The Truth About Debt Consolidation #077

kind of one of those tricky subjects. There's a lot to consider before you consolidate any of your existing consumer debt. But it is also something that especially for people paying high interest rates on their debt, it's something that they des probably want to figure out. So yeah, I think it's gonna be a good up quickly before we get

to that, Matt, what you got for us? I wanted to mention I just this past weekend sprayed for pests at my house and so if people aren't aware doing your own pest control, We've written about that on the website and it is something that can save you hundreds of dollars a year, and it's actually really doesn't take that much effort to do it. So I just want to say, man, I got out my gloves, makes my solution.

Did the spraying around the exterior of the house. And I do this at my rental properties to just to save me, like literally over a thousand dollars a year when we're talking about all the houses together, and a quarterly spray really doesn't take much time out of my day. Just swung by my way after work to do a rental property the other day too. So yeah, it's pretty simple. You mentioning that just rubbed in my face because I haven't yet. Gotta get with it, man, it's really not

that hard. Yeah, what's this warming up here in the south? Termites is something you have to keep an eye out for as well, And so that's how star pro. Is that what you used? Yeah, yeah, that's that's that's what I have as well. But that's really great for keeping termites down as well. Yeah, and for anyone who is interested in potentially saving a few hundred dollars a year and doing their own pest control. Just a quick word of the wise. You don't want to go to home

depot or lows and pick up the stuff there. There are websites that sell the stuff that the pros use, and Amazon even sells some of the stuff that the pros used too. We linked to that stuff in the article we wrote on how to money dot com, so you can totally check it out. It's just one of my favorite money saving tips, especially this time of year when the bugs are out full force. Yeah, one of

those Joel originals. All right, Joel, let's introduce our beer for this episode, and to remind our listeners why you and I have a craft beer on the show every single week, And it's because we like beer. We love craft beer, and it's an example of a way that we are balancing our lives by living a little bit of life now while at the same time saving for our futures and being smart with our money. It's it's not all about depriving the here and now for some

lofty goal of being financially independent at some point. We also like to take some small little winds and pleasures right now, and one of those for you and me is delicious craft beer. And I feel like we literally just kind of outlined a way in which we save money in one possibly for some considered to be an extreme way by doing your own pest control. And yet we will spend money on fairly expensive craft beer from time to time, but this one, unfortunately, Matt, we didn't

have to spend any money on. And why is that? That's right? Man? This beer was sent in from a listener, Naomi, and she mentioned that her and her husband they kind of went off for the weekend, I think, to Wilmington, North Carolina. There's an awesome beach there. Have you ever been up there? I haven't. No, I've been there once.

It's actually really nice. But her and her husband they discussed their values and how they relate to financial goals per one of our earlier episodes, and she said that the conversation and the beer was amazing and she wanted to thank us, and she picked us up one of these beers from Wilmington's brewing company, which is called Secret Lovers the sequel, which is pretty awesome. And this is a collaboration beer with New Anthem Brewing, which is also

right there in Wilmington as well. Yeah, and this one's right up our alley. It's in New England style double I p A. We'll let you know what we think of this beer. At the end of the show, big thanks to Naomi for sending this out. It's inspiring to to hear kind of the story behind why she's in

this beer. That's just that's kind of fun. Yeah, we don't talk about that often, but that's a huge rewarding aspect of of what we do, being able to talk on the silly podcast and talking about money but actually having an impact on individuals lives, helping relationships. I would have never thought that, in some sort of weird way, that were these financial counselors and helping couples talk through their money. But in a way I feel like that

you and I are kind of doing that. Yeah, it's weird to think about, right, because we started this podcast just two buddies drinking beers talking about money. Um, and you have the response. Our listeners are the best. All right, Matt, Let's get onto the topic at hand, the truth about debt consolidation. So let's quickly touch on the problems involved with debt consolidation. People fall prey to the lofty promises

