We’re Moving! Our Advice For Finding A Great Place To Live #524

about it here on the podcast. Podcast not legit, and so we talk about it on the show, and yeah, the fact is we are moving. But with that both of our families, both of our families, so that's at the same time. That's the craziest heart no surprise. This has been something that's been in the works, by the way, for or for months and months and months, and it's something that Matt and I we've been talking about, our families have been discussing together. We've been we call them

family meetings. You and Emily, when you'll sit down with me and Kate and we kind of have some of these conversations trying to figure out what our lives are gonna look like in the future. And yeah, we we have arrived to this point, and I'm really excited to talk about us personally, what we're doing, what we're going

to be up to, but also for our listeners. What we realized was that this is a great opportunity for us to talk about moving and so discuss the many factors that you need to keep in mind when it comes time to uproot and move your fing So this will be a somewhat personal episode as we talk about our own progression in this direction to leaving a neighborhood

that we love, that we really do love. That's a sad part, yeah, because I think anybody who's listening is like if you have you listening for any amount of time, like Matt ji'l always talk about how they love the talk about how your neighborhoods like Mayberry and yeah, it's like perfect and in a lot of ways true, it's incredibly idyllic. That's why we're certainly sad. But honestly, by this point in time, we we've sort of cycled through the stages of grief. We have kind of through some

of this the sadder weeks. But our family at this point is so pumped. We're so excited for what lies ahead. So I am looking forward to talking about that today. At times in this process, I was like, who am I? I I feel like I'm losing a sense of my identity. We've been in this neighborhood for for thirteen plus years. We've made a lot, We've got deep roots, like so many connections, like Derek zu Lander looking into the puddle, yes, my god, And so I am kind of looking up

looking around, and I'm like, what is going on? But there are a lot of factors, like you'll find out in this episode that led to this decision. We will discuss more. That's right, man, you have a quick hobby you want I wanted to share with you. Yeah. I haven't told you what specifically this is, but have you heard of magnet fishing before? This is something that the algorithm fed to me because they know that this is

the kind of thing I'm into. Say the past, we've talked about how I've kind of got an old soul and that pretty soon you're going to find me on the beach during vacation with the metal detective sweeping you know, combing for lost jewels and other potential treasures. Well, I came across this thing called magnet fishing, and it's basically what it is. It's like this giant, super strong magnet. It's like this I don't know, like picture of hockey puck,

maybe even bigger. But it's got a like a metal loop on it, and you tie a rope around it, and h typically, you throw it like in a river or a lake or something like that. You just kind of cast it out there and you drag it back to you and you see what cool stuff it's in the lake. Uh, but you have not done this yet. I'm guessing I have not yet done it. But I am this close to buying one of those magnets there.

They're not that expensive. But specifically in mind, instead of walking on the beach with under the hot blazing sun with a metal detector, I'm picturing, okay, or just like waiting out into the water and kind of throwing it out there. You get to stay cool because you got the waves washing over you, even if you're like out there with the kids. I'm picturing myself being able to tie it around my waist and as we slowly as

the current kind of pushes us down the beach. My super strong magnet's just looking for like lost watches or jewelry or sunglasses, just whatever might be slightly buried in the sand there. How cool is that? It's it's interesting, that's right, right, that's for sure. I'm call you Magneto. That will totally be my magnet fishing name. I'm super

excited about the idea. I'm not totally sure actually how it works, if it works well at the beach, but there are folks out there and they've got accounts dedicated to this, and folks have found everything from like, yeah, jewelry to safe that that have been thrown into rivers, to like rusty bikes to tools, sunglasses, all sorts of crazy stuff. Uh, and so I don't know, I'm fascinated by the idea of kind of scavenging with the potential

to possibly earn a little money on the side. Okay, well, any hobby that allows you to actually potentially make some money at the same time. It's almost like that, like it's like a passive hobby for yea, you know, it's just kind of like you have to be super dedicated to It's He's like, let me tossed a few. It's sort of like fishing. You don't have to be completely dedicated to maybe enjoy the process. We'll try it out this summer. Let us know how it goes. Well, I'm curious.

The first beach trip is going to be ours, and so you'll see I mean, if I do this, and we will absolutely post pictures. All right, I'm very intrigued. Everyone wants to see that. And I will say, if you're listening and this is something you've tried, let me know your tips, because I'm a total nube. All right. Well, yeah, you can always reach out to us how the Money Pod at gmail dot com. But Matt, let's mention the beer we're having on this episode. This is called Stuck

Ease Pecan log role by Wild Heaven. I said pecan. You can say pecan. I don't know. In the South it's peak and pecan, and the South, if you're a Southerner it's pecans. I think I did like very Yankee. It's I did somewhere in the middle on that pronunciation. But we'll give our thoughts on on this one. You're always living life in the gray. I am at the end of the episode. But let's get onto the topic at hand. We are talking about the fact that we're moving.

