Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt, and today we're talking about preparing for a layoff title wave.
Yeah, and maybe we're being hyperbolic here when we say tidle wave, but really we chose title wave because I know that you like title waves. Joel, do you talk You mentioned still how I want to die. Yeah, yeah, you mentioned how that is how you want to go, except for the last time. Well I pointed out the fact that then I would drown there are really tidal ways, or you mentioned tsunamis, and I'm like, dude, tsunamis are
just kind of like the gradual. We're not gradual, but it's a quickly raising of water off if there's is caused by the earthquake, giant title wave. I don't want to die by driving thinking of it slams me to the ground, and that's how I go. That's what I want. You wouldn't get coop slammed. Yes, it's hundred percent. You
don't want that, dude, that's terrible. No, no, no, You're you're thinking of what was it Interstellar which space movie and the landing on the planet and they're looking for the mountains and there were not mountains that like that that whole scene and they're just like thousands of feet tall. That scene kind of blew my mind. But that's what you're thinking of, that's the way to go. No, we are going to talk about preparing for potentially getting laid off.
There's a lot that's happening in our current labor market. There have been some rumblings, and we're going to get to those and uh, specifically the steps that you need to take both with your career but also with your finances to make sure that you are ready to weather that storm. Yeah, when it does arrive.
For sure. Okay, quick question for you before we get to that. The other day, so Selma, my nine year old, she we talk about money here and there and kind of trying to help her understanding as she grows up, spending, saving, even starting to talk about investing too. But the other day, randomly at breakfast, she was like, so, how much money do we have?
Dad?
Like overall, not like how much is in your wallet or but like like what is your network? She was asking She didn't have that terminology, but that's basically what she was asking me, and I was to give her a number. Yeah, I would have been hesitant took toy didn't but okay, I'm curious that you didn't do it. How would you respond to that question.
I would not have given it either. So I don't see there being much good coming from a kid and knowing how much money you got in the bank. Okay, so I think I would be funny about it. I'd be like, oh, we got ten million dollars in the bank, which by the way, is not anywhere near accurate.
Sound that sounds right from what I've seen.
But no, I think, like, honestly, I question like that. Maybe it's born out of curiosity, but I think oftentimes, like kids are talking at school and maybe there's like this dumb competition and kid they're trying to like one up each other, and I don't see that leading to
anywhere good necessarily. And we've talked about how leaving a fortune to your kids and how like more and more I'm thinking that that is not something I want to do because of the sense of entitlements and the ability, the potential ability for that to keep your kids from like becoming their own person and like going out and making something taking risks that whole thing. I feel like it could stemy their personal growth, is what I'm saying.
I don't remember who I was talking to, but I was talking to someone the other day and we were discussing how the best time for a parent to give their kids money is in their thirties, like mid thirties in particular, when they're having kids, buying a house, all that kind of stuff, and by then, hopefully they're solidified in their career and kind of in their their look.
E think they're the kind of person they're going to be, and so it's not some sort of massive endowment or bequeathments of like millions of dollars down the road when that person is fifties sixties, it really helps them in a time where that money is most useful.
But it's basically like some down payment money for that house, that first house. Yeah, see that being pretty helpful.
But it's also staving off entitlement, right like where if you give it to too early, maybe they miss out on some of that. But yeah, you're right, No.
That's what I'm thinking of it. And even just knowing that that money is there, I think could potentially keep kids from really going out there doing something awesome with it.
So I think the key is, like you said, like kind of to be coy about it and not reveal a whole lot of information, like, hey, we have enough, We've got a roof over our head. That was the kind of the discussion that we like, you don't think you shouldn't have to worry you, you don't need to worry about anything.
Totally, we were doing great.
But at the same time, like, I don't want her to think that we've got you know, millions in the bank to even though we have billions.
Right exactly, Well, no, I totally agree. I think it is important to make sure that they understand that they're cared for, that they are being provided for specifically right and so not only in the time and the intention that we give them, but also the amounting the amount of money that that we have on hand, providing that stability. I think that's definitely a very important thing to communicate.
Good question, so exactly, you know, I love that she asked it, and I don't want to shame her shut her down with ye which, like it provides another chance to have a conversation, even if I'm not giving her the direct answer.
That she's hoping for.
So all those little money combos with your kids matter and involving them more in those money decisions. I don't know, maybe we should do a whole other episode soon about how we talk to kids about money. It's been a minute, yeah, but Matt, let's mention the beer that we're having on this episode. This one is called Absolute Brightness. It's Biology Brewing out of Tampa. Big thanks to Jamie and her husband for sending us a couple beers. We appreciate it.
That's right. Looking forward to sharing our thoughts on this one at the end of the episode. I kind of I dig the label. It's super basic, but it reminds me of a Tycho album cover. You ever listen to Taiko, Not really but electronic ambient artist, But it's got that vibe for sure. Yeah. And it's like a digital analog look going on, which, yeah, it kind of summarizes my style perhaps. Yeah.
Well, and if you follow us on Instagram at how to Money Pod, you can you can see all of our beer cans, label labels, all the stuff we're drinking, amongst other things. We've been creating a lot more content on Instagram, by the way, it's not just beer cans. Yeah, it's actual money content. There's actually some yeah that can helpup full infographics up there as well, instead of following people taking fake pictures on private jets, and you can
follow us for actual money saving info there. But let's get onto the subject of handmat. We're talking about preparing for a potential layoff, and I was just talking about Selma and it actually prepared for this episode made me think about how each of the kids I have, they're all unique, and I think you have it in your mind that you're going to be able to have a
big impact over how they turn out. And I don't want to say that you don't have any impact over how they turn out, but it's amazing how each kid comes with its own their own distinct personality built in kind of baked in the genes from the get go, and they just have like certain hardwired predilections right that
we can't quite override. And so even though Emily and I were trying to be intentional about what we're teaching them, it doesn't mean that we can mold them in a way that's kind of antithetical to that nature that they're born with, and that nature versus nurture debate is endlessen It's hard to know exactly how much can be chalked up to either one of those things. But even given kind of their their disposition, when they you know, kind of come on the scene, we still have the ability
to mold them in some ways, in important ways. And so there's a lot that I want my kids to know before they fly the coop, before they head out on their own. I want to prepare them for a variety of circumstances that they might face. And even if that process is vastly different than like updating a software package, right, it's it takes so much more intentionality and effort. Only it was that easy, I know, right, kind of like Neo and the Matrix and you upload something new and then they just like.
