Start Talking About Money #047

no good man. It was a little awkward, precarious the way you had to set up. Yeah, the metal kind of poked out a little bit too, so we kind of like cut your hand. You could like stabling your kids accidentally with it or something. But seriously, for weeks I have been concerned that it was gonna snap off in the ignition while I am far from home, and

that I would be stranded. It's specifically that it would end up costing me a ton of money to have to pay for a mobile key service to show up, have to pay their exorbitant rates, and then a few hundred dollars later I then have a working key, right, And so it kind of came down for me to this question of am I being cheap or am I being frugal by not replacing the key? And by the way, man, a lot of people get ripped off by locksmiths. There

are so many locksmith scams it's not even funny. And most of the locksmith scammers have really gamed the Google rankings. So if you google somebody local that's a locksmith, the chances are that the few ads that you're gonna see at the top are going to be from a scam artist who's going to quote you over the phone. Then it's gonna be thirty bucks, and then they show up and it's two so it's like a thirty dollar minimum.

Well that's the thing, dude. I So I was calling around to a bunch of the places in Atlanta and that's and they were all kind of shady. They either had a mobile set up where the guy would show up to wherever you are, which I understand because a lot of times that's what you need for a mobile locksmith,

but a lot of them are kind of vague. They would either say that there's like a third dollar minimum or something like that, but then they're like, well, It just kind of depends on the key, depends on the programming that has to take place. And so I would say, okay, well I'll tell you what I have. It's a you know, it's a Honda, this is this is what I need, and they would just say, oh, it just depends you just they have to be there to see. And I

did not like that at all. You definitely don't want to go with a company that, when you give them the information, they refused to get quote at least take a ballpark. Yes. And so because of that though, I've been avoiding getting the stupid key fixed, and we're not fixed. I just wanted to get another one made, but I was afraid, especially after we did our episode on Are

You Frugal or Are You Cheap? I thought to myself, Dude, this is something that is going to end up costing me way more money because I'm gonna be strained somewhere. I'm gonna have to pay out THEA knows because we're going to be in a situation where we need to get the van, where we need to get the car and head out somewhere right away. And so I finally did my research though, and found a place that was

a little bit outside of Atlanta. It was two double wides, kind of pushed together, the kind of place that you want to go for sure. But they did have good reviews and I called them. They gave me a straight up quote, and dude, I've had a working factory Honda key fob and I've got two of them now for just over a hundred bucks. I just wanted to share that because this is an instance where I felt had I kept kind of piecing it together. Literally, I could have I was using tape, I was, or I had

wire wrapped around there. I'd like kind of cut out a little notch, you know, to hold the key together. But I knew that eventually that was gonna end up costing me way more. And even though I had to pay, you know, over a hundred bucks for this, I knew that it was most definitely worthwhile because it was gonna keep me from having to pay more down the road. Yeah,

save you from being stranded or high and dry. It gives you the chance to do like some research from your desk, you know, while I find that right company without the stress. Yes, yeah, oh my gosh, that just sounds awful. Being strainded with the key, and then a lot of people too would have probably gone to the dealership to get a new key made. And it's true that some of those programmable keys are a little more

difficult to make them. They used to be, right. You can't just take your car key to the minute key Kiosk, how your Kroger or your Lows or whatever it is. But you're still not at the mercy of the dealership because they would have charged you probably per key set. I would imagine there's something close to that. Yeah, I

would think so easy, it gets pretty outrageous. So you know, doing your research, finance someone else that does it on your own time before that inevitable breakdown miles away from home happens where your key falls apart. That's the way to do it, man, Yeah, And I think that is frugal. Right,

that's planning ahead. I was able to do my research. Yeah, Yeah, that's planning ahead and not just leaving it to the whims of chance where you're in a much more frustrating position and in a position where you are probably gonna pay off the nose in order to get something fixed. Yeah, certainly, man. What I'm saying is I just felt like an adult while I was doing it, all right, Sometimes that sort of takes right. We gotta feel like an adult exactly.

All right, let's introduce the beer, Matt that we're drinking today, Zoos Juice by Westbrook Brewing Company and Angry Chair Brewing Company. So this is a collaboration beer collaboration. Yeah, Man, you pick this up at your local favorites craft beer shop. And what kind of beer is this? Yeah? So this is something I don't think I've ever had before. It's a sour wheat l brewed with a bunch of different stuff tangerine, pineapple, cherry, coconut, lactose, and marshmallows. So they

put the whole kitchens in this. So I'm really pumped to drink this one today, share it with you. We'll fill everybody in on what the what this beer tastes like at the end of the show. Cheers, man, thanks for picking that up. All right, So onto the subject at hand. We want people to start talking about money, Matt, and in particular, we want people to start having conversations about personal finance with their family and friends, and Matt.