Matt of debt consolidation companies. A quick fix always sounds so nice, But just like unloading your timeshare with an upfront fee is going to leave you with thousands less than the bank account and still with a timeshare on your hands. Signing up with a debt consolidation or debt settlement company could cost you money points on your credit score, and in the end could potentially not move the needle at all. There are ways where you can consolidate your

debt and it's actually gonna be helpful to you. Will kind of go over some of those ways, but there are a lot of potential pitfalls, and we have to talk about those. For people that do have debt and want to figure out a way to kind of lower their payments and lower their interest rate. First, let's go ahead and to find debt consolidation, and that is combining lots of individual unsecured debts that you have into a

single monthly bill, right into a single monthly payment. What's really important to keep in mind is that this doesn't actually get rid of any debt. It just restructures that you're just changing the shape of it. Essentially, if you're going through a company, what you're doing is you're paying for the convenience and that focus, and you know that actually might be a good thing. If you have lots of high interest debts, in particularly if you have lots

of credit card debts. If you're looking at over like six is the average credit card interest rate that folks are carrying these days. So if you know you've got sixteen percent or higher, it might be worth it to consolidate. However, you still need to be careful. There's a lot of considerations and I'm excited to talk about this today and debt consolidation, Matt is not to be confused with debt settlement,

which is is much much worse for people. We do have to mention that before we kind of move on and talk about the particulars of debt consolidation and whether it works for your situation. In the case of debt settlement companies, well you'll hear them often advertising on TV and radio that that's like a popular place for for them to hang out. Probably a lot of daytime television shows too often, sometimes the worst advertisers that prey on

people advertises during those times of the day. And debt settlement companies in particular tell customers not to pay their debts anymore, that they don't have to pay their credit card company, they don't have to pay that personal loan back and that this debt settlement company is going to essentially handle everything for you and you're gonna be fine. And you know what else they tell you On top of that, They say you need to pay an upfront fee,

sometimes thousands of dollars. And while you're paying them, oftentimes the only money that's left in your bank account as they tell you they're negotiating your debts down, you're also not paying the companies that have lent you money, which is leading to a ruin of your credit score. And then, on top of that, the debt settlement companies almost never make good on their promise to actually negotiate your debts with your lenders, and so your credit score gets ruined.

In most cases, it drops by a hundred and forty two a hundred and sixty points. And at the end of that terrible saga, you're out thousands of dollars and you're in arrears with your debtors. So be very very careful before you jump in bed with a debt settlement company, because often they're gonna leave you in a much much worse financial and credit situation than you were in to start with. And John, you mentioned fees up front. That's a huge red flag of a company that isn't direct

violation of the FTC. So if they take any fees, any money before they actually settle or they get your payments lowered, they're breaking the law. Like that's completely illegal. Again, that should be a huge red flag. You also mentioned them actually not negotiating on on on your behalf. Well, I don't want to defend debt settlement companies, but the

fact is they actually might be trying to. But the creditors, whoever you have debts with, they just don't have any obligation to actually say yes and work with the settlement companies. They may have very well made that phone call and are talking to them, but whoever you actually debts do, they're just not willing to work with that specific settlement company.

And so that's something to keep in mind. Even though that a settlement company might say, oh, yes, we can do this or we will do this, your creditor has

zero obligation to work with that company. Yeah, and those potentially thousands of dollars that you spent upfront to hire this debt settlement company to do the dirty work for you, well, oftentimes that would be better off sitting in your savings account as an emergency fund or paid in lump sum towards your highest interest rate debt to kind of get you started working on that road towards paying down your debts.

That's right, Okay, So think about this. If your debt isn't more than half of your income right now, and you've got a pretty good credit score, and this is almost the most important thing I think, Joel, if you have a plan to not take on any more consumer debt, well, you know, debt consolidation might actually be a good option for you. And so after the break, we're gonna talk about ways and not just through a consolidation company, but just different methods that you can consolidate your debt and

also some other pitfalls to keep an eye off for. Alright, man, we're back, and before we get into the specifics of debt insolidation, let's talk about the specifics of who is going to be a good candidate to consider deconsolidation. And like you mentioned going into the break, if your debt is less than half of your income, that's gonna be one big reason that you should consider deconsolidation as an option. And also you're gonna need a pretty good credit score.

