When to DIY or Hire a Pro #437

I'm Matt, and welcome to How the Money. Today we're talking about Yeah, we're talking about d I y ng it because Joel, you and I are frugal dudes, and we tend to be borderline cheap, and oftentimes what that can lead us is down this path of d I y ng things when instead we should be hiring a pro. And then on the flip side, sometimes we are automatically thinking, oh,

you gotta hire a pro for that. I don't know anything about that, but when in reality there are ways that we could save a lot of money by doing it ourselves. I think, especially in today's society, there are a lot of people that prioritize that prize convenience, and understandably, so I think we lead busier lives. I don't know if that's a good thing, but I think it's a

true thing. And so hiring people, hiring more services, and hiring a pro more frequently become starts to become the default, starts to become the norm, and so we want to question that too. So in today's episode, we're gonna try to provide somewhat of a framework for thinking through some of these decisions. But Matt, before we get to that, I saw commercial on TV the other day for something that I thought was long dead, and yet it remains. The penny bidding websites. Do you know what those are?

Have you seen penny auctions? Yes, so, like ten twelve years ago, those were a thing. And what you do is you buy like a bunch of bids. They seem really really inexpensive, and you you stockpile these bids on these websites and you're bidding for things like, I don't know, like Apple laptops or headphones or different tech sort of items. That camera, yes, and that camera might sell for sixty dollars when it's actually worth seven fifty dollars and it seems like a deal. But the problem is is not

the final price that is incredibly cheap. It's that you're paying money with every single bid to try to win that item. And the clock gets reset every time somebody bids exactly every time there's a bit well on like deal Dash in particular, that's a real popular one. Like I think every time you bid, it just raises the you know, the price of the item only by one cent, but it also adds ten seconds to the remaining time on the ticker. Uh. It is not like an eBay

auction where the end time is the end time. The end time continues to get reset and you continue to plunk money down hoping that you're going to get it discounted whatever it is item, and you almost always lose. Yeah. I think the term that comes into play here is sunk cost fallacy, because you think, oh, well, I've I've put so many bids on this one item, I can't give up now, and so you continue to bid on it.

And with deal Dash in particular, each one of those bids cost thirteen cents, which, yeah, like you said, doesn't seem like much money at all. But all of those bids added up on top of the fact that you are trying to compete with these other folks trying to get the side and for really cheap, it is not a good way to get a deal. Uh. And I

saw somebody once right about it. How it's a decent form of entertainment, right, like in the same way that going y, Like if you want to go and gamble your money away and there's a chance that you might get a big payoff, there's a chance you might get a deal. But it is not like uh, deal News or slick deals, you know, a place where you can go where you can expect to get a good discount on an item. Uh. It's definitely more like, yeah, it's

like a slot machine. Yeah, exactly, like the online version of a slot machine. So it's just one of those things where I saw that commercially other day and I was like, I can't believe those still exist, Like I thought those have been eradicated from the Internet, but sadly they're not. They're not. There's still a bunch of out

there well. And the thing is too, if you look them up, they get good reviews, Like they have nice positive reviews on Facebook or trust Pilot, like different sites that you would go to and check the legitimate to see of a site or a companies. It is. It's incredibly surprising because ultimately what they're doing, it's not illegal. It's just kind of like a misrepresentation of what it is, right because, like we said, you go there, you're expecting a deal, but in the end you're not walking away

oftentimes with the deal. Uh. And if you are getting a deal, that meant that there is like a whole wine of people behind you that fail to get a deal. Oftentimes you are spending a lot of money for the opportunity to perhaps buy the item. It's like being not guaranteed. It's like being the eighth friend in your friend group to start selling Lula ro leggings. That's basically the position you're put in, Like, oh man, what do you participate in any penny bid websites? But Matt, let's I gotta

find some new friend. Let's move on. Let's mention the beer that we're having on the show today. This one is called rind Over Matter. It's why Bell's Brewing and Chris, who works for Bells, dropped these off for us. So Chris, we appreciate it. Looking forward to giving our thoughts on this at the end of the episode. But for now, let's move on. Let's get to the topic at hand. To d I y or to are someone for the job. I can almost hear Hamlet saying it in his to

be or not to be? And you're getting a little theatrical. I never did any stage play. Did you ever know a kid? I did? We have a place in Atlanta called the Shakespeare Tavern. I love going there, although since I probably haven't been in like three years, but it's a delightful place to see a show. Um. But yeah, this question of hiring someone to do the job for you or doing it yourself, it's not not nearly as existential as the question that Hamlet poses, and which is

just like brilliant writing right there. But it's it's a Shakespeare I believe was the who penned it to the Bart he's a smart guy. But it's it's one that we all increasingly find ourselves asking. Right. There's apps and websites that offer to make our lives more and more convenient for a price, of course, And there's no need to scour the yellow pages like in the days of old. You just open the app, you find the highest rated person at the rate you're willing to pay, and you

