Should Women and Men Handle Money Differently? #317

women might be handling their money differently. And then there's just so many studies to that inform us about how men and women have handled money differently in the past. But I think, too, um, there's a way forward after we see that that information, and I think, yeah, you and I are gonna have some some good advice, hopefully to share for men and women based on the stats that we've seen and the studies that are out there.

And we're gonna also do our very best to not completely step in it, because that's what I feel like right now, is that we're about to step in it. Well, I promise we're not going to come at this from like a madman perspective. Okay, even though we do like a nice beverage during our work day as well. Before we get into that, though, you want to talk about this fence issue that you've got going on and my

hyping it up. Maybe it's not an issue. Actually, well it remains we seen whether it's an issue or not yet. So at one of my rental properties, um my my next door neighbor who actually have never met I we used to live in that home. My next door neighbor rent out his home and and so even when we lived in that house, I never met him, but he left a note on the door saying, hey, please call me.

I want to talk about some stuff. My tenant really that on over to me, and it turns out he wants to replace the fence that goes in between both of our yards. And I will say, the fence not attractive and in sections it actually, uh looks pretty rough. It's a chain link fence that's just yeah, has not held up well over the years. But chain link fenstance have definitely fallen out of favor. I mean, I'm not

gonna lie. They're pretty hideous, Like we've got one on the back back side of I mean from a utility standpoint, they're pretty great. I mean it's like they will probably be there for another hundred years if you let it. You know, well, this one definitely will not really know, it's already kind of fallen apart in some spots, and so yeah, he wants to to replace it together. And so we're in the midst of getting a quote to kind of see how much it costs and if it's inexpensive.

UM willing to jump in on this especially. It's just like it's I feel like it's the right neighborly thing to do. But I will say too, man, if the quote comes back and it's too high, I'm not going to be down for it because it is something that's just not a high priority on my list. I've never had a tenant complain about the fact that the fence isn't in perfect shape. And so yeah, it's kind of one of those like TBD as to whether or not, UM, you know, willing to go half and half on this fence,

But my gut is telling me probably not. I don't know. Is that frugal or cheap of me? Ah? Man, This is such a hard one because so on one hand, with it being a rental. Like, in my mind, that's one of the benefits, you know, of having a backyard here in the city is the ability to have a pet. And so for runners thinking, hey, I've got a pet, I would like for them to be able to run in the backyard. To me, like, that's a selling point to having, you know, having a fenced in kind of

closed in backyard. Well, and they do actually, so interestingly enough, this fence is kind of up slightly raised on a hill, and and so many of my tenants have had animals. None of those animals have ever gotten out through the fence. So it's it's still does this job, okay, animals and still climb hills though, right, no they can, but it's just it's it's not possible really to get through or over the fence, even with like the disrepair that it

might be in. So I mean, okay, So the reason I say that because we found ourselves in a similar situation years ago at our old house. Before we moved out, we knew that we were going to keep that house as a rental, and the fence between us and our neighbor was in complete disrepair. I mean it was like literally there are sections of it that had fallen over.

It was an old wooden fence. It had completely rotted out over decades of being exposed to the elements, right, And so in my mind, I was like, you know what, I'm willing to pay because in this case, this is going to be a selling point I guess for future pendants. But yeah, I mean the fact is is it sounds like the fence that you've got there currently it still works, uh, And so I would have a tough time agreeing to

replacing something that still is kind of getting the job done. Um. And honestly, dude, from a personal standpoint too, like I know that's like, if any of my neighbors here like next to us wanted to kind of go in on a fence, I'm not sure if I would say yes, because I partly feel that fences are a little overrated. Sounds specifically thinking of our next door neighbors. They don't have any pets. We don't have any pets. Uh, They've got,

you know, a couple of young kids. And if that fence were to fall over or start to rot and we wanted to get rid of it, like I would be totally okay if it was just one big open backyard, Like I wouldn't even mind if their kids kind of, you know, played in our back yard a little bit.