We're talking about how we decided to do that and and how you can find a great place to live. Matt. For some reason, this made me think of those progressive commercials where that that doctor is trying to prevent people from becoming like their parents. Have you seen those? Yes, they're pretty funny. They're pretty funny, and I think that's that's exactly sort of a great way to talk about moving, specifically to the burbs. Yeah, and so we are moving

to the burbs. And as kids growing up, there were things I was like, I'm never going to be like my parents in this way or that way. Whether it was the way that they didn't explain, maybe the reasoning behind the decision they were making and they just said because I said so, or maybe it was like the way they dressed or the way they decided to do certain things. It was like, I'm not gonna be like my parents in that way, Like I'm never gonna wear socks with sandals. Look at you today, just my uncle

and not my dad. But yes, actually I might actually wear socks about sandals. My daughter does. Was this close to doing it during date night the other week, but Kate talked me out of it. Yeah, well it was wise. I was getting ready to make a statement, all right. So, uh so we're talking about how for for so many of us as we get older and we end up adopting some of those things that are that we said we never would do. Right. I tell my kids to do things just because I said so, And that's something

I said I would never do. So I am now a fraud, I'm a phony. But yeah, as it turns out, what we're talking about today, we're talking about taking page maybe out of our parents playbook to a certain degree, you know, doing something we said we never do. And we'll talk about some reasons for that as well as hopefully just some helpful ways to think about where you

might want to live. On the show today, we're gonna list a number of factors and kind of push you towards developing a system for how you think about where you're going to like live and raise your family and exist for a period of time. It doesn't have to be forever, but we want to make sure that we're thinking about where we live thoughtfully. That's right. Yeah, And aside from the fact that this is a topic that

is incredibly relevant for us these days. We wanted to talk about choosing the right place to live because this is a huge decision that's going to have massive ripple effects in virtually every every area of your life. But the fact is, for virtually everyone listening to this episode, the cost of housing is likely your number one line item on your budget. Uh. This is one of the

reasons we like house hacking so much, right. Uh, the ability to take a top expense and pull like a jiu jitsu move on it and all of a sudden flip it on its head and it's making you money. It's why we love that strategy so much, because putting

a roof over your head is incredibly expensive. And then in addition to that, we've got this insane housing market with the astronomical run up in housing prices over the past eighteen months or so, and then on top of that, ortgage rates they have shot into the stratosphere, just complicating the decision even more. And so I believe that's it's only appropriate for us to tackle this topic today. Yeah, so we'll talk about the money considerations, of course, because

we're out of money. That you should be making before you uproot yourself and you move somewhere new. But we'll we'll go beyond that. We'll talk about how where you live ends up impacting your quality of life too, because at the end of the day, right, the entire purpose of our show is not purely to focus on financials, but it's how but it's how your money can impact

your quality of life too. And so because at the end of the day, the entire purpose of our show is is to help you achieve the goals live the life you want to lead, and money is obviously a big part of that. Earning more, investing as much as you can, spending less. These are these are just the tools and strategies that are going to allow you to

reach higher degrees of financial freedom. Ultimately, that's not what life is all about, though, right having the most money in the bank account, you know, how you spend your time, the people and the environment you surround yourself in, Uh, that the experience you're able to participate in. That that is what makes life special. And so, yeah, what it is that you choose to value, that's up to you.

But we're hoping to give you some good thoughts on how to go about evaluating where you want to live. We're all going to come down, uh, in different places based on this methodology. Not everyone prioritizes the same things the same way. Not everybody prioritizes craft beer like that's right, Yeah, how close are you to a few great breweries that might be important on Matt and I scale, but maybe not as much on yours. Yeah, And this is a topic that has likely been on the minds of a

lot of people over the past couple of years. Specifically, you know, like like many folks who had never considered moving to Montana or to Idaho, they suddenly found themselves dreaming of a different kind of life. Some folks want that big sky country seriously. Yeah, Yeah, I think there are a lot of folks who absolutely loved living in a dense urban locale. They decided that it wasn't what

they wanted anymore. We're seeing some some seismic shifts and how and where it is that people want to live, largely in response to the pandemic and just this repriorities nation that has taken place in our lives. And I think we definitely fall into that camp. But a lot of rural towns are are seeing an influx of folks who are looking to change things up. They're looking to lower the cost of living. So it's top of mind for sure. That is another reason that we wanted to

talk about this today. Yeah, it's been interesting to see where people are moving because you're right, Idaho, Montana or high on that list, but even small towns that are like an hour and a half outside of Nashville that you would never have expect is on the radar of

a young millennial or gen Z or like those. Those Some of those towns are popping too, and largely because the work from any Anywhere climate has created a surge of interest in cheap living in some of these small towns that are close enough to the big city but still have a lot of natural beauty to offer. And so we're gonna talk about this in a holistic way. We'll share the different reasons when a move makes sense,

as well as how to do it affordably. Matt, there's a bunch of rip offs that that can and do happen in the moving industry. We're gonna cover those later, how people can make sure they don't fall victim. But really we're gonna talk about is developing a system when it comes to choosing where you're going to live. You know, it's a good thing to have an idea about what region of the country you'd like to live in, even a specific city, but then zeroing in on a few

neighborhoods where you'll start house hunting. That's a solid tactic whether you're renting or buying, and if you're moving to a completely new place. You know, we always always recommend running for at least six months. This really helps you get a feel for the specific location where you prefer to live. You know, just in that brief period of exploration, you're gonna find maybe even down to a specific street level or small neighborhood where you exactly want to be

the best place for you and your family. There's a lot to consider, obviously, but we're gonna try to break it down to the high points, like the most important things that should that should be on your radar as you're kind of thinking about where you want to live. That's right, and they're definitely the factors that went through our minds as we you know, ran this decision through the gauntlets of our of our decision making process, um and so this wouldn't be how the money, of course,

