Fees Will Kill Your Retirement Savings #091

you can keep those fees. Loo. I think last week on an episode, Matt, you said that I had an interesting kind of gravelly voice because I was slightly under the weather. Oh yeah, I do recall, all right, So it turned out we did have sickness ravaging R ended up being pretty rough. Yea. So my girls they both had strap throat and then on top of it, my three year old had the flu as well. So kind of like double dose of terrible sickness going through and so I'm sure I caught a touch of that and

my voice was a little bit off. Um, but I want you guys get the flu shot. I got the flu shot, but I because I get it for free of work, and I don't think the rest of my family did. And I probably should have like drugged them into a Kroger or something like that in order to get the flu shot. But we we just didn't. But at least at the end of the season. And it's too bad right now. Well, when we heard that, that was my first thought. I was like, the freaking flu crap.

Did we get the flu shot? Because I figured they would have already caught it, to be honest, But I guess we nearly avoided that one because of the flu shot. I guess it was that same strain because most of the time, isn't it like slightly off, Like you get the flu shot and then it ends up being a

different variety of flu that goes around. Yeah, sometimes the flu shot is only a certain percentage effective because they can't quite accurately predict the strains that are going to have to guess which he is going to be the one that yeah, the ones that's popular exactly exactly, Oh

you're the cool string this year. But I wanted to mention to people in the case of strep throat, at least when we went to the doctor, we were able to you know, we got a prescription friend of my honor to fight the strip throat, And I wanted to let folks know about free and cheap medications, and in particular, there are certain places that offer much cheaper basic medication than others. And if you, uh, if you have a Publix near you, they're kind of the Southeast Regional grocery chain.

You can get free antibiotics, which is really nice. So both girls were able to load up on antibotics for free. Yeah, Julian, you can get those antibotics all the time, right, It's not like it was just a special promotion that they're running. I mean they you can go there pretty much anytime get the antibotics you need. And you can get pet antibiotics there for free as well, so not just human stuff but stuff for your your your dogs. Yeah, so

that's really cool. And there are lists online and we'll link to one of kind of where you can find cheap and and free prescriptions, like I know, Walmart has a four dollar list of prescriptions that they make available for for four dollars. And then you know, there's also a great app that you can use called good r X and you plug in the prescription that you want to find, and it essentially maps out your town and it says, well, it's eight dollars here and it's thirty

two dollars here. You'll be amazed at the disparity in prices. So if you're loyal to one place to get your prescriptions filled, then in all likelihood you're paying too much. The only caveat is if you're getting your prescriptions filled at Costco, you're probably getting the lowest price almost every time.

If that's where you're getting your prescriptions filled. Nice. The only other trick then if you're gonna do publics is to make sure that you don't end up kind of shopping around a little bit because your prescription is not filled. Because they're one of like the nicer grocery stores around us, right,

they're a lot nicer than Aldi. Uh. I know that you can't get the same deals they got, all those buy one, get one deals, But as far as the the general stuff that we normally get, we've got suckered into kind of walk in the aisles a little bit because it hadn't quite unfilled. And I don't know, maybe we spent a little more money on groceries than we would have, but hey, we got the free antibiotics, so yeah, yeah, you're gonna pay a little more for groceries at publics.

But uh, it is truly a nice place to shop, that's for sure. Um. All right, so let's get to the beer that we're having on the show real quick, Matt. Today we're drinking Mint to Guard. It's a beer to Guard agent red Wine Barrels from Brain Dead Brewing Company. Yeah, this one was sent to us by Jared. He sent us a several beers a couple of months ago. We had a Jester king on that you are a huge fan of Yeah, I fell in love with it, all right. So we'll get into our thoughts on this beer at

the end of the show. But now, Matt, onto the topic of hand. We're talking about why fees are a retirement savings killer. And just a fee of like one percent in your retirement account that doesn't sound all that bad. One percent, right, Like that's that's almost negligible, it seems like, But it turns out that a fee of even just one percent could cost you, potentially depending on how much you're investing, over half a million dollars in actual money

back to you over your investing lifetime. Fees not only a road how much money you have to invest now, but they've lessened the amount of money that's compounding in your account for all of the years that you're saving and investing. And it turns out that almost three quarters of folks have no idea what sort of fees are being charged inside of their investment accounts. And we have to change that, Matt. So let's putting up the subject

of fees. Let's kind of get into it and help people learn what sort of fees are they're paying currently and then how to avoid them schedule. Nerd Wallet actually has a fantastic article that we're gonna link to in the show notes that breaks down all of this information

