We are in a time where we can't rely just on government to get conservation priorities past a certain line and to help protect the ocean or to protect the environment or make sure that we are doing things sustainably. There are some times when there's a government in power that may not help us and that may go sometimes the opposite way. It sucks, nobody likes it, but there are times where we have to rely on businesses to do what they need to do not only to make a profit, but
make an impact. And that's today's topic. We are going to be talking to Marcus O'Donovan. He is the founder of CO2U, which provides carbon dioxide cylinders for your sparkling water. It's a fantastic model and you're probably like, how is this sustainable, Andrew? Well, it's sustainable in that you are using your tap water. You're making your tap water more exciting. You're not buying sparkling water out of a plastic bottle. You are actually enjoying your water and
you get it on demand. And it's sustainable. And that's how it's sustainable. Does he go on and on about talking about how sustainable this product is, no. He just enjoys providing sparkling water on demand for people in and around the UK and parts of Europe. And I think it's just amazing. And I wanted you to get to know him and his business practice and all the other things that he's done over time that has prepared him for CO2U. So let's start the show. Hey
everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, and this is the podcast where you find out what's happening with the ocean, how you can speak up for the ocean, and what you can do to live for a better ocean by taking action. And today we're gonna be talking about how to... have a business that's sustainable and not necessarily build it based on
that sustainability. I think that's what's really important here. I think a lot of people, and I included, when I first started getting into the sustainability practice and looking at businesses and talking about the selling points of a business, I was like, let's talk about how sustainable this
business is. Well, it doesn't always have to be that way. And I think a lot of people, a lot of consumers are getting tired of hearing about sustainability and tired of hearing, hey, you know what, you should buy this because it's good for the planet. People want to buy things because it's good for them. They can use it, it's convenient, and they want to do that. And that's what Marcus O'Donovan has really done with CO2U. It's a very interesting business model with a
product that you probably never would have thought of as counting as sustainable. I didn't really think so when I first started this interview. And then as I went through the interview, I'm like, oh, I see what it is. This is sparkling water on demand. Instead of going out to the store and buying it in a plastic bottle or buying it in a single use plastic, you can actually get sparkling water
on demand right from tap water. So you're not using extra water, you're not supporting companies who are not sustainable, bringing plastic into the supply chain and it being single use and it's not getting recycling, you're having at home, it's convenient to you and you get to excite your water a little bit and have a good time at home. I think this is something that becomes really important in terms of the messaging. And Marcus talks a lot about his entrepreneurial journey, which I think is
really important. When we look at problem solving, which is basically business and entrepreneurs, they are problem solvers. We look at how can we create businesses that solve the problems that we're facing like in the ocean or in the environment and make things more sustainable. That's the problem that we have to solve. A lot of you in the audience wanna solve the
very same problem in different ways. And Marcus talks about what he went through that built them to be resilient and start a business that some of the people in his circle said, I don't think this is actually going to work. But he proved him wrong just by saying, hey, I actually think this is going to work. I don't know a lot about the industry, but I'm going to find out a lot about it. It took a year and a half and I'm going to create something.
and now it's blossoming. And I think it's really important to go back to his history to talk about how he built the resilience to do that. He worked in the TV and film industry as a kid, as a teenager and a young man, and then he started his own business, COVID kind of kiboshed that, and now he's got a new business and it's absolutely amazing. So we're gonna talk to him, and here's the interview with Marcus O'Donovan, the founder of CO2U, which
you can find at co2u.com. Here's the interview, and I will talk to you after. Hey, Marcus, welcome to the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Oh, I love it. I love it. I'm pumped. I'm pumped as well. This is going to be a lot of fun because today we're going to be talking to you about sort of your lifestyle in a second, in a second, like your life and how you become an entrepreneur from a TV career and a TV and film career and what
that was like, why you made those decisions. And we're gonna cover a lot of things about, you know, sustainability in business, the challenges, the successes that you've seen and the challenges that you faced. We're gonna get into all of that stuff. It's gonna be a lot of fun. Before we do though, Marcus, why don't you just let people know who you So my name is Marcus O'Donovan. I am based in London in the UK, and I founded a business called CO2U.
We'll get into it more, but what CO2U essentially does is it provides gas refills for home carbonators. So if you have, for example, a SodaStream or an Arky or any kind of device that makes sparkling water at home, we send the gas to you. You use it, once you're done, we send more and we collect the empty cylinders at the end. And there's a whole host of stuff we can talk about where that kind of fits in within this
Yeah, absolutely. I think it's a really ingenious idea. You know, this seems to be a market that has really exploded over the last, I would say like five years I've seen it here in Canada anyway. Um, and, and so it's, I'm really interested in just seeing how you got into this, where, you know, and, and, and what made you decide to go into this. We're going to get into all that. It's going to be a lot of fun. I
have to ask, you weren't always this type of entrepreneur. You were a little bit of a different type of entrepreneur in terms of you were TV shows and film, kids' TV shows as well. How Well, I think for me, I was always someone that wanted attention. Maybe that's slightly winged as I've got a little bit older. But certainly when I was younger, I desperately wanted to be in a boy band, actually. That was my kind of dream. And
incredibly, I was kind of on that journey. And very long story, but I ended up doing this huge casting call for a guy called Simon Fuller, huge music mogul entrepreneur, and got signed into this kind of band TV show type thing here in the UK when I was very young, about 16, 17. And so I had this very exciting time, lots of money, sort of just a very slight taste of fame but not really.
