Welcome to Had of Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt. Today we're talking how to make money without having any with Sierra Rodgers.
Yeah.
So this is the episode for everyone out there who doesn't want to work like a soul crushing nine to five job, specifically where you're being told what you can and can't do by someone else. This is an episode about entrepreneurship, about starting your own business, which I will readily admit, like, even that phrase is potentially problematic because like, what do some folks think of when they hear launching
a business. Well, maybe they're thinking of like a shark tank, right, They're thinking of like the different rounds of funding, proposing a business plan, all that kind of stuff. And while that is how some businesses, again, I think the vast majority of small business owners they're not going to be running a fortunate fufuner company, right, They didn't go to
business school. But they do have a great idea for a new product, or they do have a way that they think they can serve folks who are willing to pay. And our guest today, Sierra Rodgers, is here to share how she started her business Babes, which is a woman's wear line, which she also recounts in her new book, The Outsider Advantage. It comes out next week June eighteenth, And Sierra, we're excited for you to share your story with our listeners, and thank you for joining us today on the podcast.
Thank you for having me me too.
Yeah. No, we're glad to have you along Sierra for today's episode. And the first question we got to ask everybody who comes on is what's your craft beer equivalent? Because Matt and I we spend potentially outrageous sums of money on craft beer at times, but we're still saving and investing for our future, so it's not like, you know, it's not too much, right, what's that thing for you? What do you like to splurge on.
I splurge on travel. I'm going to travel in the best and biggest uber that I can, and I'm going to fly first whenever I can. I just, I mean, that's just where it makes it most sense to me.
Okay, do you remember the first time that you flew first class? Because I do, and it was only once, so I literally odally ever flow business class one time, and man, I really did enjoy that cocktail, I will say, But other than that it's normally like Southwest cattle call. But what about you, what was your first your first first class experience.
Honestly, when I when I came out here, I started dating this guy who who made money and he flew first class, so I was like, you know what, I can do this too, Like I could afford this. So I was really proving something to him and myself and I had the best time, and yeah, I've been addicted ever since.
Yeah, that's funny. It makes me think that we used to have this airline here based out of Atlanta called air Tran, which I believe Southwest bought AirTran. But AirTran was so great because they had a really inexpensive business class and so you could feel like a baller, you could feel like a high roller, but you didn't have
to fork over much money to do. So when you talking about some of those like trains, Atlantic flights first class and stuff like that, sirih, I hope you're budgeting for that, because those be expensive tickets.
I mean they are expensive. They sometimes they make zero sense because it's like, Okay, this is probably not the smartest I shouldn't do this all the time. But I mean plan ahead. I mean it's what's important to you. Yeah.
Yeah, if that's exactly, If that's what you're gonna splurge on, more power to you.
Yeah, just make it make sense everywhere else. Don't splurge on everything.
Yes, exactly.
Yeah, you can't splurge everywhere, and when your book you're gonna end up broke. We know you're not splurged on everything. Like we know you've got prougal jeens in there.
Oh yeah for sure.
Okay, speaking of your books, Sarah, it starts off with you sleeping on a friend's couch. You're you're out in La. How did you end up end up there? What were you feeling at that point in your life.
I had recently graduated from college. Things weren't going as expected. I don't know if I'm just a terrible interview Lee, but I just could not find a job in Houston, not from Houston. I just kept getting nose left and right. My sister had moved out to LA and I kind of follow her out here and I found a house to sleep on and that's how it started.
I mean, okay, so I want you to actually share even more of your childhood because I know it involves. It wasn't an ideal upbringing that you and your sister and your your mom experienced.
Yeah, we hopped around a lot. We lived in cars. I was always trying to my mom was always trying to find somewhere for us to stay, whether it be with family or friends. Yeah, I didn't have a typical chata. I technically didn't have a room or a door to close until I got into high school. So it was definitely a rocky upbringing for sure.
Yeah.
Used to moving around and adapting and making things work.
So Sarah, my wife, is becoming a marriage and family therapist. And one thing I know, and I don't know much based on what she's learned, but I I've absorbed a little through osmosis, and I realized that like some of those things that happened in childhood, of course influence who become who we become, sometimes subconsciously, sometimes consciously, And that's what therapy is often about. It's like bringing those things
to the conscious surface. So tell me about that. For you, then, at your childhood, some of those awful, difficult things you went through, how did your childhood how did those events impact who you've become?
I'm kind of able to survive anything like, I don't really I'm not really phased by a lot. I'm used to adapting and moving and making something work out of nothing. There's obviously those bad triggers, like being an entrepreneur is really rocky, So on those lower sales days or lower sales months, I am triggered to thinking, hey, like I'm gonna be homeless again, or hey, maybe the jig is up. But on the other hand, it's pushed me to be
a really hard worker. I'm one of the hardest working for people that I know, and I feel like I could build this all over again if it didn't work.
Yeah, I don't know. There's something about I guess I want to hear your thoughts. Do you think that someone from you know, with your kind of background is more willing to take risks given the fact that they don't have this perfect sort of storybook life or childhood to protect, Because it seems like a lot of times if you have a whole lot to protect, you are less willing to take risks because it's all about preservation as opposed to kind of getting out there and trying something new
and seeing something that's going to be interesting. And something that's going to be successful. What are your thoughts on that.
