Welcome to had to Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt, and today we're going to answer some of your listener questions.
We hope that you are having a great start to your week, and even better to start to your week now that you're listening to the wonderful tones of Joel's voice sitting across from me.
We answered something. We released one episode a little late last week, Matt, just like a couple hours later a few weeks ago, and somebody in the Facebook group was like, no, man, Joel on my morning walk, and we're sorry. We'll try to do better. I try to do better. We like to accompany you on your marble.
Well, and I don't know if anyone knows this, but the actual time that we set the episodes to publish, man, I feel like there is a high degree of accountability now that I'm actually saying all this out loud. I always set it for four am Eastern for whatever reason in my mind. That's just like that's when I wanted to show up and everyone's podcast.
And even then it can show up like an hour to later or something.
That, but at least it well, it depends on when your phone basically when whatever your app is reaching out for that data, right.
But now we've got.
Great listener questions to get to today. A listener is wondering what she should do about multiple retirement accounts. Maybe there's a way to simplify things. Another listener is wondering how to budget for a new home, specifically how to take into account the sale of their current home and managing.
Your kids allowance.
It's a little bit trickier than perhaps it seems on the surface. We'll get to those plus more personal finance topics during today's episode.
The last one you mentioned is gonna also involve the digital versus analog divide. We'll give it to that as well, because there I think are pros and cons in both sections. But Matt, before we get to listener questions, we've got a listener email a couple of weeks ago from listener Brian and I don't know. I love getting emails from people who have not only made changes to their own personal finance life, but they're using what they've learned to
help other people. And Brian, he said he's been listening for a long time, actually said, I think the first time he listened our episode was out of brewery in Atlanta. So well, that's perfect. Yeah, I know right, I must have missed the email. I didn't see it, so mad. Props to Brian slip through the cracks drinking good beer. But also one of the cool things he's done over the years is he's gotten more just interested in personal
finance and his knowledge has grown. What he did was he went to his employer and he said, hey, listen, can I teach a personal finance class to the folks on my job? He's in law enforcement? And they were like, yeah, why not. I guess so and so he is like this has been like an effort wholly led by him, with now the approval of the superiors. That's so good.
And he's getting emails now after leading some of these courses some of the people he's been working with who've been in that department for twenty plus years and they're saying, oh my gosh, I wish I had known this when I first started on the job. Just incredible, Like it's one thing to make a lot of change in your
own personal life. It's something we applaud. It's incredile, but so nothing to pass it on, whether that's in an individual relationship to friend or family member, or to stranger sometimes I don't know, I random stranger combos about money every once in a while. And then to your coworkers, like the people you work with every day. To be able to pass out on is just beautiful. Totally.
Yeah, I do think there's a big difference in feeling like that. You have to feel one hundred percent qualified to stand in front of a room of your peers and be able to explain safe withdrawal rates or something like a little more complicated like that, as opposed to
having a conversation about money. And that's what we strive for here on the show is to basically make personal finances, to make money more common of a conversation, like we do not want it to remain a taboo topic and like it has so often, And even just asking a question if you're you don't have to be able to deliver all the information, but even just raising a question like that alone right there to the fact that you're showing curiosity. I think for some folks might be.
One of the first times.
It might be like the first time they've ever heard someone talk about money outside of like, oh, the price of gas or or something crazy superficial or a little bore shallow, right, and that in their mind stands out for you. You're listening to hot of money and so you hear this talked about all the time, but for them it might be something that has like completely been off of their radar, the fact that someone would actually want to talk about that and would have an interest
in that. So, yeah, kudos was it, Brian? Brian, Brian for doing that, not to mention showing initiative like that at work.
Yeah, that's how you.
Get paid more seriously as well in promotion today.
Oh, Brian's a very valuable member of Yeah, yes, I totally love that. The thing you mentioned, I think it's bears repeating is you don't have to be some sort of financial brainiac in order to pass on the information that you have, right, Yeah, you don't have to be like, I'm not as smart as Matt and you know what, I say that all the time, I'm not as smart as mental please, But you don't have to be that like brilliant off the chart one hundred and fifty IQ when it comes to money to be able to pass
on what you know. And sometimes it's just saying like listen, wow, I heard this fact last week, or man, I didn't realize how good the HSA could be to a fellow cowork or whatever it is. It can be small, or it can be within the realm of what you know and what you know really well. You don't feel like you got to be some sort of like a trained financial professional in order to be able to tell other people some of the good stuff that you've been learning.
That's right, speaking of HSA is that's actually one of the questions we're going to get to during today's episode. But first we have to introduce our first crappy beer of the episode, because we're going to enter into the what we do this for about three weeks or so of us drinking I'm I can't even call it craft beer, So it's going to be beer that isn't so great.
It's called crap beer.
We are today drinking a Covista, which is a Mexican style blogger courtesy of ald and So let's little background. The reason you and I are drinking these not so great craft beers is we had a friendly wager, a little friendly bet going on, and whoever raised the most money in our daffy campaigns. We had competing campaigns going where we were matching listener contributions and the loser was going to be stuck drinking the crappy stuff. And I think you beat me by like one hundred bucks or
something like that. One hundred and fifty bucks, was that.
Right, something something like that. But then you've got a donation like after the fact, and so you're like, you know what, neither of us hit the total we were going for. We're both gonna drink crap.
Heer, Well, I was gonna throw you under the bus since you contributed to your own.
Campaign, to your own campaign, I might have cheated jerk just a little bit.
But that being said, the campaign pages are still up, and so if you want to hop over there, because maybe you completely miss those campaigns, there's still an opportunity for you to give to those campaigns, and we are still matching dollars and so you still have the ability to change lives and give some of your money away.
