Welcome to Out of Money. I'm Joel, I am Matt. Today we're talking REFI Revival, Delay, Pay Disaster, and Landline.
Love Landlines Baby.
Yeah, you know we're gonna get nostalgic. I'm not talking about love Line. The Doctor Drue show that I never watched. That was him and Adam Krolla.
Didn't they have that? It was?
It was they were on n TV back in the day. Yeah, yeah, I don't remember that one take.
It wasn't. Well, that was a cultural moment. I feel like, well, there are certain things. I was just talking to a friend.
I don't really watch it, but I know it exacts about other.
Shows on MTV, like MTV Unplugged, like there are certain concerts, certain sessions that stand out in my mind. I don't remember the love Line.
Sorry.
MTV was such a culture generator and it's not it was. You think the Celebrity Death Mat exhibit showed about my ride road Rules. Yeah, I think that's basically what is the first?
Reality TV fueled my desire to want to go see the world to a certain extent. But no, we will talk about ways to get in touch with other people, but in an affordable way. This is our Friday flight. We're going to cover the top stories, the ones that impact your personal finance is the most.
Speaking of getting in touch with other people, Matt, we got text messages this week, you and I did.
From talk about the coin Base. Yeah.
I'm wondering if other listeners got this text because you and I both got it, which is rare that you know, you and I both get the same scam text message. And it was like, hey, your coin boat based account, someone try to log in from this android phone in Sydney, Australia or something like that. If this wasn't you call this number? Of course, I don't have a coinbase account.
Complete attempt to get me to call a number, so you weren't at all concerned, correct, Okay, but I'm sure somebody, well here's a coinbas account might be freaked out.
Here's the deal. So, as you're saying and that, I put my hand up and I pointed to myself because I've got a coin Base account. I'm not that being said, I wasn't too concerned because I have a small a smaller amount of money over there, only a couple of mill in, just a few couple ten thousand. But okay, so here, okay, so here's the real question. Then what if you had gotten a text from a company or brokerage that you do do business with. Let's say it
was Fidelity reaching out to you R Vanguard. These are two brokerages.
Never call that, even if you have a relationship with that business, Never call them over. Go to the website, login yourself.
But do you think you would have felt emotionally charged a little bit more? Because coinbas You're like, Okay, that's like telling me that my payless credit card, you know, payless to the shoe store. That's like, that's where I get all my shoes. Basically, it was the equivalent of that for you because it's not not even on your radar.
But for me, I felt it a little bit. I thought, But if it was like your Huckberry account's been compromised, not that you would have been like, oh my Bucks.
By the way, if they don't call them Huckbucks, they or they're missing out. We should be on their marketing team. But yeah, I think those are the instances they are hoping to find folks who actually do have those accounts, And so yeah, like, do you think you would feel a little bit differently? If you had received a text message saying, hey your Fidelity, Hey, there is an outgoing wire from your Fidelity account. Yeah, if that wasn't you call us number now to let us know that that is not legit.
I would have for a split second, But then I would have known, I know the rules because we do
this for a living and we talk about it. I would have known to go to my account to log in into check and to not call a number that someone sends me on a text message, and also realize the Fidelity isn't sending These companies are not sending text Typically, they might send you a verification code via text when you're trying to log in, but they're not going to send you a text with the phone number to call.
That's just not how it works, That's true. It's like the IRS scams, like very very very similar, where the IRS sends paper notices in the mail exactly right, So if everybody deals.
With the IRS, so that's an instance where it might seem a little more plausible, right, Yeah. I was just trying to paint a situation because like if what if you were like out with your family eating dinner at a restaurant, you got the kids, you're having a great time and you happen to look down and you see a text and you don't have the ability to immediately hop on the computer or to log into your account.
That I think that's the kind of situation that folks might find themselves in where they are a little tempted, but like you said, don't do it, don't do it.
That's where they get people too, with utility scams, like small business owners and they're like, hey, we're gonna shut your electricity off if you don't pay this fine and you have to do it with a one of those you know, gift cards, prepaid gift cards, and man, your business like people are people are going to come into lights out, like your restaurant is shut down for the evening if you don't pay up. And it feels like this, like because they put a time limit on it, and
there's a necessity, a quick necessity. You don't have time to log in, check your account and actually verify the emotional state.