Boom, they get it. You're talking back, What do you just get over here? Let me plug you in, press a couple of buttons and fix you up. I mean, those lessons like my input Emily and ized input, It's still it still matters. And so yet the same thing is true. I would say, when someone loses a job, it's hard to know when or if it's coming, but
we still have the ability to prepare. There's like kind of this element that's out of our control, this element that's in our control, and we want to talk about the element that's in our control today. That's right. Yeah, And we have a limited timeframe, right, Like we have this window where we do have that input. This actually, it kind of reminds me of my favorite parenting adage, which is to prepare the kid, or prepare the child for the road. Don't prepare the road for the child.
And we don't know exactly like deep sun, you like that?
Yeah?
Have you have you heard that before? Oh? Really, it's like, I don't know where it came from. It's not like an individual. I think it comes from like culture specifically. The thing is like, we don't know exactly the types of different crazy things that our kids are going to encounter in the world. But the time to equip them is now. And the truth is that layoffs are happening, and the time to prepare for that tidal wave, the potential tidal wave is now. The FED rate hikes they
have continued to create more tightness in the economy. The labor market. It's been pretty resilient for a long time, honestly, but that booming job market might be coming to an end. Maybe not abruptly, but it might kind of fizzle out a little bit, you know, like these all time unemployment lows. They can't continue forever basically, but that could potentially lead to you being without a job. The R word recession, like that's being thrown around again as well. So will
it won't it? Is it gonna be a soft landing? Who actually knows?
I don't think you can actually say the R word matter. It's kind of like Valdimore. You're not supposed to say it all the way out. That's your contrary.
It's funny. It's funny that you mentioned that because literally that's we are at that part in book seven. So longtime listeners will know. We've been reading through all seven books out loud with the kids, and they just discovered that taboo of saying his name in the seventh book and where it's times from. Well, no, like in the earlier books, they don't like saying his name, but in book seven, literally if you say it, it it lets
the death leaders know where he is. Such a slight spoiler if you read the book, doesn't ruin anything, so you'll get there. But you know, even if the economy as a whole. Even if it doesn't tank anytime soon, there is always the possibility that your company or even your specific department, that they could be looking to cut back. And so we're gonna offer our thoughts on what it looks like to prepare now making yourself not necessarily lay off proof, but kind of like like layoff resistant, right.
I like that makes me think of like waterproof versus water resistant. It's like two different terming out, Like if you have to watch it's waterproof, it's like IP six rated or whatever. You can die like its way down deep and it's going to be fine, right, But if you have one of the water resistance and you try to like scuba die with it, a thing's going.
To be It's like, no, you're broke. As a joke, you're only good for your thirty minutes at three feet.
Yes, sorry right, well yeah, and so it's important to note that yet this isn't going to lay off proof your abil, but it is going to make you more less likely to be the first person on the chopping block. But it's also going to make it so if you do get laid off, hopefully the things we talk about in this episode, so you're more prepared to handle it. And I don't know, maybe there are some jobs that are actually layoff proof Matt, like tenured professors in combat
congress people. Those are people that I think, but there aren't many jobs like that that there's very almost no potential for you to lose your job. But let's talk about which industries are most at risk right now. This can act like an additional heads up for some folks. And so according to think tank the Conference Board, IT jobs, transportation and warehousing, and construction are the sectors most at
risk of layoffs right now. And beyond that, the tech sector has already been slashing its workforce in a big way, and there might be even more to comme It looks like there's there's even been more recent movements in the tech sector to eliminate jobs. So yeah, if you if you're in one of these arenas, you should probably be even more aware of the possibility of a layoff coming down the pike.
Specifically in IT and technology right like didn't Meta call twenty twenty three the Year of Efficiency made investors happy because they had been taking on so many new employees massive losses. Yeah, so after you know, like it was basically like a post pandemic hiring boom, where like there were a lot of folks who apparently were on the payroll without actually having to, you know, anything to do, and like, these are folks and they admitted to that.
Well, some of them were crazy posting videos about here's what I do when I get to work. I get my latte, but not really actually doing anywhere. We've got like a place you can a massage or like, And I was, what are these what are the people at Twitter doing all day? And no wonder it can survive with so many less employees, That's right.
Yeah, So all of these different tech companies with way too much money, they're finally cutting back. Google they recently cut twelve thousand jobs. Amazon they're laying off twenty seven thousand numbers of their team. Ten thousand folks are being laid off from Microsoft and Boeing and those are some hard numbers. But then like Ernst and Young Accenture, Disney they just announced that there are going to be massive
layoffs coming here soon as well. How to money, they're even laying off a couple guys, just one of THO hosts. I'm not sure what you shoot one of us has to outrund the other one. Hopefully hunger games, we'll get to keep our jobs. But essentially the question here is, are these tech companies the canary and the coal mine? Right? Are they the cutting are they the leading edge of
more job losses that are likely going to come? Well it's hard to say, but again, a record low three and a half percent unemployment rate, it is not likely going to last forever. That's why we want to make sure that you are thinking ahead to this.
Now, well, let's talk too about the ever changing reality of what layoffs look like, Matt, because the way they're being conducted has changed massively, really just in the past three years. And oh yeah, virtual layoffs happening more and more. Those twelve thousand Google jobs, for instance, those folks found out via an email, which like just didn't really happen ten years ago, and some of those people had worked at Google for decades. Can you imagine how demoralizing that
would be to be somewhere for twenty years? You can you wake up to an email and you're like, oh, I guess I'm out of a job.
