How to avoid greenwashing with Melissa Hobson

Speaker 1: (00:01)
Hello, and welcome to How To Start Up, a podcast for anyone starting a company. This is a collection of conversations with people who have all successfully started, run and even sold their own companies, sharing not only professional, but personal experiences on what we should be doing now next or never. Hosted by me Juliet Fallowfield, founder of PR consultancy for startups, Fallow, Field and Mason. In this episode, we hear from Melissa Hobson, a self-employed specialist, copywriter and PR consultant working with, for purpose organisations. Driven by her passion for Marine conservation, Melissa pursued self-employment in February, 2021 to support organisations that are making a positive difference to the oceans, the planet and to people's lives. Melissa shares with us, her advice for founders seeking to avoid greenwashing and authentically implement environmentally friendly processes within their businesses. Hi Melissa, it's great to have you on How To Start Up today. It'd be wonderful. If you could start with a brief introduction as to who you are and the work that you do.

Speaker 2: (01:01)
Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm Melissa Hobson. I am a copywriter and a PR consultant and I'm a sole trader. So my business is just me. I set out as self-employed in 2021. So all the pandemic craziness was still rolling on, but previously I'd built up a career in PR, mainly agency side in London. And after about a decade of doing that for various clients, I had a bit of burnout, quit and moved to Mozambique. As you do.

Speaker 2: (01:35)
I started working with Marine conservation charities over there, and then the pandemic brought me home. So I'd been working with conservation charities in house and as pro bono. And then in the pandemic, I set out on my own and I now do that as freelance.

Speaker 1: (01:53)
How are you finding being a sole trader?

Speaker 2: (01:55)
I absolutely love it.

Speaker 1: (01:58)
What's the number one thing that you love the most about it?

Speaker 2: (02:01)
I think for me, it's having the control over my business, my time, my boundaries, and being able to really shape things in a way that work for me. I used to love agency life. It was really busy. I had a big variety of clients, but I did feel like sometimes you are at the desk because you need to be at the desk as opposed to it necessarily being the best time for your brain. So being able to flex things like that and just really make sure that everything's working best for me. And then it works best for my clients as well.

Speaker 1: (02:34)
And talking of your desk, your desk has obviously now changed slightly.

Speaker 2: (02:37)
So my niche is Marine conservation. I'm a diver and I just love the ocean. So anything to do with the ocean Marine conservation is where I really geek out basically, but I also do other charity and sustainability related consulting as well from a writing and PR perspective. So that's where my client base tends to sit.

Speaker 1: (03:00)
And why was it you went into that in particular? Was it like a personal passion that you then got to do for your day job?

Speaker 2: (03:06)
A hundred percent. Looking back I kind of feel like I just couldn't help myself. I was actually a diver before I even started in PR. I went to Australia on a holiday when I was at university. Someone persuaded me to learn to scuba and I thought, why not? It'll be fine. Hated every second of the training, it was awful. And all I could think was just, I just need to get through this and then I never have to do it again. And then they got me in the ocean and everything changed. And after that, it was just trying to find more ways to dive as a hobby. Then I started writing for some diving magazines and it's all gradually crept up that yeah, my career and my passion have combined, which has been amazing really, really cool.

Speaker 1: (03:48)
And with that, you'll see a lot of clients who come to you with green claims and we understand the term greenwashing from a top level, but I'm hoping you could explain it a little bit more in detail.

Speaker 2: (03:57)
Yeah, absolutely. So this is definitely something I think people and businesses are increasingly aware of at the moment. Essentially greenwashing is putting out an inaccurate impression that your business is more green than it is. So that might be straight out lies for some companies, hopefully not, but you do see it happen. It can also be things like people maybe exaggerating a claim or saying something that actually, if you dig into the evidence, it might be a little bit misleading. It's not being completely square with your customers essentially. And with the people that you are talking about your business to

Speaker 3: (04:34)
Well, and presumably as a copywriter, people come to you to do that for them and give that impression and maybe exaggerate a little bit. Do you have to do a lot of fact checking and due diligence on your client's claims?