And I kind of remained in that whole world trying to kind of make it in kind of television presenting, acting, that kind of thing, did a lot of TV shows. I guess that was the kind of I did a lot of big shows, but I was the actor that kind of, you know, if it was Doctor Who, you know, I'm coming around the corner and saying, Doctor, your tea's ready. It was like, not extra, but not exactly the star of the show either. So it got to about 10 years in and
I thought, hey, you know what? I think what I really want to do is sell. I think I was very interested in economics. I just didn't really understand what that was. I actually ended up in the food business. I started a business called Husk. This was a business that sold dry goods into hotels, pubs, and bars, so nuts, snacks, that kind of thing. And that was a rollercoaster of a business. Again, it was about a 10-year journey. Business went bust in COVID and then kind of rebuilt
itself. And somehow, eventually, I actually sold it last year to a business here called Canbrook Foods. So it was not a massive business and not some kind of huge tech exit, but a lot of experience selling physical products and just kind of making Huge mistakes, lots and lots of times. And that really set me up for my next business. I'm really fortunate that I had that journey to get so much wrong. I'm not saying I don't get things wrong now, because we
do, we all do. But it just gave me a wealth of knowledge and opportunity, which I didn't realize I had until I started CO2U. And I was like, oh, I already know how to do this and this and this. gotcha. So that's Let's go back that career shift between the TV and film to to the entrepreneurial sort
of career path. In Korean film, you're putting a lot of I guess uncomfortable situations in terms of from what I've heard anyway, I've never had experience it but auditioning is very uncomfortable where you're being judged right away and you have to think on your feet and acting you have to think on your feet, not sure how much improv you get to do in some of these shows but you do have to
like, make sure that you're ready for anything. Do you find that aspect of this type of industry, when you look at, you know, TV and film, compared to entrepreneurship, do you find that helped you prepare for the Yeah, I think what was incredibly helpful was all the rejection. Uh, and, and, um, as you say, being put in very difficult, uh, scenarios, being
asked to do difficult things. Um, you did a lot of casting calls, things like commercials where you just walk in, you don't really know what they want you to do. There's lots of people sitting there watching you. You got to perform. Um, you know, you're being told for this reason or that reason that you're not getting the role, not good looking enough, not tall enough, Um, and so personal sometimes too, Like it feels pretty personal. Yeah. Yeah, pick up a very thick
skin. And I think the real advantage that it gave me is the ability to confidently, to be outwardly confident when I'm speaking, or when I'm public speaking, or to walk into a room and feel, I don't know that it's, you know, my partner, she calls, she always tells me, I'm an extrovert, you're an extrovert. But for me, I just, I just love people. And I love, being
present. And I think, you know, I'm in my early 40s now, but I think as I sort of get older, I really look back and value a lot of these things that I was fortunate enough to be a part of. You know, even if I didn't become Tom Cruise, I had some
experience and some kind of journey within it. So to answer your question, yeah, that whole world of entertainment has been very valuable when it's come to pitching, selling, selling yourself, it's Yeah, and like you mentioned, rejection, and to be able to get over that rejection, it's experience, obviously, it can be tough sometimes, as we mentioned, What helps you get over that rejection, whether it be in a sale or whether it be at an audition, what helped you get
over that so that now in business, if something does happen, God forbid you do get rejected or you don't get a particular sale or something doesn't work out. How did you, how do you get over that? Because it happens a lot in the marine conservation industry. We don't get a grant or something we want, you know, say a bill gets through, it doesn't get through. We deal
with it, but we deal with, it can be very personal to us. And so a lot of people have problems with mental health throughout their careers because some of the things that, like the impact of the rejection could be a loss of a habitat or things like that. How does that work? I mean, for you, sometimes, well, a lot of times, the stakes were hard. You lose a job for TV and film or you lose a sale that's impacting on your business.
