Stop Buying New Stuff with $Pro Katy Wolk-Stanley #072

that's so true, Matt. I think we're living in a time where reviews it's harder to tell the legitimacy of those reviews online. Right, So it's not that all online reviews can't be trusted, but we do have to be careful when we're especially on particular items, Right, that's the place where fake reviews are most frequently found. Yeah, certain

items at there to highlight or boost sales for. But yeah, we came across an article recently where the FTC announced a lawsuit against an online retailer on Amazon for paying for fake reviews, and as they looked into it, it it

seemed like there's a lot of this going on. There's at least a lot of suspect reviews going on, and so some of the telltale signs they said to look out for when you're looking at these reviews is to look out for reviews that have broken English, because a lot of these different companies are kind of farmed overseas

and the reviews are kind of half baked. Another sign is that if there is a singular reviewer, So if you see a great review and then you click on it and it turns out they've got thousands of reviews that they've left recently for different companies or maybe they're all reviews in the same industry, that's also a red flag. And then lastly, look for retailers that have a surge of positive reviews, all within a very short period of time. So, yeah, keep a lookout for all of those things to avoid

some of those those fake bogus reviews. Yeah, I think sometimes Matt, people rely on just that kind of that quick look to see what the star rating is for a product on Amazon or whatever they're shopping on, and it helps actually to dig in just a little bit, and you can tell by reading a few reviews kind of the people that have actually used the product, that are familiar with it. That seem to have a working

knowledge of what they're actually reviewing. And I think if you just go by that star level, you might get letters straight because there could be a lot of fake reviews buried in there. So yeah, go down and actually read some of the reviews, especially if it's a bigger purchase. And one other way you can avoid kind of getting taken by a bunch of fake reviews on a product and thinking it's excellent and making the purchase. There's a website called fake spot dot com, so check that out.

We'll we'll post that in the show notes. But yes, so when you cut and paste that link from Amazon, Walmart, wherever you're shopping into fake spot, it gives you kind of a grade. And for instance, on an item I just put in here, Matt, it says Ora Engine detected. In general, the reviewers have a suspiciously positive sentiment. So I guess this, uh, this AI is just intuitive enough to know too too happy exactly exactly. So apparently of

the reviews are reliable on this one. So that's why it's a great of f and uh so, yeah, it's just kind of helpful, a little bit of AI in your life, right to help you outspot those fake reviews. Yeah, Joel, that AI or there's different algorithms. They're they're helpful, right, they're different tools that you can use when you're looking at purchases. I know on Yelp specifically, they have different reviews that are hidden because they think, oh, this person

doesn't have enough reviews. Like they've taken steps in order to try to keep some of those bogus reviews from having too large of an effects on a business. But but yeah, you know, it comes down to an individual, because us as consumers are much smarter than any algorithm that's out there, at least currently, and so yeah, it's up to you as a consumer. I don't know, Mat, I've met some robots that are smarter than me already, so I am a little worried. So you know what

we need to do. While we're thinking about AI taking over jobs, let's step back and let's enjoy one of the finer things in life, a nice craft beer. Okay, and listener Brandon sent a beer called a Zy Dreamsicle Double I p A by a brewery called Arizona Wilderness, and Matt, I've heard fantastic things about this brewery. Never had any of their beers until I literally just sipped this a second ago. Sorry, Yeah, you all cheat and have like a tiny sip of the beer before we

actually announce it. And I'm the purest and I like to sit by and patiently wait so you can just look at the can art or something like that. Well, well I have a sip. Well you enjoy your rule following, and I'll enjoy my beer. Smells delicious, I know that, but this is uh double I p a with Arizona oranges, vanilla lactose and sit her hops. So this beer is supposed to taste like an orange dream sickle. And you

know what, I'm not gonna spoil it yet. We'll tell you what we think of this beer at the end of the show. We're not gonna spoil it, but you can put your money on it. Sure does. Dang it. You spoiled it all right, Matt, onto the topic at hand. We're talking about not buying new stuff in money pro Katie walk Stanley turned in her five minutes of wisdom that I'm super excited to share with everyone. She is the founder of the site non Consumer Advocate dot com.

