Cash, Debit, or Credit? #149

not always actively thinking about it. Oh I think I'm gonna use this form of purchasing today, but it is something that we have to think about. And there are different benefits, different pitfalls to each one, and so we have to discuss those and I think hopefully people at the end of this will have a better idea of how they should be making their purchases, whether it's with cash, debit or credit cards exactly. But before we get into that, Matt,

I think we should talk quickly. You and I we had little dudes recently and they are a few months old now. It's been a fun time also a time of very little sleep. But one thing that we need to do. As you know, we have expanded our families, and that other people should think about as they go through big life changes. Is like kind of questioning how much life insurance you have and whether it's enough. We cover this topic quite a while back, but it's important

to consider potentially laddering your life insurance. Let's say you already have a policy, but you feel like you need more. Well, when you have in addition to your family, that usually means increased costs, and that might mean a need for increased insurance coverage. And so I don't know about you,

I'm revisiting the topic. I feel like actually probably already had too little to begin with, and so I'm planning on kind of shopping for another policy to kind of ladder so that my family has enough coverage in case the terrible, unfortunate event happens of me passing away early. Nice man, Yeah, this is an excellent time to revisit the kind of insurance that we have. And specifically, like

you and I, we both have term life insurance. For me. Specifically, my policy is good until I'm fifty two years old, and so I'm hoping, you know, fingers crossed that by then, I might be financially independent. That actually might be an instance when a life insurance policy may not be as crucial, right, because if you're financially independent, you don't need your own source of income to provide income for your family where you did not be there. Yeah, and I wrote an

article about this, it's on the website. Will link to it in the show notes. Specifically, the reason to buy term life insurance is for replacement of income, and so people oftentimes use it for other reasons that aren't necessary. And yes, in particular, if you're financially independent, you don't really need life insurance because you don't have income that needs replacing. But yeah, I think especially I just want people to think about this. As you know, we just

had these life event changes. And I think any time you get married, you change jobs in your income is different, or you move even to a new house and the mortgage payments are higher, or you have another child, like these are the kind of events that you at least need to reassess. It doesn't necessarily mean you need more or you need to buy a new policy. And one other quick thing to mention too, is that if you have a policy through your employer, well in all likelihood,

it's not enough. If you just went through open enrollment and you think that you're solid because your employer offers a certain amount of life insurance just straight up to you for free or for for a certain amount of money, well it's probably not enough coverage. Think about it, do the research, read that article, and make sure that you are properly insured, because that's really important. It's it's really

cheap to write. Term life insurance is so dirt cheap now there's just not much of an excuse to avoid getting it. Well, that's the thing. It may not necessarily be cheap for us now because I mean, I'm ten years older than when I got my first policy, but when you're younger, it is it's very affordable. Term life is it's very affordable. It's something along the lines of thirty bucks a month. It does increase every year you

get older. So I am very curious to see what the rates are going to be if I were to kind of attack on some additional coverage sort of in in our case, I think we'd be looking at layering instead of laddering more for the short term now when we would definitely need it. Um and you know, Another instance to consider beefing up your coverage is if your borderline cheap and not frugal, and if maybe skimmed out a little bit too much on the front end. You know,

you kind of mentioned that. I think that's where we are with it now as well. And it's not that we were necessarily being cheap at the time. I didn't think I was being cheap when I as when you got it, you didn't have any kids exactly, We didn't, well, we didn't have any kids. We also, you know, we had one property at that point, we were pretty young. We didn't we had fewer expenses. Your circumstances have changed

and changed another look, yeah, they have changed significantly. And so if that's the case for you, that you know, that's what you want to keep in mind, and you're looking at the different types of coverage out there. Yeah, I might have been a touch cheap, like it touched not not thinking about it as long term as I should have. And at the same time, also my circumstances have changed a good bit and so for both reasons, it's time to revisit. But okay, Matt, enough about life insurance.