Yeah, you're a heightened emotional state and you might do anything, but don't actually call the number that you're texting. But Joels, this is something that we haven't said in a long time. A lot of the home owners out there are refinancing. There's been a pretty significant increase in refis new mortgage applications over the past year. Interest rates have ticked down slightly, and folks who bought when rates were like peaking above seven percent, they are seeing rates now in the low sixes.
They're ready to pounce.
Even in this just last week or so, we've seen a bunch of bunch more refis than we've had in recent memory.
And adjustable rate mortgages, so arms, they are becoming even more popular as well. So roughly ten percent of all refis right now are arms, and this is in part because they've I think they've sort of lost their Great Recession stigma, where back then it's just like, well, you'd be a fool to go with an ARM when you're at like historical lows. We haven't been at historical lows these days.
Well, And like we've talked about arms, were there were a lot worse ARM product ARM products back then, and they've improved significantly. And there are some arms, like we talked about our credit union, a fifteen year arm where the interest rate only changes one time, and so for a lot of people giving that lower rate makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, well, and with rates likely to drop an arm might you know, might mean less need to refinance in the future as well. That being said, you are subject to greater levels of risk if they don't if we don't see seat rates take down. But still I think a question worth asking, as folks are I don't know, there's a lot of it seems like there's a whole lot of refinancing chum in the water. So I think some folks might be saying, well, how often should I
be refinancing? Because oftentimes it's not like a helock. A helock is free, that's an easy way. The race is going down. If the rates are going down.
Yeah, but when it comes to refinancing, they cost some money.
That's exactly right.
So you know, I think you and I, Matt, we used to kind of say, well, you probably need to drop your interest rate by about a point to make it worth it. But really that's a rule of thumb, and it's hard to say that. That's not like a hard and fast rule because it depends on a lot
of things. Right, Either might will to refit into a lower rate, even if you can't quite save a full point or you might want to hold off even longer in hope, in hopes the rates go down even further so that you're not refinancing multiple times, because it costs money to refinance so much. Really depends even on how long you plan to stay in the home, because if you're like I'm probably only gonna be here for a
few more years, refinancing probably doesn't make much sense. And the key I think is to figure out your break even point. So will the refinance save you enough in monthly payments to pay for those closing costs in less than two years. If so, it might make sense. Even still, you might want to chill for just a second and see if rates drop a little bit lower so that you're not kicking yourself wishing you'd waited four or five months to refinance. And then if a refinance is right
for you, shop around. That is super key because you can save maybe an extra eighth of a point quarter point. Compare apples to apples and see what other lenders are offering so that you get the best rate around, not just a better rate.
Yeah, yeah, I'm with you all back you on the two years two years time frame, because I think.
Outside of that so much of your life.
Can change, right, Like you're just guaranteeing yourself even less time, or you're guaranteeing yourself that you've got to stay in the house for a longer period of time, and like in two years, man, I don't know. I think a lot of individuals can find their life situation changing pretty drastically within that sort of time period. Let's talk about investing, because.
Even better if you can make it payoff in a shorter time.
Oh yeah, even sooner. Yeah, it makes it even more of a slam dunk decision. But the irs, man, they have released updated retirement account contribution limits for twenty twenty six. Que the air horns. I'm all about this, man. Next year, we're gonna be able to stick more money into our workplace retirement accounts in four one ks if we're so inclined.
Four one K and four or three B contribution limits have been bumped up by one thousand bucks, so it's going from twenty three five hundred dollars to twenty four thousand, five hundred dollars. The additional and roth IRA max contributions have gone up from seven thousand dollars bumped up five hundred bucks to seventy five hundred dollars. HSA limits went up as well by a couple hundred bucks for couples,
And this is great news. And so I think one of the reasons I'm so excited about this is because I think what this demonstrates to me is that there is a shift in our culture and the expectations surrounding a retirement.
Right.
