Are Experiences Better Than Stuff? #167

But this is something that we're going to dive into and hopefully we're gonna get to the bottom of it. Yeah, it's typically I feel like at this point it's stated in fact, like the experiences are definitely better than stuff, and there can be some truth to that, but we're gonna dive a little bit deeper and kind of do an analysis because it is worth bringing up. And I appreciate that you told everyone and that this is going

to be a good episode, because it will be. It can be hit or missed right this show, So it's good to be optimistic. And normally that's your role in our relationship that I'm sort of the Debbie downer type

of person. But but yeah, regardless of which side of the fence you land on, whether you do side and maybe a little more with stuff, whether you appreciate experiences more, we're gonna talk about ways to do those things correctly and as well as you know, we're gonna mention some sort of filters to look at purchases through in order for you to decide whether or not that that is going to be a wise move for you to make. So I'm excited to to talk about this with you,

my friend. Yeah, should be good, buddy. A Right Before we get to that, though, I wanted to share a recent thing that happened in our household. And we had a minor fender bender the other day in our brand new to us but really old minivan. And so, how old does that mini Vannigan is? It's sixteen? Yeah, it's two thousand and six. No, so fourteen years sorry, fourteen years old. So I just like saying that because it's so freaking old, and I love it. Like I'm not

at all trying to hate on you. I think that it's the coolest thing that you guys are driving such an old vehicle, because like we're going to discuss in this episode. It shines a light on the things that you value and the things that you don't value quite

as much. Yeah, and sorry for the distraction, No, no worries, and and so I think yet part of what also it is nice about driving an older car is that when you do get dings or dense it's just not nearly Yeah, it's like, okay, cool, we get a scrape down the side, but it's a five thousand dollar fourteen year old cars. We don't really care that much. Well, minivan, but okay, and still still a bummer though. Yeah, how long had had you guys had it? I think less

than a week. And so I'm not gonna name names or anything, but one of the members of our family was driving this we can drive, Yeah, who can drive? There's only two of us who can And he or she, who will remain unnamed, was driving this minivan and accidentally scraped the side of a friend's car when he or she was dropping off the children at a friend's house. And so this, you know, not really a big deal.

Our friends were really cool about it. Obviously. We offered to pay for it to get fixed, and they took it to a couple of auto shot and it was a bummer because it's almost eight hundred bucks to to repair this car. We're not repairing our car because you know, the scrape whatever who cares, but obviously paying to fix our friends car and even just I wanted to talk about minor fender bendor fixes and how you approach those.

And I think most people instantly assume that they should be making an insurance claim when almost anything happens to their vehicle. Right, Folks are thinking, something happened, I want to pay the hunter bucks and get it fixed, yeah, or my deductibles five hundred. This thing cost a hundred bucks. Sweet, I'm coming out three dollars ahead. But that's just not the case. And so what we did was we paid the bill and full and didn't involve insurance at all.

And when you make an insurance claim, you're gonna be paying increased rates typically for three years after after the fact. And there's some insurers to do stuff like accident forgiveness, but typically on the whole, you're gonna pay more for your insurance premiums every single month for three years to come by making that claim at least man. Yeah, and it's gonna reflect poorly if you go shop around and try to go with another company. So these are the

kind of things you want to take into consideration. And one thing I think is really important to mention in here is that if people haven't looked at their deductible lately on their car insurance, they should strongly consider raising that deductible because what it does is it lowers your premiums, but it also makes you less likely to file a claim, and the claims it's insurances is what you want when you absolutely need it. It's not something that you want

to use on a whim, yeah, exactly. And then you do want to make sure you have enough money set aside to cover that deductible completely for the situation to arise. Well, Joel, you mentioned three years. Well, the reason I said, well at least three years is because we were actually in a very similar situation five years ago and that junk is still on our record. Maybe it's just what our insurance provider, you know, is as one of their things that they hang on to the little thunder benders like

that in the neighborhood for that long. But this was an incident that required a little bit more money and at the time, we kind of had a lot going on. We're flipping and selling a house, we're moving into another home at the same time, and it was going to be a more expensive fix as well. And so in that case, we thought, you know what, I think this is a time when when we are going to do insurance.