Love talking term life insurance. So cheap, so beautiful. But you know what else is beautiful with the label on this beer, we're checking Bourbon Barrel Orro Negro from Jackie O's our final beer that they sent us. And man, this one I'm really excited about having on the show today. And we'll give our thoughts on this one at the end of the episode and before we forget. If you happen to be anywhere near Athens, Ohio and you're into beer,

you can't miss Jackie Os. Make sure you swing by there. Dude, I know that if we go anywhere near Ohio and the near future, we are totally going to spend like a few days. They're just hanging out with us. Guys. You I already know that this brewery is worth a long distance drive because the beers are so good and that people are so good there. All right, Matt, let's get onto the topic at hand. We're talking about cash, debit,

or credit. It's important to consider how we pay. How we pay for things has a lot of implications for us. Some payment methods are more secure than others, Some provide better rewards peace of mind, or or might even cause us to spend less of our money. Are hard earned money. So how can we know whether we should be pulling out debit card or a credit card, or should we even stick to using cash. It's kind of old school, but that's how a lot of people roll right. Cash

seems to help them stick to their spending plans. Well, we're going to discuss the pros and the cons and why how you pay is so important in this episode. Yeah, before we launch into you know that the cash, debit or credit debates. How about you know the different apps out there, right, the mobile payment platforms like zel or, Venmo and cash app. Those folks are blowing up, man. It is so easy to pay for goods and services and to just settle up with friends via those apps.

I personally use Venomo, cash App and PayPal all the time. Like seriously on the rag and Joel, you know you mentioned the differing amounts of security, Like all these different apps. They use the highest level of encryption to ensure you know that their apps are secure, so your money doesn't just straight up and vanish, right. That is no fun vanishing money like that sucks, but at least you have

a good story. Right. However, though, there are almost no protections for you if you make a user error if you send money to the wrong person. Right, So if you just send it to the wrong gym on the app, man, you are out of luck. I recently mentioned my Venomo mistake and that's exactly what happened to me. But luckily the person on the other end was kind enough to

refund me. But here's the thing, if you are a recipient of some errant funds, don't immediately refund that money because there's a chance you might be, you know, the potential victim of some frauds. So you know, we would recommend for you to reach out to customer support of that specific app. You just want to make sure things around the up and up before you send money back their way. Yeah. I mean, the thing is with with those apps, it takes a couple of days for the

money to actually go through. It looks like you just got the money, but it actually hasn't hit your account for a couple of days typically, and so because of that, the person that paid you the money could stop the payment with their bank, and that means you never actually got the money even though it looks like you did. So those apps are fantastic for a lot of reasons.

They made things so much easier, especially settling up bills between friends, paying a landlord for your rent, or all these ways that these apps have just kind of really helped to make it easier for us to send money to each other. But be careful of paying the wrong person, or be careful if you mistakenly received funds to Matt, that's a good point, all right. Let's get into cash, debit, and credit in particular. Let's start with cash. Matt, it's

so old school, man. People still use cash though, right. Do you carry cash in your wallet typically on like a daily basis. I always try to keep a twenty in there. I'm kind of an old school in that sense, you know, don't like Dad's always care around like it's twenty in your wallet just just in case for emergencies. Yeah, for sure, that's me. Yeah. I like to carry like a five and a few ones if you need a tip for something random or I don't know, just it's

nice to have a few bucks on hand. But for the most part, man, I don't really use cash for It's kind of like that backup for me in my wallet, but it's not something I typically make purchases with. Ye back up only for sure. Yeah, because ultimately there aren't any rewards to be earned when we pay with cash unless a store offers a cash discount, which is also rare. So the biggest benefit though, of paying in cash is

that you'll likely spend less. Study show that we have a harder time parting with physical currency than we do paying with plastic. It just kind of hurts a little more to actually open up your wality, your purse, pull the cash out and hand it over. There's just a feeling that we get that psychologically it means more to us than the swipe of the card. It almost feels like we're not actually spending money when we do that.

So basically, the major upside of us actually using more cash in our lives to pay for things is a behavioral one. It's a behavior modification system of payment that forces us to think a little bit more before we actually go through with the purchase. So yeah, I think that is probably the biggest reason to actually pay with cash a little more often. Is that sort of double

take that we have to do before we actually buy something. Yeah, and Joe, And another awesome benefit of only using cash is that it can help us to stick to a budget if you know, if you have a set amount of money that you've decided to spend on let's just say craft beer in our example, my favorite example, then once you run out of cash, guess what you are done spending money. This is especially helpful for discretionary purchases like going out for drinks, eating out, and even groceries.