Like that sucks. That sucks. That shows a last one thing if you'd just been hired like six months ago, Like maybe I get it, but I don't know.
Yeah, shows a lack of appreciation for the people who have helped you get where you are. Sure, it's just not cool, and it's especially in Google's case, it might be a little evil, which is kind of what their whole thing is against their own mantra. It used to be their mantra, used to be the slow So yeah, they've changed it now. It's understandably, so it's okay to be a little evil, Yeah, because it sounds like they
are going down that path. But layoffs are just happening in a more impersonal way, which kind of makes sense given the work from home environment that we're in. When you're hired remotely, you're gonna be fired remotely, Like no one's gonna hop a plane show up at your door
and tell you that you're losing your job. It can I think you can feel like it's adding insult to injury, which can make it more of an emotional experience than it already would be though, And so dealing with the aftermath of a layoff when you're also kind of emotionally reeling can be can be a really difficult thing to do.
Yeah, And then like, I don't want to be a doomsayer here, but we're not even talking about what AI or like the large language models might do to the tech industry right when it comes like programmers, Like why would you hire ten programmers when you can just get the code you need in the blink of an eye.
Perhaps, Well, and there's just a whole lot of predictions about what AI is going to do to work moving forward.
Ye, a whole lot of yes, I swear. So, even aside from the tech sector, this is something that I think a lot a lot of us, even you and I should be there should be something that we are thinking about.
Sure. Yeah, it makes me think of a great quote I saw from Alison Schreger recently, former guest of the show. She was specifically talking about kind of the impact of AI on the workforce moving forward, and I thought this was what I thought, this was brilliant. She said, if the past is an indication of the future, big new technology, she tends to come for the mediocre first, so it's critical to add some human element and be good at it. She said, I anticipate that in person skills will be
super valuable. And so well knowing how to think, and so I yeah, if you want to beat what AI has coming for us, and it's coming, I think being better at what we do is going to be of massive importance as we try to stave off AI coming for our stuff.
But simultaneously, this is where I feel like we might be getting a little like we might be jumping the gun a little bit, because folks were also saying that about like when the lockdowns were happening during the pandemic, Basically everyone was saying that, like we're never going to be hanging out in person again, like all offices are shut down, virtual learning, virtual doctors. In fact, is we're
all going to move to the metaverse and Facebook. They double down on that, didn't they, And that's actually that hasn't been the case. So yeah, it'll be interesting to see what actually appans own.
I will say Allison was not dooming gloom in that newsletter she sent out, and a lot of it she was saying, we adapt as humans, and I think this is actually going to be for the best positive. I think she's right on that too. But I do think that the better we are at our jobs, the more it's going to help us when we try to avoid getting laid off, especially when AI can maybe do something cheaper and better.
Yeah, and regarding the you know, you kind of touched on this, but regarding the like the virtual layoffs, I don't think it's the fact that they're virtual that I have a problem with. It's the fact that they're letting like hundreds and even like thousands of people go like at the same time on the same call. Like, that's the part of it that feels inhumane as opposed to
the virtual. Because what you said I think is true, which is if you're hired virtually, I think it's okay that you're fired virtually because it doesn't make sense necessarily for you to be called into the office that you've never been to before and they're going to take all of this time and you have to find a suit or at least some khakis or something in order to
be presentable and around other employees. But it's it's less that, and it's it is it is more the mass aspect of it, right, Like it makes me think of food, like farming or like if you are a homesteader and you're raising chickens or a cow or or something like that it's okay to humanely slaughter an animal, like that's
how we go about eating meat. But there's a big difference between that and like what Upston Sinclair wrote about in the Jungle, Yes, right, with like the meat industry and some of these mass layoffs, it feels more like that, yes, versus the humane kind way of going about raising animals exactly.
And if you can get hired remotely, you're gonna get you're gonna get let go remotely. I think it just makes sense. But you're right, there's a human way to do it, and then there's like a really crummy way
to do it. And hopefully I feel like we a lot of these employers who have handled it poorly are getting written up in kind of major publications about their firing processes, and they deserve to kind of get raked over the coals to a certain degree, and hopefully it puts other people on notice before they start applied to that company in the future. Like wait a second, maybe they don't treat their employees all that well, so but real quickly. Matt also wanted to mention this talking about
layoffs and the impact that I can have. I have personal experience with this and not from me getting lad on, for from when my dad got laid off when I was a kid, and it was just such a tough time for our family. And I think there are ways that by pre planning, thinking about it with some foresight, it could have made that landing a whole lot softer. But instead it was really difficult, and it felt like it had a reverberating impact for years and even decades.
So I think like a layoff can be one of those things that just shocks your family to the core. And I don't want that to be the case. For anybody out there who's listening. I want you to do the proper prep so that you are ready should the worst case scenario happen. Like layoffs, they're never fun, but if you're in a solid financial position, it can feel more like a blip in your career than even something catastrophic.
Like I was mentioning, but we're jumping ahead. We're going to talk about steps you can take to prevent getting laid off. We want to talk about that, and then later we're also going to talk about what you need to do if you're in the middle of getting laid off. We'll give our thoughts on all that stuff.
Right after this, all right, we are back and man, you know we've just talked about why thinking through layoffs, why that should be something that is on your radar. Now let's talk about career steps to take prior to a layoff. And hopefully you are still gainfully employed, and if so, it is now time to make some hay while that sun is shining, and a part of making that hay is becoming more valuable to your current employer.
By the way, can you not make hay when the sun is not around?
Is that the thing not according to the old braide I standing, Or actually it's not about making hay while the sun still shining, because that assumes that at some point the sun's gonna go down, which obviously it does in life. But what we're saying is, le let's find a way to keep that sun in the sky. If you're wanting to stay at your current employer so that you can continue making hay that day, you want it to be like we're running with that metaphor a little too little to be.