So for real, seriously, thank you to everyone who did donate to those campaigns. Yeah, you still can, and we're just excited to get the match dollars that get donated some of our favorite nonprofits. So we'll just leave them live until hopefully we reach the total. You still want folks to be able to participate. It doesn't have to be to the charities that Matt and I love, but if you like those charities, we'll guess what your donation gets doubled still, so we'll link to those again in
the show notes for this for this episode. But Matt, let's move on. Let's get to listener questions. If you have a money question and you're like I would love Matt and Joel to tackle this on an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear it. Just got to have the money dot com, slash ask or basically record a voice memo on your phone send it our way. Hopefully we'll take it next week on the show. This first question, though, Matt, comes from a listener in Texas who's thinking upgrade in their house.
Hi, Matt and Joel, this is Tanya from Tyler, Texas. I have a question regarding how to budget for a new home when factoring and selling a starter home. We bought our starter home back in twenty eleven and says sin and has more than double in value. We also don't owe very much on it, as we always put a little extra towards it each month. It is quite small, but hasn't felt that way until recently. My husband works from home now and we had our first baby last year.
We're hoping to add another soon. We're wanting to purchase our next home, possibly our forever home, for our growing family, something a little larger and with a better office space, but I'm stuck on figuring out what we can afford after selling our starter home. What advice do you all have? Thank you for all you do. You're ever niece Texas. Check out Truebne Brewery and Tyler first round.
On this Ooh, Tanya, a very generous offer. We'll have to We might actually take you up on that next time we make it down to the great state of Texas. It's been a little bit longer, Joe since you've been there. That's where there's a deal to what was it? South Padre Island is where I took my family to got that Southwest deal.
I'm no Spanish expert, but I will say that probably means South Dad Island.
You do no more Spanish than me, and so I will have to be further to appropriate. Let's just get to it. Tanya's question, because she mentioned several great pieces of information in here. By the way, she bought her house in twenty eleven, that's awesome because that means she bought a great time obviously before home prices shot up, but that's back when rates interest rates were low, mortgage
rates specifically. But it also means because it was so long ago, it means that you have more than crossed the threshold of how long we would like to see folks commit to living in a home that they buy. And because you've owned the home for I guess thirteen years now, you have avoided one of the biggest pain points that other American homeowners who upgrade homes regularly that they face, which are over the top real estate transaction costs.
This is a real wealth drainer. It doesn't get mentioned enough. And again, given the recent changes to how it does that realtors are getting paid, that might be going away and there might be a little more fluidity when it comes to the housing market, but for the longest time. That is one of the reasons we want folks to stay in their homes for at least three ideally five plus years.
Yeah five to seven, really, I mean minimum three. I mean I don't even know if you're gonna If you said I'm gonna buy a home and sell it three years from now, I always say, don't do it. Interestingly enough, twenty eleven was kind of the trough matt for home prices, so sure there really wasn't a better time to buy anytime in that twenty ten twenty eleven period. You were getting just the lowest prices in a generation, I think for home prices.
I remember owning for a couple of years and seeing home value is on Zillo continue to decline, and I remember thinking, ill, I don't know, did we make the right move because we jumped in back when there is a non refundable tax credit because the year in two thousand and eight you had to pay that tax credit back two thousand and nine. They said, you know what, you just hang on to that.
Yeah.
I think that's when both of us, prior to even knowing each other, said now's the time to buy Relic. She made an even better decision Relic from a bike on era Like, we don't know, no sort of support system in place for want to be homeowners now, But big props to you Tanya for making a good purchase and for holding onto that purchase for so long, and matt Tiny is also not alone in trying to make her current homework the golden handcuffs of a reasonable mortgage
and a low rate. Plus if you were to run the numbers of buying a more expensive home, not just the increased price, but now at a seven plus percent rate, that's made a lot of people feel grateful for what they have.
And it's not that Tanya isn't grateful, but you know what I mean, right Like she's She's like, I'll take the bird in the hand, and maybe I'll hold on to that because it is such a blessing to my monthly budget. It will make you want to hold off
on upgrading as long as possible. But at some point, I think this is true, and I think we're going to see more people moving on from low rates in the future because at some point, no matter how good of a deal you've got, with your families growing and let's say somebody else is working from home and more space becomes a necessity, you got to bite the bullet. You gotta do something, because at some point it becomes untenable to continue to cram more people into that same small space.
Yeah, So let's do our best to offer a few solutions. Antonya, I think one thing that's worth considering is outside of the realm of maybe what you're considering at the moment, which is to renovate your current home instead of buying another again with the mortgage rate that you've gotten, with the massive amount of equity that you have, I think it's worth considering whether or not it would make sense to get some plans r on up, maybe interview some contractors,
try to increase the square footage of your current home. This is literally something that Kate and I are in the middle of doing right now, because when we moved up to where we're living now, we basically we saw our current home as a temporary move. We thought, all right, we'll make that happen, living it for a couple of years, possibly rent it for a few years after that before we sell it. But given where mortgage rates are, given
the lack of inventory on the market. In bottom line, I think over time, we've realized that there is a lot to love about our current home. Essentially, we kind of came into it with a snobbish attitude. We're thinking, wait a minute, this home isn't at least one hundred years old, with loads of charm and character.
And ten foot ceilings.
And because of that, I think we were like, we're not going to be here for all that long. But now we're realizing, oh, you know what, we actually might be here for a decade plus. We could be here until we're empty nesters, which is mind blowing to think through.
And so we're starting to take steps. We have been taking steps to see what it would take in order to make this particular home work for us rather than moving and man just completely being forced to pay so much more every single month, do specifically to hire mortgage rates.