And so I feel like this is like one of those expenses that it's found its way into our culture and it's like, oh, you've got to have a fence, or if there was in every yard, or if there was the fence there, you have to replace it, right Whereas I want to ask the question of like, well do you actually need to replace it, like is that something that that you could do without, because it's not like I gain a lot of joy from the back

that there's a fence between us. And so I think in my mind it kind of depends if it's Yeah, if it's an investment, property or rental, I would lean more towards making sure that there is a functional structure there between homes. But if it's me personally, as long as they don't have a dog, like I don't want a dog running over pooping in the yard, that would suck.

But otherwise fences might be overrated. All right, I think I'm with you, And yeah, well I'll wait and see what the what the quote comes back out, Yeah, if it's a pretty low estimate. If it's reasonable, then I might um jump in on this, But my natural tendency is to say, now, the kind of crumby fence is mostly doing its job, still gets it done, so let's

just leave good enough alone. I actually still want to see how that fence is falling apart, because in my mind, channeling fences, they don't fall apart like I mean, they're made a metal. All right, I'll show you some pictures. Yeah, all right, let's not mentioned the beer that we're having on the show today. This one's called on Cassette. It's my new Anthem. This is a brewery out of North Carolina. They make excellent beer. So looking forward to sharing this

one on this episode with you today, Matt. But let's get onto the subject at hand. We're asking the questions should women and men handle money differently? And Matt, I think part of the reason that we decided to tackle this kind of sensitive topic this week is because Valentine's Day is coming up this weekend. We figured we'd create an episode that discusses the differences between how men and women handle money. There will, of course be some generalizations

in this episode. We want to get that out of the way upfront. Many women buck the trend and handle their money very differently than how studies show, And we're gonna be quoting a lot of studies in this episode Brace Yourself, Yeah, and vice versa two. Right, there's a lot of men who handle money a whole lot different than studies show as well. I think there's a general belief that men shoot from the hip when it comes to money, and some of the surveys bear that out.

But that's obviously not the case for all dudes either. But I think there are things that we can learn from the data about the tendencies of each sex and their views and actions in the realm of personal finance. Matt, we want to have an open combo today essentially about the pros and cons of how men and women stereotypically handle money, so that we can find some common ground and then all start to make better financial decisions based on the information that's set in front of us. Yeah,

that's right. And and you know you mentioned the research, and I'm glad you did, because I mean, that is what we're gonna be looking at. We're gonna be looking at surveys, reports, research, um. And even though these studies

are focusing on individuals tweets, maybe some tweets, maybe no tweets. Uh, Like, I wanted to mention that we're we're not necessarily downplaying the fact that there are like structural issues within like our society and within employers, right like specific companies that lead to some of these some of these differences between how men and women are treated or how they handle

their money. Right, Like, there are certainly changes that need to be made in different steps that companies and you know, our society as a whole need to take to make sure there is more parity. But I mean, this is how the money and so what we talked about, or like personal changes we can make in our own lives. We're not necessarily looking at policy. We're not looking at some some of these larger issues that are a part

of the equation. Yeah, but it is important to acknowledge that they exist and say that's, you know, part of the deal here. We are gonna and some of the stats that we're going to convey in this episode are in part related to some of the structural problems that exist in our society. Yeah, man, you know, it's also important to note that COVID man it has had an

even greater impact on women than it has on men. Uh. You know, we talked about the swords the end of last year, but an overwhelming number of women have left the workplace since spring of last year, in large part due to the child care needs of their families. Women are leaving their jobs at a rate four times the

rate of men, which is crazy. And a recent Fidelity study found that thirty nine percent of women who haven't you know, made a change yet are considering a change to their work situation, you know, either leaving their job or you know, maybe reducing hours due to COVID. And the same study estimates that taking a short career hiatus could cost upwards of one hundred and fifty thousand dollars

in future wealth. Yeah, and so it's just some wanting to note that these decisions have implications beyond just money. Uh you know, but it's you know, worth noting that many women find themselves in an even more precarious financial position right now. Yeah, man, I think too. As we'll see in this episode. Part of the problem isn't that