That's part of the reason that we started this whole podcast was We wanted to have these conversations because they're fun for us, but we also kind of wanted to spur those conversations on for other people and give them something to talk about. Honestly, a podcast is one of the best ways to start a conversation about money because you can both listen to something and then come back

together to talk about it. And so I know that a lot of couples have used Financial Education podcast as a way to kind of spur talking about those issues and trying to get on the same page and unite. This episode is dedicated to helping spur those conversations in individual homes and in relationships. We just wanted to be more of an open dialogue because there's a huge issue surrounding the way we talk about money in our country. That's right, man, and it's just bizarre, almost right, how

these money conversations aren't a part of our life. We we talk about so many different things with our friends, We talk about things that might even seem more intimate and like personal with each other, but then for whatever reason, a lot of times friends and even family members as well, they just don't talk about their finances. But regardless of why,

most folks don't talk about money. When you don't talk about money, you don't get better at it, right, And so we all have room for improvement, and so we're here to talk about it. We're here to talk about how much we spend on groceries, or we're here to talk about the amount of money or putting aside in our fur own case. And ultimately, like the end goal that we're trying to work towards by being spart with

our money is financial independence. These are all sort of things throughout life that we want to talk about and hopefully shut some light and help this topic not be something that feels so off limits with you and your friends. Yeah,

and something that kind of struck me recently. Matt was seeing some of the articles surround owning the topic of financial independence, that there have been a lot of them in major media publications recently, and just to kind of see the takes that some are kind of this positive spin on the idea of financial independence, and especially people that are younger achieving financial independence, and then to see the other side where it's kind of mocked and made

fun of. And to me, it's no wonder that people don't want to talk about money that they don't want to get honest about it. They don't want to get real because on one hand, we're told that millennials in particular are stupid with money, they don't know how to invest, they're not thinking about the future, they want to rent, they're not buying into the standard American dream. So they're being mocked publicly by people that are older than them,

that who write the articles. And then on the on the other hand, there's this young group of people who are trying to get their financial game in order, who want to change the narrative, who are handling their finance as well, who are stocking away money for the future in stocks, in real estate. There are people that are are trying to be prepared right, and then they get mocked from the other side who says that that's ridiculous to think that you can get your financial act in

order and be financial independent at an early age. And so I think this narrative it stems from the stuff that we read in major financial publications. So let's just like you and I, let's let's say cut the crap, and and we're gonna say it's okay. It doesn't matter what Yahoo Finance says or seeing in money or any

of those guys. You control the way you talk about money in your life with the people that you care about, with your friends and with your your family, And so we're gonna give you kind of some practical tips in this episode for how to open up those lines of communication, for how to kind of transition money away from being a taboo subject in your house or where you live with your spouse maybe even and try to kind of make it a more approachable topic. So that's kind of

our goal here in this episode. I mean, I love that you mentioned millennials as well, because millennials, of all the generations that were out there for a recent survey, they are the most willing to talk about their finances

with their friends. But that being said, overall, seventy Americans still feel that it's rude to talk about their personal finances in social situations, which, man, it is just again just bizarre that there's just so many things that we discuss as friends or as family members, but money and just how we relate to money, and how what we spend our money on and the amount that we're saving.

These are just topics that we that we tend to avoid and it seems like the super taboo subject of politics or another super taboo subject of sex, like those are subjects that we actually feel more comfortable broaching, oh yeah,

than the topic of money. It seems like that that the topic of money has almost more of a poll like on our heart, And if someone asks you a question in a social setting about politics or sex, you might feel more comfortable answering a question about probably those subjects than you even would about money, which I think it's fascinating, which seems to be true to me just from kind of the experiences I've had talking with people

about money. And then it also just seems odd, right that we were so uncomfortable with that topic as a whole. And I think what it comes down to, Matt, is that most of us are just really, really bad with money, and that's why we feel so uncomfortable broaching the subject. I mean, and I think it's a cultural thing as well. I think a lot of times folks are raised to not talk about money. It's not something they grew up

hearing their parents talk about. And because of that, it's something that they translate into their own personal lives with their own friends and with their own family. It's like etiquette, right. You can blame that on the Emily post. She's like the etiquette queen, I guess, and I have my silver ware on the correct side at all times. Gotta use

that salad forward, dude. Yeah, Matt, and you and I both also think that one of the benefits of getting our friends and our family talking about money with us and having those conversations, it seems to make it more fun for everyone if we can actually start to have that conversation. Right, It might be awkward in the beginning, but ultimately it leads to more fun because we're able to talk about something that matters to us, that we

care about. Especially if you're listening to the show and you've been learning a little bit more about personal finance, you're you're kind of getting into it, and you're kind of realizing that the more you learn about how you handle money, how to save more of your money, and then how to invest wisely, just kind of prioritizing, you know, money going into the future, it kind of becomes like lonely, and you you want to share it with the people that you care about the most, and if you can't,

that sucks, Right, You want to be able to share to the things that you care about the most, and so ultimately it's more fun to share the things that you care about, you know, just like Matt and I share a beer every week, it's it's fun to to share the things that matter to you. What we're gonna say, you're gonna share your your money with me as well? Now because I'm I'm okay with that, I'll talk about

it with you. No sharing on that on that front. Yeah, man, Well it's more fun, right, but it's awesome more effective, Like how much more effective is it going to be if you've got your group, your friend group, or you've got your tribe, and this is something that you're all talking about, this is part of your conversation, as part

of the dialogue that you have with each other. And the times where I found myself excelling the most and whatever area of my life where the whether it be working out or academics in college, when we're really trying to do well, it was when I was working with the group, when I had friends that we're doing it with me when we're all striving towards the same goal.