and they've got some very helpful charts. But we're gonna share a quick example where as an investor, if you put five dollars a month into a brokerage account each year for thirty years, so that's a total of a hundred and eighty thousand dollars right say, over your working career, and during that time, say you're earning seven percent well with a one percent fee, that entire time, the value of your account will have grown to four hundred and

eighty nine thousand dollars roughly. But get this, man, you would have lost nine eight thousand dollars to fees close to a hundred k just because of that one percent feet, which is massive. Yeah, that's messed up, man. And it just goes to show you that even and if the fees are higher, some people might be looking at like a one and a half or two percent feet And if that's the case, over your thirty year investing lifetime, you're talking about almost a hundred and eighty thousand dollars

on a two percent fee. So fees matter greatly. And it is something that I think we're becoming a little bit more aware of, something that's talked about more and that's partly in thanks to the bigger low cost investment houses like Vanguard, Fidelity and Schwab. But you just don't want to end up in retirement with less money than you could have because fees were eating away at it. Yeah.

The problem is too is it's just not something you think about, right, Like you don't look down the road and think, cool, how much less money am I gonna have because I'm not investing maybe quite as wisely or in the funds that I should be. I think a lot of times folks think, oh, I'm putting a lot of money away it's gonna be okay, right, Like I can sort of outsafe and out invests when I'm paying and fees, but you're still gonna lose that money if

you have high fees. And again a small fee doesn't seem like a huge deal, but they are the biggest problem and a huge differentiator with how much wealth you will actually have when you do reach retirement, of course, all other factors being equal. Yeah, Matt. So there's this company called morning Star, and what they do is they track and rank different funds according to their performance. And

they did a study a few years ago. They have these morning Star, these vaunted morning Star ratings, and it's a star system and they found out, according to their study, that the costs associated with a fund is actually more important than having a higher morning Star Star rating had a larger impact on how successful that fund was and

on investor return. So, if you're looking to invest in the stock market and you're looking at the morning Star Star system, which you should, I mean, I think morning Star is helpful. I think they rank funds. Well, should you just say morning Star system? You probably should? Yeah, yeah, I just get it out quickly. But I just thought that was interesting that they basically said that fees are more important than the star system that they have so

much invested in, so much tied up in. And so I think morning Star is, you know, a great place to research funds, but fees and those matter more than than even the star rating. And so that's something that

many people found shocking when that study was released. And I just think it's something that just quantifies exactly how important, you know, fees are too individual mom and pop investors like us and like you know, people listening to this show that that want to just invest inside of their four O and K I A. It only accentuates the fact that they should be paying even more close attention

to to the fees that are inside of those investments. Yeah, Joel, But the good news, like you're you're saying though, is that fees are in decline as low cost brokerage firms, they've gotten more popular, they've gained prominence, uh, and they are wanting investors to know more and specifically it's it's sort of like a race to the bottom as far as like what the fees are going to be with the different big brokera ch Hosses, I think of Vanguard

and Fidelity, they're essentially anytime they release something new, it's to compete with a specific product. That's like rock and socking robots constantly right now between the two of them exactly. And most recently, I guess was last year Fidelity they dropped the expense ratios on a certain line of funds down to zero, like completely zero, where there is no

cost associated with maintaining those funds at all. So after the break, we're gonna talk about the different types of fees associated with investing, as well as how to find those fees that are hiding in your investments. Stick around for that, all right, Matt, we're back from the break and let's get into the types of fees. But before we get to that, I didn't want to just say, just to give a little bit more of a mental picture.

When I think about fees, I think of termites. And it turns out that termites can be eating away at the wood in your house for years before you even notice that they're there, before you notice that they're having an impact, and all of a sudden, you know, your foot goes through the floorboard and it's like boom. Instantly you know the you have a problem and that the termites are are eating through your house and you've got to get an exterminator out there. And fees can be

like that. They can be kind of this silent killer that you don't see, and that's out of sight, out of mind, and you don't even realize that it is ruining your retirement savings because of like the examples we mentioned just above, it can be costing you fifty a hundred thousand or more over the life of your investment. So let's get into the specific types of fees that are common and the and we'll talk about how to look for fees inside of your retirement account so that

you can figure out how to eliminate them. Yes, Joe, let's dive into it. Just keep in mind that this is not going to be an exhaustive list where we name every single fee. We're gonna kind of cover some of the more prominent ones, some of the ones that take the biggest bite out of your investments. So on that note, let's start with brokerage fees. These are the fees charged by the broker that holds your investment accounts. We have talked about this recently, but just think of

