¶ Cyclical Nature of Emotions and Grief
good .
Hello and welcome back to the how we Get Through podcast . This is a special episode . Today I am with Jess Hooper , who is the owner of Creative Current , and she is an artist and a yogi and we're so excited to have her on . And she also dabbles in a little bit of woo , like myself , correct ? Correct , correct , woo dabbler , woo dabbler .
I'm curious of the woo . Jess is formerly from New Jersey , a Jersey girl which I used to go every summer , so I love that , and now she resides in South Carolina , correct ?
I got it right . You did it .
Jess , thank you so much for being here . This is so exciting . We met through a mutual friend , Leslie , who's also on the how we Get Through app , and just kind of became fast friends in life , business , motherhood and all the things . So excited to have you here .
I am so excited to be here and honored . Thank you .
Yeah , okay , so we start off every episode Everyone knows this by now but with a mental health myth , and we would love to know yours .
Yeah . So I think the mental health myth that I'd love to bust is the concept that I've seen portrayed in movies and TV shows that grief is this beautiful , linear thing that comes in these perfect stages of sadness , anger , denial , acceptance , whatever it may be . But I just think that that's so far from the truth . It can go all over the place .
It's completely chaotic . The most accurate connection to me was something one of my friends told me when my mom passed was that grief is like an ocean and like that it hit me in the gut right For a lot of different reasons . Because , number one , my mom was obsessed with the ocean .
Oh , she's about like every waking moment she could there , even when she was sick she would walk there , collect sea glass . But when you really like get into it and you look at all the different analogies of grief and different , you know phases of the ocean and versions of the ocean .
They are so interconnected , like just looking at how it could be frozen , right when you're going through grief and you lose somebody , you could be completely numb from it . Or it can be totally connected with like a swell , right , you know , like waves that come and they're smaller , smaller here's a big one . Here it comes and you should like predict it .
Or it can like bubble up out of nowhere and you're like at the grocery store and some song comes on and you're like sobbing next to a stranger , looking like a crazy person , and so many other different ways that that can . Really you know a lot of different connections that I found with the ocean and the way that I was feeling .
So when my friend Kathy said that to me , I kind of turned it into an art prompt and then , yeah , I used it as a five minute meditation each day where I would try to check in . I would complete a watercolor of what was resonating with me that day .
You know , was it the tsunami coming for me in this giant wave about to crash , or am I , you know , feeling a little burst , or am I like actually calm ? And then there's even the other side of it where you know the ocean's beautiful .
Right , it's absolutely gorgeous , and something that's come up recently through following a lot of different grief pages and things like that , is that like , grief is beautiful and at first you're like uh-uh , yeah .
Yeah , no , thank you , this is not beautiful .
This is very uncomfortable and I don't want to be here anymore . But the saying that came behind that was that in order for you to hurt so badly , you must have loved so deeply . So that is , you know the other side of it .
And then there's like these little glimmers right , like little reflections of the sun off of the ocean surface , and I was like when my kid tilts her head to the left , there's a smile . I was like there's my mom , yeah , yeah . So it's like you know . Anyway , back to the myth . It is not linear , it is not perfect .
You don't just like upswing and then everything's fine . It can be any version of the storm any day .
Yeah , it's interesting too , as you make that analogy , I think of the moon and the sun and the tides , and there's something cyclical with that as well , and I'm just wondering , like , what your thoughts on that ? I think of like seasons or holidays or birthdays or anniversaries , something cyclical in that nature .
Like that's my that connection , but I'm wondering what you make of that .
Yeah , no , you're like right on point with kind of where I am right now , because we're coming up on the holiday season and finding new triggers . Yeah , like on a memories surface , and things will come up that way and it can help you kind of an anticipation of these things . I feel like , all right , this is coming up .
What can I do to kind of prepare myself for that ? Because I know that this is going to be a trigger and I know that this is going to be hard . And right now actually this weekend was it's one year since the last time she came to visit me .
It's been an entire year since she's been in my home and I'm starting to notice the cyclical nature of things and I'm starting to kind of you feel it . You just feel it like in your energy and it almost like welcomes it back . Right , okay , last time she was here it was a year ago . Now I can almost like kind of revisit that presence .
Yeah , because my surroundings are exactly the same , my home is the same , the trees look the same outside . We do get the change of color and leaves in South Carolina .
Yes , what's that like ?
What's that ? Yeah , we wouldn't have that anymore , but we get like the best of everything here . But anyway yeah , like the surroundings are the same , so you can kind of like lean into it instead of like running from it .
Yeah , I'm like Teri , as you're saying that , and I haven't lost a parent yet , and but I there's like something kind of really warm in it too . It's like it's both and right , but it almost like invites itself back in in some way .
Again in that cyclical nature of like timing , Like when you say you like felt it in your bones or I can't remember exactly what you said , but that like an energy that you're so attuned to . It's like this welcoming back of the sadness , but also the joy and whatever that looks like .
Totally . And that like takes me to . You know what you just said , my I believe strongly in mantras or visualization , breath work , all that fun stuff . But the mantra bot really helped me through the , you know , lengthy anticipatory grief period , as well as a post-loss grief period , is that joy and grief can coexist .
It's so confusing to be experiencing that Right Like in the same breath I can be lasting at something my kids doing and at the same time feel crushed and start crying because my mom's not going to witness that or that they're not going to have the same type of interaction with her .
