Working From Home Without Going Crazy #182

this is still the world we live in? So much has changed, but like at the same time, I look outside and I see how beautiful it is outside, like it's spring now, and there's so many things that haven't changed, you know, like cherry blossoms look incredible, by the way, Thank you dude, don't they It's it's our favorite like three weeks of the year basically when those two trees blossomed like that. But but yeah, you know, you see

that happen. You see nature kind of continuing on, and it's it's this weird juxtaposition where like everything seems fine, the world is carrying on as as as usual, but at the same time, like so much of our lives

has altered significantly. You know. It's funny. It makes me I don't want to get too heavy, but I feel like that's that's typically what people how people describe experiencing the death of a close loved one, Like the world around you continues on as normal, and it doesn't feel like it should it feels like things can stop because of something that major has happened. And I feel like that's kind of how we're all feeling to a certain extent with the impact of of coronavirus and kind of

how it's affecting everything. And I don't know about you, man, but I feel like I'm waking up in the morning and just the first thought in my mind is that I just dream this or is it actually happening. And it's actually happening every every morning. It takes me like five seconds to realize, No, No, that's still real life. Yeah,

that's the world we're living in right now. So I mean, and a part of that world is working from home, Like many of us are still working from home, and I think many of us might even continue to work from home. So you know, we're gonna talk about why it's important for us to do this. We're gonna talk about how we can do this effectively. And I'm excited that we can give our listeners something that's a little more timely like this on a Wednesday episode, which are

typically a little more timeless episodes. Right, Like, it's it's content that's evergreen, it's gonna be there and it's gonna be good forever. But we I think this is gonna be one that will stand the test of time for sure. But it's also one that I think people will be excited to hear, given what we're living through right now. Yeah, there's a lot of hot takes when it comes to money, Matt.

That's not our show though, typically, right we're we're usually just about kind of the principles, the time tested principles of money and how people can apply that to our

their lives were solid, right exactly. But yeah, before we get into kind of all the specifics of how people can implement a work from home regimen that works for them right now, I wanted to ask you quickly, do you think that because of the massive shift for so many people to working from home, do you think that's gonna lead to a real shift in the future of working from home, like our employers going to approach work from home completely differently a year, two or three down

the road based on kind of what's happening now. Well, yes, that's the answer. And I know why you're asking me this too, because we were talking about this article not too long ago. But the expert there was talking thing about how this is a change that they were expecting to see over maybe a decade, right Like just with the with the technologies that they're expecting companies to make the investments in and to transition their workforce to have

that ability to work from home. More and more employees are asking for that. They want more flexibility. And but given the current economic crisis that that we've seen ourselves in not just economic but first and foremost the health crisis that this is that has required us to to stay at home and do our work, to not be

around others. And so because of that, they're seeing a scramble right as companies are trying to make sure that they have the software, of the infrastructure, everything that they need to have aligned and set up in order for their employees to work from home. And it's not just about having a laptop, but they're talking about how certain sectors of business they require higher security when it comes to you know, them logging in and getting the work done,

like a VPN or something exactly to the network at work. Yeah, and and so those networks, for instance, weren't typically designed to handle all of their workforce being at home and using that VPN. But now that's changed because it's you know, it's basically a necessity at this point. And so yeah, I think a lot of businesses are making those investments.

And these are sort of like one time things, right, Like, if you're gonna go ahead and take the step to work towards allowing your your employees to work from home, why not continue to offer that to your employees assuming that they're able to get the work done. So, I mean, yeah, I do think it will be something that's here to stay.

What are your thoughts. Yeah, I think a lot of businesses were kind of reticent to test it out, and now they're kind of being forced to test it out, and so I think they will begin to see that that working from home isn't gonna damage productivity like they

maybe thought it was. I think that was one of the biggest reasons one of the biggest hangups for employers was, well, are my employee is still going to do the work that that they're supposed to do if they're working from home, or are they gonna take you know, extended lunches or you know, walks to the park or whatever it may be. And I think we're going to see that productivity doesn't really go down when people work at home, and in fact,

oftentimes it goes up. And I agree. Plus, they are making this massive and vestment right now, and because they're kind of being forced to do so, I think those added levels of flexibility are going to remain the biggest question for me is whether people after you know, working at home five days a week for weeks on end, are going to be desperate to get back into the office, and whether that's whether that's going to be the whether it's gonna be workers themselves who are saying, you know what,

working from home is great, Maybe one or two days a week, let me back in the office. Yeah. I like that camaraderie. I want the water cooler, I want that creativity, the collaboration. Yeah. Well, I mean that's part of why we're calling this episode, you know, working from home without going crazy, because not all of us have taken the steps necessary to ensure that we're able to do that in a way that's effective, in a way

that preserves our sanity. And so if you haven't taken those steps, then working from home may not work out for you. So that's why we're going to talk about this, because even if your employer offers it. You need to make sure that you are taking the steps yourself personally to ensure that this is gonna work for you, no doubt, buddy. All Right, real quick before we get into it. The beer we're having on this episode is called Same As It Ever Was, which is a little ironic because things