hire them immediately. And Matt, you and I were not against paying for convenience. We believe that time is more valuable than money, right, Yeah, we would say that, but these conveniences can also act like a vortex sucking away are valuable dollars which took time to earn. So we

kind of talk about how to deal with this conundrum today. Matt, that's right, and so of course you want to make sure that you're doing things right, which is why we often will revert to hiring your pro but it also it can get expensive if you're constantly paying for professional help, like if you're going to hire a doctor or just you know, going to the doctor, uh to diagnose the

mysterious illness, like that makes complete sense. But hiring someone maybe to mow your lawn or to clean your house, like these are are more of activities and chores that are kind of in a gray zone because if you're able bodied, like those are things that you could easily do yourself. And so in this episode, we want to

establish a helpful framework for making these decisions. And there are good folks who with different income levels and different goals and expenditures who will likely differ on which route that they take when it comes to the different d I Y versus the outsourcing questions you know that pop

up in their lives. There is no silver bullet right answer, but there are ways that we can think through the questions in order to make sure that we come to a consistently better decisions for ourselves and our our own personal finance situations. Most definitely, research shows that people who prioritize time over money are actually happier at the end

of the day. There was a Harvard professor, Ashley Willens, who did some research and she found that hiring out small tasks like home cleaning can actually provide real value for a lot of folks. So we don't want to dismiss that altogether, and it actually increases levels of happiness, and that's that's more support for the fact that time is more valuable than money. Like I think for folks who may not have a whole lot of money, they're thinking, no,

money is more valuable than the time right now. But ultimately, I mean, the main argument behind this is the fact that we all have a very finite amount of time here on this earth, whereas money there it's it's very

open ended. There's an infinite, almost infinite amount of money that you could make potentially, whereas we know that we're not gonna live forever exactly, but that doesn't mean, right that we should all bring a cleaning crew in our house to scrub the base sports every week and to tidy up after us and just live a slovenly life and and have the maid on duty at all hours of the day while also being completely broken. Right, Right, It's important to remember how high the price of convenience

can become. And that's really on multiple levels. I'm not talking just monetarily. Convenience spending tends to be get more convenient spending the more we become accustomed to something, the more we tend to gravitate in that direction. You start doing it in one area, and it's just easy to let it bleed into other areas of your life. Like, let's come back to that house cleaning example. Did you hire someone to start cleaning your house on a regular basis?

Now it's probably gotten just a little bit easier to hire out that grocery delivery service, and so there can be kind of this domino effect when it comes to convenience, and at some point the bleeding has to stop, right, Yeah, it's a slippery slope once you start to go down this path of hiring out for convenience and paying for things to be done for you. But it's also important to to keep in mind that the actual costs of goods themselves are going to go up when you prioritize

convenience as well. So Joel, going with that grocery delivery example you just gave, you're gonna be paying more for the groceries. You know, your pairs and your potatoes if you choose to have those delivered instead of picking the Mountain person yourself. And so that's on top of the delivery fees that you're also going to be paying. And so with that in mind, your grocery bill could come close to doubling if you opt to take the convenient route.

It's important to go into that convenience upgrade in your life with your eyes wide open. But just because it costs more, it doesn't mean that this is an inherently a bad decision. But coming to grips with what you are paying for that added convenience is going to be crucial. You just don't want to trick yourself into thinking that this is a good investment because I'm getting time back.

Don't bring the eye word and you know, I know my mom always like she she I've given her grief away too many times about using the eye word, calling something an investment that's actually just a consumer purchase. You are consuming that, And she'll say it, and then she'll correct ourselves and she'll be like, I know, I know what you're gonna say. Don't say it, sorry, Mom, But yeah, let's let's discuss the framework that we think is most helpful when you're deciding whether or not to d I,

Y or hire something. And we think that if you're too frugality minded, you're gonna end up wasting your time in order to try to pinch every single penny. You'll probably find that you'd be better off and that your life would be a little bit happier if you would just loosen the purse strings a little bit more and pay for a convenience and and outsource something hire a pro a little more often. You might even have more time to dedicate to building your business or starting a

passion project that could eventually significantly increase your income. But on the flip side, if you outsource too many things to the pros, if you do take that slippery slope that we just talked about. It could cramp your budget in a big way. You might find that you're not able to save or invest as much as you like. You might even find that you are going into debt in order to fund the hiring of these pros when you could be doing some of these things yourself. So