women are worse with money than men. That is, I think sometimes there prevailing narrative, but that's not actually true, and I think actually, when we dig into it, we'll find in many of the scenarios we're gonna talk about, women actually have a better concept of how to handle their money, and they actually handle money better in practice too. Yeah, they do a better job. Yeah, ultimately that that's that's

certainly part of the takeaway today. And but one of the issues that women do struggle with more than men is the level of confidence that they have when making money decisions. There was a study of small business owners from the University of Cambridge, and they found that fewer women admitted to their business prospering compared to their male counterparts, even though their businesses were experiencing a greater level of profitability.

So women their businesses were doing better, doing great, but they just couldn't admit it. They couldn't they didn't have the confidence to say that that was the case. And maybe some of it was, um the the opposite, a little too much bravado in the case of the mails in that survey, right. But I think one of the things that we want to talk about today on this show is you know, you and I both want to see men and women exude confidence in their money choices,

and confidence is tied to knowing what you're doing. You can be confident when you know how the game is played and you know the next steps to take, which is Matt just such a big part of the reason you and I started How to Money. So we want people to have confidence to make the right moves with their money. And I feel like the feedback we get from so many of our listeners is that that's the impact that the show has had. People who didn't otherwise know what to do. They now have a playbook and

that breeds confidence. Um, and that allows them to go out there and start kicking but with their personal finances, absolutely, dude. Yeah, and and and so one of the reasons too that we're talking about this today, uh, and why we feel this is so important is that hopefully this gives us maybe a little bit of insight into the inner workings of our spouse or our partner, you know, a little

window into how their brain functions. I think that better understanding of why our significant other thinks the way they do about money can be helpful in future money discussions and decisions. And plus two, you know, hopefully it has further reaching implications as well. You know, the more known and understood someone feels like that's gonna lead to them feeling more cared for, more loved, which is only going

to result in a stronger relationship. Yeah, knowing our partner's tendencies is super helpful in how we approach them with discussions in particular about money. Maybe we'll be less combative when we're bringing up the topic in general because we

better understand, like where they're coming from. Also, Matt, I think knowing the money tendencies that each sex is prone to it can actually help us teach our kids to handle their money better versus using outdated methods of instruction that may be led to some of the disparities that we see in financial outcomes for men and women. Currently, families look different in one than they looked thirty years

ago or even just a decade. Stats show that we're seeing far more stay at home dads and more women bringing home the bacon. And that's awesome. So let's make sure that our sons and daughters received the identical lessons when it comes to money. And I think, Matt, sometimes in the past, um that that wasn't the case that young girls and young boys were taught differently about how

to think about money and personal finances. And I think in today's day and age, they need the same lessons because they're both just as likely to go out in the workforce, they're both just as likely to own their own business, to be saving for things for the future, and to be investing for their retirement, and so they need all of the same personal finance knowledge poured into

their lives as youngsters. Yeah, I mean, the reason that they're just as likely as also too, because they're just as capable, right, and so you know, another I guess reason too that we feel this is important is because we you know, we hope that listeners will be able to handle their money better by being able to recognize certain patterns and tendencies, you know, regardless of their gender. Uh, you might realize that you don't fit the gender stereotypes

as we discuss them in that's totally okay. And in fact, you know, like you said, you like this might be a good thing. And if you, you know, if you do find yourself nodding your head, you know, when we talk about how your gender does typically handle their money at least in some of these studies, well, then this

episode will be eye opening. Uh As, we're gonna talk about some important instructions as to how you can move forward, and so we'll get to some of the specific ways that you know, men and women might handle their money a little bit differently, but then specifically what you can do about that, and we'll get to all of that right after this break. All right, we're back from the break. We're asking the question today, should women and men handle

money differently? Matt? The answer to that question is gonna mean now. But there there's so much information that we came across creating this episode that we feel is important to share, and I think it sheds a lot of light in how men and women have historically handle their money differently. And then I think, you know, you and I have a way forward for all of us together