are not the same. They're not the same as all was. Yeah, but this is a beer from one of our favorite local breweries, Monday Night Brewing. Matt. You went by there the other day to pick this up, mostly to show support right now, and also because their beers are delicious. Yeah,

they're friends of ours. They make amazing beer. But yeah, do the you know, the restaurants, the breweries around here, they've really been taking a beating when it comes to just all the closures, and so maybe if you're out running errands, you know you're out doing your your grocery run once a week. And uh, in this case, I swung by the brewery they had to go, canes ready to go, and I was happy to to support them. But um, yeah, Same as It Ever was kind of

weird a Talking Head song. These are weird times that

we're in. It's it's kind of appropriate. True. True, All right, Matt, let's get onto the topic of hand working from home without going crazy and uh, you know, working from home, like we said, is awesome, but a lot of us probably do feel a little bit differently about it, right that maybe the first couple of days feel great, and then we start to settle into a routine and maybe not even a healthy routine when we're working from home, and when we're forced to do so full time, then

it can become even harder. So we felt that this was pertinent to talk about. Uh So that people could work from home and be semi productive at minimum. And it's gonna feel different, for sure, but there are specific ways that you can make it work and likely even thrive right now, even in an environment that's completely changed, a work environment that is very different than it was just a month ago. I will say too, I think it's important Matt. You have been working from home for years.

You've practically mastered the art of working from home. I think you're gonna have a lot of advice on on this episode. Oh sure, I wouldn't say I've necessarily mastered it, but you know, I do have a lot more experience, for sure than to work from home, Ninja, dude. Over ten years I've worked from home. So but you know, more folks than ever are having to work from home and continue at the pace of work that they're used

to doing in a traditional office. And the problem is that most of us don't have home offices right or if we do, they're not, you know, equipped in such a way to allow for a ton of productivity. But even if you do have a suite set up at home, a lot of us have kids at home as well, including us right now, Like we're recording at my dining room table, and you know, I can hear the girls in the background at don't think the mics can pick it up, but they're there because they're not in school.

And so while like it's awesome, I love my girls, I love the kid us, they are likely going to distract us from the other myriad tasks we have at hand, from some of that work that we do have to get done. So how do we work from home and

do it well? And that's what we're gonna talk about today, man, Yeah, Matt, I recently heard about a couple who is in New York City who both used to go into the office, but now they live in literally a three square foot apartment and they're both trying to work from home and live there and sleep there and eat there and go to the bathroom there, you know, like it just gets awkward, especially if you're doing it with your partner, uh that

they can get weird, especially in a small space. So so it's important to figure out for for that couple and for the rest of us, because we really just don't know how long the coronavirus will continue to reak havoc on our society, Like how long until the curve gets spent and we're all back to at least a

state of you know, heightened awareness but somewhat normalcy. So let's specifically talk about how individuals can work well from home and this time we we can't continue with the system that hampers our ability to actually get work done and that we are recording at your dining room table.

But very soon, very very soon, we're going to hopefully next week, move down into your Airbnb apartment, the apartment you were reating short term, and that's going to be kind of our new podcast recording space, and that's where we're gonna work from when when we're creating content for

our podcast. That's gonna be huge, right. And I think if somebody does have a suite set up like that where they do have this other space maybe that they're they were using for something else, hopefully they can repurpose it and use it to work from home, you know, during this time. I think it's gonna be a big

help to us as we try to get things done. Yeah, this is a little podcast, uh personal information, right, But like you know, you and I we've we've mentioned how we've kind of come to a crossroads and we're looking to take the podcast kind of to the next level. And so part of that, we're going out on a limb a little bit and we're going to occupy that basement space where we can have a full time recording

set up where the sound will be better. Instead of in my echoe dining room, We're gonna have an actual acoustically treated space. Man. I'm so looking forward to that.

I'm still looking forward to the future of the podcast, creating more content and just you know, having a space where when you're able to have a space, you can take it a little more seriously, I think, and up until now, this has been something that you and I have sort of done on the side, uh, sort of been a labor of love, and we're looking forward to kind of growing up into our like our our big boy podcast bridges what I'm saying, Yeah, exactly, yeah, and

and so yeah, we're taking this advice personally as we kind of go through some of these things. So while we're still getting set up, we do think that being down there is going to help us avoid some of these distractions, and it's going to help us create better work. And I know that's what we're all kind of looking for.

How do we still manage to turn out good work in a time like this where things feel a lot different, and in particular, our work at home spaces might feel like they're hampering us from that ability to Yeah, and this is also important because you know, while we're at home, we just have a new set of distractions to tempt us from doing our work while at home, right, Like, just aside from technology, I'm just thinking about the fridge, like the TV, Like a lot of us have TVs

in our places, and even and not even just like the fun things that you kind of want to do like eat or watch TV. But sometimes folks are like you see something that needs to be fixed because you're at home way more often and you're like, oh, that's a chore I need to do, and it's easy to get pulled off into all these little things that are

are calling for our attention. And so hopefully through some of these tips and strategies that we're gonna talk about later in this episode, you yourself will be able to become a better worker, a more efficient worker, and one who can focus on tasks and knock them out while you're sitting at home. Yeah, and while you're on the

