¶ A Second Career in Teaching
after covid , it was very . You know , we were very mental health , mental health well we're not even allowed to talk about mental health anymore in florida .
There's no more hi and welcome back to how much can I make . I'm a curious journalist with a passion for exploring what people do for a living . This time I wanted to dig into what it's really like to be a teacher in Florida . Because all the new rules and regulations and all the stuff we're hearing about in the news I thought it would be interesting .
So I contacted Danielle Goodman she's a Florida teacher of many years to try and find out what the job is really like and is it worth the paycheck . So let's dive right in , danielle . Thanks a lot for doing it . First of all , my pleasure .
I'm happy to be here .
My first question is did you always want to be a teacher ?
So I knew you were going to ask me that that's what most people ask me , and the answer is no . I did not always want to be a teacher . Teaching is actually a second career for me . I didn't start teaching until I was about 39 . Oh , so yeah , it was so how did it come ? about I was getting divorced and it was sink or swim time .
So my actual degree was in liberal arts and you know what can you do with a liberal arts degree ? So I spent a lot of time when my children were little in their school volunteering PTA reading to the class , and I realized this is something I did want to do , you know , at turning 40 years old .
Why ? Because you had small children and you're so important .
I had small children and I just loved it . I realized that I connected with the children . So , no , when I was in college originally I didn't think about education or teaching . It was not even anywhere near anything I wanted to do . So being in the school system , having small children , immersing myself in education , really shined a light on that aha moment .
This actually is something I want to do . However , I was 40 , not 20 . So I found out what I had to do , because in public school , you need the proper certification .
This is what I want to know what kind of certification do you need ?
Well , it's different now than it was 20 years ago .
What is it now ?
Now it's a lot less rigorous because we have a teaching shortage .
So , as it used to be , you had to have a four-year degree , you had certain certification tests you had to take , you had something called a general knowledge test that you had to pass , and it was much more rigorous where now they're hiring students straight out of high school to substitute and quick , like a fast track towards becoming a teacher .
That's a problem , don't you think it's a huge problem ? It's a huge problem . When I was doing it . I had to go back to school to get all this certification . So here I was , this 40 year old woman getting divorced with three little kids going back to college to take classes so I can get certified and take all these tests , and it took me about two years .
I was substituting in the meantime at the private school that my kids were going to and then realizing , once I got divorced , they could no longer attend private school and shuffled them off to public school and started substituting there and formed a relationship with the principal at the school that my kids went to and he helped me get all of my certifications
¶ Teaching Requirements and Pay Reality
and he gave me a job .
Oh , and is it a full time job ?
Like eight to four . It was a full . So that was elementary school . So it was a full time job , 820 to 320 . And summer's off . I started out in fifth grade .
And you were teaching art history or art or something . Okay .
I started out in fifth grade teaching reading to fifth graders .
Okay .
And once I got the hang of it I realized I wanted more . So I know this job has to do with salary also .
Yeah , we're going to talk about it .
Yeah , I was going through this with my brother today , who's visiting from Chicago , you know just thinking about in preparation for this and I looked back at the salary that I was making when I taught fifth grade and I can't even believe I lived on that . It was embarrassing .
How much was it ?
It was about $32,000 a year .
A year . Oh my God , how can they do that ?
That's what my brother said . This is it's criminal . So it is criminal , especially , and I'm sure , when you talk to San Francisco and New York , those teachers definitely in New York it's much better . I don't know how it is in California and San Francisco . It's bad . Here it has gone up and there is a happy ending to my story that you know .
I make about triple that right now , thankfully right so it's about 15 years later and I decided I wanted out of elementary school and I was able to get a job in a high school . In a high school when in the last seven years I've been working in a high school .
As a teacher . You make more money if you teach in high school .
Yes , that's the trick . So in high school the days are split up by period and by contract . If it's a six period day , you teach five periods and you have one planning period . However , if the school's overpopulated , you can ask to have no planning period and then you get paid for that period . So you're making about an extra six to $7,000 a year .
Then you could become a club sponsor , you can become a coach , you can add on all of these different supplements to your paycheck . And that's only possible in high school , not in only in high school , not in elementary school , because in elementary school you have your with your class the whole day . You're teaching one subject with that class the whole day , so
¶ High School Teaching and Supplemental Income
there are ways to supplement your salary . Now I also tutor .