So it took a long time for me to accept that that joy and grief can coexist . And it's so hard to communicate it . You're first going through it . You're like I don't understand what's happening and I'd say to my husband I'm like I'm so sad but I'm like happy in this moment , like I like what's happening right now but like I'm devastated .
Right yeah .
It's just so hard to understand what you're feeling when it's upside down . Yeah , totally .
I would love for you to walk us through your journey , if that's okay , in regards to your mom and the move where you have a baby . Like what Everything ?
What happened ? Yeah , so I call the fall of 21 . Like the catalyst of change I just had , so many major life changes happen pretty much all at once . So my mom was diagnosed with cancer in September that year and I knew it was going to be good , just based on the type of cancer that she had , and I was eight months pregnant when she was diagnosed .
So , wow , two months later I give birth to this beautiful giant baby who has been I kind of call her my security blanket . She was like my service animals people have , but she was like my snuggle buddy through this whole thing . So she was perfect and healthy and still the happiest kid ever .
How much did she weigh ?
She was nine-four . Nothing crazy , but not tiny .
My last was 10-11 . So , but it's a boy and C-section sunroofed out , so it spared me a little but not very much .
Well , on the very same day that she was born , actually , my father-in-law suffered an accident and had a life-changing injury that day what was it ? And then he fell and injured his neck and that kind of changed a lot of things for him . So he was going through that . My husband was kind of , you know , secondhand going through that .
My mother was going through , she was going through , I had this brand new baby and you have another I also have another- . Yes , yeah , my other daughter was four and a half at the time , there's more . So then after that , two weeks later , my husband was offered a job in South Carolina .
We were all living in New Jersey Family Loading New Jersey still pretty much does . We're kind of pulling them down like one group at a time , though we're getting done here . So he was offered a job down here . A few days later my grandfather passed away . Wow . So it was just like everything all at once .
And then in January , you know we pulled the trigger and we just moved down to South Carolina . So grappling with making that decision was just like insane and like postpartum hormones the recent diagnosis of my mom trying to figure out , you know , do I stay , do I go ? But my husband was just amazing through the whole thing .
Like you don't want to go , we're not going . You know I'm not going to harbor any resentment . Like you have to do what you think is best here . So it was a really hard decision . I think it was like the second hardest decision I ever made , but ultimately a great decision . We love it here , yeah .
Never been to .
Bluff and South Carolina . It's down here , it's freaking gorgeous .
I know I gotta go . It's like magic .
Yeah , yeah . So anyway , we moved down here . We didn't know a single person that was getting used to having two kids instead of one , with , like , no support system around and the uncertainty with my mom and her condition . So , you know , fortunately , shortly after we got here , they thought they got it , they thought they had removed all of her cancer .
She really thought that she was going to beat this thing and I think at that point we all kind of like , you know , took a breath . You know , nothing was showing up on the scans but she still showed some counts . Some of her blood counts were still showing numbers , not zero . So we knew something was still lingering . We weren't super , super worried anymore .
And then they waited a few months to do scans , when they thought that it was clear . And then it came back that it was in her liver and then it was in her lymph nodes and it had spread pretty quickly in that time without treatment . Wow . And then she wasn't responsive to chemo after that .
So I think what really kicked in for me when I heard it was back was the anticipatory grief , like that is , when I fully was just like succumbed to that . And if you don't know what that is or that hopefully means you've never experienced it and I hope you never do .
But that is the you know period of time where you know someone you love is going to pass .
You have no idea how long you have left with them and you're also trying to like do normal day to day things with that just like hanging right here and just never leaving your side , you know , trying to make normal decisions , trying to navigate motherhood , while you're , you know , inside , just falling apart .
So that's when that really , really hit me , and that's actually the first time in my life I sought out therapy and was one of the best decisions I think I've ever made .
I don't honestly know how I probably would have made it through it without her support and her expertise through the whole process and she I took me one of the finer I won and she's just the best , the best .
Was she a grief ?
specialist , so get this . She specialized in moms and that's kind of why . I saw her out and I didn't know until our first session that her background was in grief counseling and she had worked in like oncology centers . So it was like perfect .
You know , there's the woo , there's the body . There it is . Yeah , you're lying to me .
Wow , and I just I loved her . It's like weird . I was like missing her on like because I don't have session .
I'm like yes .
Yes , I didn't know that it could be that way . I thought it was just going to be like all pain and , like you know , contact things up like that . But anyway , she was and still is helping me every step of the way . So she helped me figure out a lot of the things that I was missing .
You know I was having Intensipatory grief makes you so anxious You're waiting every moment for the other shoe to drop . You're waiting for that phone call with the bad news constantly . You know I was having anxiety attacks all the time . I was raging mom , which is not not my character .
I mean , he's like a super peaceful person but like I was flipping out all the time on my kids just because I was so hyper sensitive and overreactive to everything . Well , you felt . I control Totally Because you have no control over any of it , right , you just like you don't know when it's going to happen and you don't know how long you have .
¶ Finding Grounding and Centering in Grief
So during that period I knew that I needed to figure something out . I couldn't keep being that way . So what was huge for me was just getting grounded , like that was what was missing .
You know I wasn't going to be able to change the overall emotions that were going on , like the sadness , the worrying , the everything else that goes along with it , but I can at least center my body and the physical experience that I was having . You know I'll I'll end up doing a ton of breath work and that helps me everywhere .