Yeah, and part of that has been you've actually started to enjoy your house more and you like your neighborhood. You like your neighbors. And then the other part of that is the economic, the money side of the equation. And it's like, Okay, all these plos together. If I want the slightly bigger house with a little bit more room, an extra bedroom for the next kid, you're giving up the super lowl mortgage that you have locked in. And
you're in a similar position to Tanya. And it's lifestyle and financial, it's both, it's both, and you've got a factor in both, right. I guess the lifestyle part is the aspect Tanya, that it's worth thinking through. Like the way we were thinking about it is that like, well, this isn't a dream house, this isn't this isn't going
to be a forever home. But I guess the question I'm posing is to think through because the home that you're in it it could be, It could be, and your priorities might change, and maybe in the past you're thinking, oh, this isn't our forever home. And let's be honest, nobody's home is actually their forever home. It's like, okay, more of a long term home than maybe you thought. But your priorities changed and the things that you care about change. So part comes up what it is that you are
valuing these days in your life. Yeah, and maybe you've got a big enough lot where you can add on, and the way the house flows and stuff, maybe your house is ripe for a renovation, and maybe that's also
the best fiscal move for you as well. You might find that you can take out a helock in order to add on to the house, giving you all the room that you need, right, allowing you to hang on to the current mortgage, which is essentially like free money if you got it back in twenty eleven and then right, and then you can simultaneously pay off the helock in just a few years time. That could be the slam dunk decision. There could be a lot of other reasons
maybe why you wouldn't make that choice. I mentioned a lot of size. Let's say you're on a post it's stamp sized lot, something really really small, and you're like, nah, it just doesn't work, or actually I want to home with bigger bones in general, but we at least wanted to float that idea because it can make a lot
of financial sense given the current market condition. So if you like where you live and you feel like your house has the ability to it's got the potential to be something great for your family for a long time, it's just in its current state, it's not quite there.
At least think through that. Yeah, and plus it sounds like that maybe everything else about the house or like the neighborhood is working out for her, because what she's specifically mentioning is the square footage, not that actually we want to be closer to in laws. Oh, there's a job relocation that's requiring us to move that sort of thing.
And so truly, if it is about space, maybe you are actually in the home that you're going to be in for the next little while, but maybe there is a bunch of other information that you didn't share with us. Let's say you are going to actually purchase a different home, a new to you house that is, well, how much
should you spend? Well, first of all, take what the lender says with a grain of salt, because you're going to start getting pre approved for loan amounts and you want to make sure that you keep your housing expenses reasonable. And if you go all the way up to your pre approved limit, it's going to feel way too tight when it comes to your month and month, your sort of day to day living, and what you're going to
be spending. In that sense, that's why they call a house formatt that's right, and in all likelihood, you're going to want to put down most, if not all, of the proceeds of your current home towards that next house. I think if if rates were a good bit lower,
that advice actually it probably would be different. But I'd rather take on as little mortgage debt as possible at seven and a half percent, and because of that big equity chunk, you might even be able to keep your mortgage payment very similar in size, which would I think probably be sort of the ultimate goal for you.
But this is a crude rule of.
Thumb, but bottom line, you want to make sure that your payment is less than thirty percent of your take home pay, and honestly even less than that. If you can keep it closer to twenty five percent, then that would be even better. But let's say, for instance, you're monthly after tax pay is something like six thousand dollars, Well we're talking about an eighteen hundred dollars mortgage payment, assuming that you're sticking with that thirty percent goal.
Yeah, yeah, I think that's a I think it's a reasonable approach, and of course it's harder than ever to pull off, given the current housing market and how out of control costs and rates have become. But at least Tanya's got one thing in her corner, which is a ton of home equity, which I think can help maybe defray some of the costs of the upgrade.
So, yeah, you just want the ability to get that loan amount down even further.
That's going to be huge.
Yep, because that's I will say too. This is the like what the typical average American is going to do. Right, Like you, you start off with a home, take the equity out of that home, you roll it into the next one. And there's nothing wrong with that, although we do, I guess we want to push you to consider other alternatives, like there are other options available to you than just doing the typical standard American.
You think, if you want financial freedom, you're going to do some things that are out of the ordinary from what most ordinary Americans are doing. And one of those things is to hold on to a home longer. It is to upgrade and maybe less often. It is to be okay with less space. It is maybe to add on instead of purchasing the nicer house that's going to
strain your budget. All those sorts of things are going to allow you to sock more into your investments, into your savings, so you have a larger amount of financial freedom in your life, which is freeing in and of itself. And if achieving financial independence more quickly is a goal that you have, by the way, you're going to want to avoid being house for that's crucial, right because if
more money than you feel comfortable with. Is going to the mortgage every month, you're going to feel strained in every other area of life. One more random thought to toss your way. It's just at least worth pointing out that if you're interested in becoming a landlord and you like the idea of keeping your current home, the numbers
could work on that too, and maybe quite nicely. Considering again, when you purchase the home and the financing terms that you have, there are tax consequences for this, the two and five year rule that you're going to want to become familiar with, and you'd also have to be ready for the part time job of managing a rental property. But this is another thing that can help your family build wealth and allow you to hold on to a really solid asset so you're upgrading to that next home
that you want to get into. Is going to suit your family better well. If you can save up enough money for a down payment and still have a reasonable mortgage amount and simultaneously hold onto this home, rent it out and make a sweet profit every single month while that home is going up in value at the same time, that can be a best of both worlds approach.
To Yeah, and that is the typical non average American thing to do, which is to hang on to that current home that you have there as an investment. And that's something Joel, that both you and I have done multiple times, the ability to hang on to that low rate while at the same time diversifying your income with a little bit of that additional rental revenue that you got coming in. But Tanya, we hope that gives you plenty to think about and gets you pointed in the
right direction. But Joel, we've got more to get to during this episode. Yeah, we'll talk about simplifying your retirement accounts that more. Right after the break, fin Matt, let's keep rolling.
We've got more money questions to get to. This next one is all about raising financially savvy children.
Hi, Matt and Joel.
My name is Megan and I live in the Dallas area. A few years ago, I listened to y'all's episode about raising financially Savvy kids with Liz Fraser, and afterwards I went and bought her book Beyond Piggybanks and Lemonade Stands. We have since started giving our kids allowance and use
this Bend Save Share Jar system. Our kids are nine, almost seven, and four, and the older two get a dollar a week for their age in years, and our youngest one doesn't get allowance yet, but she might start getting it soon because she keeps watching her brothers get money every week. So currently we have their cash in clear plastic jars, which is great because they can watch their money grow, but they never have their money on them, and so we don't know how much is in each jar,
particularly the spending jar. So my question for you guys is how do you all recommend we keep track of their money in a digital way. If they want to make an impulse purchase at Target or something, I don't know whether or not to say yes because I don't
know what they have in their spending jar. One of the main reasons we started giving them allowance is so that they actually have money to make mistakes with while the stakes are low, and also so that they can learn how to prioritize what they actually want to spend their money on. But I feel like I'm missing the mark because I never know what they actually have to spend.