clock put down the laundry. It's you know, that can wait, because I think it is just it's it's more tantalizing to try to get some chores done while we're you know, quote unquote supposed to be working when we're working from home. But yeah, I think there are ways that can make it less painful and just a more joyful experience to work from home, Matt. So, so let's get into some of those practical steps so we can take right after

the break. All right, Joe, we're back from the break, and you know, later in the show, we're gonna talk about some specific steps we can take, some things we can do that apply more to families and especially if you have kids at home. But for now, let's talk about some important physical steps that everyone can take in order to enjoy working from home more and to also be more productive. We kind of tease to this there right before the break, but we would recommend to try

and dedicate a separate space for your work. This is crucial, right If you are going to be able to make this work for a meaningful length of time, you can't be working from your bed constantly. Maybe maybe once or twice, but if you're constantly working from your bed, I don't think that that's gonna work out for you. Delineating a space between your living area and your work area will help you to focus when you have blurred lines that can just make it much harder to concentrate. If you live,

you know, maybe in a smaller space. It might even be a tiny desk with like a taped outline to remind you that this space right here, this has meant solely for work. In the space outside of that tape line, well, that's you know, that's your regular life, that's your personal life, that's your your family life. I'm thinking about that couple you mentioned ae up in New York, like and I

imagine like two little corners in their apartment. You know that that's tape off, like whatever it takes create you know, if it's not a physical separation of space, like a mental separation between the space that you do life in and the space that you are doing work in. Yeah,

and and think about that too, Matt. If you're doing work and there's somebody else there too, whether it's kids, your partner, If you have a physical delineated space, even if it's just marked by tape or pillows or whatever it takes to kind of say this is my workspace, that can really help your partner or your kids know when they can approach you, to when when it's appropriate for them to ask you a question or jump in. I mean, obviously young kids, we know that they're going

to break any any barrier we set up. But the more we can do to kind of create a physical barrier, it helps us mentally, and I think it helps with those around us and what their expectations are. Man, I'm such a stickler for this, and I feel like that we often underestimate the power that a space can have and how we perceive things. You know, I've got a question for you. Do you ever read in bed, like read a book or anything like that, And yeah, that's

actually typically where I read. Do you really so you're like the complete opposite of me. I literally fell asleep ast night listening to an audio book and I'm like, crap, I need to rewind it and catch the rest of it. So I hate reading in bed, and I like, I don't ever listen to anything. I don't read anything in bed because for me, I've identified that when I get in bed, I just want to fall asleep. I don't want there to every be a time when I lay

in bed. And what that signals to my mind is that all right, it's time to fire up, it's time to get creatives, time to start thinking about ways to you know, save money, things like that. Instead I wanted to be thinking like, okay, it's time to go to bed. And so because of that, I like, I seriously refused to read in bed, because I've trained myself that when

I get in bed, like I fall asleep fast. And to me, at least, I feel like that has a lot to do with having that separate space, Like if I want to read and I go sit in my chair, Like I've got this chair, that's that's Daddy's chair. That's where I sit, That's where I get a lot of my reading done. That's where I like to read. I feel like I need to make a change. Well, I'm I'm old school. I feel like that's a very traditional thing, you know, like, hey, she reads in bed all the

time and she sleeps fine. But I feel like that, you know, literally, after falling asleep last night listening to an audio book, I probably I just know it's probably not ideal. If I'm reading a physical book, I feel like you a little bit different. I'm a little more mentally active actively doing it. But but yeah, it's just definitely not a good place for an audiobook. I found

that out, uh Matt. For folks looking to take other physical steps in order to work from home without going crazy, well, it's important to close your email for specific stretches of the day. With so many of us not in the office, email slack text messages, they're likely to be an even

more constant trip than they typically are. So in order to create these stretches of deeper work, turning off notifications and closing those applications whenever possible is going to help your mental ability to focus on the work you need

to get done. It's gonna help you turn out better work at the same time, right So, and a specific thing to mention if you're actually closing your email or not checking things for a part of the day, talk to your boss about communication expectations ahead of time and let them know that being constantly responsive isn't good for how much work you're gonna be able to get done. And everyone's kind of trying to find a new normal right now what their work from home schedule is going

to look like. So being communicative back and forth with your boss about how that's going to look for you and how you're going to be most productive. This is the exact time to have that conversation. Seriously, I could not think of a better time to kind of like switch up the expectations a little bit. And then right

now it's COVID nineteen season. You know, let's talk about sound distractions as well, Like, even if you're able to create a separate space that you call your office, like, you still might have some audible distractions that are keeping you from that efficient or that deep work. I hope you're not talking about our podcast, because that's never a distraction, that's always just something people should have on the background, right.