I think so I think yes and no, because sometimes when I've seen it work different on both ends. I feel like sometimes when people are used to having a lot and used to things working out, they're more inclined to take risks. And then on the other end, if you've never had anything, and once you get hold of something, it's hard to like let that go. You're kind of grabbing a hold to it, and you can be a little less risky. It really depends on the person and the situation.
Yeah, one of the things that's very very telling about your story in reading your new book, the Outsider Advantage. You could have at so many different points along the way. You could have focused on what you didn't have. You could have adopted a victim mindset, and you could have kind of said, hey, life's not fair. But you seem to push through that and have a positive mentality and approach to your life, to your business ventures along the way.
Why do you think it is that you were able to avoid something that is so common for people who do have a tumultuous childhood or come from, you know, a socioeconomic background that lacks really any sort of stability or security. How are you able to overcome that and have a different approach.
That's a tough question to answer. It's just my instinct is we don't have time for that. Like I don't have time to wallow in my sorrow and say woe is me? I have like bills and I have to get off my friend's couch and I have to make something of myself. I don't. You just don't have time. That's just that's the easiest answer I can give you. It's like when you're like a hustler and you're you, you have a goal that you're trying to reach, like
being a victim, Like you don't really have time for that. Yes, like things suck and it doesn't feel good when you're in it, but if you want to get out of it, like adding on top of your already sucky situation with your sorrow isn't going to be helpful. And I'm all about being helpful to myself.
Yeah, it's not like you're saying that's unproductive. It's time not well spent.
It's not going to do anything. Literally, is like going to waste your own time make you feel sucky it's really not correct.
So tell us about you kind of starting out with your business and how it is basically that you got the ball rolling what made you go in that direction, I guess, versus maybe you know, maybe trying to go to take more of a traditional corporate sort of path route as opposed to you saying, hey, I want to be my own boss, I want to start my own thing, I want to call the shots.
I did try. I did try to go the typical route. It wasn't for me. And I also, as I said, I didn't have time to keep nelling that in and it wasn't working. I had a problem, I find. I mean everyone says this, but the best way to start a business is to find a problem that you can solve and also match it with like an open market,
open space in the market. So I had a problem I wanted to fix, Like there weren't many curvy brands that offered affordable basics for people like me, and I had access and I knew how to do it, and that was the first step.
So, okay, tell me more about the market, because it seems like there are more players in that space now, not that I'm an expert, but like.
Oh yeah, but like, oh, Joe's like the opposite of a curvy woman.
Right, I'm a stick like man. I look like a stick bug in version six or five zero proves to me, so like, yeah, it was.
It was.
It just like a failing, a failing, a lack of foresight by a lot of the bigger retailers, the bigger brands out there, the bigger clothing brands, that they just didn't really this was a market they could sell to, because it certainly seems like it's a market that's exploded in recent years.
I don't know if they didn't realize or they just didn't care like they're I mean, of course, I mean if you look at the world, if you pay attention at the time, if you look at women, they don't look like what they have like back in twenty twelve, what they were trying to make us feel like they look like. I don't know if it was just yeah,
I feel like they didn't care. I think they cared about the plus community, but there was a missing like gap in the middle of like the average woman, and no one was catering to that or cared to It's.
Like, not everybody looked like Kate Moss or whatever that was like the it was in vogue aesthetic, I guess back in the day, especially with the Victoria's Secret Angels and stuff like that, and so yeah, but all of those brands were kind of catering to a certain look and styling their closer, certain look and they were missing out on a large percentage of people who look more regular. Yeah, right, I could say that way.
Yeah, it's tough because it was our fault too, Like we liked looking at those Kate Moss and I mean I still like looking at k Moss, but we like, you know what I mean, we liked looking at that image on in the media and we were accepting it. So it really, it really came to us it was partially our fault. Like now it's a lot more you know, embrace your body and embrace your natural and what you have.
But back then that's not how it was. So it was it was their problem and it was our problem, and we needed to fix it.
Okay, So you said that, you know, and it's often quoted as the typical response of like how you start a business by solving a problem, but it also, like the way you write about it, it seems a bit more organic than that, because like you started selling first store clothes on Instagram. But it's like, at the same time you were doing that, it seemed like that's how you were kind of identifying the need. Can you kind of explain that entire process when you first got started.
It kind of just fell out of me. I mean, that's kind of what the gist of the book is about. I kind of already have these skills, like all along, skills that I wasn't like not embarrassed of, but we thrift it my entire life, Like most of my clothes were old like growing up, or you know, I had a knock for it because I was forced to do it, but I didn't. I had no idea that that was going to be like something I would end up making money from. I kind of, you know, I had it
all along. And that's what I'm trying to say, is like, if you're you kind of already have what you need to succeed, you really just have to dig in to yourself.