Like Norway in the summer when the sun never goes down.
That's right, Yeah, this could help you to avoid unemployment altogether. And so by making yourself more valuable, what that means is just stepping up. It means taking on new roles at work. We essentially want you to be indispensable. Basically, we want you to be the person that your boss can't live without. And honestly, if you really like your job, the best role might be the one that you already have.
And so it's not about finding greener pastures. It's about staying put and maintaining those relationships and maintaining that career path. And again we sort of mentioned this before, but you can't guarantee that you're going to be invincible by becoming more valuable. But you can make yourself way more layoff resistant.
Yes, yes you can. And for virtual workers, by the way, this might be harder to do again because of the new work environment and so many more people working from home coming in less or hybrid work. Even it can be the case that you're out of sight, out of mind, and that is not the place you want to be in because that makes you easier to chop right. And so if you're never in the office, it might be
a good idea to get in there more. If you're doing video conferencing regularly with other people that you work with, in particular people that are higher up, hop on the call a little early. I think it shows intentionality and it's a good way to get FaceTime with bosses and management.
Makes me think of our conversation with Alex about negotiation, Matt and she said, Alex Carter, Yeah, she called it the meeting before the meeting, and that you can have a meaningful impact on how other people perceive and view you and view your work just by being more present in those spaces.
That's true. Yeah, just the ability to get on there and joke around a little bit, as opposed to getting on right when the meeting starts, where folks are immediately getting down to business. Yeah. And a part of making yourself more valuable is acquiring new skills, because you know, employers are going to be less likely to let an employee EGO who just went through a series of expensive training right because well, one like it's it's likely cost
them some money. So you can essentially use the sunt cost fallacy to your advantage here. But two, like forget what your employer you know, just pay like forget the past, Like you are literally becoming more valuable.
To them them and on the open market, if you know, for everybody.
Yeah yeah, but I mean just moving forward and looking to the future, you're likely going to cause your employer to be more profitable, and so they're going to want to keep you on. You know, if this is something that your employer offers, if they offer career advancement perks, take advantage while you've still got access to those perks. And this is I think the right attitude to take.
Even if your employer isn't looking to fire folks, the ability to become more valuable, perhaps a vie for a new position they're at your company, to potentially get a raise. These are all the kind of steps that we want you taken regardless.
Yeah yeah, And so think about somebody doing the barista thing at Starbucks, Matt, and they have access to a completely free education at Arizona State University online, doesn't matter where you live in the country, and you could just kind of say, eh, that sounds like a nice perk, but I'm not going to take advantage. Or you can make yourself more valuable to Starbucks by getting that education.
But at the same time, while they're putting the bill, if for some reason Starbucks says it's a layoff time, and you are one of those people that gets asked, well, all of a sudden, you're more valuable too to anybody else out there, any other employer, because you've taken advantage of that perk. It was free, and you gained yourself a whole lot more in skills and knowledge. That just
makes you more valuable. It beefs up your resume. And so that's the next thing that people need to think about when they're trying to prepare themselves in advance for a potential layoff, is to get their resume in order. Do it before the layoff happens. The same thing with
your LinkedIn. Start beefing that up. Start making some changes and improvements and updating things before you get into a situation where you are scrambling because now you're out of a job and you're trying to fix all these things on the fly. And so why wait until you need a job to get those things up to stuff a couple of evenings working hard and maybe starting to post weekly little things on LinkedIn, becoming kind of an influencer
of sorts in your space. Right, I don't mean influencer in the way that you're buying Gucci handbags and talking about them or whatever. But like you can up your visability, that's your business. If that's your business, that's fine. Like if you are like a fashion fashionista fashion like on that's cool. But upping your visibility to people who are in your realm, in your sphere can help you out in a big way. And so The Wall Street Journal recently had an article about whether a resume passes the
six second test is what they called it. Yeah, they basically said, that's how long you have to make an impression, and so don't be dull. Use bullet points to highlight the absolute must knows about you. Single spacing your resume is going to get it tossed in the trash can along with a bunch of others. Make it spicy and interesting.
I'm not talking in like George Santo's esque, lying about what you've accomplished, but I am saying, present the most interesting information first in a very readable formatted way.
I found it a nonprofit that saves dogs or whatever.
It's so many lives, so many lives.
A liar. And they also mentioned too leaving out the professional summary, like the introductory paragraph two versus just like getting down to the facts finding ways to defy your achievements as opposed to more flowery language that describes all your different skill sets. But yes, definitely you want to get your resume in order. After that, you want to make sure that your network is solid as well. Friend of the show Jordan Harbinger, he says, to dig the
well before you're thirsty. That's the best way to think about your how you should be approaching your network.
By the way, I love that quote because think about when you're thirsty or when you're angry or something. All right, Like the things that you will do to score some food or to score some water are vastly different than when you're not thirsty, and so true. It just changes your whole approach to it. You're likely to do better work and you're likely to be a less frantic.
So yeah, it just makes sense to change the dynamic. Yeah, before the catastroh hit. We love it. Yeah, So what that means is just reaching out to folks in your network who could help you in case of a work emergency before you're in one. That is incredibly important. Just simply connecting with other folks who you respect who are doing some really cool stuff, send an email, offer a compliment, because you never know the impact of just something really
small like that. Again with Alex Carter with her recently, so I think a lot of what she said is fresh on her minds. But in that conversation she talked about how she knows not just names and what people do, but birthdays. She knows kids' names of different folks in her network. She's not just friendly and amicable, She's found a way to make these folks friends. And I think, especially for a lot of folks who might be introverted, you might be thinking, dude, there's no way I'm going
to do this. This is like so smarmy. Yes, but this is why we're saying to do this now before you are in need, because what feels more desperate, what feels grosser just reaching out to a bunch of randoms when you truly are in need, or just reaching out to them and being friendly. We're truly you are just reaching out to connect. Who knows you really might end up being friends with these folks, but you don't know because you haven't even given it a shot. Like we
want you to be adventurous. It makes me. Think about like foods. If you never try a different food, well, how do you know you don't like it? You got to give it a shot. And so I think the same thing can be true when it comes to how it is that you approach your network. I think you're right.
