Stop Money Arguments In Their Tracks #440

like a bunch of them, like after the other one. Uh. And that's how they stopped this train literally with ropes, with ropes well, and and like the tracks were greased, you know, like you only have one engine like at the beginning, and so as long as you know, if it's lost traction, that train ain't going anywhere. I think that's how they got the money. Does this ring a bell to you? Know? You never saw it. I have

no idea this movie. If you know what the movie is, though, maybe email in and uh let us know that I have this vivid picture of this heist. But enough about bank robbery. Let's we're gonna talk about I wouldn't know the first thing about Robin trains, but people don't do that anymore, right, That's that's true. It's a relative of bygone era, that's true. Uh yeah, So this episode, we're

gonna talk all about relationships. We're gonna talk about how it is uh maybe stopping arguments in their tracks, but specifically, we're gonna talk about how to power through, how to work through these different arguments and disagreements that we might have with a significant other. And I'm actually really looking forward to this episode. Man, I think this is gonna be a good one. Yes, it's not something we talked about a whole lot of money in relationships are are crucial.

They form an important part of how we relate to the people that are closest to us, and money issues can cause a lot of problems, so it's important to figure out how we work do those things. Well, that's what we're gonna talk about today. Before we get that, put our couple's counseling hats on for just us. One episode. I was gonna say, we're not licensed therapists, so, um, don't expect that from us. My wife is in school to be come a license therapist. Maybe it's rubbing off

on me a little bit. We'll see. But before we get to that, I wanted to mention that we just got a new vacuum in our house, Matt, and it's impressive. So is this your wise Yeah, okay, yeah, So we've talked about the cameras, both the cameras which are awesome, which are like thirty bucks, very affordable, very affordable. D you slot in the little SD card and then you don't have to pay for a monthly recurring bill for

video monitoring, if that's what you're looking forth. Exactly. Back in time, we used our wives as a as a baby monitor, and I was I just liked how the company was making really good stuff for just incredibly low prices. And they recently released one of those like cordless stick vacuums, kind of like the disons. I think Dison really pioneered those. But those are five bucks. Those are really expensive, really expensive.

I thought maybe you got that. They sold a robot vacuum like a little They do also some of those, although we did not buy that one. But yeah, so I was like, all right, they're releasing this one. There was a special pre order price. I think it was a hundred dollars. I want to say four, and I was like, well, this, this is, this is It's worth giving this a shot, because you know, I've been impressed with their stuff before. That's really cheap for a stick vacuum.

And and the other thing is apparently what goes wrong with those vacuums most of the time is a dead battery. Like the battery just goes to crap, and then you have to replace the entire vacuum. Well not with the wise because the battery is detachable, so you can order a new battery. Like as the battery life deteriorates on that vacuum, you can order a new battery. That's all right, that's right. All there's new batteries a hundred dollars. I think they're half the price, which is about the same

with like an electric bicycle. The batteries about half the cost of the battery. Technology ain't cheap. But but so I just want to say, we've been thoroughly impressed with this vacuum. I don't think of myself as a vacuum connoisseur necessarily, but which I do. I'm really into vacuum. All right, Well you have to come over, and you said, let me know your thoughts give it a whir else see what kind of section this thing's gotta going on.

I mean, I don't think that they're not quite as powerful as just like a leafblower that you plug into a wall outlet. It's going to be more powerful than the battery power, right, And it's the same thing with the vacuum. Quarter vacuum is probably gonna have a bit more suction going on, exactly. I mean, it's hard to beat the brush roll too of a plugged in vacuumcause those things like will beat the crap out of a carpet. Yes, that's how it knocks up on the dirt exactly us.

So I will say this, it doesn't quite have that going for it. And the battery life isn't super long on any of these vacuums, including the Wise vacuum. So if that's not your jam, if you're like I like the vacuum for hours on end, this was probably not

gonna do it for you. And so I mean you're mostly probably using this one just for like spot cleaning, right where it's like, oh, there's a big mess, kids spilled some sparkles or something like that, sprinkles, I don't know, and cleaning cleaning the car too, which I will say the portability for car cleaning is really nice. Well, thank you for sharing that, and you'll have to report back as to how well it holds up, because if you have to buy that fifty dollar battery in like five months,

maybe Wise has got a racket. But they've proven themselves to be a good new company for selling these gadgets basically that other companies are selling for a lot more money. That's right, Yeah, So I just want to make people aware of that. I'll link to the one that we bought, you know, in the show notes if you want to check it out. But for us, at least so far, it's it's been great and saved us a lot of money over the much more expensive versions. Good move, dude.