And I think the same thing applies when it comes to money and being smart with your money and investing like all the things that we typically talk about on the show. And for that reason alone, man, get some people around you. You have that accountability and yeah, like you said, it's just way more fun. Yeah. I think really, when it comes down to the people that you hang out with the most, they rub off on you in

a major way. And so you are going to essentially reflect the five people that you spend the most amount of time with. And if those five people aren't talking about money, well, I'm not saying diet your friends, right, that's that's you could find another friend that can maybe I don't know, yeah, but at least try to work in like a new friend who's really good at numbers

exactly exactly bring on that six friends. But another way to tackle that problem is to start opening those lines of communication so that you can bring those five friends that you're really close to into some of those discussions about money topics that matter to you. That makes me think of Kevin Hart. Have you heard his Uh, there's a stand up bit that he does. It's it's called stay in your Financial Lane, where you talk about hanging

out with professional athletes. Yes, I've seen it. It's super funny. I'm not gonna at all try to imitate him, but he talks everybody wishes that I wouldn't trust me. But he talks about hanging with professional athletes who make tons of money, and how when he hangs out with them, it pressures him into making unwise financial decisions. And it's hilarious and it's not safe for work, so listen on

your own time. But dude, it is so funny and it's so true, right, Like that's the heart of any comedy, Like a good comic, right is there's truth and and and what he's saying there about that, it's absolutely true. We are way more influenced by our friends and they're spending habits, and not only they're spending habits, but their savings habits as well, and everything from what they do spend to what they don't spend. Man, it is also important. And so maybe yeah, look up, look up, Kevin Hart,

stay in your financial lane if you have an extra minute. Yeah, man, the thing that you said it is a second ago about your five closest friends and sort of bearing their savings and habits. I think I've heard something similar in regards to your net worth where your five closest friends. Essentially,

you're the average of your five closest friends. And so essentially, if you look at your the net worth of your five closest friends or what you're what they make, you should fall right in the average, like right in the middle of all all five of those. Yeah, man, I feel like, honestly, you and I are probably perfect examples for how if we weren't friends, we would probably both

be pretty good with money. But the fact that we are friends and we talk about it, I feel like we just spur each other on, oh yeah man, towards being better, digging deeper, going harder, whatever it is, like when it comes to investing in rental properties, or when it comes to investing a little bit more for the future in our retirement accounts. I feel like our discussions directly affect my bottom line when it when it comes

to how I handle money. And they're fun too write, and so I think that's what's crucial to note here is that it's not that you have to ditch your friends and find new ones. It said, it's important to have those conversations because because they're gonna be good for your friends hips. It's an important topic, right, it affects all of us, and then also it's going to affect your bottom line. You're gonna be better at your money when you're able to talk about it openly with the

people that you're close to. That's right, man, And so let's go ahead and take a quick break. But right after that, we're gonna talk about some of the specific ways that you are missing out by not talking about money. All right, Matt, we're back in the break and we're about to get to some specific ways that you're missing

out if you're not having these conversations about money. But first, let's talk about some of the reasons why people aren't talking about their money, because there are certain roadblocks in our way and it's just important to be aware of them. And some of those roadblocks are completely understandable to to why we don't have these conversations to begin with. And so we hinted at this one before the break. But one of the reasons why people aren't talking about their

money it stems from financial illiteracy. Learning about money is intimidating, and a lot of times there's just no structural system. There's nothing in place really to teach us. Only five states in the US right now require formal education in high school for personal finance. Man and in those five states, like they only require a single semester of a class that deals with personal finance, and that is so little. Yeah,

that's a huge bummer. I'm a huge proponent of personal finance education happening in schools, and it's such a bummer that it doesn't happen kids when you're sixteen, seventeen, eighteen. It's those are such formative years to start learning about finance and money and how that's going to impact you. We learned a lot about macroeconomics, but when it comes to the microeconomics of your personal financial life, I feel

like we're completely missing the boat. So most kids graduate high school not having any idea how to open a credit card or what sort of impact that's going to have on your life if you do. They don't know how to open a bank account or balance a checkbook. And I mean checkbooks are old school, right, so that might not be a skill you're gonna need for much longer. But I just wish that it was more of a thing.

And the great thing, I guess is with the advent of technology, so much great learning is happening online or on phones, right, Like you've got all the apps and all that's just right there at your fingertips. Kind of gamifies it a little bit, makes it fun. Yeah. The the tough thing is is helping the younger generation figure out where they need to go in order to get

that education. So it's out there. But then how do we reach young kids with that information that they so sorely need, but hopefully in a way that that's package that they can relate to. But yeah, it's a huge problem that kids are graduating with really no basic level of understanding when it comes to personal finances. And I agree, when you're completely illiterate at something, you don't want to

talk about it. If you don't know how to read, you're not going to talk about books, just this common sense, right. And if you don't know how to do anything about money, if you don't know how to money right, you're just not going to talk about it. Yeah, and so on the note, how did you as as young Joel, how did how did you learn a lot about personal finance and and how to make the right decisions once it

came to spending and saving your own money? Question is super personal and you know what, I love that we're able to talk about that all the sho because that's what we're into and so, you know, just to be honest with everyone out there. Uh, my parents weren't great with money growing up. They are lovely people, truly my heroes. Like, if there were two people you said you can be like any two people in the world, who do you want to be like, I'd say my mom and dad,