You're also gonna need to be committed to not taking out any more debt, and in particular, that credit score is going to be key, because deconsolidation isn't gonna be helpful for you if you have a really low credit score, because that is going to prevent you from getting the lowest advertised rates. If you have a great credit score and a lot of debt, there's a good chance that you could qualify for a much lower rate than what

you're paying on, let's say, your credit cards. But if you have a really low credit score, there's just not much of a chance that you're gonna be able to lower your rate by any meaningful amounts, and lenders might not be willing to work with you at all. Yeah, Basically, if you have a crappy credit score, like those rates that you see advertise, they're going to be too good

to be true. And there's something else to consider if you're looking at debt consolidation companies is that extending your payment terms might mean some more financial breathing room, but it can also mean higher rates and obviously longer time in actual debt. And even if you get a lower rate, it can mean paying more in interest overall because you've

extended how long you're paying towards that loan. Yeah, it's like if you have a thirty year mortgage matt at four and a half percent, and you're ten years into that mortgage. But if there's a screaming deal for a mortgage rate at four point to five, well, if you refinance into that, guess what you're back paying for ten years longer, and overall you're gonna pay a heck of a lot more in interest because of that refinance than

you would have otherwise. That lower rate seems like a good idea, but it's not because of all the fees and extra interest you're gonna pay because of the extended load terms. Ye basically you're hitting that reset button and you're starting all over. And the typical debt consolidation loan

is about five years. And honestly, if you think you could pay down some credit card debt maybe in like eighteen months, eighteen months of hard work where you're buckling down and really getting after it, just think about how much longer paying another three and a half years on top of that is. And this is typically for consumer debt. These are purchases that that you made of stuff that you may not even have anymore. Like it's it's something that you may have thrown away and you're still paying

on it five years later. Yeah, that's just terrible. So let's talk about credit cards in particular. If you have less money to get solidate less outstanding debt in a decent credit scored at the same time, it might be best to shop around for better credit card offers. If you're looking at paying off let's say that last three thousand dollars in credit card debt, Well, bouncing to a zero percent interest rate intro offer isn't a bad idea.

You'll want to know the promo period, like how long that zero percent interest rate lasts, and if there are any transfer fees associated. Oftentimes there's a three percent fee. Sometimes there's as much as a five percent fee if you transfer a balance over to a zero percent card, So know that ahead of time. Also know that it's

going to take discipline. After you've gone through the effort to transfer to a zero percent interest rate card, you're gonna want to make sure you have the discipline to tackle that debt within the time A lotted before that promo rate runs out edel and not just rolling over

credit card debt to other credit card debt. But if you have a plan and you you just mentioned discipline, If you have a plan and you know that you can pay down within eighteen months or whatever that introductory period is where you have zero percent, you can roll over other debts into a single credit card. Again, if you have a plan, if you know that, you're just buying yourself some time, and eventually this is gonna reset

and it's gonna blow up in your face. Yeah, and that rate's gonna jack back up to well, honestly, there's just not much point in doing that. You're just basically shuffling your debt around and it's with these guys for a little bit and then it's over here, and sure you might save a buck here and there, but your

credit is gonna suffer. And honestly, when you're kind of playing that shuffle game and you're moving your money around, it's hard to keep track of what is with who, and what fees have been paid and what annual fee is about to hit. You're complicating your life. I'm getting stressed even thinking about it. And that without a plan,

you're not gonna get very far with this approach at all. Yeah, we're talking about discipline, you don't that makes me think of makes me think of a fellow podcaster, Jacko that podcast here listening one. What's his last name, Jocko Willink. Yeah, So that guy man, he's a he's a baller. And if you need any motivation to get disciplined, check out Jackos podcast or Yeah. I just know that he was in armed forces and he's jacked. And I made a joke one time about bidding him in arm wrestling, So

