Financial Lessons Learned During Covid #239

has certainly taught us a lot of lessons. And the thing is, these are lessons that we knew to be true before, but the coronavirus has heightened, you know, our awareness of these truths and the impact that we have on our lives. And so that's what we're gonna talk about today. Man, We're gonna talk through these different lessons that you and I that we've learned, that others have

learned during this time of financial stress. Yeah, Matt. And it's been said that those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it for that before, right, It's

a popular phrase. Uh, And and so I think, yeah, if we don't learn these lessons, if we don't kind of document them, discuss them and basically learn from what we've gone through, right, I mean, we are learning a lot on the health front that is gonna hopefully help us in the case of, you know, a potential future pandemic, which I hope never happens, because this one's been pretty

horrible in and of itself. But there are financial lessons that we should all be learning and we should put to use for our future, because I think you can help us whether upcoming storms, hopefully not pandemic storms in our financial future, but but other financial storms that we are going to go through, because they inevitably happen in life to all of us at one point or another.

But before we get to that, Matt, I think a couple of weeks ago, I mentioned a new power line internet solution that that we purchased uh for homeschooling to help increase the Internet in our house. And I'm sure people have heard of this on the show before, but

you know, Emily and I are family. We basically live in this duplex that we used to have somebody living in the back of our house, and now we kind of taking it all over, but we still have this kitchen in the back like a second kitchen, and we're five people. We don't need two kitchens. Almost nobody actually needs two kitchens. This is our breakfast kitchen, and lunch and dinner kitchen is up front. Yeah, that sounds like something a fancy person would have, right, you are pretty fancy,

that's true. But yeah, so this kitchen basically there, it's used to storage, Like we put our bikes back there and stuff right now, and we realize, man, this is a perfect space to try to do homeschooling with the kids. And so I'm in the process of ripping everything out of the kitchen and selling off everything I can and

just making it a conducive space to do homeschooling. And it's something that we probably wouldn't have thought about, and we probably would have just left it as is for a while longer or it not for this realization that, like, we need extra space. We can't just be doing everything in the girl's bedrooms. They already share a bedroom. If we put all the schooling in there plus their toys, I mean, it's just gonna be it's gonna be a

close lot of stuff. Yeah. So yeah, I'm curious to know kind of what our listeners are doing and maybe what you're doing to Like, I'm sure so many people are reconsidering their the space in their home for how they're going to do childcare and schooling and all that kind of stuff, because we're all in a completely different

boat right now. Yeah, man, And you know that's something that a lot of families here in Atlanta, I guess l A just other cities where schools are not opening in person, where they're only opening virtually or online this fall. But the thing is, in order to do that, you have to have somebody to help facilitate that, someone to

watch the kids actually during the day. And men, you and I were our families are in a position where our wives it's maybe a little old school, but we're lucky enough to have them be stay at home moms. Those are some decisions that we have proactively made. But what that means is that we're lucky enough to have someone to oversee and facilitate that learning while the kids are at home. But man, we know that that is

not the case for everyone. There's a lot of individuals who you know, we're both parents need to work, or if it's a single parent household, like that parent has to go back to work. Uh, and they're in a tough position to where they're having to figure out what childcare looks like for them as they go back to work, you know. And the thing is, not very many employers are offering any type of backup childcare or any additional

benefits to help take care of those situations. Yeah. Sure, that's a stressfhold place to be in if especially if you have to go into a physical location to work. If you're working from home, that's hard enough, right to multitask and do both, But if you actually have to hop in the car go somewhere for work, how in the world if you're a single parent or both parents have to go into work, do you even come close

to making sure your kids taken care of. We talked about pod schooling a while back, and that's one thing that some people are considering, and I think that can be helpful a small group of people and in your community doing school together with other kids that are in

the same class or same grade. I think too, it's really important for a lot of parents right now to petition their their boss, to talk to someone in HR and see what's available, and to see if that company is willing to make more resources available when it comes to childcare, because obviously we're all just kind of winging it at the end of the school year last year.