that we want to get to. There was a book, Matt that I never read, but I remember it was so popular a couple of decades ago called Men Are from Mars, Women or from Venus, And that just sounds like a book from a bygone era. I don't know if it's still sold in books are, so I'm sure you can find it like he use bookstore or something like that. That also makes me think of like t G I F on Friday is like going home watching

the four shows? Which one was your favorite? Hanging Mr Cooper or boy Meath world Sabrina to the Teenage which, oh yeah, that was a classic to a big fan of that one. Um. I obviously never read by the way men are from Mars women or from Venus. I wasn't really because you're like ten probably came out exactly, but you could tell by the title that the author

was highlighting gender differences. And while men and women do have far more in common than the author probably would like to admit who wrote that book, there are some really important divergences that are worthy of our consideration. Yeah. So, first of all, let's talk about how you get money in the first place, and that is you earn it right uh. And according to the Pew Research Center, women

earned of what men earned in eighteen Uh. That pay gap is shrinking, particularly for younger workers, which is a positive trend, but that is still a meaningful hurdle to overcome. The pay gap is partly due to to work history, you know, like having kids as great you know, but as we mentioned with the Fidelity study earlier, taking time off to have kiddos like it often leads to fewer

job offers and worse income prospects. Not to mention that the years of not generating in any income, which often reflects years of not investing in a workplace retirement account, in particular if there's a match there, right, And those are some big disadvantages to overcome. Yeah, like you said at the beginning, Matt, that stat also reflects some structural issues when it comes to male and female pay. But

here's another thing to Matt. When we're talking about pay, women are actually often averse to asking for more money than their male counterparts. There was a survey from ron Stop last year. They found that sixty percent of women have never negotiated with an employer over pay. Women are also more likely to stay at a lower wage job

to according to the personal finance website The Balance. And that's not good, right, because even just a small bump in pay with a new employer or in a job that you've been in for years, can have just a massive impact on your ability to earn more throughout the years and then also save more for retirement. So I think of all of the things in this episode where we see maybe you know women as a sex falling short it is in the ability to ask for more

knowing what they're worth. Yeah. Again, this is another instance where you might be listening and you're thinking, I've never had a problem negotiating a race, right, Like I've never had a problem asking for more money. And so again it's important to keep in mind that though the research shows us, like we know anecdotally that this doesn't apply to everyone. I'm specifically thinking of two. We had a conversation with Kirsten and Julian Saunders, the couple behind Rich

and Regular. Uh. That was episode eighties X, and Julian was just bragging about how great Kirston is at negotiating, Like evidently she's just like the Queen of negotiating more pay. Uh. So if you have to listen to that episode, go back and listen to that one. Is it regardless of your gender, earning more, It's just so important, right, and all of us could stand to up our abilities on

that front. Uh. And We've had lots of different conversations on the show that specifically cover, you know, not just stories of individuals negotiating, but just how to go about doing that. I'm thinking of Remiet Sadie, And that was back in the episode one ten and he outlined a great process, a great method. Uh, you know when it comes to wanting to up your salary, you know, like what steps you need to take in order to negotiate a solid raise. Yeah, I'm thinking to you, Matt. When

we had far New Sharabi on the show. She is just awesome personal finance expert. Um. And at the same time, she is someone who has made a killing as a small business owner. She knows her worth, she knows how to negotiate. Yes, So, like you said, there are many women out there who are crushing it, who don't have a problem in asking for what they're worth, who don't

have a problem asking for a raise. Um, it's just when you read those statistics, there are obviously a number of women who do, though, and I want to see that number changed for the benefit of women as a whole. Right, let's talk about spending. To do women spend more? That's an interesting question. My wife, personally, Matt hates to shop. I feel like she just defies the stereotypes. And I actually, I don't know. I don't mind shopping a little bit more.