like for real. But they weren't great with money, and they didn't talk about money very well with me, and so I feel like, more than anything, I learned from them not handling it incredibly well. That's not probably the best way that you want to learn about money. But then again, I didn't necessarily have to learn from a lot of bad beats on my own, so I definitely

learned from that. But they also did really help me along when I was young, encouraged me to to get a job when I was younger, and that like sort of entrepreneurial bent that I have definitely came from my parents helping me and encouraging me when I wanted to get out there in the workforce, when I wanted to start mowing lawns when I was eleven. You know, my dad was there every Saturday helping me mobile lawns, helping me get the customers and keep them happy and stuff

like that. So there was kind of both sides. And then as I grew up landing a job in financial media that helped a lot, I was immersed in it every day. I was reading every day, and then that was my job, but it became my curiosity. On the side, I was listening to podcasts and watching YouTube videos and just immersing myself in the subject because it was just

fascinating to me. I loved it. So yeah, I mean, I feel like it's been something that's been a passion of mine for as long as I can remember at this point, But what about you, Well, you want to hear a funny story because you're talking about your parents, and it made me think of I learned a lot from my parents, learned a lot from my dad. I left him, you know, I didn't learn about from my dad. We're c d s, which sounds funny to say. I remember writing around with him. He had when when when

you say CDs are you talking compact discs? Are you talking? Well, that's the that's the heart of the story because as a kid, I remember riding around with him and he had this sweet Z twenty eight Camaro and we would you would get it all shiny on Saturdays and we'd kind of ride around in it sometimes on Saturday afternoon. Your dad so cool. He had a sweet car. It was loud, I remember that. But yeah, we would drive around and we would listen to music. We listened to,

you know, he had CDs. That was the era of the compact disc And during one of those rides, I remember him specifically teaching me and trying to tell me, you know, like a life lesson story and talking about investing, and he specifically brought up CDs and how maybe I should consider investing in those. But the problem is is I didn't know what the heck he was talking about, and I was too dumb, I guess, to ask. And so I was just like, I don't want to invest

in compact discs. I'm pretty young, but I think that's a pretty bad investment. I'm pretty sure they dropped precipitously in value right as I right as I take the plastic wrap off. Yeah, I mean I would go to CD warehouse and you know, I get my music there and stuff like that, but actually invest in c d s. I remember thinking, I don't know how I'm supposed to invest in c ds. But even if I did want

to do that, I don't. I just don't know how do I just buy the disk and not listen to it and I put it on the shelf like baseball cards. I just don't know. So I guess that's a good note for parents. When you're explaining financial terms to your kids, make sure you explain in terminology they can understand. Yeah, I think he did, but I was just like not the window, probably not not paying attention. So that sounds

like yeah. So another reason that people aren't talking about their money, Matt, is it's just not entertaining or fun to talk about money for most people, like you. I think you and I are outliers on that that we think it's fun. Budgets seem boring or out of place, or it feels like a forced conversation. Just money stuff in general, and right, it's this invisible thing that you kind of get to see what you can do with your money, but it's not something that's attractive or fun

to be around. Like accountants, like those those guys aren't fun, right, That's what I hear. Like I think of the oscars like the award shows, and they always have that that point when the accountants or the c p A is whatever, they walk out and they've got the briefcases with the votes. That's the most boring part of the show because they just stand there and they talk about how they've made sure that they did it right. It's like, all right, that's cool, and then Steve Harvey bungles it all up

and what else. But yeah, we think there's ways around that too. But that's definitely a reason why people don't talk about their money. And another reason is you might be afraid that your friends aren't going to reciprocate that you do open the lines of communication and your friends think it's ridiculou us and they shut you down immediately and they change the subject to like Kendall Jenner's Instagram page, I don't know, I don't what whatever whatever? What does

everyone else talk about? Hopefully not that right? But it takes me in vulnerable, And that's what stuff about that is you have to be vulnerable. You kind of have to put yourself out there and not everyone is necessarily willing to do that. It takes putting yourself in a place of weakness a little bit, where like you said, someone might you might even get made fun of a little bit, or they might freak out and say why, like why are you trying to get up in my business? Man?

This isn't something I ever talked about with anybody. I don't even talk about this with my girlfriend or my wife, Like, I'm not going to talk to you about it. But again, we're here to say that these are conversations that you should have, certainly with a significant other, but also too with friends, because certainly there's just so many benefits and by not doing that, you're certainly missing out. Yeah, and I want to say to Matt that not doing this can be harmful to all of us as a whole.