Right sometimes it can be tempting if we see some delicious looking fruit or veggies, maybe it's time to load up. Or ice cream bacon bacons on sale. Man, you buy that and freeze it. But paying in cash means that you only buy stuff that you can actually afford, and it also ensures that you won't pay interest on the items that you buy where you to buy those items on credit. But cash also has kind of an ugly downside.

You could lose your wallet because you're carrying too much cash around, and that can be a bit nerve wracking. A lot of folks love the envelope system, kind of putting your money into envelopes for the specific line items in your budget, and then when you run out of cash, you run out of cash and you don't have any

money left for the rest of the month. But I can't really imagine carrying around hundreds of dollars in cash myself, Matt to the grocery store wherever I'm going, and it just seems a little cumbersome, and also just having that much cash on your person. I just don't like that idea. So, really, if we're going to get practical with it, we purchased so many things online today that it makes it kind of impossible to use cash for a lot of those purchases.

It's just not convenient, and so I think because of those reasons, using cash is helpful for a small segment of people, but isn't necessarily a great solution for most folks. Yeah, shopping online, man, I would love to know the actual percentage of Americans who do some form of shopping online. It's got to be huge, right, Oh, yeah, at least some form a huge percentage of us. A majority of our money is still overwhelmingly spent in retail stores, but

it's shifting quickly. And so those folks who are typically using cash but do want to make online purchases, a lot of those folks are using debit cards because of that convenience, because they can actually make those purchases online. So we're gonna talk about debit cards and what we really think about them right after the break. All right, Matt, let's get into it. What do we really think of debit cards? Most people seem to kind of have a

high view of debit cards. They're basically like credit cards. There's no real difference. So I feel more comfortable using my debit card. Why not? I think a lot of folks think that by using these debit cards they're gonna gain that convenience of paying in plastic and the ability to shop online, which is true. But folks think that with debit cards they have the same level of security that they have with credit cards, and this is not true, and that, in my mind, is the biggest reason why

debit cards are not a great option for folks. Specifically, those protections that are offered to you when you pay with a credit card. There's so much better than the protections that you have when you pay with a debit card. Yeah. Man, if you don't report a fraudulent purchase with your debit card within two days of it occurring, you could be on the hook for up to fifty dollars right if you do happen to notice it within sixty days, you

could be liable for up to five in charges. But if you don't noticed that fraud within sixty days or longer, you could lose all of your money. I can guarantee you that the protections that credit cards offer are much better than that. Yeah, Matt our friend Kenzie, she recently had her purse stolen and her debit card taken out and someone started using it as a way. I didn't know this, yeah, as if they were her she she posted in our Facebook group about it, and you know what,

a debit card just doesn't have the same protections. Fortunately, she notified the bank immediately within that two day period. But if you didn't notice right away, and you didn't notify your bank, like you said, that timeline just kind of grows, and every day that you wait, basically, the more you can be on the hook for. And it's also money that's been taken out of your account that you're waiting to get refunded back to you. The money

is gone for the time being. So when you use a credit card, you would be disputing in the case of fraud, for money that you would owe to the credit card company. But when someone racks up those charges on your debit card, that cash is gone and you have to fight to get it back, and so that can cause other issues while you're waiting for your bank to look into the situation and issue you a refund. Some banks will provide a provisional credit, but not all

of them. They don't have to. They're not legally required to. You can always report your bank to the CFPB if they aren't treating you fairly, but it's just a crummy process to go through. And so, yeah, I think for these reasons, these protection reasons that are in place for debit card or credit card users, they're just stronger for credit card users, and because of that, it just makes debit cards just not nearly as good as an option for us to use. Yeah, man, they are certainly not

great options. But here's the thing. By the same token, the same aspect of debit cards can actually help you to control your spending right. The fact that it is your actual money can help you. What is good about debit cards is that you are only accessing money that you actually have in your accounts, and that can be helpful if you tend to overspend and find yourself at the end of the building cycle owing more to your

credit card than you actually have. While you can increase the limit on your credit card, you can't do that with your checking account that would be frowned upon by the bank you can do that, So in this way, debit cards are similar to cash. Once you've spent that money, you can't keep spending. You're done. Basically, what it comes down to with the debit card is that we should