Katie is super cool. She writes about ways to avoid buying new stuff, making do with what you've got, and in particular often her affinity for good will. She's a complete nerd for good Will. I feel like if you follow her her on Instagram, you're seeing a lot of good will shots much all the time, like her holding something smiling. She sells a lot of it too. She's got the side hustle going on right, and she sells a lot of the nicer items that she knows that

she can find in a good will. She knows she can sell those online. That's kind of like her side hustle. Yeah, make an extra buck. So she's a nurse that likes to shop at Goodwill and make a buck on the side. I like that. Yeah. Something else I like about her is she is not afraid of picking stuff up off of the sidewalk. So I am all about the what I call the curb alert. So just free stuff. I've picked up microwave before, like it was pretty new. It

wasn't like nasty grain, boots, building supplies. You know. I've scored all sorts of stuff on the side of the children. Yeah, if they're just sitting there. However, she takes it to like a whole another level. Recently, she posted a picture of a soggy towel on the sidewalk like it was wet, like a wet towel. And we live in Atlanta and we see these things and those are things you just do not pick up. No, no, I don't. But she has no fear. And I think part of it is

because she's a nurse. She's like, whatever, I've seen it all, I've touched it all. And yeah, man, she'll pick up like a wet, saggy towel off the side of the road, like in the gutter. It's like that thing home and clean it and throwing the dryer and it's like nice and warm and fluffy looking. Just by looking at it, I can tell it smells good. Yeah, her commitment is enviable. It's really impressive. The reason, Matt, we wanted to cover this subject today is because there is a massive problem

in our country. And the problem is that the friction of buying new stuff has become almost non existent. It's so easy, there's one click to purchase on Amazon. We just buy something new when we think about it, or when older thing wears out or breaks. We are a society that loves to see new things show up on our doorstep. In Chinese packaging and Matt there's this phenomenon even where somebody orders something on Amazon, they forget what

they've ordered. It feels like almost like an unboxing video for them because they don't even remember what they purchased two days ago when it shows up on Prime. I think that's just indicative of the fact that we buy too much new stuff. Not only is that a budget killer,

but it has ramifications to go even beyond that. Chedel I mean, over consumption has always been an issue when it comes to the environ because of the production of new goods that has to happen because all that old stuff has to go somewhere, right, And recently it's not only affecting the environment, but again it's kind of going back to to the dollar, but it's swinging back again and hurting US as a country financially, and not just the US but just other countries in Europe as well.

But that's the fact that recycling is becoming too expensive. Fairly recently, China is just is not accepting recyclables anymore. They used to be the number one buyer of recyclables, and that's just no longer the case invisible. Actually, do you listen to them? I don't. Yeah, that's they're one of my favorites. I've heard they're awesome. I really need to Roman Mars. He's got that deep, soothing voice, super dramatic. Kate King standum, but but I like him a lot.

But they did a really good story. And what China rolled out they called it Operation National Sword, and essentially it was them saying no, we're not going to take your recyclables anymore because of just how they want to portray themselves as a country, not just as this country that accepts everyone's garbage, basically where they melt down all the plastic and turn it into plastic pellets that get

to be made into new toys, things like that. From a financial standpoint, it's becoming a problem again where for years, for decades, it was affordable to consider recycling as just the easy solution, but unfortunately that's just not the case anymore. Yes, so, so many local municipalities and governments are having trouble knowing what to do with everything that you put in your blue recycling bin or whatever color you're recycling bin is

because there's no money to be made. On that recycling anymore. And so we as humans have to be thoughtful about the stuff we're buying, not only for the environment, but for how it impacts our personal finances. And so let's hear from Katie Woke Stanley. She's got some really good thoughts for us on how to stop buying new stuff. Just to reminder, every Money Pro episode we bring our Money Pro on for five minutes of distilled wisdom. Let's hear Katie's Now, Hey, Matt, hey, Joel, thank you so

much for having me on your terrific podcast. Now, before I get started, I figured I should be enjoying a nice craft beer, especially since I'm from Portland, Oregon, which is just home to a million craft breweries. But instead mm hmm, I will be enjoying a fine tableaud because that's how I roll. Now. I made a decision in two thousand seven to stop buying new stuff. This has evolved into what I call non consumerism, and it encompasses frugality, minimalism,

zero waste, and big picture financial goal sittings. A good example of this is my TV is about four ft thick, and yet my daughter just graduated from college without any student loan debt. The tagline of my blog is use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without, And that's just kind of how I think about my

purchases that my family makes. So not only does buying use keep my family on budget, but it also benefits the environment as our purchases usually come without any packaging, and most importantly, our purchases don't trigger the manufacture are a brand new items. And this is really important to me as I feel that over manufacture of consumer items is a global environmental crisis and that if we all really thought a little more critically about our own purchases,

that we could start making a dent in this. By examining our own roles as consumers, we can take control of how our purchases do affect the world we live in. For example, many of my household belongings and my house is fine, it's lovely, are things that I've dragged home from free paths in my neighborhood or I got through my local buy nothing group. Something you should check to see if you have in your area things I got

for free, hand me downs, thrift store stuff. People often misunderstand being environmentally responsible as something that you can buy your way into the idea that you can just get rid of the things that you have because oh the these aren't organic bamboo, when in fact, the most environmentally responsible choice you can make is to just kind of make do with what you already own. It's maybe not as pretty on Pinterest or Instagram, but it should be considered.