if we didn't consider the financial implications. So let's kick it off. We got to mention that one of the ways that you might narrow in on a specific group of states or even cities is to consider the cost of living. Most folks know that it's it's likely going to cost a lot more to live in California than Alabama or Mississippi. But you should dig into the numbers and see what the cost of living looks like in

specific cities or towns even within that state. Seen in money, they actually have a great cost of living calculator that will help you to see how much more or honestly even how much less everything will cost in specific cities. Will make sure to link to that in our show notes. But as a general rule of FuMB, you can always count on the cost of living being higher in more urban and more metropolitan areas versus more rural areas out

in the country. Yeah, so let's keep talking about the money portion matt of how you make a decision, because you have cost of living is huge part of what influences the cost of living is how much you're gonna pay in taxes and you know, obviously it would be ridiculous to solely base your decision around where you move based on taxes. It sounds like something Matt and Joel would do. No, it doesn't at all. Actually, I think some people might pigeon holes, and I think they get

like that might be like the knee jerk reaction. But we truly are thinking about so much more than just the cost of living, even though that is something that is sway our decisions slightly. For sure, we're gonna save money ultimately in this move. We're moving to a place it's going to be a little bit cheaper for us

and for our family. But when it comes to taxes, like to say, more affordable, more affordable, yeah, and so yeah, when we're talking about taxes, that is an important decision maker, right because let's say you live in California, but you decide to move to Tennessee or Florida, you are going to save a boatload every single year on your state income tax bill. That's right, Florida, Texas, Tennessee. There's a number of states where you don't have to pay any

income tax. You do not pay state taxes. I believe Washington State is another no income tax state. So yeah, it's it's one of those things where sure it's nice to note that, and you might add a slight waiting to some of those locations because of that, because yeah, the discrepancy in state income tax can be a big deal. It can add up. But yeah, similarly, it's it's not a bad idea to look up where your new state ranks when it comes to property taxes, because you don't

want to look at just income taxes. There are different ways, and and even sales tax to Matt because you know where we live now that the sales taxes right in the nine percent range, and some states have a zero sales tax when you're buying things. So those are all things you're gonna want to keep in mind. Of course, if you're leaving behind a great community or you know, close family relationships, the money you save isn't going to be worth the trade off when you're talking about reducing

your your tax burden. Taxes are not a good reason to uproot your family, but it's also not an insignificant factor when we're talking about, you know, why we decide where we live. Cost of living in taxes are important monetary considerations when we're thinking about where we're gonna end up. That's right. And tax Foundation dot org they actually have a bunch of different charts. They've got a map where they show your state income tax. They've got a map

that shows how much your map. Yeah, literally, it's it's colored where you can easily see the states where you are paying more in taxes. So we'll make sure to link to that as a quick little reference. But Joel, we've got tons of other factors to consider, uh, and not just money factors. There are a number of lifestyle considerations before you make that move, and so we'll get

to all of those right after this. All right, that we are back, and yes, there are a lot of lifestyle considerations that you have to take into account, including you know, how many breweries per capita, crap breweries are nearby where you're planning to move to. I was a part of the reason that we were very interested in moving to North Carolina. Yes, it's like home. Maybe we should go to Raley. Looks how many berries there are there.

But before we get to those lifestyle considerations, there is one more financial consideration that's ridiculously important when we're talking about where you end up. And that is where the job's at. Because if there is not a robust amount of jobs where you're looking to move, that could massively influence your decision. You know, we we actually mentioned the

resurgence of small towns just a little bit ago. You know that this has largely been made possible because of full time work from home becoming a reality for tens of millions of folks. They didn't have the luxury three years ago of leaving their big town and moving somewhere less expensive because they had to be where their employer was. But because of these changes in the fact that you know, a lot of folks don't have to be in the city where their employer is, people are leaving, they're moving.

It's it's like a diaspora where people are moving all across the country into towns that nobody was even considering just a few years ago. And and so yeah, that being said, city centers still offer the best access to the highest paying jobs, especially if you're starting out in your career or if you're looking to move up the ladder more quickly. We would suggest looking for locations where you're gonna have more choice when it comes to where

you work or what you do. And so a recent wallet hub study actually found that the best places to start a career are Salt Lake City, Orlando, Atlanta, Austin, and Seattle. And those are all pretty major markets, right there,

pretty big places. And so where you live has certainly a little bit less to do with the kind of job you're going to be able to get, but that's still an important factor, and especially if you're the kind of person who isn't planning on working from home, taking stock of the job scene before you like start to

plant your roots is really important, that's right. Yeah, So it's not just about the cost of living, how much money you are spending every single month, but the amount of money that you might be earning the future potential two of the money that you might be earning over the years. Yeah. I think our fine city of Atlanta was number three on that list. Which there's just so

so many great employers here. I was just talking to someone the other day who works at the new Microsoft office in Atlantic Station, and there's just there's so many fortune companies. There's so much opportunity for people to move with the ladder, to find gainful employment and to earn more money here. That's right, Yeah, so join us down here in the great city of Atlanta. By the way, we're not moving. We're not even the greater Atlanta areas,

so it's just the run. Yeah. Just in case folks were thinking that we might be like moving to Washington, like you said or something like that, that is not the case. Uh. But of course money is not the only factor to consider when deciding where to live. You'll definitely want to consider how much space that you're gonna need.