All right, let's mention the beer that we're gonna have on this episode. This first of all, was sent to us by Jason. He's up there in New York near the Rochester location of the Other Half Brewing, which we've are a huge fan of their beers. And so the name of this beer dual you said was dank. It actually is so above it says can and dank. So he said it's a play on words of a lake

up there. It's like canea or something like that. I don't know even know how you say, but it's a pun uh, And that's what this beer is named after. So well, the other half makes fantastic beers. And I'm looking forward to trying this I p a with you on the show today, Matt. We'll talk about it at the end of the episode. Absolutely, all right, let's let's

move on. Let's get to the topic at hand. Let's talk about money arguments, how to not necessarily stop them in their tracks, but how to maybe make them more productive and have them less frequently. And it turns out that the highest predictor for marriage failure is money. It

fights about money. How often we fight about money? And that might surprise you, it might not, but stats show that the couples that communicate the most poorly about money, that fight the most frequently, end up divorcing more frequently. And so Matt and I we think that this means that whether you're married, whether you're not married, we've got to communicate. We've got to work to communicate better about

money as couples. And so yeah, we'll mostly be talking about long term partner dynamics in this episode, we just often fight more with the person that we're closest to and that that we do with anyone else on earth. And I think that's that's mostly because we spend more time with them than anyone else, right, but it's also

because the stakes are the highest in that relationship. And yeah, since money is the number one issue that married folks fight about, and since a third of Americans report having major conflicts around the areas of money in their relationship, it's worth discussing um and good chunk of the other two thirds are probably experiencing at least some money issues as well. So yeah, I think it's important for us to cover mat because this is one of those things

that really affects all of us. Even the folks that feel like they're handling money decently, well, that's right, they're just faking it. We know that they're dealing with these issues as well. Yeah, so we're talking about stopping these arguments of their tracks. We even thought about naming this episode avoiding these money arguments. But the fact is we're we're not saying that you should strive towards never having a disagreement with your partner. We think that different opinions

are really important when it comes to decisions with your money. Like, it probably means that, like that you're gonna lead a more adventurous and fulfilling life if you are both able to approach a situation with different perspectives in mind. Um, you know, life might be a little boring if you were both exactly the same. But when you do have these disagreements, it's important that you approach those situations with

a a foundation of trust and of respect. That's going to be essential to fostering healthy conflict, right, Like, that's the difference between unhealthy conflict and healthy conflict is how you approach these disagreements. And we want to engage well in this healthy conflict so that we avoid these destructive patterns within our relationships as well as with our money. And so we want to work towards not only growing

our wealth, but growing and strengthening our relationships too. And it's difficult for any real growth to occur when there aren't actually some growing pains. Yeah, man, it makes me think about like when my kids have a hard time sleeping night, when they constantly complain about aches and their legs or their arms, And I'm like, you're growing right now, like you're going through a growth spurt. And I think arguments and disagreements are two different things, right, Like we

want to prevent the non knockdown, drag out fights. We we don't want our listeners engaged in unhealthy ways of communicating about money on the rig. But friction is necessary, right in order to make progress. Like you said, it's we want to grow as a couple, uh, towards each other in an area that has a lot of potential for conflict. But it doesn't mean I think you're right, like avoidance altogether is just as unhealthy as constant conflict. We want to be able to make sure that we're

having those conversations in a healthy way. Yeah, it's it's so it makes me think of exercise, right, because if you have somebody who's thinking, Okay, I don't want exercise because I don't want to be sore, and so they're just avoiding it all together. They're sitting on the couch. Well, turns out eventually at some point they're gonna be hurting, whether it's because their heart is in bad shape or their body is aching because they're not staying physically active.

We all know that exercise is going to lead to better outcomes when it comes to our physical health, and so in the same way, like we want to engage in a healthy way when it comes to these disagreements with our money. And honestly, on the flip side, I think the same thing is true as well if you have somebody who is maybe too engaged with their body when it comes to working out, Like we know people who have injured themselves because they're just maybe overtaxing their bodies.

I get accused of being too ripped all the time. You are not the accused here, but there are some I mean, and also too if you're doing it in ely right, Like if your technique is wrong, you could really jack your body in a bad way. And the same thing can be true with not only your money,

but your relationships as well. If you are approaching a conversation about money and you're just being too abrasive, you're being too over the top, that could be a situation where you're not able to recover, and that could permanently harm that relationship. It's uh, like you know, when you work out, there are these small micro tears that happened to your muscles, right, and like those small but measured tears are what allow your muscles to grow and for

you to get stronger. That's what we want to do when it comes to these different conflicts in our lives. We want to lean into them. We we want to do them. H We don't want to avoid them, but we also don't want to go to the other extreme as well. Yeah, that's how you grow and have a meaning for relationship when you can tackle hard things together in a positive way, when you can lean into that discomfort and disagreement and not let it get the best

of you. And I think, Matt, one of the reasons that people so often run towards avoidance of money conflict is because we're not taught about money growing up, whether it's in school or from our parents. Most of us are figuring out on our own through trial and error, and we're making we're making screw ups a lot of the time. We're we're not handling money well, and so

we're embarrassed. We feel ashamed, and that lack of knowledge, along with that unhealthy dose of shame, uh, really impacts our relationships when it comes to how we talk about money. I think it leads to this unhealthy cycle of making a mistake and then trying to maybe cover it up or just not talk about it or get defensive when it gets brought up with our significant other. And I