And so back in the day, there were many more workplace, workplace sponsored retirement plans, government sponsored pensions. Right, So like you, you're talking about more defined benefit plans as opposed to defined contribution plans. And by seeing this uptick, it shifts the responsibility slightly to individuals and companies as well, right, because we are seeing the uptick when it comes to four to one k's as well. But you might say, well,
it also has to do with inflation. And I got curious and dug into the numbers a little bit, and I was super shock to see that the limits back in nineteen seventy five, let's say, on an IRA, was fifteen hundred bucks. It took twenty five years to get from nineteen seventy five the fifteen hundred dollar limit there to the year two thousand, where the limit increased only
by guess one thousand dollars five hundred bucks. Wow, it was only two thousand dollars in the year two thousand, and then between two thousand and twenty twenty five it increased from two thousand to seven thousand dollars, a massive uptick, right, And if you're only looking at inflation, you might say, well, wait a minute, guess what we had a lot of
between nineteen seventy five and the year two thousand. We had a ton of inflation and very little inflation between the year twenty twenty I'm sorry, between twenty and twenty twenty five.
And so my hypothesis is that what COVID blip in there.
Well, yeah, but what took place more within that period of time was just an expectation as to who was a little bit more responsible for their retirement dollars. It's just something I can totally get excited and be appreciative of.
So, if you're looking to figure out how much should you should contribute to your IRA every single month in order to max that puppy out, Matt the math says six hundred and twenty five dollars a month.
Ooh, I like it.
Yeah, so nice. Nice.
Need even start setting that John calen adopilot come January and then you'll you'll max it out by the end of the year. So we would love ideally everyone listening to the sound of our voices to max out there Rath every single year. The other thing they got update because everything's getting updated by the IRS this time of year, was the capital gains taxes and at what levels you pay zero, fifteen and twenty percent?
And I didn't see that.
You can make almost one hundred thousand dollars a year now and pays zero in capital gains taxes.
Used to be like was it ninety two thousand?
And I think it's like ninety eight nine hundred? Al right, I should have written still never down. Still glad to see that increases.
So all the frugal, frugal early retirees out there, they're fist pumping your.
Taxbile broker's account can be away to you might be able to avoid the fifteen percent capital gains tax if you're smart, If you're savvy, So should you stick more in a low cost s and P five hundred ETF because you have the ability to stock more into those workplace retirement accounts. Historically it's been a pretty fantastic choice. Even recent history has proven it to be a super smart bet. Returns this year actually set to crush every projection from Wall Street firms for the third year in
a row. Met Those projections continue to fail consistently, often on the underside, sometimes on the over. But the experts in this CNBC article experts, I should probably put that in quotation marks. They're saying that this strategy, it's not looking as smart moving forward, is not diversified enough, they say.
And to be honest, I think these these experts make some reasonable points, Like one is that while you own five hundred companies in an S and P five hundred fund, your eggs are in fewer baskets to a certain extent because or at least maybe like a couple of your eggs are gargantuan and a lot of the other ones are super duper tiny because of the massive market cap that AI companies like Microsoft and then Video hold, So just a few stocks really make up something like twenty
percent of your SP five hundred fund, which.
Those max seven eggs are quite large. The rest of them are like little jelly bean eggs. It feels a little risky.
It does feel a little risky, So I get that, And then you know, when returns have been significantly higher than average for many years now, a reversion to the mean is likely. Like when you've seen outsize gains and that historical average is something closer to ten percent. Well, what should you expect in coming years? Well, you should probably expect the average to level out at some point. So should you change your strategy? This is something we
talk about regularly here on the show. We talked about it with a Nick Majulia article that was written not too long ago.
I think so much.
Depends on your goals, and it depends on your risk tolerance. Those are the things you have to assess. So for some people out there, they might say, I am too nervous. I can't stomach the potential volatility coming down the pike. I should make some changes. You should know yourself emotionally. There are other solid approaches, but I think to investing. But a knee jerk response to articles like this, that's the thing we want people to avoid. That would be on wise.