When you buy used, you give a second life to discarded and unwanted items, and since you're choosing secondhand, you can afford to buy higher quality things that last longer, are less trendy, which means that they're not going to appear outdated so quickly, and they can be repaired. A solid wood item can be glued, can be sanded, can be refinished. That particle board thing that you got not so much. Once it's broken, it's kind of broken. Then

that's it, and then it's off to the landfill. Now, you did an episode on How to Money about cheap versus frugal, and it was a great episode and it really gave me a lot to food for thought, and I want to just respond to it, but I feel that there's a third choice in there. There's a little bit of a false dichotomy, and that is where non consumerism comes to play, and that is that third choice.

And because when you are by used, you are getting things really cheap, but you have things that are better quality. And the reason I want to talk about this is I feel that a lot of people dig themselves into financial holes, living beyond their means, get themselves into debt that's very hard to get out of once you're in it. Because people don't want the stigma of appearing cheap. They don't want to drive the car that's kind of scrappy looking and maybe has some dance, although it may still

be completely functional. So I am here to stand up for the cheap people. Non consumerism allows you to step back from those societal expectations, to not keep up with those dreaded jones is. Take care of what you own or pay, are things when they break, Steer clear of those trends, and except that your stuff might not be a perfect is great is fine too. In other words, use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without. Thank you Joel and Matt for having me

on your podcasts. I've loved every episode. Keep it coming all right, Joel, Katie, she's dropping that poor Landian knowledge on us. I love it, and I love her motto to write, use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without. And after the break, that's one of the things that we're gonna unpack. Matt. We're back. As we wait into this topic of not buying new stuff, there was this awesome quote I had recently read from Maya Angelou and she said, we need much less than

we think we need. And I feel like Katie just kind of set us up to think through this idea of not buying new stuff just a little bit better. I think that title probably of this episode, even just people seeing that before they click to play, was kind of like, whatter Matt and Joel going to get into here today? Are they actually going to advocate not buying new stuff? And I feel like as we get through this episode, you and I will talk about our own

personal take on how we view buying new stuff. But more than anything, I feel like Katie's influence in how she thinks about buying new stuff is just really helpful. We don't all necessarily have to put a ban on buying new stuff completely, and I know that that's not the direction I'm headed in, but I'm really excited to unpack what she had to say, because it is changing the way I think about buying new stuff, and that is helpful, all right, So let's start at the top.

She mentioned how in two thousand and seven she stopped buying new stuff, and she calls it non consumerism, which is a little tongue in cheek, right, like you hear of a consumer advocate. It's like, oh, this is something that's that's for me, that's they're on my side. But she's kind of turning it on its head a little bit calling it non consumerism. I love that, just from

the very start. I love that. An example she gave was how she has like an old school four ft thick TV is what she said, What are this called like CRT monitors? Is that like with the tube? Maybe? Yeah, the tube television, that's exact, and those things are incredibly heavy. I I actually literally on the way home from work today past one sitting on the side of the road, and I thought of Katie because I was like, I know she would pick that up. I didn't, but I

know she would. She's like, that's an upgrade. So she has like an old school TV, but her daughter doesn't have any student loans. That dichotomy was striking. Yeah, I love that because for her, it's a decision based on her values. And Katie, she values there being one less TV in the lane fill and she also at the same time values not being in student loan debt. And obviously this is what a countercultural as many Americans have

the exact opposite kind of going on in their life. Yes, so what she's doing is just kind of reframing it for us and saying, like, I made a trade off here, and it's a trade off that most people aren't willing to make. But when you think about it logically, that idea of having a thicker TV in order to be able to pay down your student loans more quickly, that's really not that big of a sacrifice, right, Matt. I've

got a flat screen TV. I've had it for over a decade, but I've only got one and I haven't upgraded too four K, even though it's kind of been something that I've considered. We've only got one TV as well, but it is a four K because when those TVs came out, I thought they were freaking awesome. And I think that's part of why Katie's motto is so difficult because it challenges purchases that we make, maybe without even thinking about them, or even if we do think about it,

