Making a Living on Airbnb with Zeona McIntyre #253

manages twenty and they're all over the world. She she also consults by working with her clients and helping them to achieve their short term rental goals right, so from finding an ideal rental property to purchase uh, she provides tips on furnishing all the way through to Tomain as well. And you know what's so great about ziana story is how she's used real estate to design the kind of

life that she wants to live. And you know, hopefully too after this interview, How the Money listeners out there will be inspired to do the same. So, Zianna, thanks so much for joining us today on the podcast. Thanks for having me. Hey so glad to have Usianna and every episode. You know, Matt and I we actually drink

a craft beer. Were big beer nerds. So for us, it's kind of this thing where we are splurging on something that we love now, while at the same time we're pretty thoughtful about saving and investing for our future. So do you have anything that you like to sport John in the here and now while you're building wealth, while you're building your real estate portfolio for your future self. I literally only buy holmes. My boyfriend says that some

girls buy shoes. I just buy homes. So literally, all the money that I put aside, I'm like, oh, that's almost enough for a home. So Zianna has no fun with any money that she makes. It's all going towards investment. Is it all deprivation for you? Like, there's got to be something that you you enjoy. I mean it sounds like you enjoy real estate as well. But yeah, what else? Yeah, I think I've just learned to hack things, you know, Like I love clothes and I love costuming and fashion,

but like I do um clothing swaps with friends. So we all just like bring a bunch of clothes to a house and like swap for free. And I don't buy anything. Maybe underwear, um and then other things like travels, Like I got so good at travel hacking that I do pet sitting and I do credit cards and all that kind of stuff. So miles and points pay for most everything, and then I don't have to pay for travel. So there are lots of things that I love to do, but I just like figure out how to have them

pay themselves. Nice. It sounds like you're fairly optimized then when it comes to the things that you enjoy doing. So that's yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. Well, yeah, let's dive right into you know, how you got started with airbnb specifically, So a friend of yours gave you the idea after he got laid off. Can you share how that all that went down? Yeah, So my friend was living in New York, and I feel like New York is just like the epicenter you hear about everything first, you know,

there's just so much happening there. And I was really familiar with this idea of couch surfing. I don't know if you guys had ever done that, but it was website that was really big and like oh six to maybe like two thousand ten or something like that, and I had like traveled and stayed at people's houses and

you stay on their couch and it's like free. Um. But he told me about this concept of Airbnb, where you actually rent out your house and travelers come but they're paying you, and so I was like, oh, I'm super into that idea of like living vicariously through people's adventures and hosting people and all of that. So it

already seemed like an easy match Airbnb. By the way, uh, I feel like it took it was CouchSurfing made legitimate, yeah, to a certain extent, because that also then cost you money, which totally I mean, I think there's something still really beautiful about the idea of couch surfing, but for some reason, I don't know, it didn't really stick around the same. But I guess people just really like money too. Yeah. But essentially he decided to try it out, and I

was like, oh, that sounds really cool. Um. And he was stuck in this lease because he was living in New York and I think his apartment most like three thousand a month, you know, just crazy um. And he decided, Okay, I'm going to just try this Airbnb thing. I'm going to rent out my place hopefully it'll just cover my expenses until I can get out of the lease. So

he was traveling like in Spain and South Africa. He was only going to be um, you know, like unemployed and having unemployment travel for like three months, and then he ended up making so much money off of his apartment. He traveled for an entire year. And the whole time he was like, man, you gotta do this, you gotta try this, And I was just distracted. I was in school and I didn't feel like I had the time. Um,

but he's very persistent. Uh, And after an entire year, he told me that he made fifty thousand dollars off of this apartment that he didn't own. So that got me listening. Okay, You're like, okay, that's real stinking money right there. Off that you know for sure, and travel on that. So and then when you first got into a Zianna, you were basically subletting apartments that you were currently renting, but on the d L, right, and that was was that like a little bit shady? What were

things like for you in those days? I feel like I've heard stories about that, like way back when when folks were like, but don't make any noise when you check it, okay, Like yeah, I think. Yeah, it's interesting because back then people didn't know about Airbnb, so kind of when I would tell people, they wouldn't know what I'm talking about anyway. So it was kind of like a really small I don't know, niche or something for

at least the first couple of years. So the only thing that made me feel worried is just kind of my my like very clear sense of right and wrong. I was like, I think this is wrong, but it works, and there's no rule that says that it's wrong. Okay, right. So I think there was a part of me that was always kind of worried that a landlord would find out and I would get in trouble somehow, but it

didn't really happen that way. There was two different incidentss when I got asked to leave an apartment that I was solely um renting and then re renting. One of the instances was it was like a nine unit apartment building and they owned the entire building. So then one of the neighbors routed me out. So I was like, okay, I get that, you know, like that's stupid. I didn't

realize you guys had the whole building. Um. And then the next time that it happened, and I'll say that that first time, they gave me back my deposit and full, they gave me time to move. They were very cool about it, and they even said, wow, that was a really cool idea, but we don't want you to do it in our apartment. Credit that's pretty ingenious, like we love your furnishing and everything. But I get out. So