Rolls are a little bit reversed. Yeah, exactly. But there was a study by the Wharton School of Business that found that women are more likely to view shopping as a recreational activity. My mom definitely fits that bill. But most men want to leave the store with their purchases quickly as possible. But even though women enjoy shopping more, it turns out men still spend more than women in a typical year. So while men might not enjoy the process of shopping as much, they still like shopping just

from a utilitarian standpoint. Sure, yeah, well, so that increased spending that actually dies with the stats as well. There's there's a survey from wallet earlier this year, and they show that men are more likely to max out a credit card. Women are apparently seven percent less likely than men to have maxed out a credit card at least once.

And so while women, you know, they might enjoy the shopping experience more than men do, a lot of different stats show that women are more cost conscious, you know. They they're more likely to shop at outlet stores, more likely to wait till something they want is actually on sale. Uh, they dig store brands more than men, and so you know, when it comes to spending. This is kind of this. This is definitely a win in this category for sure.

Uh and so I kind of see this as a call two men to stop spending so much dang money, especially on name brand items. Fan. Yeah, I feel like I'm totally guilty of this. I totally fall into the study. I don't like to go looking for the best deal like I do because I know I'm spending less, but like I'll look at maybe two or three different sites

and then I just purchase right. Whereas for you, like, I feel like you are so good at like hunting and making sure you're keeping your eyes on the best deals out there, making sure that you're spending the least amount of money possible. And I feel that's something that we all need to sure that we're doing right. And so, you know, regardless of who you are, we should all work to just become a little more conscious and how

it is that we spend our money. Yeah, and I gotta say, Matt's I don't care whether you're a man or a woman, but store brands should be high up on your list because they're gonna save a ton of a ton of money. It's just like built in savings when you go for the store brand under the name brand equivalent, unless it's your craft beer equivalent, and you're wanting to spend a little bit more on something because

it makes you feel nice. Yea, you just can't name brand everything, though, I think I think sometimes that's a tendency here, maybe that men have, uh, that men just gravitate towards the name brand no matter what it is, without thinking about it. And and that's where we need to shake things up, right, we we we need to consider store brands more frequently. Um. And also too, I think we've talked about this, that the quality of store brand items has gone up a whole lot in recent years.

Here it comes a Kirkland signature brag. There's other ones too, man like Target has um some great uh store brands that are better than their name brand equivalent sometimes. So yeah, it's not just Costco, but yeah, Costco rocks too. All right, Let's let's talk about saving as well. There's more good news here. It turns out that the savings rate for women is actually higher than their male counterparts. They save

a higher percentage of their pay uh. They spend less of what they bring in, and much of that is due to the more frugal tendencies that we just highlighted when we talked about spending differences. But even though women are saving a higher percentage of their income on average, they've actually got less than of what men have in savings accounts according to data from the Federal Reserve from

a few years ago. That is likely due to the fact that overall, they're still making less like we discussed earlier, which means a smaller amount of money uh saved overall. Yeah. One of the reasons women have a higher savings rate as well, um is that, according to a survey by US Bank, women of all ages value financial security more than men do. But here's the thing, man, that focus on financial security can often backfire if you keep more of your overall assets in savings and CDs instead of

invested in the stock market. Right, Like, savings for saving for long term goals is really important, but so is investing for the really long term. And so that's actually what we're gonna talk about next. We're gonna talk about investing right after this break, a break still tackling the tenuous subject of men, women and money, how they handle money differently, but then also how we can all think about money in a similar way, because we're really all in the same boat when it comes down to it.

And let's talk specifically about investing for a minute. There was a study from black Rock that found that women find less joy in managing their investments. I found that interesting that that just like women care less, they're less interested, less intrigued by investing. And honestly, I think that's okay, and and interestingly enough, I think that can even pay off for women. I think a lack of interest can have a positive benefit. So we'll talk about that in

a second. I hope everyone listening to this podcast, regardless of their gender, starts to gain an interest in all things money and finds joy not just in saving their money, but investing and growing that nest egg. But let's talk about how a tampered down enthusiasm can actually be more