The more money is shrouded in secrecy and it's not a topic that we feel like we can discuss openly, the more our friends and our family and the people we care about are going to get ripped off by scams that are flowed around, or are going to run to a financial advisor and spend way too much of the money they don't have in order to get started investing, right, And the more that we can talk about it and talk about how easy money is, right, how it's so

much easier than you thought it was. You know, we talked about that early on in our retirement Investing is simpler than you think. Episode. The more that the topic of money is shrouded in secrecy, the more our friends and family are going to get hurt by overpaying, by overspending,

by not thinking about these things. Well, and I think you know, if you're listening to this episode, it's our job, numero uno, Right, it starts with us, like, let's start that conversation because if not, we're doing a disservice to the people that we care about the most. I think that's right, man. And just in case you didn't think that this was a big deal, right, we're gonna cover now some specific ways that you are missing out if you're not talking about money. So first off, you could

be missing out individually. And so we strive to be money smart, you know, for our futures. Financial security, Like that's something that we are working towards. We want to have options with our life. Does that mean that we want to retire and not do anything once we hit a certain age. No, but we want to have options. And so for you as an individual, if you aren't talking about money, you're not growing and you're not learning yourself, and that's that's definitely gonna have an impact on you.

And it kind of sounds weird to say, maybe, but your net worth, this is you and the amount of money that you're able to set aside for the long term. Yeah, Matt, and I feel like you and I have both benefited as individuals from our money conversations and our money conversations with our other friends. And so as a friend, you're also going to be missing out if you're not talking

about money. So if you're not great with money, you might have a friend who is a genius when it comes to their personal finances who could help you along, or vice versa. You might have a struggling friend and you could be that friend to them, and that deeper friendship from learning an entirely new side of each other, asking questions, having that conversation about money that can really deep in a relationship. Uh, if you're able to help

each other in that way. Yeah, we talk about everything with our friends, just about right, why don't we talk about money? We know, we ask our friends where should I go for to take my wife out on a date, Like whereas a new great beer that I can find. We talk about all sorts of things with our with our friends, but we don't talk about money. And that's

something that we can change right now. Yeah, Matt, and we talked about how access to information when it comes to money is ubiquitous now right there, blogs, their YouTube channels, there's some great resources out there for you, but there's nothing that beats, in my opinion, that face to face conversation with a friend or around the table with a

few friends. That's sort of knowledge that you can get from hearing someone's personal experience, or hearing what someone's learned along the way and how they've changed and been able to get their financial act together. Those sorts of actual conversations with people that you live and do life with. Those are the kind of conversations that are going to help change you and spur you on way more than

just a block article you read on the internet. All we talked about how you could be missing out individually, how you could be missing out as a friend, and now you could be missing out as a consumer, which sounds weird. To say, right, a consumer, because that's you

spending money. But if you're not willing to ask what the deals are out there or negotiate, say a lower rate or subscription, you're gonna end up spending way more every single month, right, because a lot of times these are recurring bills, and so you're getting twenty dollars less on your bill one month translates into twelve months, right, and then you multiply that times however many bills that

you have. Granted, this isn't you specifically talking about money with friends, but what we're saying is that by talking about money more often with your friends, and if it's a part of your sort of daily conversation, it is not going to seem odd, right, or it's not gonna seem foreign for you to talk about money with a customer service representative or someone that's trying to sell you something.

This is a conversation that you can just strike up because you're used to having it, and because of that, as a consumer, you're going to get a better deal. Yeah, and you might find out that you're smart. Friends, Sarah, stop shopping a whole foods and went to all the and it's saving like a hundred fifty bucks a month on groceries. They're just all sorts of life hack conversations that you can have when it comes to kind of

how we consume. And I love those conversations about, you know, ways to save a buck because that those are the easiest conversations probably to strike up. Right, Hey, how did you negotiate that internet bill with Comcast? Or or I heard you don't have cable anymore? What do you watch instead?

How do you get your content with? Those sorts of questions are the kind of softball money questions that you can have, and they kind of fall around consumption and people like to talk about that a little bit more than they like to talk about investing. Yeah, all those topics. Yeah, another way you might be missing out if you're not talking about money is as an employee, you might be getting paid less because you're not willing to approach the subject of money. Someone at the same job as you

could be getting paid more than you. And so the fact that we're not talking about salary, and especially for women, to study found out that forty six of women across all industries believe that their gender is holding them back from getting paid the amount that they deserve. So I know it can be really awkward to talk about money in the workplace, and that's why most people avoid it.

But we avoid it to our detriment. I think there are smart ways that we can approach the subject of, you know, what our pay is in the workplace without completely rock in the boat. You mean, like sending a company wide email and asking what everybody makes LinkedIn alert. Yeah, No, definitely not that. But you know, there's a website glass door dot com and that's a great website for kind of checking salaries in your industry to make sure that

your pay is commensurate. And there are a couple other quick tips that we can throw out there, and one is to talk to someone who's an actual friend where you work, right, it's kind of awkward to ask the person that works next to you how much they get paid. But if there's someone that you work with that you've become really close to through the years and you view them more as a friend than just a coworker, talking

to them about pay is helpful. And in particular talking to people that are in the same industry as you but work for other employers. That's a really good way to kind of broach the conversation about money and pay and it could also drastically affect how much you get paid every two weeks just by you know, asking those questions and opening the lines of communication a little bit.