You know, I actually wonder if if our podcast listening has gone down because people aren't commuting, because you can't really listen to a podcast while you work, right, because that engages like the side of your brain that has to do with words, Like there's a visual side and then there's like the word side. Maybe people fall asleep listening to us like I do audio books. Hey, if so,

that's fine as long as you can stay subscribed. But there are different noises and sounds, and you know, those can be incredibly distracting, especially if you're not used to them because you're in a new environment because you're working at home. And so here's the thing. The solution, it's simple. All you need to do is get some of those cheap ear plugs. I'm talking about the kind of like little foam cling, cylindrical shaped earplugs you can get like at a drug store, or you can buy like fifty

of them, maybe on Amazon, all at once. But you squeeze them between your fingers, you stick them in your ear, and then they expand and the world disappears. I am a huge fan of these ear plugs. You can go fancy if you want and get the bows noise canceling headphones maybe, But here's the thing, and they're not necessary. Literally all it takes is a few bucks, spend some

money on some of those ear plugs. And I mean, it just depends on who you are, I guess, because I know for me, I've worked from home for over a decade, and I'm not any better at ignoring noises, Like when I hear something, it still distracts me. That's just who I am. And so but what I have gotten better at is eliminating these distractions from my body perceiving them at all. And so I've got ear plugs and I use them all the time. I again, I

completely recommend them. Maybe I'll even link to like the ones that I use if folks are interested. All right, that sounds good, I agree, man. Yeah, It's it's not even like you're trying to be distracted, because sometimes it's literally us proactively trying to distract ourselves by walking to the fridge, by finding something that we can do instead

of working. But sometimes it's literally just a distraction that catches us by surprise and it draws us in and uh, you know, a conversation we over here in the next room, or kids screaming or whatever, and and if they're screaming really loud, it probably probably needs to be attended to. It depends on the type of exactly. You know, if you're a parent, you know, you know the kind of

scream we're talking about. But yeah, so those are some of the physical batteries that are important to implement right now. But there are practices or routines that also make working from home a whole heck of a lot easier too. So let's get into a couple of those, man. And one that we would suggest is to get ready every day kind of like you're going to work normally, get dressed, brush your teeth, just like or similar to if you

were going into the office. You know, if you typically wear a suit, you're probably not going to put on the full nines. Uh, if you're gonna stay in your apartment, what are you trying to prove? Man, Like, no one cares, right right, just for those like zoom video calls that you're gonna be on or whatever, just put the neck tie on. It's fine. The next time. That's like you need.

You can still be sitting there in your underwear. Yeah, but if you but if you're just in your robe and your underwear, like, it's going to affect your mindset. You're you're gonna feel like you're in your home, it's relaxation time, time to take a nap, and so yeah, you you will be less productive. So yeah, getting ready, putting some effort into what you what you look like,

is gonna affect how you feel and how you work. Yeah. Man, This is another one too that I feel like really depends on what you normally where, Like when you do go into work, right, Like, if you're used to going into the midtown office, you know, and you're kind of all dressed up fancy, but then all of a sudden, you look like the dude from the from The Big Lebowski and you're sitting around and you're like, why don't I feel as productive? Hopefully you're not slimming white rushes

to the leban am. I think people are doing that these days. The reason I say that, though, is as someone who has worked from home for the majority of his life, I have pretty much always worn sweatpaints or jim shorts, if you know, if it's during the summer, and that's just part less like my at home uniform. Obviously, if I'm gonna go out and I've got a meeting or something like that, I'm gonna get dressed up a

little little more dressed up than I normally am. But I have found for me that doesn't affect me quite as much. And so even though these are things that we're recommending to folks, there are going to be certain aspects of what we're talking about here that's going to resonate more with you and and who you are as a person. So certainly keep that in mind. Yeah, Matt, even when we're going to record in our new kind of podcast studio Slasher Basement, I'm not gonna go to

dress up. Well, probably I'm not gonna dress up a lot, But my normal uniform is pretty much jeans in a T shirt. Yeah exactly. But but still taking a shower and getting dressed in jeans in your T shirt at least is different than when I sleep in, And so doing that, having that start to the day makes a difference in feeling like I'm actually going to work as opposed to just lounging around a weekend day. At my house. Yeah, well, I look forward to you being fresh and smelling. I'll

get down there and I'm not thinking the space. Something else that we'd recommend for folks to implement is creating hard quote unquote work hours. Right. Another hazard of working at home is not exactly knowing how much you've actually been working. For instance, maybe you know that you got up around seven, maybe eight o'clock, who knows, like you had breakfast and then you started working, but like, when

did you actually start king? Do you know? Creating a schedule and sticking to some of those hard hours where you'll do nothing but actually get work done is important to not feeling like you just wasted the entire day because you've had your work computer open, but maybe you've also been doing other stuff. I know for me, Joe, I've mentioned this before, but clockify is a great solution for me. This is a as browser based as well as app based, so you can have it on your

phone as well, and they're both synchronized. But literally, I do this and I track every single minute of the day. At the end of the day, I like to look back and see that it's as close to twenty four hours as possible. Because sometimes I forget to stop it and start it, so I gotta manually enter it in, which I do because I'm a nerd. But the reason I started doing this is because I have seen the

power of tracking my money. Right. When it comes to budgeting, tracking your money is the first step because you can't like, how are you going to improve what you spend your money on if you don't know where your money is going. And so as a hardcore tracker and budget of my money, I felt, well, I think the same thing would apply to my time, and so do As soon as I started doing that, I've been doing that since this past fall.