beneficial to your investing success in the long run. Yeah, So you're talking about joy, right, And so this is like where where men might have a little more enthusiasm, a little more a little bit more joy when it comes to managing their portfolios could actually lead to maybe a little bit more misery the stock market in general, and frequent trading specifically have historically been more of an

obsession for men. Kiplinger has reported that men trade stocks much more frequently than women, and the more frequently UH we trade, the worst our investments are going to perform. Uh. Men are are getting a little too into investing by by getting into individual stocks. You know, it's important for us to take calculated risks like these are things that we need to do in order to see growth when

its specifically when it comes to our portfolios. But when you take too much risk and when you're too involved in the stock market and specifically when you're not exactly even sure what you're doing, that is going to lead to worse performance. Yeah, we've talked about that before. Maat the more frequently people trade, you might trigger tax consequences. You are in all likelihood going to be paying a

fee when you're trading stocks or ETFs as well. There's just so many things to consider, and the more movement you make in your portfolio, in all likelihood, the worst you're going to perform. Another thing too, when we're talking about investing and how women and men respond, well, an important thing to consider is that women live longer than men. About five years longer on average, according to stats from the CDC. So that means that they need to plan

to invest for a longer time horizon. That includes a greater willingness to invest more heavily in stocks and if possible, putting aside even more in retirement funds. And I know that that's actually hard, Matt, considering that. You know, we just talked about how women earn less on average than man and yet they're going to live longer and they need to save and invest more of their money. But it's so important in particular for women to be aware

of this. I'm thinking about my the mall who's ninety and she's having to make decisions about her financial future and she might still have ten, twelve, fifteen more years left to live, and planning for a longer lifespan means investing early and often is just even that much more important. Exactly. Yeah, And so regardless of your gender, having savings is great, right, in fact, it's crucial. But remember that inflation is the enemy of your savings account, Like, that's the real enemy here.

Over the past few decades, we've seen inflation right at two and a half percent, and regularly investing more of your income that's gonna give you important options for your future. You're not going to be able to preserve that money if you have it sitting in a savings account that's not earning that inflation rate. On both ends of the spectrum are sort of these extremes that we want to avoid.

We can't completely avoid investing, but we also don't want to become, you know, so preoccupied by it that we end up shooting ourselves in the foot because we're jumping in and out of the market. We're trying to time it where you know, we're dabbling in single stock investing when we don't know what we're doing. Again, it's hard to find that balance. But that's what we're trying to do here on how the money. Yeah, I think in particular, investing is a place where men and women can both

learn from each other. We can all stand to have some enthusiasm when it comes to investing, but not too much that causes us to go too complex with our investments or too disinterested where we don't invest at all. Right, I think there's a healthy approach to investing that both men and women should be taking that looks pretty similar, and I think to Matt, like knowledge breeds confidence. It

doesn't matter who you are. The more you know, the more likely you are to make the right decisions for your own financial good and for your financial future, and especially if you're in a relationship. Right both individuals need the confidence that more money knowledge provides. Too, smart and savvy partners coming to the table to tackle their money goals together is going to have a really important impact.

Trying to be the lone ranger managing your family's finances with a completely disinterested partner is going to lead to some unhealth I think in the relationship. And I don't think it's that you both have to be just as interested or just as committed. It's okay if you're spouse is more fascinated by the realm of personal finance than

you are. But at the same time, I think it's really important for both members of of that couple to be able to sit down together and talk about money, and both of you to have a say in where that money is going. I think some of these statistics, Matt, that you and I have been relaying in this episode actually reflects a level of unhealthiness that has taken place when it comes to gender differences in how we approach

personal finance. And I would love it if in our lifetime, if in the coming decades, we start to see men and women, both sexes, handling money better, each of them having a seat at the table playing more of a role in family finances, because I think, as we see, there's like a balance that's needed when it comes to

gender dynamics and personal finance. Yeah, and we're looking for balance suit not just between couples, but just even within ourselves, right, you know, like ultimately men and women, like they don't have as opposite of an approach as the headlines might make it seem. Uh, it's not like one gender is better than the other, you know, when it comes to

how they handle their money. Men and women, they might have some different psychological and historical societal norms to overcome when it comes to achieving their financial goals, but the actual path that we, you know, take his individuals should look more similar than dissimilar. It's important for everyone to have the right financial education and the tools necessary so that we're able to make the right decisions for our future.

