Putting Money in its Proper Place #452

trying to stop my falsetto, my Tom York falsetto. But no, we are talking about money. Everything does have a correct place, and money in particular, we're gonna we're gonna put money in its proper place during this episode because it's one of those things ings. It's like one of these monsters that when you give it a little bit of free rein, once it starts roaming around unchecked, it can start to

take over your entire life. And you might think the guys that hosts the show How the Money think money takes the top spot. But no, indeed we do not. That's right, man. But before we get to our topic today, we need to share the winners of our one thou dollar giveaway. We announced this on the last Friday's episode that we wanted to give away a hundred dollars to ten different people to do some good within your communities.

And so that entry period is over, comments are closed, and here are the ten winners for that cash money giveaway. All right, Matt, I'll kick it off. Lindsay B. Goodwin, t c D Underscore, Techno, Kitten, It's probably my favorite of the name, row Neck Underscore, Savola, the Daisy Dot Life, and Empty Real Underscore, Fate. That's right, that's the first five. I got five more. We've got h a h Rubish Mary Ate, the Little Lamb that's actually my favorite, the

Unsetting Son Architect four four six for and Smoothie. So we will be reaching out to y'all via Instagram, but we wanted to announce the winners here on the show. Thank you all for participating, and thank you to everybody for participating, and generally speaking, I think this is shed a lot of lights on the different organizations UH in need who we can contribute to. Yeah, man, I think this is just so cool. I'm so excited that speaking of putting money in its proper place. You and I

get to put our money where our mouth is. We get to give away some of our own money. And you know, we've talked about the importance of giving in the past many times. That's a crucial aspect of making money and putting in its proper places giving it away. And I'm just I'm just super excited to see what these ten people do in their community with this money. And yeah, we'll report back because it's gonna be a lot of fun to see how much good that money does.

That's right, man, Let's go ahead and introduce the beer that we're gonna enjoy during this episode. Uh. This is a beer called Hazy uh like like jay Z, which you pointed out before we started recording. Uh, and this is by Tim blow Or Brewing Company. Thinks to Ryan and our friends there at the brewery for donating this one to the show, no doubt. All right, Matt. So now you just mentioned the beer that we're having and the episode we're talking about today is putting money in

its proper place. And you know what this made me think of just both those things combined. Uh. You've heard like the phrase that an apple a day keeps a doctor away, right. Well, for you know, the adult version of that, some people have said is a glass of wine. Okay, I thought I'm gonna say a craft beer a day. I wish. I don't think it's quite as healthy as

a glass of wine. But a lot of studies have been done, and you know, we don't actually have conclusive evidence about the long term effects of moderate drinking, but I would say it seems safe to say that a single glass of wine with dinner doesn't have negative long term effects, and it could be beneficial in providing antioccidents

as well as protecting against art disease. And the studies that I like to read the ones let's say just a little bit of this, it's it's actually good for you, basically a little bit of that confirmation bias, you know, in finding the studies to degree with the way I think. But of course, if that habit turns in to a bottle of wine a day, we're talking about potentially severe consequences for someone, right, So if a glass turns into a bottle, it all of a sudden becomes a really

big deal. And yeah, what what's good in moderation can become absolutely wretched if it gets overdone and the same we would say is true with money. Right, It's it's less about how much money you actually have, but it's more about how the role that money plays in your life. And that's what we want to talk about today. Yeah, this might be weird, but you know, we're actually attempting to de emphasize something that we talk talk about three days a week, every single week, because you know, like

we believe that money is a helpful tool. This makes me think of my father in law because he recently had a trip to the emergency room, had a little run in with a table saw. And that's not to say that now all table saws are bad, but the way he was using this all led to him having to go to the hospital. Uh. It comes down to using the right tool for the right job. Obviously making sure that we're careful with those tools. But we feel that money is a helpful tool, uh, and it's also

an essential one. But we also believe that beyond a certain point, more money isn't going to solve all of our problems, even though we might be tempted to think so. Really, money is only one component of our overall health and happiness levels. So for instance, Joel, you know you mentioned

that glass of wine. That might provide a small boost to your overall levels of health, But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't ride your bike more, or that maybe you should stop doing your push ups, uh, whatever you're doing to to try to stay healthy. Yeah, even if eating that apple or drinking that glass of wine is somewhat moderately helpful to your you know, to boosting your overall levels of health, you still got to do those

other things. Those are those are more important. Exactly getting your finances in order overall, that's an important part of a healthy life. We want to be a part of helping you make progress in that direction. That is our main focus. But we also want to talk about the limitations of money when it comes to your happiness. And with this episode coming out towards the end of the year, I don't know, it's kind of fun to swing the

other direction. When every single week we're talking about the importance of money, the importance of making wise financial decisions, there are also some of these other things that you need to keep in mind as well. Yeah, we want people to learn about the benefits of house hacking. We want to help people figure out how to invest you know, which accounts they should be investing in to get the maximum reward, to lower their taxes, and to build up

a strong net worth for their future. But at the same time, like, if that's all you're focused on, you're missing out. And especially this time a year, we're we're all of us, we're focusing on really important things like time together with the family, like time away from work. We're prioritizing different things, and so yeah, that's why we were like, we have to talk about all these other things.