But at this point, I think employers have had enough time to kind of put some thought into Okay, I'm asking you to come back to work, I need you to be this productive. But at the same time, the options are pretty slim when it comes to how you handle childcare. And and so, yeah, I think employers do have a role to play in this conversation. And as an employee, I think you have every right to ask for your employer to help be a part of the

solution in that case. Yeah, And personally, what I wouldn't want to see is like an employer trying to create their own daycare but instead, like you kind of hinted at this, but like just compensation, right, like additional funds, additional money, uh, that's kind of earmarked for childcare, you know, and then allow the individual employees to to figure out what is going to work best for them, because maybe for someone they were going to have a parent come

and watch the you know, the kids, the grandkids, but knowing that there's compensation evolved might make that decision a lot a lot easier. Um, it's not a matter of having to create, uh, you know, this daycare program there on site or something crazy like that, although some employers are doing at But I think it would be more efficient and just a smarter use of time and money if you're able to to leave it up to the individual.

But yeah, I couldn't agree more though. It's just to advocate for what it is that you need, because I mean, in the end, it's sort of supply in demand, right Like if employeers are seeing that, man, a lot of employees are demanding this, there's this other employer that is offering this. Well, you know, those employees are gonna see that that's a benefit that another company offers and they don't want to lose those those great employees. You know,

It's it's expensive to train and recruit rehire employees. And at the very least, I think if your employer isn't doing anything to help you out when on the childcare front, you need to start the conversation now based on kind of what your school is doing, whether your kids going back to school or whether your kid is is homeschooling for the fall. You need to have that conversation now about what your work days look like and what the

level of productivity expectation can be. And employers are definitely gonna have to be flexible on that front. I know if I was a single parent with two kids at home going to school trying to work as well, my productivity would would suffer greatly and I would hope that my employer would be understanding. And that's a conversation. I think that needs to start now, if if it hasn't already, Yeah, the sooner the better, for sure. On that, Let's go

ahead and introduce our beer for this episode. Man, we are having Modus the Vendi and this is by the Wild Beer Company, and I'm looking forward to sharing our thoughts on this one, Buddy at the end of the episode. Yeah, this breweries out of the UK. Looking forward to having a foreign beer on today's episode. Yeah, so all right, But let's get onto the topic at hand, financial lessons learned during COVID, Matt. I don't think any of us ever expected to live through a pandemic. It wasn't not

my radar. I know my mom was reading books about ebola back in the nineties and she's a nurse. She's a nurse, so she's like an upper ally. Yeah, she's interested in that stuff. And and so I was always like, all right, cool, that sounds like that's it's like a Grisham novel or something like that, But it never felt like it could actually be reality. But it is our reality right now. Right the current health crisis has had this domino like effect on so many other areas of

our lives. We just talked about childcare, but of course finances as well. Some of our listeners have filed for unemployment for the first time, others have been furloughed, and others have just kind of seen what's happening around them and felt this keen sense of a need to say more money. Right. And so today on the show, Matt, you and I were gonna share some of the financial lessons that really seem to stick out like a sore thumb due to the impact of COVID on our lives.

Because again, there are things we can take away there, there are lessons we can learn that are gonna help improve our financial trajectory from today moving forward. Yeah, man, And you know, some of these lessons we're going to discuss, they are probably something you've thought of already because you know, like, how could you not, especially if you've you know, listened to the show for a while. But there are gonna be some other financial lessons that we're gonna share that

might feel brand new to you. But the impact of COVID has certainly taught us all a good bit. There are some broader macro money lessons that we've learned as a just as a whole society, But we're gonna stick mostly to you know, personal finance in this episode because that's what we do, man, That's what we talk about. Yeah,

for sure, Matt. I think one of the first lessons that we need to mention that sticks out to me that I've learned through going through a pandemic was that emotions influence how we handle money in just a major way. Human emotion can be this simultaneously wonderful and terrible thing. Emotions can create the most beautiful feelings that lead to wonderful action, right, like like an incredible piece of art.

Often those are inspired by an overwhelming emotion, right, But it can also lead us to eat a whole pint of ice cream in one sitting. I know you're eating the all the ice cream though in one sitting Matt, if if that happens to you, I have been known to lack some self control when it comes to eating ice cream, especially the good all these stuff. Right, But yeah, we're we're all dealing with a lot right now from

the pandemic. Racial injustice is a real issue in our country right now, and it's an election here, so emotions are running high, and because of that, many of us are dealing with wider emotional swings. And it's just to me, it's so clear that the emotions that are happening around us interpersonal emotions to Matt with with people that were close to It's harder on parent child relationships, it's harder

on partner relationships right now. And I think the increased emotional tension is affecting the way people actually handle their dollars and cents too. Yeah, like you mentioned, even on a personal level, right you know, Like we just talked about childcare difficulties at the top of the show, but even that can create higher psychological distress levels. Our emotions can cause us to follow these different urges to maybe spend more money or to sell stocks in a panic.