for us, it's that frugal versus spendthrift. That's the framework we're going to use in this episode to discuss when it makes sense and when it doesn't. Hire that task out. Yes, So being frugal versus spendthrift and kind of finding that middle ground is what will be you know, keep coming back to in this episode. It makes me think of two When I was starting out as a landlord, I certainly was attempting to do everything myself. Uh, And I was spending a lot of time fixing things. I learned

a lot during that period of life. Uh, And I'm glad I did it for that that period of time. But now I hire out almost everything. When it comes to the different properties. For me to to spend time just diagnosing and repairing every single problem that's going to rise to the surface on these different rental properties around town is gonna mean losing out in other important areas of my life. There's things that are more important at this point in time, right like building this business, doing

stuff with the family, personal goals. These are all things that are important that we all have to keep in mind as we're trying to find that balance ourselves. Uh. And just at this point to in my life, I'm just in a different life phase. Uh. And if I were to maybe be too frugal, this would actually keep me from accomplishing some of those other goals. And so that's what we want to encourage you to keep in mind as you're trying to decide whether you're gonna d

I Y something or whether you're gonna hire a professional. Yeah, Mat, I've definitely encountered, especially in the business we're in. The people we hang out with a lot of money nerds people run the spectrum, but there are a lot of super frugal people in our community. And I appreciate it because at heart, I'm a very frugal person. But sometimes that frugality, like I've heard people talk about, I don't

know if I want to pay to go to that conference. Uh, it's gonna be a few hundred dollars to pay for the conference, a few hundred dollars for the hotel, a few hundred dollars to the flight. You're talking a thousand dollars at the end of the day. But I guess the question I want to ask a lot of those people is, couldn't you easily get a thousand dollars of value out of that conference? Like what are you going

there for? What are you trying to achieve? And so similarly, you don't want to be too frugal and avoid a big opportunity because it's gonna cost you some money. Um, And so yeah, we'll get to more about how you make a decision between doing it yourself or hiring someone else to do that task for you, how you actually come to that determination. We'll discuss more after this break.

All right, gentle, we're back for the break, and so let's go ahead and talk about the different ways to determine whether you should hire someone or stick to the d I y route. And before we get like super nuts and bolty with it, you're gonna say, lick your fingers, stick it in the air, see which way the winds blowing, and then trust your guts, leaving a chance. What is dinner from last night telling you, like in your dreams what you should be doing. Uh. No, Like we are

going to get get more practical with it. But one of the things I think it's worth mentioning is to keep in mind that paying for convenience it can cost us more than just money, right, more than just dollars. Let's kind of take a step back here for a second. Our modern society, it's just built in so many ways around the idea of convenience and specialization as well. For instance, most of us don't grow or kill all of our

own food. There's a level of convenience that we have inherited where there's a pretty small number of farmers who grow food for us, and then they ship it off to the grocery stores and we go there and we purchase it with our money. It's easier to do this, Yes, and like this is a good thing because it's a lot easier, uh, And it's way more efficient versus us making our own food, our own clothing, our own homes. But I often think if I had to live back

in the day, I would not have survived. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't. Like, they didn't have podcasting back then, so but you would have found something you you would have been good at. Maybe. I mean so, I wanted to mention that because I feel like we've taken convenience just beyond the realm of just specialization, because the most convenient things are often just worse for us in many other ways. I think that they can often make us lazier,

you know, or at least like more unhealthy. And like, for instance, like I think about fast food, it's obviously gonna be worse for you than like most any meal that you would cook for yourself at home. Uh, And so just think about the other side effects of prioritizing too much convenience. Were making the argument that it can you know, atrophy useful skills that we know, were you to push through the pain, that that would help you to hone. You know, these are skills that make us

just engaged and more well rounded individuals and citizens. And I know that's definitely what I'm looking for more of in my own life. All Right, it's homemade McRib sandwiches from my family's night then Matthew, we're not going out for him. But yeah, I think you make a good point. I think inconvenience can actually be good for us in

so many situations in life. And yeah, I think you can take that to the extreme and you could say, I'm gonna go purposely getting a traffic jam because inconvenience is good. But no, that's not what we're saying, No exactly, But yeah, there's this sweet spot when it comes to paying for conveniences in our lives, and if you let that pendulum swing too far to one side or the other, it's likely to have those other negative of side effects. And yeah, that's why we're fans of getting on our bikes,

let's say, for short and medium rides in particular. Sometimes we get there just as fast, but not always, and it takes a bit more planning, especially as the weather is getting colder and I gotta put on my gloves, like I gotta, I gotta gear up before those rides, uh these days. But those inconveniences, when they're embraced, actually become beneficial for me from health and a lifestyle perspective, even though I lose a few minutes here and there.