we think, oh man, that's old. It's you know, time for an upgrade. There's just habits and like the message of consumerism, they're fed to us almost daily, and whether it be through advertising or whether it be through just pressures of those around us. You see your friends, maybe make an upgrade, or there's just different pressures that we have placed on us, and they're not intentional. We just

absorb what we see and what we're around. And I think that rampant consumerism, that's one of the main things that I feel that Katie is kind of focusing in on. Oh, it completely is. And I think when you draw a line in the sand, a firm line in the sand, it can be so helpful in helping you actually total line properly. When you're walking that messy middle like you and I do a lot of the time, Matt, it it can be hard. It's easier to rationalize a decision

based on what you want right now. And so later on the show, we're gonna talk about kind of some tips of how you can actually still buy new things on occasion without sinking the whole ship. That's how we view this. But I gotta say I have mad respect for how Katie does it. And and she insists that buying used helps keep her and her family on a budget, and I see that, Man, it's working out for her for sure. They value a degree of financial freedom that

most people could only dream of. Katie worked part time as a nurse while her husband was in school. She's raised kids, her daughter has graduated college without any student loan debt. I mean, those are amazing things that seem out of reach for most people today. And the fact that she has drawn this hard line and has stuck to it, that's what's allowed her that financial freedom. Yeah, that's one of her passions, Like, that's her goal is to help people to live on as little money as possible.

And so, like we said, buying used it's more affordable, but also by default it's better for the environment. There's little to know packaging, and also it just doesn't trigger that manufacturing of new items. I think it's worth noting what Katie does buy new. She buys new underwear, socks, and perishables, right, And that's good because I don't know Matt. If you've ever been a good will, you're you're looking around. If you've looked at the underwear section, it's pretty growdy.

And so is there an actual underwear section? Yes? There is, Yes, of course they sell underwear, They sell bras, they sell everything that someone might wear underneath their clothes and socks. I will draw the line in that area. I'm not gonna wear your socks, still bother me, But underwear that's like a whole different thing. You would wear you socks if they're clean, okay, all right, like darn tough, or you know some of those nice like Vermont Will, like

lifetime warranty socks, dude, I totally pick. Some of those are those often found at the thrift store. I bet they are okay, especially after the Mrie condo epidemic. If anybody could find them, Katie could because she is a master good will shopper. But her husband will buy new by the way, but let's get into her motto, Matt, it's use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without. And that's kind of the lens that

she views all her purchases through. That's right, Jill, So let's go ahead and break that down some so use it up. And the way I interpret this is it's mostly about reducing waste. As a country, we throw out tons of freaking food. On average, we toss out one pound per person a day. That's insane. Yeah, that's an insane amount of food. It's estimated that we waste of all the food that's prepared for us as a country.

I mean that is a huge amount, right, And so not only is there a waste from a financial standpoint, but just think about the impact environmentally of all the resources and money that went into even creating like that head of cabbage that you let go too long in your fridge that now you're tossing out. It's just a staggering amount of food. Yeah, so they use it up motto.

It specifically makes me think that mixtime you think about going out to eat because there's nothing to eat in your house, go through your freezer and your fridge and your cabinet again, because I guarantee you most people can make a meal or two or three out of what they do have on hand, and so use it up. It's just a great thing to consider before you go off and and and make a purchase yea jule easily. And so the next piece in your motto is to wear it outs. And these are things that you already

have that might be getting old. I'm thinking about clothes or even more extense of things like cars. Again, as consumers were constantly fed like the new, shiny stuff, when instead we have items that function perfectly but they're just a little bit shabby, you know. I think this one's a little bit related to the use it up, Like there are things that you already have and instead of replacing it, just use what you already have, or in

this case wear it out. Specifically, Matt on the car example, people talk about driving a car until the quote unquote wheels fall off, And I think it is easy to get new car fever because your car has lost the new car sent or you start to have a couple of issues with it and you just get annoyed. You don't want to take your car into the mechanic and

go through the hassle of getting it fixed. But the wear it out philosophy would say, you know what, it's gonna be much better for your budget if you do continue to hold onto that car and drive it until the wheels fall off. Because if you get locked into a new car loan or even just buy a nicer, newer used car, that's gonna have like massive ramifications on your monthly budget. For you is to come all right,

The next part is make it do. And again this these are things that you already own, right, sort of like with wear it Out, Like you already have these things. But in this case, oftentimes you've identified a new problem and you think, oh, I need a new item, I need a new product to solve this problem. But chances are it's vice versa. Right, Why does that remind me of ice? Ice baby? What? You got a problem? I'll solve it? Like you think you need this new product

to solve it. But honestly, man, I really think it's the reverse. That's actually true. Like you see a product and in your mind you create a problem that didn't already exist. You see something and you think, okay, how do I get my hands on that? Like how do I convince myself? How do I convince my spouse a significant other that this is something that we need in our life? And so you fabricate this problem, even maybe subconsciously.