probably avoid them all together. Ultimately, the only debit card upside is the one you just mentioned, is that we can't spend more than we have, except for we kind of actually can at times if we allow our bank to give us the option of overdrafting our account, And if we do that, we're racking up exorbitant fees for the privilege of spending more money than we actually have, which is also a terrible idea, right exactly, So, even that one positive reason doesn't make it worth it to

use debit cards. In our opinion, pretty much, the only time I'm pulling out my debit card these days is when I actually need to get cash for some random reason, which is very very rare. Yeah, you gotta replenish your stock of your one five dollar bill and your your three ones that you like to keep in your wallet eight dollars specifically at all times. I like to have it on And it's just a nice round number. It's kind of a random amount, right, When do you need

more than that? Really? Though? Well there's four, you've got four bills. That's the thing for me. I just like having a singular bill, like just having a twenty in there. What if you gotta tip somebody though I don't tip, Okay, all right, all right, no, I'm kidding. This actually recently

happened to us because here a quick story. Kate and I we were eating out and they took forever getting our food to us, and we didn't complain or anything, but our waiter just realized how long we were waiting, came over, explained to us the situation, said that dinner was gonna be taken care of, which was a huge tree. I mean, we were sitting there was a date night, and so we were having a great conversation, but we still wanted to make sure that we were tipping on

what our bill would have been. And so because she didn't actually bring us a check, I got up and went to the bar broke my twenty that way, we can still leave, you know, a generous tip. So to answer your question, what do I do if I need to leave a tip? You just take a little visit to the bar. Makes everything better there you go, all right, I'll acknowledge that that worked out for you in that

circumstance without one time I worked out. Yeah. Ultimately, with debit cards, there's no in greased friction, so it's pretty easy just to kind of swipe that card. The benefit that you have with cash is that it's psychologically harder to actually spend it. And if you were using an actual credit card, you would receive benefits and protections that come with using a credit card. You don't have those with a debit card. So that's why we would say

probably avoid debit cards altogether. Yeah, well, here's a quick question for you. Debit cards are tied to checking accounts. How do you feel about old school paper checks? Oh? I think checks are pretty much kind of a bad way to go now to especially with identity theft and if someone sole your purse or stole your checkbook, they have access to your routing number, your account number. That's

just not a good place to be. And honestly, checks are kind of for the most part, in most circumstances for us as individual consumers, that kind of gone the way of the Dodo bird. I mean, I know that they're useful in some circumstances for businesses, but really, when we're talking about how we spend as individuals, checks are just kind of a thing of the past, I think

in a lot of ways. Yeah, but again, and plus, I mean the security aspect of it, right, I mean, I'm not a professional thief or anything, but the fact that the routing number and your account number are right there on a check, I'm pretty sure that is all that a criminal would would need to impersonate you to find a way to try to steal some of your money. So forge checks, I mean, that's a real thing too. So I have a check book, I keep it at home. If I ever need to write a check, I have

access to that. I probably write like two a year maybe, I mean, I just it's very, very very rare that I actually need to write a check, especially, like we mentioned at the beginning of the show, with apps like Venmo and cash App and more people accepting credit cards and those alternative forms of payment, I mean, checks are just kind of not something that I even think about anymore. Yeah, bottom line checks do not offer any sort of security. Neither do debit cards. But you know what does are

credit cards. And there are lots of benefits to using a credit card properly, and we're gonna get to all of those right after the break. All right, Matt, we're back from the breaking. It's time to talk about kind of that last part of our triumvirate cash, debit or credit. Let's talk credit cards now. And I don't want to

overseell how great credit cards are. I don't want to make this an episode about how cash is terrible and debit cards are terrible and you should only use credit cards for every purchase ever that you make in your life. But honestly, that's ultimately kind of where I come down. I wonder what you're gonna say, because it's we're gonna say, but you might want to consider it, Yeah, but you really might want to think about it if you can

handle credit cards. Well, really, it's just our favorite option for people who are able to do that. If you pay your bill infol at the end of every month, and it's not going to cause a bunch of unnecessary spending in your life, then credit cards just are the best bet. And I'm sure you can kind of already figure out a couple of the reasons why, but we're gonna go into a few details on why credit cards just are the best choice for people when they're spending money.

The obvious downside is that it's just so easy to swipe or insert that chip and not even give it a second thought to the purchase that you made. So it's again it's a behavioral thing that credit cards actually can make it easier for you to to spend more money because the swipe or the insert just doesn't have that same effect as pulling out a twenty dollar bill out of your wallet. You could go super old school.