But dude, in retrospect, I completely wish that we would have just handled it ourselves, right, how do we not involved insurance and paid person a person. We would have come out ahead for sure. And so, yeah, if if you're in a small incident like that, hopefully you can be a little more cautious and be thoughtful as to the implications that that one little incident is going to have years down the road. Definitely three, maybe even five

if you're with my career, Yeah, five years. That's that's even worse, right, You're you're paying increased premiums for that long of a period, and depending on what insure you're getting quotes from, they're seeing that on your clue report, which we've talked about on the show before. Spent a minute. Yeah, but it's this essentially database for insurers to look at and they see the claims that you filed so every claim that you file, I mean, it just goes against you.

It hurts you when you're shopping your insurance around, which is something you should do, you know, on the rag in order to save money. So, yeah, it was a bummer to kind of have that scrape to our new minivan. It was a bummer that that happened to our friends. But ultimately, you know what, not that big of a deal when you can handle it yourself and leave insurance out of the equations that you're not paying those increased premium for years to come, that's where it really stinks. Yeah, man,

that is rights. So let's go ahead and introduce the beer that we're gonna have on this episode. We are drinking Divided Sky, which is an I p A from Four Hands Brewery and uh listener Justin sent this one to us, and he sent us a nice little note here as well. He said he's learned from the podcast that on one hand, money is not a scary or evil concept, and on the other hand, it's not the

ultimate aspiration either. It's simply a tool to help unlock what you enjoy in life, such as freedom, convenience, adventure, and security. Man, what a great way to to think about money in the proper light, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, I mean that's awesome. I mean I think that's exactly what we hope people take away, right, We want them to know because so many people think it money's evil, money's terrible, or money scary, and yeah, it's not. It

is a tool to be used well. And on the other hand, man, it's also something to not seek after. Like you said as well, that's a path that we try to not go down when it comes to how we view money. It's important, but it's not something that we need to, you know, seek with every fiber of our being obsessed over for sure. We'll talk about this beer and our thoughts on it at the end of the show. Big thanks to Justin for sending in our way.

But Matt, let's get onto the subject at hand. And today on the show, we're asking the question our experiences better than stuff? And like you mentioned at the beginning of the show, that's a common question right now, but typically people come down, at least now kind of on the side of experiences. It seems like no dub experiences are,

of course better than stuff. And I think part of that is this kind of backlash against the prior generation that did seem to kind of fuel this consumeristic mindset and we live We're looking at you Gen xers. It's all your fault, okay, Boomer. We live in this consumeristic society and most of us we've grown up in this culture that equates buying things with greater levels of happiness,

and that's kind of what we're reacting to. Studies show though, that our increased overall societal wealth has led to less happiness and greater psychological turmoil. But of the overall economy, Matt is driven by consumer we're spending. So on the flip side, younger Americans seem to value experiences more than stuff, and I can understand why, but we have to ask the question, our experiences a better use of our money? What we definitely want to put our money towards things

that we actually value and avoid spending mindlessly. Right, That's a huge part of what we talked about on the show. But does that necessarily mean experiences provide a better return than just buying stuff? And in this conversation, we also have to address kind of our quest for happiness overall? Are we going to be able to find more happiness through greater spending on cool experiences or through buying nicer stuff.

So we'll talk big picture, and we'll also get into some practical ways that we can think through how we spend our money when we're talking about both of these things. Well, Man, on the note of experiences, you and I were both fans of a great experience, right. I recently talked about my desire to hit up a World Cup match on the show World Cup is coming to North America. You

gotta make it happy to be there. But experiences, though, like they have trended in a consumeristic direction, and it feels like that they're going down a similar path as

the stuff in our lives. It seems to me that folks are prioritizing travel and getting those likes on Instagram, Like, is it really for the experience or are you just basically trying to signal status like we once did with stuff, consistently buying new stuff that arise on your doorstep the next day, Like, that's not a great way to build

your savings. Of course, but the way that we talk about experiences has increasingly taken on some of the same characteristics of what we disliked about how we bought things, So should we value experiences more? Like? That's the question that we need to ask ourselves. But part of the difficulty in tackling this topic is that it's hard to quantify an experience, Like how do you determine a proper value?