It's not like you're actively trying to undermine your own finances. But it's something that happens, and I think it's something we need to be aware of that we already have items and products in our in our life that work perfectly well, and instead we just need to make it do instead of purchased the next specialized product that will

fix that specific problem. Yeah, Matt, what I think of when I think of this tenant other than ice ice baby, other than ice ice baby, is those infomercials that you'd see on late night television, especially for kitchen items. There's always a specialized new blender or rotisserie cooker or something like that that you don't quite own. And I'll admit that we own the instant pot and it's a great device,

and spot's awesome. It's pretty great. I'm not gonna knock that it can actually eliminate a bunch of other devices, so it is a great one. But late night infomercials made a killing on essentially telling you that this problem existed in your life and that you couldn't make certain foods easily enough because you didn't have this glory device that was gonna come in and save the day and just make it so much easier for you. To make tacos or homemade sauces and soups or whatever it might be.

So what you have to do is you have to make do with what you have in your kitchen. That new device or kitchen, countertop cooker, whatever it might be. It might be like fancy and and do some cool stuff, but you can completely make do with what you have. It's more of a mindset issue than it is a knee based issue. Yeah, and specifically, Man, I think this

is definitely true when it comes to electronics. I'll go back to the TV example, because I've got the four KTV, and guess what, I thought My old TV was perfectly fine until that new TV came out and I saw it. And then I looked at my TV and I thought, man, this is Stevie's garbage, like, oh, the new one. And so for me like that technology. Once that came along, it pointed out the fact that whatever I used to have that worked perfectly fine, that I was very happy with.

Maybe it wasn't quite sufficient in my case. I'll admit I came up with a perfectly lame excuse to talk us into buying a TV. I didn't finance it obviously, you know, I got something we could afford. However, did we really need that? No, but it was something that I convinced myself that we needed. So in this case, Matt Katie would say, make it do deal with the TV that you've got. It's perfectly fine. And the last

tenant of her motto is do without. So in case you don't have something, it's also easy to convince yourself that you have a legitimate need and you have to buy that new thing. Even if you don't have an item that fits the bill that meets that need, you know, in all likelihood it's just a complete, the unnecessary purchase that doesn't really serve you in the long run, and so it might be better to borrow from a friend. But that again is another mental obstacle where people don't

want to do without. We see other people that have things, and we justify it in our mind. We don't want to do without. We want to buy that new thing because we think that it's going to have a major impact on our personal happiness, and so instead of doing without, we make the purchase and screw our finances in the process. For me and personally, to make it, do and do without mottoes are much harder for me to accept. When

I have something, I will use it up. When I have something, I will wear it out, Like I have no problems wearing something until it's threadbare or using a tool that's just falling apart, you know, like out in

the yard. But when it comes to identifying like a new problem and for me, like the making it do and doing without, it's when I've identified, like when I in my brain, I've convinced myself that there's a problem, Like I'm a fixer, and so when I see something that I feel like needs fixing and there's a product that solves that, well, that's what I'm gonna gravitate towards doing. Do you feel like you have a tougher time with

one of these compared to the other. I think the last tenant is the hard for me probably to do without, and that is I think more of like a psychological problem for me. It is coming to grips with the idea that that is not something that I need in my life. It's not a necessity, and I have to retrain my brain to think because I'm used to that easy purchase mentality. Because even though I'm cognizant of it.

I feel like my brain has gotten used to how easy it is to purchase things in today's economy, and I need to consistently remind myself that I can do without that, I don't need that new thing. And and that's just a retraining thing that's been taking time for me, although I think I made progress. You know what I'm thinking of? That would be like super helpful, like a shot collar, Like a shot collar I'm thinking of, you know, like on the missile nuclear launch buttons you have to

have like both keys. What if you and I had to approve each other's purchases and so like I couldn't just go on and make my own purchase. You had to be like, Matt, buddy, are you sure you want to make that purchase? And vice versa. You know what I'm saying, Then our friendship might have gone to a whole another weird level. But I mean, just some accountability, you know, like that way you can't just like on

your own makeup purchase without thinking about it. And I mean that specifically reminds me though of of a Seinfeld episode where George is trying to break up with this girl and she says it's like a submarine where they both have to turn their keys to to initiate their weapons at the same time, and he's at one point

he screams, Area's like turn your key, mora. And so it just makes me makes me think of that that if that's what it takes in order for me to make a purchase, there's definitely a lot more friction involved in that transaction. Right, sine field Man, how old are you? I feel like sinfel is such an old school thing, not that old, not as old as you. That's true.