Even just being aware of the fact that emotion can wreak havoc on our finances that can help us to take solid action to do something hopefully differently, in something that's a little bit more smart. You might just need to to reframe things mentally, or you know, you might need a trusted friend to talk to you off the

ledge before maybe making a harmful money move. Yeah, sometimes it's hard to recognize kind of the emotion that's overtaken us until we've made the poor decision, Until we see the empty ice cream pint on the couch next to us, we're like, oh, yeah, that's what happened. And that's just common for so many of us. It's hard to see it coming on. It's hard to know that the emotion is overtaking us and is leading to disastrous results. And so yeah, I think Matt kind of putting things in

place that can help you realize those emotions. Having, like you said, uh, someone to bounce something off of so you don't make a catastrophic money money move in a particularly emotional time is incredibly beneficial. And then right if you've made a bad financial move, I feel like that then feeds into feeling more stressed and it becomes this kind of perpetuating cycle if we can't stop it, and

over time, like money in security leads to poor mental health. Matt, We've talked about this on the show before, but but not having a solid financial foundation leads to increased levels of stress and that UH studies then show that your i Q decreases by about a dozen points when your stress levels go up. There are very few of us who perform better at work and make better financial decisions when our brains feel fried. And so I just think

that's where a lot of people are right now. And it's so so important to realize the impact that emotions can have on the way that we we handle our money because they have so much more power than we typically realize. And on a personal finance show, Matt, we're talking about the steps are the numbers, But emotion play such a huge part of how we handle our personal finances, and I think that needs to be acknowledged and it's something that more people in the personal finance fear should

be talking about. Yeah, that's a lot of talk about emotions in our minds, right, but you know, we do feel that that's an important place to start because so much of personal finance has to do with what goes on inside of our heads. It's not just about knowing the right actions and right steps to take, you know, it's not just about the tips and tricks. Psychology and our our human behavior that plays a large role. You know.

Now that we've covered all of that, let's go ahead and get to some more of these, maybe more tangible financial lessons that we've learned due to COVID and we'll get to those right after the break. We're back from the break. We're talking about financial lessons that we've learned during the pandemic, and Matt, let's talk about some of the takeaways that that we've had, things that we knew but but things that have become even more apparent of

their level of importance. And one thing I think that just sticks out like a sore thumb, probably the thing that most people are feeling right now, is the importance of having a solid emergency fund, of having cash on hand. Right even though I think over the last ten years, in particular, the idea of having more cash in the bank has become downplayed. A lot of people were prone to prode you to invest that money, because why are

you letting it sit around? And savings earning very little, right, especially as the stock market has been performing incredibly well, it just became more popular to frown on holding cash in those savings accounts, but then having money in the bank a minimum of roughly tred but you know, you and I are fans of people having six plus months of living expenses in the bank that they have a liquid access to. It became so much more vital as Americans were were no longer able to work and earn

an income. So many Americans I think of Americans the last I saw, had their income negatively affected because of the pandemic, whether that was a full on job loss or even just being able to earn less because of

what's opening. Yeah, and having cash on hand. Essentially, what we're talking about here is an emergency fund, right and hopefully you rarely need to tap that emergency fund, but if you do, it is important to have a financial fire drill in place, knowing how you'll respond to different financial scenarios that can take the stress down quite a bit.

Even if you're barely saving any money currently, Knowing what and how much you can cut back if times get tough, that's gonna be comforting to you, you know, man for us, I know that we typically spend around four hundred bucks every month just to go about to eat, but I know that we don't need to do that every month. We also put a set amount towards saving for Christmas

gifts as well as vacation every year. But again, I know that if we were in a tight spot, we could hit pause and get by on a whole lot less. And so having that plan and knowing how it is that we could cut back, you know, just knowing that there's some legal room there that definitely gives me some peace of mind. Yeah. I think in in middle school or something like that, Matt, we were supposed to kind of figure out our house how we would escape in

the event of a fire. And I totally remember that right, like, we were supposed to meet as a family in one particular area, this is the best way to get out of the house, all that kind of stuff, And and that's a good exercise to go through as a family, to actually think about what would happen in the event

of a legitimate fire in your house. But then, but I agree, doing something similar with your finances and thinking through, Okay, if stuff hits the fan, what do we do and and what are the first things that we cut immediately? What could our budget look like? What could we live on? That's so so helpful and and having that financial fire drill in place is something I think so many people