So I've heard of the green Light credit card or debit card for older kids, and I've thought about just using the split wise app or even a Google sheet. But I'm hoping y'all might have a tip for me here and of course bonus points if it is free.
Thank you so much. I really appreciate you guys.
Take care ooh.
Meghan mentioned a bunch of the different apps and some of the technology that exists out there, but we might be bucking the trend a little bit and provide some less technologically advanced solutions to her problem.
I prefer a chisel and tablet.
Yeah, like, and apicus is a good way of keeping it.
Like your ten commitment style with my record keeping.
Meghan mentioned Liz Frasier. We actually spoke with Liz about like, like you said, you're raising financially savvy. I think that was the name of that episode, Raising Financially Savy Children that was back in episode four twenty seven.
We'll link to that in the show notes.
But Megan, I like, I just love the questions that you're asking because of the fact that you are being this proactive and this intentional with how it is that you're raising your kids. I mean, like you are way ahead of the curve when it comes to kids and money, and I think that means your kids are also going to be way ahead of the way ahead of the curve.
And I guess one thing I want to mention is to keep in mind how it is that you handle and talk about and relate to your finances like in the day to day as opposed to the quote unquote lessons that you're teaching the kids, because I think I think one of the things I've learned, specifically with my ten year old as she's gotten older, is I'm seeing her adopt attitudes towards things that my wife and I share and have similar attitudes towards, even though we have
told her maybe even the opposite, and we're like, no, no, you're supposed to do this, But what we see her doing is what we're actually living out.
In our life. Those you do not as you say yes, yeah.
And so not in regards to finance, has been in regards to other areas in life, and so, Megan, even though you are being incredibly intentional and proactive in this way, which I love, just keep that in mind. The way that you talk about earning money and the money that you're saving up for a big purchase and the like how much things cost. All of these things have an impact on how it is that your your kids are going to see money.
Yeah, the attitudes.
That they're they're going to develop towards their personal they're watching all the time, It's true, and you notice that as they get older and they're mimicking your behaviors, you're.
Like, wait a second, I didn't realize I did that. Oh man, I really did not want them to adopt that same way of relating to whatever it is money or mistakes or something like that, but they really do. So it makes it certainly causes you to pay more attention as a parent. One of the things, by the way, that Megan said in her question, Matt, she said, making mistakes while the stakes are low. That's part of what she's after. And I think that was a huge That's
a brilliant way of thinking about it. Because if you don't teach them young and you're not working on these things, now, guess what the first mistakes are going they're gonna make are gonna be out from under your roof. They're gonna likely be bigger mistakes, harder to remedy, and so I like that sort of approach.
Okay, so that makes me think of did I tell you about again, going back to the ten year old,
the purchase that she made out a volleyball game. She went and saw the Atlanta Vibe, which is like Atlanta's professional women's volleyball team or whatever, and a bunch of the girls that were going they wanted to buy hoodies like merch essentially, and we all know that merch is not cheap, and they like they basically they cost like fifty bucks, these hoodies, And when they came back, some of the parents were really upset that they weren't consulted,
and rightly, so that's a lot of money. But all the kids were like, oh, well, I've got the money, and I think in most cases they did. But it was funny because it sparked a conversation between Kate and I and I thought, man, what a great way to realize whether or not this was a good purchase by making a quote unquote mistake with one zero at the end of it rather than two or three or four
zeros at the end of it. Because ultimately a couple of the girls they had buyer's remorse a little bit because of how much they.
Cost, but also in the moment it sounds awesome.
The moment. It was fun and they were all kind of doing it, and they were thinking that they could get some bunch of the players to sign the hoodies or the jerseys or whatever, and that didn't actually and it didn't happen. There may be a couple of tears.
Shed, but it was a return policy on these.
We love the fact though, that this was a mistake that they were able to make, like super small stakes. Yeah, there wasn't much riding on the line, and these are all small little lessons that are going to inform the future decisions that they make for sure.
And how parents respond to them matters to ye. Yes, yeah, yeah, And that's what I've had to learn too, by the way, with my kids spending money is like it's their money, and I don't I need to think I have less say because it really is their money. That's just something else I've learned as a parent too. And I love that you're using the jar method. By the way, Megan, we actually started off using a digital money money management app called go Henry in our house, Matt, you used
it too, and it's a fantastic app. I'm not trying to throw shade or anything like that, but we realized pretty quickly that it just wasn't right for the age and the stage that we were at when our kids were even younger. The one thing that it did do was it helped with knowing how much money they had at any given time, which is the problem you're running into. It made it easy to send their money money their
way on a recurring basis. That was nice too. But what it didn't do that the jar or the envelope method actually does is helped make money tangible, right, And so I love giving my kids real dollar bills and then funneling those dollars into the various quote unquote accounts every single week, their give, save, and spend accounts, and so I do think that's a helpful way to connect the dots for preteens and for younger kids, I think it's best to save the apps typically for when they're older.
So much depends on your kids, your family, how you guys roll. But for us, I think we we went digital first, and we realized we need tangible first, analog first, we'll move to digital later on. Yep.
In that way, we're taking more of the Jonathan Height approach. Well, we're delaying the use of the apps and phones for some of those those later teenage yeers. And by the way, Megan mentioned the green Light app, which is also that's very similar to Go Henry. We like what both of those are up too. But the problem that she's running into here, it's a real one. It's hard to know how much money they have in their jar or in their envelope on the fly when they want to buy something.