So is that just like an assessment of your skills? Is it sitting down and saying what skills do I have that maybe I don't think of as marketable right now? And wait, this, this, this, and this package together. Wait a second, I'm actually because you were like you weren't just selling Thirstorc clock. You were like you were tailoring them. You were making adjustments to those clothes. You were spicing them up right, So you were doing something. You were
taking something that might have seemed ordinary. And let's be honest, like it's funny. I have a good friend who had a similar well not a similar business, but he would go buy Yes, it was similar. So what you would do was he would go buy thirst Star clothes and then he would just sell them straight up on eBay. But you were making changes, you were turning them into something boutique. But he made a living doing that with
for his family for years. But you were doing something like you were adding on and creating another layer to make it even more inventive and unique.
Oh yeah, and I didn't. And I wasn't great at it. I'm not a great seller. I was doing what I like, you want your backs up against the wall. You'll become a basketball player if you have to, like like you're gonna. I had to teach myself to get better at that. But yeah, I just kind of used what I already.
Knew really, Like, I want to hear your thoughts on folks who might want to start a business but they don't have a ton of money. That's kind of how we were gonna latch in this episode, kind of like with that in mind. Like there's a lot of folks who think they can't actually do it because they don't have a ton of money saved up. They don't have a massive nest egg to kind of launch the business. What would you say to those folks.
There's a lot of free resources. I mean we all google everything all of the time, even like to start a website. You don't need a lot of money. I don't know where everyone got this idea that you need a lot of money to start a business, because you don't. I started on big Cartel. There was like five products that I got for free, and then I thrifted clothes, and then with each sell I would profit, and then they'ft more clothes and then profit. That's how you build
a business. You start, you make ten dollars, you turn that into twenty dollars, then you turn that into fifty dollars, and so on and so on. You don't need much to start a business. The hardest part is starting. Like a lot of people have ideas and they use that as an excuse to never start, But you really just have to start and make that first sell and then keep moving from there.
You write in your book, and this is a quote, you say your business needed me, not money. How does a lack of money maybe fuel your creativity and your drive to start your business. It seems like sometimes money can be like a compensation factor once starting a business. It's like, oh, you don't have to be as creative. You can try to follow the path that somebody else has where you don't have much, Like you've got to be more resourceful.
Yeah, you definitely to be more source. And I find that people with money when they start businesses, they waste a lot of it. Like I've seen a lot of people start brands spend so much money on the samples and the photo shoots and the models and getting everything started that you're not really paying attention to one. Is this a good idea? Of Two? Is it making any money? Am I spending too much on this to make profit? It definitely can be a distraction. Now money is great,
Like it needed me and money. I just didn't have the money so instead of focusing on what I didn't have, I was forced to get creative.
All right, So you said they were those brands were often wasting it, and I think, when you don't have money and tell me if I'm wrong on this, the immediate customer feedback, like, you take that the heart a whole lot more because at first, maybe you're like with You've got some money in the bank and you're like, okay, cool, let's test this out. I don't know if that worked well. We're going to keep trying to plot along our path.
You're more sensitive to the customer and what they want, because like, hey, you got to start making.
Sales, right.
You're paying a lot more attention because you don't have the time. You don't have the money to waste, and people who have money they have it to waste. Like a lot of people dump a lot of money in ads. They don't ever look at them because they're like, Okay, let me try like a thousand more. Maybe that didn't work out. Yeah, you're definitely paying more intention you have
a more personal relationship with your customers. It's just a it would have been easier if I would have had money, but me not having money forced to move me creative.
And one of the other things you say in the book that instead of money, if you have a whole lot of grit on hand, is that that can overcome that lack of funding. But it seems like you've got you've got tenacity, you've got work ethic in spades, and it certainly showed even in tough times. What do you attribute that to? Or maybe I should ask who you attribute that to? Given your history.
I saw my mom hustle my entire life, the different between her and me, and she had two kids at the time, So I don't know how she did it. I just there's a lot of things that I think are my personality that I look back and I'm like, dang, that's from her. This isn't me at all, Like I'm not just a natural hustler, because that's just how I am, It's how I grew up. She always had to make a way out of nothing, So yeah, it definitely came from her.
Yeah.
At one point in the book, you write about like finding helpful resources online to help you get that business off the ground, things that existed for entrepreneurs that didn't have, you know, bookoos of funding. You know they didn't have investors trying to help them grow their business. What sort of resources did you stumble upon? What helped the most?
YouTube? Really, Okay, I taught myself. I mean I didn't teach myself. You tube taught me photoshop, you know, like how to set up an ad, how to set up a store, how to sew. Literally like that was my resource for everything.
That's awesome. It's been a minute since we've done an episode like this, but we like to invest in real estate as well, and I feel like one of our early early episodes we just talked about how there's so much stuff that you can diy yourself. And we think that, especially if you're gonna be kind of a small time like MoMA Pop kind of landlord, that it really pays
to know how to do some of those things. And truly, you watch two or three YouTube videos on how to do a decently difficult task to repair something's just like.
All right, I feel like I've got it.
Time to change that toilet now that someone's just shared with me, Like, I mean, I do it perfectly just like they did, but over time you get better at it, and you're right like YouTube before YouTube, those resources like it was harder to come by.
You had to ask a friend, you had to hire a professional. And now it's like someone showing you.
There's somebody showing you exactly. Yeah, how it is it You can go about doing that. But we've actually we got more to get to because one of the other things you talk about that you need when it comes to starting a business is passion, and you've got a lot to say about that. We'll get to that more right after this.