would would benefit from. Yeah, man. And you know what's interesting too, is that we've seen people make changes to their spending. I think even if they haven't really thought through, you know, what steps they could take. We've seen because of the pandemic that upping your savings rate by spending less that it is almost always possible. Hopefully a less in our country has learned from the pandemic is that we don't need to spend as much as we are

actually guilty of spending. Uh. The recent increased savings rate numbers, man, that's evidence that it actually can be done. As job losses piled up there, there were just millions of people getting laid off in an incredibly short period of time, but at the same time, we saw the savings rate

in America that it was actually increasing. That is in large part because we couldn't go out and spend money like we usually would, and that has led to a realization for many that we can get by by spending less, and that our budgets are more in our control than you know we sometimes think. Yeah, So another lesson learned, upgrading your savings rate by spending less is almost always possible. I feel like that's one of the most common excuses

when people talk about personal finance. It's I can't cut anymore, like there's nothing left. And for so many people that's just not the case. We found that out. And if you actually look at your budget and you actually comb through your credit card bills and you see what you're spending money on every single month, I guarantee there's something that ninety five plus percent of us could find that doesn't need to be there, or a bill that can be slashed in some way, form or fashion. And so yeah,

upping your savings rate it's almost always possible. I think that's something that we've we've learned as we've seen, like you said, historic job losses, and yet UH savings rates increases across the board at the same time. Another lesson, though, Matt, that we've learned during the pandemic is that prioritizing debt payoff is almost never a bad idea. And I do stress almost and I'm gonna get to that in just

a second. Why. But yeah, working towards not having debt is this foundational, uh personal finance principle right at the core of wealth building. It's in the fact that we need to be earning interests and not paying it out to the banks that it puts us in a tough position, right, And so you and I were fans of helping people think through debt payoff in order to get in a

stronger financial position. But at the same time, while eliminating debt is so helpful to a person's financial journey, it's actually even more important when the infected respiratory droplets hit the fan, right, the entire country stays at home and

you lose your job. So like, while student loan deferments and other programs to postpone debt payments, they've been nice, but think about how much better it would be if you didn't have those loans altogether, if you had come up with a plan to pay off those debts quickly. I did say that the lesson was that it's almost never a bad idea, right. So on the flip side, eliminating that emergency fund that we just talked about in

order to get rid of your debt more quickly. Places too high of a priority on debt elimination in most cases, because in the event of job loss, it's nice, of course to not have a student loan payment, It's nice, of course to not have a mortgage, but if you paid those off quickly at the expense of having any

cash in the bank. To whether you throw any sort of storm, that is I would say when you put maybe a little too much emphasis on the debt payoff thing, right, yeah, hot priority is maintaining that emergency fund, having that cushion, having that financial margin. Another lesson that we've learned man from the pandemic is that no career is completely solid. Man, And this is a lesson that I can speak to

you from personal experience. Okay, Now, we began shooting weddings full time back in two thousand and eight, and at the time business grew like crazy. Man, like you, we would quickly realize that, like wow, this is an industry that is basically a recession proof. No matter what is going on with the economy, people continue to get married even during the Great Session. But you know, while the wedding industry is recession proof, it's definitely not pandemic proof.

Needless to say, uh, there have been many many weddings that have been canceled or postponed, which also means that there have been many wedding professionals who have had their income canceled or postponed. So thankfully, man, if you know, in our case, we're doing fine. Over the years, we've transitioned to taking on fewer weddings, and we have diversified or income through real estate and even side gigs like podcasting. But it's important to develop alternate ways to to make

a living. And ideally, again we're you're doing this before you actually need it, because sometimes if you're gonna wait until you need it, it's a little bit too late. Yeah. It makes me think about a long time ago when we had Jordan Harbinger on the show and he gives

the example of digging the well before you're thirsty. He specifically talks about networking right and how having those contacts before you lose your job or before you go through a tough career situation, that having those relationships and staying in contact with people that can be influential in your future job decisions is so a clutch and I love

that idea. I also love that idea of digging that well before your thirsty when it comes to having multiple streams of income, Matt, if you hadn't thought about that years ago, if you weren't working towards a more diversified way of earning money, you'd probably be going through a really, really difficult time right now seeing a lot of those weddings basically just vanished. Try out. Yeah, So I just would encourage everybody out there to know that their career

as solid as they might have thought it was. The industry maybe that was recession proof, or maybe they're the number one producer at their job, but that industry has been affected just in a massive way right now, and

maybe they're not on solid footing anymore. Realizing that your career, that no career is completely solid is is definitely I think one of the lessons that we've learned during this pandemic, and it's something that we can take to heart and we can make changes to actually strengthen our personal finances

in the future. And ultimately maybe it's just a call to say, be a little clear eyed about this and don't just assume that the job that you're in is going to continue to provide for you no matter what. It's important for you to have a plan, even for the unlikeliest of situations. Yeah, I like what you said, man, about your specific job. You might feel pretty secure about that. You know, you might feel really good about your specific company.