Now I can pretty much go back to any single day and show you exactly what I've been spending my time on that day. But it's helped me to see, oh no, I actually have been working a ton or it allows me to look back and see that like, oh man, yeah I have been kind of slack. Yeah I can. I can put some more hours in because I haven't quite worked as much as I know I need to. If you're out there and you're a money nerd and you're like all the numbers and you know spreadsheets,

I would totally recommend an app like clock ify. There's a few others out there that I haven't tried yet, but this is when I started working with and I've stuck with it since. Yeah, And I feel like it works in the opposite way too, because if you're working from home, the lines are more blurred and it's easy to kind of keep that computer open and maybe keep working or start work earlier. There's no commute time these days, so you might find yourself working ten or eleven hours days.

You might feel inundated, like you can't get away from it. It It might feel swamped, but like, how much work have you actually done? Were you to just kind of like concentrate and smosh all that work together, right, Like, what would that look like? Yeah? So I think that brings us to another point too, is that we should avoid multitasking as much as possible. We should definitely be tracking our hours so we're not putting in more hours quote unquote at the office right while we're at home.

But we all think we can multitask. It's kind of innate, I think, in in all of us that we think we can do multiple things at once and do the model capable of that exactly, But most of us were not, and pretty much all of us are not, I think, so, yeah, best to keep the TV off while you're attempting to get work done and not check for news updates every five or ten minutes. Yeah, where we're terrible at distracting ourselves and then it taking forever to get, you know,

back on task. I remember from our interview with Kurt Steinhorst in his book, but he talked about how Harvard m b A when presented with distractions and multitasking, essentially that their i Q drops to that of an eight year old. And obviously that's not a knock on eight year olds. That's just an indication of what we're capable of doing when we're distracted, when we're trying to multitask. Yeah,

for sure. Yeah, man. And another great point that I think Kurt brought up when when we had him on the show was he talked about communicating, about communicating, which I think that was one of our takeaways. It sounds like overkill, it sound is ridiculous, but he's so right.

How can you expect me to communicate? And we talked about kind of setting that expectation with your boss now, but it's important too, with your coworkers and with members of your family, Like, how are we going to communicate now? Are we gonna be Marco Polo messaging like twenty times a day or are we going to check in with

each other once or twice a day? And so yeah, setting that expectation with the people that are closest to you what will help them from getting their feelings hurt and will help you from being an unproductive mess right yeah. And I mean one of the examples he gave that he adopted, and I think a lot of people kind of work this way by default, is that if it's an email, like I'll probably get back to you sometime

that day. If it's something that's a little more urgent, send me a text, right, Like, that's something that you can get back to within like maybe an hour, maybe maybe less, but if it's an emergency, will give me

a call. Um. I feel like these are sort of ground rules that a lot of us maybe operate by, but actually stating it's and you know, I think especially with your loved ones, especially with your family, with your kids, you know, with a partner, these these are important steps to take to make sure that every ones on the same page and you know, Joel, I'm thinking of two, Like, a lot of folks are working from home, a lot more of us are hopping into like FaceTime in the

zoom calls. If you're unfamiliar with how they work, like, we would recommend that you spend a minute or two familiarizing yourself with those programs right, like, for example, learn how the mute button works. Like you don't want to be the person with a barking dog, you know, while you're on this giant group sales call. Basically, if you have technology that you need to be using to be professional and to get your job done, make sure you've taken the time to know how that technology works, like

this is now a part of your job. And obviously I'm sure that these are all things that your your employer has already you know, explained to you via emails. But it's so true. If if you want this to be a seamless transition to you working from home, make sure that you're doing it well. Yeah, for sure. And Matt, I think another thing that needs to be talked about. One of the greatest disadvantages to working from home is loneliness that people can feel. It's like a real issue.

I think for lots of people when we work from home, and especially in a time like this, we feel disconnected from our workers. It's just a weird time for all of us, and it feels even weirder when we're kind

of locked into our dwellings most of the day. So it's important to mention that non work related zoom meetings can be helpful, like a virtual happy hour, work calls with your friends that don't involve talking about work, that kind of water cooler talk that you would normally get, uh at some point during the day in a normal in a normal Monday through Friday, you're not getting any of that right now, So scheduling those can be really helpful.

And that's really to focus on your mental health and just to kind of have fun and make sure everyone's doing all right. Checking in Marco Polo is another kind of cool app. It can be distracting if you don't use it well, but it's an easy way for you to send videos to your friends, coworkers, whatever. You can set up like a Marco Polo channel and send fun videos throughout the day and maybe have a regular schedule that you're going to check those and maybe send something back.