think that's one important point to to mention. It's an important thing to recognize in yourself and realize that shame might be impacting some of the ways in which you're talking about money with the person that you love. Yeah, it's important to be vulnerable and not feel like that you have to have all of your stuff figured out

before you start having these conversations. And I think a lot of times we can feel the need to make sure everything's in shape, especially like if it's a couple who maybe is dating before they are in a committed, a long term relationship, before they've gotten financially naked, there might be a desire to get all that stuff figured

out before they start having those conversations. But we feel that it's important to start having these conversations and to start opening those lines of communication to start working for positive changes in our lives. And you know, as we kind of launch into some of these different arguments, we wanted to mention too that not all of these disagreements, and not all of these arguments are actually about money. Fights we we have. They might seem like that they're

about money, and honestly, in truth, sometimes they are. But while money is the topic that is generating the heated discussion in the moment, there are a lot of other factors at play. It's so it's important to recognize that so that we don't think that just simply more money is going to magically fix our problems. More money is not a cure all uh, And so just keep in mind that there's more at play here than just a

busted budget. We want you to as you're thinking through some of these different disagreements, to truly like figure out what is at the core of the disagreement, because in these instances, if you're only focusing on the money, you're focusing on the symptom of the problem here, you're focusing at what is truly at the core. And just a standard regular counselor who specializes in couples therapy, that is the direction that we think could be more productive than

just focusing on the money. Yeah, yeah, I agree, Matt. Not it might seem like these these issues, these arguments continue to bubble up around the topic of money, but there are likely other things at play underneath there. It might be consistently coming home at a different time then you say you're gonna come home like that. There could be There could be all of these other things that are fostering mistrust or or even producing resentment in a

relationship that need to be tackled. And the argument might seem on it surface like it's about money, but there could be other stuff bubbling underneath. But at the same time, some of those arguments actually are about money. And you know, as we all know, money stress can negatively impact your health, and those frequent arguments often lead to worse outcomes in your relationship and when it comes to your financial trajectory. So there might also be real issues that your family

faces when it comes to your finances. You might not have enough margin right, You might not have enough money on hand, which leads to a lot of frustration and stress. You might be in debt up to your eyeballs, which of course is going to cause actual arguments about money. You know that leads to more fights, and so doing the hard work of fixing your finances is going to go a long way towards making your relationship more peaceful. You know, like Matt said, UH, solving the money angle

doesn't fix all of your fights instantaneously. But there are certain fights that are specifically UH come stem from money problems that will pop up, and we need to figure out how to address those two. That's right, and so let's get to uh the number one root cause of so many money arguments, and that is when you're not on the same page with what you're striving after. And so if you and your partner, if you want different things, if you want your money to end up into different places,

that is bound to cause some friction. And again, we think that differences of opinion, you know, differences in the things that interests us uh and subsequently where we decide to end our money, those should be differences that we celebrate. After all, I'm guessing that at least some of those differences are what attracted you to your partner, right, But we do need to make sure that our differences aren't bigger and more divisive than the values that we share.

And so that's why it's incredibly important for us to get on the same page when it comes to our money and our partner yea. So one suggestion we'd have when it comes to getting on the same page, since that is such a big problem and it will help curb some of these fights, is to separately write down each of your own top money goals. This is a

great thing you can actually come back together. But we've actually got a worksheet that can help you do just that, and that will link to in the show notes that Matt and I kind of crafted came up with that helps you walk through some of your own personal desires and then some of your desires when it comes to money, how money impacts your life's mission. And then we would say, come together with those worksheets that you've done on your own and start to discuss those hopes and dreams that

you both have. There's a really good chance that there are some crucial commonalities on each of your sheets, right, and so we would say, yeah, build on those so you can start heading in the same direction, because it's important to start building on the things that you already agree on. But what if you come back to that conversation with your partner after you've both filled out your own money mission statements and they are like some serious

differences between what you've both identified as important goals. You feel like you're trains running in the opposite direction. That that could be a little awkward and lead to some interesting conversations. Hopefully that's something that you do maybe before you've committed to a longer term relationship. Yeah, you have moving together, you have kids, all that kind of stuff, and it's like, wait a second, do I even know you? Like you? Probably that's an awkward place to be. That's

not where you want to end up. And it's definitely one of the reasons that you don't go on like one day with someone and then immediately get married, because you want to make sure you have commonalities, that you have shared goals in a purpose. But Yeah, to take a more optimistic approach, we would say you can make up those differences through sacrifice and through putting the other person,

through putting your partner ahead of yourself. And so it is going to it to be able to see some of those shared goals on paper is going to be really helpful, um in helping you understand the main concerns and dreams of your partner. I think it's gonna help you understand them a little bit better and hopefully help

fuel positive conversation as opposed to just money arguments. Yeah, and I like what used to do about sacrifice because like, honestly, I do feel that, Like, if there's anything I've learned over you know, many years of marriage is that I feel like it is less about compromise and it more it's more about sacrifice because it's about choosing to put whatever it is that you know your partner cares about