And how you know, if we actually overpursue money, if we're overthinking it, then we're going to miss out on things that really matter. It's right, And it makes me think Matt of like athletes switching teams for a few million dollars more like, uh, someone who signs a two hundred and seventy million dollar contracts as opposed to take that hometown discount and playing ten years for two hundred

and fifty five million dollars instead. And I'm like, you know, both of those ums are mind boggling, and I can't really imagine making that much money for playing the game. But yeah, why why would you move? It makes me when I see that happen, I'm always like, why would that person move for a five percent pay bump when they're already making more money than they'll ever need than they'll ever be able to spend. And when I think about it, I think it all comes down to what

you're optimizing for. In this case, that person is optimizing for money. But maybe they haven't thought there long enough, or maybe they have. Maybe that's actually where they want to go play, they prefer to be in that state or whatever. But so many athletes you see make this move for money. They go to a losing team, or they opt out of a community where they were invested, and it leads to lower life satisfaction overall, right, other

negative consequences. And and really this doesn't just apply to you know, high dollar athletes. This can apply to anyone who's moving to a new state. Let's say their sole desire is to lower the amount they pay in taxes, and they say, I'm moving to Florida or I'm moving to Tennessee because they don't have a state income tax and you leave, right it is, I get it, But you leave all your friends and family behind, Uh, for that one decision to optimize money, it's probably going to

lead to less happiness in the long run. And so it's not that money should not be a factor in how you make decisions, but it also shouldn't be the sole deciding factor either, because there's a whole lot more to life and just money. Yeah, there's only so much that money can do for you. There are a lot of other things you need to take into account. And

you know, let's let's talk about COVID. Let's bring the pandemic into this for a second, because seventy of Americans say that the pandemic has affected their life in a meaningful way. Many folks lost a loved one, and that's

obviously a stunning impact. But even those of us who were fortunate enough to to not lose someone close to us, the pandemic acted in many ways as a force for change, um and much of that change has actually been good, you know, from from quitting a job that you that you don't like, maybe that you hate, to spending more

time with your family. The changes that COVID brought abouts are many and uh and for a lot of us it has provided additional happiness by just cutting out a lot of the fluff in our lives that we no longer need. COVID was pretty devastating to our lives, into our economy, but I feel like this is one really small silver lining is the fact that it already caused us to kind of re evaluate and to put certain

things like money, uh in its proper place. Yeah, we said this, maybe it was even a year ago, Matt, But like, if you haven't been able to find a silver lining from COVID, then maybe you haven't been looking hard enough. Because most of us, like my calendar got cleared in a big way. And you know, we've gone on more family hikes in the past eighteen months than we've ever taken before and done more. I guess I'm a hiker now because this is something we're doing. Yeah,

we've done more family picnics. Like, there have been all these things, these ways that we've adjusted our lives. And it's not that it hasn't been really hard in so many different ways. And I know that that each of us have had our own burdens during during COVID times, but yeah, there have been many silver linings at the same time. And yeah, well we're talking about putting money in its proper place and so much this comes down

to like meaning and what provides us meaning. And there was a Pew research study done just came out literally at the end of last month, and I thought some of like what that had to say was really helpful and informative for this episode. And it turns out family, friends, and occupation took the top three spots for providing meaning in most countries around the world when people were studied, when people were asked that question, material well being was

a close fourth. And so, of course, again it's not that money is not important. You read that and you're like, yeah, of course, like people, people want to be in a warm home, they want to be well fed, they want to have clothes on their back, and so it's not that that is not important. Um, But when you look at it in the context of the answers to these questions,

it still comes in fourth place. And I thought that said a lot, because, yeah, a lack of money it certainly creates quite a bit of difficulty for the person who doesn't have enough, right It's it's hard to get that meaningful time with your family if you're wondering where your next meal is going to come from you or if you're the person who's working sixty plus hours a

week in order to make ends meet. Same thing, right, And and let's say you're the person living with boatloads of debt or with very little or no financial margin. You're kind of living on that financial precipice. You are one of those people who, uh, you know the Federal Reserve says doesn't have four to cover an emergency. Well, it's gonna impact your mental health and potentially your physical

health to all leading to lower levels of happiness and meaning. So, yeah, money is not unimportant, but yeah, it's it's interesting to see when you look at the stats about what things provide the most meaning, money is fourth on the list really when it comes down to it, right, Yeah, So while money has an important role to play, it isn't everything. And so we're actually going to delve into some of the other facets of life that need to be considered.