And we're talking about square footage of the house itself, how that square footage is allocated, how usable the spaces, but also we're talking about how big the lot is, you know what, what sort of ability you'll have to plan a garden, order to have a basketball goal for some of those one on one games. You know, As a culture, I think we've placed too much importance on just having quote unquote like more space. It's always more

and more and more. We don't like that. But but having a good idea of how much and what kind of space that you'll need, I think that will help a ton and picking a great place to live. This is absolutely one of the top reasons that folks move because they're oftentimes looking for not just more space, but a space is going to suit them better. Yeah. I like what you said about how that square footage is allocated.

It because sometimes a square foot house can serve you better than square foot house just because of the way the space is laid out. And I've seen some really efficient, really incredible designs on some of those smaller homes that make a lot of sense for the way like our family lives, whereas some bigger homes just it's like an inefficient use of space. It feels like a waste. But yes,

so the space is obviously an important consideration. You don't want to move your family of six into eight d square feet And we actually has a family five lived in nine hundred square feet for a minute and that was too tight. We realized that we don't want to do that again. Well, yeah, you knew there was a temporary deal, but even that, I don't think you would sign up for even a temporary gig one week maybe thatt if you had a choice, No, I would not.

So another another top reason, according to multiple surveys, is that folks that folks often move has to do with relationships. Of course, makes tons of sense, right, you know, similar to needing more space potentially oftentimes, you know, wanting to be closer to family is the impetus that causes as someone to move or moving across the country because of a budding relationship. And you know, we love our family, so it's no wonder that we'd want to be closer

to them if at all possible. And that is actually part of the reason for our move where our family is going to be closer to my parents. And so if you don't have to be a twelve hour drive away, well then maybe it's time to move. And so don't discount your relationships. Don't discount platonic relationships as well, you know, as as we get not just family, but like yeah, your friends, Yeah, being closer to friends, moving back to a city maybe where you have more roots, especially if

it's like coming back home or something like that. Especially let's say you're starting a family, you've got young kids. Being closer to folks who you have deep relationship with your family or friends or both is something that makes a big difference when it comes to quality of life. And as besties, I can say that this is one area that we can really speak to because I mean with us moving together. This makes it tremendously easier. I mean,

we've been friends for over a decade now. I would say that we've been besties for the majority of that time, but that as you and me are, why are best friends, Our kids are best friends. So we were doing this separately and moving through different places, my gosh, it would be hard. Yeah, it would be incredibly hard. And I wonder if just folks think that we're just like like we pretend to be friends, like like on TV, but we we truly are and this wee's been listening for

any length the time. They know that this is an important factor when this is why we had so many of those meetings to kind of talk through the details of us because it's incredibly complicated, but it was also really important to make sure that we were doing this right. It's even more complicated when we run a business together and we have a podcast and so we have to I mean, there's a lot like that whole side of it. Yeah, exactly.

We've already talked about the job aspect of you know, moving. Granted, being podcasters, we weren't necessarily tied to a location. That was one of the things I will say that actually made it easier to pull the trigger on this. This move was you and I don't We can work from wherever we want exactly, so because I've been wanting to kind of do that for a while because even you know, back in the day with photography, I wasn't necessarily beholding to a specific location. But it's like, oh man, but

we're here in this neighborhood. It's like Mayberry, we love it here. Uh seven. Still, you were in Atlanta, photographer, and so you couldn't have moved too far away, exactly unless you wanted to start from a lot of people commute in for for shoots once a week, and you know, once a week commute where you're driving an hour. I mean, that's I'm not going to say that that's ideal, but for a lot of folks, it's uh, definitely doable given the cost of living where they where they do live.

But as we're talking about relationships, and it also makes me think about empty nesters, because that's a way that relationships change. You might be like a six bedroom house, not that you or I are getting homes that are that big, but if you are an empty nester, your kids are no longer there. You might realize that, oh, we actually don't need to be bouncing around this this house that's made for a growing family. And so I mentioned that because for our older listeners, I think that's

definitely a great reason to consider moving to downsize. Yeah, we toured, actually met a few homes that were in that five thousand plus square foot range, and I was I was just not having any of it. It's like, is it a warehouse? I know? And then the basement was so big and I'm like, well, I don't even know what we do with the space. No, please show me things that are, you know, in the square foot range. So that's what we said, don't on to something that's

very normal in size. But I just, I mean, I don't know what people do. Do you send your kids to the east wing of the house like when you don't want to speak to them or something like? It felt it felt too big for for me. Absolutely. Yeah. So community that is another big part of making a place that you land feel like home. But it can be hard to assess what the community vibe is going

to be like before you move in. And so one way that you can get at least an inkling is by seeing how many public spaces exist in the neighborhood that you're interested in. So the more parks or the more playgrounds and trails that you encounter, I think, the more likely you are to see your neighbors. How much life is being lived in the front yards as opposed to the basements of those five thousands were foot homes, Joel,

where you don't see anyone. The more sidewalks you see, the more likely you are to bump into new neighbors and and old friends on an evening walk. I mean, it's amazing in our current neighborhood that we're leaving. Just having a church with a great parking lot in a playground in the center of the neighborhood, it just has fostered so many her hangs and in a significant way, it's it's sort of like the heart geographically speaking of the neighborhood. And so spaces like that truly do matter.