that was cool. But then the second time that it happened, Um, I had a little like one bedroom at another place ace and I don't know how the owner found out, but maybe, Oh, I think it's because he was trying to list on Airbnb, and so you found out. I said, oh, sorry, I didn't know that's my place. Yeah, totally. And then he asked me to go and I got someone to take over my lease, and that girl later I found her and him on Airbnb and I was like, Okay,

you can't stop the system. You know, they're all doing it. The floodgates were open at that point in time. Yeah, I mean, and so like you know, obviously in a lot of leases there are clauses built in. You know that don't allow you to sublet. But that's that's not necessarily something that like that you mentioned that is completely wrong. Like sometimes you are allowed to, you know, to sublet your place, and I mean there's a term for that,

like that's master leasing. Right. Yeah. Um, I think people call it arbitrage as well. But yeah, I mean subletting is negotiable. I would say that everything in a lease and everything in life is negotiable. So what I would do when I was signing up for those situations is just say, hey, you know, I travel sometimes for work. I would love to be able to sublet if I'm gone for an extended period. And they would always just like cross it out of the lease and let me

do it. So I was on the right there. It's just that they didn't realize that it was like Airbnb and I was making money on their apartment and all these other kind of things that sometimes make people upset. Yeah, well that's I mean think that's really important to know for people that are considering it, that that is negotiable when you're talking to a landlord, and that it's possible.

Like I think if one of my tenants came to me, even if there were a percent above board, and we're like, I'd like to write your place and run it out on Airbnb all the time, but I'll pay you a hundred dollars more a month than market rate. Then what you're asking in order to do it, I'd be like, all right, cool, that sounds like, let's talk about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I think, um that those kind of things

are always open for negotiation. That's a good point. Uh. And then you kind of began to move past that and buy some real estate. But the first place that you bought, you kind of had to get creative with

the financing. So can you tell us about that too. Yeah, So my first place, it took me a aisle to kind of get to that place and being able to buy, But it was already after my first two years where I was feeling financially independent, um, and those were just off of places I was renting, So it was really

cool that that could happen on its own. Um. But when I went to buy, I had this great um position where I had a one bedroom apartment that was five minutes away from the other apartment that I was going to buy, and so I had already been renting this place out for like a year and a half, and so sometimes I tell people Airbnb is like training wheels for real estate, you know. So I had all

the numbers. I knew what everything costs, and knew what my property could make, and so when I went over to buy the other one, it was really easy for me to know what would work and what wouldn't work. So that was like a great, you know, foundation for me. At the time, I had a friend who was a previous landlord of mine and we had just kind of

stayed in touch, and he was a big investor. I think he owns like eighteen apartments or something and all in one complex, and so I think I had heard that he gives people loans, and so I just thought, you know what, let me just try. Um I got some money. Yeah, I was like, you know, I work for myself, and I've heard that's hard to get a mortgage, and I was doing like massage and Airbnb, and Airbnb

wasn't really recognized his income yet. It was kind of this weird gray area, so I thought that would be difficult for lending. So I just thought, Okay, I'm just gonna go ask, and if he says no, then I have to figure out a new plan, you know. Um, but he was cool with it, and he ended up making a loan for me. The house that I got was like one sixty two. I think our loan was one forty four. And at that time, I mean literally that could have been a million dollars that I was

asking for. It was just like so much money. But he made it really easy for me. And I feel super grateful that people in real estate are so open to helping people very often. You know, it's really like a mentor teaching kind of community, and I think sometimes you just you to ask. You never know if people are going to say yes, yeah. I mean what's cool about that too, is is yeah. I mean you kind

of mentioned him as almost this mentor. I mean you're you're able to ask him questions and you talk with them and talk about the market. I'm sure you know when when if someone's that invested in the local market there and and interested in real estate, they're going to have a lot of wisdom. And that's not something you're gonna learn from, uh, talking to your bank, Like you don't get that, Like you can't even get that with a credit union, you know, as much as we love

local credit unions. And I'm sure you know, he wants to make sure his his investment is going to do well and and so you know, he probably wants to talk through the fundamentals of the property you're buying to make sure that it's gonna work out well for him. So I'm sure that in some ways was a learning experience in and of itself. Yeah, it was surprisingly light. I mean, and I'm like, wow, they want everything and

your first baby. He was really like, Okay, do you think you could cover this mortgage about And I was like, yeah, I think so. And he's like, uh, I'm glad to see that it worked out for you. Obviously, you know in the time since then that yeah, that's really panned out for you. But I mean, I assume you don't do that currently, right, you know, as far as private money lending, you know, so have you changed your approach

to to find anything since then? Yeah? So I started with private money and I got two loans from this guy, which was really great. Um. And then from there I worked in partnerships and so I would find people that either had cash or they had an easy w two job, and we would partner together and work out some kind

of split. You know, it might be a fifty fifty or sixty forty because I was managing and kind of found the property and did all the leg work for them, and they were just kind of like riding the coat tails and being able to get the mortgage. So I still have a few of those relationships, and I think that worked out really well. I'm just for the first time getting a mortgage on my own, and it feels

like big girl steps. But you know, I guess lots of people probably don't know, but you're able to get ten conventional loans in your own name, and so if you max that out, it's nice to know that there's other creative ways to get loans with other people and

their names or privately. So yeah, it's good to get creative. Well, Ziana, we have listeners basically who live across the United States international too, and you know, people who live in Los Angeles, people who live in Montgomery, Alabama, and and so you know, we're really talking about this wide range of real estate prices,

just different scenarios. When you're talking about renting in an airbnb and actually, like before we started recording, you said that you're buying a home in Making, Georgia, just south of US, which is fascinating. So obviously it seems like you think that airbnb can work in any market. Is that true? Or their markets maybe where it doesn't make as much sense, Like what do you have to think through based on where you live? Yeah, that's really interesting.