And the first solution here is just to prevent that situation from happening in the first place. Because if you know that you're gonna go out somewhere and you're likely gonna or your kids are gonna are likely going to want to make a purchase, we'll just make sure that you have them bring their money along. It's not typically something they do because kids don't have typically wallets or purses. Then you know there's no need for them to do that.
But if you know that, Okay, here's a store like Target where they're gonna want to spend money because they got that display right there at the entrance of the store where everything's affordable and everything looks so within reach of even the budget of a child. We'll see if he can show up with that money ready to go, but you don't always know that that's going to happen, and you might find yourself in a situation where you're
having to try to remember. So to solve this problem, you can go a few different ways here.
Then.
The first is to put the onus on your kids, and this is especially true I think for like a ten year old. But tell them that they need to keep up with the actual dollars.
It's up to.
Them to bring along the money when they want to buy something, but if they don't, it's up to them to know roughly what they have on hand for the times where you just happen to be somewhere where you weren't necessarily planning to make a purchase. But there's something that is especially a track to them. And this is a great way I think to kind of transition into them being able to manage their money a little more autonomously on their own is by at the very least
putting them in charge. Like they are responsible for their dollars. They are in charge of at least the dollar amount that they have back at home. They're responsible for that amount.
Yeah, and that's I think that going that to that route is gonna take a little bit of parental grace because there's gonna be times whe they're like, pretty sure, I've got forty bucks, but they forgot about one purchase in between or something like that, and so they show up and there's something they want and it turns out that they got twenty five bucks. And so you get back home and you're like, oh, trying to rectify the situation and balance the account, and it turns out there
wasn't enough money in there. And so this doesn't necessarily mean you taking it, taking the lumps and paying the fifteen bucks or whatever the whatever the margin of difference was. You're gonna have to find another way to deal with that, maybe debiting their next allowance something like that. I think that's a reasonable way to go, and then teaches them another elements of personal finance. When do you do that?
Right?
Yeah, exactly, this is how much you ho, mommy, you ow.
Mommy fifteen bucks and so this is how we're gonna roll. Like, you're gonna pay me back two bucks a week over the course of the next whatever, like almost eight weeks. Yeah.
I mean, I think the risk that you run there is things getting too complicated, and that's I guess. Another point I want to make here is that if they don't remember, I think it's not too difficult for you to remember. I mean, this is honestly, this is how we do it. In the moment, we roughly know about how much money each of our kids has, and before they make the purchase, we make it very clear that, like, hey, this is about how.
Much we think you have.
This is how much this costs. Are you sure you want to do this? I'm like, yeah, it's like okay, then we will do that.
It's funny, I don't know how much my kids have. Oh really?
Yeah, okay, I guess it kind of depends on the family. But the point I'm trying to make here, though, is that this isn't a perfect way of accounting, which I know probably sounds funny coming from the guy that has the Excel spreadsheets going back to two thousand and six or whatever of every single cent that he's ever spent.
But we're talking about kids here, and I think what's more important here are the principles as opposed to a perfect ledger of how much money your kids have a home like this isn't true too, Yeah, Like we're not looking for a perfect balance sheet, like this isn't a publicly trade company. This is like your kid's money and how much they've gotten a jar.
Yeah, that goes back to the grace factor, I think, right, yeah, exactly exactly, And so I just think it's important to focus on the principles and have that be the priority as opposed to the perfection, and which might be more difficult if for somebody that has maybe more of an accounting numbers background.
I think, Okay, the other thing you can do is kind of a mix of the two, the analog and the digital. So maybe let's say you use the analog for the saving and for the giving portion of those dollars, but then you do have a digital tool like green Light or go Henry, whatever it is. I think green Light, by the way, is four ninety nine a month for up to five kids. I think go Henry is four
ninety nine a month per kid. So you want to take that into account before you figure out which one you get a sign up for.
Definitely a volume discount involved when it comes to green Light.
Yeah, but let's say you're like cool four nine nine a month. I'm willing to spend that sixty bucks a year and that covers three kids. And guess what. Now, I have the ability to keep up with how much money they have on hand at all times. I have the ability to like funnel their allowance directly into that account, and there's an app, a handy little app that goes along with it. But then for the other things, there's a tangible reality of the actual dollars going into their hands.
So maybe maybe it's the best of both worlds approach. I think this comes down to the individual family and stuff like that, but hopefully that's at least food for thought so that you can approach that allowance and those spending categories thoughtfully with them and without too much rigidity, kind of like you're alluding to MAP.
Yeah, yeah, I think it's a good way to transition to that, but especially focusing on that in the teenage years, I think in the interim, and especially if you have younger kids. One step that we haven't talked about is basically, like when you are out and you make the purchase for your kid, because they don't have the money on them, making sure that you complete that transaction, so like when you get home, like immediately going to their jars, to
their piggy bank to the envelopes. And I've even done this before where I say, hey, let me see that.
So this happened with our first grader.
We're at like a state or national park or something like that, in the gift shop, and she wanted to buy this little box you know what they sell in those little gift shops. It's got like her name on it and you stick stuff in it. It's just this little box. This wouldn't buy And so we went through it. We said, okay, let's go ahead and get it. And when we got home, though, the first thing we did was make sure that she actually paid for it. And I literally said, hey, let me hold that.
Box for a second again, let me see that.
Oh this is so cool. Oh you haven't paid for this yet. And so we walked over to it. She counted out the monies. That way, there's that change hammer
to her piggyback. There's that tangible exchange that's taking place, and I think that is so important, like in hammering home, the fact that there was a purchase made, and to not just take care of the balance transfer like in the background to where they don't feel it at all, because that's the whole point of dealing specifically with cash, with tangible, physical money, and.
It can lose its bearing in reality when it's numbers on a page.
Yeah exactly, Yeah, yeah, And so I don't know, tying that actual transaction, making that happen as close to when they actually got the item as possible, I think makes it seem even more real as opposed again, as opposed to it just being like what the banks do at night in the background over the internet, where they all just like settle up that kind of thing.