And you know how an over emphasis on money can impact our overall levels of happiness and well will actually offer a litmus test later on in the episode as well for ensuring that money is playing a proper role in your life. We'll get to all of that right after this. All right, let's get back to it. Let's talk about money, putting it in its proper place. And yeah, if we elevate money above everything else, we're gonna be pretty tyrannical, awful, hard people. I think right, I was

waiting for you to sing your song after I did mine. No, I don't do that, my little number. I don't have the vocal talents that you have, so I'll refrain. No or do I everyone found out earlier. Well, yeah, let's talk about some of the most important facets of life where if we let money overtake these things in order of importance, we're all bound to lose in the end. And yeah, the first one that's worth talking about is physical health, because focusing too much on money can cause

you to neglect your physical health. And yeah, since physical health is in the top five in that Pew research study that that we just mentioned before the break, you want to make sure that you don't take that one for granted. Matt, I just recently read Ross douth It's new book about the years of hardship that he endured after contracting lime disease. He's a New York Times writer,

and it was just like one. He's a good writer, and to just kind of like a fascinating to get a peak under the hood of the trauma that he's

dealt with essentially in the last five years. Basically, he was a d percent healthy one day and then intense chronic pain came into his life and it didn't leave, and there was like no day that he wasn't ravaged by just feeling terrible and justin why disease seems like one of those things that's just terrible, Like, I hear more accounts of people who deal with that, and it's something oftentimes that they are dealing with for years. Yeah,

and we know so little about it. And that's one of the things he goes into in the book, how it's a mystery. Yeah, And there's all these kind of off the beaten path ways that people who have lime disease try to deal with it, and many of which

the medical establishment says frowned upon. There They're like, now, you shouldn't do that, and and they're kind of some oddball tactics that he ends up using in the book and really trying to come with his own cocktail to diagnose himself or to serve himself in order to hopefully feel a little bit better. Is this a book recommendation? It is? Yes, I would say, definitely read this book

if if you get a minute, because it's great. But what really I get from reading books like this, Stories like this provide me a new kind of thankfulness for my healthy body, right knowing that it's it's not something I'm going to have tomorrow. I'm not promised that tomorrow. Wake up and I feel great, Um, wake up tomorrow with a tick on your chest or potentially wherever they buy.

Actually they like to They like like to go to the dark, warm areas like your armpit or your crotch, back of your neck, I think to okay, yeah, behind the ear. Yeah, so yeah, I would say I would say this like one, know that you're not promised health

and so be thankful for it and too. If you find yourself working too much, not taking care of your body the way you should, it's time to reconsider how much effort you're pouring into money making, because if you're optimizing for money again, kind of like that professional athlete, maybe you're making the wrong ultimate decision and there are

other things that are worth optimizing for. Yeah. I think a lot of times folks might think, oh well, if I'm making a ton of money, well then I can afford the best doctors, and I can afford the best medicines. But doctors, they're not miracle workers. There are a lot of amazing drugs out there, but that doesn't necessarily guarantee that your health is going to be good, right just by getting a treatment, Like, you can't buy good health. Uh. And so that's one of the reasons that we're recommending

for you to pay attention to your physical health. Now, another end of the spectrum you might find yourself on is like, like you might be so cheap that you're unwilling to say, pay for that y m c A membership that would actually get you off the couch. They're just these different ways where in an attempt to be wise with our money, uh, as we're trying to be frugal,

we can find ourselves going down that cheap path. And the other thing to you to mention it like you don't actually need a gym membership in order to prioritize you know, working out, Like just get a bike, or you don't even need a bike because even that cost money. Just go for a run, get outside, move your body. But we do understand how you know, sometimes a little bit of skin in the game or finding a workout partner can make all the difference when it comes to

finding some motivation for you. But we still want to point out overall that your physical health can be something that you neglect in the pursuit of more money. Something Joel, that I feel like we've learned from our friend Carl Jensen.

This is something he's written about on his blog fift Days many times, which is that while he was grinding it out during his nine to five as a software developer, his physical health is something that he neglected, and he realized after he had reached financial independence that man, this is something I could have been doing all these things while I was still working. It didn't take me becoming financially independent in order to take care of myself. Yeah,

and like you said, it doesn't necessarily take money. But sometimes the prioritization of money, or the prioritization of saving more money prevents us from taking the action that we need to do to get healthy. And and I think when we take a step back, our physical health is of primary importance in our lives. It should be, and if we're not treating it like that, then it's it's something that we need to rethink um and and just hopefully this is a good reminder to say, all right, well,

how are you prioritizing that right now? And his money or your over prioritization of money maybe holding you back in the realm and in another place, Matt, another realm of our lives that we sometimes let suffer because we're thinking about money too much or we're over poritizing it is our mental health. And this might be a good chance to talk about hustle culture for a second. I'm not sure. I don't think it's quite as prevalent as