I think his arms are bigger than our bodies. That guy's massive. But another important point Matt on that subject is that if you do consolidate your credit card debt into a lower monthly payment like a zero percent interest transfer card, you need to cut up those old cards. The biggest downfall, the biggest pitfall when you're transferring your debt from one credit card to another, is that you go back to that old credit card and you end up running up more debt. And a zero percent interest

rate helps you not at all. If if you have no discipline and you're running up the other credit card at the same time, you're just compounding the amount of debt you have, and eventually that zero percent is gonna wear off, and you've got two credit cards and at that point your struggles are multiplying. Yeah, and going back to the whole credit score thing. If you're taking additional debt and rolling it onto a credit card, well that can work out, like we said, if you actually have

the plan to pay that off within that period. But you need to keep an eye on your utilization rate because when you've got a single card loaded up like that, that takes that rate through the roof, not through the roof, I guess, but almost to the ceiling. And again that's that's a terrible thing for your credit score. And if you had a good credit score when you made the transfer, well you might not pretty quick, depending on what that

credit limit is and what your balance is. All right, Joe, So so far we've talked about a debt consolidation company, and that's sort of like an all in one. You know, you talked at the beginning about hitting an easy button. It's an easy solution, and then we talked about credit cards. What we started talking about there was more of a manual way to consolidate your debt, and I say manually, because you're doing the work yourself. You're the one that's

kind of doing the legwork. You're figuring out where the best rates are, you're making the decisions to pay off old debt, high interest rate debt, and you're taking advantage of new low offers while at the same time having a plan. Right, And another way that you could potentially manually consolidate your debt on your own is to roll some of that unsecured debt into a secure debt. That is an option. However, you have to be very very careful.

You're gonna considering you that, all right, dumb it down for people Matt who don't know the difference between an unsecured and of secured debt and why is that important. Age also unsecured debt that is a debt obligation that you have that is not tied to an asset or collateral. So, for instance, if you have a car loan, or if you have a mortgage that is secured debt, credit card debt or consumer debt or personal loan, those are unsecured forms of debt. They're not coming for those fifty pairs.

As any optical glasses that you bought right, I love Mazennis. However, with a secure debt that is again tied to collateral, and so that might sound like a terrible thing because you think, oh, man, if I don't pay my mortgage, they can come after my house. That is very true. However, at the same time, because you have collateral involved, you can get a much lower rate, which is why secured debt will look a lot more attractive when you're looking

at the interest rate only. However, that is not the only thing you want to take into account if you're considering a secure debt for some debt consolidation. I know probably a lot of people at this point in the episode of thought, well, why wouldn't I just take out a home equity line of credit or even refinance my mortgage if you're a homeowner in order to get a lower interest rate overall in your debt four or five.

That's way better than exactly It makes a whole lot of sense, right, But the whole point behind unsecured versus secured debt is one that you need to consider carefully because with a refinance, not only are you paying a lot of fees in order to make that happen, but at the same time, you're taking a debt that doesn't have any collateral behind it and rolling that debt into an asset that you have, and if you defaulted on

that loan, that's going to cost you your house. That's the reason why an interest rate on a car loan or a home loan is so much less because those companies know they have less at risk because there is an actual tangible asset involved. At the end of the day, Yeah, they know we can come get your stuff exactly, which we're joking about. But that's the terrible thing, exactly. It

happens all the time. And there are a lot of people who think, I'm just gonna roll this credit card debt into my home loan or a helock or home ECHI line of credit score that lower interest rate, but then they have trouble paying that as well, and it leads to even bigger issues with the potential foreclosure. And so you need to be really careful before rolling in on secured debt and to a secured asset like your house that could cause bigger problems than you're in right now. Miguel.

And another option that sometimes folks consider when it comes to consolidating debt is tapping into the retirement accounts to pay off debt. And you know what we think about that. Yeah, this is almost always a terrible idea because you're stealing from your future self. These are your retirement accounts. This is money that you've set aside for you when you're older, when you're kicking back and you don't wanta have to work anymore. You're stealing literally from your future self to

fund lifestyle and consumption right now while you're younger. It's just a terrible idea. And not only that, but there's also tax implications and penalties as well that will eat you alive if you're withdrawing those funds from a retirement account like a four O one K or an IRA. So, Matt, let's say you've got a traditional IRA with like forts in it, and you've got twenty dollars worth of credit card debt. Let's just say it's at an interest rate