them as the custodian of that account. To take for example, of Vanguard, they have a twenty dollar a year fee, which isn't huge at all unless you meet certain investing thresholds and then they eliminate it. Yeah, or I mean, and you can meet those thresholds as well by just receiving your statements via email, so it's not difficult at all. But then you've got Fidelity as well, and they've decided

that they're not going to have any fees at all. Again, Rock and Stock and robots, they're trying to take each other down. Yeah, it's actually interesting pouring over the fees like brokerage fees and and the other fees that that investment firms charge. I was looking at Vanguards and Fidelities specifically, and honestly, Fidelity is not only doing better on some of the specific fund fees now, but they're doing better on pretty much every single other fee associated with investing

if you go with them. And so, yeah, Fidelity has just really picked up the pace in the last year and a half two years. And I love Vanguard. Yeah, you and I both are a huge trans vant guard, but Fidelity, man, it's like winning my heart. It's uh they're doing a really impressive thing. So those are still both just great companies with with low fees, and we'll

talk more about that in a little bit. So other types of fees that you might encounter when investing is something called a load, and there can be front end loads, there can be back end loads. These are charges or commissions paid to the salesperson who sells you the fund or like a broker if you're going like going through

a broker with your investments as well. Yeah, and so these are things that you need to watch out for because let's say you're putting in a thousand dollars, well, they might take out a certain percentage you're right off the front end or off the back end when you sell that investment, and and those loads can massively impact the returns that you see because that's just an other

fee that's hanging out. Another fee. Trade commissions. These are the costs association with buying and selling stocks or e t f s. So if you're with a company like e Trade, the minimum that you're looking at spending with a purchase or a sale is five bucks, and that's only if you meet the threshold of something like thirty transactions per quarter or something like that, and it could be even more depending on who you're with. That is not a fee that you need to be paying when

you can buy and sell for free. So just keep in mind that the more often that you buy and sell, that's gonna impact how much money you have to actually invest in actual funds or stocks. So you do not want to be buying and selling constantly, uh, and you do not want to be with a provider who charges

you for trade commissions. And the most talked about type of fee now, Matt, I feel like it's expense ratios because this is where the Rockham stock on robots is hitting like full bore, and we've just seen expense ratios fall massively over the last few years. So typically, especially with the low cost providers, it's that fee that you'll see touted the most frequently, and especially with Fidelity right now because they have those zero percent funds and will

link to those in the show notes. But there's a few funds in particular that they offer that don't have any expense ratio on top of not having any of these other fees that we're talking about, So really it is like you're investing for free. Yeah, it's Scott Clean costing you nothing exactly, And so expense ratios are something you want to look at. And it's really hard to

say what a good expense ratio is. Now when you think about the fact that you can invest for free, it kind of makes anything else look expensive, right honestly, yeah, it does. Yeah, But I think if you're interested in funds that have an expense ratio of point to five, maybe point three oh or or less, then those are, in all likelihood funds that at least aren't runaway with fees.

You want to be cognizant of your fees. But it's also okay to realize that even though fidelities offering it for free, there are a lot of other great institutions that you can do business with that don't have free expense ratios, but they do provide low cost expense ratios, and that's what you want to prioritize. And then lastly, Joe,

we're gonna touch on the management fee. And typically this is an annual fee from an investment advisor that can also be from a robo advisor, like if it's not an actual human being, but if it's a person, typically they charge by the percentage of assets under management, or you know, sometimes there's a flat rate as well. But think of it. Maybe it's sort of like the cost of admission, right like just to be seen by that advisor or just to be able to use that robo advisor,

there's a price you gotta pay. Sometimes it's an expense or a feed that might be worth it depending on your personal situation. Yeah, there's some great robo advisors to right, and we talked about that in a recent Listener Question episode that you know, robo advisors have a lot to offer, especially for investors that just don't feel comfortable going to d I Y route. Um. We we we like a lot of robo investors. But the thing is you're gonna

pay a little bit higher of a fee. But I think you're right, like a little bit higher of a fee as long as it's not astronomical, which most robo advisors it's point to five point three oh something like that, which which is within the realm of normalcy, and and it's okay. I think those are decent options for a

lot of investors. Yeah, it's just good to know that those are being taken out right, Like you need to be aware are these fees, and that's what we're gonna talk about next, actually, is how to look for those fees. And Joel, you're gonna kick that off. Yeah, we just mentioned robo advisors, but then also you might have a financial advisor down the street who who you work with, and their fees are just going to be higher than

