Quitting Your Job The Right Way #509

the inflatable slide with a couple of beers. Basically, what we're talking about today is quitting the opposite way and not doing it that way, the exact opposite, and so we will go into detail later on during this episode. Real quick, though, man, we wanted to talk about the How Do Money socks that we just ordered. I'm sure

folks have been waiting for this announcement. It was episode five hundred where we talked about sending out some merchandise to listeners whose money tip we featured on the show, and it has taken us this long to actually get that all figured out. Bottom line, we were talking with the nice folks over at Sock Fancy, going back and forth on the design, trying to figure out what's gonna work, and we finally placed the order. We're really excited. They

look awesome. We are really excited to share those with with y'all. Definitely, it's the most money I've ever paid for socks before. I don't normally buy a hundred pairs of socks at once, because you don't get your socks at Costco, where they buy at least a hundred pairs of time. Well, in the same way, you do get that quantity discount, which we got. But even still, we received the invoice and we're getting ready to pay it, and we're like, oh, what if we can maybe score

some sort of discounts, some sort of sales. See if there's an your promo codes that they're offering. We wouldn't be the how the money guys. We didn't try naturally, we reached out and it turns out, I mean, we did get to know them over the past couple of weeks. As you know, you go back and forth, you kind of build a relations and ship, you build some rapport, and the guy was like, hey, you know what, you

got it. You guys will get the friends and family discount, which was a ten percent discount code, and so we were able to score a deal on the How the Money Socks, which is only appropriate. You didn't even have to marry his sister Matt to get it, no, And so we wanted to share this because we think that

in most situations it is okay to ask for a discount. Obviously, there are going to be some situations where it's inappropriate, specifically when you're dealing with like a corporation and you're standing in the check online at the grocery store, like they're not gonna just be like, oh yeah, let me give you ten percent off. That's not normally going to

be the case. No, but I will ask for the actual price that's reflected on the sticker on the aisle where I got the item, and because sometimes it will ring up in correctly and not all wait patiently for the price correction pushed back a little bit. But in a lot of cases, especially when you're dealing with individuals, you can ask for a discount, and oftentimes it comes down to how it is that you ask for that discount.

We talked about this back in the episode three seventy seven, and in a similar fashion, it was down to how you quit because you can go about it the wrong way, just like you can ask for a discount the wrong way. But we think that there is a right way and a wrong way to do everything. So just like asking for a discount, that's what we're talking about today, quitting the right way, you gotta do it with finesse, you

gotta do it with style. Yeah, And similarly, there is a way that you could have asked for this discount, and it would have been much easier for this guy to say no, and I could have made his job very easy. Yeah, the charge was the full asking price, right, but there are ways you could have gotten shut down really quickly, just by the way that you asked. And and similarly, the way that you quit can impact your

future job prospects and your immediate future. Especially we're gonna talk about people going back to work for the company that they quit, and so if you end up doing that poorly, well if that's not really an option anymore. But we'll get to all that in just a minute. First, Matt, let's mentioned the beer that we're having on this episode. It's called Bumblestick Nut Brown Ale by Burmari Brewing. We will give our thoughts on this cinnamony beer at the

end of the episode. But okay, so let's talk about quitting your job and doing it the right way, and it just talking about quitting, talking about, you know, asking for a deal, talking about all sorts of there's just a right and a wrong way to do almost everything. It makes me think of putting your toilet paper on the toilet paper holder. I think personally there is a right way and a wrong way to do this. So many people have the toilet paper coming out the bottom.

Crazy people with it dispensing against the wall. Yeah, yeah, that's where my hand is. I am on the wall side. No, no, I'm across from the wall, Like are you crazy? But obviously the toilet paper should be coming out the top, right, Like the same person installs their toilet paper. It makes

you think. Also, maybe someone at the beach and you see them in their beat red and they are without their shirt on, and it's like they didn't learn their lesson, Like you forgot to apply sunscreen the first day, and now you're doubling down by keeping your shirt off even though you already look like a lobster. How do they not know that sunscreen works? Magic, it'll save your booty. And same with a T shirt, I guess when you're

already read. But and just like there are ways to screw up your beach trip and your every day bathroom trips, you can screw up majorrely when when you're quitting a job, and so quitting poorly it just really can have long term ramifications. But so can quitting a job the right way. It can actually be a boost to your career. And it might seem weird maybe to dedicate a whole episode to this, but trust us, there's a lot to unpack. Like, yeah,

quitting is it's a it's a complex topic. Yeah. And part of the reason that we believe that this topic is important to cover is because more employees and more workers are quitting than ever before. We're still experiencing the Great Resignation, which started back in the spring of last year. But there's a chance that you may have even been part of the big quit yourself. But if you weren't, you might be thinking to yourself that this this is a fantastic time to make the most of a vigorous

job market. Uh, And so you might be parting ways with your employers soon. And we want to make sure that you do it the right way, because you know, let's be honest, the stakes are are pretty low when it comes to which way you put your toilet paper on the toilet paper roll. The steaks are gonna be

much higher if you handle your job quitting poorly. Yeah, well, I will say the stakes are high if I come over to your house and I find your toilet paper on the wrong way because old trashes, I'm not gonna be your friend anymore. It annoys me. Well, but let's talk about the why to here, because part of the discussion we need to talk about is is why you're wanting to quit in the first place, and statistics show that switching jobs is the best way to earn more money.