That's why I love breath work , like I could be talking to you and like still doing it , or like you know wherever I am .
I can just like you know what .
Just just coming back to your breath awareness , it doesn't always have to be like this formal you know sitting and you know setting out the whole time , or like you know counting breath work , which I love but it can just be something as simple as acknowledging the inhale and appreciating the exhale , like as you're talking to somebody , and that just helps just get
grounded , get centered and just be aware of the present moment .
I would love everyone to do that right now . Yeah , you're listening to that Totally .
Notice wherever you are Exactly . Just if you're driving , keep your eyes open , yes . Yes . If you're hanging out , just take a minute , just close your eyes and just feel the way that the breath feels on the top of your lip , entering into your nostrils , and then sigh it all out .
Just let it out or breathe it out through your nose and feel it cascading over your lips . Just be aware of the breath coming in and the breath coming out . It's just a great way to get centered , no matter where you are and what you're doing .
I love that because I think when you said that I was a what you can do , that right now which makes so much sense , but I think there's so much like breath , work , mindfulness . There's 10 minutes out of your day in a quiet space .
There's so many barriers that I think we've put around grounding and what it should look like and how it should feel , that we forget we have the essence in us every second of the day , totally , especially because , moms , we've got kids crawling up us .
How are we supposed to find a quiet corner ? Zero quiet corners for us . No quiet corners , quiet corners . And you're hiding in the bathtub with the curtain , john , covering my ears like that's the best I can do Exactly , yeah . So , yeah , getting grounded , whatever that looks like for you .
Maybe you do have a quiet corner and you can find it and you can hang out there and you can get centered that way and you can do some box breathing . Four counts in , four count hold , four count , exhale , four count , hold that's huge for me . That's like when I'm about to have a panic attack or anxiety attack .
I'd have to find that quiet space and do that and that'll help me get centered .
But yeah , just something as simple as that when you talk about having a panic attack , do you feel like those still sneak up on you where you are in your stage of grief , or where does that land for you ?
At this point I don't . I do think that grief sneaks up on me , but not the overwhelming heartbeat racing , can't catch my breath , can't see strength , kind of things . That hasn't happened since the anticipatory period .
It hasn't happened since her loss , because I think so much of that was in the lack of control and so much of the uncertainty and all the unknowns that came along with it and the distance . I was down here .
My mom was in New Jersey so I last saw her not the last I saw her , but I had seen her in January , the end of January last year , first week of February . She was okay enough to be up and about . Still .
She had one day where she couldn't leave the couch because she was in so much pain , but the rest of it she was with it , enough to have a conversation and interact with the kids . Then , from January , that first week of February , until mid-March , things just spiraled so quickly and it was impossible to know when do I go out there ?
like , do I go out there ?
tomorrow . And then there was always something . But my family , they're taking care of her . I will never understand their experience . I didn't see it firsthand and I can't ever express it in how much I appreciate all they did . They dedicated their lives to making her comfortable . We never knew when it was serious enough . We never knew how bad is it really .
She never wanted to know her preferences , so we knew no way . Oh wow , we didn't know how long she had . She didn't want to know how bad it was . She didn't want to know the numbers which made it so hard . And I can't say that I blame her for that . You don't know how you would really react to it , unless you're in it For somebody on the outside .
She had filed up cancer which is very similar to pancreatic cancer and my experience with that was only through my husband's family members . He had to pass from that very rapidly . It was very quick .
From her diagnosis I was kind of like this is not going to be good , but she and I have to give her so much credit for it , like she fought to the bitter end and she never gave up her faith or her hope . But anyway she just she didn't want to know how bad it really was when it was really bad . So that's so hard for you .
Daging , when to go up there was really difficult . It was always like , well , she's got a doctor's appointment , you know , in 10 days , so let's see what the results are from that and then decide whether to come up .
So I made it up there by mid-April and at that point she was with us physically but she was on you know so many pain medicines and everything . That time for meaningful conversation had passed , right , I kind of like missed , missed my window . I didn't go up there as soon as I wanted , so there was a lot of angst and regret there .
So that was a lot to unpack , yeah . But yeah , you know , finding my ways of getting grounded through that , finding different things to lean on through it . You know my mantra is a joy and grief can coexist . Visualization , the other part , you know that was good too , just trying to .
You know , if you do find that quiet moment , like what do I want to call in , like how , how , what is the best version of me look like today ? You know I don't need to worry about what the best version of me 10 years looks like because I'm just , I'm just trying to get through it and that's really all you can do in those circumstances .
And you know , find your things to lean on , find your people to lean on .
¶ Grief, Family, and Holiday Planning
Yeah , Was your mom okay with you moving and was like absolutely , or was that like was ?
that , like great , great question Under any I was , I was so scared to tell her .
So , scared .
So , if I can just elaborate on that a little more , my husband was off with a job in South Carolina right , and then my grandfather passed a few days later he was scheduled to her her stepdad , yeah , who was , you know , very , very prominent in our lives .
Yeah , and the day that he was scheduled to be in South Carolina happened to overlap with the day of the funeral . So my husband , you know , he was like what do you want me to do ? I was like go like you're not going to get this . You know you might not get this chance to get . I was like make up some crazy lie for why he wasn't having a good time .
Oh , because no one . Because I didn't want to tell her unless we were actually going to do it .
Right .
I didn't want to alarm her because she had enough to worry about and you know that I told her she was exactly like she was torn , she was so split . You know she was devastated that we were going but she was so happy for us you know for what the movement for us and for our family and how it was going to change her futures and all that fun stuff .