You can keep a ledger, you could write down every purchase that you make with your card, and that can help a lot. But but lots of folks just they're not going to do that. Right the dollar Bird app, Matt, We've mentioned that before. That can be a great way to while you're on the go, kind of record your purchases that you make with the credit card. And I think I can help people use their credit card more

effectively so that they are keeping track. Tracking is like a huge way to actually like lessen the potential downsides of of using your credit card. I think, yeah, well, I mean what's at the core of this is just being aware that you're spending money, right. I think that's one of the reasons cash is so effective at that is because you mean you literally see it leave your purse and versus when you use your card, you either

just swipe it or you just insert the chip. Your card looks the exact same before and after that transaction. It's not like a little piece of your card broke off and and you're never going to get it back. And so either way, whether it you do go old school and kind of write transactions down or whether you use an app like dollar Bird, you're basically just trying to confront the purchases that you're making. You're trying to create a step in there that forces you to look

at what you're spending your money on. Steady Pay that's another app that's launched recently that attempts to marry the benefits that you do get from using credit cards, but with the accountability that comes with money actually leaving your

checking account and quickly you know. The kind of the way it works is After linking your credit card and your checking accounts to the app, you just use your credit card like you normally would, and steady Pay automatically draft your checking account to cover your balance for the expenses that you've had that day, and so you know, while you are not seeing every single expense register, you know in your checking account, you do get to keep

up with your money a little more immediately than waiting, you know, till the end of the month, or even agree if you're waiting until the end of the building cycle before you truly realize how much money you've actually spent. Yeah, I think seeing that updated daily balance of what you actually have in your checking accounts is so huge because

it's that mental hurdle. Sometimes people are like, if I have a credit card and I can't see the money actually leaving my account, well, then I'm not gonna be able to handle it well. And so steady Pay can be kind of that happy medium where you're using a

credit card. You're getting the protections that a credit card has to offer, but at the same time, you're seeing the money leave your account because it reflects that it actually is actually pulling that money out and it's gonna help you have that money set aside to pay your bill at the end of the month. It's a neat idea. And if that is kind of your hurdle to being able to use a credit card, well then it might make sense for you to check out Steady Pay. Yeah.

So let's get to the reasons why we are such proponents of credit cards, and that's basically just due to the benefits that you receive from the different cards that are out there, the different rewards and protections that they offer. You know, there's price matching guarantees, there's sign up bonuses, travel miles, rental insurance. We've talked about that recently. These are all things that you most often hear about. But

here's the thing. You still need to make sure that you're handling your credit cards carefully and that you're not getting carried away with it just for the rewards. Yeah. There's an article I read recently, Matt. It specifically was kind of calling out millennials, because man, isn't every article calling out millennials. It feels like millennials do this, they're idiots.

It just it kind of is overkill at times. But this article had some really interesting stuff to share that a lot of millennials in particular love using credit cards to get rewards. That's us right at me, Yeah, yeah, I love credit card rewards, but a lot of them didn't realize that that by not paying off their balances in full every month, they were paying a far too hefty price in order to earn those rewards. When you're paying seventeen to and interest charges, the benefits aren't worth

the cost. And so a lot of folks out there that think they're using credit card rewards, well, but they're not paying off their balances, well, no you're not. That's just that's not worth it. Basically, that's just something to to watch out for, and I don't think we can stress it enough. More than anything, if you can't pay your balance off and full at the end of the month,

credit cards are probably not a good idea for you. You You shouldn't be spending more on them, because no interest charge is worth any sort of reward that you're getting from a credit card. If that's the case, you need to consider switching to using cash more frequently, because that can kind of be the incentive to maybe break a

spending habit that you have. And as you find yourself working out of debt once your credit card debt hits zero, and if you change the way you handle those credit cards in the future, then and only then does it make sense to go back to actually using credit cards in your life. Yeah, it's so important to know your personal spending habits and how you actually handle credit. But if you are handling it well, then there are numerous benefits that you will receive from using that credit card.