This show is called How the Money, so people obviously want to know more about that side of the equations are main angle dude, or saving more, earning more exactly, and and the the average. Just talk about the emotional components. How it's gonna make you feel, Yeah, exactly. Let's talk about our feelings a whole bit. Actually, we will talk about that comes into feelings a little bit, because that is important. Well, I think it's it's very important. And

we need to discuss that too. But but when it comes to compensation, the average wage jump is is almost higher when you switch jobs. That's that's on average, and when you opt to stay with your current employer, the average wage increases closer to five So you're making more money with every paycheck. It's a great thing because you're gonna be able to reach your financial goals more quickly. But like you said, Matt, it's it's important to think

about other factors. To one of the other factors, specifically in in the money in the context of money, is to be sure to factor in your total compensation, not just the headline salary number. I think sometimes people think just about, well, am I going to get a boost in pay, but you're missing out maybe on some of the other benefits that your current employer offers that might actually put those salaries more in line with each other. So we want to make sure that you hear us

clear clearly. Quitting isn't an inherently bad thing, but even good things can be done badly, and especially when money and benefits are on the line, we want to make sure that you're not screwing it up. Yeah, before we go any further, let's go ahead and kind of touch on emotions a little bit because what it makes me think about our alleys doing the emotional side of things.

It is important to be well rounded here because just think about what we've lived through over the past two years, right like that it has had a significant act on all areas of our lives, including our work lives. And so it makes sense that covid UH and it's disruptive effects that it might lead folks to make some different choices. But it is also important to avoid emotional decision making because changing jobs it can be a wonderful thing, but

the grass isn't always greener on the other side. It's it's easy to think that though, when your emotions are in charge, you know, considering that, I think for most people, the fact that the pandemic is behind us, like that the worst might be behind us, that is encouraging because I think that means we might be able to make decisions with the more level head as opposed to feeling like that we might be making decisions based on emotions. I'm just thinking back to what it looked like when

our kids were virtual schooling or learning at home. We couldn't visit our friends and towards exactly just pitsion fits and refusing to get on the computers. And look, we couldn't travel. There are so many things that we couldn't

do that I know personally it was difficult. Kate and I we were thinking about making some significant changes to our lives, but we were recogniz eyes that you know what, I don't think this is the best time to make a major, significant disruptive change like this in our lives while we are currently in the midst of something that

feels incredibly disruptive. Sometimes right in the middle of a stressful situation, you will choose to do something that is not in your long term best interest because you just gotta get get out of that. Situations like the fight or flight right and and interestingly enough, matt one survey showed that three quarters of folks who changed jobs during the pandemic have admitted feeling surprise or regret. And basically, I think what they found out was maybe their new

employer overpromised and under delivered. That that was the case for a lot of folks, where it certainly seemed like they were jumping ship to two sun of your skies, and in reality, the job, the work environment wasn't like they wanted it to be, and so they're just not as happy as they thought they were going to be

after moving on from their old employer. And then there was this article published in the Wall Street Journal last week about what they're calling boomerang hiring, and uh, it turns out a lot of employees who left in a hurry, they're finding themselves on happy in a new role with another company, and so they're they're like asking for their old jobs back. Many have only been in their new role for three, four or five months and they're reinterviewing

with their old company. They're going back to an old position or to a new position that's been created for them at their old employer. And so it's just important. All that stuff kind of goes in and it makes me think that it's important to be quitting for the right reasons. That is what's going to help minimize regret. You don't want to, like you said, not be making an emotional, knee jerk decision, because I think that's going

to have the most significant potential for a lot of regret. Yeah, not only is it important to make sure that you're quitting the right way, but that you're doing it for the right reasons. Okay, so let's talk about what you can do if you are thinking about quitting. If you love your job but low pay is the main reason for leaving, it's worth having that conversation before you know you show up and slap down your two week notice.

Your manager or your boss might have a lot of leeway to provide a meaningful pay increase right now, but only if you ask them, And so quitting in order to get paid more, it's it is a legitim reason to move on. You know, if you can get paid more with another company, leaving might be the right course

of action. But if you love your current employer and you're realizing that, you know what, the only thing that's really causing me to look elsewhere is the pay, then give them a shot keeping you with a salary increase. Don't leave without at least asking for for higher pay. And the same thing can be true to not just for for pay, but maybe it's just some different opportunities that you're looking for, or maybe you're looking for a

different role within that company. Assuming that it's a great company that that you enjoy working for, make sure that you don't leave without having that conversation. It makes me think of like, let's say you left your partner because they put their toilet paper on the wrong side of the role, like they were doing it incorrectly, and you never even have the conversation. Yeah, it's like no, no, wait, if they're perfectly every other way, have the conversation because

it's it's one of those things that can get worked out. Right, you want to leave over something like that, well, that's the thing to do with it. It's a big deal. But you still don't want to leave over or something like like. Again, as I think over the think through the past two years, I do think that we have stopped making for progres us in how well that we're able to communicate with with other folks, especially in person, because I mean, so many folks are working from home.