Not easily. Look, you're asking me these questions now in hindsight, having been through everything that I've been through. I think at the time I found these things extremely challenging. It doesn't surprise me that you mention people struggling with their mental health over these kinds of things. I get it. I think where I'm at now is that I don't approach things negatively. I'm very positive, very ambitious, but
I'm certainly a bit of a realist. I understand sometimes things can appear a little bit too good to be true, probably means they might be a bit too good to be true. And we're pitching to these big buyers at these restaurant chains or supermarkets, whatever they are, and they're giving us all these signals. But until the money's in the bank, as they say, you know, nothing's kind of
guaranteed. So now I find all this stuff a lot easier and I've learned as well that I think when I was an actor, being honest, I was desperate. I was very, very desperate. It was very, very hard. It was a lot of competition. We were all desperate and it was a desperate sense when you walked into the casting rooms and you sat outside and everybody, you could smell it in the air. And desperation is
not attractive. Nobody wants to be around or be pitched to by somebody that's desperately trying to sell them their product. So when it comes to selling something now, I just pull it right back. And it's kind of like, look, I've got this great thing. And it is a great thing. And we'll talk about CO2 and what it's doing and the growth and everything else. But it's like, if you want it, great. If Yeah. Yeah. No, but I mean, I think you're right. We're around the same age and, and
I think you're right. I think when you're young, it really, it really hits hard and, and you take it almost personally and you don't know how you're going to get over it as you grow older, you come like cautious, you see the signs ahead and you kind of like, okay, hold on. I got it. I got to tread lightly here. And I know. what to expect, what not to expect, the signs are all there, and you tend to get over a little
bit more, your emotions aren't as in it a little bit. Mind you, it could be a little bit different in terms of TV and film, because they're going after, like you mentioned, looks and personality, and Yeah, listen, there's a big difference between selling yourself and selling a product. Even if it's a product that you've created and you've designed, you can still pick it up and move it out
the way, but you can't do the same with yourself. So if you aren't what they want, you aren't what they want, and there's nothing you can do You know? Yeah. No, a hundred percent. Very, very personal. It's a tough, it's a tough business. And I, I still have many, many, many friends, um, you know, still, still in that business plugging away and, well,
Unbelievable. Yeah. I can imagine. I can, I can only imagine. But speaking of tough, you mentioned Husk closed down or really got affected during COVID, which was tough for a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of people out there, either lost their jobs or lost their businesses or their businesses were severely impacted. Another uncontrollable sort
of challenge that hits you. Did you realize at that time, it's like, okay, we don't know how long this is gonna last, but I need to, I need to sell, or I need to shift? I remember my accountant said to me, he said, oh, it's two weeks. It's two weeks. And because it was my accountant, I was like, oh, great. OK, that's fine. And I just went to bed that night. And I thought, well, it's going to be great, because the whole of London's locked down. And it'd be
fun for two weeks. It's something completely rare. Yeah, as it kind of snowboard on, I realized, oh, OK, this is going to change the world. And it has completely changed. It's changed everything. It was an extremely hard time for me. I know a lot of people did very, very well at that time. We did not. But what it did do for me was it it
kind of forced my hand to start something new. And I'd had this idea for CO2, you kind of, I didn't really have the idea, but I kind of, I thought about it briefly once, but it was kind of floating around. And I realized, you know, I just had, we just had a baby with my partner. So she and I were kind of like, you know, what are you going to do? Or what am I going to do? And
so it devastated the business I had at the time. But actually, eventually in came some of these government grants and things and I ended up being able to launch CO2 kind of around that time using some of my own money, but also a bit of the money that I got there. And so A blessing and a curse. It Well, yeah, which we're going to get into in just seconds. I can't wait to talk
about this, because I'm not familiar with this industry at all. And I think it's a really interesting one, especially from the
sustainability aspect. But it seems like you've always had that entrepreneurial Spirit in you even like as a TV and film artist you still You're you're advocating for yourself You're you're a little on your own you have a team and stuff and then you get into husk and now you're in co2 you What made you like during those times some of the hard times not go get a job and decide to start another That's a good question. I've always had a sort of a huge fear of, I mean, I was
naughty at school. I don't like being told what to do. So the idea that I would have to go and be a good boy and do what I was told, I just think I always that was never going to be for me. And it's been incredibly hard. I am not one of these entrepreneurs that hit big in their early 20s and made his millions and, you know, has since kind of built. That is not my journey whatsoever. And for anybody listening who is young and does want to become an entrepreneur, I'm
so passionate about it. I think when it works out for you, it will change your life in ways that I don't believe any job could ever. change your life, but make no mistakes about it. It's really hard. You see all this stuff on social media, whatever, these guys flashing the cash, whatever. If that even does exist, it's a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of people that are successful. And that's why you hear about it. You don't hear about the 99.8% of
the people that are really struggling. Me being, I haven't And I think that's the problem too, is we get distracted by the people who are doing this, sometimes not even, you know, not even succeeding, but they're kind of flashing this money when they probably
should be. But we have to, I don't think a lot of people realize how challenging entrepreneurial life is, which is why I'm going a little down this road, because I wanted to get the idea of what you've been through to get a company that is doing well with Husk, and then all of a sudden, due to things out of your control for a lot of people, it gets affected a
huge deal. And then to have the courage to start something else is amazing, because to get over one thing, and then to go to another, and to put all your heart and soul into another, It's risky. It is. And although sometimes a job is comfortable, which many of us have, and there's nothing wrong with it,
entrepreneurism is that challenge. But like you said, when you get to it, and you start to see that success, it's almost success in multiple ways, not just the purpose of your business, the bottom line, like the profit, but also your own, like the fact that you succeeded in something, the independence, the decision-making that you get to do and not control that. I've worked in both aspects and I think there's a big difference