Yeah, And in addition to that, it's been a glorious time to be a diversified investor, but it could get a little harder in the coming years. And also, so like you're saying, just don't expect these incredible returns in perpetuity. But I wanted to talk about target date funds because they can be a really good choice for many folks out there if you are looking for more bond exposure,
if you're looking for more international exposure. The abilit want to be so us heavy, and yeah, I get that desire that there's a decent argument to be made there, but one of the things we might be seeing is private equity it might be forcing its way into target date funds soon, which is no bueno. And so instead of just having the option to invest in alternative assets, you would now be forced to own them in various target date funds that you might own if companies like
Blackstone and Apollo have their way. There's conversations evidently that are happening on Wall Street about including those in some of these target day funds.
And you and I we've kind of talked about how we don't like the idea of even alternative assets being widely available in retirement accounts gives people maybe too much choice, and choice it's not even really helpful for the average investor. I think it feels even more nefarious to have them inside of a target date fund because target date funds feel like this set and forget its strategy for a lot of people. Yeah, and to have you who don't
those the average investor doesn't need exposure to alternatives. If they end up in target date funds, I think they actually could ruin something that serves a lot of people.
Pretty well. Sure, Yeah, I don't know if I would agree with you and say there's too much freedom. I think you can. You should be allowed to invest.
The paradox of choice whatever anti Aldy.
Sure, But that being said, if you want the choice, there is still another store that you can go to. It's not forcing everybody. I don't want to force everyone to go to ALDI because I think that they should limit their choices, but you should have the option to.
But I do agree with you one hundred percent. The fact that if there's private equity getting sort of like shoved into this porkage, but they're still maintaining the target date fund, That's where it feels it just backwards, you know, like you know, like this feels like an instance to where like like oil and water doesn't mix, and it feels like they're trying to mix the two. Things like target date funds are known for being affordable, relatively affordable private equity, isn't.
You can see the expense ratios taking up on some of those funds.
Yeah, yeah, it does not seem like it's a good match. And so that's an instance. It's just something that we're going to keep an eye on because hopefully this is an instance where we see some of the better brokerages out there, like Vanguard and Fidelity holding the line. But if they don't, we're going to call them out on it. Well, but we will talk about it. And it just feels like another way for private equity to get their hands
on your dollars. Like it used to be the rock star fund managers it's like, Oh, that's how we can that's how we can garner more in expenses. Now it feels like private equity. It's like, oh, you need to pay more for access to this opportunity to potentially experience outside returns, just a higher.
Level of risk, or at least they had to go court accredited investors, people who had enough income or enough net worth and say and sell them on investing in their scheme. And now if they're inside of target date funds, they're getting every day people to invest in their schemes instead of having to sell the people who really do have the investing knowledge and ability. Because I don't feel bad for a credit I mean I feel bad sometimes, but I don't feel too bad for credit investors who
lose money because they invested in alternative investments. That's something that I got into with eyes wide open, play at your own risk. Every day investors who kind of unwinningly are investing in alternative assets. That feels a little different to me. Let's talk about the comeback of student loan payments. Matt that the of those have been widely documented and they have put many Americans between what I would call maybe a rock and a hard place, choosing between paying
your student loans and your credit cards. It's not easy, right if you have limited funds. And so there was this new TransUnion survey which found that borrowers are ranking their student loan payment ahead of their credit card payment, which makes sense because the stakes are higher with that student loan, especially given the wage garnishment threats that are
likely to come about the administration is set. We're even going to hay take money out of your tax refund if you're not paying your student loans, So the money's gonna come out and find its way to pay off your student loan servicer. Either way, it sounds like I guess if you find yourself in the position where you can't pay your debts, it's crucial to talk to a professional at like a nonprofit. We would suggest a place like Money Management International. They have the power to help
where other folks truly can't. There are a lot of people purporting saying that they can help you if you are in debt that's over your head. Most of them will take your money and not do much help. But the nonprofits are the way to go. Yeah, and actually, Matt, I've heard from the folks that MMI recently, and they told me that AI many of those AI systems like chatchpt are recommending MMI. So, hey, chat GPT is getting
it right. People are going there and droves because they're turning too AI for some of these questions.