They are interacting with their bosses and their coworkers digitally, and sometimes you do need that face to face. Yeah, agreed. All right, Let's talk about flexibility too, because that's that's another reason that folks might consider leaving their job. Work from home is is obviously one of the things that people want a whole lot of. And so if your company has called you back into the office, but you've

gotten used to not coming into to not commuting. I guess I get the distaste for being back in the office full time. Like we talked about recently, there there are some perks for going back into the office, especially for folks who are earlier on in their careers and for lots of jobs. It's it's just it's just so much easier to advance in your career if you're around your coworkers, if you're kind of immersed in the company culture, and the psychological impacts of being seen at your job.

They're actually bigger than you think. I think sometimes people think that they can progress at the same route in their career, that the same at the same speed being at home full time, And I just don't think that's

the case for most people in most companies. Well and even just like individual well being, right, like I mean, aside from progression and advancements in your career, just like you said, like the ability to be seen what I see, there is a more personal, sort of deeper human level of understanding when when you're able to see somebody and appreciate that you know the work that they're doing. When you can appreciate them as a human being. That's something

that is also easier to be done in person than digitally. Yeah, I think full time work from home has made a ton of sense for a large chunk of this time that we've had it because it has helped curb the spread of a virus. But I do think as things are getting back to normal, there are a lot of plus sides to being back in the oppress for people.

And you know, maybe you just really do hate that commute though, Like, if it's the case that you still don't want to return to the office at all, then be sure to talk with your manager or your boss to see if there's some sort of middle ground that you guys can hammer out. Just start the conversation, because that's another thing where you don't want to quit without

having the convo. There's a chance that these rules aren't hard and fast, that they're based on your specific, big situation and the value you bring to the company, the value you bring to the table that your employer is willing to offer a workaround for the schedule that you need to keep, And so these are conversations that are worth approaching. It's not it's not worth leaving in a huff just because the mandate from on high it isn't conducive to the way you want a need to work.

That's right. So let's talk about networking here for a second, because even if you're not looking to quit, having a robust professional network is always important to do. A friend of the show Jordan Harbinger, he calls this digging the well before you're thirsty, and so you want to have this contacts, You want to have those relationships in place before you need them. Makes me think of the show alone.

We've talked about this here on the show before. It's where they get dropped off and h it's really beautiful. A lot of times it's it's remote, so you're just like, oh wow, this is beautiful, this is amazing. And oftentimes the weather is nice. But if you enjoy the scenery, maybe a little too long you put off building a solid shelter, you put off finding a way to uh procure some food, then you are going to be too malnourished. You're gonna be too cold to be able to build

it when you need to build that shelter. In a similar way, having a robust network of friends in the industry is massively important. And I'm not just talking about folks who you think can do something for you in the here and now. Looking to help others is also an important piece of the networking puzzle. You never know when that intern is going to become your boss, right well, and don't only look to like the long term when

it might come full circle. But even just looking to some of the different ways that you can assist somebody, where you can help somebody advance in their career, is just something good to do in and of itself. Yeah, networking is. I think networking is a lot of fun, just kind of getting to know other people. You're a social dude, Yeah, yeah, I just enjoy it anyway. I love meeting people of all sorts, of different backgrounds and interests. But it can be potentially helpful to you in the future.

But more than anything, I just think of it as a good time, as an enjoyable thing to do. Yeah, and to be able to help other people is something we need more of in the world. We need more people not networking just to further their own careers, but to really seek to make all of us better. Just to not be a jerk. This is more than not just being a jerk, like, okay, how can actually be

a kind and helping persons? Exactly? All right, Matt, We've got more to get to you about quitting and doing it the right way, and specifically, they are a bunch of financial things you need to consider before you quit your job, like how do you think about those benefits? How do you ensure you get the most out of them before you actually walk out the door. We'll talk about that right after this. All right, we are back

from the brink. We're talking about quitting your job the right way, and so it's obviously it's crucial to assess why it is that you're quitting in order to make sure that you're making a good decision. We talked about that earlier on. As we said, moving on to a new job that can lead to a massive salary bump, which can make a big difference not only in month to month but also over the years where you're able

to impact your ability to build wealth. But it's important to have your personal finances in solid shape before where you take a leap, and the most important part of that equation having a robust emergency fund that gives you uh the financial ability to whether a period of unemployment,

if you're quitting without knowing where you're going. So we're talking about here, isn't gear one that two thousand phone or sixty seven dollars of emergency fund, But you probably want to have something a little more solid, something more in that three to six months worth of expenses range. And that's what's so interesting about this too, because depending on your lifestyle, it's this is an incredibly customizable number. It all depends on how it is that you live

your life. It all depends on the expenses that you have coming out of your budget every single month. Yeah, And one of the ways to make that money extend a little bit further in your emergency fund is to actually change your budget from the normal budget you use every single month to what we call a bare bones budget.

And that's something we want you to kind of figure out ahead of time, so that you can instantly cut back if need be, uh, if you end up leaving a job and you don't necessarily have a new one yet, having a bare bones budget on hand can be really helpful because it can help you stretch those dollars even further, help you get more months out of your emergency fund

if need be. It makes me think about when your computer when you started up and it's kind of crashing or whatever, and it starts up in safe mode or a recovery mode or something like that. It's like you, you may not be able to do all the things that you're able to do before, but it is going to allow you to do the bare essentials. And that's that's what we're looking for with the bare bones budget.