So this place I'm making, that's actually my boyfriend's buying it and I'm helping facilitate. I am the puppet master. Um, it is not going to be an Airbnb that will be long term, but could it work in making? Maybe

I'd have to do a little more research. I think what's been really interesting since COVID is that a lot of the places that people thought would be like the hot markets forever, like all of the really dense cities, um, have become like a little less desirable because people are wanting to have more of a like drive to destination with space and work from home office. So I was finding that some of the kind of out of the way b and bs that I manage, we're doing so

much better. Cabin in the woods so hot right now? Yeah? Yeah, So I think it just depends. I would say that maybe the middle of nowhere doesn't make sense as much. But I've also heard of people that live like right off the highway perfectly between two cities and it just ended up being like a great stop over. So you never really know. I think it's just about doing the research ahead of time, and airbnb can work in lots

of places. Nice. Well yeah, well, I mean that's what we're looking to talk about the rest of this episode on just we want to get your thoughts on Airbnb and you know, some specific tips as folks might be looking to dabble in it themselves. And so yeah, we're gonna get your thoughts on that on Airbnb specifically. But first let's take a quick break. All right, we're back from the break. We're talking about making a living on Airbnb.

We're talking with the Xiana McEntire and we we just kind of talked about your you're making rental that's gonna be a more long term one. So airbnb versus long term rentals. You see more gung ho about Airbnb than traditional rental properties. But yeah, you're you're delving into both. So yeah, where do you fall on those? Which ones

do you like more? And why? I think it's like when you're young and starting out, it's great to be scrappy and you want to like maximize every little penny, right, and I think Airbnb can do that with the right places. I think airbnb is the best for a house hack if you live on the property, or you're living for free because you're renting a room or the basement or something like that. It is the best. If you're buying

a property to airbnb it. There are a lot of people in that space that do it professionally, and you have potentially a lot of competition based on where you are, so that has gotten like a little less profitable. There were a few years back where it was like great. Every year was like more and more money and you could charge more and there was just so much demand. And I feel like it's kind of like shrunk down a little bit. So I wouldn't say don't do it.

I would just say make sure that your numbers are going to work for you. UM, and I super encourage it for anybody that's like actually doing it at their home.

We just bought a place, my boyfriend and I UM in January, and our whole plan was, um, we have an extra room here, but we also would rent it out any time that we travel and we go and do this pet sitting thing um, which basically means that we go and watch people's pets and then they don't pay us, but we're making like two fifty dollars a night on our Airbnb and so we you know, can live for free that way, and there's lots of creative

ways to do that. So specifically, you know, with when it comes to like an air to be property, like, what is it that you're looking for in a property like that you are planning to list on Airbnb? Does it truly just come down to the numbers or are there other things that you're kind of keeping in mind as well? I mean, I think everything comes down to numbers,

but there are lots of other considerations. I mean, you wanted to have kind of like a an interesting look, so an Airbnb kind of like I guess I would say instagramm herble look, right. So that can be with furnishing, but it can also be with architecture, and it can be with renovations. So it kind of depends on how deep you want to get into the project. I personally like to buy stuff already renovated in a cool way and then I just like move in and furnish it.

But some people are real scrappy. So yeah, I would say the way that it looks is a huge factor because you're selling it by photos, um, and yeah, so that that's a huge thing. But then the location is also something that people really want, and of course that's very common in real estate. Everybody talks about location, so there are definitely ways to do research about that. But you're going to want a location that draws people in. It can be next to an airport, it can be

by a hospital. Hospitals are huge actually, and universities. I find that I really like interesting. Those those are good tips. I would not have thought I would never have Yeah, I wouldn't. I mean with the hospital specifically. Is that just with folks you know unfortunately like coming to visit somebody in the hospital and they just need someplace to stay for a couple of days. No, actually, so there's this huge market of traveling medical professional oh god, like

nurse housing. Yeah so nurses, doctors, um. Then people that are coming from medical treatments and the people visiting people with treatments. So yeah, you'd be really surprised about hospitals. Man. Okay, Uh, so we're talking a lot about we're using Airbnb, right, and and that's kind of where you've really done most of your short term your short term rental listings, and

you've done really well like that. But there are other sites out there that compete with Airbnb, like v r b O, right, and so, are are there any other sites that you feel like people can do just as well on Is it worth it to look at airbnbs competition or is Airbnb like the only game in town, which, by the way, you said v r b O, Yeah, they rebraid. Haven't school ads on YouTube verbo? It's the worst. I'm sorry. Every time your verbo, I'm like, nope, I reject that v r b O. It's not going to