So yeah, we would say, look at the trade offs you're making when you opt for convenience over the more inconvenient choice, because some of those things that you're gonna be missing. They're not worth it's not worth giving those up. Yeah, I mean especially, I mean I feel like health is one that you could eventually quantify, like twenty thirty years

down the road. But your health is just one of those things where there are it's the accumulation of tiny little decisions all along the way that lead to a healthier outcome. If you can't say that this action leads to this outcome, it's something that it's just a little more ambiguous, even though there are certainly direct, hard costs down the road when it comes to our health. Yeah, I saw a stat recently, Matt that I think more people smoked for the first time in twenty years, like

the uptick. There was an uptick in the amount of people smoking cigarettes. And when you think about it, one cigarette, it's probably not a big deal, but it's that one cigarette every day or five cigarettes every day, the accumulation activity. And it's the same thing with that one bike gride. It's like, well, one bike ride is not gonna make a big difference, but it's at one bike ride, all those bike rides added up is going to make a

massive difference. Yeah, And so there are some of these intangibles, and for you, it's gonna vary because there are different things that we all get out of certain activities. Like I even think about certain kind of mindless, you know, drone like activities that you might be like, oh, I am too good for that, Like I need to put my mind to use, I need to put my body

to use doing other things. But like even just think about the fact that there are things that we can do that allows us to decompress where our minds aren't engaged. And oh, it turns out that leads to maybe being able to get a better night's sleep because you've had a period of time where you were able to reflect on the day. There are different things that are built into some of the different types of work that we do that aren't directly correlated to money, and so we

want you to keep those things in mind. Get a chance to think more deeply about something as supposed to just shallow Twitter style thoughts exactly. Uh okay, So that's more like a more philosophical way of approaching how to decide, you know, if you're gonna pay somebody to to take care of something for you. But let's kind of get a little more practical with it, and we want you to count the cost, like the upfront costs associated with whatever it is that you're looking to spend on services.

In particular, it's not just the sixty dollars every two weeks for that long service. Instead, we want you to run the numbers and confront the true recurring costs of this decision. And so if you do the math on that, like, over the next five years, this quote unquote convenience, that's gonna cost you about seven thousand dollars, Whereas you know, were you to mow it yourself, like that is going to cost you some time and a little bit of money for a mower and some maybe some gas. And

so let's call it. That's still a ton of money. That's the cost of a nice used car, that's the cost of a of a really nice vacation. And plus if you invested that money instead, it would be growing on your behalf, uh and you would see it grow to even larger amounts. And so it's worth asking, is you know, not having to mow your own lawn, is that going to be worth thousands of dollars? Well, it just depends. I can't answer that for you like it might be, but it may not be worth it for you.

But at least do yourself the favor of just starting down some you know, with some realistic numbers of what this choice is actually going to be costing you over time. Yeah, you want to face those numbers head on, because if you don't, you're you're likely to leak money like a sieve in the name of convenience when maybe it's not actually worth it to you. And that there are times in my life that I would have never even dreamed of paying someone to mow my lawn. It seemed idotic.

I was like, who does that? Who are these people that pay? But that that was like before kids, my life looked a lot different. I had a lot more time on my hand, and I didn't mind getting out there in the yard as much. Back then, you're saying, is time worth more than exactly exactly? But while I still do like to cut my grass, there are times that I have someone else do it if I've got too much going on in my life or and it's not even doesn't have to be anything like super important.

Sometimes it's just like, you know what, Saturday, We're gonna do a full on family day we're going for a hiking, which is super important, really needs to be mode, and I'm just not going to do it this week. I still like to make d I y ing it like my my number one default, but I'm willing to be flexible based on kind of what's happening in my life

at the moment. And so, yeah, even though it's helpful from a behavioral standpoint, it access this deterrent just blindly hiring out that task on a recurring basis like having someone on the calendar every two weeks to mode the lawn is like you said, it's gonna add up. But if I do it when I need it on demand as opposed to making it a regular thing, it means I'm less likely to do it as often. And I

kind of like being forced into making that decision. Yeah, it's it's almost like going to like a nice resort on vacation where it's all inclusive. It's like you're going to spend a lot more money, So you're losing on that front, you know, when it comes to money. But you're also losing unless you drink as much of My brother in law does, well, I think he gets his money.