But yeah, you don't want it to distract you, but you also do want to make sure that you're tapping into the community of people that are closest to you during this time, and and you're not letting loneliness overtake you, because that's that's a real threat. Can you sit up noted occasions with specific users on Marco Polo. That's a good question. I don't know. I don't know either, because like usually turn off notifications for anything, and I go

into an Apple when I want to take a look exactly. Yeah, because well I was thinking about it for us, you know, like because I like what's great about Like, I mean, this is the second time you mentioned Marco Polo. I feel like what's great about this app specifically is that it taps into the robustness of a phone call or a video chat, right, but at the same time it lends the convenience that you get out of a text message, and so like you don't have to like hop on

a call and coordinate your your times with somebody. It's there whenever you're able to check it, and so on that note, I was thinking, I was like, man, that would be something totally great for you and me. To use, you know when it comes to talking about things. But if you're hopping in there and then you have like a bunch of messages from your family, you know, your kids are sending you funny videos that kind of stuff,

it might be kind of distracting. But you know, that's a good point, and I think it is an easier way to communicate. It's easier than text. It's so faster. Yeah, it's faster exactly. Yeah. So I think, yeah, that can be really helpful for lots of people, and it's helpful in combating some of that loneliness that a lot of people feel like. Literally, I think it's the number one downside to working from home. A lot of people get

their social cups filled at work. You know, for a lot of people that the social interactions that they have with their colleagues are really meaningful. And so to go from having that five days a week to nothing, And on top of that, if you're in you know, a high risk city where you're on lockdown, basically you're not hardly seeing anyone. Man like that, that can be really tough. Yeah, yeah, for extroverts and an introverts alike, depending on your personality,

either way, you slice it. It's it's not easy, yeah, Jil. One other thing I wanted to mention this is sort of I don't know, this might seem obvious for folks, but I've found this to be so incredibly helpful working from home. You know, we discussed how oftentimes we're distracted by like chores. So you're like, oh, I need to do laundry. Oh this, you know, I want to be able to do this. Oh this is a funny video I want to look up, or oh, what's the TV show?

All these different things that pop in your mind. Right, Like when you're sitting there at work, just keep a running list, just to do list that you hit after you're done with work. I feel like I've found for me that is just an incredibly simple way for me to corral my thoughts and not allow myself to go down these rabbit trails when I know I need to be working because I'm on the clock for work. I

got my clockify app ticking. I don't want to use that valuable time to you know, look some random fact up on Wikipedia. Right, and so I know this sounds simple, but just keeping a post it note next to your computer or using the reminder's app on your iPhone. Whatever it takes for you to have those thoughts, which that's totally fine, document them, but then continue to stay focused on the task at hand. So helpful. Yeah, man, I know,

I think that's great. And I feel like one of the biggest challenges right now facing people is is working from home with other people around. Yeah again, three square foot apartments where you're living, sleepy and the eating. That sounds like that's a nightmare, dude, Yeah, exactly. So Yeah, working with a partner or with kids until especially kids

who have to learn. I mean, there are a billion kids across the world right now out of school, so crazy, and it's affecting parents and working with a partner and almost similar level of difficulty in some situations. And so we'll get to to some thoughts that we have for making it a little bit easier to to handle that. Right after the break, Yes, we're back from the break.

We were discussing working from home without going crazy, and Joel, if it wasn't already enough of a challenge for us to work from home when you're not used to it, working from home with kids or with others in your home makes things even harder. N let's there are three or four kids and helping them figure out their school

work into this mix. Yeah, seriously, it's not like summer break because in all likelihood, yeah, you have to actually facilitate helping them learn something in all the places you would normally go during summer break, they're closed. Yeah, and sorry, you can't play with your friends either, right, it's like

the worse cemrification of all times play dates or no go. Yeah, it's like, great, this is an ideal, but let's talk about a few things that can make this process go smoother, because who knows, this really might be our life for a little while longer, Joel, one of the things that I've implemented over the past few weeks here is shifting my work schedule to the evenings, and so we all have fewer if any commitments or appointments on our calendars these days. I don't know about you, but that's how

my calendar has been looking. Yeah, it's it's gone pretty bare, and uh, you know what, I'm kind of okay with that, really, I was gonna say, because you are like total extrovert, and so for me to see my calendar completely open up like that, it's kind of liberating and I kind of feel at ease, but I feel like I could see you maybe kind of getting a little ainsy. No, I mean, I miss hang out with friends, but I don't miss all the obligations that I have in a

normal week. So that's kind of actually been nice. And you've got me. Well, there's that. There's always that. Is that worth mentioning to you. I wonder if people wondered if we're recording in person or not because we are, like you and I were sitting across from each other. But it's worth mentioning that, you know, both of our families. We talked about this at the very beginning of the quarantine, and we committed to being uber safe and distant from

other people. That way, you and I could continue to work in person. That way our families can still hang out. Like we're still taking precautions, but we knew that we wanted to be able to continue to podcast, and so to that end, you and I were being extra extra safe. Yeah, exactly. Sorry, that's just a little aside that popped into my head. But I'm glad to see that you're you're taking you know, your events, your obligation is being canceled. Uh and stride, Yeah,

I am. But back to what I was saying, right, like shifting your work to the evenings, in particular, if you have kids at home who you are caring for, look to the hours after bedtime to get your work done. I'm sure a lot of folks have already maybe even realized this just out of necessity, but that's something that we've definitely implemented it and I've seen the value in that. My My typical work hours are from like nine to four thirty. I try to kick off by four thirty.