But I could also tell that she was devastated that we were going to be away from her especially . You know in circumstances With the new baby ? Yeah , with the new baby and her . Yeah it was definitely hard , definitely hard . I mean my dad , thank God for my dad . I told him right , I was like listen , this is what's going on .
I can't tell her , yeah , yeah , right . And he was like listen , don't tell her until you're sure . He's like just you know , no , tell her , tell everyone , you're certain . So I always felt like I had his support a hundred percent , you know , through every aspect of it , yeah , yeah , and do you have siblings as well ?
I do .
I'm smack down the middle yeah . Got older sister and younger sister .
And they lived within a mile . Yeah , a mile for my mom , Okay .
Everybody was right there yeah .
Yeah , and so we talk . I mean obviously . I think another layer of grief in families too is that everybody deals with it differently .
Oh my God , yes , yeah , so differently . Yeah , being you know geographically like grief can be so isolating and so lonely because nobody has the vaccine experience Like , yes , my sisters also lost their mom , but their experience was totally different .
You know , my older sister was there taking care of her , you know , witnessing and like worrying that she was going to stop breathing , every day and where . And then my little sister is finishing up school and college , so like she's kind of trying to figure out how do you mentally do that and also worry about your mother ? And when my dad , it's his partner .
You know they met in high school , they were always together , like that his experience is totally different . He gives everything to you know , to her , to keeping her comfortable until her very last breath . So it can feel really isolating because you're like nobody truly understands how . I feel and I can't even figure out the right words to convey that Right .
Yeah , especially in the waves , because it might hit you at different times ? Oh , totally , it's going to feel different . Or anniversaries , or holidays are going to feel different .
Yeah , yeah , and , like you know , the holidays are creeping up and not making it .
Is this your first or second holiday with her . I can't get the time right now . That's okay .
No , she passed this past May , yeah , so it's your first holiday .
Yeah , this May First holiday season . Oh , yeah , okay yeah .
Yeah , so I mean , your timing was always interesting , so she passed on , you know , my sister's wedding anniversary and then my daughter turned six a few days later , and then Mother's Day was two days after that , so that was my first like holiday , you know . And of course it's Mother's Day , right ? And why would it be any ?
Other holiday yes , right and then my birthday was like two days after that . So like , yeah , it's just crazy . So I'm going into this holiday season lining up my tools , yeah , that's what I'm really leaning into , like , what am I going to use to get grounded ? What am I going to use to re-center myself ?
Where am I going to say no , that's the other big thing . Like I am coming into you know . You know everybody's having holidays in different places and different traditions and I'm really giving myself the grace this year that if I'm just physically and energetically like that doesn't feel like I will be okay . No , I'm not going to do it .
I'm just not going to do it . I'm going to do the mechs that I can for my kids .
Yeah .
I can have a magical Christmas .
you know holiday season , but aside from that , I'm taking it easy yeah , yeah , which means like maybe not going back to Jersey . Is that the vibe ?
It does Okay . Yeah , it does , yeah . And you know I'm grappling with that , so too Ready . You know my whole family's out there , but I've taken four trips to New Jersey in the past year . You know especially like surrounding the time when she passed . You know back and forth and back and forth and lugging my kids . You know the whole time too .
You know it's a 12 hour drive . It's not well , wow , worse , but it's still 12 hours .
No , that's a lot . No , that's a lot . Yes .
Yes , yeah , and I've done it by myself a couple of times too . So it's a little crazy and I really like sat with that and really had a hard time making the decision and I just feel like it will be harder to go there in every way . Right , it'll be harder to be in her home without her , to see my family without her , and also logistics , right .
So you know I'm holding with kids for the holidays is a pain in the ass .
Yes , it is a energy drainer , absolutely .
Yeah , so , yeah , I bet . So I think it's important to kind of know where your limits are and I .
¶ Navigating Grief and Anticipation Through Creativity
It's funny that you know we're talking about it now , but I've been talking about the holidays with my therapist for two months . Yeah , two months ago I'm like I am dreading this already because I know that I'm not going to be awesome , you know .
I'm going to pretend and I'm going to try , and I'm going to put that fake smile on for everybody else that inside I'm just not going to go to bed .
Yeah , yeah . And so how much , though , are you actually processing now and can also , I think , be open to a different experience as it comes ? Do you know what I mean ?
I mean , I've had other things in my life where it's like I'm already grieving something that has not happened yet , and so there's room and space for me when that day comes that I don't know how I'm going to feel , right , and then there's space around . Can I just like notice that , instead of trying to predict that it's going to be X , y and Z ?
Yes , yes , so that's something again . I worked with my therapist in the anticipation period before her passing and basically what we boiled down to was I you know , I was always before my mom passed . Nobody really knew what she wanted . Nobody had that conversation as far as I know , like with funeral .
And just like in general , you know when you want to have .
Did she seem avoidant of kind of all the things then ?
A little bit , a little bit . I think she really wanted to hold on , to hope and you know , I see , and then honestly she progressed so rapidly when it took over .
I think that she just didn't have a chance at that point mentally to sit with it because of , physically , where she was at and saw the thoughts of everything , so I think it kind of crept up , I guess would be the better way for it . So I wanted to have that conversation . I wanted to be like almost like hey , this isn't looking good .
