S1 Ep 7 Exploring LGBTQIA+ Trauma and Relationships with Nick Berry, LMFT

In this episode , we address the complexities of internalized homophobia within the LGBTQAI plus community . Our conversation with Nick highlights the significance of parents exploring their own biases to foster and create loving spaces for our children for questioning their own sexuality .

Join us as we learn how to foster connection , collective healing and a meaningful change within our families and communities . You won't want to miss it . Okay , all right . Well , welcome back to the How We Get Through podcast . Today's guest is a real fun one .

We have Nick Berry , a licensed marriage and family therapist who has a private practice in downtown LA , which is so fun .

Nick helps gay and queer men and couples navigate the challenges that come from outside and inside the gay community , And Nick is currently building beautiful community for gay and queer men through another mental health app called Unite Plus , So we're so excited to have you here .

And I said , well , i made gay man who loves women , who has just grown up around women And also I think gay men and women just have a natural connection right .

And there are things that I've worked with women , obviously , and so I think we had kind of like chatted and this , the course that I created , was something I was like and I think , was it you or me ? that kind of like suggested this , like talking to our kids about . I can't remember Or was it like a brilliant mind Collector .

And it's interesting , as you're saying this , because I've you know , that was like a year ago that we talked about that And like in these last few weeks I'm like interestingly talking , we're like separating women and we're separating men , And then we have gender in the middle of that And that's a spectrum .

But what I'm hearing you say , when , when gay men and women have this connection , it kind of reminds me of like the body is made up of male and female energy , right , And so when we can actually come together with male and female , like that's when we're the most powerful , right , That's when we're the most whole .

I'm sorry I took this away a different direction , But I just feel it in my bones of like you know , why wouldn't you be a healing space for women ?

If we didn't and I think you and I just like doing the work that we've done , like knowing what we know , i think we do understand the significance and the importance of having that mind , body , spiritual connection right , that's like the spiritual connection And so , yeah , to not even take that into account , i think would really do people a disservice .

to know , like , more about you , like how did Nikki be become the therapist that he is living in downtown LA ? like , take us back . How did you get called into this , this space ?

So My life could be like described as Putting a Lego set together , so busy behind , like I think looking at Having an instruction manual as to what life is supposed to be According to who's making the life , who's like describing what the life is supposed to look like and then putting it together And like this , back here in this van , go a Lego set should be

like forever to put together . I mean , like it took some time off and then I started putting it together and I was like this is gonna be a great mindfulness Like I never great . There were three or four times where I was like why am I missing a row ? like what is happening here ?

And so getting really frustrated and then really checking in with myself and saying why am I not just being very present , right ? And I think , looking at my life up to , kind of leading up to where I am now , i think I was trying to follow Like this instruction manual based on what I thought it was supposed

to be . So I grew up , you know , in a very heteronormative and I know some people , like you know , they look at that word and they're like ooh , heteronormative .

But I think , when we look at the majority of of the like How life goes , like it's a very heteronormative process , right , and so , you know , being very like understanding of like everybody and like growing up in a very like small Latino town or not seem to say no , i think that it did expose me to other cultures and other reason of life , and then I won't

I , you know , get their life . I go , i moved to Long Beach and I'm like this is where I'm gonna come out and be my authentic self , and so You know , i've been in a couple relationships before that and I moved to Long Beach and Just like being like hit with the reality of what the gay world and culture is , i was like why am I so judgmental ?

What is happening ? Like , why am I feeling this way ? And so I think this is like Like being really confronted with this , like this cognitive dissonance of this is what I know and what I've been told , and that's like basic human values respect people . You get respect back .

But then , like , why am I experiencing this judgment and this , like these , like negative internal processes ? And so the idea of like internalized homophobia really I think Hit me and I think homophobia in such an implicit way because it wasn't really like growing up I didn't really like here , like gay people are bad , because there just weren't gay people around .

So really , you know , you heard about them . There were a couple people in high school that you would like You would , you would know they were gay , but nobody really talked about it and everybody would just knew each other . So there wasn't a need to like Discriminate or like it was just what it was .

And so I think having that moment of like wow , this is , this is what internalized homophobia is was so daunting . And I think , moving to LA from Long Beach another experience where it's like LA being so isolating and so kind of like leaving people with this feeling of loneliness .

And you go to LA like with this like Aspiration of like , whatever I'm gonna do here in LA , i'm gonna be successful . And like You know , i've been told or I like experience being like the big fish in the little pond kind of type thing . And so I moved to LA .

And Again , another like reality check of like , oh , even though you're from California , you're from Southern California , you know people that live in Los Angeles Like why are people not like we're talking about hanging out tomorrow night But like why are people flaking ? why are people saying , oh , i can't make it , why are people just ghosting you ?