in that. I can completely get where you're coming from when you finally get that taste of success, even if it's not a huge success And it's not by any means to knock regular employment. For sure. If it wasn't for regular employment, I wouldn't have been able to have done what I've done. My partner works in corporate, in finance. And for a lot of this journey, she's been the breadwinner. She's supported me and she's believed in me and believed in
the process. And had I not had her and had that, it might not have been possible. So I'm by no means kind of belittling or suggesting, like you say, that there's anything wrong with having a quote-unquote normal job. I'm just saying for me, never gonna Never gonna happen, baby. Never gonna happen. Yeah, it definitely goes by personality a lot, right? And I think that's wonderful. Let's get into CO2U. This is a really interesting
concept. It's a great business model. Can you give us a description of what the business is? Yeah, sure. Very, very simply, I think I said at the start of the podcast, if you're making sparkling water in your home, which a lot of people are now, and we'll talk about why, because a lot of it is to do with sustainability, of course, then you're going to need CO2. And here in the UK, there's one major supplier of this product called SodaStream, owned
by PepsiCo. And I was a big fan of that business, and my partner bought me a SodaStream when I was using it. I loved it. And it kind of, the thing that was kind of eye-opening for me about the whole thing about making sparkling water in your home was that I drink a lot of sparkling water. So I used to carry, we're in central London, I used to carry these big two-liter bottles, like six of them, back from the supermarket. And I'd open them up. And once you open them, of course, they start
going flat. You sort of drink a lot. They take up a lot of room. And suddenly, here I am with this kind of sparkling water on tap. So, look, how the business started, because you're going to ask me that question, I will tell you, was Sodastream had an offer where you could get the gas delivered to your house. But incredibly, when you finished using it, you had to box it back up and you had to take it down and carry it down to like a click and collect location to get back to them and get
your money refunded, this, that, and the other. there must be a way in which this could all be done in your doorstep. And so that's what I said about building with CO2. And I'm so glad that I did it, but I have to say it wasn't straightforward. There was a very, very good reason why that wasn't possible. And it was simply that the Korea companies won't collect empty cylinders or use cylinders from people because
they believe in some way that they might be dangerous. So there was a good year, year and a half where I thought the thing isn't going to work and I'm never going to be able to convince these career companies to work with me on this. But man, it was a crazy, crazy journey. It just started with me buying some cylinders and I sold on Amazon before and I looked, I thought, well, if I buy a thousand cylinders and I put them on Amazon and see if they sell and gone. Just like that? Very,
very quickly. I sold these things. I thought, okay, If I can sell a thousand and sell them quick, there's something in this. This has got to be a thing. So I did two things. I'll tell you about some of the disaster, and then we can talk about some of the success. But I decided, I thought, hey, look, I'm going to need my own machine, I think like almost out of vanity more than anything else. So I had some stupid names for the company, for the idea.
One of them was Fizzy Banter, terrible name. And my friends in marketing and I met up with him one evening and he said, oh, what are you up to? I explained, I said, I'm going to call it Fizzy Banter. He texted me that evening, he said, look, I cannot in good faith allow you to start a new business and call it this. meet me tomorrow and I'll give you your name and I'll give you your logo, free of charge." Lovely guy called Ardy. Anyway,
he went to me and the next day he said, listen, this is your business. It's called CO2U. And I was like, of course it is, because it's exactly what this is all about. CO2U, yeah, makes total sense. And, you know, the whole thing was born. So, originally I had these machines to make sparkling water at home, so I ordered those and I ordered some test cylinders from this manufacturer in China and brought them all back to the UK, tried everything out, it was brilliant. So
ordered the machines and ordered the cylinders. And this was around the time of COVID. So the first cylinders turned up and I was so excited and I shot this video and I told all my friends and I sent out machines to all these different friends. I didn't really get much of a response from anybody. I thought, well, it's kind of odd. I put the machines on Amazon. They started selling. I was like, okay, awesome. And they were selling well. I started getting people returning the machines. I
thought, What's going on here? So I rang my friend Paul. I said, hey, how are you getting on with that machine? And he said, oh, well, actually, I couldn't get it to work. I said, what do you mean? Did you just screw the cylinder in? And he said, yeah, I know how it works, but I cannot get it to work. Anyway. After speaking to a number of other different people, lots of people had problems working
the machine. I thought, I don't believe this. These guys who've made the machine, they've given me a faulty product. It's over before it even started. Because I'd invested about £70,000, all the money that I could put into this thing I put in. I was like, it's dead. And it was terrible. I went to the warehouse the next day, started trying out all these machines, and they weren't working properly. Some were working a bit, some weren't. So I was tearing my hair out for a couple of weeks, arguing
with this machine manufacturer. Look, what's going on? These machines don't work. They said, Marcus, we're the largest producer of these machines globally. Here is the video of your product going down the production line, being tested. They always work. We don't ever
have these problems. So I was going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And in the end, after having been assured by my cylinder supplier that they'd given me the exact same cylinder that we'd used during testing, turns out that because it was COVID, they'd sourced an identical part for the cylinder, the valve, that's exactly the same. There's nothing different about it. But actually, when we measured it, it was about a third of a millimeter out in its design
or whatever, and it affected these machines. And the worst part about it was I had 7,000 cylinders on the water coming from this same manufacturer. And I thought, well, that's it. it's over. Anyway, long story short, the cylinders arrived, and they'd used the correct part on these other ones. It had just been this brief little thing that they'd done, and they hadn't been honest about it, and
everything worked. And then from that moment onwards, It has been for the most part an extremely exciting, enjoyable journey where we then grew 500% in year two and we've doubled in size ever since. I've gone through a few rounds of investment. I've been very, very lucky. First investor I was put in front of, Anthony Bolton. And he said, all right, I'll invest. And then the second investor I got in front of, a year and a half later, Louis, he