Yeah to chat GPT on that one. Hey, it's not all badge, all right. Although I've got a story here that actually points to ALI use in a more inifarious way. We're sadly seeing a rise in debt collection lawsuits right now. There's some experts who are interviewed by the Times, and they suggest that AI has made it easier for companies out there to file a large number of these suits
and courts around the country. There's not hard evidence, but they're pointing, certainly pointing to correlation, and they're hoping the research will follow soon. But debt collectors are often able to buy pass due debt for pennies on the dollar. They file a suit and they get a judgment. This is why it is so crucial to respond to any legal notice that comes your way, even if you don't think you've ever done business with that company, that particular company,
because guess what, well, it's already been sold. That's been what's it called when they when the creditor where they market is something that is not collectible or they think.
It's they write it off basically and they sell it for again. The company contacting you could be the most likely the debt collection agency. And yeah, you didn't new business with them. You did this with a hospital group who sold this debt to them and that's why they're in possession of that debt. Now, that's why they're reaching out to you, even though you haven't heard their name. Yeah, and which makes it Yeah, I get it's weird as it could.
Be, could be totally legit though, but if you don't even show up to defend yourself, though, you may lose by default. If you do show up, even just being there, the debt collectors, they can easily lose. They had an example of that just because they don't have the right paperwork. They can't support because they're not organized enough. And this happens regularly and they don't have a case because they don't have any evidence. You win and you didn't have
to do much. Yeah, you just have to know your rights. And a lot of this comes down to what the laws are in the state where it is that you reside. Because let's say this does good to court, you're not showing. I mean, they could garnish your wages in some states. They there can like if you're a no show in some states, you can even be arrested. And I don't
think that's likely. And this isn't legal advice because I don't think that they would do that because then you're even less likely to be able to pay fay that debt. Put in my high art. We don't have debtor's prisons, but that is a possibility, So you need to know the laws of your state.
Yeah, we're actually going to talk a little bit more about AI and chatbots in just a bit. But Matt, there was a new story about buy now, Pay later. Let's talk about that one when we get back from the breaks.
All right, buddy, we are back from the break and everyone knows that this is typically What if we switched it up and decided to move the ludicrous headline of the week from our Friday flight? People would revolt? Would they? That's exactly what I was gonna say.
What if we instituted a new segment that was more happy and shiny? Oh you think, like, what were those websites in back in the day and they only had good published good news?
They probably did they fold? Because yeah, unfortunately, yes, yeah, if it doesn't bleed, it doesn't lead. No. The lucris of the ludicrous headline of the Week came from The Times and listener Dan He actually sent this one our away. I think he said he was getting just stressed out, just reading it and so much of.
It, it was tough, man, These individual lives ruined because of buy now, Pay later.
Also, whoever did the photography for the story too, Like they're showing people with all the stuff that they purchased. This is this is a buy now, pay later story, But they're just surrounded by all their stuff and even just being surrounded by that much stuff that you know is financed. I think maybe I started to feel it too, started getting a little sweat eazy. Yeah, But the headline it read they got to live a life of luxury.
Then came the fine print. More folks are they're facing the music after embracing buy now, pay later, full on klarna, after pay their ilk, they are more than happy to oblige with limits that far surpass what most credit card issuers will give you and what seems like a harmless way to buy stuff that you want. Man, they can be far worse if you can't pay the bill. You know, it seems like such an easy, innocent way to do the pay in for it's free and so easy, so
chill well could go wrong. It's such a slippery slope because the interest fees are much worse than credit cards up to thirty six percent they can accrue if you can't make the payments on time, and then the late the late fees they can pile up as well. And I don't want to be those guys, Joel, but we've been we've been warning folks about buy now, pay later, basically since they came on the scene, and it feels like we're this is a case of I told you so.
But I think a lot of it just has to do with the fact that there are folks who just haven't learned their lessons yet when it comes to buy now, pay later, because it's novel, it's new, you know, like it.
Makes sense, it was attractive and that people were like, yeah, I'll give it a shot, whereas like.