Is there anything you want to tell me ? Is there anything you want to say to me or , like my kids , or anything you want anybody to know specifically , is there anything special you want you know for your services ? Any song you want us to play ? Right , do you not want anybody to do certain things ? You know what is it ?
I wanted to have that conversation for me , you know , because dealing with the decision to me , like well , is this what you wanted ? Was kind of overwhelming . But I was talking about trying to have that conversation with my therapist . It's , like you know , I'm nervous about it .
What if she shuts down , right , what if she like shuts me out or , like you know , always going to the worst case scenario . I'm like she doesn't want to have this conversation . If she did , we would have already had it .
So we wound up coming up with like all right , jess , what is the worst case scenario , what is the best case scenario and what's something somewhere in the middle . So that's a process that I kind of go back to for pretty much anything now .
So I have a huge maybe it's just the anxiety side of me where I'm always projecting into the future and I'm always projecting worst case scenario . So , coming back to that , for anything at this point or like you know , something's coming up and I think it's going to be awful . Well , what if it's not right ? What is not awful ?
And I use this thing in my programs . I call the magic question , and I think everybody can come up with your own magic question . But my magic question is what if the opposite were true ? Right ? So anytime I'm telling myself something negative or I'm making a negative assumption about a circumstance , it will . What if the opposite were true ?
And I sit with that , and so there's my piece for you , like always back . Little . What if the opposite were true ?
if you're projecting into the negative , yes , yes , exactly , and I think that's , you know , really important .
And I talked to my clients as well as like , if you're gonna hold this side , right , yeah , yeah , don't forget that there's this other side as well , because Darkness cannot live without light , pain cannot live without joy , right , they are weird , it is energetically matched . So , worst case scenario you gotta , are you gonna live through that ?
I think you will , but it's really painful if it's worse , and Also , what is the best ? and it is that kind of grounding Part of like you don't have ? To believe the best case scenario because our brains are wired to survive , so we go to worst case scenario especially as moms you know the Roman Empire thing on tiktok . I don't know if you've seen that .
It's like men think about the Roman Empire like almost every day , whatever so the everyone's like what's the women's version of a Roman Empire ? And it's like getting assaulted or my kids getting hurt . You know what I mean . It's like we are constantly Surveying is this environment safe ? Am I saying ?
what is the worst case scenario Really , especially ?
postpartum right . And do we , and with grief and all these other things , and so your nervous system , our nervous systems , are rhymed and exhausted and burnt out Because we haven't done enough of the grounding work which I'm hearing you do Especially as moms , though , in in any season , like it's just so important that we forget .
We also have this other really important tool . That again , is that , like in our bodies , available to us Absolutely ?
Yeah , move , beautiful me and I love what you said about the darkness versus the light . It kind of brings me to another art prompt that I like .
Yes .
Yeah . So something I like to do when I feel like doing like a bigger project instead of just like a five minute reset , is intentional painting . So I set an intention for a painting , and it's usually oil or acrylic , because it takes a lot more time and it's not about the outcome .
It's never about the outcome of none of the art and the Programs that I do are about like the outcome of what you're making . It's about the process and how you feel when you're making it and the fact that you're being creative and you're exploring and you're expressing what you're going through .
So a piece that I created , again in the anticipated story stage , was it's an image of a dark path through the woods with the moonlight behind it , and it's something that I say will never be done , because I don't think I will ever be through grieving Right . I don't think you ever finally could fit .
But the purpose of it was that every day , for an hour when I could find it , I would sit in front of this painting and I would work on it and , as I work on it the whole time , harnessing the fact that , yes , I'm in the darkness . Yes , this really sucks right now . There is light on the other side .
I don't know how I'm gonna get to it , but I'm going to get to it and I just have to , as I was painting , just really sit with that and trust that I'm gonna get through it . I don't know how long this is gonna take , but yeah going to get to the other side of the light , so I keep it somewhere where I can . You know .
If I'm having a bad day with it , I can just add a little thing to it . Oh , I love that tree or like a highlight somewhere , but I don't think it's something that's ever finished and I think that it's something that will always just be something to add to when I'm in the dark far .
Yes , yes , jess , you have created so many freaking tools for yourself .
Like I mean , I'm sure your therapist is up , but who you are in your creativity and and being a yogi and yeah , breath work and all these things , like I just think you've really encapsulated so many beautiful things that I feel are feminine in Like the creativity piece and also the body piece . Like there's something really flowy about .
Love that you say that , because that's where the name creative current came from . Oh shit , yeah . Being From being in a state of flow like that is what I've been chasing . I feel like my whole life is like it's not .
I've never considered myself to be like a great artist , like I have my degree in painting sure , I spent four years in a studio going at it . I come from a musical family and I love to sing and I love to do musical things and write music . I never consider myself to be like an excellent version of any of those . I love being in the process .
I love going into a state of flow . I love when time disappears because I'm creating and I don't care about anything else . That's going on . And it's not that I think I'm making something wonderful and magical , it's that I just don't care about anything else .
I'm going .
The absolute process and that's something that I really try to incorporate into every program and every workshop is , like you know , I recently did a paint and sit with these college students and they were like I mean , I don't know , are you ? And they hated that answer . Like no , I want to know . Like , am I doing it right ?
like I don't know what do you feel like it needs , do you ?
think that the ruin can be green . Go for it . I love that , yeah . So yeah , I like I chase that state of flow and thank you for saying that . It's taken a lot , a lot of time To do that . Just to you know . Take it a little deeper to . I am somebody who struggles with high-functioning depression and I know that's not like a clinical diagnosis .