And the sidewalks. We've got sidewalks on both sides of the street, basically on every street around here. And so what did neighbors do They walk? And so I see people out all the time when I'm on my bike or when I'm walking with my kids, and it just it creates impromptu community community conversations that are honestly just as good, if not better than some of the planned conversations. And the plan hangs on a back porch or from

ports or something. And sometimes that spontaneousness that's what you need in your life. Man, that's right. So so much of our lives are already planned and on the calendar. It's good to have these avenues that exist to foster

that kind of relationship. Yeah, I love that. So another thing that, of course we think is important is walkability and bike ability, whether you're renting or you're buying a place that That's another thing we haven't really talked about much here, Matt, is you don't necessarily have to be buying a house in order to be thoughtful about where

you're gonna live. You can be a thoughtful renter and you can decide to uproot and move somewhere else and find a new place to land to as someone who is still signing let's say, a year long lease, I think most of what we've talked about so far today, I mean, it's it's universal, right, and like it applies to you if you're looking to rent or if you're looking to buy exactly, and and so walk ability bike ability apply to everyone too. We think those are both

worthy things to prioritize. And so whether that means being able to bike to your actual place of work, or just like a couple of great brewers and restaurants that you love that you feel like you're going to frequent a lot because that's the kind of life you're living right now, that's great, Or whether it's walking distance to a playground for your kids. I mean finding something you can you can't be you can't be walking distance or

biking distance to everything. But as long as you've got a few things that you can consistently hit up that are meaningful, prioritizing some proximity to some of those things that you value is is important. And maybe it's just nature right that you want to be closer to, like a national or a state park. You know, there's actually evidence, Matt that that living closer to nature reduces stress and increases happiness. So I like that kind of an Those

are the kind of studies that I look for. Yeah, just back up my current way of thinking then, and I like it. Cherry picking a little bit here for sure, But that again was something that you and I discussed. Being in town Atlanta, there are a decent number of parks and trees, but still we weren't close enough to some of the nature things that we were wanting. And so where we're moving, just twenty five minutes away, gives

us access to some of that. Yeah, but even if getting outside, if that's not your thing, focus on whatever it is that's going to move the needle for you. You're like, no, I'm playing Xbox twelve hours a day. I don't need that nature the metaverse, So focus on

whatever it is that that you enjoy the most. Uh. But speaking of kids and playgrounds, schools, they are something else that you're gonna want to consider, honestly, even if you don't, you know, have kids or even plan on having kids, because how good the schools are where you end up moving is going to inevitably affect the value of your home. You know. I think this probably applies a little bit more to the homeowners to the home

buyers out there. But you can find helpful school rankings on Great School School Digger are both sites out there that helped to compare apples to apples when it when it comes to schools, but I mentioned this one because this is a factor that Kate and I didn't consider at all when we bought our first home. That being said, kay, now we I think we kind of lucked out and we did happen to fall in a zone or a district for a school that is highly rated, that is

rated well, that is highly sought after. But keep that in mind because not only is it going to affect resale, but even if you're going to keep that property, uh, if you are going to consider renting that, that is also going to have an impact on the rents that you're going to be able to bring in because folks they want to live in this in the neighborhood where we live because they want their kids to be able

to get into that school. So aside from the fact that this is more of a lifestyle thing where your kids might end up going to school, if it's not, it'll at least come around, uh, and it will influence the finances and it could go and probably should go without saying, but I'm a saying anyway. Also, when the school district that you end up in, if you have kids,

it's gonna turn where they go to school. For the most part, unless you live in municipality or a state where they're is greater access to school choice, which is a great thing. Uh, you are typically bound to the nearest school to where you live, and so the type of education that your kids receive is largely determined based on the kind of school. Even maybe even just the the academic approach of that school can differ. It might not even be that it's rated higher, but you might

just say I really like the methodology. That that's the differences style of school instead, And that can be a big difference maker in where and why you decide to move. So that makes me think that maybe we should divulge a little bit more about why we're deciding to move, because we've covered a bunch of those factors that are

worth considering. There's some financial factors, there are some lifestyle considerations that you really should take into account before you decide to pull the trigger higher the moving company and just peace out and move across the state lines or even just up the road within your state to a

new neighborhood. We'll talk more about our decision for moving, and we'll talk about how you can move without getting ripped off right after this, alright, we're back from the break, and now that we've discussed the framework for picking an awesome place to live, let's go ahead and like you said, you let's get personal. Let's uh discuss our move here

for a second. And so, how do many listeners If you've been listening to the podcast, for those who have sharp ears, you may have heard recently me talking about the fact that we did purchase a home. And if you've got really sharp ears, you may have even remembered me talking about potentially even like moving someplace that has mountains. Was sometime last year, I remember talking about moving out

to Boise. I think we had actually we had a listener who was in Boise and I told you Boise is way too expensive, and it is actually so is Denver. These were all locations that Kate and I that we've always sort of dreamed about moving to because of the proximity to mountains into nature. We always, for instance, we always thought we would end up in sort of the wester or North Carolina area. We both worked up around Asheville. I used to live in Black Mountain for a little

bit back in the day. But given the many factors that we just talked through, it was gonna mean that we're further from family. It was gonna mean that we were potentially going to rupture relationships that we have with your family, not to mention the business as well. And so we started thinking, Okay, where is somewhere that we can at least be a little bit closer to nature.