Let's talk about unauthorized chrges. The protections that purchasing with a credit card offers you are one of the most compelling reasons to use a credit card. Thank to the Fair Credit Building Act, your liability is capped at fifty dollars from fraudulent transactions if your card is stolen or if your card information is stolen. And unlike using a debit card, you aren't using your money. When you pay

for something, no cash has actually left your hands. Yet by using a credit card, you are not only protecting the overall amount that you can be held liable for, but you're also protecting your current cash from vulnerability. Yeah. Another thing that credit cards do as you use those as opposed to the other methods of payment, is that they're building your of course, wait for it, credit score.

Aside from those monthly payments or any loans that you might have, will paying your credit card bill on time and or early will contribute to having a really high credit score. There are many reasons that having a high credit score is good for you. We've talked about that multiple times on the show. Some cards, secured cards in particular, can help you build credit when you're starting from scratch.

So let's say you have a poor credit score, you haven't used credit well in the past, Well, going with a secured card, which basically means that you put the money down up front. A secured card has similarities to a debit card, but it's so much better. That's helping you build your credit back up when you're starting from scratch. And other cards, through smart and regular use are contributing to a strong credit score, and that has important impacts

on many areas of your life. So yeah, using those credit cards well isn't just good for the protections that you'll get, but it's gonna be a boonteer credit score man, you're talking about credit score? Is that's such like a nerdy benefit of using your credit cards well, like obviously it's a real benefit. But like I'm in I'm in it for the other rewards, right. Well we're nerdy fellas, Yeah, we like to cover the nerdy aspects of money, and

sure a nerd out on that stuff. But I also and into the cash back, right, like these other benefits that the credit cards offer on top of the different protections that you can get I'm talking about, like the different travel awards, cash back rewards. The better credit cards that are out there will offer some of those pretty sweet secondary benefits. I mean, I know, for me, the main reason I signed up for my first credit card

ever was for that cash bag bonus. You know, I heard that by using this card you receive your percentage back every single statement. And man, you know what, how the money Matt was really into that before I was even how the money Matt. And while a good many of them are being stripped away by credit card issuers, you can actually still nab price protection. That's a pretty cool benefit. You can still get that benefit on a few select cards. And there are many more cards that

are actually offering the different extended warranties on purchases. So if you know you're about to make an expensive electronics purchase, make sure that you put that on a card that will offer to double the manufacturer's warranty. It's hard to beat that free piece of mind. Yeah, the rewards that credit cards can offer can be really really sweet, can be enticing, and we're fans of kind of taking the advantage of the sign up bonuses, of the cash back

of travel rewards. I mean, there are all these ways to use credit cards effectively. So, man, I actually just mentioned my first credit card, and I think I specifically remember that being a Discover card because I had heard that they were the ones offering that cash back, even though I think a bunch were at the time. Do you remember your specific first credit card, Man, I honestly don't remember the credit card. I guy, Yeah, I'm trying to think back right now, but it doesn't ring a bell.

It's not registering. I think for me, I just felt like such a grown up, right because I'm like, oh, I'm building my credit. Like I specifically remember my dad saying you need to learn how to use credit. You got a bount your credit score, and as a kid entering adulthood, I just thought, cool, I get to have a credit card, you know. I wasn't thinking about the

long term effects, but it certainly helped me over the years. Yeah, I think I was a little nervous to open a credit card for a while, based on kind of my family history with credit cards, and you know, we wracked up debt when I was growing up, My my my family did and and so I was just kind of a little apprehensive about using them. And so I understand too where people are coming from why they're nervous about

using credit cards. I'm pretty sure the first card I ever got was the Fidelity two percent cash back credit card. Such a nerdy, grown up card. Again, you're talking about your credit score. You got the Fidelity two percent card, that was your first one. I've had that one for a long time, so I think that's my oldest one,

all right, I'm glad it came to you. If not, I think it was a capital one because they had zero percent foreign transaction fees before that's kind of became industry standard and a lot of issuers started offering that. But yeah, those are the cards I've had the the longest. But ultimately, like I said, I understand why people are apprehensive, and I think there are good reasons for people to consider not using a credit card, in particular if you've had problems with them in the past or if you're

currently in credit card debt. But I think also we've pointed out just all these reasons that using a credit card is beneficial if they are unauthorized charges on your account, there's these cash back bonuses. I mean, there are all these reasons that paying with a credit card makes more

sense than paying with cash or debit. I think it's important to highlight those reasons at least give people some food for thought, Like, what am I using to make my my everyday purchases and it doesn't actually make sense? Is this the right form of payment for me to be using? And in some cases using cash might be right for us, and in other cases using it might

be right. Well what about debit? I noticed you didn't mention debit cards at all, So yeah, I mean, I'm just like, really, when I think about it, logically, I just don't know that there's much room for debit cards in our lives. I just side with either credit cards or cash. And I guess the only time debit cards would make sense is if you are in a lot of credit card debt. You can't handle spending on credit cards.