it was a few years ago. I know Gary Baynerchuck and some of his ILK com made it sound like if you work eighty hours a week, man, all your dreams are gonna come true. And I don't think that's true. But yeah, there was just this glamorizing of working until you pop into your bed exhausted, trying to pursue your passion and just like working as hard as you possibly physically can. Uh. But yeah, and that that is still

out there, that is still a thing. People are still drinking that kool aid, and it's not of course that you and I were not anti work. We think work is great, and we're all for working hard at something and and pursuing something that you love too, And in some seasons it makes sense to increase your hustle in

order to accomplish a specifical map. There were times where buying that next rental property meant I was going to work a little bit harder, and you know, going there after work to paint the interior walls was like a sacrifice of other things I could have been pursuing. I'm glad I did. But I say, NonStop hustle with no end insight can also take this massive toll on your mind and body, and so if there's no stop to it,

then you're going to experience some sort of burnout. So we'd say be careful not to fall into the trap of working more just because it's become a habit of hustling, because hustling is supposed to be cool, And we'd say, like, let yourself take a break. Yeah, And I believe that so much of that mental health comes down to the levels of stress that we experience, which dude, I believe is greatly impacted by who it is that is calling

the shots as to how hard it is that you're working. Right, So imagine, like, on one hand, you've got your boss, and your boss is the one making you work, you know, sixty seventy eight hours a week. That's going to feel a certain way if your goals aren't aligned necessarily with

your bosses. But if it's you calling the shots, right, Like, if it's like you said, like there are stages of life sometimes that we're in in certain goals that we want to achieve, And dude, it is a complete shift when it is you, like when you are at the wheel and when you can make those decisions and so so I guess the takeaway here is that if you are in a situation like that where you're not the one calling the shots, then looking elsewhere, like the Great Resignation,

This has been happening after COVID because a lot of folks have been able to reprioritize, they have been able to maybe put money in its proper place. Uh. And if that's you, you know, looking for a different position might be in the cards. Yeah, And I think it's worth rethinking some of the goals maybe that you have and whether the sacrifice that's going to take to get there is worth it, and sometimes it is and sometimes

it isn't. And let's say your goal is to work in the C suite someday or have this corner office and have like an upper management level position, and maybe you're realizing that if you're gonna do it at the job that you're currently at, it's going to require some of those really lengthy work weeks and you're gonna miss out on some other important things, including being healthy mentally and and so yeah, if it's gonna require all of these things from your time away from family, maybe not

attending your kids sporting events, along with just your own mental sanity, you might have to like requestion some of those priorities that you that you had. That's right. Yeah, even if this is a goal that you had, uh, and it's not your bosses, even if it's yours, you might find that your mental health might be suffering because

of it. And so, you know, we feel that it might be helpful for you to ask yourself a question like, like what kind of mental state am I in after having hustled my butt off for the last year, Because you know, working more doesn't necessarily make us more efficient for instance, scientists have tried for years to see if we can still remain productive while sleeping less than the typical eight hours a day, but they've consistently found that humans need between seven and nine hours of sleep and

night in order to function their best. And so you know, you'll probably find that in an effort to produce more, you sleep less, But then the opposite effect starts to take place. You might be spending more hours at the office or or on your laptop working, but you're not getting as much done. You're continually exhausted. Uh, and your work is going to suffer. Uh, and so will your life. That's right. Yeah, trying to put in too many hours often just leads to like it's like every hour additionally

that you put in past whatever your maximum is. Like, let's says for what the average person is working, there's a law of diminishing returns, and every additional hour you're less effective. And so it's worth kind of thinking through that. I think a large part of mental health to Matt is intellectual satisfaction. Right, Like, there's this stat recently, uh, and they said that forty percent of people who rarely read or write experience faster cognitive decline in old age,

and so there's just something magical about being curious. And I think that the more we read and write, the more we're expressing our curiosities. Were writing is essentially like writing, putting down your thoughts on paper, and it's causing us most of the time to think through what we actually think or believe. And when we're reading, we're curious about other people's ideas, what they've gone through, their life experience, and so I think those are really healthy mechanisms for

us just to be well rounded people. There's a quote from Albert Einstein. He once said, I have no special talents. I'm only passionately curious. And I think maybe that was a little bit, uh too much humility from Albert night Stein, because he definitely had special talents, but he was also just in sanely curious, and curiosity is good for our brains. Uh In. Money is cool, but the world is so much bigger and more fascinating than more dollar bills in

your bank account. And so if you're not being exposed to interesting ideas, cool thinkers, fascinating people, then you're just pulling in more dollars. Then I don't think it's a recipe for a lifewell lived or for like great mental health. Yeah. So regardless if you're satisfying that intellectual curiosity with your work, or maybe that's something that you're pursuing outside of work in your free time, we would say that you need to strive to make room, uh for that intellectual curiosity