Credit cards, they don't feel as attractive anymore. Like people who have used credit cards, I think maybe they've learned their lesson, they've gotten they've gotten burned, right, And so you've got like I'm thinking of the stories have been around for decades. Next, you've got a millennials, older millennials, and they're like, Okay, if they've gotten burned, they noticed it's shy away from that, or they've learned that they
can handle it. Well, that's my hope at least, And it seems like gen Z in particular, they maybe haven't learned that lesson quite as much, and there's more or folks flock into the binyl.
Payment and I hope, I hope that they can learn the lesson the easy way by hearing us rail against the buy now, pay later companies and how nefarious they are. And even though it seems it seems like they're trying to be trying to be helpful, it's a behavioral nightmare for people. So again, a world where you can delay paying for anything human behavior to consume is like kicking into another gear, just causing people to be like give me myself, yeah, I'll take it and lay away. Back
in the day. At least you used to have to like wait to get your item, so you paid the money, are you paid in installments and then finally you got your item at the end of it. But when you get your item first and then you're like, oh, that was easy, I didn't even have to pay for the full price yet, Yeah, let me go do that again, And it just creates a six cycle. At least it's for a lot of people where they buy so much
stuff that they can't afford. It's true, it's tough to watch, and it just I think part of it is like feels like fake money. That's what it feels like when you use buy now, pay later and you just keep buying, but not in like the nick Maduli just keep buying sense of the phrase. And that can wreck your finances, right, That spending hangover can leave this emotional and financial scars for people. And at the end of the day, you limit your choices because you've spent money that you don't have.
It flies in the face of personal finance one oh one. And not to be too drastic, Matt, but this to me kind of feels like we're creating a generation of alcoholics, but binge buyers instead, which is like less stigmatized. I want to add more stigma to the binge buying thing because it's so detrimental to human flourishing and to your ability to have money in the bank account. We've even seen people make it steam like it's empowering, but I
think the opposite is true. By now, paid later is disempowering to individuals.
Yeah, and here's some basic old school advice, just don't buy it if you can't afford it, because unfortunately, we've got one more story that we want to get to where buy now, Pay later has found its way into paying for travel.
The many tentacles of buy nowaylater.
Nerd Wallet they found that one in five travelers are planning to use buy now, pay later to spread out their payments for the next trip, the next vacation that they're looking to take, and almost half of travel providers offer that ability.
Now see it on your friendly Airline website instead of aware Everywhere Airline credit card. You can also pay in easy installments.
Yeah, but of course buying travel via by not pay later, it creates even more problems because if there are issues with your travel itinerary, you're going to have far less recourse. And you know, we're just talking about credit cards. This is an instance where credit cards actually shine because there will rewards and the benefits that you receive, the protections that you receive if that just mentioned trip gets canceled or delayed. You can get rental car insurance, you can
get travel insurance. There are all of these different travel benefits that you receive if you use the right card, especially when it comes to travel. That's one of the still one of the silver linings of credit cards in the travel space, Specifically, if you have a travel card and you are using it for a whole lot of travel, and that is not the case with buy now, pay later.
All you're getting there is just the ability to not pay for it like right then, right, Like you just have the ability to pay for it in the for easy installments, just to.
Delay, that's all. But yeah, you're right. When you use the credit card, there's a whole lot else you get with it. Yeah, we still want you to use it wisely, and we only want you to use it if you have the money in the bank account. We don't want you to go into debt for a trip, whether it's with buy now, pay later or a credit card. Yeah, but the credit card is at least an understandable way to purchase something, and buy now, pay later, to me,
is not Matt. The Washington Post had an article about landlines making the comeback, and at first I was like, what please say so? Partly because land lines can be expensive, like something like thirty to forty bucks a month if you get a landline through the local phone company. I just didn't realize people did that anymore, and if you are, if you do still pay for a landline, strongly reconsider it.
But they've talked about actually a new startup though, is really interesting called tin Can, which is offering eighties looking telephones that run over Wi Fi then cost ten bucks a month, which sounds reasonable. It's got the curly cord and everything. Yes, it does, Oh my gosh.
It's the real question is can you can you get an aftermarket super long curly cord that can stretch all the way across the kitchen? Yes, that's right, that's the eighties.
I'm sure some people are back that I love who are listening to this just don't know what we're talking about. So you should go to that website and.