All right, we're back. We're still talking with Sierra Rogers. We're talking about making money starting a business essentially without having a lot of money to get the ball rolling, Siarah. I want to specifically go back to the beginning of
your business. You mentioned in the book you talk about how you know Instagram was your main platform for trying to find followers who are interested in what you had to sell, and you got a reply from the user name Jazzy Girl eighty two and you say that that changed your life.
How so, yeah, she's shown me that I actually had a business, like I could. I think when you first get that first sell, you're like, oh wait, I'm onto something like and how can I replicate this? Over and over?
Again, So what was it that she said in when she reached out.
I think she just wanted to buy it.
How much can I get that?
You know, because back then Instagram wasn't really like like now you go on there and everyone's selling something, yes, but back then it was it was just like, you know, I'm posting my friends, I mean posting my pictures and I'm gonna love off, you know, like a Facebook.
It was more organic, didn't grassroots back then.
Yeah, Oh I missed. It was in the good old days. Yeah, so I didn't know, like I you know, there was Etsy. I think I remember like I had it Etsy at the time. I had the big cartel, but I didn't think like this was going to be the way that I would build my client base for sure.
I alluded to passion before the break. I love how you encourage folks to focus on like what it is
that they have, not what they don't have. We kind of talked about that with your upbringing, and you know, you seem to mean that from a material perspective, but also from a personal one, like how should folks think about exploring the relationship between what they're good at and what it is that they're passionate about, especially when it comes to business, because I think, yeah, there's a whole lot of folks out there talking about, oh, you need it,
you need to chase your passion. But maybe that's disconnected with reality. Maybe that's disconnected from the market. Maybe that's disconnected from what it is they're actually good at. But I would love for you to talk about even the process that you went through as you're trying to figure out what it is that you're going to pursue.
With me, I'm a realist, I am if I'm like, there's a lot of people that are passionate about things that they're not great at, you kind of want them to meet. If you're trying to make money, unless you just make a whole ton of money and you want to do a bunch of things that you're passionate about, that's not where I was at at the time. I got lucky. The thing that I was passionate about I was actually good at. I have a knack for sizing women. I look at women's bodies all the time. I love
fashion and I'm really good at it. So that's where that met. So for other people, I say, make a list, what are you really good at Are you passionate about it? Sometimes you're not. Sometimes you're in a field where you're actually good at something and you're not passionate about And that's okay, it's not like ideal, but I'd prefer that then you dive into something you're really passionate about and you're not good at and you don't make any money.
Yeah, yeah, it's nice to be able to I don't know, pay the bills, sustain your lifestyle, make building wealth and that helps, and that can cover a multitude of sins, including it you not being.
Passionate about it. I mean, I think what I'm hearing you say, Siera, though, is that like if you start doing the thing that you're good at, that maybe there's a way for you to cultivate that passion for something right. And I think for so many folks that's kind of
what it comes down to. It comes down to them kind of connecting the dots and being like, wait a minute, this is something I'm really good at, and actually like they need to look at it through a different lens because maybe like I'm I'll speak to like my childhood and like I was told to like you got to be a doctor, like that's how you help people, Like like that's how you're able to change individuals' lives, and like literally you're saving people.
But like and then five year old Matt was like, no, I'm gonna become a podcaster. That's not a real job. It doesn't even exist yet.
But but yeah, talk to us about that, because I think a lot of folks might sort of fall back on the crush and they're like, well, yeah, I'm good at these things over here, but like nobody really cares about that, or how is that actually going to lead to a successful business. When I think that you could encourage folks to be like no, no, no, no, lean into that.
Honestly, if you're anything like me, if you're good at it, I'm going to become passionate about it because I'm good at this and that feels good. Yeah, it feels good to be good at something. It feels good to be like an expert at something. So I don't understand when someone's really good at something and they're like, no, I don't want to do it. I want to do something else.
That's just not smart. I say, lean into it. It should be good, Like you're you're really good at something that's awesome and that's amazing and you can make money at it. Yeah, definitely lean into it. That would just be the smartest thing.
I think that's a good a good point. When you're really confident in something, you can turn into greatness, and that greatness is in and of itself, can be fulfilling. You talk about in your book the power of saying what you want out loud, especially in front of others. So not just even like saying it to yourself in a mirror, but saying this is what I'm gonna do, this is what I want, this is where I'm heading. What does What's why?
Is that powerful?
It holds you accountable, It holds it. It's something about saying it out loud and it makes you. It's a very vulnerable experience, especially for someone like me, because now I'm like, okay, I have to do it. I mentioned it to this person and now there's like someone else holding me accountable for it, and sometimes that's the push you need.
It's Yeah, it's like publicizing, Hey, I'm if you're in your mind, you're like, I'm gonna try to run a marathon next year. But if you tell five friends and you know, maybe post that on Facebook or something like that.
They're and be like, so what about that marathon that you said someone.
And you're gonna be like still on the couch. You raped that thing up quick.
Yeah, like don't keep everything inside, Like yeah, we all have our little like you know, like I want to write a movie, Like one day I'll write a movie, but saying it out loud and holding yeah, and I like the idea of like holding it up multiple people accountable, Like this is what I want to do. Because your friends will help you, your circle will help you, will help you hopefully. So yeah, things a good idea.