These are questions that each of us, like all of us individually, that we'll need to ask ourselves as we spend money on the different fund stuff in our lives. Yeah, man, I definitely think there are some builders that can help us think through how we buy experiences, how we purchase stuff that can have a major influence on kind of the benefit that we get from both. And so we'll get into some of those things in just a second,

but before we do, I wanted to ask you. We're human as well, right, and we make we make mistakes. Were not immune to the cause of like overspending and mindlessly buying a thing or an experience. So what are some of the ways that you're attempted to over consume? And I won't just leave you out there hanging to dry, I'll answer the questions. Yeah, So, like, what what is it that you struggle with? What's a way that you're

tempted to kind of mindlessly purchase a stuff or an experience. Yeah, Like, well, I feel like Kate and I we tend to be like minimalists, right, Like there's not a ton of stuff in our lives, but whatever it is that we do spend money on, we tend to spend a lot of money on it, right. And so the first thing that

came to my mind is is our house. I mean, we live in a pretty expensive home, and we recently finished our renovation to get it closer to how we can envision ourselves being here, and so we've been really

mindful about it. But I guess what I'm realizing is the more time that I spend thinking about something or working on something, I think, the more I'm tempted to spend in that direction, you know what I'm saying, Yeah, completely, And so like it's almost it's less of a category of items or a certain type of experience, you know, Like broadly speaking, it's it's almost as if like the more time and more proficient I become in a certain area,

and the more I get sort of sucked into that subculture, right, the subculture of home renovation. And there's no end to what you could do. No. Yeah, it's that's why there shows all over TV this house and I don't I haven't seen anything. There's like multiple channels dedicated home renovation if you have cable, And I know my my mom is obsessed with Chip and Joyana and they're getting their own network now, which is insane. There's already HDTV. There's

gonna be more. You know, there's a craze around it, for sure. I know people make pilgrimages to where they're from. My mom might have done it. I didn't know if you're going to share that, but no, I don't remember when when you shared that with me, I was like, no way, so into it. Literally, they stayed in one of the houses that Chip and Joyana renovated, and I'm sure they loved it. They had the best time ever exactly.

So in their case, that was an experience. But yeah, and and I think, like, honestly, for them, it was a really meaningful experience. Yes, yeah, But on that note, I think the same thing can be applied to anything. I researched and basically armed myself with knowledge, right, and so I feel like I did something similar when it came to cargo bikes. Like, I researched the heck out

of it and I just got really into it. And so the more into something I get, because I have that knowledge, I kind of released myself from responsibility a little bit, and I tend to overspend, loosen the purse strings. Because you felt like you knew more about it, I feel more comfortable with it, and I therefore we'll spend

more dollars, all right. So I think the way that we let me hear it, I think the way that we mess this up is we do prioritize a certain amount of eating out, and I think when we do it mindfully, it's really really good. Like in particular our date nights. I like going out and get some cheap tacos or some cheap barbecue or whatever, just as much

as the next person sounds good. But you know, we also like going to a nicer place sometimes, and so we don't mind dropping that money on a decent meal out. But I think the problem can be for us where we end up spending mindlessly is when we're just not thoughtful about our food and we're last minute eating out.

We're grabbing a pizza on a Friday night and dropping twenty bucks because we just didn't think ahead about dinner or we didn't plan our meals accordingly, and and that's I have no problem spending money eating out when we're thoughtful about it, but I think when we do it in that way, that's twenty bucks that I have a hard time spending, and then it just feels like it was wasted and feels a little more reactive than something

that you set out to do. Yeah, exactly, because because if it was Monday and you're looking ahead to the weekend, you said, you know what, Friday, Friday night, it's gonna be pizza night. We're gonna watch a movie. You know, it's gonna be whatever pizza in the movie night. That's a whole different thing then last minute being like, oh, let's just grab a quick pizza, right, Yeah, I feel you.

So yeah, that's at least one way in which I'm tempted to overspend, and we do sometimes, and that's something that we need to be more intentional about. But we're talking about the difference between spending on experiences and stuff, and there is I think a right way in a wrong way to go about spending in both categories. And let's kind of get into those filters that we need to run through in order to make smart decisions when

we're buying either. And we'll get to that right up to this break, all right, Joel, we're back from the break, And it's good to mention too that we're not necessarily in favor of experiences over stuff or stuff even over experiences. I think there's ways though, that we can approach both of those where we're kind of maximizing the enjoyment that we get out of them, and a lot of times

that involves is spending less money. Yeah, I think of it like a deadlocked arm wrestling match, right, experiences and stuff going at it, but they're both equally strong, and so neither of them them wins. I don't know, I think that's a good way to think of it. Man, you're just trying to find a way to throw an arm wrestling analogy in there, because I know you love