buy into your new brand. It's so bad. Um, yes, I think it's valad to be on both of those websites. I have branched out and tried some of the others, and there are hundreds, but I really don't think that I get the return that I need. So it's like, no, every time you learn a new website, you have to learn their like back end, their extra net. It's just very complicated. So what I find is that I get my bookings on Airbnb. So I really just like, wow, I think you could do just Airbnb, but um, I

think you know, vr b o is is worth it too. Um. And then I would say it kind of depends on the type of house, because some people tell me that they get nine of their stuff from vr b oh. I think it's really strange. But I think maybe if it's a house that attracts older people or that's I don't know, some somewhere where Canadians travel for some reason, I think they really use that site. And then if you're in Europe, maybe more booking dot Com, but I've

found them to be very frustrating. So I would say that Airbnb is a great place to start. And then if you're becoming like an expert the new kind of branch out, you know, yeah, yeah, I can picture vr b oh. I'm like torn now and like, which, which what do you say? Because because you guys love saying v r b oh, I instinctively want to say verbo because I buy into marketing. But um, you know, so okay, so what about managing these properties? Ziana? You know, like,

how have you gone about managing these rentals? Like as you started to build your portfolio. You know, like when we talk about real estate, that's one of the most consistent responses that we get. Folks say, I don't want to manage tenants. So for you, have you found with short terminals? Is it really all that bad? No? I think it's all about creating systems, right. So, you know, with COVID, I found that you could do longer term stays like three months and six months, and I actually

really like that because there's less turnover. But even with short term rentals, if you can figure out a way to have your cleaner automatically get emails or if she's kind of signed into your calendar and so you don't have to be back and forth with her, like she knows when she cleans, then you're so good. I mean, it's really just the inconvenience of a guest learning your property every couple of days so there's more communication and

then the cleaning. So if you've got a really dependable cleaner and she knows how to schedule herself, you're pretty much n there. I think like one thing that would that really helped me when I got started is that at first I was really just trying to do it all myself and bootstrap it. So I was the cleaner, and I was you know, all the guests communication, and I created the house manuals and I furnished the place and later I found other people to do those things

or figured out ways to automate it, you know. But I think that doing all the tasks helps you know how to do it and how to teach it. So it's great to start that way. True. Yeah, good, that's a that's a good, good tip. I think that's something that Matt and I recommend with long term rentals. Two is to manage properties yourself, at least in the beginning, so that you can know what questions to ask of a property manager when you do hire somebody. That that's

super helpful. Do you think zona changing regulations towards Airbnb in some cities, Like, does that make you nervous because some people have gotten shut down They bought places specifically to rent out on Airbnb and now that's illegal, like they can't do that, Like, so does that make you nervous and threaten your business model? Yeah, we want to

make sure that all seven of your properties aren't in Paris. Yeah, I mean, I think at this day and age, most places have put in some kind of regulations, so that kind of like, oh, is it going to change over thing. I don't think it's as big of a problem as it maybe used to be when everything was sort of influx.

So nowadays you can pretty much plug in like any city and short term rental laws in Google and you can see either that they are discussing it or they've already put in some kind of measures, And a lot of places they either wanted to be your primary residence or they'll let you have like one some places are open, but um, I think it's just about reading the rules

and then learning how to work within them. I think what's also really cool is that a lot of places that don't want you to short term, they'll let you do thirty days and more. And there's a whole lot that can happen in the three to six month rental range, which I really love. That whole like travel nurses and doctors thing is fantastic. So I wouldn't say that like, oh my god, it's going to kill your business, like there's so much need for furnish rentals. Yeah. Yeah, so

full disclosure. When my wife and I renovated our house, we actually renovated the basement. Uh in. You know, we we had an Airbnb listing that we did for a little bit there, and we found that over time we kind of were we realize what you're saying, where it's like, you know what, I feel like the sweet spot for us might be someone that was down here for maybe about three months or so. But then John, I we actually we took it over four podcasting, so we're actually

sitting down here in the old airbnb. But I'm totally with you. I totally get that that kind of sweet spot when it comes to two time frames. Well, and something else too, you know. You know you mentioned like we're talking about the property that you're looking at down and make in how that's not going to be an airbnb. But so specifically for you, like how has the global

pandemic affected you know, the rest of your properties. You know, I'm sure you saw a sharp decline back in the spring, but are you seeing a lasting impact because of COVID? I would say what I see is just basically discounts. It's like a little bit less than what you would normally charge, and so that's okay, you know, but I think that there was a steady um, maybe two weeks where like all of the reservations canceled and that was

kind of a scary thing. And then it started being that like lots of people wanted to go somewhere, but like four a month or longer, and so then all these places we're getting booked up, and I was really surprised to see that. So I think for me, it hasn't changed that much. What has changed is that some people, because they're having a hard time working, they've decided, oh,