of well, you might think it's pretty high. It's pretty high. It makes a heck of a lot of sense for me to take out twenty dollars from that I R A in order to pay it on that debt. Well, what you don't realize is that you're going to pay a lot in taxes and penalties just for taking that money out. So when you're filing your taxes at the beginning of next year, you're in for a rude awakening. Often the taxes and penalties can be close to of

what you took out. So you took out twenty dollars to pay that debt off, but depending on what tax procket you're in, that combined with the penalty that you'll pay, could be a major chunk of that, putting you in another bind come tax time when you don't have that cash on hand. So that is why taking money out of your retirement accounts, not only is it a major hit to your future retirement plans, it also hurts you

in the near term at the same time. So Matt, let's get into some alternatives for debt consolidation and also kind of what people with an overwhelming amount of debt should consider right after the break. All right, Joe, So we've talked through a few methods, right, like some manual methods where you can consolidate your own debt. At the beginning we talked about consolidation companies. It made me think of maybe an analogy a little metaphor and see if

it works out for you. Imagine if you're sitting on the couch, you've got a bunch of trash. Let's pretend you're a slob. What okay, pretend you're in college. You've painted a robust picture. You're in college, and your trash. Instead of taking it to the trash can like a normal human being, you're taking it and you're throwing it behind the couch. And after a while that gets disgusting and you get overwhelmed and you're like, oh, there's trash everywhere.

You know. What I need is a special couch trash can right next to the couch so I can put all this trash straight into it and not have to walk to the actual trash can. In my house, it's like organizing your stuff but shoving it all in the closet and then when you open the door, it just all comes crashing exactly. Well, the fact is that extra special trash can that you just bought to put next to your couch it costs you money, and on top

of that, it doesn't actually eliminate the trash. It's still there, like you still have to go through the work of getting up and at some point you have to empty that trash can, put your pants on, and walk it out to the You still have to own it. And that's sort of the way I viewed debt consolidation a little bit. All it does is it takes it, It reshapes it, it restructures it. But it doesn't actually eliminate it. It It doesn't really get rid of that debt. It

just makes it so that you don't see it. It's behind the closet door, it's in the trash can. All that trash isn't overwhelming you. It's not spread all around the living room anymore. But you still eventually have to pick that trash up and put it in the trash can and take it out the door and deconsoalivation is taking you into that nice, neater, tidy or lower monthly payment potentially, but it's also costing you more money in the long run because you're paying for a lot more

years usually. Exactly, yeah, exactly. So did you like that? I like that? I love it. It's beautiful, man. That that's a paints a vivid picture I think for everyone. Yeah, the whole college scene with you throwing kind of trash pizza boxes, maybe of your of your shoulder while watching TV. Probably more pizza boxes than a day appeals much to my shame. All Right, so let's get into the kind of what you should do if you find yourself in

a situation where you're looking to consolidate your debts. And one thing that I think is really important to mention for many folks, it could be smart to at least reach out to to your lenders. It's in their best interest to work with you. They don't want you to default on the dead a credit card company or your credit union, let's say you have a car loan with them, they might consider spreading out your payments over a longer period of time, or lowering your fees without you having

to pay additional money in order to do so. There is a chance that your credit score will go down if you reach out to your lender to work out an alternative payoff plan, but it might still be the best option for you, Eduel. Something else to consider when you're reaching out to those lenders is a few weeks ago, we released an episode on getting great customer service. When

you're talking to your lenders. It's a lot like that you're gonna use these same interpersonal tips, except keep in mind that you've got a lot more on the line. There's a lot more money on the line, So you want to make sure that you're being incredibly polite and kind a customer service representative or in this case, a lender, they're not gonna want to help you. They're not going to want to cut an alternate payment plan or method

with you. If you sound entitled or if you're a jerk, be nice, but also make sure that you're keeping detailed No chances are you gonna be talking to all different sorts of folks, and some folks might be willing to help you, or you might end up making a call the next day and you might get pushed through to a different call center where there happens to be somebody there that's just really nice, or maybe they have the

authority to make a call like that. You just want to make sure that you're making it as easy as possible for that lender to work with you. Yeah, you could also instead of reaching out to your lender for a debt restructuring, which is going to be better for you in the long run, there's gonna be less of an effect on your credit score. Your lender has more

of an interest in working with you. If you're asking for debt settlement with a particular lender, that means paying a lump sum and paying less than the full amount that you owe, and lenders are just typically not inclined to do that unless unless they just see that as their only option in getting some of their money back. And if you do opt to try to settle your debt with a lender, there are other issues involved too.