I think that you just like go through life with these like Shh , it's like hard reality checks where I Think , if you don't have the support To really kind of go through those moments where you're really kind of going against the norm , you really are put in this place of like feeling lonely and resorting to like Things that help you get through those moments ,

like substance use and like hanging out with the wrong people and doing those sort of things that You like come out of that and you're like , okay , cool , i came out of it .

And then you're still confronted with all of these , like these , these psych , like psychological dilemmas , and so for me it's been a lot of trauma work , it's been a lot of therapy , it's been a lot of just like taking time off moving , being confronted with like Stillness , and I think that stillness has been what I've like ran from my entire life , and my mom

always tells me she's like you could never sit still , like you always been like wanting to be out of the house , even when I was little . Apparently I would like run out of the house naked down the street and And that like never being able to just be present and I think finally , the end of last year , a Lot of things just like settle .

My intentionally was single . I did not move for the first time after a year and like five years and You know , the pandemic stuff hit me .

It was like the perfect storm this last year where I think I had to go through all of that stuff to really Get to the place where I'm now , and the place where I'm now is so magical , like people I have in my life I really respect and value .

Great things are happening with my career and I think I'm just really for the first time in my life , at 41 years old , really just like wow , like I know exactly who I am and what I want , don't want what I expect out of people and don't expect Other people , right . So I think that's kind of like a description of my journey .

And then , like , life happens , and then you're like , for whatever reason you're , you're there present and you're not focused on like the like the 3000 hours concept or things are happening . And then you look back and you're like what , like I should be doing my , like Trek your hours now .

And then it's like , oh , i am way past my hours and I think that There's like this , like , oh , there's this expectation of like you finish your hours and everything is so fantastic , you get license and all just makes sense , but it's like not until later , after like you really stop and reflect on like your progress and where you're at And how far you come .

But that click really is more significant and money , mental .

Right , and I think what the parallel is like this chasing , like I will feel happy when I will feel settled , when I will feel accepted , when and it's such an internal process Obviously external is a big factor , but I just would love for you to talk about , like , how has that journey been for you , or how are you seeing it with your clients or your community

, and what does that look like ?

And so for me , the process looked like cool , i'm going to be in a relationship And like my first relationship was significant because that was my very first relationship I had been in , that I hadn't come out yet , and so , as my first gay relationship also , and so there were like coming from like this like model that I was exposed , that I was like trained

in on how to be in a relationship . You like stay in a relationship , you stay in a relationship , you make it work , make it work , make it work , make it work . And it's only when something really really like horrible happens , really catastrophic , where it makes sense to walk away from the relationship .

But that's when it's okay to leave , right , and I think that I see that a lot in my clients , whether they're gay or straight , is I ask my clients why you know you're in this relationship , you keep going back to it And we explore their relationship history , looking at their first model of what a relationship was .

And they knew there was conflict , they knew that there was tension , they knew there was betrayal in the relationship between their parents because it's so permeable , right , we're so like my parents , like , would fight all the time . So I knew that there was conflict . So I was modeled . Even though there's conflict , we rise above and we stay in the relationship .

And it was never modeled to us . Yeah , it was never modeled to us like , hey , this is not working for me And how to have , like , a healthy separation from that person , right , and so going through that relationship . That's what I , that's what I was modeled , so that's what I practiced .

And also on top of that , like you know , things within the relationship happened And I'm grateful for those things that happened in a relationship , because everything that I looked at , i everything now that I kind of have experienced where I have been , i've experienced where I have perceived it as , like this , like detrimental or horrible thing .

Actually , i'm seeing like there's so many like instances where , like there's parallels with me and my clients And I feel as as like wounded healers , like if you're able to get through those experiences , you're able to help people that aren't able to get through those experiences .

And just having those , those exposure to those situations , i think makes us those people that we can like model that behavior .

And so what I saw , like I got the relationship and then I moved to Long Beach And so in my mind , given what I was exposed to about the gay world in that relationship , just by being in that relationship and a relationship , after that was cool .

Everybody talks about going to , like , long Beach , or everybody talks about going to West Hollywood , or everybody talks about going to San Francisco , and so that's where you go and you become you . That's where you go and you become this individual . And so you get there .

You're like , cool , there's going to be bars , but I'm going to have a group of friends like on Queer Eye , like on the L Word , like on all these things , and like , you get there And , yeah , you make friends . But because there's such collective trauma within the community , like we're bonding on like trauma , we're bonding on like rejection , we're bonding .

And so all of that happens in the bars , because gay bars are where people can congregate of similar orientations and really feel like , wow , these people get me , but they're getting us because we've been there . We haven't healed . We're not getting each other because we've healed .

We're getting each other because , oh yeah , these straights , they're walking into our bars , like all of that . And so , like we like bond on this , like for neighbor on says this counterfeit connection , right Where we are . We're bonding on the gossip .