said, yeah, I want to bank you. I want to invest. And then Recently, at the end of last year, the business is growing and growing and growing and I can't finance the growth. So I said to my manufacturer, oh, you know, the problem is I just can't afford to buy the amount of cylinders I need to buy from you. And he said, all right, well, you
know, we'll have a think about payment terms, whatever. Anyway, they came back the next day and within about A week and a half, I'd sold a small amount of the company to Victory, which is one of the largest gas cylinder suppliers globally, firefighting equipment suppliers. So yeah, that's where we're at today. It continues It wasn't a fact of people weren't buying. It was the fact that you just couldn't produce enough ahead of time to satisfy the demand. So
you just need that little extra of investment to scale up. Is that what Yeah, 100%. And the frustrating thing is that The shipping time's very difficult, as you might well know. If you're bringing in a product from the other side of the world, there's been a lot of problems with the Yeah, it was terrible then. And then the Suez Canal is currently shut. Everything's going down the coast of Africa. And then you got the pirates. So
it's been, it can be quite challenging. So just keeping up with, it's been Very, very exciting to be in a business where it's about keeping up with demand. I've never been in that situation before in my previous business, begging people to buy my product. Now it's, look, this thing is growing and it's growing quick. Can you supply? And, you know, we've got seven or eight quite substantial corporate contracts with big, well-known companies that we're now
working with and selling to. And yeah, so I'm That's amazing. That's amazing. Yeah. You know, obviously, this is a show about how to protect the environment, how to protect the ocean. Um, so obviously, you know, this is, this is a at home soda, like you're, you're basically, these are, this is CO2 for soda machines, right? So people creating sparkling water or maybe their own soda through SodaStream or anything. It works with essentially all the different brands. Is that
Yeah, of course. So we cover all the brands and the sparkling water taps. So we've actually got a, I mean, I'll tell you a crazy thing in a minute, but we've got a new larger cylinder that powers sparkling water taps in kind of offices and restaurants and that kind of thing. The sustainability thing is crazy. We must talk about it because it is not something that I, It wasn't my reason or my
why for getting into this, but it's just a massive. You see, I see a lot of these businesses, I think there's a huge amount of talk about being green, but there's a lot of greenwashing that I see, a lot of companies trying to kind of say that they're doing something good. And you're like, well, I personally don't see that, or I question a lot of that. But I just knew as a byproduct of what we're doing that it was incredibly good for the planet. Our enemy, if we have to
have one, is traveled water. So any water that is being moved from A to B, that doesn't need to go from A to B, because in the Western world, pretty much all over the world now, we have a tap, right? So we have water right there. We don't need to fill it into a vessel. and not only put it in a disposable plastic vessel, but then put it onto a truck, which then burns fuel to move it from here to here. It doesn't make any sense how
this whole thing has happened at all. And the worst part being, of course, is that so much of this plastic ends up in the sea, which is just heartbreaking, right? Well, even the plastic that's made is a petroleum product in itself. So It's made from petroleum, and so making it is dirty. Drinking it is bad for you because of all the plastic material that comes in. And then disposing, as you mentioned, is
not good as well. So all parts of it, from the creation all the way to Yeah, and I understand there's a need for single-use drinks and a huge demand. It's very interesting. Frustratingly, there's a business we're working with, very, very well-known business here in the UK that I can't talk about, but they're really trying to reduce the single-use plastics within their business, and they've got some great ideas. But it's just a really interesting byproduct of of what
we're doing. And I always say that for my business, what we push is convenience. It's getting the gas to your door, collecting it, making it easy for you. So that's what we're all about. But we don't shout loud enough about what we're also doing for the environment. And I think I felt like, not that I couldn't, but like I said, I see so many people doing this. And it not being that genuine, I was kind of like, nah, I think I'm going to focus on something
else and just be proud of the byproduct. But I must just quickly tell you about this incredible thing that's happening here. We have discovered that all of these sparkling water taps in these offices, all across London and the UK, and actually most of Europe, are being powered by a steel cylinder that's a disposable steel cylinder that cannot be recycled. So many of these steel cylinders, and I'm talking tens of thousands, are filled, bought once, used, and essentially thrown
away. And that completely blew my mind. So we have created an aluminum refillable cylinder. And we're now bringing that to market this year. We've got it here. And we've just started selling it. And we're working with lots of brands. It's compatible with brands here like ZipTap, Billy Taps, Aqualibra, this kind of thing. And a lot of these companies are talking about sustainability. And we're like, well. Steel
cylinders are not very sustainable. You might be helping people to make sparkling water from the tap, but you're now doing this. This sustainability thing is, yeah, like I said, it's a wonderful byproduct of everything that we're doing. And it's nice to be running a business that is doing really well, making money in itself and for me, but also feeling like I'm doing something good. Because there's lots of ways of making money that, you know, you could
debate probably perhaps weren't that good. But I feel like I'm doing something with my life that I can look back on one day and say, you know what? I helped. I Well, and I think you mentioned something really interesting to me is the fact of convenience. A lot of the times, anything you do that's sustainable tends not to be convenient. You know what I mean? Like even just like you just talk about reusable diapers,
not necessarily that convenient. You know, you have to wash them. You have to like, you know, you're basically literally getting your hands dirty more than you want to instead of just disposing of picking up a plastic water bottle or a an energy drink that's in a plastic water bottle or something that's that's, you know, you want as a convenience in a convenience store as we call them here, our corner stores. to just get up, pay for
it, walk away, your thirst is quenched. Having something that you have built that is based on convenience, right? Where you don't need to go out and buy single use things. You can have something delivered to your home, the cylinders delivered to your home. So you know, and you're taking it from the tap. It just ends up being so much more convenient.