That's exactly what we want. That's exactly what we want is we want people to have the safety the certainty of knowing that they can dial back their expenses like shelter, food, Yeah, clothing you you've already got that. You don't need to buy new clothes, right, Yeah, you can cut those streaming

subscription services. There are all sorts of discretionary things that you can take out of your budget to make sure that your money is going to be there for things like the shelter in the transportation, right that you're going to need to keep on hand. Yeah, but we would prefer for you to have a place to land figured out before you quit your job. Of course, it's always nice to keep the steady stream of paychecks coming in

but we realize that's not always possible. But not only is it in and to consider your salary, but you also need to look at the other other benefits that you're leaving behind, Joel, like you alluded to, uh specifically, one of the ones I'm thinking of is the f s A, the flexible spending account. So this is money that you've already stalked away, so make sure that you spend it before it straight up evaporates and disappears. This is one of those use it or lose it scenarios.

But the cool thing with f s a s is that you can use the full amount that you've elected, even if you haven't actually put all that money in yet, So keep that in mind. But you can spend this f s A money on things like sunglasses or sunscreen, uh, like you talked about at the beginning, you want to get sun overt to the beach, or just like over the counter medications, these are all common ways to spend down some of those dollars. Bottom line, you want to avoid.

Like as we're talking about about benefits, you want to make sure that you're not leaving this essentially the stash of money, the stash of benefits at your old employer before you move on. Yeah, it's it's money that you have a right to and you should. Even if you have that forty seven bottles of ib often in in the closet, it's used them good for like a decade. That's right, that's right, and you can, you know, give it away for Christmas presents this year if you want.

And so you know, one other benefit you're gonna want to pay attention to before you pull the trigger and leave your job is your four oh one K, and especially if you have taken out a loan from your four oh one K, because quitting is going to impact you even more acutely. We're not big fans of taking a loan out from your retirement account, although it does make sense in some cases. But getting let go or

quitting is where that loan becomes a real problem. And that's because if you don't pay that loan back in a timely manner, usually forty five to sixty days, so you gotta figure stuff out quick, you will be taxed on the outstanding balance of that loan as income. And in addition to that, you're gonna owe a ten percent penalty if you're under the age of fifty nine and a half and that can put you in a tough

position come tax time. So if you've got a four o one k loan, it's it's crucial to figure out how you can pay that back before you quit. It's not just losing the ability uh the match from your employer and the ability to contribute to your retirement accounts. If you have a loan, this can lead to severe financial consequences if you can't pay it back before you leave. That's right, But the good thing about four one k loans is that you're just paying yourself back. You're paying

yourself interest. But we're not going to dive into all the four o one k loan nuances right now. In the still, you know you're missing out on growth in the market time in the market. Another benefit to keep in mind is vacation days. You're gonna want to make sure that you are able to take all of your vacation or your personal days that you have accrued at your employer over the years. You want to plan your

exit so that you don't waste this valuable benefit. Some of those days could even be used during your new job hunt or if you realize that you're not going to be able to use them, try and see if your employer will pay you for those unused days. Keep in mind, though, all companies are different, so it is important to know the policy. So, for instance, there might be a cap on the number of days that they'll actually pay for, But you want to know what these

policies are and then act accordingly. Yeah, and if you have a timeline, if you're not like, man, I gotta quit next week, if you're if you're saying I want to quit six months from now, and I want to be looking that that that time horizon gives you just a better understanding of how to utilize these benefits. You won't necessarily have to get forty seven bottles sorr profen or or take all your vacation in a two week

span right before you leave. Like you can start to space those things out, spread it all out, that's right, Fridays off for the rest of the I mean, yeah, that's kind of what I'm talking to my mom about right now, because she's on the verge of retiring and she's got all these vacation time built up and they'll

pay her for some. But I'm also like, why don't you take some of those days now too, so because because she's got that timeline and she knows playing into the future when she wants to leave, that's going to help her do it. Well, is she still thinking, well, what if I get sick and she is she still kind of wanting to the stockpile some of those pay

I think so a little bit. But there's also it's also nice to know and not every employer does this, like you said, Matt, that she will get paid for some of those days when she leaves if she hasn't used that. And so another benefit that people have to think about besides vacation days and their four oh one k is insurance, Like what are you gonna do for health insurance? And if you're quitting and you don't have another job lined up, this can become a problem. Is

a huge deal. Yeah, you want to make sure you've got it figured out and then you're not flying by the seat of your pants. Try you know, the Monday after you're done with work trying to figure out how am I gonna do this health insurance thing? Gonna be popping that vitamin C staying healthy. But for all this is a big deal that bankruptcy because of medical costs are the number one reason for bankruptcy for individuals. That's right. And and maybe you can go on your partner's insurance plan.