component of your life. Um So, let's talk about social health, because if we're working too much in order to get ahead, we might not just be compromising our mental health, our physical health, but we might be compromising our closest relationships. Because you know, if you're too busy to spend time with your friends and your family, well, that's going to cause strained relationships. Let's going to lead to less overall happiness. One study found that seeing a close friend most days

is like getting a one thousand dollar raise. Seriously, this is a this is the result that they were able to measure. It's another working with your best friend. I guess I was gonna say, like I would take the hundred thousand dollars to set your mouth. You don't even mean that, uh No, Seriously, there's just so much more

to life than just making more money. And another study of three hundred thousand participants found that a lack of strong relationships lead to a fifty percent increase in premature death from not from anything specific, but just any kind of disease, which is pretty mind boggling as well. Yeah, that connectivity is is such a crucial part of our

overall health. Yeah. And and here's the thing too, It's not just these individual relationships that we need, but you need to make sure that you're finding ways to connect meaningfully within a community. And so whether that's like a religious community or just like a community of nerdy board gamers, having a defined attachment to a group of like minded folks that gathers together physically is important to have proper social health. Uh. And you know, we do believe that

this applies to introverts as well. If you are out there your list and you know that you're an introvert, this is something like literally that you could be as systematic and as intentional about as just putting an event on the calendar. This is something that I've actually done myself because I in particular over the pandemic, I found myself like I would see you every day here while we're while we were working, which is worth at least

a hunder grand here. But there's there's a lot of folks in my life who I wasn't seeing anymore, and I felt that I could feel the effects of that. And so literally every Tuesday evening on my calendar it says Matt's social and there's a question mark, and there's a little spot there for somebody else's name that I put in there because I have to be that intentional about making sure that I'm including other people within my life.

And I never make that cut because you've seen me every day and we hang out outside the podcasts all the time. But yeah, no, I think that those studies were kind of just super interesting to me, Matt, that that's how important human relationship is to us, and some of some of it can't be quantified in this study. It's kind of unexplainable just how important, how necessary, you know, real human interaction, close human f chip loving relationships are

for us as people. But yeah, if you're focusing too much on money, it can lead to that strange social life for potentially like an almost non existent one, like if all of your best friends are work friends. I mean, we're kind of an anomaly here where literally we are each other's work friends and also best friends. But we

started off as best friends. But like, if you find yourself losing connection to some of those other close friends you've had over the years because you're spending too much time at the office, that could be a sign that money isn't in its proper place for you. And on the flip side, if you're unwilling maybe to say for a plane ticket to make it home for family Christmas because you want to max out your four one K in order to retire a year sooner, Gotta finish, gotta

finish out this projects. Is counting on me, Gotta get to reach financial independence by the time I'm forty, or it was all worthless. Well, you're you're probably overly focused on money too, so we would say, yeah, be careful not to put relationships on the back burner as you're simultaneously getting your finances in shape. Is the pursuit of financial independence a bad idea? No, of course not. We are fully We are fully in support of you doing

everything you can in that endeavor. But if you're sacrificing some of the most important things along the way, and some of the most important people in your life along the way, if you're losing time out with them regularly because money has is dominating, it's taking the number one spot, we would say, you've got to reconsider, you gotta shake

things up. Yeah, And something we mentioned too is that like the actual physical gathering of people is really important, which is really interesting because like compared to like a digital gathering, right, Like, this is something you and I have we've talked more about recently as the metaverse has kind of come onto line as we're seeing like digital real estate sales booming, and this is something that we've talked about because we believe that if folks are counting

on that space, which is obviously purely digital, to replace and to satisfy some of these needs that we have, I think we are in for a world of hurt because I mean we've already seen with like social media, the negative impacts specifically on gen Z. But when we look to these different forms of what we call social interactions and relationship, uh, when instead what we truly need are in person interactions where we can see someone face to face, there's just a robustness and a richness that

has lost um with these digital communities. I think we have to keep in mind how dependent we can be on these different spaces, because we want them to complement our actual you know, in real life life, and to make sure that they don't completely replace our day to day interactions with people. You might think about how to money Facebook group, for instance, and is that a digital group that's worth being in, And we would say yes, we think it is because people are helping each other out.

Like it. It's a friendly group of people who have a lot of knowledge who can help you make good decisions with your money. But at the same time, like, should that replace your friend group? Probably not, like it's insufficient to do that, right and and not probably not, like definitely not. It really should not come anywhere near replacing what what you have in real life with other people.