putting that first in your life. Right, Because if you do that, and then if they also do that, and you're doing that because you want to see them happy, and they're doing that because they want to see you happy, it's like this, you know, it's this upward, uh endless cycle of relationship building and growing stronger as opposed to

if both always having to meet in the middle. It's like, yeah, and so what I guess what I'm saying is like it's like a right as opposed to like fifty because on the other end of hundred is like each per in their own silo and being like, you know, only being focused about what it is that they care about. And so like we're not saying that you will get to do all of the things that you want to

do right now for the rest of your life. But what I'm getting at is that we can essentially change what it is that is important to us, and what is important to them then becomes what's important to us, and so ultimately they win and you win as well because you're happy that they're happy. Yeah, basically that that shared mutual sacrifice, it becomes a beautiful thing and it and it creates something this healthy dynamic in your relationship that wouldn't be possible if you were just trying to

meet in the middle on everything. I completely agree. All right, we've gotten more to get to. We're gonna cover some of the main money arguments that pop up most frequently and kind of give our thoughts on what the solution is to those, and then later on we'll give some of our definitive thoughts on how to kind of argue better talk about money better. We'll get to those right

after the break. All right, we're back for them. Bring And just before, Jill, you said that we're gonna teach folks how to argue better, And what we don't mean is that we're not going to teach you how to win every argument, but we're gonna help you to Uh, communicate better and to talk about things better with your partner. And so let's keep moving. Let's talk about some more

common money arguments. And this dynamic where you've got the overspender versus the frugal light like, that's just one of those like relational dynamics that can lead to serious money fights. When you've got one person and they have a tough time creating their spending while the other, you know, just looks on with horror, it's bound to result in not only some hurt feelings, but eventually in some hard conversations. And it's important to think the best of your partner

as well. It's it's almost never the case where your partner is out and they're trying to sabotage you, you and your finances to purposely make you angry. Uh. This is often the result instead of just a lack of financial knowledge or awareness. Uh. And if they do have some knowledge and if they are aware, instead maybe in

this case, just a lack of discipline. Yeah. So if that's a problem in your relationship where you are either the spender or the super frugal person and you find that there's just a massive imbalanced there, well we would say, you know, when it comes to how do you solve for that, getting on the same page is crucial. You can't just bounce from argument to argument with each successive spending mistake, like every time you get the credit card

bill and you're like, what did you do? That's that's just an unhealthy approach, Like that's not going to be the way to be able to move forward in a positive manner. And it's important for the frugal person in the relationship also to realize that they aren't just right

by default. I think as probably how to money list, you probably fall more into that frugal orbit and you might automatically assume that your spendthrift uh significant other is the entire part of the problem and the problem doesn't lie with you at all. We would say if you take that approach and you don't exercise any humility, then those conversations aren't going to go well either. Relationships involved

that give and take. They involve the ability to put yourself in the other person's shoes and see like what led to some of those mistakes, And like Matt said, it's not intentional sabotage if you're able to talk about it well and realize what is causing maybe some of those spending issues. You can talk about it a little

bit better without having to just automatically jump to accusations. Yeah, and I'm glad too that you said that just because you're maybe more frugal, that doesn't mean that you are right, because you could be so frugal that you're just wrong. Right, you could be at the point to where, for instance, like you say that you've been there before, so I can Yeah, Like you could say that, well, this is

important to me. We've identified that this is important to us travel, and so we're gonna pinch pennies so that we can travel. But in reality, if you're so cheap that you're not even willing to travel and and actually pull the trigger and spend money on the thing, well, it turns out you don't actually value that. In the same way, like if you have a partner who maybe values something else, it doesn't mean that they are incorrect because they want to spend money on something that you

don't to spend money on. But and I think like I realized that too early on in our marriage. Well, it took me a while to actually realize that and implement some of these things, But some of the things Emily wanted to spend money on, it was like they didn't mean anything to me. But she felt the same way about how I spent money, like the things I was interested in. She didn't care about that six pack of craft beer, but for me it was meaningful. And let's be honest, back then it was only like tin

dollar your prices. Have you know, experienced that inflation curve? But I think there, Yeah, there's a huge reality where if you're only thinking about how the money that's being spent makes you feel well, then you're being shortsighted and you have to think about how it makes your partner feels too, and you have to be able to kind of work through some of those dynamics together in a

positive way, not just keep screaming that they're doing it wrong. Yeah, and oftentimes the reason there's a miscommunication going on is because you don't have a plan, and stats show that using the word budget specifically can actually impact your ability to have a helpful discussion. We've tried to reframe this word on how the money because we think that budgets are actually a really good thing, but the general connotation of that word of budget is that that means deprivation. Again,

we believe that the opposite is true. But if using you know, instead using a term like spending plan, if that's more helpful for your partner to get on board with, and by all means use that. It's just important to point out that language matters. Uh, make it clear what it is like when you say that, hey, we need

to let's sit down and make a budget together. Make sure that you're communicating that, hey, this is a permission slip for us to spend how it is that we want to spend, I know, for us, for for Kate and I that is what got her on board was the fact that when we agree to spend this money,