Check it out. We'll link to it. No, they've watched movies, they if they haven't experienced it themselves, you're.
Probably right and so but tin Can's kind of cool, Like I get what people are going after. They're what they're trying to do is to break the smartphone addiction.
And so if your kid, if you've got a kid who you want to be able to talk to their friends and stuff like that after school, but you're not ready for them to have a smartphone, and not even from a cost perspective, because Matt, you and I we've talked about how cheap it can be, like US Mobile has eight dollars a month plans for like unlimited talk and text and two gigs of data. That's cheaper than
ten can. But it does doesn't matter because for a lot of parents it's more about it's a protectionary mechanism to not bring the smartphone into their lives. And I think something like this could make a lot of sense. Allow your kid to feel like they kind of like we were able to do back in the day in middle school, call our friends and chit chat and stuff, but without some of the downsides of full on smartphone exposure.
Yeah, for that reason, this is an argument I can get behind. This is the case that Jonathan Heights making and the Anxious Generation. If you have a child and you have not yet read that book, I think we would both. Would you recommend it as well? I haven't read it.
You haven't know well, I've listened to him interviewed, you know, you know the Prince. I know the principles and I am pretty darn aligned exactly.
But it's also hard for me to face the idea because the phone, even though it is retro cool looking, it's still seventy five bucks. Yeah, which I'm like, come on, like, I would still rather just put that seventy five bucks towards me upgrading my iPhone and let it one of the kids, you know, be able to use that, like to have their own phone that they can do a Wi Fi based call. But I think there is something.
What is here is the fact that you're kind of encouraging or I guess in this case, you're not giving your kid another option to communicate with your friends other than to talk, which is something that I can totally get behind. I've not thought about that. I've not thought about how when we were literally talking with our friends, there weren't texting, There weren't emojis that were dropping into the text, or dropping the dookie emoji on someone's head
like on the like in the video chat. All these dumb things that can just undermine the quality of the conversation. And it really does make me want to say to our seventh grader the next time that she says, hey, can I get on the phone, because we've got a little dumb down cell phone that we keep in the kitchen when she says, hey, can I get on there?
Because she normally gets on there to check messages, I think I'm going to encourage her and say, hey, you can get on there, but only if you are looking to call on you one of your friends to talk
with them. And maybe this is a conversation I have with other parents too, because I want the kids to be doing that more more of that, because one of the things on the I talks about is asynchronous communication, and so there's something that you lose when you send a message and then you don't have to respond in real time as opposed to the like what you and I are having right here, just the ability to end real time sorry what you say communicate to each other is so important.
Well, it makes me I think, especially for girls in this age, in this age range too, that our oldest where our oldest are, those group texts can feel like like almost like an at home form of bullying. It can be a really tough thing to experience there, some of those girl group chats. I just know from hearing my daughter talk about it and hearing some of the other parents for some of them suck. Yeah, it can be really tough and so having a one on one conversation with a friend feels very different.
You're not gonna get doesn't it nay feel humanizing? Yeah, Like just even talking about it, I can. It just sounds so much more relatable, more humanizing. And that's I think what we're looking and for when it comes to our technology.
And I love the meta thing we're doing right now. We're just talking about talk talking about My son asked me about He literally prompted the conversation about conversations, and I thought it was like, I love having that.
I love having that child.
All right, buddy, we're about to go do He was like, Dad, tell me more about conversations and let's talk about that. And it was like it was super fun, just like what gives a conversation? Meaning he's six and he's asking questions about this man, that's fun. Maybe we should offer one more morning, Matt, because like for parents with kids, depending on your kids ages, you might want to also rethink how much accent and how much accent they have to a laptop and a computer as well, because there
are a million ways to get in trouble online. I will not tell you what my child googled at school. The principle reached out to us, was like, she misspelled it, which is funny and it is a body part.
Tell me the spelling after we stopped recording.