Speaker 2: (04:48)
Yeah, absolutely. I tend to say no to a lot of clients. So I do get approached by quite a lot of people who want to talk about their sustainability commitments, for example, and the due diligence actually comes beforehand and I'll maybe look into it and say, you know, I don't think we're a good fit for each other. Sometimes that might be other things capacity or whatever. But if there's a client who wants to talk about their sustainability commitments, but then won't talk about the details of what those are, that can be a big red flag for me. There is the opportunity sometimes when you're working with clients that being able to push back and ask those questions actually sends them off to do some more digging themselves. And I have worked with some clients, corporates and things like that, who actually want to get it right. So can have quite honest conversations about what does this actually mean? You've said your product is 50% greener, but 50% greener than what? What do you mean by greener? Have you looked at the whole supply chain, not just the last little bit and all those kind of questions, you can really dig quite deep into things.

Speaker 3: (05:52)
How do you encourage people to do that? Is it just, and I do this a lot with my clients as well. It's sort of going back to the detail and the facts and say the more detailed you can get and the more statistics you can get in there and prove them the better. What advice would you give for a new founder or a new company when it comes to their green claims?

Speaker 2: (06:10)
So I guess the key thing that I would say if people haven't heard of it is to check out the Green Claims Code and that's something that was launched at the start of this year. So start of 2022 in the UK, and it's basically a code to help businesses not mislead their customers. There's a full, I think it's 60 something page document, which I have been through several times, but you don't luckily need to go through every single page of that. They do have some really handy checklists and things like that. So having a good read of that and being familiar with it and the type of things, again that it's talking about is are you being fully transparent? If you're comparing something, is it an honest comparison? If you're doing, say, a carbon emissions reduction comparison or something like that, is it like for like with what you're saying your carbon emissions are lower than. Are you thinking about your full supply chain and basically thinking about it from a consumer perspective. Whether you are a product or a service company, is there any way that the person that you are speaking to might misinterpret what you are saying?

Speaker 2: (07:17)
So it might be that you are using jargon or terms that they might misunderstand, or they might not understand in the right way. So it's really kind of looking at everything under a bit of a microscope

Speaker 3: (07:28)
And then just don't misconstrue anything and don't be elusive. I find a really good way of sense checking anything with copywriting is sending it to someone that knows nothing about that sector or that client. And if they can understand it, then that's fine.

Speaker 2: (07:41)
Hundred percent, absolutely.

Speaker 3: (07:43)
And given that you are recently self-employed, how do you define success for your business? What does success look like to you?

Speaker 2: (07:51)
That's a great question. When I was agency side on the career ladder, I think I thought that success was promotion, a job title and being able to do more and develop myself and all those kind of things. But actually since I've gone self-employed myself, I've realised that for me, success is actually being able to do something that I really, really love, which I'm lucky enough that I am doing at the moment, but also being able to use my business to give back. So having a purpose led or mission first business or whatever you want to call it. And then the third thing for me is having a healthy work life balance, which is something I'm working on. Not always possible, as you'll know with agency life. It's a bit hard.

Speaker 3: (08:40)
Well exactly when you're consulting, you have multiple stakeholders and you want to do the right thing and do more and you love it. It's very hard to draw the line of knowing when enough's enough. And actually on that something, when we were introduced, I noticed that you had this absolutely game changing out of office set on for any email that sent your inbox. I was hoping you could expand on that for listeners.

Speaker 2: (08:58)
Yeah, absolutely. So I can't take credit for this because I saw it from someone else who had a similar setup, but it's basically when someone sends me an email, they'll immediately get an out of office reply, which basically outlines the timeframes. They can expect a response for different stakeholders. So, but something along the lines of, if you are a current client or a current editor that I'm working with, you are my top priority and I'll aim to get back to you within however many working hours or days. If it's urgent for your email again, with urgent in the subject header and I'll take a look at it ASAP. And then if you are a PR person, this is what I write about, this is how I write. If you're sending me a press release, that's not that thanks, but no, thanks. Just making it really clear. As soon as people get in touch with me when they'll be able to hear back. And obviously if they're a potential client, I've outlined my lead time for new clients coming on board. So sometimes people leave things quite last minute. So they know straight away that I'm not available until X, Y, Z, if they need to go away and find someone else.