And I think a lot of people void networking because they think it is this smarmy, slick political style interaction that they have to have or they're trying to get something from somebody else. I think the exact opposite true is true. You can be genuine, you can be authentic, and you can just connect with people who are doing cool stuff, who you like and respect. It doesn't have to be and there don't have to be ulterior motives, and that is what makes networking so great and so powerful.
Especially on the front end. Yes, exactly, you're in need.
Exactly, and so you're building that network over time hoping that you don't ever have to tap it in need, but it will be there for you then if you're in need, because you have built something based on mutual respect and admiration.
Totally all right.
So those are some of the career steps that you need to take to prepare yourself for a potential layoff. Well, let's talk about some of the financial moves too, Matt, because obviously how to money, we got to talk about the specifically money side of things as well, and I think following through on some of the suggestions we just talked about will likely impact people's career even if they never get laid off.
By the way, like, yeah, just generally speaking, these are good things. These are good practices.
Yeah, yeah, it doesn't hurt to kind of do all those things even if you never get laid off. It's kind of like buying life insurance. You're like, ah, but I didn't die. What a waste of money, And it's like, well, no, these are all good moves. These are actually going to pay off more than that life insurance policy if you don't croak. But let's talk about some of those general financial steps that folks can take, and the first one is to make sure you have a fully funded emergency
fund on hand. We talk about the very first money gear we discussed is having twenty four hundred and sixty seven dollars in the bank, which is a good first step to strive for if you're not there yet. But then we want people to actually have more money than that on hand, because that means less stress if paychecks
stop coming. So if you're worried that a layoff could be in your near term future, it might make sense to dial back on retirement savings, even to beef up the amounts that you have in liquid savings in just a high yield savings account. And also one of the things I think that this does that's so powerful is if you do get laid off, the more money you have on hand, the more months of living expenses that you can fund. It means the more picky you can
be about potential jobs that you might take. And I think some people when they get laid off, they're so itchy to get the next job and they take maybe an offer that's below them or they could have held out for something better, but they just didn't have the financial backing to make that a possibility.
That's right. You have more cash in the bank means that gives you a leg up when it comes to negotiating some of the benefits that you might be able to score with that new employer.
And some people really even it alters their whole career because they didn't have enough money and they.
Had inflection point where things kind of went south after that.
I've known friends that that happened to, and it's just like, if they had had three months worth of expenses on hand and they could little bit more, whether that storm a little bit longer, they wouldn't have taken that first job that came along.
Yeah, So a friend of mine, he actually recently was laid off, and he actually was lucky, and he did have six months worth of living expenses on hand. But even after he got a new job, even after he had an awesome offer, I was talking to him about it, and he said, you know, I kind of wish that I would have had even more padding. He said that he wishes he would have even had closer to twelve
months worth of living expenses on hand. And so I think it is important to know your personal appetite for risk, essentially, because different folks are going to find themselves at different ends of what a fully funded emergency fund is. But I found that really interesting that even after he kind of came out through the other side. You would think that you would quickly forget that, right, Like you'd be like, oh, yeah, it was fine. I always knew it was going to
be fine. But he was just like, you know, that kind of it put us in an uncomfortable position, and I think he's probably going to air more on having closer to that nine to twelve months as opposed to that three to six side of fully funded emergency fund makes sense to me. Yeah, And so the next basic general financial move that we want folks to make is to create a bare bones budget. This is a topic that we dedicated an entire episode too, back in episode
three sixty two. But this is just an awesome exercise in prioritizing your needs and cutting your once out of the equation. Because having a plan now for how it is that you're going to slash your budget in the event of a layoff, that can help you to see how that savings might be able to stretch even further. And then just having it already created means that you can just flip the switch, right, You can just hop on over to that new, much trimmer budget and in
a moment's notice. And I think this is kind of going back to what we were just saying, this is an easy way to transform six months worth of living expenses to twelve months, yes, right, like it effectively, even though like the dollar amount hasn't changed. Well, if you change how much how much money you're hemorrhaging every single month, well, it effectively does turn that into a twelve months worth of living expensive.
Yeah, And trying to create that bare bones budget when you're emotionally in an emotional upheaval after being let go, that's tough. But having the plan created beforehand and then just implementing is so different than trying to figure it out on the fly when you're in the midst of
like a financial fiasco, where you might even overcorrect. Yes, like if you're feeling the weight of that layoff more emotionally, you might say it takes some like crazy the drastic cuts that might be a little near sighted to the top.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. All right.
So another general financial move for folks who at least own a home is to open a helock, a home equity line of credit. And this isn't something we want you to use necessarily, right, but if you've got to put food on the table, it's probably better to take money from the helock than to charge things up on your credit card. Especially with what's happened with credit card interest rates, right, you're likely not going to be able to get that helock though, if you don't have a job,
So this is again a preventative measure. This is something you can't do after the fact. You can usually open one at a credit union with no closing costs, and it's this financial release valve that can provide peace of mind for you in case of emergency. It's kind of like one of those break glass in case of emergency scenarios, like you want access to it, you want access, you want to be there. The fire is thing, we sure, but you'll break the glass until the fire is actually happening.
And that's what a helock can be for a lot of people. I think if you're a homeowner having a helock, there's very little downside as long as you can prevent yourself from tapping it until it's absolutely necessary.
Yeah. Kind of makes me think of like air bags in a car, because when you and I talked about this, because you know recently when you got rear ended, I was like, wait a minute, did the air bags not deploy when yall cause y'all got hit pretty hard, But because I guess you're a hit from behind, the air bags didn't deploy.