We're bonding on like the shared traumas and nobody's really getting to the fact that we're human beings that have experienced a lot of rejection and abandonment , and let's talk about the feelings that are associated with that . Not man , i'm really angry , okay , i'm really frustrated .

So-and-so like cheated on our boyfriend , like , but like it's just like these like things that like nobody really gets to the bottom of why so-and-so cheated on their boy Or why so-and-so like inserted themselves into a relationship and they snatched the partner away , right , and so like , just like you get to that place where you get to this life that is like the

mecca of , or the gold standard of . If you have this life and you've achieved this job , if you've achieved this apartment style , if you've achieved this relationship style monogamy versus non-monogamy it's like then you have made it , you have arrived into what it's like to be gay . And you get there and you're like what the hell is this Like ? what is this ?

And so for people that are a little bit more involved and have done some work on themselves , they get there and it's like so overwhelming , just like the unhealed , like lifestyle of people that you isolate and you pull away .

Or because you're isolating , you're like , well , i need friends , so I'm going to go participate , and then you get wrapped up into like the drinking or the drug use or the sexual , the over sexualization , that now it's like well , this is well . So if this is what life is supposed to be , am I supposed to be miserable for the rest of my life ?

Like , and so it can be very lonely , but then you find your people that have done the work , or you get through that loneliness and you're really confronted with , wow , like I'm lonely and this is what it feels like , and I've been numbing this with people with relationships , with alcohol , with drugs , sex , anything like that .

But I haven't really sat with this and really like been intimate with my loneliness and been intimate with that like despair and really being confronted with like , oh , let me do some work on myself .

Oh , i didn't realize that that was what was happening And that's why I'm doing what I'm doing And like really like looking at things that you're repressed and suppressed and any issues with like parents , that there's like any sort of parent rejection , like whether it's because the parent just wasn't able to be around for whatever reason , or they were rejected because

of who they were , what sexual orientation they were .

It's like now we're confronted with that and it can be very overwhelming and can be very can lead a lot of people to like want to just run from it and go back to what they're doing . Because I can numb myself with alcohol , i can numb myself with relationships , but what's going to numb me from like this ?

But it was just interesting how I can I connect to that loneliness , that otherness , or feeling like you're supposed to be doing something but you're like dead inside And then just attaching to other people , like this person's gonna make me happy or I need this relationship to be happy .

But I love that you just framed it in the gay community , how big of a problem it is inside . But that the external and this is I guess the question , which I am assuming the external part of how they got there is what we're responsible for .

And I think yeah , I think society is responsible for that , like rejection and abandonment that people feel , and I think that a lot of that is because it's just it's just the unwillingness or inability to educate oneself , and I think what we're seeing all over the place not just in America , but- .

So there's like that personal attachment to it , but we still have , like , the freedom to be who we are for the most part , right . And so there's like , yeah , true , we're affected by it , but we aren't even experiencing or what those that are experiencing in Kentucky or Tennessee or Florida are going through .

And so , if you know , we have the freedom to fill a certain way , we have the freedom to- .

Oh , but I can't feel that way because if I feel that way , some really bad things are going to happen , right , and so it's just really , you know , frustrating that every election cycle we are continuing to like be so focused and be held in this state of like emotional hostage or emotional terrorism , because , like , we aren't sure when the next bill is going to

get introduced And we aren't sure when the family member that supports us then later tells us that they voted for so and so is really going to be what's the case . So we're in this constantly suspension of wondering and what if ? and scarcity , because what we have might be taken away .

So I think , when you look at that , you know you no wonder why there's so much like substance abuse and so much like hyper sexualization in communities , because , like , we're trying to like make the most of it before it gets taken away .

And I think , looking at you know a lot of like the bills and stuff like that that have been passed or now being kind of like overturned because they're being unconstitutional .

And I think that we're really seeing like that , like that extinction burst period where , like little kids , when they're like , give me the sucker , give me the sucker , give me the sucker , and they get louder and louder and louder , like .

I think we're seeing that right now because people are just like , not that they're ignoring it , but they're like we're not believing what you say anymore , we're not . There's so many of us and so many of us , i think , are being just like out there .

The myths of what the LGBTQIA community have been are being dispelled , and I think , the more that you know because we are like .

I did a panel on Wednesday with like queer visibility And one of the questions was are you , do you feel that queers are gonna be looked to more in the future as sources of influence and inspiration for just society in general , how it operates and how it structured ?

And I think that my response was yes , we are going to be , because we've had to like deal with the bullshit , we've had to like be hired to be the interior decorators and we've had to be the best supportive friend that like all of our friends enlist to like support us , and so I think that's a like , really like .