So once I got to high school I started tutoring SAT tutoring , college essays , my college , when college applications are ramping up , you know I'm busy , busy , busy helping students write college essays and , if their parents can afford to have them , a college essay tutor , an sat tutor , it's really really good money .
it's very helpful and to supplement your income so the teaching job you're tutoring you're doing after school hours , privately school private school yes , after school hours what's the going rate for a tutor in In high school ?
Yeah , For SAT tutoring , and it could be anywhere from $75 to $100 an hour .
This is really nice .
Yes . So that is helpful to supplement your salary because , as you heard , our salaries in Miami and all of Florida are not great in education .
They're terrible . I think they're lowest .
I think we're third lowest , which is insane because the cost of living in Miami has skyrocketed .
Exactly . That's why you have a lot of turnover of teachers .
No , A huge amount of turnover and a lot of the younger teachers still live with their parents and you mentioned before the size of classes .
I read that the sizes in Florida are really large . They're huge . What do you have ? 40 kids in a class 37 , 40 .
In the electives they could have 45 to 50 children in high school . It's insane and they get away with it . There's loopholes . There's things that they can do to get away with this's insane and they get away with it . There's loopholes . There's things that they can do to get away with this class size .
And do you believe that it hurts the education Children are ?
dumber , 100% . I was just reading that . Our report card , the nation's report card , is terrible . Yes , children are . It is definitely the dumbing down of society and we see it . We see it in the data , we see it in their , the way they dress , the way they look . They just look like they're so don't care about anything , and certainly not their education .
Wow , that's very sad If a vigilante teacher would want to get in and change things . Do you have any kind of creativity of what you can teach with all the book banning and curriculum restrictions ?
So I'll just talk about myself being the advanced placement literature teacher . So I taught English literature for the last five years and then I was able to teach advanced placement art history , which are these are college level courses , so the curriculum is completely separate from the Miami Dade County Public School curriculum .
So I could get away with teaching stories like Willa Cather's Paul's Case or the Yellow Wallpaper , willa Cather's Paul's Case or the Yellow Wallpaper . One of our novels was A Thousand Splendid Suns . No way a regular classroom teacher could teach that right now .
What they'll actually come in and arrest them . What ?
Yes , parents could come in and complain . I mean , we have the we passed in a couple years ago . I wrote down the exact year because I knew you were going to ask me about it in 2022, . A couple of years ago , I wrote down the exact year because I knew you were going to ask me about it In 2022, . The don't say gay bill here in Florida .
You know there's no more . Your pronoun is your pronoun that you were born with . You can get in serious trouble as a teacher . You know a student says hey , miss Goodman , can you call me this instead of this ? And I say I'm sorry , but in the grade book this is your name and this is what I have to call you in order to protect myself and my job .
Wow .
It is very scary , and especially not as much in high school but in the elementary school and the middle schools , because the children are younger and the parents are very you know the helicopter parents . It's scary for those teachers . We have a little bit more leeway .
But I will tell you , we are seeing a lot more kids not wanting to put up going to administration
¶ Curriculum Restrictions and Freedom Limitations
. Oh , my teacher said this . My teacher said that they're just immature . They've really . It really is the dumbing down of America . It's sad .
Wow . And what about the teacher union ? Don't you get organized ? Don't you try to make a change ? I mean , you are teachers after all .
Yes , Florida is . Our union is not that strong because we have . They just actually tried to take away our union .
Right , they weakened it lately .
They weakened our union and it's sad .
This is what I'm asking you . With all the problems in florida , with all that you have to teach what you have to teach and call somebody whatever they tell you , and all of that , why do people still stay teachers ?
that's a good question why do teachers still stay teachers ? Well , I'll tell you for myself . Yes , I'm out the classroom but I deal with children every day , all day long . I am the student activities director now . It is the connections that we make , especially in high school , with these children . So they're not all as I'm painting them to be .
There's still that top 20 , 25 percent that they push themselves . They're in it to win it , that they pushed themselves , they're in it to win it . They are smart and creative and they just , you know , understand , they get it . They're putting their phones down , they're reading the novels , they're doing the work , they're going the extra mile .
And you see that group , and if I can save 25 percent of them , or I can help a certain amount , then I'm going to stay and I'm going to do it . You know I meant to bring them . You know today was Valentine's Day .
Right .
The amount of cards that these kids wrote me . Wow you know I got a rose and I get , you know , notes and flowers . And you know we , as the activities director , this morning we rolled out a red carpet and we played music and every student that walked in we handed a little pink heart with candy . And you know that fills my heart , because school is not .