arm wrestling specifically. I remember, like one of the first times we hung out, you kind of like challenged me to an arm wrestling match over a little argument with God that we were in over dinner, and you remember that. I probably used to do that more when I was younger. Pretty much anytime you're hanging out with you're like, hey, you an arm wrestling and it's not because you're jacked or anything. I don't know really why you wanted darmst

letter definitely not jacked. You're just looking to fight prove our manhood, you know. Well here's the thing, though, when it comes to experiences, they don't have to actually cost much or even any money at all. It could just be a free arm wrestling match. It shouldn't be about taking a vacation to Mashu Pichu and getting that photo on top of that mountain, you know what I'm talking about. I do want to go there, by the way, at some point me too. For sure. It looks amazing. Yeah.

We're not anti Machu Picchu for sure. Yeah, and we like vacations, but we want to make sure that we're focusing as well on the day to day experiences, right like getting coffee with an old friend or even just waking up early to work out. That doesn't have to cost you any money to go for a run, but even two things like playing with your kids in the yard, right like, these are all things that you can do for little to know money at all. And while we

both like a nice trip or a nice vacation. Every now and then, Man, we want to make sure that we are pushing back against the mindset of vacation envy which can take hold of us, causing us to to seek those different experiences for fulfillment. Yeah. And I think if we're trying to look through the lens of proper filter for how we make decisions when we do decide

to spend our money on an experience. One it is looking at the free things in our life as beautiful experiences, because there are so many things that if we were to view it properly and to think about it well, we would notice that those experiences are rich and they're

meaningful and they didn't cost any money. And I think the other thing too, when you're dropping money on an experience, to make sure it has its full impact for you and that it is truly meaningful and that you feel like you've got your money's worth, The important thing to

do is to soak it in. Oftentimes, so much of the enjoyment that we received from any type of experience, it's in the planning, in the anticipation of that experience, especially if it's a tripper event, right, if you've got concert tickets for a show that's in three months and you buy them and you know you're going with a friend, you have the joy of being able to talk about it and get excited in the lead up to it. And then it's making sure that you know all the

lyrics to all the songs. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, you're playing that that CD on repeat because we still listen to CDs, right, Amazon Music Dog. I think last year actually more records were sold than c d s, which is just funny.

Then records on the comeback. But yeah, and and same thing with a trip, right, there's so much joy in the anticipation of that trip, and especially if you're sharing it with someone else, But so much of the joy that you get from an experiences in the lead up and then when you're in the experience, well, bask in

the moment. This isn't the time to be checking your work email or to be on Instagram and see what others are up to, Matt, have you ever done that, been on an awesome trip, flipped open Instagram at some point and you're like, oh man, other people are doing cool stuff. My trip doesn't seem nearly as cool. I feel like that is totally something that happens in our culture. It's something I've been susceptible to. I just don't want to do that. I want to be in the moment

and I want to enjoy it to the fullest. And I think there are simple traps that we can fall into that can kind of cheapen our experience, and we

don't want to do that. We want to fully enjoy it, right, Yeah, man, absolutely, because I mean just think about the memories that you're missing out on by being on your dumb phone, right and then the here the other thing too is on the back end of it, like on the back end of the trip, even just reflecting and taking a second to appreciate like what you've done or what you've accomplished.

Just like that idea of experience hopping, right when you're going from one trip to the next, where you're just constantly just kind of looking ahead to the next thing just to kind of check these boxes off your list. That is the sort of mindless consumption that we're trying to avoid. Yeah, experiences, based on how you approach them, can either be hyper meaningful or they can lose a lot of meaning. Ultimately, so much of it comes down to your approach and your ability to kind of soak

it in and enjoy it. And I feel like this is a great argument too against experiences, right because just like we can, you know, we buy shoes or whatever it is that we you know, we compulsively buy on Amazon, and you know, we use them for a little bit,

but then they just end up in our closet. It's so easy to do the same thing with trips, Like we can go on all these different trips and all these different vacations, and instead of enjoying them to the max and fully immersing ourselves, that trip can just get translated into just a few pictures on your phone that

you you know, you threw up on social media. I do kind of equate it to those, you know, different items that we might be tempted to purchase online and we just end up tossing those items in the closet where we basically forget about them. Yeah, that definitely happens, all right, Matt, Let's talk about how we approach buying stuff, and I think there are definitely some helpful approaches so that we can buy stuff the right way too. So