I have to self manage for a time. So I've lost a few listings that way, or some people are just uncomfortable renting their homes so they've they've taken them off the market. So I've seen a little bit of that. But the ones that are open, they're doing fantastic. So I would say, yeah, it's still a very viable business model and probably super helpful for people that are not

making as much money now. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Un at the beginning of this segment, you mentioned when you travel, like you have all these different ways to maybe at the beginning of the show, actually you said credit cards, pet sitting. I want to know more about pet sitting real quick. How how how you use pet sitting in order to travel for cheaper for free? And then yeah, maybe detail a couple of other of your favorite hacks and how yeah, they allow you to travel for for

almost no money. Yeah. So I used to just do a lot of pet sitting, like word of mouth around Boulder, and then I started getting people in other markets from Facebook and stuff. So I like maybe two years ago, I was like going to St. Thomas and going to Mexico and like pet sitting in Hawaii, you know, and it was great, They're paying for your plane ticket and

letting you stay in their house or how's that work? Um? No, the further ones away, I would just figure out the plane ticket with miles or something like that, and they generally didn't pay. Some of the ones that were in Boulder would pay. And that's where I live in Boulder, Colorado. Um And so that was always just like a bonus. But I was renting out my place, so I didn't

really care about that. But back in the day when I didn't have like it was all word of mouth, it ended up just being like sometimes I would stay in places and they would be a little dumpy, and sometimes it stays somewhere to be fantastic. But now that I have this app, so I used Trusted House Sitters and it's amazing and I could send you a code

if you want to share it with your peeps. Um, but man, we only stay in places that when I see it, I go like, oh that likes exciting, you know, like I only stay in sweet like villas and stuff like that. But basically, um, if you're on this site, like if you set up notifications, there's definitely like ways to hack the site. But if you're very quick to respond to someone once they post something, um, you can get all kinds of wonderful stuff. And right now, because

of COVID, we're kind of just staying in Colorado. But my goodness, we've been in like Breckon Ridge and you know, all kinds of places crusted bewd and just having all these like wonderful retreats and mountain villas and you know, hot tubs and stuff. And then you've got like one little cat. But we love pets and we don't have any. So I think even like with quarantine, we were just like, oh my god, we need to snuggle something. It's great, Yeah,

give me a soft labordoodles that kind of. I mean, I feel like too, like pets are the perfect way to get to know an area, you know, like one of the things when my wife, when Kate and I purchased our first home, we immediately that was what allowed us to then get a dog, Like we knew we wouldn't. We didn't want to have a pet until we had our own place because we weren't going to do the elevator thing and trying to get them outside up you know,

potty trained them on that kind of thing. But oh my gosh, we were able to meet so many of our neighbors so quickly just by going out for walks. Because you know what, when you have a puppy, everybody, everybody's gonna come up and talk to you. But I feel like that's just a really cool way to get to know a neighborhood. If you are traveling as well, just kind of going out for a walk, if you have a if you're watching someone's fancy dog, Yeah, yeah,

this is this is awesome. Uh, we are going to take a quick break, but after that we're gonna get some more advice from you for individuals who might be looking to host their their very first Airbnb, and so we'll get to that right after this break. Alright, we'll back from the break. We're talking about making a living with Airbnb and and a whole lot of other stuff too,

with Zianna McIntyre. Uh. Zianna, I've hopefully not an awkward question for you here, but almost a decade of your life has now been dedicated to real estate, lots of those endeavors through Airbnb, and you learned about it while you were in college. Right, So do you actually feel like your college education was necessary to get you where you are today? And if you had to go back and do it over, would you quit school? Yeah? I

would say absolutely not. Um. I am a big believer that people can self educate, and I mean, I think there's a lot of great things that come out of education. But if you don't know what you want to do and you're just going through the motions, I think it's a really expensive way to do that. And I think I'm like all about gap years, and I'm all about different kinds of technical programs and things that you can do until you figure out what you want to do.

Because what I've sort of seen and at least what was true for me is that I didn't really know what I wanted until it was like mid to late twenties, and so there's a huge period of time there, you know, after high school, but like you just kind of try things. So I think college can be a really expensive way to do that, and I definitely didn't need I think I had like I probably pay like sixty grand or seventy grand total. I don't have that dead anymore. But

like I don't think it made it made sense, you know. Yeah, well, I mean that's certainly something to I mean, I don't I don't personally feel that was an awkward question such an open book. You just asked me all the things.

I'm good. I feel like that's that's important to cover though, too, because I mean that is kind of the I mean, that's the default, right you go to college, and like you said, you know, it's so expensive, especially too, as folks are going to these really pricey schools and they don't even know what it is that they want to get into. It's yeah, it's just like you said, it's

an expensive lesson to learn. There's a huge backlash right now, you know, people are asking their colleges their institutions to drastically reduce the price because it's glorified Skype learning session at this point in time, pretty crazy. So yeah, we're going through definitely like a sea change in how people

view college and higher education in general. Yeah. So okay, so you know, I'm guessing a lot of people, you know, who are listening, they're loving your story, right, but they may not necessarily want to own or manage a bunch of properties themselves, um or at least not yet until they discover in their late twenties that that's what they want to do. How can someone get started on Airbnb? You know? So, like what tips do you have for

first time hosts? Yeah? I mean I think the best thing is to start with your own place, right because you have to kind of see if you like it, um And so I think the best is like if you can rent out a room in your place, and it can even be your room, even if you have roommates. You can try to work something out where you give them a cut, but you get that experience of like, Okay, what kind of things do I need for a guest? And how what kind of questions are they going to

ask me? And what is it really like to clean for somebody else and just all that kind of stuff. Um. It's definitely not rocket science, and I think anybody can figure it out, but you have to kind of do it. And then after that, I would say, if it's something you really love, it's great to go try to find somebody that you can manage their property. And the reason I think that's great is because it's no cost to you.