And lastly, you could be missing out as a parent, So by not teaching your kids about money, you could be perpetuating the cycle of poor spending and poor saving. I think it's worth noting the impact that parents have on their children when it comes to money. What you're able to teach, and not only teach, but demonstrate to your your children can have a huge impact. And don't

underestimate that at all. Yeah, Matt and his parents, we lead by what we do, by our example, right, And I think a lot of times parents think, as long as I'm not screwing my kids up by telling them all the terrible ways that I've handled money, then they'll be okay. But our kids are learning from the fact

that we're not talking about it. They're learning something very specific when we refuse to open the lines of communication and we refuse to talk to them and include them in money decisions and teach them about money and possibly even open up about some of our money failures. Right. Our kids learn from those things, and they learn something dramatically different if we cut off those lines of communication

about that subject altogether. Yeah, we just talked about they're not being sort of formal structure is set up in place in schools when it comes to a formal financial education for kids. But as parents, you are the first line defense. You are the first sort of input that you have into your children and their view towards money saving and spending. Yeah, so, Matt, let's get to the practical tips, the actual steps you can take how to begin talking about money with your family and friends. And

we'll hit those up right after the break. All right, Joe, let's go ahead and now talk about steps you can take ways that you can talk about money with your friends and family. Now is the practical rubber meets the road. Let's make this happen. Speaking of rubber meets the road, let's take it back to my dad's Camaro. I could have been more direct with them, like, Dad, what the heck are you talking about? Yeah? I could have just

simply asked the question what is a CD? Instead, I was maybe too embarrassed or feel like maybe I should have known already what a CD was granted, this is in the nineties, I was a little kid, But simply asking the question, right, if there's something that you don't know or don't understand, be direct and just don't beat around the bush. I think with close friends or with family, you might be surprised at how much sort of time

and sort of hartate that that would save you. Yeah, I can save you a lot of time and trouble amat. I think most of us are too embarrassed to ask the question to follow up on something that we don't know. I mean, I know that's me at times. Oh yeah, dude, that was totally me right as a kid, I was so embarrassed of everything. Yeah in school, your teachers remember

those years, right, Yeah? Completely? Yeah. So yeah, in school, teacher teaching something and I don't have the guts to raise my hand and ask the question because I feel like I'm supposed to know that. But you know what chances are the other kids in your class have the same question and they don't know what's going on either. You just gotta make that clarification. Yeah, so raise your

hand and ask the question. And I think it's good for us to to just acknowledge that acknowledge the fact that many of the people around you have the same question, and chances are there's nobody in your friend group that has the solid answer. But I bet all your friends have a little bit of insight, and that's where the conversation starts. Yeah, it's happening to that hive mind. Yeah,

exactly right. So don't be afraid to just simply ask that question, because chances are if you have the question, other people do too, and they're not gonna think you're foolish or stupid. They're gonna be grateful deep down because you're asking the question that they wish they would have had the guts to ask themselves. Man, that kind of goes along with our next point, which is that a lot of times you're gonna need to go first in

order to get the conversation started. You might have to volunteer your own opinion or maybe how you do things first. So for instance, you can mention maybe just a deal you saw, Jill. You mentioned that earlier, how consumer habits is an easy and sort of light way to breach the topic of money with your friends. But even something as easy as talking about a new budgeting app that you're going to try out on the phone, or even something maybe bigger, like that you're gonna consider asking for

a raise. These are all topics that you might need to mention first in order to get the ball rolling. Yeah, you might even mention an awkward podcast that you heard with two weird dudes that host it, and I don't know, whatever it takes to kind of get the ball rolling right in another way, to kind of get that conversation started. That might be even a little bit harder, but oftentimes it's really rewarding is to share maybe some of your struggles.

I feel like we can all identify because we have all struggled with money at one time or another, and it is so refreshing when a friend or a sibling or someone that we love and are close to actually opens up about a struggle that they're dealing with. It's just so meaningful because we have those same struggles or maybe other struggles, but they're similar, right, and we're all human, and there's something about identifying on that level because suffering

is common to us all. We all experience it. And so if you can be that friend in your group that is willing to at least open up about a money struggle or something that you have overcome or maybe that you're still even dealing with that can be a

really helpful way to start a money conversation. Yeah man, And this goes back to one of the reasons why people don't open up is that this can be a really vulnerable point in your life to be able to do something like that, to maybe put yourself in what you would consider a point of weakness, right to not feel like that you've got all your all your crap together and feel like you can go with the answers. But sometimes going in with the question is one of

the best ways to find answers. And you're never going to figure that out if you don't put yourself out there all right. Another step you can take, Matt to get those money conversations started or to use real events, Yeah man, I think this one is especially good for someone who may not seem that interested in talking about

their money. If you know that it's gonna be an uphill battle to talk about money with a particular individual, using real life events, using some sort of practical way to get sort of under the radar and get talking about money is going to be the way in, and

so a way that's easy to do. This is think about maybe an instance where you have friends that want to go out, and if it's maybe towards the end of the month, or even if it's not towards the end of the month, you could say, Hey, I'm actually gonna have to sit out this time because my entertainment funds getting low for the month, and yeah, I'll just

have to meet up with you guys next time. And hopefully a response like that might get folks talking and they might ask you the question like, well, what's that all about? Like what are you talking about? You've got plenty of money, how how come you can't come out? And so that's the sort of thing that might sound lame, but for someone who is also struggling with money, when they hear that, a little light goes off and they think, oh, man, that's what I need to be saying, but I'm not.