I feel like in this conversation. Right, we've already mentioned things. They normally get a bad rap. But owning stuff isn't necessarily the problem. It's our approach to owning things. So how can we make purchasing stuff less of a negative in our lives? And I think there are a few ways we can do that. One is to just admit that sometimes there as stuff that we really appreciate. Like for me, I like having a lot of art on

our walls. We've got a lot of pieces by local artists, and that's stuff, right, cost money, but it's insanely meaningful to me. I see it every day. Matt. We ride bikes. Those bikes are super important to us. Yeah, I love my bike. Yeah, yeah, there, it's great. They have a lot of utility and we get a lot of joy out of them. So it's not the stuff that's inherently bad. And sometimes that becomes the mantra in this conversation. But it's important to figure out whether or not our purchases

align with our values. And this is where, like track our spending can be so helpful because it actually allows us to see where our money is going. And if we see where our money is going, we can actually look at the numbers and see whether those numbers reflect what we say our values are. And that's ultimately what we want for people. Matt right, that we want their money to be aligned with their values. And we're not

all going to have the same values. But if you, as an individual can line up your spending with your values and the stuff you buy is reflective of that, well, then you're not being a mindless consumer. You're being intentional about your choices, and the stuff that you're buying is in all likelihood going to hold a lot more meaning for you. Yeah, if you're gonna buy stuff, you want to make sure that you're making the correct purchases. Right.

Something else to consider is let's talk about quality versus quantity. I think the aspect of buying stuff that leads to the most psychological harm is our continual pursuit of more. If we can prioritize fewer, nicer things, then I think we'll be choosing stuff that we can appreciate more and have in our lives longer. I think that can all

us to avoid that perpetuation of consumerism. It's good not only for society but our mindset as well, And so finding ways to you know, purge stuff that we no longer want or need in our lives, and then to appreciate and be thankful for what we currently have that is serving us well, that can give us a better

relationship to the things that we actually own. Yeah, Matt in the I didn't really watch the show, and I haven't read any of her books, but I know about Marie Condo, and I know that every time she tells someone to to give away an item, like when they're purging and they've got too much stuff, she tells you to to thank the item, which which is interesting, right, And I think it does like there's this psychological impact that it has on someone as they were releasing something

and they're thanking it for its service. And I think if we almost need to do that with the stuff that we currently own, to a certain extent, be thankful for it. And I don't want to get woo woo and weird, but just be thankful for the things that you actually currently have that you're using, that are meaningful to you. And I think if we take that approach, we're less likely to be like, you know, I need

more stuff. We can appreciate the quality things that we buy, and this has been a huge shift for me because I used to be someone who was all about buying stuff cheaply, as inexpensively as possible and having more of it. And now I've kind of taken a huge one eight on this and I'm all about owning fewer things that I'm going to utilize the heck out of and then are gonna be like super meaningful staples for me. Yeah, minimalist, Joel,

that's gonna be your new new podcast. I don't think minimalists have as much art on the walls as I do. But yeah, so I'm definitely not a minimalist by any stretch of the imagination. But but it has been interesting to see that how it's changed my life and how it's changed my relationship to my stuff. Instead of having more stuff, it's like having this stuff that I actually appreciate. Yeah, it's better to have a few things that you really

love than a bunch of stuff that you sort of like. Right, And something else We've got to mention as well, if you're looking to purchase some stuff, don't forget to buy a second hand. The more that we can get our stuff used instead of brand new. Obviously, when you're buying something used, oftentimes it's gonna cost you a lot less money.

And on top of that, there's a good chance you can buy something that's higher quality for less money than you could buy something of lower quality just easily on the internet. Yeah, and and even like if you're comparing apples to apples, like we needed to get a new high chair for our four month old son. We didn't have one from the previous kids. I'm not sure what we did with it. We probably sold it to the

yard sale or something like that. So we needed another one, and it would have been so easy for us just to do a quick purchase on Amazon. It is friction lest Yeah, we found the high chair we wanted. It was forty five bucks. And then I said, you know what, m let's take a quick look on Facebook yard sale. They're like eight people selling this exact same high chair. We found one right around the corner from us that

was selling it for ten bucks. And I think ultimately just the increased friction, if you dedicate yourself to buying used, it can actually not only lower the price, but it makes you more intentional about the stuff that you actually do bring into your life. Because of the increased time