we do it. And for us, it's almost just as bad to go over that amount as it is to go under it, because if we haven't spent that much money on a certain item or within a certain area, it means that we haven't lived according to a way

that we have agreed to ahead of time. And so we're getting kind of towards the end of the year here, and one of those things that stands up my mind is that at the beginning of the year, we decided that we were going to set aside a certain amount of money to go towards health expenses like going to

the doctor. Those aren't things that we have actually done, and that's a problem for us, Like because at the beginning you've gotten in the habit of not going to the doctor a decade, but at the beginning of the year, we identified that, Okay, I haven't been to the doctor in so long. Oh, I will say I wint got my eyes checked. Everyone knows I did that a few months ago. Kudos for that one charge. But there are several other visits that we had both planned to get

on the calendar and we didn't do that. And honestly, that's going to need to be a discussion because our actual actions are not aligning with what we say is important to us. In this case, we actually need to prioritize doing the things that we said that we're gonna do. Yeah, and you're right, man, I think budgeting is this way to actually achieve the greatest goals that you have as a couple. But we've turned it into this term that

is mostly negative. And so if it takes using a different term to get your your spouse or your significant they're on board. Use that term. Whatever it is, it helps you mutually get excited about something go in that direction. Somehow, we have to change it from like the budget, from being a stick to a carrot, you know, like whatever it is that's going to attract us to want to do it rather than feeling like it's something that is keeping us from the living the life we want to

live totally. And we would say you also might need to devise a better system, like a better spending system. Right, we like credit cards as a spending tool, but not if they're causing you to spend more, or if you're buying things that you can't afford, or if you can't pay your bill off on time and info at the end of every month. That's when credit cards become a bad thing for you, a bad thing for for your family. So specifically for the category of individual spending, you might

want to do a cash envelope system. If there's like a set amount that you both get at the beginning of the month, then it can help create those necessary boundaries. Because sometimes it is just the physical tool of a plastic in your hand that mentally allows you pushes you in the direction of spending more than you should whereas if you have a finite number of dollars, then that can actually help curb you're spending. So sometimes it might

take changing the system. Uh, the system is sending you up for failure, and you need to create a system that will create the proper boundaries so that you can actually succeed. You know, one of the systems or one of the rules that you might have in place to help when it comes to you know that dynamic between an overspender and a frugal light is UH to talk about different big purchases together literally create a dollar amount

that requires a conversation. And so for one couple, that just might be say fifty bucks, like that could be the threshold for you, But for another couple it could be two and fifty dollars, it could be five dollars, so there's no conversation needed when you, like are going to go out and buy a candy bar. But either way, that rule can curb a lot of unnecessary fights before they begin by making sure that the conversation happens on the front end before a big purchase instead of on

the back end. It all comes down to whatever it is that's going to work for you. But either way. That rule can curb a lot of unnecessary fights before they begin by making sure that the conversation happens on the front end before a big purchase and that of on the back end. It's kind of like asking permission versus asking for forgiveness, and it goes a whole lot further to say, Hey, I'm gonna ask permission before I do this and not just be like sorry about that

on the back end. It's going to lead to healthier relationship dynamics. And yeah, another common money fight is maybe one person handling all the money decisions, all the money tasks, and that can be frustrating, it can cause fights, but it's also we would say, just not good for each individual in the relationship. You know, we've suggested in the past that there needs to be a minimum split of ninety ten when it comes to financial tasks, when it comes to how you handle bill pay or every single

financial decision in your household. It doesn't have to be a clear cut delineation of fifty fifty. And that's because often one person enjoys money tasks more than the other, or maybe even uh is genuinely great with money. So, for instance, if you're listening to how the money you might be the half of your relationship who is doing the most heavy lifting in this area. And i's so carefully you're both listening and you're holding hand, and everything

is getting better. Right. It's like a fireside chat without the money. Yes, hopefully that's what you what you do on your date night is you just listen to this podcast. But yeah, we could say just make sure that you aren't doing all of it, because it's helpful actually for your spouse, your partner to have some exposure to the household finances. It's time to come up with a proper division of labor and decide who handles which money tasks. And so, Matt, I know a lot of listeners might

be shocked. I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but that Emily does the budgeting in our household, and people will be like, what, you're the money host, Like, why in the world does she do that? And it's not because I make her, but it's truly because she is better at detail oriented things than I am. I kind of like run away from Excel spreadsheets, while she's like kind of curious and doesn't mind doing them. And so yeah,

find out like where your strengths lie. And it's important that you're both incorporated into the finances in some way, form or fashion, so that one person is not doing everything and the other person is doing nothing. Yeah, it's important to divide those tasks in a way that works for both of you. And one of the benefits is that it could potentially stretch you both in a good way.