So you know, if you find a friend or you know, a family member that has maybe a cabin that they don't use that much, um, you can ask them to buy the sheets and the towels and all the things, and they give you a house furnished and they're covering the mortgage and basically you're only making a percentage and it could be you know, twenty to um, but it's basically like you make money when they make money. So they're excited about it and you're excited about it. But

it's really no cost to you. So I think that's a great way to kind of start and test the waters. But of course, make the mistakes on your own place before you go and do it on other people's places. Nice. I love that, Yeah, I mean, that's what's so great too about airbnb is that you can just try it out. You know, it's not this huge commitment. It's like, you know, snap a few pictures, make the make the listing happen,

make it look nice. Yeah, and then you can just try it out and then if you don't like it, you just stop. Quit after three nights if you're done. Yeah. Uh, what are some of the most creative ways you've seen people make money from their house any in particular outside of the box ways you've seen people make revenue and

generating an income doing this. Yeah. So I have this friend, Shelley and um in Colorado Springs, which like an hour and a half from here, and I think she was wanting to go camping one summer and looked at the nearby camp sites for her family and realized like, wow, it's all booked like months in advance, you know, you can't get a spot anywhere. And so then she thought, well,

we have a backyard. What if we put a tent up here and we you know, charged the same It was like forty dollars a night for a camp spot. So they're like, okay, can we do it here? So they have this really cool backyard that overlooks like open space and you can just go like walking out on trails outside of their yards. And I don't even think they provided a tent. They just provided the spot with like some s'more supplies and a little fire pit and they have a cute yard with like, um, you know,

patio furniture and that was it. Um And I think they we're making I don't know, eight hundred a month or something like that, but like it was a game changer for her and now she probably manages about five properties or so, but um, it really just like changed her life. So I think there are so many cool creative ways that you can start. That is impressive. Yeah, I've got a friend here in Atlanta and he and his wife they have a too i think to tps

now in their backyard. So they basically live on this little farm and they created these tepees, uh, and they've got like goats and chickens and stuff like that. But yeah, that's part of their whole attraction is that it kind of feels like you're you're on a farm, but you also get to sleep in tepees and you kind up with the goats or now you're a lot of pet them and it's like kick you, Um, well you got to Like you mentioned too, how like there's a lot

of competition. We're kind of out of that phase where the rates were kind of climbing year after year. There's more places listed now than there ever have been on Airbnb. So for someone starting out, how would they make their listing stand out on Airbnb? You know? Like I heard you talking about the furnishings, is that, you know, one of the ways to go about it is just kind of like picking up cool furniture or yeah, how would you recommend for folks to do that? I think that's

a big piece. I think that the kind of days of well, I'll just put up like my dorm looking very minimalist place that doesn't work anymore. And I mean, I'll admit that's how I started. You know, I was like five, and I didn't have any money, and everything like was mismatchy. But now you need to kind of do a little research, you know, look through a couple interior design magazines or Pinterest or something, um, and it

doesn't have to be expensive. I do most of my stuff secondhand, probably all of it, but with Facebook, Marketplace and like Craigslist now you can find so many cool pieces. So yeah, I definitely think it needs to be colorful, it has to have texture. It just really needs to pop in a photo. And then I would say, for sure you have to do professional photography. Lots of people want to skimp on that, but it really sells it um and that's that's your barrier. Picks aren't going cut

it um. Yeah. I mean I've seen some people have some really cool um filters and like they know how to do, but like I don't do that well. So I was like, yeah, I think professional photos are definitely better than just baseline iPhone photos. Yeah for sure. Yeah. Alright, So so another thing too, when it comes to how this functions in reality, if you do attempt to run a place out on Airbnb, there's a certain amount of like optimization that needs to take place in order for

it not to consume your life. I think Matt found that out too when he was attempting to run out his basement. So, like, what are some of your best tips for optimizing property so that you're not constantly thinking about it constantly beholden to the notifications or a booking attempt or having to get in touch with the cleaner. Yeah, I mean specifically, I'll say, like I mean the number of settings for a listing all on AIRBB it's unreal, Like there's all these menus and sub menus and you know,

it's it's really hard to navigate. I was actually really surprised at the just the pure quantity of options, you know when you log into your listing on your phone. But yeah, I would love to hear you speak to that as well. Yeah. I think it's really funny because they add stuff all the time, but they don't notify you. So you go in there and you're like, well, what's this that's lily weird feature that I have to fill out or nobody will think I'm relevant. Um, yeah, it's

really weird with that. But as far as optimizing, I would say there's lots of little things that you could do that you kind of learn along the way. So like somebody might have one set of sheets for their bed, but if you have a second or third set, then they can optimize the laundry. So that's like a very

small but quick fix that makes a big deal. I would say figuring out an automated way that you're cleaner is getting notification, So whether it's having like an email that transfers to her every time it comes in from Airbnb, or it's having a shared calendar that will save your life because all of the back and forth and oh I mistakenly said it was this day and not at day like that will that will kill you, you know,