But I'll stay to round us that that hard from the front.
Oh yeah, they throw it sure would have deployed, but I was thinking through that because I thought that they would have. Typically that adds a lot more expense to repairing a vehicle because it kind of destroys your interior, right like the like the dashboard, the steering wheel. It's just it's like exploded to shreds in order for that airbag to get out, and not to mention like you know, newer cards got like the side curtained airbags, So there are a lot of parts that have to be replaced.
And of course if you were in a head on collision, you are so glad that you've got that there, but you're not looking for those airbags to go off just willy nilly while you're driving around. It's not something that
you're voluntarily looking to do. But we also want to recommend for folks to consider diversifying their income as well, and is not advice for everyone actually, because like you, depending on your situation, you might find yourself overwhelmed with a day job, one that requires maybe quite a bit of time and effort. As well as maybe you've got a big family, maybe you've got a lot of kids, but if you're worried that your job might not be
long for this world. Other streams of income, even if they're quite a bit smaller, right, but even still, they can provide at least some additional income. It can provide a little more cushion if a layoff hits your family.
Yeah, and those things aren't created overnight. This is another thing where you've got to be intentional on the front end to kind of create that other stream of income. Starting a side hustle or a side business, even if it's stay small though, can give you something to pour your energy into, maybe becoming your full time thing eventually if you do get laid off. I like that as like an outlet to pour some of your effort into. Maybe you could ramp it up really quickly if you
lose your job. And investment property, by the way, like if you're so inclined, can have a similar sort of impact bolstering your personal finances having money still coming in even though you don't have the paycheck. And so when you do this, you're making a conscious choice not to put all of your eggs in that W two income basket, which I think is really smart.
That's true. Yeah, So as we have said all of these different steps that we want you to at least consider, if not take simultaneously. This is gonna be difficult to do, but at the same time, we don't want you to get distracted from the golden goose that's currently laying the eggs. Right, Like, there's a chance that you may not get laid off.
But if all of your additional and all of your creative energy, if it's going towards figuring out where you're gonna land, if layoffs do start coming down the pike, then that could actually make you less attractive as an employee and more likely that you're gonna get fired. So just keep that in mind. Right, You got to kind of find that balance, because if you're using company time and assets to find the next gig when instead you should be serving the company, well that's not going to bode Well.
Yeah, your boss comes in the room while you're working on your resume, that never is good. They're like, oh, oh, they're looking for other stuff, and you're like, no, I'm just trying to prepare because the things all look so hot around here.
Now you need to do that on your own time. Are like, well, we weren't planning firing you. But no, you've just kind of risen to the top exactly. Yes, But Joel, right after the break, we're going to get to some final things that we want folks to consider, specifically if they find themselves in the middle of getting laid off. We'll get to those right after this.
All right, Matt, we are back. We were talking a lot about how to prepare for a potential layoff. Now let's talk about what happens when the ish hit the fan, right, So, like, when you actually do get laid off, there's a whole lot of things happening that you need to consider and that you need to some things, some steps you need to take in the middle of an uncomfortable situation, and
hopefully your employer handles it well. Hopefully they're not the kind of folks sending just a crummy mass email to like thousands of people at one time, or putting you on some sort of mass zoom call. But those which actually makes you think that the layoffs, the way they went down in office space, they don't seem so bad in retrospect, right, Like.
It seems quite kind and humane. Yes, even what folks are dealing with them, Yeah, even.
Those guns for hire coming in like somebody you've never seen before. Well, at least it's interpersonal and it's one on one. But however it shakes out. Even while you might find yourself in a hyper emotional state, which makes sense, like it's never fun and it's disorienting to get laid off, to lose your job, you still need to make sure that you maintain your professionalism. So here is a thing. I think a lot of people, in the heat of
the moment, they act poorly. They burn bridges, And at the end of the day, if you're let go, handling it in a cordial manner and maintaining a dialogue with your direct supervisor and your employer is really really important. You never know that your immediate boss might be flying the coop too. They might be getting let go as well, but they might have a landing pad somewhere else and they're like you know what, Sue or Jim like, man, they handled that so well. They've been a great employee
for a long time. I'm gonna take them with me. I want to see if there's a spot for them too.
Yeah, but if you how many.
Suits form out in a bunch of curse words, sort of thing, like you might ruin that opportunity you said.
I was gonna make fun of you for saying Sue. How many sus do you actually know? Boy name Sue? I know a boy name Sue. Okay, if you're gonna say Jim, you should say Pam. Yeah. Probably. Yeah.
Well even if you feel slighted though, I think and no, it's true, which is true, Like it's hard not to feel slighted, not to feel like you don't want me anymore? Like what's wrong with you being a jerk? Isn't going to help you or your future prospects. And it makes me think of Matt. We had a friend who during the pandemic, like Delta, big employer here in Atlanta, they eliminated a lot of positions and a lot of people.
I think it was that was hard, But they brought a lot of those people back when the air travel resurgens happened. But my guess is they didn't reach out to some folks, But the folks that had handled it really well and who had been good employees for a long time, they probably reached back out with some pretty
sweet offers. So those are the kind of things that happen in business, and the more you kind of are emotional reactionary and casting throwing stones at your employee or your boss, the worst it's gonna shake out for you when it comes to getting a reference in the future. We're getting another job offer, that's right.
So severance, that's the that's the next item on the docket, because months of pay without having to actually work, that's probably the biggest thing that you're gonna want to pay attention to next. And it is definitely worth trying to negotiate more than the initial offer, especially if you feel that the amount that they're that they're giving you is paltry.
For instance, if they're offering one week of pay salary per year that you've worked there versus two, that would make a massive stinking difference were you to push back a little bit. Ingranted, oftentimes you're not necessarily in a super strong position of you know, to negotiate. But again, going back to Alex Carter, she talked about the ability to negotiate severance on the front and.