a robo advisor fees are. And their fees typically if they are a fee only advisor, are going to be a percentage of assets under management. One percent is kind of an average amount. They might charge you a flat rate to sit down with them every year. But then there are other advisors who might take advantage of you with loads and commissions and brokers fees. And so the quickest way to look out for fees in your own retirement account is to ask the question, especially if you're

working with an individual who manages your assets. If you have a financial advisor, do you know how they get paid? And if you don't ask, there was a rule called the fiduciary rule that was supposed to go into place last summer and then it kind of got slapped down. So slap down by the courts. Yes, So it's a huge bummer because that is a standard that I think all investment professionals should be required to meet, which means that when they have you as a client, everything they

do is in your best interest. And now they don't have to meet that standard, certain investment professionals still hold themselves to that fiduciary standard, and if they do, they will typically put that wording on their website or or let you know up front. Just make sure you ask that question, because if they are, there's a greater chance that the fees aren't going to be as outrageous and they're not gonna be as hidden. But you want to ask about the fees that you're being charged to your

investment professional if you have one. So if you aren't sure what fees are are being taken out of your account, it's best to ask the question of whoever you're working with, And if you don't have a financial advisor and you just have like a four one K or an I RA, Matt, how can you figure out what fees are paying inside

of you know, one of those vehicles. First of all, if you are with a big bank, or even worse, maybe if you're with an insurance company, it's likely that you are paying higher than average and potentially ridiculous fees could be catastrophic, yeah, really really bad. So what you want to do in those situations are to ask for

the disclosures. And chances are I think a lot of don't actually know what their fees are because in those situations where you have your retirement or you have account set up through your work, it's it's hands off, right like, that's sort of one of the benefits is that you've got HR. That's something that they've done for you, and you think, cool, I can get back. We're all in this together, me and all the employees here. You know, we're all investing and doing what we're supposed to do.

But what you may not realize is that you all might be paying way too much. So ask for that disclosure. If the fees are high, go to HR and then ask them to shop around to other providers um or at least to include lower cost index funds inside of the plan that you're offered. You can also use a site like bloom and that's actually it's spelled b l o o oh um. There's three oh three oh oh, and they can perform a free analysis of your four one K in five minutes. And it's totally free. Yeah,

I love that. And there's another website fee x f e x uh it's all peak. Yeah, it's also another great spot. Until both of these companies can kind of review your investments and they take a specific look at the fees are inside of them. So if you're having trouble pinpointing the fees within your own retirement plan, it's worth checking out one of these sites and kind of and kind of getting an analysis and seeing, like for free, you know, how bad is the picture we're looking at

when it comes to the fees. And once you know exactly the fees that you're paying, it gives you the ability to make some changes and and to opt out of being in funds or doing business with companies that just charge outrageous fees that are ultimately going to hinder your ability to save for the future. So, Joel, your example earlier about the termites made me think of another example. Right, So, like in your example, the termites are more of a

hidden fee. But I think sometimes we might even realize that there's a fee there and people just kind of coast along with it. So do we have another animal reference to give? Not animal, but I'm thinking of like taxi cabs, like taxis, they cost a good chunk of money. Now that we have Uber and lift to people still take taxic cab, Yes they do, but then they cost a lot of money. And that's the thing I think. Sometimes folks are just so used to doing what they've

always done. Or if you're in like a big city like New York, you order a car right like, I don't know, a black car or something like that. I've heard it said before. I've ever done that. But if you're fancy fancy people, But why would you continue to do that when there's technology, uh and companies that have lowered the price and have made it easier and way more affordable to get what you need done while saving a lot of money. So that's what I think of.

I guess when it comes to feast, like, yeah, you can continue to go to your local advisor who's going to charge you every time you know, he sells you a certain fund and then on top of that, those funds are going to have high expense ratios. Oh and by the way, there's gonna be an assets under management fee as well. That's kind of the old school model, right, It's sort of like a taxi cab you're gonna pay a little a little bit more for like the for

the yellow checkered cab. Or you can just whip out your phone, go to that app and hail a ride and it's gonna show up. And then you're not gonna waste a lot of money on fees that you didn't need to spend. Okay, now that you've given that, Yes, there's one more that I've got and this hit me with it. This one has another animal reference. So it makes me think too if you said doing things that what you've always done it, And it makes me think of that that example of a bull frog in a