It's not only about the education , it's about creating a full person and having these children , who grew up to be adults , become productive members of society in every way .
Do you keep in touch with them after ?
society in every way ? Do you keep in touch with them after after they 100 ? I keep in touch with not all of them , but absolutely on they come home from college , I go to brunch with them . You know we're friends on social media .
Yes , I keep in touch with them 100 and I see what they're doing and it fills my heart yeah , I can see that yeah you have to take the good with the bad right .
You have to have the sweet and the salty or else you don't know how sweet it is . So that's why I stay in teaching .
I see the younger kids come in and especially in high school , it's hard for them , you know it's tough Because now , if you're not teaching the high level courses and you're teaching the general education or you're teaching remedial courses , you are given a script . You are teaching to a test what ? Oh yeah , you're giving a script .
It's basically like a script of what you're saying , what you're teaching . We have guidelines . There is a textbook . Yes , you are teaching to a test . These kids are tested three times . A textbook yes , you are teaching to a test .
These kids are tested three times a year and if they don't pass that test in certain grade levels , they take it till they pass or they don't graduate . These teachers are teaching to a test . The teachers are graded on their data .
So there's actually no creativity in teaching if you have to it's terrible .
It's frustrating for these teachers and that is again why I was fortunate to teach these AP level courses where I had full control of my curriculum . No one could say anything because it was not part of the Miami-Dade County curriculum . Most of the children I had in my classes were amazing . Their parents were super cooperative .
Their parents loved the novels and the stories and the poetry that we read . Oh , I read that when I was in high school , you know . So I was very lucky . But I see it with the other teachers and it was , for me at least , time for a change to kind of progress out of the classroom and into the administrative role , not to mention I make more money .
Yeah , that's what I want to ask , to mention I make more money ?
yeah , that's what I want to ask you . You make more money , but if somebody stays in teaching , what's the top that they can make in ?
florida . Yes , so if you're in high school and you have all the extras , probably about 95 to 100 000 more talking teachers have been in for about 30 years 25 , 25 to 30 years .
That's not bad , and they get pension and 401k .
They get . We have a Florida pension , yes , and we also . When you retire , you get your pension , and I know in some cities like Chicago or San Francisco the teachers get to keep their insurance forever also .
But they have to choose between their pension or their social security , whereas in Florida we don't get our insurance , but we get both a pension and our social security . Whereas in Florida we don't get our insurance , but we get both a pension and our social security .
Okay , you told us you express the rewards you know when you see your kids succeed , and all of that , which I can totally understand . What's the biggest challenge of the job ? The adults , the adults . What do you mean by the adults ?
Administration . When the district comes in and you're not doing that , well , the new rules that come down the pike every year , everything changes . Just when you're getting used to something the adults want to throw in , a brand new textbook , or everything changes . You know there's no more . You know diversity , equity and inclusion anymore . So we can't .
You know we have new stories , new textbooks , new . What do you mean ? New ? Since when New ? Since when ? In the past year or two ?
¶ Challenges: Policies, Mental Health, and Safety
So we used to be after COVID , it was very , you know , we were very mental health . Mental health . We're not even allowed to talk about mental health anymore in Florida . There's no more . It's very vanilla , I'm sure , Wonder Bread and mayonnaise , as I call it . Oh yeah .
Not only you're not making enough money and , by the way , I heard that some teachers have to spend their own money to buy supplies for the kids .
Who do you think bought the candy this morning to get out ? Miss Goodman .
Yes , but even for class supplies . I heard for lesson supplies that they have to buy some things with their own money .
Yes , so we are given money at the beginning of the year , but you can only spend it on certain things . So if you're want to buy items outside of this strict supply , then yes , you have to spend the money on your own , absolutely , and we do . We spend a lot of money outside of what we're given in the beginning of the year , which isn't that much .
It's about $250 .
I think it's really not that much . You said the challenge is the adult . I thought that you would say mental health , health and mass shooting . You know , every time there's a mass shooting they say , oh , it's mental health . But now you're telling me you're not allowed to talk about mental health .
So , marav , it's funny that you bring that up because today , february 14th , is the anniversary , the seven-year anniversary of the largest mass shooting here in Florida , marjory Stoneman Douglas . And we received from the district something to read , and this year it was a quarter of the length of what it is normally .
In the past my principal got on at 1117 or whatever the time the shooting started . I mean the horrific , horrible thing . And when he put the phone down he looked at me and he said what did I just read ? This is not what I normally read . It was very cut and dry .