And a lot of the times it goes against sort of the, it goes against the idea that Being in sustainable being more environmental think of the environment doesn't necessarily mean you're not being convenient It doesn't mean you're out convenience. You're you're actually being you can be convenient I think it just takes a little ingenuity a little thought to help in that respect And and I think your business model
does that you know, so so that's awesome. Congratulations. That's that's really cool without even probably without even knowing it right like as you mentioned he's like I just wanted to get this business because it was it was helping you, you know, like in in your your want and need for this type of service and then seeing other people having that service
and they loving it. And then so it grows like that and it's being convenient and it's helping people get away from single use plastics and it's helping people using tap water and just maybe augmenting that experience a little bit of tap water to include a little bit of carbonation. So I love that aspect. And I think it's, we don't always have to tell people all about sustainability. I think sometimes, as you mentioned with the greenwashing, but I think some people are getting tired of like, oh
yeah, we need to have a sustainability. So maybe some people are just, they don't want to hear it all the time. They just want what they want. You know, if they want a soda stream and they want their carbonated water, they And then I, and they just get- But also just, just, just, just be authentic, man. You know, just don't jump on the bandwagon. Like, you know, if you're doing something that is sustainable or helpful and you've got a story and you've got a, a reason, then tell us and
show us. But, you know, I'm not going to name businesses or names, but not just some big company then, you know, trying to like, I want to, I want to, I want to say some, but anyway. Yeah, just like, like, I think, I think we're all getting a bit tired of nonsense and everyone's desperate for authenticity. And when it comes to this, yeah, there's been, there has been a lot of,
a lot of nonsense. So yeah, like I said, it's nice to have a business where I know we're genuinely making a difference without even trying, because what we're doing is stopping people from buying plastic bottled water, which Yeah, 100%. It's huge. The amount that you're selling all over the Well, we have warehouses in London, one in Dublin and also one in Hamburg in Germany. So we do have the ability to supply into the EU. We are just about to launch in the Netherlands. So,
Yeah, yeah. We'll have to see. I kind of like to run before I can walk. And I think this year I've kind of just don't want to sort of trap myself, but I've got too many ideas, too many things that I want to do. So at the moment, we're just rebranding. We're about to relaunch our entire look and feel. We've been working with this incredible team a marketing design agency called Boundless Brand Design here in London. They kind of do a lot of the big drinks,
brands, that kind of thing. So that's very, very exciting. And so that's been, well, that's the focus for January. I mean, I think it's the curse of an entrepreneur to have too many ideas, right? I think every entrepreneur has that. It's a matter of prioritizing and planning it out the certain way so you don't- I got to tell you as well, 99.9% of Absolutely terrible. I'm not going to embarrass myself and tell you some of the crazy, crazy, terrible
business ideas that I've had that I genuinely thought were great at the time. And now I look back and I'm like, what was I thinking? We talked at the beginning about resilience and confidence. For me, it's about having not just the drive, but the confidence to have an idea and back yourself and go for it. Because you get a lot of people that will tell you it's not going to work, or you don't really know what you're doing. I had quite a few people questioning this idea, and they were like, Gasp?
What do you know about Gasp? And I'm like, well, I'll find it out. I mean, we have built in the UK We have, so far as I know, the only major refilling plant that we have built here in Chelmsford in the UK, we can fill 7 million soda cylinders in a year. built, quote unquote, this thing myself. Not
that I did anything, I stood there with a cup of coffee and watched. But what I mean is, I was able to pull together the teams of people and the equipment and everything, even though I didn't even fail everything to do with science when I was at school. I didn't understand a huge amount of what was going on. It's that it's just the kind of the sheer grit and determination. You're like, I'm going to do this. Yeah, no matter what, I'm going to make it work.
I'm going to find a way and I think that is that is the essence of the entrepreneur is it's broken. Everyone goes, well, that's just the way it is. And that's it. And you go, no, I'm not having it. I'm not having that. I'm going to fix it. And I'm going to show you that I'm going to fix it. Even with people laughing at you and everything else. And you know what? Maybe you won't. And that's all good. But that's when you dust yourself off and go and try and fix something else.
I love it and I and I think this goes back to our conversation on on the rejection. It's sometimes when people reject your idea You're almost just like I kind of want to prove you different, you know, maybe it won't work But I kind of want to see where this goes. I've done that before I've just been like somebody's like no, that's never gonna work That's a stupid idea like That makes me want to do it a little bit more, just because you don't think it's going to
happen. You know, it's like, I mean, think about this a little longer. It seems to be triggering some of you and I'll be like, oh, okay, let's, let's, let's see how this can work out, whether it works out or not. It's just like, at least I followed through and see, I mean, entrepreneurs are problem solvers, right? There's a problem at hand usually. And they like, okay, this is the way to solve it. Is it profitable? Maybe it's not, but
maybe it's a worthwhile service for a nonprofit. Whatever that may be, an entrepreneur is a problem solver. And I think that's an important part. Sometimes we're right, sometimes we're not. And some ideas are extreme and out there, and some ideas hit well when it hits. But you have to go through that resilience. You have to be resilient and to say, hey, some ideas are going to work and some ideas aren't. This idea seems to be exploding and working.