So you definitely want to have that. I would say. Also, there are saved replies that you can set up an Airbnb like right in the app, and those are really helpful too, because you'll start to find like people will ask you the same few questions like you know, what's the parking, what's the WiFi? You know, do you have a grill or whatever? And if you plug in those saved replies, you don't have to type it out every

single time. You just click the button. And so yeah, I think those kinds of little things make it really easy. Um as far as settings go, I mean, when you set up an Airbnb account, there is an option to use their wizard that kind of like walks you through and ask you questions, but it's definitely not comprehensive. It's just like the basics. I think that it's important to go through every tab and kind of educate yourself the

first time. Um So I do listing creation for a lot of people, but I still tell them like go in there and see all the settings. I'll tell you what we're doing, and we'll talk about it ahead of time, but like you should know what options there are. And I don't know if they actually do it, but you're

basically like an Airbnb sherpa at this point. Seriously, Yeah, well, so I want to follow up to with with the with the cleaning multiple times now, you mentioned cleaners, and you also mentioned too that like one of the easiest ways to kind of get started is by running out your own room or maybe running out an extra room in your house. You know, early on, a lots of this might a lot of this cleaning might fall on you, right like it's it's maybe the best way to save money.

It's it's a wave that you can be scrappy. Is there a way to make cleaning easier, because that's one of the things that we found to say, I have an Airbnb and I manage it myself. What that means is I clean and I flip, you know, like that's all. It really feels like like yes, you get to meet them and you know, or talk to them, I guess if you want. But you know the rest of it, like that's time consuming, is the cleaning aspect of it.

So I didn't know if you had any tips for folks, you know, if they're just getting started and they don't want to have a cleaner, Like, what would you recommend from the standpoint of, you know, making a space easier to clean and flip? Yeah, So this is how it worked for me because I would always rent out my own place and I would do it like on the drop of a hat. If I had an opportunity to stay at a person's house or babysit or do something where I wouldn't be in my house, I was doing it.

So for me, the key was to live really clean, Like I was doing a little bit of cleaning every day and that made my house really clean. Now, if you're doing an additional space, first, I'll say about a room in a house, right, so it's a room that you don't actually live in. That to just flip one room, you're basically you know, cleaning the floor, wiping the surfaces, doing the sheets. That can be ten minutes. So if the rest of your house is always clean and maintained.

It's not that bad if you're talking about a totally different space. It's really dependent on if those people left it like a crazy mass. Sometimes people look like they didn't even stay. You know, they'll even like remake the dirty bed, and you're like, why did you do that? Yeah, So I mean with something like that. I found that for me it was helpful to have kind of like

a routine in the house. So you can either have like a checklist or something, but you know that you do it the same way every time, because I noticed personally, I would get really overwhelmed if I saw a really dirty place and then I was like, Okay, I'm grabbing this one thing and then going into this other room and then I'm lost and it's taken me three hours when it should have been one. But if I had like a checklist, I'd be like, okay, I'm doing the

sheets first, and then I'm doing this next thing. It kind of helped me stay on task even when it was harder. Nice. I love that. Yeah, that's great advice. All right, Ziana. This has been great, And I think like education for a lot of people who are interested in pursuing, you know, renting out whether it's part of their own home on Airbnb to make some some side income, or pursuing it even in a bigger context kind of you know, like you're doing. Um, so yeah, where where

can our audience find out more about what you're up to? Yeah, I have a blog on Ziona McEntire dot com and it shows all the different offerings I have about Airbnb creation and consulting and I'm becoming a real estate agent, so you know, all the thanks very cool. We will make sure to to link to your blog your site there on our show notes. Uh and then Zianna, thanks

so much. Yeah, we really enjoy this conversation. I hope that this has been just a nice like Airbnb one oh one kind of interview for for all of our listeners out there who might be looking for ways to to supplement their own income. So thanks again for for coming on the podcast. Thanks again, Siana, Matt. That was

like such a great conversation. Zianna is basically the Airbnb shirt, I like I said, so, I like that you said that, darning because it really is a perfect way of describing what it is that she's done, you know, like she's gone through this herself and now she's helping our listeners figure out how how they can potentially do this as well. Yeah, and I think there were a lot of creative ideas. That was a fun conversation. All right, So what was

your big takeaway from this episode? Man? Yeah, okay, well mine how to do with not just Airbnb specifically, but just real estate as a whole. How if we implement systems and how it is that we do things, it can make anything just way more doable, way more approachable. Right. We really do hear that all the time that folks are they complain about renters, they complain about you know,

the calls in the middle of the night. Guess what, I've never had a call in the middle of the night because that's not how I communicate with my tenants, you know. Uh. And so implementing systems can make something that seems a little more daunting and a little more scary, like real estate, like Airbnb, it makes it way more approachable.