You know, you might not be used to relinquishing control, say of the Excel spreadsheet, like that might be temptation that I might have, but that's probably good for me to for kate not only to see that, but for to have some control over that as well. And you know, maybe your partner, maybe they don't want the added pressure of handling the bill pay but that doesn't mean that

they shouldn't. And so the more cognizant that you both are when it comes to your finances, the better off your holistic financial situation is going to get over time. Uh And and just keep communicating about this because you know, like these roles don't have to stay the same for forever. Like you might enter a season where you're just really busy and you used to handle paying all the bills, but maybe you're you're in a season of life where that's something that you have to to switch off on.

And also I think it depends on the type of involvement as well, Right, And so I'm like, I'm thinking of the month, the month tracking of our spending and our saving. I mean, I probably do ninety five if not of that, and I think that's okay. But it's important is that I keep Kate updated as to what

those figures are and what those numbers are. But when it comes to, like I mentioned earlier, like the bigger conversation that we have at the end of the year where we're setting goals for ourselves for the next year, where we're deciding how much we're gonna put towards vacation, how much we're gonna you know, set aside for kids clothing, you know, how much we're gonna spend on maybe adding

a little master bath. These are things that she has one percent involved in and I am one percent involved in. Like it's something that we we don't debate, but we are both very active. It's sort of like I was saying earlier as far as like prioritizing the other person first,

and you're both kind of leaning into it. That is just one of those times where we are both incredibly involved, uh and rightly so, because that is when we're making all of the hard decisions, and that's when we're setting ourselves up for, you know, the different goals that we're seeking after that coming year. Yeah. No, I like that.

I think it's important, and I think, yeah, you want not just a proper division of money tasks, but some of those tasks need to overlap, and you both need to have input on those bigger goals that you have because those influence where the money goes. And I would say it's also a good idea to do a little digging around and to ask yourself, why is it that we've defaulted to handling money the way that we do.

Spending some time talking through your history with money. Maybe it was like a money phrase to your parents always used. That's like stuck in your brain and you can't get it out. Money doesn't grow on trees, and you're like, dang it there right now, I have to like pinch everybody. And or maybe it was a financially jarring experience that

you found yourself in right after college. Maybe you did get a credit card early on you graduated, you had tons of student loan debts and credit card debts, and you couldn't get a good paying job, and that feeling haunts you to this day. Like, these different experiences shape our views and they have a massive impact on whether

we are like spend thriffs or whether we are penny pictures. Uh, And how much we decide to micromanage our financial decisions or not, or whether maybe we even attempt to avoid money conversations altogether. But yeah, understanding our own predispositions and our partner's history with money is going to help make any future arguments and discussions about money all that more productive. Yeah,

that's right. And on that note, has your partner ever approached you with the my way or the highway attitude? If so, this probably caused a fight that sort of approach. I'm right, you're wrong. Yeah, Like, that's never gonna work if you want to make any progress together. These different power plays are gonna, you know, provide setbacks for your relationship when it comes to making progress with your money

as a couple. And you know, one of the reasons this might be happening is if one partner earns more or even all of the income for the household. That can be a route for money arguments. And assuming that just because you make more money that you get to decide where the money goes for the household is an incorrect assumption. That approach will cause some arguments for sure.

It's incredibly unhealthy, and it's a reason why we think that, especially once a couple gets married, it is worth combining your finances altogether because it's not now going to be your income and her debts. It is all of your money altogether, and you're gonna make these decisions together. Yeah, I think that's definitely a cause for unhealthy dynamics, is when one person makes more and they hold it over the other partner. But that that of course is going

to cause money arguments. It's just not a healthy approach to money. And so yeah, I think that that's really the solution map that you just mentioned is treating everything in common, holding everything in common. That's the key to a successful long term partnership. And also, like there could just be a general tension around the fact that you're not able to get ahead with your money at all. Right, it feels like you're not getting anywhere, You've got no

traction that can be another cause for money arguments. If this is the case, you may not even be fighting about money because you're on the same page. You've identified shared goals, but because you're not achieving those goals, you're just angry below the surface on a continual bait basis. But it's just like spinning basically. It's sort of like the train that had the you know, it's got the tracks greased up. It's just sitting there and it's cranking

the cranking the wheels and not moving anywhere. Yeah, or at the very least, maybe you're annoyed at your partner and maybe you haven't even realized it until now. You're like, we keep having these chats and then no progress is made, and it's just so frustrating that we have an ideal that we're trying to meet, but we never actually take

any steps to get there exactly. Yeah, I could see this being like a more likely scenario if you know, neither of you or your partner have an interest in personal finance, or if neither of you are organized enough to translate those those shared goals that you have into a plan of action that you can execute. This is when there's just no follow through. And so for example, like you can't simply state that you want to be able to save some money to buy a house. You

need to get specific. So if you know that you're gonna put down, then how much money is that going to be? And then create an actual deadline so that this is a goal that you're both working towards in a in a timely manner. Like a non money example that I'm thinking of is like, let's say you want to meet up with some friends for drinks after work. Well, any time you do that, you set a time. You're not just like all right, I'll see you have to