It's more like I , from what I understand the way that you experience your depression , right . So it took me 20 years to even admit that out loud .
I really only said it out loud to a couple people before , um , but it's because my understanding of depression is like people can't get out of bed , right , they are so low they can't take care of themselves , and I always felt that if I were to admit that I have depression , that's discrediting those people who are truly suffering .
All right , so I always shoved it down and thought this is , you know , the way I feel is a result of my own doing so I need to undo it , I need to fix myself . So I have been trying different things for so long to try to mend that and try to fix that , instead of just accepting that
¶ Embracing Creativity and Mental Health
. You know , yes , there's a problem and maybe it's chemical . Yeah , maybe processional health is . You're not entitled , but , like you are welcome to get . Yeah , you can have access to that and it's not taking it away from somebody who may be having suicidal ideation . And you're not doesn't mean that you don't get , you shouldn't get help .
So I think a huge part of what I do , you know , not just with my programs , but just in general , like I want people to know that you do not have to hit rock bottom in order to start to feel better , and I think that 20 years ago , jess should have been told that you know yeah , but everything's Right and it's timing , you know like yeah , can I ask do
you know the enneagram ?
Do you there any ? Don't .
I know you , you told me about the any Something that I just like I looked it up and I just don't remember that's it . Yeah , I remember what it was , yeah .
Well , there's , there's a four , who is like the most creative number and I think , okay , I like don't know the intergram guys . So if you're listening , like that's under . But you're right , but you're giving me like four wing , three vibes and three threes the achiever . But . But four is , is Everything .
Four is darkness and light and they just relish in both more dark than light , right , like just the pain , and they're just so beautiful and so Deep they're so hide behind the light .
It's like the light like a front .
No , I I think they can get there , but I think they'll choose to feel Red , red the depths and yeah , I think majority sometimes is the the darker feelings , if you will .
Whatever the hell that right , but like the depression or the .
You know it's and it's kind of dramatic and and you're in . You aren't dramatic in itself , but but I I think there's something that you can access and that's something very unique about you , where you access the depths of your emotions .
That's residue .
That seems pretty accurate . Yes , and you will yourself into processing them . Yeah that's , I think , the trap of the four . They can just be trapped with them . You have willed your way out of them and say , oh , this is it . I'm feeling it , I'm going to process this , I'm going to put this paint on this paper , I'm going to do breathwork .
I'm going you you allow it to move through you to then again . It's like holding the depths of it all , which feels really exhilarating . Exhilarating and exciting and also so freaking pain , you know , yeah , that sounds so spot-on .
Okay . I don't know how accurate it is with the enneagram stuff , because I don't know it . But the script wise , like you're , like , you're like , yeah , you just got in there .
Okay , okay , yes , the disclaimer , I am not a . I know someone that can help you with that Aaron with the enneagram . What's her name ? Living the enneagram on Instagram , come on . But um , she like retied to me and has changed my life , but , but I think sometimes Like that , for me , astrology is really important to like all of these things .
I think we're just puzzle pieces that allows you to be who you are Instead of like . Why am I functionally depressed all the time , or what would you call ?
it . Yeah , well , it took a while to get there too . I don't think I ever actually felt that . I think , for such a long time I felt like I dabble in this , I dabble in that , I'm like a jill of all trades and that I felt like that made me lesser because I didn't have like one specific thing that I was , like you know , running with An excelling at .
So I was always looking for that one thing , right , yeah . But then I think , you know , over the last couple years , I realized wait a minute , you can kind of dabble in a lot of things and put them all together , and maybe that's the purpose .
Maybe you're supposed to try on a million different things and Because what feels good for me this week probably will feel good for me next week . Like I get bored so easily , right , whatever tools I'm using this week , in a couple months I'm so sick of that , like I don't want a journal anymore . Yeah , like I'm tired of journaling , what else can I do ?
And I pull out a different tool . But I think that's what it's really about . It's about like Researching and searching for and trying on . Right , just try it on , try on a lot of different things , because you don't know what's gonna happen and what's gonna help pull you out when the time comes .
You're just gonna keep trying them all out again and what feels good will feel good .
Yes , yeah , and I think that's a just a side all you saying that I'm also working with of like , what are these societal things that have kind of trapped me into my thinking of ? Like like Jill of all trades . Why is that a bad thing ?
Right . Why did I think that was so ?
bad for so long .
Yes , yes , right , because again , like this , conform , like to conform to something , and so anything special or unique or outside of that is weird or strange , or is it marketable or it's not successful or whatever the adjective is negative , one , right , and so I think there's a lot of freedom when you can embrace all parts of yourself , all emotions of yourself ,
all like pieces of grief with yourself , all of the again for four or two , like just all of the creativity and that's what makes you you and there's something really childlike energy to and the creativeness it's like feminine and childlike where we forget because we live in such a like masculine world of do , do , do isn't a lot of space for creating , processing ,
feeling right .
Or play . Getting back in touch with play and that's where I feel like the creative expression comes through is like play with it . Don't try to make it perfect . Just what happens if you put a little drop of green over there ? What happens ? If you fold the paper in half and look at it Like get curious , just do some weird stuff and it's gonna feel good .
And then you're like , okay , this might look like garbage , but I really I'm just making it .