pot of boiling water. Yes, if you start the bullfrog off and he's in a pot of cold water and you turn up the heat gradually all the way to boiling, he will stay in that pot of water and he will just die. But if a bullfrog is plopped into a pot of boiling water, he'll jump out and he'll live. So I think, if you're someone who's been investing for years and years and years, and maybe you have an investment professional that you work with, but you might feel

comfortable doing it on your own. You just haven't made the plunge. Well, you're like that bullfrog that is eventually getting boiled to death because of those fees are are are crushing you and crushing your returns over time. So all right, I like it. Another good example. I think I think your metaphor might win in this case. That's really good. But doesn't have to be a bull frog, and it'll be like a tree frog. The tree frogs are the cute ones. They're like the like the neon

green with a little web. They got all the cool colors. That's true. I don't know if they all have the same reaction. That's a good question. But but yeah, that actually don't even know if that's true. But it's a story that you hear and it makes sense in your minds,

and that's all that matters, exactly exactly. So if you're someone who has been suffering these fees and you know that they're there, well maybe this is kind of the kick in the pants because you realize now that fees are actually a huge drag on your returns and you don't want that to be the case any longer. That's right, man. So next we're gonna talk about where to go in order to keep your fees and costs low. We're gonna

talk about that right after the break. All right, Matt, we're back from the break, and now we have to talk about where you actually go in order to keep fees and costs low. I like that, go go. That's perfect interesting annunciation on my part, that's for sure. So there are a few companies in particular who seem just wholly dedicated to low costs investing, and of course that means that we're fans of them, right, So, Vanguard Fidelity and in One those are our favorites, and I think

those are the ones worth checking out in particular. And Matt, you actually just switched to m one because you love their platform and their lack of fees so much, and you wrote an article about it on our site. Right yeah, Joel m One Finance, I'm a I'm a huge fan of them now. I mean, we've believed in them for a while now, but neither of us have actually given them a shot. I finally bit the bullet and switched over. Obviously,

we're talking about fees. They don't have any fees associated with using their platform, associated with any trading at all. They also have those pie charts that allow you to sort of pick a like a predetermined default approach to how you want to invest. It allows you to keep your assets, you know, allocated properly like you want to. And dude, you know what their app is actually really great as well. Vanguard it's pretty archaic. Yeah, it's not

so great. Fidelity is a little bit better. But M one I'm a big fan of it's it just works really well. It does everything I wanted to do. So because of that, man, I'm a huge fan and would recommend it to anyone that is looking to you know, cut fees, but also within one you know, you have a huge selection of funds that you can choose from. So I'm gonna convince you, Joel, to actually switch over pretty soon as well. All right, we'll see, we'll see

what happens. Oh, here's a wager. Well, I get you to switch over to M one before you get me to switch over and join a warehouse club. That's a good question. I have a feeling that in our upcoming warehouse club debate, you're gonna make the switch. But we'll see, we'll see. I'm pretty subborn though, you know that's true.

That's true. All right. So uh. Interestingly enough, there was an interview recently with the CEO of Vanguard, and he stated that active investing, which instead of buying an index fund, that means buying and selling stocks that you find valuable. And I know most of us, like Matt and I, we don't really do that, and and I know most of the people that listen to this show don't do

that either. If you are into doing the research and buying and selling stocks that you think makes sense for your portfolio, well, the CEO of Vanguard said, active investing is actually getting better and easier, and that's because fees are starting to lessen, and Vanguard has also been a

part of the forefront of that push. So if you are kind of headed in that direction towards choosing your own stocks as opposed to investing mostly in index funds like Matt and I do, well, that's good news too for you that fees are lessening there, and in particular, when you're looking at M one or somebody like Robin Hood and your your individually trading stocks, well the fees are not non existent. That means that you're getting the returns and not some guy in a suit on Wall

Street which is great, okay, Joe. So we've now discussed the low cost investment sort of platforms and the different brokerages that you can invest through. But now let's discuss, you know, what funds you should choose to ensure that you're getting the lowest fees. Let's do it. Yeah, e t f s. They are a solid choice essentially, you know, they're similar to index funds, but you trade them like stocks.