Uh, talk to us about your story specifically. I mean you started out there on Instagram, but then I mean you you still are all on Instagram and you've got like millions of followers. I'm on there, but you you scaled beyond that. Can you kind of explain how that all worked out?
I got. I mean, with Instagram, you're of course getting exposure. That's where everyone's finding you. I mean, that's the great thing about the Internet. So I was lucky to have Kim Kardashian and Lizzo and Beyonce make me feel seen. So I've been able to get exposure outside of it, which is smart because the algorithm sucks these days, so it'd be it's great to get exposure outside of social media and Instagram, which I've been able to do.
Yeah, well, so what does that look like then? Because you were doing some deep directed consumer on Instagram? Well, how do you sell products mostly these days and are using that mostly as just marketing now?
Yeah, it's important to always stay active on there. I'm I'm hosted through Shopify, though I'm not just selling on Instagram. That would be terrible, but yeah, it's important for exposure and just all different types of not just Instagram, like I am not. I don't lean on any things specifically, Like I was on LinkedIn the other day, like were how can I advertise on here so everybody can get it? Everybody can get this these ads in this exposure.
Yeah. So okay, so you mentioned Kim Kardashian Ki you want to share that story. I'm sure you're happy that it happened, but oh yeah, yeah, kind of walk us through that entire story.
You know, I saw her in a dress that looked like mine. See, I sell basics. If you go to my site, it's it's tough because my stuff is basics, it's like just a plain white dress, so it's hard for me to tell if someone's wearing my stuff. So when I saw it, I was like, wait a minute, either this lady took my dress or she's wearing my dress.
It's like it kind of looks like mine, but I'm not totally sure.
Let me make sure.
So and I've heard this she influences a lot of people that I don't know, Maybe she gets a lot of follows, she might be kind of famous.
Yeah, like maybe like this could probably be a big deal, So let me do my research first, and I did, and she actually at that time, she just was purchasing herself, like she she bought that dress and she wore it, and that just kind of took babes to a whole different other level. At first, I was caught in denial, because that's what happens if you've been through a lot of trauma and you feel like, you know, the jig is up, like no way, no way, that's my dress.
But after it was yeah, definitely was an exciting moment.
You said you're in denial, Like essentially, was that like self preservation? Like was that you basically not trying to get your hopes up.
Yeah, yeah, because I didn't want that was gonna be too much like like is at some point, I'm like, let me just not get my hopes up, let me do all of my research, because there was like a little nervous feeling because what if I announce that this is my dress and she comes out and she's like, it's not your dress, You're stupid, Like how embarrassing would that be? So yeah, I did. I didn't want to get my hopes up. I definitely did all of my research.
And she confirmed that she bought it, and she bought a bunch of other things after that. So that's a great moment.
I feel like that'd be the equivalent of like Warren Buffett listening to our podcast. You know, if we found that out, we would tout that listen to these two guys. Yeah, I mean, he never will, that will never happen, but if it did, that would be great. One of the And you've got all these gems in this book when it comes to kind of how people should think about
getting a business off the ground. You're right about focusing on effectiveness not efficiency, and I think sometimes business owners it's like, let me be as efficient as possible, and maybe we miss out on thinking about that all important necessity of being effective in our mission. So yeah, help me think through that dichotomy and how people should pursue being effective when they launch a business.
People overthink the more I think that people over overthink a lot of things when it comes to business. It's just really it's as simple as do you have a product that other people want? And can you make a sell? There's like a lot of I don't know if this is answering your question, but this is just like my just my initial response to what you're saying, is it working? Can you? Like I always go back to Charck tank w or Kevin is like, do you need to take it to the back and shoot it? Like? Is it
a product that's going to sell? Or is it not? Are we going to continue to like put a bunch of time in it or can we alter or adapt or sell this thing? Differently? I think there's a lot of overthinking involved when it comes to business, and I wish there was less of it.
That kind of makes sense so too, because you know a lot of folks who think that they can start a successful business they're pretty smart folks, which means they're probably pretty good at analyzing things, but maybe they're over analyzing.
How do you know if you have a seat of a good idea by the way, Sierra, and you're like it just needs iteration to be effective, or or if you do need to take it back to the back and shoot it. If you're like this is just trash.
It's tough because a lot of people are selling products on the internet right and sometimes you can be seen or not seen, and sometimes that can affect your confidence. It can make you feel like you're doing something wrong and that is completely incorrect. And sometimes you're right. No one wants it, and I think that you just have to if you are a smart individual and you're asking people besides the people that love you then that support everything that you do, is this a good idea? Would
you buy it? Are you actually getting a sell I say, within the first year, or is this just something that you're going to continue to you know, put a lot of money in, a lot of time in and it's never gonna work. It's a tricky thing. I would never tell anybody to just like quit, but you definitely need to be more aware and see if there's an actual customer for what you're trying to do.
Yeah, I think there's a balance to strike there, because if you know you've got good taste and something's maybe not catching right away, you want to continue to fund it, right like, you're going to keep pumping money into it even though it might be a struggling small business. But at a certain point you might have to throw in the towel. How does someone try to figure out where they are within that like on that time continuum.
