with that ?
And it's the same thing where people that have been in Relationships where there's been like infidelity right Moving forward , they're in a relationship and their partners like I'm gonna go to the bar with my friends and like The person is like , oh my god , make sure you text me , make sure you do this , make sure you do this .
And it's like , how do we manage that distress of the worst case scenario happening ?
Yeah , like biggest parenting or life tip is just learn to regulate yourself .
Yeah , i'd ask you . The other day you posted that thing on like mom anxiety or something and I was like , does this apply to gay dad ? Gay , plant that anxiety to like do I water my in ficus too much ?
like I Absolutely exact same thing . Exact same thing , yeah .
But I think there is like Sometimes , as parents to , you kind of have to like pick your battles of what you're gonna lose your shit about as well , like their school shootings happening every day or My kids questioning their sexuality , like let's , let's put some stuff in Perspective , but also like when we are able to do our own work , when we are able to
regulate , then we get to help our children as well , even in the unspoken Pieces of that , right in the co-regulation of it , in the action of I'm scared for you and I love you and Let's do this together .
Yeah , and that's I mean that's . You know , in the in the howl portion of the course , we go through like different , like things to say , things to do , like hey , come over here and make this sandwich with me while we talk about things to kind of like de-escalate But also create like a the co-regulation that's necessary , and then have the conversation .
We're like , hey , i need to go outside and like take a walk . What you told me is really overwhelming right now , like being honest , like Communicating emotion , because growing up I saw emotions but I didn't know what they . I knew angry . I knew I knew okay , that was what I do , and so I didn't know .
Like I'm angry because I'm feeling really neglected as a parent because so-and-so isn't doing their job , because that's not something that should be communicated to the child . But if I'm able to recognize , wow , i'm feeling this way because partner didn't do their , their end of the bargain , and so I'm feeling really neglected and betrayed .
But I need to go deal with that somewhere else so that I can process through that , because what you're experiencing has nothing to do with What I'm going through right now .
Yeah , which is , i mean , what I'm obviously learning now in how to communicate , that of like I feel really upset or I feel really angry and the communication part to my kids is like , and it's not from you And it's not yours to hold , and I'm going to be fine And I'm working through this and I love you and I'm sorry it's impacting you .
You know , like it's just this because of that black and white thinking for children and that beautiful sensitivity around their world and other people and some kids are more sensitive than others . My daughter is a Gemini , so you know it's .
It is that like I see you picking up on this and I and I'm wanting you to like put it down because it isn't yours And that's obviously a work in progress .
Nobody's going to get it right , but I think the the willingness for parents to do a little bit more work each day or each year or whatever it is like , because I think it can be overwhelming of the amount of things that we have to do , but I think as long as you're on the journey of it for yourself , it will impact your kids on this beautiful bigger level
. But we have to dig deep . You have to dig deep , even like thinking you don't have any bias around the gay and queer community . Well , do you and do you not ? You talked a little bit about that in the first one , but like what actually like ? can you sit with yourself in that ?
Yeah , and I think even you know , i think a lot of people automatically assume that this , like homophobia , exists only within the heterosexual community
¶ Homophobia in LGBTQ+ Spaces
. But , like I was mentioning earlier , internalized homophobia is present in the gay community as well . And you know , grab , like going to Long Beach , i experienced a lot of that . Like what are you doing ? Like why are you ? like there's a lot of that And you have to like really be confronted with that and ask yourself , why am I feeling this way ?
Well , it's because of what I Give me an example of that .
So , like one example , i remember like , and I think it was in high school or like just out of high school and someone gay had come , was on TV and they were just very like , free to be themselves , right . And I think you know , flamboyant would be a word that people would use to describe that .
And so I remember someone saying in my family , saying , you know , i don't mind that they're gay , but why do they have to be so loud like that ?
And so you , like , go into the community where , like , we're talking about scarcity , where we want to live in the moment , to make the most of it , and you were like , or finding yourself like at the pride parade , being like oh , why are you wearing that ? Why are you wearing that ?
Like so I think You're too loud Yeah .
So people that are very like cis-het presenting like myself , cis-gender , heterosexual presenting sometimes we're like we're at this way , which is valued in the gay community , sometimes is like a blessing and a curse . And then we're like well , everybody should be like this . If I can be like this and I'm gay , then why can't other people be like this ?
Well , other people weren't given the opportunity to be like that , so they have to make the most of it right . And so I think that's internalized homophobia .
And so I think , even like , when you look at people in the community , you know you have a lot of people that identify as part of the community that will say I'm not going to be one of ours because I can't stand to be around gays .
Wow , and so like even parents that are like that identify as the part of the community also should be mindful of how they're communicating their beliefs , or being mindful of their actions or their facial expressions .
Yeah , yeah .
Because that's like kids , like that's like that's where we automatically go .