He's worth but then he's losing on the other end of it, you know what I'm saying, Like, like he probably leaves those trips and he's just like, I'm just but he's not that. But I have also been on these trips and I've thought to myself, you know what, like it was kind of fun in the moment, but I kind of regret it in those instances. I wish instead to have had that money and to have made those choices all along the way, sort of you know, more Alec Hart style, doing it as needed, if it

was on demand. And I think oftentimes instead of hitting the unlimited patrone button, it sounds like your brother in law maybe hit up to Loom or some other Mexican destination. But the problem, I think, man, is that oftentimes, like we're not just we're not taking the time to do to to like reflect at all. Right, We're not hitting pause, We're not considering these costs. We're only looking at what we can afford in the moment, which means by default

we're becoming like payment buyers. Right, We're only looking at the here now, We're not looking at those long term effects of these small expenses all added up. Uh, And so instead, like you said, it's worth it to sit down, actually do the math, crunch the numbers, which leads me to another point too. I think sometimes it's too complicated, like folks are like, well how do I How am I going to calculate what this is gonna mean for

me down the road? Uh? And this is where we want to reintroduce folks to the rule of one seventy three, which is simply put, if you have a monthly expense and you want to know what that money were to do if instead of spending it, if you invested it in the stock market, well we can tell you what that would be after ten years were you to just take that expense and multiply it by hundred seventy three. And so, for instance, car detailing, this is a service

that I do not pay for. I will spray my own van down with the hose and wipe it with a sponge as needed. But some mine is greatly in need of right now? Is it? Bring it over? Many, let's wash it washing this weekend. Make the kids do it. But they can't reach up top. That's the problem there. Car detailing can be so expensive. I was looking at some prices around here around Atlanta. Uh And some folks pay a hundred and fifteen bucks a month for car detailing.

And so let's do some simple math. You do a hundred fifteen dollars times a hundred seventy three. If you were to forego having your car look perfect and spotless, you know, without any bird crap on it at all, you would have around twenty tho dollars at the end of ten years. It's not bad. That is a serious amount of money for just your car looking a little bit nicer than your neighbors. So we just want you to keep that number in mind. A hundred and seventy three.

Multiply that by whatever monthly expense you have to see what that money would grow to after ten years. It just gives you a better realization of the trade off that you're actually making in the moment. We want folks to face the facts exactly. And another fact that needs to be faced when we're talking about whether we're gonna d I Y or hire a task out is do you even have the money to spend on hiring someone? Right? Because if you don't have money in your budget, then

this becomes kind of Nolan void. It becomes not a debate anymore, we would say, don't go into debt for food delivery, or for that house cleaning, or for that card detail. If you already have credit card debt that you're working to pay off, it's important to neglect these conveniences for the time being. The frugal route is really the only one that can and should make sense for you at this point in your money journey. You can't

afford to go the spendthrift route. You know. More choices to incorporate added convenience into your life will open up as you begin to pay off that debt, but for the time being, you're just not ready to prioritize any of those other expenditures. You have to be focused, intently focused on making sure that that debt is of utmost priority. That's rights. Another way that you can determine whether you should d I WYATT or higher pro is by assessing

your own skill level. For instance, if you're not entirely handy, then it might not make a whole lot of sense for you to attempt to say d O Y a small home project and definitely not a large home project. Yeah, I mean, if you were to do that, it's probably going to feel like you're just constantly swimming up stream and things aren't just gonna work out the way you're

probably hoping that they would. There will be some instant says where you're going to just have to prioritize hiring a professional because in an effort to save money and being frugal, you might accidentally cross over into that cheap territory and this could end up actually costing you more money down the road, like pretending you're an amateur electrician and then you end up in the hospital they were burning down your house, right, And so we want to

make it clear that hiring folks with expertise can potentially, you know, save you money, especially if you don't have some specific knowledge that takes a long time to acquire. For instance, I'm thinking about like hiring an accountant could easily pay for itself. We have, i mean, for years old. This is one of those professions related to personal finance that we think is worth the money. With changing tax

laws and all the other nuances to consider. If you have a more complicated tax situation, hiring a tax professional could seriously help you out. Jaw. Another example I'm thinking of that I've been wrestling with more recently, is okay? Now, we've kind of talked about building out a small master bathroom in our house, and I am fairly confident in my abilities to look it up watching too to Reels. Call up a friend if I run into any issues. I think I could get it done. Fly Carl Chensen

down because he knows what's up. He can do some construction tourism. Come visit us down here in Atlanta. That's Mr by the way, who he had recently on the show. But just because I can get something done doesn't mean that I'm going to be able to get it done well right, or that I'm going to be able to do it artfully. Sure, I might be able to put you lay out the tile, uh, and technically it is correct. It is not going to move, It is not going to leak or crack. I don't know all the things

that tile shouldn't be doing. But that doesn't mean that it's gonna look really good in the shower because it's all crooked or whatever else. It would be arrogant on my part to think that just by looking something up, even though I might technically be able to accomplish it, that I'm able to do as good of a job as a skilled tradesman with year, like a decade's worth

of experience laying tile. And so that's something else to keep in mind is that just because you could do something doesn't mean it doesn't necessarily mean that you could do it well. And sometimes that's okay, Like sometimes the job doesn't have to be done perfectly, but sometimes you want you want it done really well. It depends on your own standards and kind of what the individual project is. But yeah, I think knowing your skill level is a huge part of deciding whether or not to t I