So Katie's motto, I love it right. Another awesome point that she made is how there's a misunderstanding of what it means to be environmentally responsible, and she says that we mistakenly think that it's something that you can buy your way into. And she get the example of, right, the organic bamboo floors, you know, and we're like, the

floors that you had were perfectly fine. It makes me think of folks I even know who have made the purchase of like a new Prius where they're thinking, oh, yeah, this is gonna be better for the environment, where they had maybe a ten year old vehicle that was perfectly fine, when in reality, the most environmentally friendly, and the most environmentally conscious thing they could have done was continue to drive that old vehicle, because when they purchased that new vehicle,

like we talked about earlier, it triggers the manufacturer of a new vehicle. And certainly there's a tipping point, right Like, if you're driving around like an original Hummer, chances are that's probably gonna be worse for the environment than maybe buying the nubrious. However, most folks aren't driving an h one Hummer. You need to consider the things that we already have and hanging onto those things instead of purchasing things that we might consider to be more environmentally friendly

is the better way to go. Yeah, Matt, being green, being environmentally conscious, that's that's a good thing. But I feel like to a certain extent, going green has kind of taken on this alternative identity, and there's almost like a competition in our society for who can be the most green, and we wear it like a badge of honor. And there's certain things that just signal to other people that we are more green than everybody else, something like

driving an electric car or a Prius. But Katie makes a great point if you're buying something new and perpetuating the consumeristic cycle just to buy something that's quote unquote green, Well, you're probably not making the most green choice. So it's important when we're talking about out not buying new stuff, to not justify buying new stuff because of the green factor when what you have right now is perfectly usable and it's actually more green just to continue the way

things are. Yeah, Jue, I think it's worth mentioning how being green in the way that our media portrays it, you know, like the way you see it on commercials and the way you see on TV, like it's very pretty. But that way of being environmentally conscious is extremely expensive. Like just go to Instagram and Pinterest and you know, like the sort of green, natural lifestyle. It's not an

affordable lifestyle. I don't see it even being that different than someone that has like the membership at a country club or or a golf course or something like that, Like that's just part of their identity. They're paying a lot of money for it. I think in the same way, we can get pulled into being green as part of our identity and lifestyle, and that's when it becomes part of our consumption. And when we make unwise financial decisions. So, Man, it turns out buying used is actually one of the

best ways to help us avoid buying stuff new. So we're gonna talk about that and also give you some tips to help you if you struggle with just buying too much junk. Right after the break our jealous Land this plane of an episode, we're now going to talk about buying us. We're gonna talk about some tips and some additional thoughts. So buying used it allows us to purchase quality items that last longer and can be repaired.

And this is the core of the debate between quality versus cheap or in this case, the cheap quantity of items. And Joel, the problem is is that the items that are manufactured today are not meant to be repaired. They're not meant to be passed down maybe from a father to a son or a mother to a daughter. Appliances in particular are not made the way they used to be.

Like you had a plan to repair people, but today what happens when something breaks Typically it's not worth the time, it's not worth the parts that you would even put in it to get it up and working again. However, the decision still lies with us as consumers, so make sure when you are looking at things to purchase that you are considering quality, that you are considering how long will this thing actually last? Like she mentioned like the

particle board stuff. We know know that the particle board stuff from my Kea. It's good for a season, and even if you're trying to move it from one room to another, like it may not last that move. Been there, done that exactly. Yeah. So I think that idea of buying quality used goods for a cheaper price instead of buying a poorly manufactured new item, that's a great way to kind of think about your purchases, and even if you do decide to buy new, maybe spending more for

something that's higher quality that you can keep around longer. Sorry, Katie, I know that's not how you roll, But Matt, I become more okay with paying a higher price for an item up front that I plan on having around for a long time and just buying less trendy goods that I'm not tempted to replace sooner. I feel like that's better for the way I think about buying goods, and

I think it's better for the environment as well. Whether I'm buying a used item or a new item, trying to find that quality good that's worth my money that I'm going to have in my life for a long time to come. Yeah, and I do think. I mean, what Katy would argue though, is that you can get quality to just make sure you're buying it used. There's so much money that you can save by doing that.