That'd be great. Maybe you can sign up for coverage with the health sharing company. You know, we've gotten article that we'll put in the show notes about that. Matt and I both have health sharing plans for our families. You could also look on the exchange, the Healthcare Exchange to see what you qualify for. And the good news is that you can sign up for a plan on healthcare dot gov if you lost health insurance from your employer,

even if it's because you decided to quit. And so rates are actually reasonable for a lot of folks thanks to massiative federal subsidies. So this is one of the things you have a few places that you can look, where you can turn. But it's something you want to have researched, and you want to know what you're gonna do for health coverage before you leave. You don't don't want to be left without coverage because that can put

you in a body exactly. Yeah, So it definitely don't leave without health coverage and go skuide Ivan before you figure that that's right. Well, as we're talking about insurance, something you know this doesn't feel quiet as pressing, but it's still important to have, and that is your own life insurance policy. The reason is because what you likely have for your work is that that is not enough, and so it's time to get your own term policy

by shopping on the open market. Speaking of articles, we've got another article that will link to in the show notes that will explain to you everything you need to know about signing up for your own policy. And by the way, do not let the fear of what this is going to cost you keep you from seeing what life insurance is going to cost you, because it is way more affordable than you think, especially if you're young

and you're healthy. This is something that that might cost you in the range of like thirty bucks a month, yeah, sometimes even less. Right, it could be closer to a Netflix subscription. And and that is an important thing to mention, Matt, because even folks who are listening who have a job and they're like, I've got life insurance through my employer, I don't need another policy, Well, actually that's not true.

You in all likelihood do because most employers offer you something like one time's your salary uh in free life insurance and that's not going to be enough for you. And so you want to have your own policy in addition to that. Let that be the cherry on top, but you want to have your own policy that goes with you wherever your job takes you, wherever you're working. Um and you hear us read for different insurance as one in particular that starts with policy, but we would

under present believe it. This is it really is important. And if somebody is out there, someone in your family, and they depend on your income, you need to have a life insurance and talk about other places where you get a life insurance policy to like if your costcome member,

that's a good place to check. At the same time, so let's talk about transitioning to matt because it's important to not leave those benefits behind completely when you decide to quit, Like this is just another reason to not peace out on some sort of emotional win you want

to have. You'll make that rational decision. That's right. You want to have the j plans in place, and and there's a lot of stuff you need to have figured out first before you walk out the door, and that just takes me back to having something else lined up before you put in your notice. I mean, that's that's the best course of action because maintaining your current job it puts you in a stronger position as you're applying

for the roles. You know you don't have to jump at the first offer that comes your way, because let's say, well, I've been unemployed now for two and a half months. I quit thinking it's gonna be so easy to find the next thing. Sometimes even just onboarding to a new employer takes a while. I'm talking with a friend across the street and she is getting a new job, but lining up all the details is proving to take more time than she thought, and so herr she's still got

her job. She hasn't put in her notice yet, she's still waiting until they have an official offer sign. Did they ask her to mail a check to this uh, to this address? Or actually did they send her a check for all of her new equipment and uh? And then they're like, oh, I'm sorry, we overpaid. Can you

send us a cho like that? No scams here with this with this new role, you want to avoid that job, right, But the really the best thing to do is to keep your job until you have something else lined up, and and sometimes having that other job offer can actually result in something like a salary match from your carent employer, giving you a big pay boots without even having to leave if you don't want to. And of course another benefit to keeping your job while you're looking is that

it helps you avoid a gap in your resume. It's not the worst thing in the world, I think, especially these days with COVID and stuff, employers don't seem to care as much that maybe you took a couple of months off is becoming a bit more acceptable. Yes, agreed, but still it's one of those things that you can avoid. And it's also just gonna mean consistency of income. Like you're not losing any paycheck weeks as long as you're waiting to quit your job until you've got a new

one in hand, that's right, man. It is a little different though, if you're leaving your current job your current employer for a side hustle that might be becoming a little more self sustaining, you still want to leave on good terms, of course, for instance, that side hustle that might fizzle out and your old employer might be your best bet for steady employment. Like we like we talked about like that boomerang employment and you if you walked out with two birds up in the air, they're not

gonna want you back. They're gonna be like, mmm, I'm sorry, no place for you here. But it is important to note that entrepreneurship it's a great reason to leave a job. And this is exactly what more folks are doing these days. They haven't been quitting in order to just sit on the couch or to to live that hashtag van life. For the most part, they're leaving to go out on their own. And so if you're leaving to start your

own thing, more power to you. Just make sure that you've got a proven business model, You've got money in the bank before you leave that steady paycheck behind. Yeah you you, I like what you said, a proven business model. You want to make sure that your side hustle, it's not just puyeing the guy Like I have projections in the next six months, I'm going to be able to live, uh, and to feed my family and to pay all my bills.

Based on the trajectory of the profit increases I'm seeing you kind of want to get to that point before you pull the trigger. And I know it can be tough to to balance both things, your day job and your side hustle for an extended period of time, but I think it's worth it, and it's it's gonna allow you to to quit with more financial security, right without having to worry while you're making income from both ventures. You can stock more money away to give you extra

breathing room when you do finally quit your job. I think it's I think it's great advice. I think also pursuing that side hustle and trying to strike it out on your own is something is something we want to encourage people to think about. We think there is a whole lot to be said for starting your own business and making that your main thing. Actually, we're gonna talking about the next week on the show, aren't we. That's right.