When you realized about the sustainability, have you since then have you thought about okay how can we look at what we do and make it a little bit more environmentally friendly. Like, do you find you, you can identify things a little bit more in your, whether it be supply chain or business practices where you're like, you know what, maybe we can do this. It wouldn't cost like a terrible amount of money. It wouldn't affect our business that
much, but it would be good. And it would kind of double down on not necessarily the messaging of sustainability, but we could say, Hey, we're even Yeah, sure. I thought about it a lot. Because I think that if you are going to make sustainability claims, then you have to be able to back them up. And like I said, we're not shouting about it, but we
do claim this sustainability. I think one of the biggest things we didn't have to do, that we did do, was we actually removed, well, we've removed plastic from our entire, um, process, but also that's technically not true because we, we removed, uh, cardboard, uh, completely because I say we removed plastic. We actually, uh, have created a number of different custom made hard plastic reusable cases
to transport our product in back and forth. So they're always being reused, reused, reused, reused until eventually if they do break, then we'll give them to recycling. But that was one thing that was very expensive, we didn't have to do, that we did, that has definitely made us more sustainable. Because cardboard, my original idea was, look, we'll keep reusing the cardboard boxes, but unfortunately it doesn't... It doesn't last as long. They don't last. So you maybe get two rounds
out of them, but then people complain. And yes, people, this is the difficult thing about the sustainability journey. People want to be sustainable, but very few people want to be sustainable if it, if it affects them. They're like, no, no, you know, you should like, you know, when that thing, when you spill that thing over there, you should, you know, mop it up and not use a paper towel or whatever. And then it happens to them and they grab the paper towels and it's just, you
see what I mean? Oh my God, yes. So you realize there's a value there that is as much as it is. I was talking to another entrepreneur, she has a a clothing brand, it's a woman's nightwear business. And she's built this incredibly sustainable business model, every last element of it, where they make their own cotton, all this kind of stuff. But in the end, what she's found is that you know, people want something sustainable, but, you know, are they willing to pay what she needs them
to pay? So it's about trying to find that middle ground where you're not just sustainable, but business is sustainable too. You just got to do your bit. It's ultimately up to governments, really, if they want to crack these problems. It annoys me. I see so many easy wins that we just don't... where we just don't get things done. And that's where the change will have to come from eventually. But as I said, I feel like I'm contributing something positive with this business
No, absolutely. I mean, when you have a successful business and it continues to grow and you know you're doing something right, just from an ethical and environmental standpoint, I think it's really great. I also think Experimentation is going to be needed by businesses. You know, like, like you said, you tried the cardboard. It didn't work. People didn't like it. It's you, you have to balance the demand and you have to balance what your consumer is willing to, to
put into it as well as what you're willing to put into it. I, the question, you know, the question I have is like, when you, do you tell the consumer what you're trying to do? So say when the cardboard happened, do you tell that and then say, oh yeah, just by the way, as this didn't seem to work out in terms of durability, we went to this type of plastic mold, reusable plastic mold that we can use a lot more. It's a lot more permanent in terms of usage and stability, and it'll be a lot
easier for you. Do you get feedback from customers being like, oh, this Well, yeah, we did. This is what's difficult in business is communication and messaging. You've got a very small window to get any piece of information about your company, your brand, across to your audience. So you've got to choose and you've got to choose smart because having 10 different things that you want them to
know, they're not... Our website, you know, if you look at Microsoft Clarity, which is a software that allows you to watch people as they come onto your website and see where their cursor goes, you know, you've got maybe 15 to 25 seconds they're going to be on your website, and then they're gone. So you've got a very small window to do these things. So yes, we did do a little bit of consumer testing, and we got very, very positive feedback when we introduced these hard cases. But
it was kind of common sense. And I've never really enjoyed that whole, like, creating lots and lots of packaging continually, cardboard. We did a lot of it in food, a lot of plastic packs for nuts and things like that. And it never made me feel great watching it on the production line. I kind of didn't really want to be a part of that anymore. I understand why it's necessary, but I didn't want Well, and again, that's why it's your business. You get to make those decisions and
say, hey, look, we're going to go a different route. And I really like that. I'm someone who has never really had a SodaStream and not really familiar with the process as a consumer. So is it, you know, the person orders the amount of cylinders that they want. They get it within a couple of days, one or two days. They install it into whatever mechanism that they're using it for, because I assume there's a number of different ones. Once they're done with it,
how long does each bottle on average last? I know it's based The cylinder lasts forever, but it depends on how regularly you use it. The industry says 60 litres of sparkling water. I say more like 40-45 if you want proper sparkling water, I think is the reality. it works out as very good value, actually. But it's more about the ability to have sparkling water there right
when you need it, as often as you need it. Because obviously, if you've purchased it in a bottle, as I said, once you take that lid off, then yeah, you've got a limited amount of time to drink it. So it's about having that sparkling water on tap. And if you love sparkling water as much as I do, then it's a game changer. I mean, I got into sparkling water mainly some time ago because I like my food. I was putting on weight and I thought, well, if I'm going to eat too much, It's
probably not great if I'm drinking too much. So I was, what can I drink that's zero calorie that I enjoy? And it turns out I just love sparkling water. So I just, I drink it all the time. I'm actually drinking sparkling water now, but it does have a little bit of squashing. Okay, Yeah, no, hey, it works. It works well. And does sparkling
water fill you up more than regular water just because of the carbonation? So you feel full, say if you don't want to eat a snack or something, you want to have that instead. Some people say drink a lot of water if you don't want to eat much because it'll fill you up. Because of I don't think so. I'd love to say that it does. I think that would be disingenuous. No, I'm not sure that's true. But I think, you know, look, what's great is things like getting children
to drink water. Like at the moment, my daughter's five and you know how this is. It's pretty easy when they're younger. But as kids get older, they get more fussy and they want something with flavour in it. being able to put some theater into the process, then being able to use the machine, press the button, the gas goes in. There's bubbles and making it fun, it's really helpful to then get them to consume it because it's desperately important.