And so that is what kept us closer to home, closer to where we are right now, to where we're actually recording this episode, but still much closer to uh a state you know, state and national parks where we can literally hike from our house and start hiking, versus commuting in the van on the weekends, which is what we typically do to drive somewhere to go hiking. And you're not going to spend that time basically every weekend.

And so yeah, to think that this new mountain, you know, right around the corner, literally walking distance from your house, is your new playground, is so so big for your famis it's a huge. And I mean, of course not only that schools. We kind of touched on that earlier before the break as well. That's something that was it wasn't important when we bought our first home, but then we quickly it kind of quickly rose and rank as to how much importance and how much stress we put

on that. And as we've grown our family though, as we've had more kids, it's become more and more of a priority. And so work with you having four kids that need to get educated, me having three, the school decision makes even more of an impact on how we view it, at least at this point in time. And Matt, you mentioned that the school our kids go to, it's highly rated, highly sought after, it's been a good place.

But then I talked about how different styles of education can make a difference, and so that was actually one of the major reasons to precipitate us moving. And as any parent knows who has had virtual school and all that stuff, it has shed some light on how the inner workings maybe of the school that that your kid goes to, and it's maybe made you think a little bit differently about how you want their education to go

in the future. It certainly did for for the two of us, Matt, for our fans, and and so that was that definitely factored in. But but there's a lot of these things where the things that you and I that we prioritize the most highly about the neighborhood where we currently live, the community aspect that is so ingrained in the fabric of this place where we live. We wanted to find a similar place that had maybe some

of these other characteristics that we love. We didn't want to give it all up, and we didn't want to give up some of the city vibes, and so we're able to keep actually I think a lot of that where we're moving to just minutes away, and so, um, these are the kind of things where it's a tough decision in there's trade offs because there's always gonna my

favorite breakfast place. I'm leaving it behind. I'm gonna miss homegrowing like like it's my job, that place of place, the best one of our favorite breweries with the best merch in the entire country. That's right, We're not gonna be able to bike there anymore. So there's definitely some things like that we're sad about, but there's a lot that we're excited about too. So. But again, the fact that we're able to do this together, Like honestly, that's

what sort of sealed the deal. Like that was going to be so difficult, and that's why we wanted to highlight, Like you said, Joe Thos, platonic relationships because as you know, as we get older, I think it's just it's not it's really hard to maintain closer relationships, especially as men. As we get older oftentime, we're not going out of

our way to make new friendships. And so if we don't intentionally foster and nurture the relationships that you do have, I think a lot of times folks find themselves in middle age alone, you know, with that without friends. And that's certainly something that you and I we never talked about this on our show. On the show actually friendship

and how important that is. We should we totally should literally say best friends out at the end of every We have talked about the declining American friendship because the average person used to have something like three and a half close friends and now have like one point six or one point seven. We have talked close friends, and so there is a decline, I think. And and so this community that the focus in the spotlight we shine on community and friendship, we think is crucial. That that's

true wealth right there is having close community, close family. Uh, the more you can foster that, the richer you're gonna feel even if your bank account is just you know, even if financially actually you're broke. Yeah, we watch it up both ultimately, but like that, that's even more important really in our book. That's right man. All right. So, once you've decided that you are going to make the move, you know you've determined specific city or better yet, maybe

you've determined a specific neighborhood. Uh, let's let's talk about what's next. Because you might be saying, well, the supply of homes where I want to live is low. How can I find the right place for me in this market? Well, it's crucial to make sure that you have an agent who specializes in the area where you want to live. Joel Unite. We we both have a killer agent who has helped us both by multiple properties in town where we currently live everything from the homes. Uh we live

into the homes that our investment properties. But honestly, we didn't even consider using her at all for purchasing our homes out in the bourbs. It's it's a completely different market out there, and we wanted an expert who lives and who breathes the exact place we were hoping to land, and it's a completely different market out there, and we wanted an expert who lives and breathe the exact place that we were hoping to land. We want somebody who

knows your target neighborhood inside. And now, can I just say to by the way, you keep saying the burbs, and I think I've mentioned it too, and we are moving to somewhere that's not that's heart of the city, right, But it's also there's a difference I think between where we're moving and just complete suburbia. I don't know, maybe not because it still has soul. That's part of the identity I was talking about, and that made it so

difficult to move. We're moving into like actually a mid century house in an older neighborhood that is not too far from a suburban towntown. Sure. Yeah, so let's put this out there for the record. We're not moving into McMansion that are all cookie cutter, and not that there's anything against that, but that that is not what we

were looking for, either one of us. What we're looking for in the type of that we were looking We have sung the praises about our super old bungalows and I'm excited to be moving into an old house again, because I just have an affinity for old houses, even if they cost you more in the long run. And yeah, we're talking about an agent. Matt, the agent we went with, He does just that, right. He lives in the same neighborhood basically that you're moving to. Literally, yeah, and he great.

Local real estate agents often have a network that impacts their ability to find you a home, sometimes that they're able to get you into a property even before it hits the market. That happened in your case, didn't it match that He was able to say, like, listen, I know these folks they're about to sell. They told me about it, and you know what, if you want to

take a look, you get first DIBs. Exactly. Yeah, I mean so yeah, Literally, that happened for us, and it can be you at least have first crack at it, right, And I think that's just especially given the market that

we've had. It does seem like things are starting to cool off a little bit, But the competition was fierce this pass spring, and the ability, like I don't necessarily think we're getting a killer deal because we were needing to pay a premium for them to not list the house on the market, right, And so in some in one sense, maybe we slightly overpaid because who knows, we never got to see what the competition was gonna look like.