There's gonna be a massive hit to your credit score in all likelihood, and at the same time, you are going to get a ten form from the I r S that forgiven debt is going to look like income and you're gonna have to pay tax on that the following year. So there are issues when you're talking about

asking for a debt settlement with your lender. So those are the issues that you need to be aware of when you're thinking about asking for a debt settlement versus a restructuring of that debt, and also with a settlement to make sure that whatever it is that they've agreed to, that you get that in writing an email that's totally fine, snat chat not so good that John's gonna disappear after.

But then also even if they send it via snail mail, like, it doesn't have to be sent in the actual paper mail. Just know that an email is just fine as well. By the way, we probably just got that thing wrong about Snapchat shows you how much we know about new media these days, right. I like Instagram stories, man, that's what we do. Yeah, we have fun on there all right, Joe. So that was reaching out two lenders yourself directly, and

that takes some mental strength, That takes some energy. You might be in a position where you don't have that hope, where you may not have that light at the end of the tunnel. In those cases, what we would recommend is to check out some debt counseling. That can be a great option for you. For a lot of folks, you feel like that they're just completely underwater. It feels

like they're drowning in their debt. And the n f c C they're a nonprofit that will work with you and they can help you to create a debt management plan or a d MP. Yes, so, the National Foundation for Credit Counseling, also known as the NFCC is the best possible option for you to get real debt counseling We mentioned early on in the show debt settlement companies who oftentimes ask for big upfront fees and offer to negotiate with your lenders for you, and how usually that

doesn't pan out well for you. Well, with the NFCC, they actually do have some leeway to negotiate with specific lenders on your behalf and lower interest rates and get better terms for you. And at the same time, the NFCC is so great because these counseling programs are almost always free. So if you want more information, you want to find an NFCC member agency near you, go to NFCC dot org. There's even a phone number for you to call it to speak to a budget counselor you know,

right now. So that's just the one place I would turn if I had overwhelming debt. That is literally the place I would run to as quick possible. They're kind of like a shining beacon of hope in the in the dark world of overwhelming debt. But Joel, you know what, if you have just a significant amount of debt, You've gone to the NFCC, They've worked with you, you've talked with them. They might even advise that you know now is the time for you to go ahead and file

for bankruptcy. That might be your only option at this point. There's obviously a lot of negative sort of social stigma around bankruptcy, but financially speaking, that might really be the best option for you. And if you've identified that, you know what this is what needs to happen, this is what is next. Know that that is a legitimate option, like that might be what is necessary for you to move forward in your life while learning from the mistakes

that you've made in the past. Keep in mind, though, that if you don't pass the means test, that bankruptcy is not an option, and that's basically some number crunching that they do to compare the debt that you owe versus your income, and I think they take some assets into account as well. You had one thing to note on bankruptcy. If student loans are one of the major problems, the major debts hanging over your head, it's very very

difficult for student loans to be discharged in bankruptcy. So if that's a big factor in your overall debt burden, one of the things that's weighing you down, just know that that is not one of the things that will be forgiven when it comes to bankruptcy in all likelihood. Yeah, that's a huge bomber man. And also know that you are required to get credit counseling at least six months

prior to filing for bankruptcy. And there's a link of government approved counseling agencies and will link to that in our show notes. Most of these are going to be nonprofits. But also keep in mind that just because it's a nonprofit doesn't mean that they won't charge or that it may not be affordable for you. They're just not out for profit, say like a debt consolidation company might be. Yeah. Man, that's a real serious undertaking that a lot of people