Speaker 3: (10:04)
And actually for anyone listening, that's thinking about copy NPR, please think about it four months ahead of when you think you might need it, because copy needs to be planned. It needs to live and breathe. And both of Melissa and I work with words and the longer you can think about it and digest it and the better. And then obviously when you come to pitch it to a journalist, they need to think about it and then research the story into an editor and then it needs to be researched. So the longer, the lead time, the better, but something also I think about boundary setting is I noticed that if people wanted to book in a PR power hour review, they can do that through Calendly. And it comes at a fee and a lot of people I've spoken to in the last few weeks, journalist included, they get so many people saying, can I just quickly pick your brains? It's like you can, but that's called consulting and that comes at a rate. So your out of office was really interesting. And I think that also falls into the advice that was in season one of automate, delegate and solve. That out of office email does all three. It given that you are now soul trader and potentially working quite a lot in a silo and, and on your own, who do you go to for advice to stay inspired?

Speaker 2: (11:08)
I'm a complete podcast, obsessive. So, um, I love podcasts and I actually tend to on my walk to the gym, I listen to a kind of work related podcast one way and then a fun one on the way back. But then also for me, it's really important to connect with like-minded business owners. And you mentioned my Calendly. So I have different types of meetings on there. And one of them is just a freelance chatter. So another freelancer who does a similar thing to me, or maybe not, that just wants a bit of a water cooler moment. We can book in a bit of time to just chat and get to know each other. And I've met some absolutely brilliant sole traders and business owners that way.

Speaker 3: (11:51)
Given that we've had this pandemic and that we all are very familiar with online calls. Have you found that expedited, that online networking and it's just made it completely normal now that we just have a quick zoom call, we don't need to have face to face coffees or spend three days trying to find the time to meet in person?

Speaker 2: (12:07)
I think so. I mean, personally for the couple of years before the pandemic, I was working with Marine conservation organisations anyway, where a lot of the team was on different time zones. So I was quite used to that already, but I have seen that shift of almost everyone else kind of catching up and realising, oh, I don't need to take the whole day to go into London for a meeting that could be a zoom. But equally, if something's valuable enough to have that face to face time, then making that decision. And I think that's where it's really nice that there is still the face to face stuff going on, but people are really thinking about the value of their time in that way.

Speaker 3: (12:49)
Yes. And that's the other thing I was talking to some press last week on a press trip with a client saying how you can have a zoom rate and then you can have an in-person rate because you need to pay for the travel time. It takes to get to that in-person meeting, which is time you can't be spent working on anything else. And what's the most surprising thing that you've learned about yourself since becoming your own boss?

Speaker 2: (13:07)
I think it's been the realisation of how other people see your business from the outside. I have a particular anecdote that kind of springs to mind with this. So I was writing an article for National Geographic and I was interviewing a squid marine biologist about a new study that hadn't come out yet. We were going to be one of the first publications to run it. It was all super exciting and I'm pretty sure I was in my pajamas because that's a fairly safe bet. I was on my laptop and I had a whole flock of ducks suddenly invade my kitchen and I was laptop in one hand trying to shoe all these ducks outside. And it was just a complete hot mess, basically. Absolutely mortifying having to say to this guy, I'm, I'm really sorry there's suddenly ducks all over my kitchen and I just need to sort them out. But obviously on the other side, all everyone else sees as the byline, they see the article, which by that point has been, I've spent a lot of time on it and my editors have worked really closely with me on it. So they just see that finished polished piece. And I guess that's a bit of an analogy for everyone's business. Probably we look at ourselves and think, oh, but I'm not doing this enough. So I think that's what surprised me kind of having more of an awareness of how other people perceive your business.

Speaker 3: (14:20)
Yes, it does make me laugh because there's so many friends who, oh my goodness, you're doing so well. It looks like you're doing brilliantly. I'm like no one else has seen that P and L and that's where that question comes from because on the outside, people can see what I'm putting on Instagram or putting LinkedIn and in my head, I'm chuckling going you didn't see me working till two o'clock in the morning or the fact I haven't had a days holiday in two years or whatever it might be, but their definition of success could be very different to what actually makes you happy in your own job. And given that you have so many stakeholders to juggle and so many different things that you are doing, how do you structure your day and, and find that work life balance?