Diminish and dismiss the contributions of people of my community have contributed to society , i think would be ridiculous . I think a lot of it is based in fear , right , and so I think the more that we're seeing a lot of these people being overturned . I just saw the governor of New York , literally before this , had appointed the first transgender male judge .

So cool And they think there is more of like an acceptance , and I think that we're seeing a lot of like smoking mirrors right Where we're not really buying into anymore , because I think a lot , of , a lot more people are being exposed to material , to information , and I think that's why there's a lot of attempts to minimize exposure to like social media , because

a lot of younger people are no longer subscribing to this because what they've experienced because there's so much of it now We can't be ignored is like wait a second , my key friends aren't like that , like my key friends are actually really awesome people who really care about people who really just want to be left alone and would leave you alone , like so I

think

there's a lot of that . It's like we're like we're just trying , like , i think , for transgender individuals specifically like drug claims , like they're just trying to exist . They're not inflicting anything on anybody else .

But I think there's such like this , like stoking of the fires , that people get scared and like when , when a society is built on scarcity and scare culture , a lot of influence can happen .

to like just unravel , unearth so many things , and so what I , i think , when I feel like really sad about everything , i look to them and I'm just like so proud and you know , I mean there's so many things that I think we can get bogged down of like I can't do anything .

Again , a similar vein , i think , was women's rights and abortion and how scary that felt , still feels . Again , it's different , but I'm just trying to draw that similar vein of not feeling in control or having a fear based law made around something that can is actually really helpful or beneficial .

Like you know , we just like pulled it out and we're like , well , this was wrong with it And we're like what ? It just doesn't make sense . It doesn't make sense either of them , you know , but I would love to know , like your perspective of the younger generation , i think even like sexuality so fluid with them , like they are , just like I don't give a fuck .

This is what I'm doing And it's just like it's so admirable to me .

So they're seeing like the dissonance , right , what ? And so I think that Gen Z is just like they're seeing the mess , right . They're seeing the like the baby boomer myth of like cool , you buy a house , you get married , you have a job , you have benefits , you have retirement , you have kids , you pass it down . That's like a good dream , right .

And so it was funny , i was hilarious . We had gone to lunch my mom and my stepdad and my me and her , and so she needed to get a to-go container And she walks up and I think that you really see , like just the expectations of Gen Z , what they expect of the rule that's not returned She goes to get .

And I go well , did you ask for something to print ? She's like no , but they should know . It's like I think there's like it's like when it goes far to the other side . Right , There's not this like nurturing down into the middle that is required for like change to really take place .

It's like ushering them into that maturity And I think the selflessness of it that you just get with age , you know , but I think , with their fire around these problems , and how it's like cool to care about the earth , you know , like that can really be so beautiful in the future as they're shaped outside of their own ego into actual reality of what it means

to care for the earth .

Wait , no , you should be doing that for me . Why are you not like acknowledging me when I let you go Like through the stop sign first ?

Like there's like , but I think , like you're right , it's like the like we have to stop and say , okay , like whether it's because of traditional values that are really great values where you respect one another , we're not really instilled with .

There are gonna be people that are shitty And I think one thing that I've seen with clients is like in myself even is that when we're , when we're infants , up through childhood , you're the smartest person in the world . Okay , And then we get to like fourth grade and we're the smartest person in the world .

because kindergarten and preschool , first grade , all those years people , like teachers , are like you're so smart , you're the smartest , And so grades don't matter .

And so you get to like , when peer influence starts to pop in , and then you are sitting next to your best friend , who you've loved your whole life , eight years of your whole life , like you're going and they're like wait a second , you got an E plus , wait a second , I got an E minus . That's , I'm the smartest one .

And so you had this really internal dilemma and conflict because you're not supposed to be the smartest . And now there's this like why are you not what I think you're supposed to be , even though we've loved each other for so long ?

now , what I'm being presented with , the reality of what I'm presented with , conflicts with that and I don't know how to deal with that . And human beings do not know how to deal with internal conflict at all .

There's no time to like prepare for it and process it and educate oneself , so , like anyone does , it's normal to just like react right , and if you've never been through that situation before or you're seeing everything that's going on in the world , all of that just comes out to you And it's like you know , i don't blame people for having the reactions that they

do , but hopefully with this course it helps people to start having that communication and that language , to be able to internally introspect and have that conversation with themselves and then have that conversation with other people , so that we can start like expanding that And having Ailing the world . Yeah , exactly .

We hope that this has helped either start a process for you in your own journey or give you more support for others that are going through it .

If you found yourself wanting more education on how to provide a safe space for your questioning kid , check out Nick's course talking to your kids about their sexuality on the How We Get Through app , which is available for both Android and iPhone .

Stay tuned for part two of next week's episode , where we talk about the generational differences in acceptance and sexuality and how we can all come together . Thanks again .