If it were me and I was starting a whole other business now that I wasn't completely sure about I, I try to sell it every way possible before I quit, because I'm not a quitter. I'm like, you know what, this is a good idea. Let me. I'm not going to put loads of money into it if it's not working, but I'm going to try my best to either. Also, how I'm selling, how I'm presenting it to the world. Maybe they don't like it this price point, maybe they don't like it with this color. I would try any
and everything before I'd given a chout. It's hard for me to quit, and it's hard for me to tell someone to quit. But you know, you know, deep down if this is just good to you or good to other people. So that's like we all know.
Okay, so you are your CEO, you found out a business. The one thing though, that's just inevitably true about humans and success is that we need other people to help launch us to success, right, whether it is somebody wearing your line, customer supporting you, you know, other people getting
the word out. We typically think of the phrase using people as a bad thing, but you've got a whole chapter on the benefits of using people, like kind of like the way you talk about it, can you kind of what you mean by that?
Uh? At face value? I mean, yeah, using people sounds bad, but it's it's necessary. I didn't really know how necessary it was until the first time I got used. You know, I'm in La It's like what can you do for me? Type city? Like what do you do? And what do you do? And it can come off in a bad way to some people that don't live here, but I've learned that that's just the way that you succeed. You have to use people to get ahead. They're a part
of your resources. So using people but not being an a whole about it like letting them know first of all, these are my intentions, Like let's trade, Like what can you do for me? Well, I can do this for you. So I think we just need to take the badness out of that and make it work for us.
That sounds like bartering or yeah, or I mean it sounds like it's like business. I mean like more of like a is that more of taken like a business mindset towards Yeah, if you don't.
Have yeah, if you don't have resources, but you have friends or people around you, those are your resources, You're I mean, it's not it's just about not being a whole about it and making it mutually beneficial.
Sounds just resourceful too, right, because if I like this and you've got that, like, hey, let's make a trade. And that's how before the invention of money, that's how the world used to work. Like you've got a cow, I've got four pigs. Yeah literally, yeah, I'd love some bacon.
Like that's like I love that.
That's just how things function, and so let's do that in business. You've got this skill and that's another great way with very little money to help get your thing off the you know, the drawing room floor to say, oh, listen, hey, you've you're great at social media. I'm great at this. What if we like swap talents for a second. I help you build your business and you help me build mine, and then and you just never know that network can be so invaluable and could kick in at a later date as well.
People are really willing to like other people that are struggling if you just talk to them, like, hey, if you're just open about it, because I've been I've been used in a way that the person wasn't open and I'm like, wait a minute, I didn't get anything out of this. That doesn't feel good. But if you talk to someone and say hey, like I'm struggling, like I see that you have a following. I don't have a following, but this is what I can do to help you.
Or you know, I could teach you graphic design, or I feel like you could have better photoshopping skills and I have those skills. So it's just about being upfront.
It's like just another way to provide value, but to gain some value at the same time. Or we've got a few more questions we want to get to with you, Sira, and in particularly You've got like an interesting thought process on documenting your failures. We'll talk about that and more right after this.
We are back from the break and again we're talking with founder and CEO of Babes, Sierra Rogers, and Sirah. Like I'm thinking back to earlier on you're talking about how like you know what I'm gonna fly for his class, But you can't spend in all the different areas of life. You got to you kind of have to be smart with your money. You say that you're addicted to getting things for free. This is the point from your book. You say that spending money is like rubbing sandpaper on
your skin. And so I guess I'm curious if running a successful business is made spending money a little bit easier, Like do you are you able to kind of see it through more of that you know, business sort of lens where you're like, okay, this is going to allow me to experience this. Do you look at it more methodically? Do you look at it more just as numbers? Or do you still feel kind of the Is it still painful for you to spend some money?
Sometimes it's painful. I don't I don't love it, so it has to make sense. Even my my assistant, she's like, yeah, you have to, like we have to like get better this or like better ink, And I'm like, yeah, but like but this ink is working. Uh, it just has to make sense. I pay a lot of attention to it. I pay a lot of attention to my money and what goes in and out. That's just like how I'm built because I didn't have money for so long, so it's still a very uncomfortable thing in order for me
to spend money. It just has to make sense.
That's as an individual and as a business. Are you paying attention to like the incoming and outgoing all the time. Do you feel like maybe you're too focused on that or do you feel like it's a it's a healthy balance.
I think it's a healthy balance. My sister would disagree with you. She's like, Cere, you made it stop being cheap, And I'm like, yeah, but we don't have to, you know, Like I'm always like what can I get? What can I get a discut on? Like where's where are the coupons? I love the coupons. Where are the deals? So it's hard for me to pay, like when it comes to
full price, it has to be freaking worth it. For me, I'm always going to try to look for either a way to save money or it needs to make complete sense.
Well, I like that even after you've made it, you're still a woman after our own heart. You're still trying to send money wherever you can. One of the things you mentioned or you recommend folks in the book is to write down a list of their failures, which sounds really masochistic, like it sounds like something I don't want to do, not really interested in, but you told me to do it, so maybe I have to Why Why is that a helpful exercise for people, especially people who want to build a business.