So we have talked through some of the different tangible, hard specifics to consider some of the numbers and how you need to keep your salary in mind. But after the break, we're gonna talk about some of the more relational, some of the more social implications of quitting your job. The right way, and we'll get to that right after this. It's alright, Matt, we are back. We are still talking about quitting your job, doing it the right way. We're

still talking. We're still enjoying our beer. We talking to drink beer a lot. And one of the things actually we'll get to in in this section of the show is how you can maybe get paid to quit. That's interesting. We'll talk about that in just a minute. But yeah, we were just talking through salary and the specific benefits that you want to consider before you quit. You want to make sure you don't leave money on the table

or leave those vacation days on the table. And then right before the break, we discussed how to bridge the gap from one job to another and how to transition well basically, so let's continue on that thread and talk about giving your notice because you don't want to just not show up for work one day. It's actually reminds me of a job I had. I think one of my favorite jobs of all time. Your favorite job was

working out the photo lab. This is a but yeah, the Ecord Photo Lab was was my favorite favorite job ever. And I worked there with my buddy Caleb, and he actually quit in a really interesting way. He just left a note under the photo scanner for the manager, came in the next morning saying I'm never coming back, and and so, yeah, quitting in that way isn't going to endear you to anyone, and in fact, that's potentially the

worst way you can quit. I guess when you're when you're eighteen years old, it's not as big of a deal. It doesn't impact your career long term, probably doesn't matter as much, although I would say I think like stealing from the company, embezzling funds, that might be the worst. True. By the way I stole all this money, good luck tracing it because I've got Swiss bank account. It doesn't have as much flair though, as as like the flight attendant,

you know, with the with the two peers. That's still my favorite. But yeah, doing something like this, probably a stunt like this can potentially haunt you for years. In more of a career type environment, just not showing up, not giving a reasonable notice, you're just showing a lack

of respect for your coworkers and for your bosses. Again, so much of this is about not being a jerk, and so when it comes to just giving a notice, you know, it depends on your industry, or your employer, or even the specific role that you play at the company. While keeping all of those things in mind, you want to give the appropri at length of time as a heads up. Of course, two weeks. That's the standard length

of time that you'll read in any article. And I know that you can't always do this when quitting, but if you can actually offer more than two weeks, that can actually reflect really well on you. Obviously, if you've got a new position already lined up that you're transitioning to, that might become a basic impossibility because they're like, hey, you gotta start start on X day, and in that case, you're gonna have to get out of there, maybe sooner

than later. But those are the kind of gestures that go a really long way in keeping that network intact. We you know, we touched on this. We kind of keep coming back to relationships because it's such an important part of your career of working. For instance, it makes me think about helping to finish an important report, or like spending a week or even two weeks training your replacement.

These are the kind of things that will be remembered because you never know, like when that boss or when that coworker might reach back out with an even better offer in the future. But that only is going to happen if you do a good job departing. Yeah, I completely agree, and and stay in touch even with four or coworkers or former bosses, those can provide excellent opportunities

for you in the future too. Instead of treating those people merely as colleagues, treating them as friends who you stay in touch with can be helpful from a career perspective. And man, it just makes me think, Actually, I've got had multiple opportunities recently from old coworkers just because I stayed in touch and just because we remain friendly. Even just an old coworker who said, hey, do you need some baby clothes for your two and a half year old?

My boys four now, and like I'll drop them off on your porch. It's just even little stuff like that, Like that's a minor thing, that's small in the grand scheme of things. But maintaining those relationships, you never know where it's going to take you or what sort of opportunity might come your way because you're not only left on good terms, but you've remained friendly with those folks

and you stay in touch. So it's one of those things. Yeah, like Jordan Harbinger says, like dig the well before you're thirsty, will maintain those friendships even without expecting anything in return, but just knowing that it's the right thing to do, and who knows what the result of that could be. That's true, dude. It also makes me think how it might be more difficult for introverts to maintain this when relationships might be more taxing on them and like in

your energy. And so I guess what I'm saying is, if you're listening to this and you're thinking, yeah, easy for you to say Joel that, oh yeah, I'm gonna keep in touch with twenty five different people who I'm not gonna see anytimes, it is easier for me to say how it is. But but that being said, it's doesn't mean it's not any less important if you're listening

and you're an introvert. And so I think there are ways that you can approach this, maybe more systematically, even if it's just a calendar reminder or something where that reminds you to go back and just shoot a quick message, whether it be a text or an email to touch base with folks. I think that can be a way that you can keep in touch with some of these folks without it filling up your calendar and feeling like, you know, you have no time to yourself if you're

an introvert. And so, as we're talking about communication in particular with your employeer, hopefully your company has a policy in place where they solicit your feedback once you've decided to move on. And so it makes me think like there are there are two paths that you can take when it comes to leaving a previous employer. You can also,

on one hand, you can slam the door. You can stom out of there and a huff calling out everything wrong with a company with the leadership, with your direct supervisors, drinking two beers. You can even talk smack about Toby in ah hr Uh's the worst. Or you could potentially take the like more of the apathetic route right where you fail to address any of the issues that the company might be facing. You're being nice, but you avoid

any difficult conversations. We don't like either one of those routes. We think that honesty is it truly is the best policy. But there's also a way to be honest without pissing people off, right, Like without being a jerk. So much of this discussion today is about just not being a jerk. And so keep in mind that you're on his feedback that it could actually help your former employer as you head for the exit. But you know, remember that there's