Y or to outsource that project, whatever it is. And I think an example, maybe on the flip side, is hiring a financial advisor. Someone who is falls more into that spendthrift camp might just assume paying someone one percent to manage their investments makes sense. Yeah, big spender over there. And I mean, like this professional they know more than you, right, I mean, of course, yeah, they they've they have gone through years of training and they do know more than

you do. But the learning curve on investing is a lot shorter than the learning curve for taxes, let's say, or for providing healthcare and going to see a doctor to diagnose your illness is that's a lot more difficult of a process than helping you the right investments. And at the same time, even if you were to hire someone, there's a good bit of learning you have to do anyway in order to know the right questions to ask.

So we think on the investing front, d I Y is the best route if you want the happy medium, the pendulum in the center. Robo advisors are great in between choice and companies like Betterment and Wealth Front are awesome picks for people who are scared off completely by

d I Y investing. I think robo advisors have been a nice addition to the space, but it's one of those things where knowing your skill level kind of assessing it and saying like what am I good at, what am I not good at, what can I easily learn, what can I get up to speed on pretty quickly, what is not going to be up to snuff, and then going from there when it comes to deciding when you hire something, when you do it yourself makes a lot of sense, And we have a few other considerations

that we want you to keep in mind as you are going to decide whether you should d o Wyatt or whether you should hire a pro. We're gonna get to those right after this break, all right, at there's more to cover about when to d I Y, when to hire a pro, and one of the next most important considerations that someone needs to make. Again, we said, if you if you're gonna go into debt for convenience sake,

that's a bad idea. But knowing your hourly rate is a huge part of knowing when it makes sense, or at least realizing how much it's actually costing you too. And yeah, when we're talking about outsourcing projects, you want to know what doll I normally get paid, what is my time kind of worth? And will actually include the formula to calculate your hourly rate in the show notes.

But basically, once you've found that out, once you've figured out how much your time is worth from a work perspective, knowing that can help you make a better decision when it comes to what projects you end up tackling yourself versus which ones you're willing to leave to the pros, for example, painting room in your house. If your hourly rate, you figured it out and you say that's roughly an hour and it's gonna take you, let's say, five hours to paint that room, but the pros down the street

will charge you two d and fifty dollars. Well, it's really helpful to know that the pros are going to cost you ten hours of your work at least before taxes, and framing it like that might help lead you in the right direction. It might lead you towards going to d I Y route because you're like, that's gonna cost me twice as much and I've got some free time, so I'm gonna be the one to tackle this page job. I'm not going to hire it out, but at least set you up with a simple equation to be able

to make a better decision. Yeah, and then what you do with the time that you've been able to salvage is really important to be proactive with. We want you to be intentional with the time. Uh you know, I mean with all your time, but when you can associate it more clearly with money that you're spending on services that you could do yourself, it is worth thinking through how am I actually gonna spend that time in a

way that's going to move the needle for for for me, personally. Uh. And on a related note, we want you to be intentionally, very intentional when it comes to your hiring because we want you to keep those areas very well defined, right Like this is similar to how we talk about spending extra money happily in just a few areas of your life,

like for us, that's craft beer. Well, the same is true of bending on convenience, because we don't want you to spend you know, on all the different conveniences that you possibly can. We want you instead to maybe pick the ones that's going to create the most time. Uh. And that's going to relieve the most stress for you, that's going to give you the best return on your

investments in your life. Because we all have to pick our battles and decide, you know, where it is that we're going to d I why it versus hiring it out. We just don't want you to fork over that money just because you can. We want you to pick those spots intentionally. Uh. And you know, one of the ways that you can decide is to consider the consequences were

you to mess things up. Is this uh an instance where if you mess it up, it's gonna be like not that big of a deal, or in the case of like self surgery, the constance the consequences could be pretty dire, right yeah, or or in in your plumbing, not as dire as self surgery yet. But but if you did it wrong and you had to rip it all up and you had to start over, you know,

it could be a whole lot of frustration. Like if you have to do the thing twice in order to get it right done right, you might have you might have thought twice about hiring the pro. But it's not gonna kill me the exactly, and it might make you stronger. But like, for instance, I had to replace the water pump and timing belt on on Homer recently, Homer's getting up there in age and it was it was time, it was leaking and there you know, you never want that.