Speaker 2: (14:56)
My days do vary depending on the type of work that I've got coming in. I tend to have my deep focus time in the morning. And then I usually take a long lunch. I'll walk to the gym, I'll have a class, I'll walk back, have some lunch, have a shower, and then catching up with the lighter work, the admin, that emails, that kind of thing in the afternoon. But as I said, the great thing for me about working for myself is that my boss lets me do what I want. So if I've got a dentist appointment at 11 or a friend that is in town and wants to go for coffee on a Wednesday, as long as I'm not missing any deadlines, I can flex things as much as I like

Speaker 3: (15:33)
In terms of holes in the road. Is there anything that you'd flag to a new founder that they should keep an awareness of?

Speaker 2: (15:37)
The one thing which I luckily haven't fallen into, but I know a lot of friends and freelance colleagues who have, is setting that tax aside when the money comes in from your invoice. And then I guess the other thing I know, obviously we've been talking about being green and greenwashing and that kind of thing is being really open and transparent about what you're doing. If you are talking about things from an ethical or an eco point of view, just be really, really honest. I think people are worried about talking about the things that they're not doing or that they're struggling to do, but those are the things I think we actually should be talking about more than the things that we are doing, because it's all very well to crow about your successes. But actually the growth comes when we are talking about where we've hit a wall

Speaker 3: (16:23)
I was going to say, what do you enjoy the least about being your own boss?

Speaker 2: (16:28)
I would probably say when we have bank holidays and everyone asks what I'm up to, because often I'll be at my desk working, but I am, again, we talked a little bit about boundaries. I am trying to push back against that a little bit more and take those bank holiday days, set those annual leave days. And actually one of the things that I'm trialing now is if everyone else has a bank holiday and I have to work for deadlines or whatever reason, then I take it as time off in lieu.

Speaker 3: (16:57)
Yeah, you need a break. And I think for me I've been loving cause we are in quarter two of 2022. We've had quite a lot of UK public holidays, in quick succession, but it does mean the rest of the world is off as well. So you are not gonna have a slew of emails in your inbox those times. So if you are wanting a proper break, public holidays are good days to try and take off if you can. And just any last golden nugget pieces advice that you'd like to offer a new founder?

Speaker 2: (17:23)
For me, I think we mentioned about one of the things that I'm really trying to do is to have a positive impact through my business. And I think that that's something that everyone can do. Everyone's mission and values are gonna be slightly different, but you can do something that gives back or that makes a change in a way that you think is impactful and important for you. So just start and do one thing that you think is gonna be important for you.

Speaker 3: (17:50)
And could you give us an example of that one small thing? They could just start themselves on that journey?

Speaker 2: (17:54)
I mean, there's so many when I say kind of talking about doing one thing, people often think that, oh, I can't have an impact led business because I'd need to give up flying completely and go vegan and do all these really big things. It's like, well actually, could you do an audit of your energy within your office or wherever your office space is now? And is there anything you can do to reduce that a little bit? Do you fill the ketle all the way to the top when you boil it because that's gonna be using more energy. Can you just change to a habit of just boiling for the tea you need? You can do things like reducing paper usage, printing double sided, using recycled paper, using those scraps. Thinking about offsetting is one of those things that's best to measure your impact first rather than leading with offsetting. But there are some great offsetting companies that you can look to offset your emissions. Can you change your travel policy? Do you out of habit drive to the office every day? Is it somewhere you could cycle? So there's lots of little things, but I think the important thing is that people do something that's suitable for them in their situation rather than trying to do what they think they should do

Speaker 3: (19:07)
Don't make it too overwhelming. Just one little thing.

Speaker 2: (19:11)
I think that's really motivating and it's something that everyone can do, especially small businesses actually,

Speaker 1: (19:16)


Speaker 1: (19:19)
Thank you Melissa so much for your time today. It has been fascinating talking to you. I encourage anyone with questions to drop Melissa a line to find out more and thank you again Melissa for your time.

Speaker 2: (19:30)
Thank you. It's been great to chat.

Speaker 1: (19:32)
Thank you for listening to How To Start Up. I hope these conversations offer you some confidence, encouragement, and reassurance that you are on the right track. If you enjoy this podcast, I'd be so appreciative. If you were to rate, review and subscribe, as it will really help other people starting a company discover it.