They're kind of like little slices of mutual funds. In general, index funds are are going to be the best choosing a total stock market or SMPI index fund in particular with one of the companies we mentioned. That's why you can keep costs low if non existence, and it also keeps it really easy. It's a way that you can

just stay widely diversified with minimal effort. Yeah, you know, I found it interesting as i as I did a little research for this episode to Matt that in X funds which track the same thing, even the costs associated with an index fund through different companies can vary widely. And so let's just take for example, two of the top index funds that track the smp five hundred and

one is from Spider and one is from Vanguard. They both have in actuality pretty low fees associated with them, but the one from Spider is three times the cost of the one from Vanguard. And when you're comparing even those two really low cost funds that mirror the same index. Take for example, what you mentioned Matt as well, Fidelities total stock market index fund is is a zero fee.

So just make sure you're prioritizing fees even when it comes to investing in those low cost options, because the fees can vary largely even inside of something that's already low cost. Yeah, Juel, you know you should make fees a primary reason for what you decide to invest in, but not the entire reason. It's still a big part. But just don't only consider your fees. You need to have a plan when it comes to your approach to investing.

And if you're currently with an investment house or a broker that charges high fees, just keep in mind that it's not that hard to switch. Just go to how to money dot com forward slash M one. That's where you can find my right up in my experience with switching over to M one. Yeah, if you've been listening to this episode and you're like, oh, man, I know

I'm being charged some of those fees. I know that I'm not in the lowest cost options, whether it means that you're just investing in a slightly higher cost UH index fund, or whether that means that you're with a full commission stock brokerage and you know that you need to get out in order to ensure that more of your money stays working for you as opposed to, you know, going to align the pockets of of the investment firm

that you're with. Well, it isn't all that hard to go away, and I know sometimes people take into account the personal relationship they have with an investment professional that they've been working with. Most of the time, you can just contact the new platform or provider that you you want to go with, let's say it's Vanguard or let's say it's in One, and they will help make that switch seamless for you and help you answer over to something that's going to be way better for you over

the coming years. And so you don't want to be like we mentioned earlier that that frog in the boiling water that's just getting accustomed to being feed to death. You want to take a proactive approach to the fees that you're being charged inside of your retirement account because it's your money, and you know what, at least now you know how bad fees are and exactly how much they're impacting the returns that you're gonna see. That's right, Joel.

So let's get back to the beer. This is a beer from brain Dead Brewing and these guys are out of Dallas, Texas. I don't know if we mentioned that earlier on but sent to us by Jared and he actually works there. What are your thoughts on this? Sper Man? Well, first side note, the best barbecue of my life that I've ever had came from Dallas, Texas. Yeah, and but I need to go to more spots in Texas and

try more barbecue. That's a goal that I have. But this beer, I thought, Man, it was really really good, super interesting, unlike anything we've had on the show before. Aged in red wine barrels, and I feel like you totally got a little bit of of that barrel and a little bit of that kind of red wine flavor shining through, because this beer is like really like a farmhouse beer, and I think Asian red wine barrels. It's got this really really nice, harmonious, balanced flavor that was

imparted to it, and I really enjoyed it. And man, these I feel like brain Dead. I've never even heard of them until Jared sent us a couple of bottles, but I really like what they're doing. Yeah, definitely a big fan as well. I'm with you though, like it's got that farmhouse flavor but without a lot of funk. You know, it's not like a funky farmhouse and the flavors I get from like those wine barrels. It's less

of like the wine flavor. It's more of like the dryness that you get out of a red wine with sort of like that oak. And I was smelling it and it kind of smells like pineapple for whatever reason. To me, it smells like kind of almost tropical, like it's got this acidity like fruitness to it. But it drinks real mellow like a barrel aged farmhouse just like it is. So I don't know this. This is a fantastic beer. We've had a few of the others as well, and they were all really great. So, man, if you

are in Dallas, need to be checking out brain Dead brewing. Yep, let's go to Dallas and uh it up in person. I'm totally up for that, all right, so quickly, Matt, let's get to our final thoughts. I have one final thought. Pay attention to the fees and your retirement Again's all you need to do. That's all we got to say. Look at what you're paying to invest for your future. If you are paying a lot, you're gonna have a

lot less money in the end. Wake up, pay attention, make sure that you know what your fees are, how you're being feed and charged, and then make sure you're taking the steps to work towards paying less of those fees. And it's never been easier to pay less in fees than it is now. So many good options and uh yeah, so we'll link to those in the show notes, and uh to find those show notes, you can check out

our website how to money dot com. And if you enjoy this episode and found it helpful, we would love to hear from you our listeners. Head over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a review. We'd appreciate it. Yeah. If you think we've got work to do, we need to get better, go to how the money dot com. Slash do better and drop us the line there. We appreciate your constructive criticism too, and so joel. Until next time, Best friends out, best friends out, best friends out, m M m