But some of your best friends might not have some of that robust knowledge that the online community can offer. So it's to dip in there and get that knowledge and participate. But it doesn't mean that's the end all, be all and that's all you need, right and and Matt, let's let's move on. Let's talk about on another area where if we over prioritize money, we we can get it wrong. And that's when it comes to our spiritual health, and yes, we're going there. And since we're you've done

one how to money music selection? Can you do like a Grigoryian chance right now? Just hammer this home? Don't have it in me? Okay, all right, Sorry, that's no worries. But there's a quote, another quote we're gonna throw in here. Blaze Pascal once said that all of humanity's problems stem from a person's inability to sit quietly in a room alone. And Matt as a extrovert, this one hits me hard because extrovert. Yeah, I'm like, sitting alone in a room

does sound like my form of torture. Like I had friends that went to a silent retreat over the past year, and I was like, what you paid to do that? Because you'd have to pay me. Whereas I hear that, I'm like, oh that sounds relaxing. Yeah, I feel like that would be really helpful. Right. So there's obviously like a somewhat of a personal crisis I have to deal with as I as I kind of figure this on out. But yeah, I feel like speaking of crisis is there's there is a sort of like a crisis of meaning

in our country right now. And and and maybe I'm wrong on this, but it feels like the world of constant virtual connection we were just kind of like talking about, uh, we often lacks that ability for meaningful connection and it's zapping our brains. Like we're all tired, we're all mentally depleted, and we feel less connected and actually more angry at the end of many of those virtual connections. We're constantly striving for connection, but we're missing it because we're looking

in the wrong places that can't actually provide it. And so yeah, I think there's some truth to that. Being able to sit quietly alone, like with your thoughts with a book, um, that's that they're reading and writing component is so important, that curiosity, but also just that ability to if we're talking about spiritual health, not have to always be entertained, and they're often costs that go alongside of that, monetary costs actually hurting our ability to be

spiritually healthy as people. And we're not explicitly here to tell you to go to church or you know, or that you should start a daily meditation practice us, although you know both of those things could be helpful for you. But spirituality seems to be either just non existent or

it is just increasingly vague these days. Uh. And so we'd encourage you to not neglect these deeper spiritual aspects of life, these deeper questions, because you know, like science and reason are great, but they don't feel the meaning uh void you know that we all have within us. I think even just simply getting outside of nature is just one of the best ways to reset and remember that this world, you know, this cosmos that we are in,

are far bigger than we are. Uh. And that can provide healthful orientation when we start to focus too much on something as temporary as money. We just when when our world becomes so narrow and focused that we think our life is this little mole hill that we fixated on, and it provides the necessary realization that money is not

the answer to every problem we face. I mean, one of the ways that prioritizing your spiritual health, or prioritizing religion, how that could have a direct impact on our money is that within a lot of different walks of faith, your all to give your money away, and oftentimes specifically that's called the tithe And that's something that our family does.

But not only by doing that, not only are you not working more to gain more money, but you're being actively called to give that money away to you know, to be parted with that money. So I love that is a kind of a natural reminder that is built into a lot of different walks of faith that you should have, you know, take a more open hand approach when it comes to your money as something that we're given, uh and that we should oftentimes freely give back as well. Yeah, man,

I agree. I think not only is like giving our money away in that way good for our soul, it's like good for the way we view money and the role that money plays in our lives, and it just like prevents an extreme attachment that becomes unhealthy. And so yeah, I agree. I think that the spiritual side, the physical side, the mental side of our money are all really important.

But we have like this litmus test that that you and I created that we want people It's three questions we want people to ask themselves that can help you know whether money is having an outsized influence in your life. Will get to the HTM litmus test right after this.

All right, we're back, Joel. Let's get to that how the money litmus test that you mentioned we're hoping that these are gonna be some helpful filters for you to decide whether you're too focused on money, whether you're neglecting maybe some other important aspects of your life or not. So the first of these, the first question to ask yourself is does you're spending align with your values. It's

as simple as that. Because if you're you know, Scrooge mcducking it, and you're only amassing your wealth with the crippling fear of ever spending any of it, you might be too focused on your money, like you make me think of you might be a redneck if my check Jeff Foxx realthly, I feel like this is like you might be too obsessed with money. If if you can't spend anything, if you're Scrooge mcducing it, because you know, like we we do think that growing your net worth

is a great goal to have. But like, like if you're a personal capital net worth tracker, if that's something that you're obsessed with, if that's something that you check, you know, multiple times a day, you check it in the morning, at noon, right before you go to bed, you've probably gone too far. And so it's crucial to ask yourself if you're spending aligns with your values, because

you know, like Joe, like we're both pretty frugal. But over the years, I've had to learn this lesson and to try to like loosen my grip on my wallet on the things that I'm willing to spend money on. By asking that question, it has informed our budget. It has allowed me to just to feel a little more

comfortable spending money instead of just squirreling it away. That's one of the reasons I think that budgeting your money is such an important tool because it's you deciding ahead of time that you know what this is something I've decided is important. I'm going to attach a dollar amount to it, knowing that down the road I'm not going to feel that way, Like They're gonna be times when I'm gonna think, you know what, Instead, I could just save that. I can put that towards retirement. I could

funnel that money towards something else. But it's it's almost like a way to keep yourself in check with the things that you say that you actually do value. Yeah, my new and I we could drink more Miller High Life and less of the good stuff, and we could put more aside for the future. But at some point there's like diminishing returns for that too, right, and we have to prioritize. That's why we drink a good beer on every episode. One. We like drinking good beer and like.