work for drinks, It's like, okay, which bar? Which bar? Time? What time is that going to be? Like what day are we even talking about? Because you might have some friends show up happen they happen to show up on time because maybe you're got that brain melt going on. It's like you know where to meet me, but like some other friends might show up an hour late or at yeah, like at the wrong place. Well, anytime you

make plans like that, you get specific. You say where you're going to meet, and you say when you're going to meet, And unfortunately, when it comes to our money, we often aren't as specific with the goals that we're striving after. We don't say when it is that we want to achieve that by because there's a huge difference in saving for a down payment sometime in the next decade. There's a big difference between that versus next spring, right, because if you're saving for next spring, you are going

to be really getting after it. There's gonna be some serious sacrifices in your life and that's gonna be reflected in your budget. So it's important to get specific. Yeah, you don't want your friends showing up to the dive bar when you met the karaoke bar. Yeah, you gotta be specifical of stuff. And you don't want to be saving up for home down payment in theory. You want to be saving forward in reality and and getting specific, not just but then saying like, well, all right, what

home purchase price fits into our price point? What's that? This is the exact amount we need? How much money are we gonna need to see save on a every two week basis in order to get to the point where we have enough saved to buy that home? Yep, that's the process. You're gonna want to go through to

make it more tangible, more real, more specific. All Right, we've got a few more things we want to get to in this episode, including our best tips for how to avoid some of these money arguments in the first place. Will go through those right after this. All right, we are back from the break and Jil. You know, we've talked through some of the different arguments that many couples that they find themselves in, and we've talked about some of the key steps that you can take in order

to resolve those conflicts. But would it be better, even better if you were proactively leaning into some of these differences before they even flare up into a money fight. Well, we think that some preventative maintenance on your relationship might be the best approach, and so we're gonna talk about some of the best tips for how to avoid these arguments in the first place. And the first one is

that communication is key. Having just regular conversations, UH is so important, and it's important to just what these conversations look like. We think that they can be more laid back and even fun, like a budget party instead of Excel night. Which one of those do you want to pay a part of which the budget party with a with a bottle of wine or you know, a craft

beer like that sounds like a lot more fun. And this approach is going to lead to that being something that you both look forward to rather than something you resent. And over time, this will make money just much less of a touchy subject. Over overall, we wants you to be intentional with that time uh. And so this also means likely like turning off the TV uh and engaging in a in a more intentional way and also put

it on the calendar. That is such an easy way to make this a repeating event that you bow continue to look forward to as opposed to it being something that you both dread. Yeah, and the more frequent these conversations are, the less intense they become. If it's this like once a year's summit where you talk about money, it's bound to be really really long and more volatile. If you do a thirty minute forty five minute chat once a month or every two weeks, it's bound to

make that chat a little less daunting. And Yeah, another another tip would be to talk money history, like go back and discuss each other's childhood experiences with money, because that can unlock a lot of the beliefs that are

influencing the present your present day relationship really does. Like I mean, I don't know that Freudyan to talk about how her childhood has impacted kind of the way you're currently handering handling things, But it's true, like during your regular money conversations, explore some of those deeper money questions, you can make it less nuts and balthy and a little more like emotional and inquisitive. I feel like that can shed a lot of light on your partner's current approach.

It can increase your empathy towards them as well, all like when I'm able to tell Emily like the part of the my weirdness with money is some of the stuff that happened to me when I was a kid, And it makes sense, It clicks a little bit more about why I am the way I am, how I'm wired, and so yeah, I woulday get curious about your partner, you know, instead of assuming they're trying to sabotage your best efforts, try to see what's going on under the surface, right,

ask those helpful questions that so that you can better understand their fears and their concerns. Part of that is the past. Part of that is their fears in the presence. But those kind of conversations are gonna be kind of really fascinating. They're gonna shed some light on your partner in a context that goes beyond just pure dollars and cents. That's right. Another tip that we think is important, we're

gonna get empirical with it. You need to know the numbers because it is hard to make good decisions if you don't know your income or if you don't know how much you've been spending. And so we want you to look at the hard facts and figures together because that can help you to communicate more effectively based on what is actually happening in your life, not based on what you think is happening or what you hope is happening. And so this takes things out of that theoretical world

and back to reality. Uh So, this goes back to our point earlier about making sure that you both have tasks like you both are involved in your money. It can look different from couple to couple, but you both need to be involved one way or the other. Another tip two is is how it is that you communicate is so important. Uh and so recognize that blaming is

going to make things worse. You know, if you say things like you always do that, that is not going to be helpful when it comes to the different conversations you have about spending, and when you actually look at the numbers, you might be able to see, oh wait, they don't always do that. That was in my brain. I built it up. Yeah, that's right. These generalizations can be easily debunked when you know the figures and so kind of going back to that one when you know

the numbers. But nobody is going to be receptive to the you know, the blame game approach. Uh. If it's you who is being a little more proactive here and you're starting the conversation around your money, you can admit that there is work to be done, but lead by admitting your own shortcomings. That approach can create the space where your partner can then feel free to confess his or her own faults as well. We want you to be humble when you had these conversations and not immediately