So is it physically possible for me, Joel two D I y that repair? Yes, yes it is. YouTube videos they could have helped me see the process step by step. I'm sure someone walks me along with like lovely elevator music playing in the background on how to actually perform that repair. But this sounds like an awful job. It's one that I don't want to do. And it's also one that should last for eighty thousand miles or so. It's it's something I'll likely never have to perform on

this fan again. And also the likelihood of screwing it up is big, Like I could damage other system components if I don't do it properly, So like sell surgery, that could kill you if you messed up, if you were to do this incorrectly and decided to drive across town, you know, on the on the interstate, like you could potentially overheat and crack your engine or some right, And they're other how money listeners out there who might say, no, I could do that, Like I have the skill level

and the knowledge and the time, and so I'm willing to replace my own water pub time. For them, not that big of a deal exactly, but for me, bigger deal. So it would take me a lot of time as well, like far more than it takes my mechanic to do. And it took my mechanic basically a full day. So I'm like, all right, yeah, if it took him a day, it's gonna take me a week. And that is that's a long time. So this, of course is a great

thing for me. To let the well trained mechanic candle to hire it out, to let the pros do it. So this of course is a great thing for me to let the well trained mechanic handle. I'd be biting off more than I could chew. It's more than I feel like I could comfortably handle flying solo. And the

other thing too. You mentioned that this is something that you would do so incredibly infrequently, right, And so I think that's something else to keep in mind, is that is this a skill that you could gain, and then by gaining that skill that could potentially save you more money, say next year. I mean, this is the reason why I decided to learn how to change out my own screen on my phone. Was just thinking, yeah, because for me, like I almost saw it as like the two point

oh version of like changing your own oil. It's it's it's something that feels like, at least in our household, that's going to become more frequent. Were slowly, but you know, but surely acquiring more screens and more devices with a family of six, And so I believe that this is something I'm gonna be coming back to again and again. Uh. Not to mention the fact that the consequences aren't that aren't that huge? I mean, these parts aren't all that expensive.

I fix it online, Like, they've got great tutorials, they've got great parts and they've got great tools, so they have everything you need to It's not too bad. No, it's not at all. And so you know, so keep that in mind as well. If it's if it's gonna be a one time thing, well you know, maybe you leave it to the pros. But if it's something that you can revisit, and if there's a multiplier effect on how much money you can save you down the road, that's something you need to keep in mind as well.

And another way to decide is if you absolutely hate the task that you're looking to hire someone for. This is one of those instances where you're going to have to work really hard to be honest with yourself because you know, if you're saying, well, anything I don't want to do I hate, then my kids right there. If that's the case, like you just need a mellow out, I don't want to get dressed, just chill out a

little bit. It sounds like you're being a little do dramatic, but there are all tasks, uh, you know, chores or jobs, whatever they might be, that we loathe with a passion, and that we would rather do almost anything else, including working more hours to do which a lot of us find a lot of satisfaction in our work. And so you think, oh, I would much rather work in your example earlier, Joe, I would much rather work another five hours and have these guys paint these walls so that

I do not have to worry about it. And so if that's you, if you've identified something that you truly hate doing, then I believe you've identified a task that you hate. Uh. The one that comes to mind for in our household is Kate specifically hates vacuuming. Like literally, I can maybe count on one hand the number of times she's vacuumed our house since we've been married. Like, she just does not vacuum, and she does lots of other stuff. Mind you, I'm not trying to say this

is something I want her to change. There's Kate watching the Telling novels. Again. There she is cooking delicious food for our entire family. Again, not that giving no. Vacuuming is something that she hates with a passion. And we're a good fit because I actually kind of like vacuuming. I'm able to put the you know, my earbuds in, listen to a podcast, just kind of mellow out. Get the floors really clean is something that we've built into

our schedule. But if we weren't married, if she was married to somebody else and they also hated vacuuming, that would be something I know that she would outsource that, where she would hire a cleaning service, because she would much rather literally do anything else in the world except for vacuum floors. So whether or not you like the task at hand, your aversion to it, that's something to

keep in mind as well. Definitely factors in right and yeah, we would say, once you've eliminated some regular, unnecessary expenses, some conveniences that you have been spending on, maybe that you realize I didn't actually hate that, or maybe i'd I'd rather I'd rather save that money, I'd rather hold onto it and d I y this instead of outsourcing it.

We would say, it's important to find a better place for that money, and sometimes finding another play that is more meaningful to put that money can actually be the main reason to curb spending in this way. It's easy to puttle away some money if you lack meaningful goals. Five bucks here, ten bucks there doesn't seem like a big deal, But Matt and I are willing to go as far as saying that millionaires are made ten bucks

at a time. It is those small decisions, like the big decisions certainly add up, but those small decisions are really meaningful over time, to like that rule of one seventy three that you mentioned, Matt, and and that is why cutting these recurring expenses are are so dang crucial. Ten or twenty bucks saved on let's say a cell phone bill every single month might not seem like much, but it makes a meaningful difference in every single small

decision that you make, like that adds up. Every ten spot you save in these recurring costs can be a