And she called out our Frugal Versus Cheap episode, which is a classic, but she kind of mentioned how buying used is sort of that third option, how you can get those quality goods for that cheap price without appearing cheap. And it's so true, like that is the problem is oftentimes people don't want to look cheap. They don't want to be the cheap guy, they don't want to be the cheap girl. And buying used to sort of this cheat, you know, it's this work around where you are able

to get the quality stuff for that cheap price. And Joel you mentioned like you'd be less tempted to replace like a trendy item. You know, another benefit is not getting hit with that depreciation of buying that new item. In particular with cars, we've talked about that how quickly cars depreciate over the first five years. I would say that's the case with the items that we buy, they'd

appreciate like crazy. So you know what, let somebody else take that financial hit and you can show up a couple of years later and by the item used for way less. All right, let's get into some practical steps that people can take in order to kind of help them along in this process. The first thing to consider is any way that you can avoid the temptation to buy new that's gonna help you out in the long run.

It's people that you follow on Instagram that tempts you to buy new clothes or beauty supplies or whatever it might be. Consider un following those people or just getting on Instagram less often. If you find yourself running to Amazon to do a one click purchase, maybe take the app off your phone and consider ditching that Amazon Prime membership. Anyway that you can avoid the temptation in your life

to buy new, I think it's worth considering. And in particular, man if it's like at one time use item, if it's something that you're probably hardly ever going to use, consider borrowing it. I recently did this in the neighborhood with a tiller. I needed to tell some of the backyard because with the renovation that kind of got chewed up back there, and I wanted to get some green stuff growing. And I just threw it out there in the neighborhood, and a neighbor right down the street said, yeah,

come on buy, it'll be out there for you. I got to meet a new incredibly generous neighbor. Well he's not new, he's been around for like twenty years, but now you know, I'm he's new to you. Yeah, he's new to me. And now he's a buddy. And so I didn't have to buy this item that I would probably rarely ever use. So yeah, I look to borrow whenever you can. It's also smart to create an enforce a delayed per just rule. So this has been successful for lots of folks when they're trying to eliminate their

habit of buying new stuff. Think about creating a rule where when you have an item that you're really excited to buy, we'll take twenty four hours. Some people institute a four day rule or a one week rule, you know, whenever it takes to kind of help you assess a buying decision so that you're not buying on a whim. But if you know that you are actually going to buy something, consider used items and you can do that via different apps like offer Up. You can use the

marketplace on Facebook. We've mentioned that one more recently because it's just gotten to be such a robust form where you can purchase used items. But then obviously there's eBay. It's because Classic in eBay specifically is a great alternative to Amazon. If you're going to buy quality stuff, you know, it's just as easy to hop over to eBay into a quick search as it is Amazon. If that's how

you're used to purchasing your stuff. Also, consider going Katie Woke Stanley style and go to your local goodwill or thrift store. I feel like I find the coolest plaid shirts at the thrift store all the time. And if you're into plaid like I am, and the third store is like the perfect place for you to go. It's amazing. Are there more or less plaid shirts in Portland than there are in Atlanta? Are they all snatched up because you're in Portland? Or are they all being discarded because

there's just so many of them? That's a great question. I'll have to reach out to Katie and get the answer on that one. Also, consider avoiding sales altogether if they cause you to spend more. I know this was my mentality for a long time. If I found something on sale, I'd buy it because I thought I was saving money, But usually I ended up spending more because

I bought more crap that I didn't need. And so if that is your mentality, if you jump on sales and you're excited about off all the time, well chances are you're buying stuff that you don't need. With that kind of Black Friday mentality, that's when you would buy like six huge boxes of cheese it's right, and they'd show up, show up on the doorstep. That might have happened one time, and you know what, cheese it's aren't good for you. So maybe I should have stayed away

from that altogether. Yeah, junk definitely applies to that purchase as well. Right, that was the old Joel though, come on, don't judge. And then Matt, the last tip to help you avoid buying new stuff is to remember your bigger goals. That's your why behind money. We did an episode on that quite a while back. But thinking about those bigger money goals can help you stave off those smaller purchases, and especially those new purchases that you might make on

a whim. And so we're working on that actually with my five year old right now, she wants to buy a jump rope, and so she's got a few dollars in the piggy bank, but we're really trying to help her understand that if she doesn't spend it now on smaller stuff, but she can save up and she can have that jump rope. But if she spends it on little knickknacks, now, it's gonna take a lot longer before