It had didn't mention anything about mental health , didn't mention anything about how horrible all of this is . It was just in memoriam of those who died on February 14 , seven years ago . Blah , blah , blah .
It was heartbreaking , it's unbelievable . Let's take this situation , for example . So then , if , as a teacher , you go back to the classroom , are you allowed to talk about it and about , without saying , mental health , but say the problem in the head , or whatever ?
Yes , you can talk about it in a sort of roundabout way without using the words that we're not allowed to use anymore . I am really getting into this is .
America . This I can't believe it .
I know Well , welcome to Florida , as we'd like to say , with a d-u-h at the end wow it is difficult and you know . You talked about the mass shootings and we have drills . How often do you have drills ? We have lockdown drills . I want to say at least twice every nine weeks . I know we have a big fire drill coming up next week .
We have to keep our doors locked . It's just you know , if you constantly are thinking about that , you're going to be paralyzed with fear . You know , we just don't think about it .
Did you ever go through some ?
weapon trainings , oh no no no , not me . I'm anti weapons personally . However , we did have a lockdown . We did have a scare about a year and a half ago where they put our school on lockdown . It happens all the time .
When you say lockdown , what does it mean ? The whole school is locked inside .
The whole school is locked inside until the police officers come with their dogs and their guns drawn and check every single classroom . So we were in school . School normally lets out about 220 . This maybe happened at about 11 . We were in school till about five o'clock that day .
Thankfully it was a false alarm , but this happens every day that these schools go on lockdown every day ?
Wow , that is so depressing . So let me ask you something Can you point the students to things online that they can learn and get more knowledge than you were allowed to teach them ? Is it like in secretive , that you have to tell them like we are in ?
Russia A little bit . I feel like you have to develop a trust and communication with certain students . You know who you can talk to . However , maybe they mentioned something at home and their parents come back . It's kind of scary . It is kind of like we're in Russia .
But you have to develop a relationship with the students that you can trust to try and help them , to try and point them in the right direction .
So I don't want to end on a bad note and a depressing note , because I've been following Florida politics and all of that . That's infuriating , but it's even more than I thought . This is really crazy and it's the education , it's your next generation . How can you do that ? You know , but I don't want to end on a depressing note .
I want to know if you have a success story of a student that comes to mind that you can share with us and we will all understand why people are staying under this condition and keep educating the youth oh , I have so many success stories of so many students .
when I taught fifth grade and I moved to the high school , it was the theater pattern high school
¶ Success Stories and Why Teachers Stay
, so I taught students in fifth grade , in ninth grade , in 10th grade and in 12th grade . So some of these students I've had for four years running . So you know , I've seen students who were maybe struggling in elementary school and kind of came into their own in high school . And I have one student in mind I won't say his name .
He was struggling with his own sexuality and was able to finally , you know again , we have a lot of Hispanics and that's very , there's the machismo , but he was able to shine and really come into his own . He eventually was a water polo team , national honor society , all student government association on a whim applied to Dartmouth , got in early decision .
Oh I mean amazing , and so we have the students come back every year to speak to the seniors , our alumni and he came back this year and he's graduating and he's so happy and he looks so amazing , and that's the other thing I get to see them . They come back , and there are so many success stories .
And I don't want to end on a bad note either , because this is what I do and this is something that I will be doing for the next seven or eight years , and , yes , I will wake up at 5 30 in the morning and , yes , sometimes I don't get home till four o'clock , but you know , this is our future and it's very fulfilling .
It is fulfilling and we have to , and we have to have hope , we have to have hope . There has to be a shining light Again . I'm not going to save everybody , but I'm going to make my mark and that's what I want . I want them to carry the light . Carry the light with them .
Excellent . Do you think that student , by the way , changed anybody's mind in the school ? All the machismos ? Did it change anybody's ?
mind , in the , in the school , all the machismos . Did it change ? Did it make a dent ? Probably , he probably did , because he was , he was able to speak up for himself and he was able to rise to the top and become a leader . So , yeah , I think it did that's great absolutely that's great . I mean he showed them he sure did .
Wow , graduating from dartmouth in a couple months and , yeah , really proud of him .
That is a great story , yeah well danielle , thank you so much , that was so interesting , thank you we just hope for better days for florida , for florida's youth I agree , we , you know , shine the light right . Okay , take care bye-bye , thank you . Thank you bye-bye . Thank you , mara . Thank you Bye-bye . Okay , that's a wrap for today .
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