But the other thing is, I think it is a reminder for us that this is something we actually do care about. We're putting our money where our mouth is when it comes to our spending. And I agree, Matt, like, at times I have not done that, and I'm less happy because of it if I'm not putting my money where my mouth is. Like, Wow, we're saving the investing

well for the future. On the other side of that spectrum, though, you might find that you spend money too easily, your spendthrift, and you might even forget where your money is going, opting to buy things like spur of the moment, you know, while you're showing Instagram or just hopping on Amazon to see what's new, and you quickly forget that you even bought that thing. It's in the back of your closets. Well, you know. Consumption per capita has actually grown sixty since

the nineteen eighties. In the United States. The average garment Matt, I saw this stat is only worn seven times before, and I've talked about this on the show before. Many of the shirts that I wear have actually probably been worn a hundred times before I bought them because I get them to the through store. But yeah, I think what this means is that our unconscious spending is leading

to waste. Is where we're spending money, not where our values lie, but we're spending it will annilily without thinking of it. And so yeah, one of the solutions to lavish consumption as a result of overcorrecting UM is gifting that money to other people, right, which leads us to our next question. That's where this next little question comes in, which is do you give your money away? If you have a really hard time or even in an ability to part with any of your money, you likely don't

have money in its proper place. Going back to maxing out your four oh ok, if that is preventing you from giving, you are likely to obsessed. Instead, if you work to prioritize giving, you'll find real benefit in doing so. Again, that's a big part of why we did this cash money giveaway. We wanted to be generous. Plus it's you know it sounded like a lot of fun to help our listeners make an impact right there where they live. I think sometimes giving like just like a jump start

to something. It may not be a habit that you've already been implementing, but by doing it once you can kind of get that ball rolling. Yeah, And I feel like, especially during the pandemic amount, I've heard a lot of people talking about self care, and it's it's not that there aren't times where you need to like check out from the world and care for yourself and do something

that's replenishing for your own like heart and soul. Um. I think that's true, but it's it's but caring for others seems to be from everything I've read, better for everyone involved, including you as the individual. And so, yeah, people report when you look at studies, being more fulfilled when they help others, And so we wanted to note that if you're hot a money listener who's mired in credit card debt or student loan debt, we realize it can be difficult to be a giver when you're working

your way out of like a financially difficult situation. If you've got like dollars worth of credit card debt on the books. Then I realized you're probably you might not be in the position or or you might not be ready to give away ten percent of your income. But you can start small. You don't have to go big or go home. You can do just a little bits.

And so yeah, we would say it's important to find ways to be a giver, even if you can only offer just your time right now, Like if that's all you have to offer because your your money is so tight, we would say, do that, uh, and and and then have the goal to monetarily support like an organization that you care about. As you continue to make your own personal progress towards financial freedom. Your time can go a long way, and honestly, much of the time it's more

important and more meaningful than just writing a check. Yeah, that's right. You know, monetarily giving giving some cash is really important. But we don't feel that that absolves you of personal responsibility when it comes to how it is that we live our lives. Still important to love your neighbor and care for them, and that to reach out to those in need in your direct vicinity totally. So our third question that we want you to ask yourself is can you let loose and have fun on our

litmus test. I just wanted to stress this the how the money litmus tests, but moving money from the equation altogether, Like, do you know how to enjoy yourself? Because if you are only focused on accomplishments, you know, achieving the next goal that you have in mind in order to maybe earn more money and move up the corporate ladder, you

might be neglecting pursuits that you enjoy. And so just think to yourself a little bit right here, ask yourself if you ever allow yourself to do anything just purely for fun. The term play is just something that you know, as responsible adults and parents like that we feel is only for kids, but in reality it needs to be something that we start incorporating into our own lives as

responsible adults. Oftentimes we can focus just too much on the numbers when there need to be some of these uh, you know, unmeasurable these intangible things that we need to incorporate more into our life. An example, I'm thinking of Patagonia. They let their workers go surfing whenever the waves are a really good. Patagonia founder Van He wrote this manifesto called let My People go surfing, which is super cool.