I joined Kate with helping out the kids, you know, in the late afternoon it can get kind of crazy. But since the girls haven't been in school, I've shifted to working typically from noon to four, and then we've got all afternoon together, including dinner, and then I work from seven until ten, So that leaves me, you know, the entire morning to do fun stuff with the girls, whether that's going bike rides, go hiking, just reading books,

help participating in their class activities. Which, man, I don't know your thoughts, but I feel like that the schools have totally stepped up, you know, like we are facilitating they're learning, but it's not like we have to come up with the entire curriculum. Um. They've totally been stepping in and I've really been impressed with the implementation of

technology when it comes to them continuing their education. I think there's so many different people that you probably appreciated in everyday life, but now you're starting to see their value come shine through even more. And teachers are definitely one of those places where we were in love with

our kids teachers. They were awesome, but I feel like we've loved them on another level right as they're stepping up their games, sending us curriculum, staying in touch, all the all the effort they're putting in to helping us figure out how to do online learning right now, it's

been great. Yeah, Juel, I couldn't agree more. So. A good way to approach shifting your hours is to figure out when it's completely necessary for you to be on the clock with your employer, because chances are there's you know, a few points during the day when you need to be responsive, when you need to be on some non

negotiable hours exactly. Yeah, yeah, And so when that happens, you know that like Okay, I definitely need to be on during that period, But do I necessarily need to start working at eight or do I need to actually go until, you know, five o'clock every single day. Find ways to proactively alter those hours and draw hard boundaries around those hours and and pick that time up later. You know, you wanna be able to take advantage to

some of this time that you have at home. It's fun to be able to like go on daytime adventures with your spouse, you know, like how cool would it be to go with your girlfriend or your boyfriend and maybe go hiking during the day when normally you would never be able to do that on a Tuesday. But now you can take advantage of some of that beautiful daylight that we've got these days. And in order to

do that, you can clock some more time in the evening. Yeah, Matt, And make sure you communicate that with your boss, because hopefully your boss is understanding and and things do need to be a little more flexible, especially if you have kids right now, and so hopefully your boss is willing to work for you. I think trying to find that happy medium where you can shift your work hours to work better for your family right now is really helpful.

And Matt, you mentioned getting outside. You've mentioned taking hikes, and I think that's really important too. I think developing a rhythm right now of kind of doing some more outdoor activities can be really helpful, especially because this is starting to feel more like a marathon than it is

a sprint. Right this this quarantine that we're experiencing, we're not sure exactly when things are gonna change and we're gonna go back to kind of a more normal routine when schools are going to reopen and when we're gonna be going back into the office, and so kind of making sure that we make time for physical activity is huge. So each morning, you know, my wife Emily, she's been leading the kids in yoga and there's this Cosmic Kids Yoga and you can watch their videos for free on YouTube.

That's been huge for our kids to like use their bodies in the morning, get a little bit of that rowdy physical energy out before they have to sit down and kind of start doing some schoolwork. So yeah, anyway that you can get outside, any way that you can you know, get a little physical is going to be I think helpful in helping you focus on your work

throughout the day when that's needed. Yeah, jo And I think another benefit of maybe some activities like that, like like of specific activities that you're spending with your family or with a significant other, is that you're being very intentional with your time, right, Because when you know that the time that you're taking off, like these different breaks that you're taking, that you're doing something meaningful with it, then I feel, for me, I've got less guilt when

it does come time to work. Right. This kind of goes back to, uh, making sure that you're not multitasking where you're doing everything really poorly. When you're able to focus on specific tasks and you know, really create some quality time with your family, then when the time does come that you need to get back to work, you can go to that work completely guilt free. You can really focus on it knowing that the time that you

haven't been working, you you spent it well, right. And So I think as much as possible, regardless of how you're spending your time, whether you're spending that working or with your family, make sure that you're kind of giving it, You're all that you're giving Joel on something else, I think that's really important you know, so when you have to get work done during the day, is that it's important to create just different systems where you can easily

communicate with others, but kids, especially when it is that you are working and when you're going to be free, right, something as simple as a visual que can be helpful. You know, like maybe you say, like, hey, when the office door is closed, like that's when I have to be working. You can't interrupt me. Then maybe a closed office door might be more effective to other adults or maybe roommates that you're living with, but maybe less so

with kids. But some friends of ours they created a simple green light red light situation just at a construction paper to let their kids know that they couldn't interrupt or ask questions when the red light was out. That the kids knew that when they saw a red light, that meant that Monty was on a very important call and you could not step into the office. You couldn't

go into that room at that point. But when she switched it to the green light, that meant you can come on in, you know, like that's time when you can interrupt. And obviously, you know, if there's an emergency, like the kids know that they can go in there whenever. But especially for kids, I think it can be really helpful to have just these simple cues, these simple, you know, visual reminders that they can see that tells them when it's time to work and when it's time to play. Yeah, man,

that's super helpful. Visual cues for everyone involved can make a big difference. Also, too, it's just really important to kind of accept the reality of the situation. We're basically in an unprecedented scenario that none of us have ever experienced before, and we don't really know how to deal with it. We're all kind of doing the best we

can and we're trying to figure it out. So it's actually, if you have kids at home that you're responsible for, basically we all need to be okay getting a little bit less done, being less productive because we need to be there for our kids at the same time. And that's okay, right. Our world obviously looks vastly different than it did a couple of months ago, so it's important to cut yourself from slack, realizing that your productivity level might not be on point like it typically is when