I think more than anything, Megan's crushing it. And hopefully, yes, few suggestions will help you figure out the exact right path forward that makes sense for you and your fam. All right, Matt, let's get to the next question. This one comes from a lister who wants to simplify things a little bit.
Hi, Joel and Matt. Wow, that sounds backwards. Hi, Matt and Joel. My name is Kirby. I'm from Northern Montana. I'd love to get your feedback on simplifying my retirement and savings accounts. So I currently have three four one ks and two hsas it's getting a little busy, so I just started a new career with a great company I plan on staying with for a very long time. That came with a new HSA and a new four O one K with a six percent match, I might add,
and it is with Vanguard. Aside from that, I have an old four O one K with Vanguard from a previous employer. I can't contribute to it, but it has good investments and it continues to grow. My other FORUMK is a little under a thousand with Boya. Some of it's company stock that I wouldn't have to pay taxes on. I can roll over the full amount to Vanguard or cash out and put the entirety of that amount to a high interest credit card debt. And aside from all that,
I have another HSA with a previous employer. From what I understand, I can keep this account and contribute to it as long as I have a high deductible healthcare plan, which I do through my employer. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not an HSA expert like you guys are, So what would your advice be to simplify this mess? Which accounts can and should I keep? And then after that, what order should I contribute to these accounts? To maximize my future. Thank you for your help.
Oh, matthe this begs a question, is Matt and Joel and Matt?
Does one sound better because of the consonants?
I think that's it.
Yeah, I don't know, that's a good question. I think you can flip. Literally have never thought about that before. But Kirby, thank you so much for reaching out. And actually I want to she mentioned something too about this mess, and I'm going to highlight the fact a she feels that this is a mess. That's why she's asking us how it is that she can simplify. But having multiple accounts it doesn't necessarily mean that your finances are a wreck or that it is a mess. I think it
kind of depends on the individual. And if you can keep up with multiple accounts, I think there's nothing wrong with that if it makes financial sense. But like Kirby pointed out, there are some things kind of going against her on that front, and there.
Are ways to clean it up. But it also means, hey, I've been investing consistently every time it's been offered to me and that should be congratulated.
That's kind of a good sign. And congrats on the new job.
By the way.
I think she mentioned she's going to be with or she is now with a company that she's happy to be with for a long time. I feel like it's seems like a great feeling to know that you're going to be somewhere where you can kind of put on your roots. Or maybe it's just like an aspirational dream company that you've been working towards for a long time.
Especially if they which is awesome, a six percent match, I mean alongside an HSA, which is killer. I'd hold tightly to that company.
Uh yeah, So what should she do with those old four win ks as that's her question, because we could leave them or she could roll them over in which one she chooses depends on a few different factors.
Yeah, it really does. And so one of the things she mentioned was that her old four to one K was with an insurance company called Voya, and I would say, at least on that front, move that over to a low cost brokerage. Stat that's because Voya charges and this is true for many insurance companies. If you find that your retirement account is with an insurance company, you want to dig in and see, well, what are the fees
that they charge for doing business at the company. And if you can avoid doing business with one of the insurance companies, you're gonna want to because there are much better options, much lower cost options for your investments, and Voye charges an additional fee. They offer Vanguard funds, but if you want to invest in those Vanguard funds, it's gonna cost you more to do so through Voya. Basically, what they do is they charge a third of a
point for using those Vanguard funds. So what a Vanguard fund that would be pointzh three now cost point three to three or something like that. It's ridiculous. It could be ten or eleven times what it would normally cost just because you're buying it through the wrong brokerage firm, which is silly. Right, there's no need to keep paying that fee now that you're no longer working for that
old employer. Basically you could do a few things. You could roll that old account into an IRA, or you could roll the funds into your current four oh one K with your the employer with right now, there are potential benefits to both and potential downsides for both. But I would say, because your new four one K is with Vanguard, I'd lean hard in going in that direction to a direct rollover by contacting your new plan administrator, let them help with the transfer. You do not want
to check in your hands. That's the main thing to say. Uh, tell boya, listen, I'm leaving. And then they send you a check and you're like, now I've got to get this over to Vanguard. Contact Vanguard and allow them to help you with the rollover so that you're not having to be the custodian meeting a deadline to get that money into the new account you wanted to roll over directly if at all possible.
Yeah, and in the spirit of simplification, I mean it sounds like you are already going to be with Vanguard and Joel, you've even got you've got multiple accounts on a single log in as well.
So that's my company, and at one point changed ownership and so then they had to change the new company essentially had a new Vanguard plan. So I've got two different Vanguard plans but under one login, so for me, I don't need to consolidate them, which is pretty nice. They're both there when I log in.
Yeah, okay, let's talk about HSA's and Kirby. If I were you, My goal would be to have all of my HSA dollars with just one of two providers, either Lively or Fidelity. They offer the lowest calls in the industry, and to me, consolidating those makes a whole lot of sense. You could contribute to your old HSA if you still have that high deductible health care plan, but you probably
don't want to. You likely want to contribute to the one that your employer offers, and that's because you'll likely get a tax break for doing so.
We always talk about triple tax advantagement. This is where the potential quadruple yes comes in.
So you avoid FIKA. That money goes in tax free, it grows tax free, and then you get to withdraw it tax free as well. Quadruple Those are four instances that you get to avoid the taxman.
You withdraw a tax free when spent on qualifying medical expenses, right exactly. You got to jump through the hoops. But man, this is the ripest account.
If you do it is technically the most correct account. It's certainly the most tax advantageous. Some employers that they'll even contribute to your HSA in addition to your four O one K, which would be awesome. And hopefully your employer's HSA is as low cost as it's four to oh one k, but if not, you can always contribute and just roll those funds into a lower cost HSA down the road as well. And so I think you've got you've got some great options laid out before you.