You have to only use what's in your account, and you want to make online purchases, well cash isn't gonna work for that, so debit card really is then kind of your only option. But yeah, I think it's important to at least think through through these things, kind of know the potential pros and cons of each, and I think that'll just help us make better decisions. Yeah. But in the end, man, it's worth mentioning that credit cards can be so good for for you in your bottom

line if you can be disciplined with your spending. So Joel, let's talk now, though about some beer. I'm gonna go ahead and kick it off with my thoughts on this beer, on the Orro Negro. And here's the thing, let's talk about Jackie as Man. Like all of their beers that we've had from them, they're all perfectly balanced. And this is even harder to do with all the different flavors in a beer like this, where there are so many

different flavors going on. You got the cocoa nibs, you got the peppers, like there's that amount of heat, you got the sweetness from the bourbon barrel, there's when there's so many sort of flavors like that competing for your attention. It takes a level of finesse and experience to rain all those flavors in and to deliver them in a way that you know sits well in your mouth. And they have completely succeeded. This is a fantastic beer. And

what's the Girl Scout Cookie? Is it the Samoa's that kind of have like the coconutt e cocona nitty sort of flavor. My mind kept going to that cookie. And there's not necessarily like coconut flavors specifically in this beer, but just the combination of all of those flavors together totally made me think of Samoa's, except of course, this beer is a much more grown up version of that beloved cookie. Yeah, man, this beer was awesome. I feel like we truly saved the best for last from Jackie

O's and they were all great. Everything they put into this beer. I could taste each little element. Everything was there, But like you said, they were kind of perfectly harmonized, like they really really hit the nail on the head. You really got a little bit of everything in this stout that in my mind was kind of a stout of epic proportions. I love the touch of the habba narrow heat. I feel like that it wasn't overwhelming, but it was just a little bit in the back of

your throat. And I love that in kind of a Mexican style stout like this is combined with the vanilla and the cinnamon and the cocoa like it's, man, it really is kind of this symphony of flavors going on in this big burly stout. It was really really well done. Mad props to the folks of Jackie O's for basically not just hitting a home run like this is a Grand Slam. This is like a walk off, bottom of the ninth, two outs grand Slam. This was such a good beer. Man deep with that analogy, are and ship

I went hole hog on that one. Well, here's here's the thing. Like you said, this is a big burly stout, but it's burly in like all the different flavors, but it's not barely over the top. And how it drinks is that one of these beers that you have a few SIPs and you're almost tired of because it's just so overwhelming. They've delivered just the right amount of flavor and at the perfect time as well. Right, like each flavor is kind of around every single corner. As you

drink this beer, it couldn't be any more enjoyable. And something else too, like the name of it Oro Negro. Do you know what that means? I looked it up actually ahead of time, black Gold. Yeah, you took Spanish, so you remember something. So I'm proud of you. All right, I got lucky there, I think, But well I am impressed, sir. Yeah, honestly, beer was so good, Jackie O's so good to us. Send it some good beers our way. Thank you the

folks over there for sending these beers. It's a pleasure to get to try something that we don't even get here in Georgia. Yeah, man, let's go ahead and wrap it up. You can find our show notes on our website at how to money dot com. We'll have our show notes up there, along with some of the links to the different apps that we mentioned, as well as an article to some of our favorite credit cards that offer some of the best benefits if you think you

can handle the challenge of using a credit card. Yeah, and of course, as always, we hope that you learned something and that you found it interesting. Matt and I have such a good time creating this show. It's fun for us to record this together. And then we also appreciate your feedback. And if you've got feedback that you're willing to share, well, feel free to leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Those reviews really help other people find out about the show, and that helps spread the word

about good money habits. All right, Matt, that's going to do it for this episode. Yeah, So until next time, best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,