and the nature of buying something used. Typically it makes you think twice about whether you really needed and so I don't know that was the case for us who took the approach to buy used as opposed to new, and it not only did it save us money, but I feel like it made us make a more thoughtful and intentional decision about bringing that new high chair into our lives in the first place. Yes, certainly, buying used, in buying secondhand, it definitely kind of gums up the

consumption gears a little bit something else, Joel. Not being thoughtful with our stuff and our experiences that can cause us to get caught up in the rat race. And what does this cause us to do, Joel, This causes us to overwork, Right, we have to fund all these purchases that we're making. Yeah, I think that's an important thing to note, Matt. Like taking that approach of intentionality and how we think about experiences and stuff and how

we spend our money in regards to both. Ultimately, it allows us to prioritize the things that truly matter and not be caught up in the rat race and be forced to work to pay for the things and experiences that didn't actually move the needle for us, and so that is an important part of this whole equation of spending mindfully. All Right, Joe, we're gonna take a quick break.

But basically what we're talking about here is mindful spending, right, and sometimes it can be difficult to figure out if you are spending mindfully, and so we're going to discuss a few sort of lenses that we can view our purchases through and we're gonna get to that next. All right, Matt, we're back from the breaking. We're asking the question today

on the show. Our experience is better than stuff, and you know, there are some lenses that we have to consider in order to make a wise decision in regards to both. And we discussed how experiences lose their value when we mindlessly spend on those experiences like we often do when we're buying stuff. So how do we make a good decision before we buy what the core of it? It's mindful spending. That's what we're looking to do, and that's crucial whether we're talking about either of these things.

But aligning our spending with what we truly value is going to lead to a lot more happiness in our lives, and that can be difficult to do. So let's specify a few of these lenses that really do help us make it more informed decision when we're thinking about purchasing either one. Yeah, I think the first thing that we

need to do, man, is to look to others. Like what I'm talking about here our relationships, and so a question we should ask ourselves before spending money is how can this item or how can this experience add value to our lives by deepening meaningful relationships. This is often a reason why our generation tends to value experiences over stuff, because like we're often joining friends on these experiences, right like a vacation or a trip. But the same I

think can be true of stuff as well. You know you already mentioned bikes, but it's it's one of our favorite things. It's something that can lead to countless free right like quote unquote free experiences that can allow for a relationship to deepened. I also think of another friend of ours who he's really in depends and he tease him about a lot because he has a really expensive fountain pens, all sorts of pens. But he goes to these different pen conventions and he's made a lot of friends.

I think he's even gone on vacation, like on a trip with with a friend that he met at a pen convention. And so because of this item, these, you know, the off that he purchases, his life is richer and better because of it. He listens to podcasts about pens, yeah, which I didn't know that truly exists. Yeah, that's hardcore. I know, I didn't know that a thing. Yeah, I mean, you're right, bonding over something, even a material possession, if

you're into it enough, can lead to deeper relationships. Man. I mean, we're super into money. We go to a money nerd conference every year, and we've got great relationships with with so many people because of that, many of whom we've had as guests on the show. So although that's different, right, it's not the same thing as bonding over pens. Um It is just fascinating how you can

bond with people over something like that. Yeah. And so in this case, it's not that he's necessarily gaining all of this value from that one specific object or the countless specific objects that he has, because he has a bunch of pens. But in this case, we're talking about relationship and when you can see your network and your friendships develop and blossom and see them spread because of

an item, well that's a serious benefit that's worth considering. Yeah, it's interesting how what started off as kind of an obsession with an item has been turned into kind of like a hobby that was part of his life expanded as relationships. So, yeah, another really important filter or lens that we need to consider when we're making a purchase is the utility of it. We should really be considering what is the problem that we have in our lives that this purchase is going to solve. And this specific

lens really mostly applies to buying stuff. But if you find yourself not really being able to come up with a real problem, then it's time to ask yourself, why do I want this thing? Why am I saying that I need this thing but I can't even really identify why I need it? And in those situations, allow yourself to take some time and pause before you click to buy.