Yes , yes , and I think we get caught up as moms , especially like I don't have time to play or I don't wanna play the way you wanna play .
Oh , yes , you know and I just wanna like I don't wanna play dolls today . I'm done playing dolls today .
Yes , Exactly , I like you know . But it is like finding those avenues and I think maybe that's why those paintings that parties have gotten so popular to me . And there's wine .
But it's like feminine energy , getting together , doing something that you normally wouldn't do , like there's not a lot of spaces for that , and so , again , I just appreciate the spaces that you're creating and I would love for you to talk about , like , how , like , what do you do at CreativeCon ?
Like what are the ?
events that happen and how can I come to one ?
Awesome , yeah , so I have previously everything's been in person in the Bluffton area and some back in New Jersey before everything changed .
¶ Creative Workshops for Mindfulness and Self-Care
So my main workshop that I do is called the Balance Creative , depending on where it is . Sometimes it's the great meditate if there's no room for yoga .
But what I typically do is , when you come into a balanced creative workshop , first we do a cleansing meditation where we just get present , we let go of the energy that we came in with , we shed whatever happened earlier in the day , whatever argument you have with your kid , whatever it is that you just get present , you get quiet and you just shed that .
Then we talk about a little bit of color theory and color psychology , which is just kind of like . I encourage you to choose what colors mean for you . I give you some background on different cultures and what they may think , what different psychologies we think . Some people think that red is danger . Some people think that red is passion and love .
What does it mean to you , so you assign your colors to your specific feelings , and then we work on a watercolor experiment , depending on what the theme of the workshop is . I'll just do my Valentine's Day . One is always creating self-love , so we'll do a series of parts in watercolors . Very slow , oh yeah .
Usually we paint like a stamp , almost , or like a cookie cutter and press it on and then you add the water to it and you watch how the water moves around the page Boosh , and we spend time in that . You choose your colors . What's speaking to you that day ? What is it that you've been feeling ?
What color would you give it , and what color emanates what you want to feel ? Let's think about those two things . So those are the two colors that I really want people to play with in that scenario . So we play with watercolor , then we do a targeted yoga flow . So for that specific one , we would do a series of heart openers .
Everything is so beginner friendly , like if you've never done watercolor or anything , if you've never picked up a paintbrush , you've never stepped on a yoga mat and you've never meditated . Good , you're in the right spot . This is the best place to get your first taste of it .
So , anyway , we go back through the yoga flow and at the end of the yoga flow I walk you through a color meditation , clearing out the old , bringing in the new .
And then , once that's finalized and we kind of come back to our bodies and we sit up , we choose a mantra or just even just a word that really speaks to you , and we just write it real big or like a bunch of times on your watercolor project so that you do have something tangible to take with you .
But it's really about the experience and the process of you creating and version and just kind of coming out renewed and refreshed .
Yeah , so that's my in person , yes , but I'm like grabbing five of my girlfriends right now and going on a plane like yes to a retreat yes , like I know , we talked about retreats , like in doing that one day , but that feels like such a retreat , vi , that I want to be short they can be long , depending on and like , yes , some retreat experiences .
I've been asked to do a couple of those and like I just , yes , I would do that all day with you . Yeah .
How long you ?
wanted to be . I can create something along those lines to kind of totally fill that entire day for it .
Yeah .
Yeah . So , like that's the in person option Coming in January , I'm starting to offer these workshops online and I'm really excited for it . It's something that's totally brand new . Some like that . You know what we like to call a nervous side .
Oh yeah , nervous yeah totally nervous .
So I'll be able to offer that specific workshop . We'll do on a weekly basis so people can sign up for like four packs of that and join me for that .
And then I'm also going to be offering what I'm calling inspired inks , which is a 30 minute doodle like lunch reset , so you'll come on and you can do it with like pen and paper , pencil , your kids crayon , whatever you have . And it'll just be a quick 30 minute middle of the day reset where we meditate and doodle and I guide you through that whole process .
Fun , yeah , I think something like short , and especially people who , like you know , I'm technically a stay at home mom , I , you know , midday reset might not happen . But like I think that's my corporate days too , when I was working in an office and I had that like one hour of lunch . I'm like how am I going to like make it true to us ?
Yeah , yeah , yeah . What can I do so that I don't go in there a month before I put my head in the oven ? Yes , exactly , Exactly . So I think , yeah , in midday reset it was really great for that . So I'm looking forward to that one .
But I also have coming up in January , my mom's five minute reset and basically what that is teaching moms to take just five minutes each day . Number one figuring out how to carve out that time , where to squeeze it in and when to use it best so that you can help it like stretch longer , like take that energy with you through the hard parts of the day .
So I help them analyze that and then try on all of these different grounding tools and techniques like journaling , mindfulness , intention setting , visualization , affirmation , creative expression , mindful movement and connecting with nature .
So each week has a different focus , for you're just going to try it on for five minutes a day and at the end of the week we'll reflect and see what worked for you . Did you like that method ? Did you hate that method ? You know what came up , what were your blocks and how can we get through them .
And then , so there'll be options for that , so you could do a self led , so you can purchase it , so that it comes each week to you and you do it in your own time . I know you know , as mom , kind of hard sometimes to commit to a specific timing day for anything . Yes , yeah , but I'll also have an option for a group connection .
So we'll meet once a week at the end of the week to talk about how everything went as a group , so that you can see that you are not alone in this process there are so many other people who are trying to figure it out as they go to and they'll also offer one on one guidance where I can work with you for an hour a week .