It's like a leadership quality to right, that you can possess amongst your group of friends or with your significant other or with your kids. Right. A lot of this is kind of leading that charge, because a true leader opens up about their failures, like we just talked about. Yeah, and if you feel maybe a little uncomfortable being that guy or that girl in your group of friends. Maybe instead broaching a real life event in pop culture or with what's going on right now. So, for instance, the

stock market has had a rough couple of weeks. Maybe you could open up the lines of communication with a random conversation about that. And then you can refer to our episode where we talk about not timing the stock market. Right, that's something that's top of mind and a little less intimidating of a subject to bring up than everybody's personal budget, right, And and something else. Every year in the United States, most Americans get a tax refund, and that becomes a

popular topic of conversation. Hey, what are you doing with your sweet refund this year? And Matt and I had a conversation about that a while back. You can dig up that episode. But that's another kind of great way to spur on that conversation. It's something that's going to happen right early next year. Everyone's gonna be talking about it.

They're gonna be articles all over the internet about what to do with your tax refund, And that's just a great topic of conversation to bring up with your friends, your family. Hey, what are you doing with your tax refund? And you can kind of start a conversation surrounding that. There's common ground that can be had there, and who knows where that conversation will take you. All right, Joel,

Right now, quick question. If you had a tax refund right now, let's say two grand, and you could not invest it, you had to blow it, what would you spend it on? All right? The first thing that's coming to my mind not well thought out, but uh, probably another bike, honestly. Oh yeah, yeah, you know, I always thought it was weird how people that were into biking had multiple bikes, had multiple bikes, and they nerded out

of it and they wanted another bike. Man, now that I've been biking for about a year and a half pretty solidly, I'm kind of itching for like another really cool bike, different ride. Yeah, so that would probably be it, I'll do. That's a good answer, because right now, my daily bike that I ride the most often is the big cargo bike that used the hall the girls around on. But sometimes I just want to hop on a bike

and head up to somewhere close by. You want something's felt fast, something a little quicker, and I would love

to have something lighter. I was gonna say a trip, because I feel like K and I haven't gone out on a little vacation in a while, like just the two of us, So that's always I feel like that's always a good thing to to blow a tax refund on, if I mean, if you're not going to invest it, which wee would recommend investing it, but it's getting away with with a significant other that sounds really good right about now. Yeah, we would definitely recommend investing a strong

portion of that. But but a good trip, that's man. Yeah, I agree. If if it wasn't a bike, you probably would be for me and the fam or or or Emily and I to to take a little trip somewhere. All right, real quick, a couple more tips before you wrap this up, And I want to say that it might be easier for folks to talk in percentages rather

than actual dollar amounts. So when it comes to how much you're saving, for instance, that might feel weird to say an actual hard dollar amount that you're saving, But if you can talk to somebody else who might make a different amount than you do, but you're both saying, oh yeah, I'm sitting aside ten percent of my income as well. Well. Boom, you found common ground, which is awesome.

That way, you can have conversations like this with someone else who might be in a very different life stage in you, or they might have very different expenses, and all of a sudden you're able to sort of level the playing field and you know that you have similar approaches, you have a similar goal in mind, even though the dollar amounts might be way different. Yeah, it's a different conversation when you talk about your employer four oh one

K match and how much you're putting in. Let's say you're saving five percent of your pay or ten percent of your pay in a four oh one K. That's that feels like a less daunting conversation to have than your friend that tells you that they're saving sixteen thousand dollars a year in their four oh one came right, Like over achiever, right, But but that's just a more difficult conversation to have when you're talking about specific dollar amounts,

And so yeah, I would suggest for most people, unless you can, like it advanced level with friends that are super into money like you are, then you know, maybe you can broach dollar amounts. But it's just so much easier to talk about things on a percentage level, because, yeah, nothing gets lost in translation, and it doesn't make anybody

feel less than or uncomfortable or uncable in the conversation. Yeah, it could feel like sort of braggadocious, right, if you're the sixteen thousand dollar guy and you're socking that away, Well, that sounds like a lot of money, but it might be from a percentage standpoint, the exact same as somebody

else who might just be starting out at the company. Yeah, it can just lead to hurt feelings or people assuming that they're not doing enough, especially if we're not opening up about our salaries, which I don't feel like it's necessarily all that important for us to know how much each other makes as friends. Keeping it at a percentage level based conversation just makes things less awkward, a little

bit easier, and kind of standardized across all fronts. And another way that you can make people feel really uncomfortable, other than throwing out a huge dollar amounts that you might be saving or even spending, is shutting someone down with an argument. And so when you're talking about someone about money, make sure that you realize that you're having a discussion. You're not trying to win an argument. You're

not there to judge somebody. You're there too for the relationship, or you're there to learn something, or you're there to help somebody else. That's stupid, Matt, You're wrong. I win, But be sure to keep an open mind. We all have a lot to learn. Everything doesn't have to be a competition, and it's always helpful to remember that there's somebody and probably a lot of people out there that

are smarter than you are when it comes to this stuff. Right, So, every time I hear a guy like Warren Buffets speak, I am completely reminded of my own inadequacies when it comes to investing. But I don't have to be better than a Warrbuffett or know as much as he does. I can appreciate who he is from afar and appreciate his robust knowledge, but there's no need for me to become as smart as Warran Buffett, and there's no need for us to put up a front and pretend like