I think because you're gonna I don't want to say you're gonna fall at some point. Entrepreneurship is tricky, you know, life tricky. There's going to be a lot of ups and downs. But we need to we need to find things to learn from and that's what that is. Those are cheekos like that's like what I'm not going to do again, and it's a reminder all the time, and I'm never going to go that route because that didn't work. And I think that's important not to ignore them. But
to see like why did I do that? And if I did, how can I avoid doing it again.
I think there are a lot of folks might be listening, and they're hopefully they're they've been inspired by our conversation with you, Sierra, and maybe they're thinking like, Okay, I know I want to start something, not really sure what, but they know they just know that they don't want to keep doing what they're doing now. And you one of the things you've seen in your book is that you don't need much to build success if you have
imagination and determination. We've talked a lot about determination. You're a realist. You're talking about the different goals, financial goals that you had. You know, it's different points in time. You're kind of backed up against the wall. But let's talk about imagination because I feel like for a lot of folks that feels like something that they may be exhausted in childhood. They don't have that maybe that creative
spark or maybe it's all but snuffed out. Do you have any tips for folks to kind of tap into that creative side as fully grown adults.
I think you have your unique point of view in the world, like I wish I could talk to everyone and get all the business ideas because I know they're in you. I think about like, dang, I should have came up with Uber, I should have come up with
like postmates. You know, these ideas were simple in the beginning, like oh, like we just need transportation, like easier transportation, or we need a way to get our food, Like you really have it in you, if you have a unique point of view in the world, you really just have to dig in there and grab it out. Make sure there's an open space in the market, make sure it's something that you can sell, and boom, you have a business. Please tell me about it because I want to help you do it.
Yeah.
Yeah, Are you actively kind of coming up with ideas for new businesses? Are you writing things down or are you bouncing ideas off other people? Like what does that look like for you? And if someone's out there like trying to figure out, oh what is that? What is that spark? What is that seed of an idea that might make sense? Is there any like trick to unearthing it from your brain?
Problems like Hey, I don't like this, I don't like how this is going, and there needs to be a better way of doing it. Yeah, and which we run into all the time, and people just we don't have that extra step of like me being the one that fixes it instead of saying I wish this were fixed. That's really what it is.
So you want somebody else out there to do it. But if you see the problem, you can be the person to help fix that problem and make some money at the same time.
Right, And it can look crappy at first, as long as you come up with the idea like be first, don't tell too many people about it because somebody may still try to patent it the best that you can. But yeah, you can be the fixer. That's really what it's all about, is you taking a step and fixing the problems that you see.
Last thing, you tell people to ask themselves, what are you passively convincing yourself you're not capable of? And I think that is like one of the most interesting lines because I think you're right. I think it is. It's not even this active thing like where we're telling ourselves that we can't do it, or we don't have any good ideas, or we can't build a business, and so we never even get up off the mat to start to think about what we could do, what we could build.
How do we overcome that? Like what how can we stop being our own worst enemy in kind of this uh everyday way that we do it where we just fail to even go there practice.
I still struggle with it. I don't know if it ever really goes away. It hasn't gone away like completely for me, but constantly reminding myself that you you can be your worst your own worst enemy and adding that on top of life already being hard doesn't make sense. You know yourself, You know that you know what you're doing to, like if it's fear based, if you're just insecure, or you feel like, uh, you're watching a lot of other people, you're comparing yourself to, like whatever the situation
may be. Yeah, it definitely can become a passive thing and you're doing it to yourself. Once you realize you're doing it to yourself, then just change it because you're you're the one doing it.
Yeah, I think And what you said there too about practicing it makes me think back to when you first started and you made your first twenty dollars and so then you were able to kind of reinvest that, like it builds on itself. It makes me think about how we talk about investing and how it's like a snowball. It just it compounds, it builds, and so does your experience as well as you. As you have some of these wins, you can add to those wins and continue to grow it. But Sierra, this is it's been a
fun cond of working folks. Learn more about the outsider advantage and learn more about you and your brains.
Oh, you can go to Sierra Rodgers dot com and everything's there.
Awesome.
Great, we'll link to that in the show notes as well. Sierra, thank you so much for joining us today on the show.
Thank you so much for having me.
All Right, well, Joe, I think this is the first time we've ever had a fashion designer on the show, someone who you considers themselves themselves a stylist. Do you consider your style yourself a stylist?
Joe, I'm well styled that I'll.
Go that far. Yeah, this is a great conversation with we, Sierra Rogers, as we talked about entrepreneurship basically, but uh, yeah, what was Do you have a big takeaway from our conversation.
I feel like there's a lot of kind of avenues we could explore here. There's just a lot of little things that just are really big things ultimately, but the way she talks about them sometimes it feels like so down to earth and approachable. I think one of the things she said, and I think it's true, like lots of times we over complicate starting a business. I like how she talked about being able to do it with
a little money and how that breaths creativity. But one of the things she said was she said, people overthink this, like do you have a product that people want? And I think that is ultimately the heart of starting a business. Is the thing you plan on creating. Is it something other people like? Is it going to fix the problem they have? Is it going to be something that people want to pay money for, will line up for, want to gladly joyfully hand over their time or their money
or whatever to partake in. Makes you think about when we started talking about launching this podcast, or like, oh, there's a lot of money podcasts, and there's a lot of podcasts, and guess what, there's more podcasts than ever out there. Hopefully what we're creating is different and it's providing enough value. I mean, I think it is for our listeners, so they want to stick around and partake.