But aside from whether or not your specific company is doing well, like the industry as a whole might collapse, you know, like it did for us. And so, Man, at the heart of it, what we're talking about here is diversification of income. But after the break, we're gonna talk about diversification in another way. We're gonna talk about it, uh, in your portfolio, in what it is that you invest in, and we'll get to that right after the break. We're

back from the break. Of course, we're talking about the pandemic and how it has affected our finances, and there's some lessons that we can learn and we can take those lessons and kind of implement them into how we begin to build our financial lives from today moving forward. And that we just talked about how no career, no specific job, is completely solid, right, and so it's in iportant for us to be diversified when it comes to

how we make money. But yeah, diversification in in what we invest in is crucial to the stock market was hammered right in March and April, and some individual stocks in particular are still feeling the pain and and they haven't recovered in the slightest. Other companies have seen increased demands for their products and services due to COVID, and the market is reflecting that right their stocks are sky high.

But but who could have predicted these exact outcomes? Now, you or I'm at I wouldn't have predicted Tesla's meteoric rise. And diversification in your investing is always key because it is so hard for us as individuals one to know what's coming and then too to know how that's going to influence the markets and businesses and and their demand for their services. Yeah, that's right, man, And that's why

we don't recommend single stock investing. We recommend buying the entire stock market, basically investing into the entire U S economy. Another lesson that we we've learned due to the pandemic is that we need to invest for decades, not for years. You know, if you many ay changes to your investments this past spring, maybe other than buying as much as you could, Uh, you need to rethink you're investing prime horizon.

We wouldn't recommend investing money in the stock market unless you're willing to not touch it for five or you know, ideally seven years. If you're looking to the headlines and you know you're buying and selling stocks on a daily basis, that's not actually investing. It's just speculating. Yeah, boy, And isn't that Another lesson that we've learned in the COVID times is that speculating can cause a lot of financial harm.

There's been so many stories written about Robin Hood training and youngsters in particular getting into the stock market in this kind of tumultuous and volatile time, and so many of them it looks like for a minute that they've just made a ton of money and then they get crushed. And you're right, Matt, that speculation that is not investing. So another lesson we need to learn is what our investing strategy should be. And I think there's a quote

from Warren Buffett that sums us up well. He says that we should be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful, and there will be volatility in the market. We've talked about that before, but we have to train ourselves to kind of see those drops as the market going on sale, not as a sign that we're gonna lose everything and it's time to bail

out of our investments. But at the same time, not buying individual stocks when they're on sale, because we do that, especially as so many people are doing right now, is kind of armchair investors without much knowledge going into the trades you're making on specific companies. That's when you put a whole lot of your personal wealth at risk. Yeah, man, So those are some thoughts on investing right. Another lesson that we've learned is that it is important for us

to prepare for the inevitable. People are dying, man, but you know, because of a virus that most of us didn't see coming. But we all know that, like someday that we are going to die, right, and so making

sure that we are preparing for that is important. Uh. This, you know likely means that you need to make sure that you have a will and creating steps maybe for your your significant other, your partner to know how to handle the finances if you were to die and that was you know, one of the roles that you took on in your relationship. I mean, at the very least, it's important for them to know where the passports are, you know, like for them to be able to log

in the accounts that you jointly hold together. That way their personal finances can continue, that way their financial life doesn't get up ended. Yeah. Man, that provides so much peace of mind in the here and now when things are kind of in a crazy state all around us. Knowing that you have a will in place, that you have life insurance, that you have access to those passwords, and that you've communicated well about you know, the inevitable happening.

It's such a healthy conversation to have, but nobody wants to have it. It's not fun. But it is one of those things that that I think we've seen as a lesson is that it's important, and it feels like it's even more important right now. Yeah, so true, But like you said, it's not fun, Like, that's not a conversation with My wife wants to hear me say. It's like, Hey, when I die, here's how you can log into everything and make sure that you continue living your life, you know,

but that doesn't mean it's any less important, Joel. One other lesson too, that we've learned is that money, man, it's not everything. You know. The pandemic has for for many of us, helped us realize that while being financially secure through smart money management, it's great, but money does

have its limits. Many of us have been separated from family and from friends, and hopefully a lot of us have realized that those relationships that they mean so much more to us than having a padded bank account, than having all of our ducks lined up and where we're not having to worry about our finances quite as much.