we are something better than we are. Like Matt said, it's not a competition, and at the end of a day, the most important thing is retaining a solid friendship or meaningful relationship with your significant other or family members, and so coming at it from an opinionated or argumentative mindset is going to shut down the lines of communication. Right. We talked about how vulnerability can actually open those lines

of communication. Well, if you approach the topic from a know it all or argumentative standpoint, it's going to do the exact opposite. It shuts people down and they don't want to have that conversation with you. And I'll tell you what I speak from personal experience, because I feel like I made some of those mistakes early on with

people that I love and cared about. I was learning a lot, and I cared a lot about the subject, and I was a little brash in the way I approached some of those conversations, and it's shut them down before they could really get started. And so it took some time for me to learn a little humility when it came to talking about money with my friends and

people that I cared about. So learn from my mistake and try to approach those conversations with some kindness and care, because that's what it's gonna take to actually get the money conversations rolling as right, Joel, Those are some wise words. Man. All right, real quick, let's get back to this beer. This is a collaboration between Angry Chair Brewing and Westbrook Brewing Company. It's called Zeus Juice. Man. This is a sour wheat ale is Ambrosia inspired, which I'm not sure

what that means. Drink of the Gods, right, That's why I think it's called Zeus, Yeah, exactly, But what does that mean when it comes to an actual beer. It's just it's just supposed to be funzies, just marketing. But it's a sour wheat ale brewed with tangerine, pineapple, cherry, coconut, lactose, and marshmallows. They put it all in there, man, what do you think you dig it do? To be honest,

I really did. And I think I mentioned this before, but I love low alcohol beers and this one's only four percent, but it packed so much flavor because of all those ingredients. It just kind of felt like one of those beers that I don't feel like it ever tasted a beer that was quite like this. It was pretty unique as well. You know what I have tasted that I thought tasted like this beer? Tell Red Bull.

Oh dude, that's interesting. Yeah, like that sort of candy tartness that comes with just like a regular Red Bull energy drink. I don't feel like i'm talking about I've had a Red Bull in a decade, so I'm trying to remember what they taste like, so I don't know that I can comment, but but I feel like there was that kind of candied cherry kind of notes going on.

So if that's what a Red Bull tastes like, yes, yeah, it was that and one other thing that I tasted later in the show, and I wrote it down because it stood out to me. Did you eat Captain crunch but with berries? I think it's called like crunch berries, I think, or Captain crunch berries. Actually, I think that's exactly what it's called crunch berries. Now, man, I don't think my parents would let me get that stuff in

the cereal for real. You never had Captain crunch No, it was like cheerios and stuff man, classics only for you, huh. I guess you know what, Maybe I go pick them up this sweet. If it tastes like this, then I'm in. If you like that and you want to get yourself some cereal, you would love some Captain crunch berries alrightne sold Yeah, I definitely had sort of a berry fruitiness to it along with like that sour wheakness. It was delicious. Yeah,

it was fun. I thought the lactose and the marshmallows kind of gave it this kind of fluffy pillowness too. Oh yeah, you're talking kind of crunch language. So this is really really tasty and I would definitely get more of it. So Zoos, Juice by Westbrook and Angry Chair also love a good collaboration beer. Those are always fun.

All right, Joe, let's give our final thoughts. Man, we want you to start talking about money, because money a lot of times just feels like a topic that is off limits when it comes to things that you talk about when it comes to your friends, and that's umb we want to change that. And whether it's because maybe it feels too personal, maybe you feel it's none of your business, there are a lot of reasons why you may not be talking about money right now with your friends.

It could be because you feel that you don't know enough, maybe you don't feel like you're doing a great job right now. Either way, it can kind of feel scary to talk about money when to talk about personal finance specifically with your friends. But we think that you're missing out ultimately by not having these money conversations. You're missing out likely on some individual growth by not having some

of those money conversations. And also your friendships are are missing out on a depth that they can have by tackling, you know, one of the subjects that affects all of us really deeply and being able to connect on that level with the people that you're closest to. There's something really cool about that. You might also be missing out as an employee or a parent, and so we would encourage you to have money conversations that matter for your

own personal development in all of these spheres. And to get the ball rolling when it comes to talking to your friends about money is that you're gonna have to probably go first. This isn't something that people tend to naturally want to talk about. And this is the step that's gonna take the most bravery. It's gonna be the hardest to do to you know, feel vulnerable and to

put yourself out there. The chances are if you don't do it first, that's not a conversation that they're going to bring up and that's a missed opportunity for a meaningful conversation that you could have had. Approach these conversations with care because you know, it's weird to bring it up. It's weird for the people around you too. Because we live in a culture that emphasizes not talking about money. Most people are just completely silent on the issue altogether.

So it might take some time, but it's definitely going to take a calm and kind approach, So keep that in mind when you do approach the topic with the people around you. Yeah, man, and just keeping it open mind. We all still have a lot to learn, and that's gonna be it for today. Man. Thanks to everyone for listening. Our home on the web is how Some Money dot Com. Check it out. We'll have those show notes up for you. Yeah, and if you like what you heard, please leave a

review on Apple Podcast. It helps get the word out to other people who also like talking about money. And don't forget to hit the subscribe button while you're there. So until next time, buddy, Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out.