It makes me think of like infomercials where they're trying to convince you that you have this problem in your life, but in reality, it's like, that's not a real problem I have. Yeah, and you have twenty nine minutes to call in order to get the deal. Those those infomercials. I don't know, but I think I to exist in some way form or fashion, like somebody has to be

selling the ad roller. Plus I completely remember in high school staying up late at night talking to my friends on the phone and we were totally watching infomercials, just making fun of um, yeah, a little nerd uh. Yeah, I was in a weird stuff back then. But this totally makes me think Matt of a purchase that I made recently. There's this really really cool backpack that I was really excited about, but it wasn't anything that I actually needed. Was one of those roll top backpacks that

like that the different bikers wear. No, it wasn't that. Then. It wasn't a cool backpack. Those are dope. No, it's kind of one of the ones that like it's like a butterfly opening and so it it's it's like a suitcase at the same time, Oh, I know what you're saying. Yeah, and so it's like a clamshell, yeah exactly. And I was super into it because I realized, like, when I'm traveling that instead of rolling a suitcase behind me, how cool is it? How much better is it to have

a backpack instead? It seems pretty rad, seems cool. So I bought it, and then I realized, you know what, I've got a great rolling suitcase. I don't need this thing. It's not like it's something that's actually important to me. And so but but I did kind of similar to the informercial thing. I bought it because it was on sale for a limited time in the lead up to Christmas, and so I bought it, and then I decided, you

know what, this is not something I need. What I'm doing is I'm trying to like plug a happiness hole as opposed to actually fill a need in my life. And so I returned it, you know, after thinking about the purchase, albeit on the back end. But I just didn't need a cool travel backpack. Uh. And you know what, if even if I decided I did after more deliberation, I could probably find it used for a much better

price from some other times somewhere else. And when you get used, you don't have to spend all that time ripping the tags off and removing the stickers. You know, all that takes time as well, exactly throwing away the packaging all that stuff. Yeah, well, and Joe something else you kind of alluded to their, right, you're talking about looking at a purchase in retrospect, like looking back at it. I want to kind of flip that on its head

a little bit. And this is gonna be harder to do, but we want to encourage folks to look at a purchase in the future before you make that purchase, right Michael J. Fox style. Yeah, but for both stuff and experiences, try to look in the future and do your best to try to imagine how you're going to feel about that purchase and a couple of months, how you're gonna feel about it in a year, even five years down

the road. If you feel even a twinge of awkward regret now, then there's a good chance that that will definitely be the case in the future. You know, Like, if you don't feel good about a purchase, you're you're not gonna feel good about that purchase in a month or two months or a year. And I think you

can apply this one definitely to stuff and experiences. If it's a big time trip and a couple of your friends are going on it and you're like, I just don't feel like I have the money right now to actually make this happen, but you do it anyway, mostly

out of peer pressure. Odds are you didn't take this step and actually look to what your future self a year or five years from now would would be thinking and how you feel about it, because if you did, you'd probably have a different viewpoint and you wouldn't be as likely to kind of jump on it just because everybody else is doing it. Yeah, it makes me think of concerts as well. Like if you're talking about planning

and looking ahead towards the concert, well, that's great. If you're super stoked about a concert, great, it sounds like you're all for it, right, But if it's maybe a band that you've seen before and you're kind of like, well, this is what I do, but like, well, do you really have to do that? Like you've already seen them two or three times? Like, how is this going to be different this time? Uh? And in a few years, are you gonna feel good about the fact that you

made it to that third Abor Brothers concert? Jol or you know, would you've just been happy with the first two now? I mean, well we're talking Aby Brothers dude. Yeah, you've got to go three times because they are truly one of the best live bands out there. Totally, we're seeing multiple times, I will say that, but I completely understand what you're saying, and I think if we do kind of take a little bit more of a future US perspective before we make the purchase on either experiences

or stuff, we're likely to make a much better decision. Yeah, man, totally agree. And you know what, what else is so incredibly important for us to not do is to look to others. The jones Is right, Like, they've been around forever, those jerks, Yeah, they've always existed. But social media is the enemy of being content with what we have. Instagram and the other platforms out there has taken the Joneses

to an entirely different level. So so many of the people that you know look rich, whether that be an experiences or the stuff that they own, or you know, take pictures of like they aren't actually rich, and the money that they could have saved and invested towards building freedom like instead that went out the door because of

their desire to look a certain way. Man, it makes me think of Millionaire next Door, where there's a line in there one of the authors where they said that there are those who look rich and then there are those who are rich, and we want to make sure that we are the ones who are in actuality doing smart things with our money, not those who look like

that they're living the life. Yeah. Yeah, completely, there's a big difference there, and we're gonna be happier if we have freedom on our side, right, not billions in the bank, but freedom on our side. And at the same time, dude, I feel like advertising has gotten so much sneakier. So with cookies and all the information that companies like Facebook and Amazon have on us, they can use some well written algorithms to serve up really relevant ads to us consistently.