That's what they're looking at . Yeah , exactly .
Exactly .
Yeah , i love that . Thank you for that example , because I You're welcome . I think it's helpful to get like a concrete experience of it .
And I just was like smiling because when you're talking about like your appearance and we've never met in person , but Ray , my husband has filmed , your course , and he's like , oh , he's like a big dude , he's like real tall .
I was telling a client last night . I was like I'm thinking about going back to the office like one day a week . He's like oh , he's like cool . And he's like I mean it was like how tall are you ? And he's like I'm 6'6" And he's like 6'6" everyone 6'6" Nick .
Yeah , are your parents tall ?
My dad was 6'4" , my mom was 5'9" , so my sister's tall , so it just runs in my room . Yeah , yeah , yeah Yeah but going back to the parents . You know , in the course we talk about like the fear , we talk about the messaging that's sent , like if my kid tells me they're gay , oh my gosh .
But like going back to like non-conforming parents , like queer parents , like if they've had a negative experience where they were bullied , where they like had to grow up in , like Tennessee . Like if they hear that their kid is gay , they're like nope .
If there's like this parody I think it was on SNL or Matt TV where you know you have the traditional , like you need to be straight , so and so You're going to go to the street things and you're going to do the street things and you're going to grow up there .
But it was like you're going to go to like the Taylor Swift concert , right , and like , oh my god , you have street friends , yeah , yeah .
Yeah , the duality of that . That again , i think , just calls us into our own work when we think we don't have it or we don't have to do the work , but that we do . We do have to do that for our children for ourselves And again for the broader like collectively for us to to heal .
But I think there should also be , now that I'm thinking about this and I hope maybe I should tell you this on its side , because maybe you'll trigger an idea . But maybe like now there's like a like your . Your obviously like a what like a manual for life for moms and women . Maybe there should also be like a manual for children .
There is . Okay , nick , it's coming in 2024 . How we get , how we get through teens addition .
Look at that . But it's intended for like teenagers right .
Yes , yeah . So for teens that either their parents don't want them to go to therapy , or they don't support therapy , or the teen doesn't want to go to therapy as well , because there's a whole freaking gamut . Right , like I don't want to talk to anybody , meanwhile they're having like panic attacks in the bathroom .
So like she's already thought about it , Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah Yeah , but that would be here , everyone at true visionary .
Oh , yes , exactly Yeah .
But I think again , like I think the pandemic really kind of blew up , this idea that we all need support significantly in mental health , and so it isn't and it isn't just for one person or one type of person or one gender or anything , it's literally all of us need to heal and all of us need each other to heal .
And I just been thinking about that more and more . I mean , i think we kind of niche down for women , i think from a marketing perspective , but the more that again I'm doing my own work and I think on the spiritual level is how are we , like men , women and everything in between , really working together ?
I think we've had to , like , separate ourselves because we've been othered or marginalized and we've had to band together because there's always been one thing against us And I think that's the biggest lie is sorry , i'm going into it , but like what if there was nothing against us , how much powerful would we all be and healed and I don't know ?
sorry , but I'm deep into that right now , you know I think one like one . One thing that I see very present in the gay community is and I'm not trying to throw shade and not trying to like , like shame anybody , because we all need spaces where we feel we can connect to people and we have shared experiences , right .
But I think in the gay community , one common frustration that is voiced is when straight women come into the space and like , because it's so like welcoming and because , like , there's this idea that gay men are welcoming .
Yeah , best friend .
Yeah , yeah , they like they come in and like now our space is no longer our space And I think , if there's if there's some way where people can be informed of being more mindful of their behavior when they enter these spaces .
I think that that would be and it's the same thing with , like white people that are trying to do the work and trying to become more like educated and more sensitive and compassionate towards people of color status , like white people just can't come in and be like here we are , like we're gonna like we're here to like educate ourselves .
Right , you have to be like mindful and you have to like ask yourself am I acting and behaving like a guest in somebody's home ?
Yeah , oh , i love that . Yeah Yeah . I think that's a good point in how we can connect with each other Totally , and I think my point was that we have to continue to connect to each other as we're doing our own healing spaces , but we need to ask how should we enter into these space , into these spaces ?
¶ Healing and Right Work
Right . And one thing that , like my , my mission is to like my philosophy is the more you expect other people to treat you different and expect change And the less you change within yourself . You can't like that's going to continue to create the separation right .
So there has to be like , there has to be introspection , there has to be conversation , there has to be connection within the community that's being underrepresented or disservice in order for them , for the outside community , to see oh well , they're not always at the bars , okay well , they're at the library , they're at the , whatever it is .
But I think a lot of people in my community specifically expect so much change to happen from the outside that we don't really do the work inside because we're tired of doing the work but we're not doing the right work .