When you look at the numbers, we could all do a much better job when it comes to our personal finances. You know, when it comes to our money, I feel I feel like we need a sort of our renaissance of personal finance, interest and education in our country in order to raise the tide for everyone. And I think we could all be doing a better job when it comes to our money. Yeah, I think you're right, man.

I think ultimately the answer to the question should men and women handle money differently, I think the answer is no. We should all be working to earn more money and know it or worth. When it comes to our jobs. We should all be looking to spend more cautiously with the money that we have. We shall be saving more diligently, and we should actually be investing and get interested enough in it to do it well, uh, and to do

it consistently, but not so interested. They were like Yosemite, Sam, when it comes to you pulling the trigger on you know, random investment sales and stuff like that. But hopefully this episode provided some perspective when it comes to maybe some of the tendencies that you experience in your own life with how you handle money and some of the ways to to move forward in a positive way. Most definitely, man, all right, let's shift gears. Let's get back to the

beer that we enjoyed on this episode. This one was called on Cassette and this is a beer by a new anthem and they are out of Wilmington's, North Carolina. What were your thoughts on this beer? Dude? Man? This was a delicious I p A. A little velvety some night like peach fuzz actually going on. And I was like soft in my mouth like that. I get that it was slightly sweet, but it also had enough hot

bitterness that I just really appreciated. I think a lot of the new I p s can be overly sweet, but this one still retained some bitter hot character that I really like having in a beer. But it offered that inside the package of something that was more juicy and sweet. And so yeah, I like the combo going

onto the time. Yeah, that's right. So this was a double I p A. And you know, it's it's not like this is a bitter, like a West Coast bitter I p A, you know, And so like for that reason, I like, I like to describe it less as bitter and more as like sharp, you know. And so I feel like the hot flavors are really sharp and pungent. It was like so pungent, like it's almost smoky, like

the because of the hot presence that was there. I've mentioned this previously on the show before, but like it truly does remind me of like that pungency that you get with like a blue cheese, where you put it in your mouth and you feel like it's kind of fuming a little bit, Like you can kind of feel it in your sinuses a little bit. And I feel that's one of the characteristics of these New England I p a s U I can. I feel like I got hops in my sinuses, which is would also probably

be a pretty good name of a beer. Somebody will probably do it at some point. But but yeah, man, I really enjoyed this one. Glad you and I got to shared on the episode. Uh and yeah, New Anthem they're just always making some really good beers up there. And I realized too, this is the actual first New Anthem beer I think that we've had on the show.

I looked in our little beer catalog expecting to see maybe this one, making sure that we hadn't had it before, and I didn't see that we have had a single New Anthem beer, which is really confusing, Like maybe we've had a collaboration before with them. I don't know. I think a listeners send us a beer from North Carolina one time and it was a collaboration beer and I think New Anthem was the other brewer in that or like they showed up and helped out Yeah, yeah, putting

it out. It's been a minute though, so I don't remember. But but yeah, it was a good beer. Glad we find we got to have a legit New Anthem beer on the show. Um, and that's gonna do it for this episode, Matt. So, for our listeners who want the show notes for this episode, some of the links to some of the studies that we mentioned, you can go to our website at how to money dot com. Yeah,

that's right up there on the website. We have a lot of different resources and also on the website if you go to how do money dot com, forward slash do better. If you want to leave us some feedback, if you have some thoughts to share in particular on a topic like we discussed today, If you have whether it's a personal story or or an anecdote, or just anything else you would like to put in front of us, We would love to hear from you. We're always interested

in hearing what our listeners have to say. Just drop us a line and then again that you r L is how do money dot com Ford slash do better? Alright, buddy, let's gonna do it for this episode until next time. Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,