But employees are allowed out and even encouraged to drop everything when there's a great set of ways coming in. They also get a delightful Christmas break this year. You probably don't work at Pattygonia. Chances are if you're listening to this might be applying right now, speaking seriously, but there's probably very few folks who are employed by that company. Chances aren't high that you work for someone who shares

that philosophy. But we feel that this is something worth working towards within our personal lives, you know, giving ourselves the permission to let loose and enjoy the day. All right, So again that how the money litmus test. Those three questions are, does you're spending a line with your values? Do you give money away? And can you let loose and have fun? And I think those are three really helpful questions to kind of pinpoint where's money? Like what

what what influences it have in my life? Because is it? Is it overly influential? Do I need to take to let it take a backseat so that I can enjoy the things that provide real meaning and joy in my life? Am I neglecting spiritual habit or you know, my physical body because I'm so obsessed with financial independence by a certain date or just acquiring more and more. And so hopefully that limits test point you in the right direction and gives you gives you some thoughts about where you

should be heading next. And at the end of the day, man, I think I had had like one more question that I want people to wrestle with, and it is what's the job of money? And I think for some people, the way they think of it, or maybe because they haven't thought about it enough, they think it's like to snowball it into as big of a pilot as humanly possible. That is, that is one way to go right, to acquire as much as that that idea of like the person with the most toys at the end of the day,

where the end of their life wins. Well, I mean that's not I would say that that's not what money is for. But that is something that you can do with money. And I think oftentimes people aren't asking themselves the question what is money for? They're just looking at what is it able to do? Oh, I've heard about compound interest, I've heard about investing, So I am going to do that with my money without giving much thought to what it is actually for at the end of

the day. Yeah, but you and I we would say we think that a much better way of thinking about money is how is it helping you achieve success and happiness in across a variety of areas of your life, like, not just one area, right, And yeah, so that's what we've been talking about in this episode. Is having more money actually making you more of a slave, a slave to your work, a slave to your desk? Or is it causing you to work more than you want, becoming

less healthy and hurting your relationships. Or is it giving you more freedom, bringing you more happiness, bring more fun into your week, ultimately saving money. It doesn't have to be just about giving you freedom for the last twenty to thirty years of your life. I've always kind of been turned off by that idea that that that's what you're saving money for. I think it's it's for so

many more reasons than that. It can be about creating more options for you in here and now, allowing you to take more risks because you've got money in the bank allowing you to do so. Maybe it's extended time off when a baby is born. Maybe it's travel for three months at a time with your family when before you can only uh financially afford to do one week. Or you never could think about quitting your job and starting your own business, but now you can because you've

saved money. It's allowing you not to just acquire more and more, but it's allowing you to do the things that are the most eul. That's right. Money as a tool. It's a means to an end. It is not the end in and of itself. It's a good perspective to keep when it comes to your money. Joel, the shift gears me. Let's get back to the beer that you and I enjoyed during this episode. This one was another one by Timbalore Brewing Company, and this one was hazy. You want to say it. I don't have any ja

z lyrics to spit out right now. I wish I did hazy, But oh yeah, what were your thoughts on this one? Okay? So I will say the other thing that they can reminded me of. It kind of has that say by the Bell art. Look, I don't know if you remember, which I used to watch literally every day when I got home from school. I feel that a little bit. It was like my favorite show for a long time. I will say this beer not my

favorite beer. It's not as good as Say By the Bell was as a show, but it's very good and it's definitely it's got that classic New England hazy vibes going on. And so yeah, big thanks to Ryan for

sending this one our way. I'll never turn down the I p A. I don't know what else you're looking for, Like, I feel like it has all the characteristics of a New England Hazy, right, So it's kind of got those floral, fruity notes, it's kind of got that dry hot nature that I typically attribute to like a blue cheese note

that oftentimes that dry hot hazies can can have. But overall, if this is a style of beer that you haven't had, if you haven't had a Newland Hazy before you're out there in California, we would recommend that you check out Tymbole or brewing look up Hazy. This is a good representation of this style of beer. And I wasn't trying to hate. I was just saying, like, when you think I'm very nostalgic for Say By the Bell and those

days coming home. It's an incredibly high standard. Yes, so you're not into like the what what the college college years or the college days. They like did a whole reboot, and I think I was, did you? But it's been a while, it's been a while. While you were watching that, I was at home watching mcgeiver, like the original mcguiver, because I loved watching that show. Totally sounds like your jam way less Saved by the Bell. I feel like

it's a perfect snapshot of you and me. You were there watching uh folks be social on TV, and I was watching this dude all my m stylf figure out how to you know, transform a clothesline pin into something that he can you know, parachute from a building from. That's you and me. That's best friends in a nutshell, isn't it all right? Well, that's gonna do it for this episode. Again, big thanks to Ryan for sending this

beer our way. And yeah for our listeners who want to see that litmus test written out, who want the show notes for this episode, you can find those on our website at how to money dot com. That's right, So that's gonna be it for this episode. Until next time, Best Friends out, best friends out,