Relationships also mean a whole lot to us. Yeah, and whether we've kept our job or we've had a pay cut, what whatever position we're in, I think there's a lot for us to be thankful for and grateful for, even if COVID has thrown kind of a wrench in our plans and and a wrench specifically in some of our financial plans. I think also too, you know, money isn't everything. Yes, that's an important lesson to learn, and at the same time,

being thankful for the good health that we'd have. I mean, I know, I'm acutely aware of the fact that, you know, one, we haven't gotten COVID, and too, I've been able to enjoy my healthy body, like during these times going on bike rides with the kids, and when you look at the mounting cases of COVID and the people battling for their lives and and many people having lost their lives, I think we've definitely learned that not taking our health

for granted is important. We're not promised tomorrow, none of us, right, and so be thankful having gratitude for what we currently do have in our lives, the relationships, but then also good health. That's certainly a lesson I want to learn and I want to kind of continue to implement in my life from from here on out. Yeah, I mean, COVID it's impacted us all in different ways, but hopefully we've all learned some financial lessons in the midst of

all of this insanity. You know, Let's let's hope that we can make some meaningful changes based on on what we've learned. And like you said at the beginning, Joel, it's important for us to to cover these things in order that they stick and that we don't allow history to repeat itself. And unfortunately, you know, there are some of us who have learned these lessons the hard way, and so by talking about these lessons, hopefully we can

help others to completely avoid them all together in their lives. Yeah, learn the lessons from listening to a podcast as opposed to going through incredibly difficult times and not being prepared. Yes, so I think we can be more prepared based on these lessons. And of course, hopefully we don't encounter another pandemic, but financial pitfalls and difficulties and emergencies come up for all of us at different times, and they will happen, and they're going to happen, and we can be more

for paired than we currently are. And I think these are just some of the ways that we can learn a lesson, implement some change, and make a difference for our future selves. All right, let's get back to the beer that we had on the show today. We drank a beer called Modus Vivendi by the Wild Beer Company out of the UK. I've actually had this one kind of stored away in my quote unquote beer seller, which

means my kitchen country. Yeah, for like two and a half three years now, but I decided to pop it out for for this episode with you. Man, what were your thoughts on it? Sometimes you gotta bust it out for a special occasion podcast or not special occasion, just random recording day. Yeah. I will say, this is a beer I've had before, and every time I have it, I really enjoy it. You know. It doesn't necessarily say on the bottle that it's a Flanders red but it

drinks just like a Flanders Red ale. For for the non beer nerds out there, let's just mention that Flanders read is this incredibly tart beer with like a vinegar profile that is typically found in the Flanders region of Belgium. Yeah, man, And that's exactly how I would describe this beer. You know, it was acidic and so it was nice and bright, but at the same time it had uh it was Asian oak barrels, and so it had this kind of

oak tannon flavor that complemented the acidity very well. It's a it's a flavor profile that I can always turn to and I know that I will enjoy and this one, in particular Modus Vivendi by the Wild Beer Company. I feel that this is a perfect example of what this style should taste like. Really enjoyed it, buddy, Thank you for sharing. What are your thoughts on this one? No, man, I totally agree. I really like this beer. I don't know why I held onto it for so long without

drinking it, but now I'm glad I did. And yeah, I think to what you said about it being aged in oak barrels. It's so massively mellows the those uh, those Harsher flavors, and actually really like those Harsher flavors, but when you mellow them out with the oak, I feel like it actually opens up a whole lot of other flavors that are going on in the beer. It's

not overpowering in its hardness because of the oak. So yeah, this was like expertly done right, because some people can make a Flanders Red and it can just be like a punch to the mouth. It can be a little bit too much sometimes, you know, or sometimes even not enough. Yeah, either one, and I feel like, yeah, they kind of did hit it perfectly on this one. So yeah, I really like this beer. Cool man, Well that's going to

be it for this episode. Listeners. You can find our show notes up on our website at how to money dot com. And if you've been listening for a while, thanks so much. If you're a new listener, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you continue to get notifications of every episode that Matt and I put out. So all right, Matt, that's gonna do it for this one until next time, Buddy, best Friends Out, Best Friends Out.