But on the other hand, we also didn't get to see what the competition was gonna look like, which meant that more than likely I think we were able to slightly under pay for what that home would have gone for. But either way, having somebody who knows the specific area and knows of not just pocket listings, but listings that may not even be listings yet, you know, like like these are folks who are just like you know, we've been thinking about moving. That's why souch, you can take

care of you. Yeah. And if we had used our agent, who was a great agent, but she doesn't know, Yeah, for this part of town, it would have been, it would have been, it would have worked out the same way. And and okay, one other thing I wanted to mention too, and can you talk about your guerilla marketing campaign to try to buy a house. And you you identified some specific homes and properties and some specific lots that you fell in love with the most, and so you started

writing letters sticking in mailboxes, talking to neighbors. You weren't just content to pull up Zillo every day and see what popped up exactly. You were kind of like attacking the market to try to find what you wanted specifically.

That I think that's why it's so helpful to know exactly where you're hoping to land right, because you can go literally it's a specific homes, which is what we did, and we got to meet and even though it didn't work out right in the end, we actually ended up purchasing a home that we hadn't specifically targeted, but it's still an awesome house in this right neighborhood that we're

hoping to land in. But even though it didn't pan out for you know, for those specific homes that we targeted, we're still we're at least friends with those folks and they are now our neighbors, and we have, like we've already, we've still been in touch with them. But the fact is, were they on the brink of considering to move or not, I think there's a good chance that we may have been able to to do a similar off market deal.

And basically that's a tactic that real estate and message use all the time, like they're they're farming the market, they're on door, they're sending out flyers trying to find that one percent of people who are willing to sell them the house based on getting that in their mailbox. And you were looking for the same thing, but as a primary homeowner. And I think that's actually really interesting tactic that that some people who are looking for a

specific kind of property can use. It's not always going to work, but it's it's worth a shot. Let's talk about moving for a second map, because when we're talking about finding a place that you want to live, moving is clearly a part of the hassle. And it can be expensive to using your own vehicle or a U haul, asking for a few friends to help you move in exchange for like pizza and beer. That works really well in your twenties and not so much as you get older.

You know, you and me, we were knocking on the door forty and so we had to budget more for our move. Especially, by the way, if you're not staying local, it's it's gonna cost more. And and I actually like the idea of running your own U haul and then hiring someone actually you hall has a moving help service. That's great for finding local folks. I've done that myself, and you can get a few people to come help you move relatively inexpensively, and you rent the truck yourself.

And you did that a couple of times in the past few years and multiple times. And here's the thing. Finding a good mover for a bigger trip, especially one that's taking you to a new state, is actually something that can be fraught with peril. Though, So if you're hiring movers, professional movers, make sure they are certified pro

movers at moving dot org. This this certification is awarded by the American Trucking Association to companies who have to pass like a rigorous set of standards and so ethical standards as well. Right, Yeah, and so there's uh. Plus, they look at the history of the moves they've done, they talked to previous customers. They are thorough, and so if you find a moving company who is a vetted pro mover, you can know with relative certainty that this

is a company you want to do business with. Matt, you and I, we of course prioritize that we found high quality, certified pro movers who happen to be really affordable and are helping us move up relatively inexpensively. So I just want to put that out there. If you're looking to hire a mover, it's easy to get taken advantage of, but just only confining your search to pro movers is one way that you're going to ensure that

you're doing business with the good guys. And by the way movers are, it seems like they're thrilled to give you estimates, but you want to make sure that you get a binding estimate, and because this actually protects you from extreme deviations that can occur if a mover only provides a non binding estimate. But by doing that that puts you in the best position. And don't ever pay a down payment to a mover for their services. This

is a big, big red flag as well. And one other thing worth mentioning when it comes to your move is that you should try to purge as much as possible before you leave. Joel, I think this folks might also other sharp listeners out there might be may have picked up on the fact that we have been selling a good amount of stuff that you've basically meant to

sell yourself. Challenge and I kind of reverse half for myself because I was like, Okay, we have to start unloading things because I don't want to be in a situation where we're either donating things to charity, which is totally fine, but I would rather see it to go to someone who's willing to pay me a small fee where they're really excited to have that item and cash to charity instead. Man, that is true, but this can be a perfect chance to donate and sell that old

stuff that can help even pay for this move. Fewer boxes means a less expensive move overall, and since the average move it costs something around, cutting that bill down in any way that you can is wise. But definitely don't sell your stuff in order to buy all new stuff when you get to your new place, and that would probably be far worse from a money standpoint. Try as much as possible to keep your old stuff that

is still in good working order. We just want you to resist the urge to just completely upgrade by all new furniture. We're gonna get this room to deliver like brand new house where new people now. That is that is what we want you to try to avoid. Well, that's one of the downsize of those much larger homes Matt. That's why I like the fact that we're staying in a very similar square footage because it's like, there's not

much need for us to buy anything else. We kind of have all the stuff that we've got, the beds and the couches and chairs and all that stuff already. We don't need to upgrade anything that you don't have those How are we going to outfit the west wing? Questions? Or the basement that is the size of my current home, Like, when are we gonna put down there? I have no idea.