you're in the office. Um, but yeah, there is a certain amount of reality that needs to be faced, Matt, as our work environments have completely changed and kind of what our days look like are crazy different than they normally would be. Yeah, man, I couldn't agree more. It's it's important for us to not only be gracious with others,

but certainly with ourselves as well. Bottom line, man, is that working from home is great, right Like this is coming from someone who's done it for twelve years now, but it comes with trade offs. There's no commune, but there's also less camaraderie and there's less company culture that you're gonna experience when you're sitting by yourself at home, and working from home feels less awesome when we don't have a choice in the matter, you know, obviously in

this case due to the coronavirus. Coronavirus yeah, and ruins everything and we're you know, remote all the time right now, Like that is probably gonna be less desirable for folks who are thinking like I wouldn't mind is working from home like one or two days a week, but three solid weeks in a row. That's a lot. But by implementing some of these tactics, we can make it less difficult and it will allow us to settle into a groove so that we can do this for as long

as it's going to be required. Yeah, So best of luck to all of you out there doing your best to wade through this kind of new way of life for the time being, and especially if you have kids, best of luck helping them with their schoolwork, getting stuff done, getting food on the table, getting laundry done, all these things. But hopefully these tips can be can be a help so that you can do each one of those things

at least reasonably. Well, all right, Matt, let's get back to the beer we had on the show today, A beer called same as it ever was, even though everything is completely different. This was an I p A by Monday Night brewing. What was your take on a man, Well, I'll tell you my thoughts, may but I wanted to mention and address the fact that, like, we know that this is the name of the song. Knew that this was the name of a Talking Head song, right, not

until you told me. As the days go by the buddy, I've heard the song, but I didn't know that was the name. I think I was a little a little sharp there, you know, if they would if they would go for hooting the blowfish references instead, I would totally get it, which they might never do. Actually they're too

cool for that. Yeah, but this is a fantastic New England style I p A. It was super hazy, right, This is one of those cloudy New England I p a S that the cloudiness it lends us off to a beer that has like that silky smooth mouse texture, so like you're drinking it tastes fantastic. You've got all those tropical hop notes in there. Uh, and you've got less to me, You've got less of that that sharp, funky hop nous. In my mind, this is like one of those more juicy I p a s as opposed

to the sharper, funkier ones. I don't really discriminate like all the beers, but yeah, this is one that I particularly enjoyed. Buddy, how about you. Yeah, they've been putting out some really awesome new I p a s and they've all kind of hop hut series. Yeah, and in my mind, I feel like each new release is better than the last, like they're they continually are getting better, Like they're making the best beers they've ever made right now, And so yeah, I think this was my favorite of

their recent hot putt offerings. It was perfectly balanced. And by balanced, I mean imagine a seesaw and this enormous sack or multiple sacks of hops come down on one side and toss you up in the air because you were standing on the other side of the seesaw. That doesn't sound like balance, though, it sounds like a catapult. It's my idea of good balance though when it comes to a hoppy beer, just an insane amount of hops. So yeah, this was really good. I guess once you

land back down, your body weight offsets the sacks of hops. Yeah, and then you're cool exactly. I don't know that was the mental picture. I got tons of hops, so good. Monday night beers have just gotten ridiculous these days. So yeah, they're definitely a solid brewery here in Atlanta. If any of our listeners are here in Atlanta, stay tuned because maybe at some point, once we break free of the shackles of quarantine, we'll set up a little maybe a

little get together over there at Monday night. But until then, if you're out on about and you're able to, yeah, swing by their support them as well as all of your favorite local breweries. They all need some extra these days, with their tap rooms, with their tasting rooms closed. Just like a lot of the small businesses we love, we cherish. We want these breweries to stick it through and to emerge on the other side of this crazy time that

we find ourselves in. Yeah. Man, I can only imagine the parties of celebrations that people are going to have, you know, when this is is kind of moved past us, you know, and I think, you know what, how the money, We're gonna have a big get together one of these breweries and just freaking celebrate and have some great beers. And I hope this one's on draft the day that we visit. There can be a party, but we need to make sure it's not too soon. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Don't be don't do it too soon, man. I bet they'll be like a federal holiday, like once the quarantine has been officially lifted. I mean, seriously, there's never been something this massive that have that has affected the lives of so many people. You're right, there could be like a national holiday for there's gotta be It'll be like Independence Day. What if it does happen on July four? Oh my gosh, I hope it's before July four, but if it lasts that long, that's not good. Yeah, we'll

see buddy. All right, Well, Matt, that's gonna do it for this episode. And for folks that want more of our stuff, go back and listen to our backlog on your podcatcher, or check us out on our website and find our show notes at how to money dot com. Also up there on the website are going to be some helpful articles. For instance, we've got a few credit card articles. One is you know the right credit card

to get based on how you spend your money. There's also another one up there as well that covers our favorite you know the best balanced transfer credit cards. And these are credit cards that you can sign up for that will give you a zero percent introductory rate. And so a lot of us are in these tougher times, and while we do not encourage credit card debt, having a credit card at zero percent is a nice thing to have in your personal finance arsenal. Yeah, for sure.

All right, Matt, Until next time, Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out.