Yeah, you might find oh wait, this HSA provider isn't as low cost as the ones Matt and Joel mentioned. I should avoid this and contribute directly one of those. Well, then you'd miss out on that potential tax benefit. And so what you do is you contribute to the one that you have access to through work, and then, like you said, Matt, you can roll that into another one that you like better and that has lower fees in
the future. And then last thing that's worth mentioning here on this one, Matt Kirby mentioned having some high interest credit card debt. I would hate to see you Kirby sell your investments in order to pay that debt off. That's not ideal in most scenarios, but I'd also love to see you get rid of that debt quickly. Right. Credit Card debt, of course, is a wealth killer, especially when we're talking about today's interest rates. It's worse than it was a few years ago by a lot. It's
moving you in the wrong direction. It's not taking you where you want to go. So I would say make that a massive priority instead of selling investments, though, maybe just dial back what you're contributing for a short period of time until you eradicate it completely.
Yeah, rather than taking that ten percent penalty taken. So she mentioned this is the Hoya one right, Barvoya that she was thinking, not.
Hoya, not Georgetown.
See, if you're talking ten percent on roughly eight thousand dollars, so you're looking at eight hundred dollars, eight hundred dollar haircut that we're talking about.
Yeah, so you want to avoid that at all costs. And so the best thing to do is not to, you know, you know, break that piggy bank we were talking about earlier of your retirement account and instead leave that money there lingering and just dial back on it and do whatever you can to create a debt payoff plan so that that has gone in no time, hopefully half a dozen months at most, but whatever it is, like dial back for the time being, and then you
can fully ramp up those investments again. And I got to say one other thing I like about what Kirby's question. We love the goal of simplification what you're trying to achieve here. Having fewer log ins, more of your money, and fewer accounts and hopefully prioritizing the best low cost accounts makes it easier to track. And the truth is, Matt, you say this all the time, what gets measured gets manned.
And I think it's true that for a lot of people, you're gonna see better results when you're more easily able to track investment growth and net worth in a simple way. That doesn't necessarily have to be through the Vanguard log in, right. It could be, Oh, I've got a win NAB or a monarch money account, and I've got all my accounts
at least in one place. But I think the easier it is to track what's happening with your investments and with the growth of your investments and the growth of your net worth as you pay down debt and you increase the value of your assets, that's a heartening thing. And I think it's kind of like success begets success, like it's gonna keep you coasting in the proper direction.
And the more you lose touch with that, the more you're likely to start taking some left turns, and it's gonna take you longer to get to where you want to go. True.
Yeah, and again in the spirit of simplicity. So one of the things Kirby was asking too is which accounts or what order should she be investing in. And even though technically speaking, the HSA is the most optimized account, it does take a little bit of legwork. It takes keeping up with the expenses, is tracking those receipts, storing those away so that you are able to make qualified withdrawals down the road as opposed to your four one K one.
That four one K comes with a sweet match. You want to do that before you think about the HSA too.
But we mentioned some employers do provide that HSA match as well. So basically, I guess what I'm saying is, let's say you've got an HSA with a match, and you've got a four to one K with a match.
I would for you in this.
Situation, Kirby, if you're looking to simplify things, maybe that means steering clear of the HSA and instead just simply focusing on the four to one K, because, yeah, the match is the top priority, whether it's a fifty percent match or one hundred percent match. The ability you're not going to see those You're not going to get that kind of a yield anywhere else. So that is the
absolute first thing that you want to do. But if you're choosing between the HSA and the four to one K, even though it's like mathematically not the correct answer, it might make more sense for you to go with the four one K.
And then once you're free of the worst kinds of death in your life, maybe you can do both. But for now, man, yeah, laser focus on the four O one K and the credit card debt payoff, and then you can move on to bigger and better things as you continue in your wealth building journey.
All right, we've got more to get to. We got some advice for renters out there. How can you score a great apartment for a whole lot less? We'll get to that right after this.
All right, we're back. We got more money questions to get to. Let's get to the Facebook question of the week. This one comes from Andrew. He says, I'm curious for those still renting or looking to rent a bigger place when buying is still way too expensive. Talked about that just a little bit earlier, didn't we? He says, are you experiencing rental bidding wars? We live in a very competitive and expensive city, and I have a feeling that
everyone is competing for the same apartments. Can anyone tell me their experience and maybe some lessons learned in the process.
Well, I'll say, assassinating that in Andrew's market there are still rental bidding wars happening. Because so we can't tell where he's from, but in a lot of the country, demand is actually down. Rents are declining, and instead of getting like ten applicants, landlords are getting just like two. Specifically Austin, Atlanta, Miami, Phoenix, Memphis, they are all seeing
declines of three to four percent year over year. And I'm guessing Andrew that he might be somewhere out west or maybe in the northeast, because.
They's in Salt Lake City, I know that's yea.
They seem to be the only places where rents are still climbing, where in much of the country things are actually cooling off.
That's true, which is like welcomed news for renters because what happened. And I remember getting those questions during the heart of the pandemic, Matt, when prices were escalating rapidly on apartments and single family homes for rent across the country, and people were shocked when their lease was up how much their landlord was asking for next year's rent. It left people a lot of people in a tough spot. But even in some of those areas that you mentioned, Matt,
the rate at which rents are rising is slowing. So even in the cities where rents are still going up, they're not going up as fast as they were. A close friend of ours actually had twenty showings in an awesome neighborhood in Los Angeles. I think two years ago that listing would have been gone on a weekend. He had a bunch of showings, but he had no takers, and like, this is great news, I think for renters everywhere where. Yeah, maybe a lot of people are looking,
but not as many people are pouncing. Most folks are not going through what Andrew is. But let's talk directly to Andrew, because it's his question that we're answering. At the end of the day, how can you compete? Andrew? We've got a couple ideas. One is to look for new builds, especially if you live in a big city. This is easier done than it is in like smaller towns. Those new builds often have to offer free rent for a month or two in order to get their building full.
So drive around look for new complexes that have sprung up. That can help in a big way. I would be looking to see when apartments are almost finished. If you live in a midtown or downtown area of a city, you might find that these are being completed, like one every couple of months, and so you might have more opportunity at least, Yeah, might have more opportunity looking for something new. And again they're trying to get that building full,
they're going to offer you a discount to movement. Yeah.