start pointing fingers. Isn't it amazing how just being able to admit something, confess something first to your spouse it's or it just lets their guard down and they're like, yeah, wow, like absolutely, I get it. You realize that you aren't perfect, and so now I'm willing to admit that too. And Yeah, A couple other tips here for having better money conversations

is to remember that you're a team. And I specifically remember Matt Kate said this a couple of years ago podcast She's really smart, and she said one of the most powerful things that she had to learn that helped her to process when you guys didn't handle money how she ultimately thought you would, or how when you maybe made a purchase that didn't jive with kind of her

thoughts of where your your money was headed. She said, I just had to remember, like, we're a team and we have to work together, and even when one of us does something that the other isn't all about, you're still fighting for the same thing, and you have to keep that at the forefront, uh, because that changes how you respond in those situations. Instead of getting accusatory, instead of playing that playing game, you can say, you know what, I know, We're on the same team. That's what matters,

Like we can we can work through this. If you start to approach your partner like they're on a different team. That's when you're setting yourself up for the most severe kinds of money arguments. That's right. Not only is it going to be more effective to work together when you're on the same team, but it's also gonna be a

lot more fun as well. And one last tip that we've got for folks here is that we would recommend that you get help if it's needed, because sometimes things have devolved to the place where you can't have a healthy conversation with just the two of you, and so if that's the case, it might be time to bring in the help of a trusted maybe like an older couple who are friends of yours, or even a financial therapist.

But if you just can't figure out how to communicate without professional help, we want to make sure that you are seeking it out. That doesn't mean that you've failed. It means that you are taking your relationship seriously and that you're both committed to moving forward within that relationship. Yeah, sometimes that helpful outside third party perspective can be exactly what you need to kind to restore some sanity to those discussions. Yeah, but what we would say ultimately is

to remember that avoiding difficult money conversations. That's not what we're after, Like, we do want to see the elimination of those knockdown, drag out fights about money. That's not healthy. But it's important to note that progress is possible. It might feel like money is this constant source of frustration and tension in your relationship, but that doesn't mean that there isn't light at the end of the tunnel. That

you can't work through this stuff. And it takes time to dig yourself out of a financial rut that you might find yourself in. Matt, I think you know when I hear people say that they got into debt, credit card debt over the course of ten years and they want to know how to pay it off in six months, and it's like, well, that's just unlikely, Like it took you a long time to get here, and it's going

to take a while to get out of it. The goal isn't to necessarily get money arguments to stop overnight cold turkey, but it is to work towards progress in your marriage or your long term relationship and in your finances. And so it's important to make sure to raise your gaze to the common goals that you're pushing towards changing the way you talk about money really can improve your overall relationship in a big way, not just your finances.

And so yeah, it's important. I think when we can communicate in a healthy way about a subject that affects all of us in a big way, that sort of progress can translate to a whole lot of areas of our lives and uh, interpersonally too. That's right, man, well said. Let's go ahead, get back to the beer that you and I enjoyed during this episode. And I think the way that you pronounced this actually it's canna dankoa is that? How what do you think? Yeah, all right, I'll go

with you. You're done with that. I'll trust you on that again. This one was sent to us by Jason. Jason, we really appreciate you sending this one our way. We really enjoyed it. This was a classic cloudy hazy as I'll get out double I p A and you know, combined that hot tingly bitterness mixed with like that O J sweetness, all melted combined into one. The other half is actually a brewer that you and I have visited while we're up in Brooklyn, A couple of years ago.

Normally I'm where in my Other Half hat a good bit of these, uh this this time of the year, but with my hair actually being longer, I don't need to keep it out of my face. I just realized I haven't warn the hat in like over a year. Now, I gotta get a backman. That's a good hat. It's a good one. Yeah. Well, I really like this one.

I thought was like light, fluffy and hoppy like some of some of these beers can be almost like palette domination, like palette wreckers, and this one was like just bringing a bunch of different beautiful hop notes but not being like completely overwhelming. And I was surprised to see that it was a double I P A because usually those double I P s are a bit bigger. Uh, They're a bit more of like a punch to the mouth, And this one was like, No, I was like, nice,

a bit more finesse. Yeah, exactly. So I really appreciated this one. And I just like love everything I've ever had from Other halfs. I mean literally every beer we've ever had from them is amazing. It's been great. Ye, But yeah, I agree, Yeah, this beer at least you said like Fluffy. I feel like it had like a nice airiness to it, like it had room for you to breathe and think, uh, to approach it with finesse, just like the conversations you need to have with your partner.

But Joel, I'm glad you know I got to share this one. And thanks again into Jason for sending this on our way. That's gonna be for this episode. Listeners can find our show notes up on the website at how to money dot com and we'll make sure to link to that money Mission Statement for you to download and print out yourself and hopefully that can get you and your partner down the path of talking about money in a proactive and healthy way. Yeah for sure. And if it does, let us know reach out to us

feed email. We always love listener feedback. But that's gonna do it for this episode, Matt. Until next time, Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,