Oh well, but so this happened at school under supervisions and she didn't get into too much trouble and then you know, the filter blocked it out. But this, like, kids are curious about stuff. I don't even think it was in the farious things she was trying to do. She's just curious because kids are curious. So obviously, what does that look like she did in trouble we had, we had to have a chat. But let's add maybe something else that you want your kids to avoid, which
is chatbots. And not just because we don't want your kid to have fake digital friends, although I still put that in the weird camp. I don't I personally don't want any fake digital friends, but also because you're delivering more personal information into the hands of advertisers when you strike up more conversations with chatbots online. The Verge had an article documenting how Meta is going to use your AI chats to personalize your feed, serving you have advertisements
based on your interactions with those said chatbots. You cannot opt out of this, and Matt, this is just another kind of check in the Brave New World camp. What have we entered into?
I am uh.
It makes me want to stay away because I don't want to deliver any information that the chatbots are going to recognize. And then every Facebook esque product they own, whatsapped too, is going to serve me up ads based on personal interactions I've had with the chatbot where I kind of thought they were off limits to advertisers. But no, of course they're not.
You didn't you weren't expecting all the chatbot to go squealing.
People are using chatbots for relational purposes, more, for therapy purposes, more, They're giving away more personal information on these things, And I think you just have to be wary from the get go about how much it's different to ask a question about a research paper you're writing. Right, that seems like less potentially harmful to you, but if you are using it for some of those other more highly relational purposes, you might find it super creepy what you get served up in the aftermath.
Okay, So all on that note, our last related story here, did you see the story about verb dot verb ai? Oh? Yeah, which is a basically a data harvester. You download it, it puts a tracker on your device, and you get paid for letting them track you.
Thoughts, what do you think for letting them watch everything you do on your smart Well, you search.
Where you go, your browsing habits, I mean, how long you stay on certain apps? Literally everything?
Yeah, I guess the only thing they're not supposedly scraping is what's taking with your.
Bank exactly that bank information. I don't know. Man.
That creased me out too. And it feels really different than going to donate plasma for money.
Well that was okay, so yeah they actually, yeah you heard the story. They've actually got that there in the story. And like that's an instance where it feels like the equivalent isn't that you are going to donate plasma. It's it's almost as if the equivalent would be that our like our current data scraping industry is sort of like you going to your doctor and them running a check
on you. You know, you're there for you're annual physical and they say, oh, you know what, we need to actually sample some of your blood and you're sitting there and you're hooked up for like thirty minutes and you're like, what are you guys doing? Yeah, and they're like, oh, nothing, and they're like secretly harvesting your blood. That's what it feels like now versus going to a plasma center where
you are knowingly sitting down yours. Yes, where it feels intentional And so me personally, am I gonna do this? Am I gonna download this app? And you know, they're calling it like a new gen Z side gig where you can make fifty bucks a month. I don't think I'm gonna do it, but I think there's a there's a younger map that would have considered, like seriously considered it, maybe checked it out and seeing to see how it
would have interfered. Because it feels like it's bringing that selling of personal information out into the open, I think, and that's the kind of transparency that I can get behind. I think that's a great point. I think, especially if you're alright, if you're using social media apps and you're not asking it to track you, they've already got your information.
And you're just not getting paid for right when you when the product that you're using is free, then you're the product and you just kind of don't know all the ways they're accessing your personal data. At least this is a voluntary exchange and you're getting paid for your data. Still, this is something I wouldn't participate in because I don't want some app sitting in the background on my phone
checking out every single thing I do. And you know, I don't know what percentage of the profits I'm getting as the product that they're mining. But it doesn't seem like it's enough to compel me to sign up.
Yeah, I'm with you. I'm not gonna do it, but it's interesting to know that there is an option. There's somebody out there who thinks that this could be something that would succeed, no doubt.
All Right, that's gonna do it. We'll put links to in the show notes to some of the websites and resources we mentioned on thebuarries. The website, of course, as you all know, is howtomoney dot com. If you want to get in touch with us, if you want to send Matt an email, how to moneypod at gmail dot com. Tell Matt how.
Call me out. I'll get back to you.
Excellent you think he is. Or if you've had something dumb that you didn't agree with today, let me know that too.
Don't holler me though, just kidding. You can email with you.
Oh, I have a great weekend. Until next time, best friends out, best friends Out,