building block for your financial future. And so really we would say if you can get more excited about building wealth for future you, that makes it so much easier to cut back on in the here and now having those goals and then realizing that that D I Y Y projects, not only is it maybe making you better at something like giving you the ability to tackle something difficult or at least just not succumbed to the easy route that at the same time you're saving money that's

going to give you more freedom, more choice decades down the road. I feel like making that connection is a major help in curbing some of that spending. Yeah, you know, going back to what we said earlier, if you're able bodied inconvenience isn't always going to be the worst thing for you. Modern conveniences are certainly nice. I'm not against an occasional fast food visit, UH cleaning service or different apps that make it easier to accomplish a whole slew

of tasks. When there are four out of five adults who admit to being time poor, having too much to do and not enough time to do it, it can make sense to take advantage of some of these modern conveniences that will actually allow us more freedom to say, maybe build a business or pursue other things that are going to provide much more value in our lives. But only if we actually have the money and if we've

fought through the impact of choosing the convenient path. You know, if we outsource everything UH for choosing convenience at every turn like that can have those other harmful impacts that we talked about earlier, and so appreciate the conveniences in your life that don't cost a dime. There's a lot of free things out there in the world. Question the ones that do cost money, and only incorporate the conveniences

that make financial and lifestyle sense for you. Yeah, and again, everybody's going to kind of come down in different in different realms on this. Some people are going to change their own oil regularly, They're gonna mow their online, They're gonna be Captain d I Y and other listeners out there are going to be more prone to outsourcing stuff. Maybe they'll outsource just a little bit less after after listening to this, maybe they'll question a couple of those expenditures.

And yeah, like one of those things, grocery delivery is is one that I think some people have quickly gotten accustomed to, and it's like, wait, now, let's question that again. Let's decide whether that's really worth it or not. So hopefully this gives you the framework for making better decisions when it comes to your time and money. But Matt, let's get back to the beer that we had on this episode. This one was from Bell's Brewing. It's called rind Over Matter. It's a wheat ale with lemon and

orange zest. What was your take on one? That's right, rind Over Matter, nice little pun for us. Dad's out there, So I will I'm going to say that this is a good beer out there for folks who may not like beers. This like to me, it does not have a super beery taste to it. It kind of tastes like lemonade a little bit, like it's got a little bit of tartness going on. Uh. And so just kind of wheat beers in general that have some different flavors

going on. If you're maybe at a brewery and you're with some friends and you're kind of the person who's not really into beer, but you go along with it because well, you know, my wife really likes beer, or you know my friends they really like beer, or Matt and Joel they really like beer, and so maybe I'll give this brewery a shot. Uh. Wheat beers in general it tend to be easier to approach, but certainly wheat

beers that have other flavors going on, so like this one. Certainly, the first thing you notice when you drink it is that lemon kind of lemon and orange zestiness going on a little bit of lemon pucker almost meyer lemon almost kind of actually going on, but but but not like an overly it's not overly sour. It's it's almost like you kind of give it a twist of the of

the rhine, right kind of. It's like the essence the of the orange or the oils from the lemon peel getting on there a little bit just to kind of give it some of those aromatics. Yeah, I think along with those Sitrus notes, it was really bright. And so I do think you're right this this beer is going to have a lot of wide appeal to people that might not otherwise get into the craft beer scene. This

is a good beer to start with. And and the nice thing is bells beers get distributed I think across almost every socially, wherever you live, you you should be able to get bells. So if you're one of those people who listens and you're like, I only listen for the money advice, which there are definitely some of you out there, we appreciate you bearing with listen to the beer stuff. If you wanted to give it another shot,

this might be one to try. That's right, and we're really gonna talk about beer for thirty more seconds, so bear with us. But I want to highlight the fact that this is a beer that is not an I p A. There is like no hot bitterness going on with this beer. And so if you have found yourself turned off to the different I p as, New England, Hazy I p A s, West Coast i pas, all the different styles that we like to talk about certainly

go in the direction of wheat beers. It is a very different beer than than what we often have on the show, no doubt. All right, Matt, that's gonna be it for this episode. For folks who want the show notes links to anything we mentioned, including that formula for how to calculate your hourly rate, which is huge and helping make some of these decisions. Will will have all that info up on our website at how to money dot com. That's right. And one other thing. Maybe this

is the first time you're listening to How to Money. Well, if so, make sure that you hit subscribe so that you don't miss future episodes. This is a Wednesday episode where we typically dive deep on a particular topic, but on Friday's we tend to cover the week's news, and we like to talk specifically how some of the different headlines out there, how they are going to impact your money.

And so if you go ahead and hit subscribe now, you can look forward to one of those episodes showing up in your podcastch Er in a couple of days, Joel, that's gonna be it for this episode, Buddy, Until next time, Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,