I think one of the other advantages of driving around as well is that you've got more or even walking around if you like let's say you're in New York, is that you have the ability to potentially find a diamond in the rough because everybody is what are they doing. They're sitting down, they're on their computer, they're looking for everything for rent. But like you said, Joel, if you see a new building that's being built and they've got
a sign that says now leasing, right. Or if you come across a non traditional apartment or house or carriage house or granny flat, whatever it is. If you live out in the country, they call it grany flats. But there just might be a sign in the front yard, and that kind of listing isn't going to make it on some of the different listing websites. So basically, go where others aren't going, where others aren't looking, and that's going to present you inventory that others aren't necessarily privy to.
Yeah, sometimes it's that adu, it is that carriage house or whatever, Matt that because it's an individual landlord, the price might be a whole lot better, And you're right, you might find it's a scow. Maybe it's only listed on a sign in the front.
Yard, and even it's not even a price. But for Angel, it's about just the competition and so like he might be more than willing to pay the top dollar, but it sounds like for him it's about getting chosen out of all the applicants, and there are just going to be fewer applicants for someplace that you have to like show up in person and ring the doorbell. People don't want to do that.
Yeah, well I guess okay. One thing on that front. If you want to be chosen, you need to stand out. And part of what it means to stand out is to have a great credit score, is to be prompt when your meeting with the landlord is to follow up. Makes me think of somebody who wants to get hired for a job oftentimes, Matt, what that takes. It is not just submitting a resume and then hoping that someone
calls you back. It's being proactive, it's reaching back out. Hey, I'm super excited about this position, but I haven't heard anything in a week or two. I was just checking to see if there was any chance I could set up an interview. Those are the kind of things that help get people a job or otherwise they might be forgotten about. And I think if you're in a hot rental market where you live, that's a route that you can take too that puts you in a good light in front of a potential landlord.
Yeah, and something else that you can do. And this is only ever happened to me as a landlord, maybe like once or twice I've had applicants show up and they had letters of recommendation from their current landlord, the fact that they've paid on time, the fact that they've taken care of the property like it was their own. Basically, these are like professional renters, and they.
Made it easy on you.
They made it easy, and yeah, of course I'm gonna want to rent to them, as opposed to somebody who may not take care of the property nearly as well as they, yeah.
Or or at least doesn't go through the same lengths to say, none of your property is the one I want, and I'm gonna try to make it easy on you and try to give you all the proper information that you need up front. I think another tip for Andrew is to wait tilly chiller time of year, because we've talked about this in the past. Met the rental market is typically the hottest in spring. Talked about April and May being the time when everyone's competing for all the
same units. And granted they're typically more units available that time of year, but you might find than in November and December there's less competition. So can you sign a six month lease and then try to find something in the late fall early winter, you're gonna find that a lot of your competition is gone. I have quite as much choice from a rental unit perspective. But the landlord also might be begging for you to sign because you're the only person applying.
I think just asking around as well, like going back to finding the inventory, because it sounds like he is thinking that everyone is competing for the same apartments. But like the ability to expand the pie essentially and not thinking in sort of a scarcity sort of mindset, but like talking about it with your cowork is sort of like we're talking about at the beginning of the episode.
But the ability to have these conversations about money in this case, talk about your housing and how you can't find something, talk to the barista at the coffee shop that you go to. The ability for units to magically appear because it's something that you're looking for. I think that is the kind of out of the box thinking that is going to allow you to find something that a thousand other people aren't also buying for.
That's right. Yeah, the barista might say, Oh, actually, my nixt door neighbor's moving out. That's funny. I'll put you in touch with my landlord.
Like, there's a guy that comes in here every morning at eight o'clock, and I'm pretty sure he manages like a bunch of different properties. Stick around or show up a little bit early. Maybe you can be the guy you never know putting out the vibes matters. Vibes matter, But Angel, we wish you the best of luck.
Joe.
Let's get back to the beer real quick that you and I enjoyed during this episode. This is an Aldi beer you say enjoyed. It might be an over statement, Well, yours is gone. Actually I noticed at the beginning you didn't touch it at all, but then you just like snuck it down chug.
I promise this one was you know meh. It's honestly not as bad as I thought it would be.
Same still not a joyful beer. Though not a joyful beer.
It had like a little bit of a sour element, which this is a lagger, and laggers are not supposed to be sour, which is did you notice much? It might be a sign that it's a little old. It could be yeah, or just bad, just not great. It's not as horrific as I was thinking I might have to stomach, but also not a beer i'd pick up again. I think I would give it.
Did we ever say how many stars we would give it on untapped because chap they rate out of five, and typically the craft beers that we have on the show are like four.
Plus star beers, right Like, they're.
Like four, four and a quarter four half. You know, I'd give this one like a solid solid two and a half.
Hey, maybe three, I think I'm right there with you. Two and a half. That's not terrible, because there are worst beers I've had. That being said, this is a crazy affordable beer.
I think this is like eight bucks for a.
Six pack at Aldi, so much cheaper boom than craft beer these days, hard to beat. So if you're an Aldi and you want to pick up a Cobista surveysa this, we don't recommend it. But it's also if you're looking for some cheap, not terrible, yeah, do your thing. So our man that's going to do it for this episode will put links to some of the references that we made up in the show notes on the website at howtomoney dot com.
That's right, And by the way, if you haven't left us a review over at Apple Podcasts or orherever it.
Is that you listen to podcast.
It's been a minute since we've asked for reviews, and it's helpful obviously. It tells the algorithm, it tells the podcatchers where the good stuff is, and so we want folks to know that the good stuff is over at how to Money, So thank you in advance.
Maybe not the good beer today, but the good show. I hope that's true.
But this maybe it's a more relatable beer for most folks who aren't looking to drop twenty bucks on a single bottle like we do sometimes. But buddy, that's gonna be it for this episode until next time. Best Friends album, best Friends Out Little was that?
Yeah, it's not. It did sound sour, yeah,