So but eat on the back end. It's a question you could ask. You can always always ask, hey, industry standards, two weeks, why are you guys only offering one and can how can we how can we make this severance more palatable to both of us?
Yeah, we don't want that to be something that you agree to right away, Like, don't sign right away. Take the time, think through it, and buy yourself a little bit of additional time to ask for better terms. You can also negotiate some other things in this process too, right, like perhaps getting paid for some vacation days that you haven't taken. Leave no stone unturned. You're now ex employer. They might you know, maybe they might even be able to help you to find a new job if they
happen to know that. Like, hey, look, this is a difficult position that we are finding ourselves in the industry wide. Though things are looking good, let's make an introductory phone call with you and so and so at this neighboringcome That.
Kind of stuff can be massive, right, and yet oftentimes in our emotional state, we don't do some of those steps that could potentially help us. Land the next thing totally. Healthcare is another thing that you can potentially negotiate your company. They might be willing to put the bill for Cobra coverage for a full six months or something like that. Like at least ensuring that if you've got an ongoing health condition you're taking care of, you can go see
your doctor. That could be a big thing. Cobra is very expensive to the tune. Depending on family size and all that kind of stuff, it could be a couple grand a month or more. And so that's one of those things that you might be able to negotiate when you're talking severance with your employer on the way out and Matt, we actually talked about proactively starting a severance conversation negotiating your own layoff with Sam from Financial Samurai
back in episode five thirty five. I actually used some of his techniques back in the day when I was ready to leave a job and I saw the writing on the wall they were trying to let people go.
I said, hey, I'm going to raise my hand. You might want to let me go, and I was able to negotiate a severance kind of proactively get laid off, which sounds weird, but that is that is something that I think if you are in the financial position and you really want to pursue something else, you might be able to take advantage of an industry wide layoff or something like that. And volunteer yourself as tribute in a way to get something like a six month severance.
Pay and gotten a s Everden style.
Yeah, exactly, And I think that that can for some people who really are ready to make a transition, who have their financial ducts in a row, that can be another strategy that happens if layoff, a layoff tidal wave does really come about.
Yeah, you can negotiate a longer period that you have that money flowing in. But yeah, you get to essentially play the part of the hero a little bit where it's a win win. It works out for you because maybe you're looking to move on to something more exciting, or maybe you're tech, maybe you're even like financially independent and you're just looking to man, I've been looking for a reason to just get out of here. Yeah, it
could work out for everybody. But maybe you are laid off, make sure that you file for unemployment because the longer that you wait to file for this, the longer it's going to take for that first unemployment check to hit your account. And if you've got a bunch of expenses that you got to pay without a whole lot of margin, you're going to be in a tough spot, so don't delay on this one. Go ahead, gather the necessary paperwork file for unemployment on your state's Department of Labor website.
And by the way, this we want to make sure that folks are thinking about this correctly, because I feel like we are very much. We tend to walk the line of independence and self reliance. But this isn't a handout. This is basically insurance that you've been paying into four years. It's literally called unemployment insurance. And so don't feel bad about taking it. Yeah, some people have a m when
it comes to employed and there shouldn't be. There shouldn't because you are funding it in large part you and your employer m H. At the same time, take that money because that is insurance that you have contributed to, So don't feel bad about it. Also, now is the time now to not just have made that bare bones budget, but to implement it. If you are like right, when you go through a layoff, this is the time to
shift and to say this is my new budget. And so unemployment and severance they can be burned through really quickly in order to stretch that money and the savings you currently have. The money you have on hand and like liquid, cut back on expenses until you're able to secure another job. That's where the BBB comes in. You implement it in case of an emergency. That's why you made it in the first place. That's right, man, And as folks are in the middle of this turmoil, we
want you to not get down about things. We want you instead, we want you to think think outside the box because this layoff, this might be the best thing that's ever happened to you from a career standpoint. Instead, we want you to think through like what new opportunities could actually come knocking because you now have the ability to take on something else and specifically having meaningful financial margin that helps to be able to have a brighter outlook as well. But this is why we love the
idea of folks having multiple streams of income. We touched on this earlier as well, But even just having a super small side hustle that can mean a continued flow of some money coming in after a layoff, and it can give you the ability to pour more hours into that solopreneur business to see if it, you know, could
potentially sprout wings and fly off. While you are simultaneously weighing some some other job offers, and so it's yeah, it can be easy to kind of take the woe as me stance, but instead we want you to you know, this is where just thinking a little bit more optimistically we think is going to pay off.
And I think it's true. Man, a lot of people too. They also they see a layoff as a judgment on themselves as an individual human or as a as a worker. It's not always is a referendum on how good you are at your job or how decent of a human being you are, and usually it's not. Usually it's more of a function, like a macroeconomic function that influences a lot of people on a micro level.
Right, And so there's ten thousand people that bowing yeah.
Or all those people like it's it's the year of efficiency that's going on. It's not about like, hey, you suck at your job, and so don't take it that way. If you and I get it's hard to dissociate those two things. But we have to in order to, I think, to be able to retain our confidence and our abilities as we try to move forward in our careers post layoff. And if you do get laid off, on that note, Matt, start looking for work quickly. That's what we would that's
what we would encourage. Don't take eight weeks off and then start looking or whatever. Like h I get the kind of the desire. Take a few days, right, sure, but not eight weeks. You want to You want to process things and be in a healthy mental local state. Yeah, and you might feel a little manic if you start job hunting that very evening or something like that. But now is the time to utilize the network that you've successfully built to help you as well. That's what it's
there for. And so I think the ways to do this, by the way, or to simply let folks out there in your network know that you're looking for a job. Remain upbeat and positive. Talk about your former employer in a good light, because if you don't, think it reflects more on you than it does on your employer.
But make it.