We need two litres at least of water as adults a day and that's quite a lot of liquid to be consuming. So that's another really positive thing that we're a part of. And I've got some ideas here in the UK where I'd really like to try and encourage schools to get these machines and allow kids who can bring in their bottled water to be able to gas it up when they get into school, that kind of thing. We've got a lot of ideas like this. And like
Nice and slow. I love it. I love it. Slowest pro. Slowest pro, exactly. This has been a wonderful conversation. People can go to co2u.com to find out more. obviously in and in around the UK people can get this and so I highly recommend that you do and for more information I'll put the link in the show notes and in the description so people can can get access
to it. I really appreciate you know your transparency and going through a lot of the questions and answering a lot of the questions I have you know about the the sort of the journey of an entrepreneur, you know, I think is really important, especially in a very transparent way to just be like, look, this is fun and it can be really rewarding, but it could also be challenging and difficult at times. And I really appreciate that transparency because I don't think we
see that enough, especially online. So we definitely appreciate that. And of course, we appreciate the work you do with making things more sustainable for our planet and for our oceans and for our water supply. And we all know how Wasteful that can be in some time. So being able to utilize tap water make a little bit more exciting I think is really great. So I do appreciate that. The last question I have for you is people out here, you know, in
my audience are very creative. There's a lot of entrepreneurs out there or, you know, entrepreneurs that may not have that, they may not have that business idea right away. They may not have it right now that will really bring them over, put them over the edge. what would be the overall arching advice that you would give them to help them continue on Oh, what a question. Well, don't rush out to do something just because you want to start a
business. If you... If you have an idea and it's in a space that you're not familiar with, it's worth going into industry and trying to find out a little bit more about it. But look, if you're anything like me or many of the other entrepreneurs out there and you're hungry and ambitious and you just want to do this, nothing I can say to you is going to stop you going out and doing your crazy idea, hopefully fantastic idea. But if it's anything like me, probably crazy and
getting it on with that anyway. So look, I guess if I can give any kind of advice, just remember, it's all about the journey and nothing, nothing truly great is truly great if there isn't some some difficulty getting there, you know. It's never satisfying just to be handed everything onto a plate. You've got to earn it. And if you talk to a lot of people, particularly these big entrepreneurs who've made tons and tons of money, they always say they're
like, oh man, the best bit was the journey. That was the best bit. So remember that, particularly when it's hard because Yeah, nine times out of 10. It gets really tricky. But I love it. Thank you so much, Marcus. We really appreciate you coming on the show. I know it's late in the UK for you, so I do appreciate your time here. Well, and with that, I'll let you go to bed. But honestly, thank you so much for doing this. Love to have you back on to find out what's happening with
CO2 in a few months or a few years. And it'd be a lot of fun. So thank you so much for what you do. And thank you for coming on and sharing that with us. Thank you, Andrew. Thank you, Marcus, for joining me on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. What
a fantastic interview. What a fun time to get to know an entrepreneur who wants to start something to provide somebody with convenience that likes sparkling water, to provide somebody that does not want to have to go to the store, buy something that's unsustainable, or just buy something that when you open the bottle, all the carbonation goes away once you
stop drinking it and you just put it down. You want something that's on demand, very convenient, comes to your house, and it works with a lot of different types of apparatuses or products. And so it really fits the perfect business model in this case. And obviously, it's not an easy thing to do to build
a business. And we talked about that. We talked about how the ability to be rejected from a personal level in in TV and film as it gets personal they look at your looks and the way you act and if you're you don't like that they don't like you then they don't like you for the role but then going to a business and being like hey we made that product may not be for us and really understanding how to not only just get over rejection or deal with rejection but also overcome
it so that you can continue to do sales you can continue to grow your business and and you can continue to come up with ideas and develop those ideas
to have a successful one like CO2U. This interview really touches a lot, not a lot of what we normally touch upon when we talk about how to protect the ocean, but like I said, we have to rely on businesses now more than government because the government in the US, in Canada, other places may not be environmentally focused and so we need to make sure that our businesses are doing what they can to be sustainable and
to fight and really it's just a matter of finding it out so if you are a UK listener and you love sparkling water I highly recommend that you go to see to you they're not sponsoring this podcast I invited them on because I thought that was a really cool thing so I highly recommend that you go there and just go to C2U, C02U.com. I'll put the link in the show notes and the description. That's it for today's episode.
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us. And I want to thank you so much for joining us on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Have a great day. We'll talk to you next time and