she ends up getting that jump rope you want. So in the same way, if you can remind yourself, if you can write down, if you can put it in front of your face, those bigger goals that you have, it's gonna help you have the willpower to avoid those smaller purchases that will make it much harder to achieve those ultimate goals that you have. Well, you mentioned that you're working on that with Selma, with your daughter. I'm

working on that with myself specifically. I've been looking at bikes lately and I'm trying to convince myself or remind myself that no, this isn't something I need. Right, my desire to have a bike isn't greater than my desire to not be stressed and to work more, because I think I need to earn some more money to pay for that bike. And let's be clear, you have multiple bikes, so it's not like, yeah, I've got a couple of bikes. It's not like it's the one bike that you would

help you get around town. It's like the third bike that would be another one in your arsenal exactly. It's it's a bike that would allow me to do some very specific things and I've convinced myself that I need it. But again, just like you said with your daughter, it's the same thing as for us as adults. I mean keeping our larger goals in mind. And for me, that's being less stressed about money. For us, we're still working on this renovation, like we've got to get this thing

knocked out and wrapped up as well. So yeah, keeping those larger goals in mind is is so key, and I do that for myself as well. Yeah, Matt, I need those reminders in my life too, write It's not just me teaching my daughter, it's me teaching myself at the same time. And so, yeah, I want to buy less new stuff. I'm encouraged by Katie. I mean, I really am too. Yeah, I just want to buy fewer things.

It's been said that the things that you own ultimately end up owning you, and I feel like that's the case. And the fewer things I buy, the better I am at saying no to new purchases. The more control I feel like I gained over my own life and ownership. I feel like I have over the direction that I'm headed in, not just financially, but it's just those things just clutter everything up. Nice. All right, I'm gonna now

take us back to the beer again. We're drinking the Aisy Dream Sickle Double I p A, which is my Arizona Wilderness Brewing. Would you think of this beer, man? Yeah? Man, this reminded me of We've got this kind of old school Hamburger hot dog kind of place I knew you're gonna say, in downtown Atlanta. It's called the Varsity, and they've got this drink called the Frosted Orange, and it

kind of tasted like that in my mind. Like it it just kind of brought me back to childhood a little bit drinking a beer, which sounds weird because I'm supposed to be drinking beer as a kid, But it reminded me of the frosted orange and it totally has

that kind of orange cream cycle flavor going on really nicely. Yeah, well the reason it does is this I p A has It is brewed with lactose, which is milk sugar, so it gives it that creaminess right to where it almost has that ice cream like texture and even flavor on this one because it has vanilla in it as well, so it really is like it's this orange beer mixed

with ice cream. But yeah, I love that it had that vanilla and it almost felt like it had a touch of spice because of the sort of sharpness maybe from the orange, like they have this edge to it. Super delicious and yeah, we to thank Brandon again, thank you so much for sending this beer. And don't any to the show. All right, Matt, let's get to our final thoughts. And you and I were not necessarily convinced that we should never ever ever buy anything new ever again.

But I will say, I'm so impressed by Katie's efforts in this. Since two thousand seven, for twelve years, she hasn't bought anything new except for literally like underwear and perishables. And to me, that's just uplifting to see someone creating a hard line in the sand. And you know what, for a lot of us, that might be what we need, that kick in the pants to create some hard lines.

And that's not only going to be a help to the kind of environmental concerns by the over consumption that happens in our country, but at the same time just a massive help to our financial future. Joel and I like that you said kick in the pants. We say that often, but just being challenged, and that's how I view Katie's message, just just it truly is a challenge, and I want to end it with her motto, which is use it up, wear it out, make it do

or do without. You don't have to kind of cold turkey stop buying anything new, but yeah, at least consider what you can get used to. Really be challenged to buy fewer things all together. Yeah, Matt, I love it when our episodes challenge us as much as they do our listeners. And so yeah, this one was definitely that. So thanks again to Katie walk Stanley for coming on the show. Her website if you want to find out more,

is the Non Consumer Advocate dot com. And speaking of websites, if you want the show notes for this episode, you can go to our website which is how to Money dot com. And if you have found this episode helpful, we would love if you were to leave a review. You can hop over to Apple podcast and mash that five stars and you know what it's worth mentioning to Katie was the very first reviewer that we ever had on Apple Podcasts. Katie, we really appreciate all your support

from the very beginning before anyone believed in us. Yeah, thanks so much, Katie and Matt. Until next time, Best friends out, Best friends Out, M M.