Create a post on LinkedIn and talk about how you're sad that all those years this wonderful employer have come to an end. That kind of puts the notice out. Hey, guess what, I'm a free agent. And you can also email some specific people in your network directly. Don't do it in some sort of a bulk email address people as individuals, but I think sending notes and message asking for advice and telling people thank you, not asking for
jobs specifically, but that just again puts it on the radar. Hey, I'm a free agent, I'm open for work, and I think that is what gets the network going to kind of like advocate on your behalf, or to send you job offerings or yeah, to maybe even bring you in for an interview if you know somebody who's in that kind of position.
Totally yeah. And you said to not necessarily ask for a job. I think there's a difference between stating clearly what it is you're looking for versus begging for a job, which is maybe I think maybe what you're getting at, because I think it's okay to state clearly the kind of position that you're looking for, the type of role, the type of company, as opposed to just being like, hey,
what's going on? Have got anything for me? Because if you're just hanging out on LinkedIn all of a sudden and not clearly stating, I guess what it is that you're looking for, I don't. I guess what I'm thinking of is like maybe folks who are later in their careers, I don't think folks would necessarily assume that you're looking for a new job, because, in particular, if you've handled
your money well, you literally could be financially independent. And folks might think that, well, maybe he's looking for a position, but I don't know, he hasn't really stated clearly what he's looking for. So I think it is important to communicate in an effective way. Whereas maybe if somebody who's in their twenties or thirties, it's like, Okay, yeah, they're
probably looking for another position. But for those who are maybe a little more mature and aged, Joel, those folks might be actually looking to step out of the workforce all together. Well, I think either way, you need to try to be sensitive to our older sure, and as I'm now a man in his forties, I hear you.
Well, I think either way, you want to make sure that your network knows that you're on the hunt, that you're looking. And that is where like public posting about it makes sense because you never know who's going to come through in the clutch or who's going to see that and say, oh, I didn't realize that Pam or Jim was available now that they were no longer deployment. Man, they did such a great job. Man, I didn't they'd
be such an asset to our company. But if you don't post it and they don't know it, then they can't link you up to that opportunity that exists, and so you do have to make it public knowledge. While at the same time I'm begging for work, right, that's true. Yes, I will say too.
My buddy who was recently laid off, but then Landa did a great job, a great gig. One of the things he mentioned he was that he was shocked at how supportive and how great all his previous coworkers and colleagues not coworkers I guess at the current company he was at, but just folks who he had worked with in the past were when it came to, hey, let me make an introductory email. Oh let me get you lined up with this company over here.
And Matt to kind of wrap things up, we talked about earlier water proof versus water resistance, and the layoffs.
Same thing.
We want people to be layoff resistant. It's becoming layoff proof is basically impossible even for folks who like yeh us who run our own business. But I think it's important to make yourself as layoff resistant as possible, as financially resilient should a layoff come down the pike as possible. And I think for some people it really could be
the best thing that ever happened to them. I know multiple friends where like they it gave them the chance to pursue something better, something even more lucrative, And they wouldn't have left their current job if they hadn't been forced out, And so it was. I wouldn't say it was like easy. It was a tumultuous experience for them, but they've landed in a much better place, and so it's so easy to think about layoffs as purely negative.
But if we can change the way we think about it, and we can be more prepared for a potential one to come along, then I think it's all good. And it doesn't have to be nearly as much of like a disaster scenario as we might have built it up to be in our minds.
Most definitely, Man, all right, let's shift gears. Get back to the beer that you and I enjoyed during this episode. This was an absolute brightness biology and this is specifically the ology out of Tampa, So I think they used to be or primarily they were founded and based in Tallahassee. And Jamie, who's a long time listener, she sent us this beer as well as the beer we had on Monday,
and her husband specifically opened the Tampa location. But what your thoughts on this hazy double India pale ale, which is, by the way, what IPA stands for. We never say India pale ale, but that's what i PA. Everybody knows, right, right, most folks do, so, at least people listening to this show. Well, do you think more folks know what IRA stands for? I PA?
Well, now they're confused because IRA Inflation Reduction Act or Individual Retirement again?
Yeah?
Yeah, which one was it?
Well? Should we have a T shirt that's like IRA or IPA both? We could?
We should. Well, we need to do merchant. We haven't done it because we're lazy. But this beer, Matt was really really delightful.
This is tasty.
It was like packed with juice, juicy punch. But it's like, all it's not fake juice. It's all like just amazing hop juice. Right, And so that's what makes a great IPA. A great one is because all those juicy vibes come from the selection of hops that are included and just from like a pristine brewing process. So this one had four different kinds of hops in it, all right, and it taste you can taste that dry hop sort of like funk, that edge, that bite.
Yeah, I loved it. It's so good. Yeah, this is a really good one. I love that you talked about the fruity juiciness, but not because they're adjuncts in this beer, but because they're able to coax those flavors out of the hops. That's what you get with a delicious, hazy IPA. This absolute brightness was an absolute winner in my book. Jamie,
thank you for sending this one out away. And I'm glad too, because we've never had any Ology beers on the show before, so I don't even I'm not even sure if I've ever had any in I r L in real life, as I don't think they had either, so I've seen them, seen them around before, but it was good to finally see what it is that they had to offer.
So yeah, Well, if any of the rest of the lineup is it tastes like the ones that we've had already, this one or was it Rainbow color glasses? Yeah, then I'm pretty sure ology is made good. So fantastic, delightful beer. So yeah, very very delicious. Thank you, Jamie. Thank you to Jamie's husband as well.
I don't know his name.
She didn't mention it, but by the way, that's going to do it for this episode. We hope that you learned a lot, and we'll have links to some of the things that we mentioned in the show notes up on our website at how to money dot com.
That's right, and if you have been listening to the show for a while you have found this episode helpful, we would love it if you were to leave us a solid review wherever it is that you leave the review. It's really helpful and helping others to discover how to money. Joel, that's going to be it for this episode, Buddy. Until next time, Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out.