And that carries over to with the way she talked about cleaning an airbnb, right, she talked about having that checklist that's just a mini system, like that's all that is. It's just a way for you to stick to a plan that you know works, and so when it keeps to cleaning, knowing that this is the best order that I should clean this apartment in, We'll just make sure you hit that every single time, like, regardless of how

the place actually looks. I think that truly is the best way to minimize the amount of time that you are dedicating towards your airbnb. That's just a great way to keep it from becoming this massive time suck fanomizes frustration, right, Yeah, absolutely, man. So yeah, so what about you? What was your big takeaway for this interview? Yeah, I really you know that that first question in the last segment when we talked about her college experience and whether or not it was

worth it. And I don't want to disparage college, like I have a college degree and it I'm glad that I got it, and I think there's a lot of value there. I think thinking about how much it cost is really important. But but one of the things that she said in that reply was that you should try things. There's like this period in your life where you're not really sure what you want to do, and typically that's in your early twenties. There's a lot of exploration there's

a lot of trying and failing. There's a lot of thinking through what you want your life to look like. And I think the more things you try, the more you're willing to to give it a go, then the more likely you are to find something that's super enjoyable that you can do for a longer period of time. And it took her friend essentially convincing her over the period of the year, especially when she when she heard

that number fifts. I mean, that's convincing right there. And she could have easily stuck to something more conventional and said, you know, I've got this college degree, I need to use it, but she opted to try something new, and that new thing has panned out into a decade long career in real estate. So yeah, I love seeing that and I love hearing how trying something new seems to have led to something bigger than she could have really

thought or imagined. Totally. Man, Yeah, I really appreciated that she was, you know, all about the gap year, all about traveling, seeing the world, just seeing how other people are living their lives and not necessarily confining yourself to

like your bubble. You know, essentially, a lot of us kind of grew up in a bubble, not a pandemic bubble, but just our entire childhood and leading into too high school and college, and there are certain expectations on us, and for certain folks, I think kind of stepping out of that is more challenging than others. I think obviously some people are just predisposed to just trying new things.

But for those who aren't predisposed, you know, for those who like to play it safe, I think that's certainly a yeah, a great challenge for those folks as well. Joel, all right, let's take it back to our beer man. This episode, you and I had a chocolate peanut butter porter. Uh. And this is by a brewery? Is it lupelin? Lupulin maybe? Yeah, something like that. We've never I've never had a beer by these guys before war, but yeah, what we were thoughts,

Are this a brewery out of Minnesota? I've heard good things picked us up at the local package store. Yeah, and chocolate peanut butter porter. The first thing you think about is a Reese's peanut butter cup, And you know, had elements of that for sure, but it wasn't over the top at the same time, so I thought it was approachable. It had those nice chocolate and peanut butter notes.

Going on with Halloween coming up makes me think I'm gonna, uh, stealing some of my little girls Reese's peanut butter cups, and I'll be reminded of the speer when I when I do. Is that your favorite Reese's peanut butter cups? No, it's not. It's not that's your favorite. So I really like the like the gummy worms. Man, I'm a gummy So you're a sugar kind of guy. Yeah, So when we divide up the candy, you always you gotta have the sugar bucket and then you have the chocolate bucket.

Give me some of those kittles, because you can't mix them together if you got them. If you leave them together, they'll start to taste like each other. All the chocolate ends up tasting like fruit, and you don't want that. Terrible. I prefer the chocolate bucket unless with the sugar guy. And so for me, peanut butter cups there they rank up there, and so do snicker bars. See, we would have been perfect butter fingers as well. It would be perfect if we were friends as kids. So we could

have swapped candy Um after Halloween. It was destined to be for me, man, I I really enjoyed this beer and it wasn't overly sweet. And I bet that's probably why you like this one. I know you don't like beers that are too sweet, and with us one being a peanut butter porter, it definitely could have gone that way. Obviously. I think it would have been a little more sweet if it was a stout, but with it being a porter, it was lighter in body, but it was also lighter

in sugar. It kind of finished out a little bit dry. And you know what, it kind of made me think of the old school candy. And I think I've said this before, but a bit of honey or bit oh honey, or like Mary Jane maybe like like one of those old old school candies, uh, that are kind of like toffee, but they kind of have peanut butter and peanuts mixed into him. That's what this reminded me of. I don't know why I just stuck out in my mind. It took me back to a time before I was even born.

But I enjoyed this woman. Glad you picked it up. Glad we got to share it together today on the episode, and that's gonna be it for today. Our listeners can find our show notes up on our website at how to money dot com and up there will also make sure to link to Zona's site. And if you've been listening to this show for a while and you haven't left a review, well, Matt and I would massively appreciate if you would skip on over to Apple Podcast for a quick second leave us a kind review letting us

know what you think of the show. It helps other people find out about the content we're creating so that more people can be positively affected with good money information. We really appreciate it, so thanks in advance. All Right, Matt, that's gonna do it for this episode. Until next time, best Friends Out, Best Friends Out.