a kind way to give that honest feedback. Yes, and that is a skill that's important to learn, right, It's that emotional intelligence, I guess is what that's called. Just avoid any statement that says you always do that. That should should be a red flag that what you're saying may not be true, you know, and avoid that in your personal relationships to and you're with your partner. Sorts of advice, how the money today? Right? And yeah, continuing

on the networking theme. Now, we've given a lot of advice in this episode, but I don't think there's any anything more important than maybe this one phrase, which is to not burn bridges. Yeah, that's basically what we're saying. But right now, I feel like it's so common to actually take the opposite attack. There are so many I quit on social media videos. It's a terrible trend that I talk seeing. We talked about quit talk. Yeah, people like,

here's why I quit. It's the worst. And they're throwing people under the bus on their way out the door. And you know, we started off by talking about networking, how important it is and how it can't be overstated. And you know, they say, it's not what you know, it's who you know. But I don't even think it's that. I don't even think it's who you know. I think it's who you have a good relationship with. Right And according to HubSpot, eighty five percent of jobs are found

through networking. And then CNBC actually reports that seventy percent of jobs never even get posted to some sort of job site, and and that means that they don't necessarily go This job isn't going to the best candidate out there. There aren't even multiple candidates in many of these scenarios. This job that was created for a specific person because of their abilities and because of their connections, and so

that's just so important. These numbers reflect the truth that your career is as powerful as your network is and

and how well maintained that network is. And you might find a job that's not even posted purely because of the people you know and who you have good friendships with and so when it comes to networking, like you've got to get to know I would say, a wide variety of other folks in your industry and build close relationships with the people that you work in close contact with if you want to shot at bigger opportunities in the future. It's like a personal marketing plan. Basically, it's

like outreach to those around you. Not only are you focusing on like the work that you're doing, but you're talking, You're you're kind of looking at the marketing. You're looking at the pr is the is your personal advertising to a certain expense, right, And sometimes you think, well, I'm gonna let my work speak for itself, And well, I get that sentiment. If I just you know, put my nose to the grindstone, if I put out excellent, excellent work,

people will notice it and I will go far. There's some truth to that, but you're missing a wider spectrum of what is also truth, and that is that the people that you know and the people you maintain good relationships with will want to work with you, will want to suggest you for future opportunities to other people that you don't even know, in large part because of the relationship they have with you, not just based on the work that you do. That's right, Let's let's talk about

geting paid to quit. This is one other thing that's important to mention when it comes to quitting your job. And this might sound weird, but you know, can you engineer your own layoff? The great thing about getting laid off here is that there are often meaningful perks involved. Uh. Namely, what we're talking about here is severance pay Sam Dogan, who writes that Financial Samurai. He has written in depth

about this topic. But there's often a way to create what's considered like a win win situation when you have to leave your employer. Sam says that people quit because they're too scared to negotiate. And I'm not totally sure if I agree with that, because it doesn't necessarily make sense in every situation. But if you can tell that your company is looking to downsize, or that by cutting payroll that that would make your boss look good, don't just quit. This is a way that you can negotiate

an exit that helps you both out. And it makes me think of a friend of our, jeninal Uh. And she was working for Delta for years and years and back, you know, things weren't looking so great for the airline that I don't remember. And by the end of Delta was able to get over eighteen thousand employees to voluntarily

retire early, essentially with early retirement packages with buy backs. Uh. And so I think from an employee standpoint, you think, oh, holy cow, I feel like I'm totally taking advantage of them. This almost seems too good to be true. I think in her pace, in her case, she was getting paid close to a year in order to to leave the company. But when you look at it from the point of view of the employer, this was a smart move for them. This was a way for them to stay solid, for

them to not file bankruptcy. And so in that case, this truly was a win win scenario. So keep that in mind if you are in a situation like this where your company might be experiencing some issues like if you offer to pay me for a year to leave, I will be devastated because how the money is my life? Matthew, don't do it, okay, but I just that's that's obviously not gonna happen. But I did actually negotiate a severance package.

Matt on my way out of the radio station a couple of years ago, and it was one of those things where, similarly to what you were saying, it was an industry in decline and they were letting people go, and so I volunteered myself. I volunteers tribute I do if if it saves somebody else, and you're gonna pay me to leave, like, I'm more than happy to do it.

And so that's how it went down. It was one of those things where it was the term you use was engineering your own layoff, and that's exactly exactly what I did. And and of course it was beneficial to me as I was making the transition here, but I think it was beneficial to other people at the radio station to It really was one of those win win scenarios. Maybe think about this as you're talking about how how the money is your life. Work is great, but it is not the end all the all whoa who had

the money is the end? I'll be all. I feel like we take a very healthy, uh nuanced approach when it comes to how it is that we view work. But over work like that is a real thing and it's not good. It's happening more often we talked about Scott Kay's a couple weeks ago about the lack of vacations that folks are taking that is not good. It makes me think of a piece that Derrick Thompson wrote

over in The Atlantic a few years ago. He talks about how work is morphing into something that looks more like religious identity for for most folks, as opposed to just a job. And the problem is that work, it can't satisfy all of our human longings, but it does feel like that we're expecting it to these days, right, Uh.

And So, like, I think one of the answers is perhaps to be a little more introspective, like takes some time and to think about why what it is, what it is that you get from your work, why it is that you're doing the things that you do. And I do think that a lot of folks did that over the past couple of years. I think that's what's led to the great resignation to the priorities exactly. There's been this sea change that we've seen within many people's careers. Uh.