Right , the main thing is to do the right work And if you're not sure how to do the right work , ask a therapist , ask somebody who is doing the right work , where you're not seeing this like harsh device of lying between them versus us .
Yeah , and I think there's a good point and I think this is what you're talking about , like being the white savior or the white woman savior of that , you know , and I don't feel that because I never .
I don't feel like I'm above other people , but I think recently I felt I've had to pair off only women And I think there's power in that collective trauma , feeling everything right for any group , but I think it was so naive to just stay there And what actual collective healing .
It's almost like again , like reaching out to hold hands to everybody , to connect these , versus me coming in and being like I'm here , you guys don't worry because I've done my work , and blah , blah , blah , like that . That's not .
It is our own internal work And I think you know , do that And then also look at other people that are doing their own internal work as well . Like that connection and that healing process because we can heal each other if it's this mutuality , not this one like savior and pathetic , you know like who . I'm not here to save you .
Right , but I think it requires , like going back to the example and kind of what you were just describing , like the example in the classroom , where everybody's like it requires , like being observant , right , it requires like , wait , you're looking confused .
You're looking confused , but we don't want to like say , hey , you look confused , like it's like the Oprah Winfrey book , what happened to you ? right , i'm not , what's wrong with you . And so , like asking yourself , like getting in the group where everybody's like , or you're like , wait , i'm feeling something .
And like , wait , you look like you're feeling something too Like , how are you feeling right now ? Like , and I was like , well , i'm not really understanding what's happening right now . And then it takes like the collective understanding , and then you have the like , the designated , like I'm the spokesperson , to come out and say , hey , we're all confused .
Can you explain to us what you mean by that ?
Yeah , yes , i love that And it brings a lot of clarity And I think it just like invites us into a lot of , a lot more work , which , again , i talked about some diverse part , but I think our generation is here to do , you know , Well , i mean , like the millennial generation , like yeah , we got screwed on a lot of things , but like what we didn't get
screwed on is the opportunity to affect change . Yeah , and break a lot of I think emotional or generational cycles collectively . You know , i'm not like , oh , i'm a , i'm just a regular therapist . Guys that started an app and a podcast .
You're a both therapist guys . She's not like a regular therapist , she's a cool person .
Oh my gosh , so good . So , yeah , oh , nick , always a pleasure . This is so fun . Again , i would Nick for anyone listening . he's gonna be a professional podcast guest because he's that good at it . So if you need a guest on your podcast , please hire Nick .
But please , if you can , for a second , tell everybody where to find you , talk to us about your practice , your website , the Unite app .
Yeah , give us a D . So my handle on Instagram for the time being is say no to kryptonite . it may change soon And obviously behind me superman . So that's my handle on Instagram . my practice I'm accepting new clients .
Like I said , i primarily work with Game Man and couples , but if you are impacted by a Game Man or a couple , i think you should do it And so , or if you want more understanding on Game Man and couples , I can help you up Or direct you to people that might be able to help you , and the Unite app . We're starting the membership community .
So basically what it is . It's initially focused on Game Man and queer men but expanding once we have kind of like the system down to other communities , lesbian , heterosexual women , that sort of thing to give people just like collectively a short connection to where we can start to really like . Once we have a basic general understanding , we can start to merge .
Yes , yeah , love it .
So that's kind of that's what I'm working on right now .
I'm excited about it If you know a Game Man or a queer man that's looking for community , that's looking for connection , that's looking for activities outside of the bars or the typical spaces where a lot of Game Man congregate , Unite mentor or Unite Plus is where you can find them , Also starting some other projects which I'm excited about .
So , yeah , Ooh , yeah So if you know a Game Man or queer man , that's just in general , that is looking for something to feel , a sense of purpose , fulfillment , understanding . Direct them to me .
Or is that for the Unite app and those communities ? Is that LA based only or in other cities ?
So the in-person . So we're trying to make it more in-person , to create more of like in-person connection , because I think we've blessed that a lot . But there'll be virtual events and we're looking at possibly in the future , if things are successful , which they would like to go on tour .
Yes .
Yes , prop up Unite events .
Oh , I love that . Let's go good So good .
¶ Healing Spaces and Talking to Kids
Nick , thank you so much for your love , your expertise in the healing spaces you continue to provide It's been so fun .
Absolutely Thank you for the opportunity . I appreciate it .
Of course All right , see ya , goodbye . Thank you for listening to our show .
We hope that this has opened more spaces for conversations for you and your kids And if you found yourself wanting more education on how to provide a safe space for your questioning kid , check out Nick's course talking to your kids about their sexuality On the how we get through app , which is available for both Android and iPhone .
Next week we are talking to licensed therapist Abby Wamba , not to be confused with Abby Wamba , the soccer player . Abby Wamba is a licensed therapist in LA and she's talking all about chronic pain and how our mental health can be a powerful tool to help us get through . We'll see you then . Thanks so much .