So be aware of the tools also that are used to part you from your money. Maybe it's helpful to get off Instagram altogether, or just use social media less, or maybe install an ad blocker that prevents you from seeing some of the stuff that all these advertisers want you to see. Matt, I just saw a story the other day about Google and how they changed what the

ads look like. They used to have a different color background for the ads, They've completely removed it, and the ads almost blending seamlessly with the results, it's harder to decipher what's information and what's being paid to be served up to you. Dude, I completely noticed that earlier this week.

It you know, it totally blends in what it does. Though, it causes us to be more savvy, like we have to be more savvy searchers, more savvy googlers when you know, we're hopping on their searching for whatever random stuff we're you know, we're looking up. Like in my case, I looked up what insects create mud tubes because I saw some mud tubes on the Girls Playhouse, you know, up in the rafters. It turns out it's they're called mud dappers. They're like these little wasps that that make these make

these little mud tubes. Did you actually only click the ad to find that out or or did you scroll past and find your first good search result? Dude, I'm savvy. Not gonna catch me clicking on any of those ads. Here's the thing, man. In the end, what we want folks to hear us say, though, is that stuff is

not evil and experiences aren't evil either. However, there are ways that we can derive greater happiness in the ways that we pursue both of these things, if we are mindful in our approach, will turn to one or the other, or even both of these things to find happiness in our lives, but they won't be able to give us the happiness that we seek, and we're also going to end up with less money too. Yeah, I think it's important to state that this isn't something that we don't

struggle with, right. I think even folks who try to be mindful, they realize in their attempts at mindfulness that there are oftentimes that they don't do it well. And I am tempted to to buy a backpack that I don't actually need and then realize that I have to return it, And I'm also attempted to to make the quick purchase on Amazon. But the more that I can incorporate these filters into my life, the more that I can be mindful about my purchases of stuff or experiences,

the more joy I get out of both. Yeah. I think that's so key, right, is that we can look to purchases and experiences into the look for ways that those things can enrich and the other areas in our lives that matter more. We're not looking for fulfillment, enjoy necessarily in these items alone, but in what those things can do for the other areas of our lives, how they can impact and brighten and beautify those areas for sure. All Right, Matt, speaking of beautiful, let's talk about the

beer that we had on the show today. I like that little transition. It was a beautiful, clear, golden beer. Yeah, sure was. The beer we had on the show today was divided sky a rye I p A by Four Hands Brewing, and Matt, I don't think we've had a Rye I PA on the show yet, So what was your take on this one? Yeah, it's been a minute.

So for me, anytime I have a rye I PA, it always has this sort of like spicy character to it, like pepper, Like that's what I always kind of come back to you because it feels a little bit dry, but it's not spicy hot, but it just kind of has like this kind of pepperiness to it. So it definitely had that going on. But then it also had this nice balance between like the floral hops as well as like a multibody classic I p A but with

just like a little bit of black pepper cracked into it. Yeah, I'm a huge fan of cracked black pepper by the way, so yeah, I got some of those nice spicy ry notes going on, and then also at the same time, I thought some kind of piny hop notes with that malt background, and so yeah, it was a really interesting flavor profile. I really dug it. And it's not every day that you have a rye I p A. They did, just not many people make them, so it was fun to get to try. This one. Is a big thanks

for our listener, Justin for sending this one our way. Yeah, Justin, thanks so much for that, beer Man. We really appreciate it. So Joel, that's gonna be it for this episode. Our listeners can head over to our website at how some money dot com, where you can find our show notes as well as some of the other articles and resources

that we've been working on. Yeah, and if you're a longtime listener and you are still nervous to talk about money with your friends, well, you know what, Why not tell a friend about the show you've been listening to and the things you've been learning about money. Telling your friend about a podcast you're into is the quickest way to spread the word and it can also kind of open up those money conversations with friends that can be

so impactful. So yeah, maybe sharing this episode or another one with a friend could be great for that relationship, and it also really helps our show at the same time. So we appreciate all of our listeners so much. Thank you for the ways you support our show. All Right, Matt, that's going to be it for this episode until next time, Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,