So yeah, I think that's a that's a good A good call is is selling things that you can so that you're moving less overall, so it's gonna cost you less. And so let's talk about moving to matt in a hot market when prices are high. They have been rents, rents have gone up to and I've even seen people talk about bidding wars for certain homes when it comes

to renting. So people are just that desperate for for certain houses in certain areas, and so it's I will say this was a massive needle that our families had to thread over a series of of multiple months, or a tiny needle we had a thread. It was the smaller the needle, the harder. That's that's a good point, yeah,

and thank you for that. So, yeah, there was a lot of uncertainty along the way as we were moving forward, and you might actually be thinking that maybe we've lost our how the money cred because we seem like you're buying at the wrong time. I bought homes at the peak of the market. Maybe. But a couple of things to note on that front is, well, who knows whether this is the peak or if we're going to see home prices continue to climb maybe for the next few

years or even the next decade. It's tough to know. And we've talked about the underlying demographics and the housing shortage that we think they're there. We're not. We're definitely not in how bubble, but it's hard to know whether home prices are going to come down in the near future or not. And the other thing is we're fortunate enough to already own our own homes and that means that we have the ability to take advantage of the

hot housing market. On the flip side of the equation, yeah, I mean, we're we're having to pay a premium, right to get our homes, but we're also getting a premium so for I mean us specifically, like we're we we sold our home, we are under contract, were pending, and so we're we're kind of swapping one seemingly overpriced home for another. Even though that being said, we are moving to a more affordable location, so we're actually paying less

overall four our housing costs. And I'm doing the crazy thing and trying to rent out our current home so at all ending another unit to my rental portfolio. So it's one of those things where we're trying to make lemonade out of lemons with the hot housing market, and it's it's certainly a hard time to move. It's a really hard time to try to get two families to move within a relatively uh short distance of each other.

But unreal we pulled it on somehow. It Yeah, we you have been able to manage it wild maintaining our friendship, uh the podcast and continuing to release good content. So I mean, picking the right place to live. It's it's more of an art honestly than a science. Um. But that being said, if you're a type a person, you might even want to create something a little nerdy or something like a weighted scale that considers all of these factors to help you to numerically represent which communities and

which specific houses make sense to you. And remember, money is an important factor in deciding where to live. Of course, we don't want you to rent or buy somewhere that's going to bust your monthly budget, but money is not the most important reason to move or to stay put. We're gonna be moving here in a couple of weeks, and it's it's kind of a stressful time moving. It's widely considered to be one of the most stressful life events. It's up there, I think, with the loss of a

loved one. And so here's to hoping we don't move again anytime soon. And for those out there who are also looking to move in the near future, we wish you the best of luck in finding a home and specifically in finding a community where you your family can thrive as well. Yep, so hopefully we dished enough personal information and also gave you a lot to think about when it comes to buying or renting and when where

you're gonna end up. And I think, Matt, more people have been thinking about it, and more people will continue to think a little more deeply about why they live where they live. They'll start to question is this is actually this is actually where I want to be, Or do I actually want to live in a small town on the edge of a national forest, or do I want to live in the heart of downtown in a studio apartment because I'm walking distance to three great craft breweries.

I mean like, it's all going to be individualized and everyone's going to have a different take, which is great. But factor these things in for yourself. We'll we'll have a list in our show notes on how to money dot Com of all the factors that we mentioned, so you can kind of come up with a chart for yourself as you're making these assessments. But Matt, let's get back to the beer that we had on this episode. This is called Stuck Ease Pecan log Roll by a

Wild Heaven. What were your thoughts on this beer. I'll say it was pretty tasty. It's a fairly unique beer. Like they don't say on the can what type of beer it is, but if I had to just cry it, I would say like it has more brown ale characteristics, uh than than a stout because it doesn't have some of those big, robust flavors that come with a stout. Drinks more like a brown ale to me, like a

light nutbrown ale, you know that's true. And I feel like it kind of has a fluffy nous to it, like it almost tastes like there's a little bit of marshmallow. A lot of times marshmallow can be added to stouts, typically as an adjunct, to kind of give it some of that white fluff flavor. And it makes sense too specifically for this beer because this is so stuck ease.

It's like a gas station. It's like a truck stop chain that originated down in South Georgia, and they have these pecan log rolls that you could buy there at those gas stations. And so this is actually a collaboration with Stucky specifically in Wild Heaven, to create this beer that makes it taste like you just pulled over in South Georgia. I guess it got a snack and got a log roll from the gas station, which I don't even know if I've ever even had one of these.

I think I have. You have seen them before, did yeah? Right? Just to be a true Georgian, we would always if I was ever wanted, like the splurge when I was growing up was if my parents got one of the deep fried apple pies like in the wax paper. That sounds good, dude. Those were my jam and I still love those to this day. It's why my favorite donut is an apple fritter, because you get that deep fried

with the apple flavors and the cinnamon. So I can't imagine myself going for the pecan roll pecon log roll over a deep fried apple pie. But the next time I see what, I'm gonna have to get one just too. I give it a shot, no doubt. Yeah, I thought this one was was tasty and pecans they're a classic Georgia staple, and so is on this episode where we're staying put in Georgia. It's only appropriate migrating a little bit north. Uh, it was only appropriate, I agree. So

that's gonna do it for this episode. For folks who want the show notes and links to some of the things we mentioned in this episode, you can find those on our website at how to money dot com. That's right, So that's gonna be it for this episode, Joel. Until next time, Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out, m