have had two at different times in their lives. Consider I know it affects families in a major way, and and just real quickly, to be honest, I've known that because it affected me as a kid. It affected our family, and so yeah, I just wanted to mention that that it's not something we take lightly and I know it's a hard thing, and so yeah, I just wanted to say that real quick, let's not the labored the point

on that. Just know that it is an option if that's in a worst case scenario, right, But let's get back to this beer, Matt. We did drink a beer called Secret Lovers the sequel. It's a New England style double I p A by It's a collaboration and man, this was sent to us by listener Naomi. It was a delightful beer. Do do you think we will ever get tired of drinking New England Style? I p A. It's like, right now, we love that style, but do you think it's just a fad two or three, four

years from now? Do you think we're gonna look back and say, man, we were so dumb for how much of those beers that we drink? I don't think so. I really feel like this is the style that I could drink three or four nights a week and not get tired of. But you know what, like you said, maybe in four years, I'll be like, what a n idiot, I'm so tired of those beers. I just love drinking this And honestly, this was a quintessential reflection of that style.

It had that amazing hop nose which just a little bit of sweetness. It made it one of those that you felt like you could kind of sip in rapid fashion. Yeah. Well, at the same time, it just had a ton of juiciness going on, which is part of why I definitely rapidly drank mine. Amusto. Really a thirsty this, buddy, I need to have a water glass over here. I do think that that plays into how much I enjoy a beer, because if I'm particularly thirsty, I find that I really

like a beer. But if I'm not that thirsty, you think I could do without. I personally enjoy a beer like this over an extent of period of time, any sort of good beer, which is what we're drinking, you know, pretty much all the time. It's only really good beers. I love drinking it slowly over the whole night. Drinking like eight ounces of beer over a whole evening is

totally fine with me. I'm not. It's more about the quality for me, Like the quantity Righteah, me too, But I just wish I had more quantity of this because it's delicious it is, and I'm really thirsty. So well, I agree. So we'll have to try more from from these breweries in North Carolina for sure at some point. Yeah, this is my first ever Wilmington's brewing beer, and I hope it's not my last. I completely agree with you, my friend. All right, let's get to our final thoughts

on the subject that we tackled today, Matt. The truth about debt consolidation. The best consolidation options out there are once that simplify your life and lower your costs, and that can be hard to chief. The key is to avoid taking on new debt or massively prolonging your payback period. Also, be very wary of debt settlement companies and anyone that tells you to stop paying your debts and to pay

them an upfront fee. That's a recipe for disaster. And also make sure that part of your plan, a huge part of your plan, is to address the core issues, the root issues of why you have debt in the first place, and that you're not just treating the symptoms of the payments that you can't afford. Right now, we talked about opening a new card and taking advantage of a zero present interest rate and just kind of shuffling your moving your debt around, and that's literally what you're doing.

It's it's like rearranging the chairs on the deck of the Titanic. But hopefully you're done edited in the same direction exactly. But if you because if you don't have a plan, like you're sinking. You can make it as pretty as you want, and on the surface it might look better for a second, but you've got to get to the deeper core issues of spending and how you viewed debt in the first place. Yeah, you gotta get some of that Jocko discipline right at the same time.

And also, don't forget the NFCC is the best and only place that we could tell people to go uh a nonp off it that will work with you if you're in over your head when it comes to your debt. So we'll put a link to the nfcc's website in our show notes as well, and you can find those show notes for this episode on our website how to money dot com. And Joel and I we would love to find a five star review from you on Apple Podcasts,

but only if you really enjoy this episode. You see, like Uncle Sam right now, we need you, We need you to do this, but for real though, we've had a lot of reviews recently and we are incredibly thankful for all of our listeners out there. We read those and we treat that as feedback, while at the same time it's incredibly helpful for getting the word out for those who haven't found the show yet, for those who don't have their personal finances in order, those reviews help

us to reach them. And if you do feel like that we have some room for improvement, we would also love to hear from you. Hit us up on our website at how to money dot com slash do Better. But that's gonna be it for this episode, Joel, that's fry buddy. Until next time, Best Friends Out, Friends Out, m m m