And oftentimes that does lead to a new job. But what we don't want to see you do is to is to see a new job as just as a distraction. We don't want it to be this knee jerk reaction because in that case, you're not actually getting down to the root of the problem. You're just reflexively reacting to things, as opposed to being more introspective, really thinking about what

it is that you're trying to to seek after. Because if you just hot from one job to the next, like essentially you're just going to hop from your old crappy job to a new crappy job, exactly if you will eventually become your old crappy job yet again, yes, if you're not giving it enough thought, and then at some point too, by the third or fourth time you do that, it makes you less desirable on the job market.

If you're quitting jobs every five, six, eight, nine months, and you're doing it consistently in order to score more pay or something like that, and then you want to eventually get the job of your dreams, well, they might not be interested in hiring you if you've moved on too frequently, if you haven't shown any commitment to the employers where where you work, And so I think that's an important thing to note too. So really, when it comes down to it, quit well, don't leave money or

benefits on the table. Those are important things to do if you're planning on quitting, plan ahead, and it don't be a jerk in the whole process. Matt That's what you've said many times, and I think you're You're spot on. There is a way to quit poorly and publicize it all over the internet. There's a way to quit well and to do it with honor in a way that actually ends up boosting your career in the future. Do

it with honor. That sounds like something of Samurai would say. Right, honor, integrity, doing it the right way, treating people right on your way out, and and not throwing people on under the bus when you do. Just don't commit, Harry Carey and follow your own sword. Right. All right, Let's shift gears and get back to the beer that you and I enjoyed during this episode. This was Bumble Stick by Bermari Brewing. This is a brewery up in Asheville, North Carolina. We've

had a few of their beers before. But what were your thoughts on this nut brown ale with toasted cinnamon, Matthew, Yeah, so I would say it was heavy on the cinnamon. Maybe maybe even a bit too heavy, but I think it was. It had a lot almost maybe sneeze maybe one you're gonna but I did sneeze. I did that triple sneeze in the middle of the other. We we cut that out. You wouldn't You wouldn't hear that, right, See if you can listen back and figure out what

it is that I came back in with the fresh sneeze. Boys, nobody, nobody wants to hear that sneezy there years nobody wants that. But I I really like Brimri beers. I think they make some good stuff. This one was not my favorite because I thought it was a little too cinnamon heavy, and I really like cinnamon actually, but I like a good nut brown nail. It's one of those things. It's it's kind of a beer style that not many folks are producing, and I thought this was a decent take

on a beer variety that not enough people pay attention to. Yeah, the only other drink of that UH infrequently enjoy is horg Chatta, and it kind of reminds me of horchatas, you know, like where you're tasting that cinnamon with within a drink. Or maybe honestly, it kind of takes me back to so similar to horchata. I guess makes me think of slurping down the milk after you finish eating the cinnamon toast crunch. Yeah you know what I saw

the other day on the aisle in the grocer. I do not they have cinnamon toastcrunts in this by style like you get the flavor, yes, next to the pepper and stuff. Man, it's crazy. So basically cinnamon and sugar. Yes, so silly people just need to buy cinnamon and sugar. But whatever your own self. Nostalgia is a powerful drug, that's for sure. But I wanted to recommend just brown ales in general. If you're out there and you're thinking, man, what are these guys talking about with all their different

craft beers. I think brown ales are a great introduction into the craft beer world because they're very easy to drink, and specifically, if you find yourself enjoying coffee, maybe you like one sugar and a little bit of cream, really easy to drink. That's how I think about brown ailes.

They're not overly dark and espresso like in the way that you would find like a Russian Imperial stout, but they're also not overly kind of bitter and tanniny when it comes to like some of the different West Coast I p A s and all the different flavors that they introduced. It's just a very approachable beer. Can I say the most classic nut brown ale that out there is probably the Rogue sael nut brown, and that's probably

available in almost every stag. I was going to say the most classic brown and will generally speaking is new just Newcastle, Newcastle. That's I don't know if i'd consider that a craft beer. No, it's it's pretty large. Yeah, it's it's decent. But if you want something like good, a little more refined, but still like really really accessible, that that Rogue hazel nut brown is a great true and why we haven't really had any rogues should we? I don't know, we need we need to remedy that

here in a few weeks. Let's throw it out a bunch of rogues. But this beer you can find a picture of it on our website at how the money dot com within our show notes for this episode, and we will make sure to link to any of the different resources that we mentioned as well. Yeah, by the way, if you've been listening for a little while and you have not yet left or review for this show. We would appreciate it if you would do that really quickly.

If you listen on Apple Podcasts, you can leave a quick rating and review that helps other people find out more about the show. Same on Spotify that's where you listen. That's just a rating and that takes lesson too easy. Yeah, you can definitely do that first. Thank you in advance for your help with that, and Joe will write you a handwritten out For everyone who does I personalized. I will send you the cinnamon toast crunch spice in the mail for your contributions, the whole thing. But you can

sprinkle some on the letter. The letter I can't sprayed with perfume. I open it and starts sneezing immediately. Who wrote this? A seven year old? All right, that's gonna do it for this episode. Until next time. Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out.