We'll dive in , we'll really get into what's gotten in the way for you in the last week . You know how did everything sit for you and what can we do to really make this work for you .
And then at the end of that , you can do more one on one guidance where I take you deeper into whatever the one or two things that you tried on during that eight weeks and really help you just run with that .
I love it , like really incorporate it into your life . Yeah .
Once you figure yeah , I think it's important for you to try on a lot of different things , you know like you said before , like you don't know what's gonna work right away , or maybe it's just intimidating of even knowing how and where to start right , if you just hear the word mindfulness you're like .
Well , how the hell do I start just like being mindful all the time ? Yeah Well , I'm gonna show you and just a couple minutes a day . You're saying . You start , it's just a couple minutes . Yes .
Yeah .
I think it's important to try it .
Yes , and I again just want to like reflect back to you , like think what a wonderful guide you are . I just feel you're very relatable and kind and creative and like just create so much space .
I think you're just an inviter , you're just like inviting so many people in and I think especially moms , of like I know what it's like , I've been through it and I've worked it . I mean , I'm sure it was hard work , but it feels very like the way you talk about it . I was like , well , this is actually how my life is now .
I , I take care of myself constantly and I prioritize that in order to do x , y and z , in order to grieve , in order to be a mom , in order to do this , and yeah , I think that I think just feel like our that mission is so aligned with with us , of like it's so much hard work to do that for ourselves and it'll just like screaming from the rooftops
like you can do it too , and we can all do this together and feel fucking better , like yeah , absolutely , and you don't have to commit to these giant time chunks in order to do it .
I think that's the other roadblock people think is that like well , I don't have an hour to go to yoga ? Yeah , neither do I . But you know I have five minutes to go greet in the closet Like yes , yes , yeah to do a little twist . Yeah , exactly so I think it's .
You know about taking it and slow drips , as I've heard you say before , like haven't all come in . And slow drips and like bite sizes , where you know it's not going to hit you in the face and overwhelm you when you start . You know we want this to be a sustainable change .
We want this to be something that you take with you forever , not just to get you through the next couple weeks when we're working .
Yes , Okay , I thought of something for you right now , but I and I don't know I don't know if there's space here for you this year , but I feel like leading people through grief and the holidays through art would be such a beautiful offer when you are ready for that , because that just feels so needed in the like two months coming up or the month of .
But whenever that happens for you , it will happen for you .
Yeah , I think that . I think that's a great idea . I think that there's something about going through something with somebody , right ? So my first reaction is like , well , maybe I go through it first and then I help everybody you know with when I learn through that . But I think there's so much more to gain from being in the moment .
I mean like , right , this is what's showing up for me in the holidays right now . Yeah , this is how I'm dealing with it . Yeah , maybe it'll help you if you try it on too .
Yeah , again , you invite them into the process of it . And I just think you invite them into processing it instead of yeah , like it's heavy . But then here's how you can kind of unload it a little bit or cry about it or whatever it is , you know percent .
cry about it , yeah . Cry about it , yes , all the time , yeah , like you know , along the lines of that too . It's like it comes to a very sensitive point of like . As a busy mom , you maybe have somebody crawling up your legs so you can't cry about it right then , and it can get really hard if you don't notice that you're shoving it down .
So I think it's like I love to almost greet it like invited in . I guess it's maybe the term for it should be like hey , listen , grief , or whatever the feeling associate with it , whether it's sadness or anger or whatever . It is like hey , I see you , I've got this going on climbing here .
I can't get to you right now , but you know , later tonight we're going to sit with us . Yeah , yeah , Then also understanding that just because you scheduled time for it doesn't mean it's gonna come up right then .
Yes , I , you know , and I I mean , I've had grief in different ways , but I've actually just cried in front of my children , not like ball , oh , I cried and I'm like mom is just sad , I'm just sad right now . No , and I think that's so important .
Yeah . So something that I kind of love , that my therapist's all the ages , like you , are so open with your daughter like , yeah , I will sob in front of her and just be like I am sad because grandma doesn't feel good . Like I just am so transparent with her to like every degree you know with her . You know , respect for her age and development ?
Yeah , appropriate , I'm not inappropriate .
Yeah , yeah , but what do you think that it helps ?
Yes , and I think that it helps love , understand , as they grow , that these feelings are normal . They suck , that's our normal .
Yes , yes , exactly , and that's like how you take care of yourself . Is you allow yourself ? To feel it , yeah , and contain it with yourself , and not spill and spill it over , oh my god , yes , yeah , exactly .
Because that's what happens . Because that happens , you shove it down .
We're bubbling over Bam bam bam . Watch out world . Just , you have been
¶ Finding and Coping With Grief
so amazing . Can you tell everybody where to find you ? And we'll put that in the show notes as well .
Yeah , absolutely . You can find me on Instagram at get creative current , or on my website , which is get creative currentcom , and if you go there , you can sign up for my email list , where you'll be the first to know when you can sign up for my upcoming programs or workshops . But the place that I am most active is definitely on Instagram .
Yes , yay , okay , all right , thank you so much for being here . We hope that everybody , if you are grieving this holiday season , we just invite you into that and know that I think come back to this episode whenever you need , because just gave us so many great tools of how to ground and how to be center in the midst of change and grief .
Enjoy , thank you so much for having me .
Yeah , okay , see ya .