And I think that is at the crux of what makes any business successful is making sure you know your customer and you're giving them what is good for them, what they're what they're.
Interested in, Yeah, and going with what works, like is this a good product and at the end of the day, like that ultimately decides whether or not folks are willing to pay for it.
Also doesn't have to be complex. She was selling thristore clothes there were jazzed uff a little and turned it into a fairly big business.
So yeah, the other part of her story that was compelling to me was the fact that she was just a realist. She even said that at one point, she's like, I'm a realist. It was necessary for me to make this thing work because I had different financial goals that I wanted to achieve. And even it comes to like her spending money, whether it's in her personal life or on the business, she said that it's got to make sense.
And so I just like that practical approach to how it is that she sees life, because like for someone that doesn't know her or they're you know, as you're looking at someone from Afar, you were thinking, Oh, my gosh, they have it all figured out, or oh, there's such a dreamer. Whoever thought that you could be someone that creates a line of women's clothing like that? But at the end of the day, she's just like you said.
It kind of dovetails with what you said, but she's just making something that's good and she's trying to pay the bills. And I don't know, there's a simplicity to starting your own business, and oftentimes it kind of comes down to the practical, like am I able to pay the bills? Am I able to pay rent? Can I support my family by creating by embarking on this endeavor? That sort of thing.
I think the other thing, too, is when you aren't having to allocate a ton of financial resources to the business that you're trying to launch, the stakes are low, right, And so she talks about documenting your failures, but hey, guess what, You might fail, but you fail small, and so you fail in a way that it's not going to break the bank and it's not going to ruin
your family. It could be something that you launch on the side while you're doing something else, And I think that's part of the brilliant too, of kind of starting a small business and doing it while you've got your main gig still intact.
That's the way to do it, man.
Yeah, it's a great way to try to.
Yeah, let's introduce the beer that you and I enjoyed during this episode. This was a I don't know how to say this because this is a Ukrainian beer, but it's fit lay or spiddle. Yeah, I think it's fiddle. The I t l e. It's fiddle. This is a beer by Obolon Brewery. Well your what are your thoughts?
No, I don't have great thoughts, Matt. This so this beer we're drinking the last of our not so great beers, our crap beers, not craft beers, because of how things ended with our daffy challenge to raise money for some of our favorite nonprofits. And it's it's to me this had a really metallic vibe. I feel for the people of Ukraine, not because they have to drink this beer, because everything else is going on over there, of course,
but this beer. Saying this beer doesn't help, No, it doesn't help it.
I didn't think it was all that bad. This it's funny because some of the quote unquote crap beers.
Carlsberg was better than this.
Oh yeah, yeah, because Karlsburg was nice and clean. This did drink a little bit more like what was the one from from Aldi? The other? Oh yeah, Pilsner. It was bad that the I don't know, but both of them, I mean, they're not terrible, but they're the kind of beer that you could enjoy after kind of mowing the law and working out in the working out in the sun a Saturday afternoon, that kind of thing.
All right, yeah, it might be all it's qualified for.
Okay, that being said, this is the last of these beers, so I'm looking forward to getting back to the really good stuff come next Monday. Buddy me too.
All right, that's gonna do it for this episode. We'll we'll put all the necessary links up in our show notes up at howdmoney dot com, including a link to Sierra's new book. But Matt, until next time, best Friends Out and best Friends Out.
Man.
I don't know, maybe we'll kind of slide this into at the end of the episodes here, but you talking about your story and kind of how the book shifted
to kind of more of like a memoir. How important do you think that is to kind of have like an interesting narrative, like a like a compelling personal story like that, because it makes me think about like artists, because you might have, on one hand, an artist that's just like the most proficient excellent at their craft, Like nobody has ever created art as good as this person,
whether it's painting or ceramics or whatever. But if there's no story behind it, it can be difficult sometimes to gain traction, as opposed to like some street folk artists that I'm drawn to that has a really cool story. Is he the most accomplished? I don't know if you could you could say that, but he's a really interesting person. Yeah, what are your thoughts there on kind of like that personal narrative and art or even just a business and where we were selling products or a service.
I think you want to there's so many people selling things all the time, so it's nice to clear the room. You really want to root for someone, was what I've learned. I would have loved to do a business book because I love businessook like just give me the tips, But people it's like why trust me, like just looking at me, like why would you buy a business book for me. So the story was was needed for you to root for me and see where I came from and then
trust what I'm saying. That's more important these days because we're just getting sold to so many there's so many of everything, so we have to like clear the.
Air a little bit and people want to buy a story. People want to whether it's a book, whether it's clothing items, whatever it is. It's it's that's what made like Tom so successful early on, Right, it was like to buy one get one shoe thing and people were.
Like, oh, this has never heard of that before.
It's just a shoe. It's a mission, right, And I think people really gravitate towards that. They're attracted to that, and so yeah, I think that kind of story combined with you know, the practical business tactics is that's a good combo