Why Didn't You Get the Blueberries?

into today. Carry on from last week. It's about the roles in the household and specifically the sharing of roles between men and women. And my buddy gave here is still fired up about this, and I wish this was on TV because he's kicking back, he's got his arms crossed, he's shaking his head, and you're thinking, why does anybody want to get married? No, I'm thinking, how I mean when I hear all these all I seem to year

are problems. You know, you know that everybody's just complaining about each other and and and it's it's it's almost like people are looking for silver silver linings more than blue skies. You know what, I'm saying, oh, there's a silver lining. We worked through it and that's why we're strong. But there's still a cloud and and and and it's it's hard to listen to. I have to say, it's it's about your society though, about how it's changed, because

I think that's really important. Yeah, I mean, you know, as I was listening to, do you guys discuss uh, you know, raising kids and sharing responsibilities and things like that, all of the all of the you know, the gripes about it or the difficulties about are completely valid, completely valid. I totally understand. But you know, society has changed so much it's almost unfair to expect one person or two people to raise a child anymore, not anymore to raise

a child alone. See, we have we have neighborhoods. Now in modern society, we have neighborhoods, but we don't have we don't have communities. So so you know, maybe maybe, however, many years ago, you know, maybe if the you know,

in a in a tribal society, it makes more sense. Okay, yeah, you know, you know, the you have kids and then the tribe shares the responsibility because you know, the men go off hunting and and I don't know what the women's roles work, but but they're you know, they're making pottery, they're they're cooking, they're gathering, yeah and yeah, and they have they have their roles, and the men had their roles and the kids. The kids would be with the

with the women at least until a certain age. And the boys that go off and you know, they learn hunting and things like that do all their different things. And right now in society, I feel like too much is expected of one person or two people as parents, and there is no community to rely on. And I guess that may be part of the you know, the the evolution of what you know, the schools have become.

The schools have sort of developed into these these child rearing institutions, you know, just to make it easier on the parents or whatever, um, to take some of the daytime responsibilities out or whatever, so so the parents can go out and you know, earn a living or make enough tax money, uh for you know, the government to continue functioning. Um. You know. So I just I just feel like it's it's I don't think it's one or two. I don't think it's the one person or the couple.

That is the problem. I think the social structure is really the has become the issue, and the fact that there is no community in existence, in existence that really helps raise kids. And because yes, we do live in a neighborhood, but we do not live in communities, and so we're not trusting powerful point. That's a massive social problem. It's not the problem of the couple. The couple is absorbing that problem, and that is the fundamental that is

the disease. It's also but it's also our own fault then, and it's also our own fault individually. If I move into a new if I moved to a new town, new city, new neighborhood and I do not make the effort to make friends, I will have no friends. I'll have no community. I'll live in a town but have no community. And I used to think this way about New York. I used to I'm my hometown six people, everybody knows everybody, You know everybody for the next twenty

towns over. And when I'd go to New York to play hockey, I'm like, Damn, there's the most unfriendly city ever. Everybody walks by you without with their head down on the ground looking at their feet. No, he says, hi, how's your day when you pass somebody on a sidewalk. And then then it clicked in me. People are only as friendly to me as I am to them, and my world changed. I said hi to people and say hey, man,

how are you doing. There were a lot of people were surprised by they had taken back from New York scared, but my world at least changed, and at least I took a step into versus just saying, well, this is New York and it's an unfriendly city. Let me see what my role in this being an unfriendly city is. So in same thing in the community, same thing an apartment building, same thing city, new job, office building. But they didn't say when you said, hey, it's nice to

meet you. Here, hold my baby, and I'll be back in four hours, you know what I mean. So there's only trust there. But I do think that that is a big problem. I think that one of the things I also saw in my research was that women and men were expecting so much out of each other. We're expecting two much, meaning that we were expecting everything my partner to be everything to me, And so I talk a lot about in the book about how important it

is to also have spiritual friendships. And what I mean by that is, you know, it came out of sort of my interviews with clergy for the book, and this idea that if you don't have a community anymore, right, because it used to be sort of around churches, um and synagogues and mosques, but we don't really have We have more secular society these days, and so there's less built in community. People are going to church less, there's less places to find those built in daycares and villages.

So what I found was that one rabbi actually said to me, this idea of spiritual friendship someone who wakes you up when you're asleep, someone who can come in and say, I'll hold your baby. And I think it's really beautiful for men and women to have that, because this is what I saw about men men. A lot of men were saying to me, I'm waiting for my wife to sort of see who she's friends with, to sort of make my own friendships, and so yeah, like a lot of men were saying that they only have

friends through their their partners. Yeah, I'm telling you, you may not believe this, but I went out there everywhere. I went to interviews from men from every single state in this kind of except for North Dakota in South Dakota. But other than that, they were do you know who you interviewed? You interviewed people who were willing to be interviewed. And the fundamentals of the fundamentals of interviewers and surveys is that you're always going to get a lean in

a direction that is unfair. It can never really be true cross section society because I would never do, uh, one of those things on the street. Hey, will you take this sort of like out of here? You know what I mean? Tell me do you have your own friends? Oh? Yeah, so when I moved here from me, I want to hear about your own friendships. A lot of women do not want their husbands to have female friendships because they feel threatened, and I think they're doing themselves at this

service because one person cannot fulfill pletely. Well, I'm actually curious about your listeners. I'd love for them to reach out and for them to say, do they really have, you know, their own friends that aren't through their partners. I'd be curious. So a couple of things on that On what you just on, what you just said Amy about I do not believe. And I say this to my wife. You ask my wife this. I tell her all the time. I cannot fulfill everything for you. You

cannot fulfill everything for me. It's not possible. You need other friendships, other energies, other perspectives, other conversations, other hugs, other laughter than myself. And I need it to so love you, but I also need it to somebody else. So that's number one. By the way, How great that you actually communicated that back to communication. We know that, right. It's not a defensive thing. It's just that's you need

more than me. Um. The second thing. When we got engaged in twenty uh get, I moved to l A. I was living in Anada in the off season and living playing hockey in Washington, d C. I moved to l A where I knew my wife and maybe like one other person. So I got here. She would introduce me to her friends. We'd go to an event or a friend's house. I'd meet friends through her. That's how my community started, because that was natural, that was the natural flory. But I realized very early on that I

need my friends. Where's my people and so joining a gym, joining an organization, going to the beach, going to other going to the dog park, met a ton of people at the dog park, where all of a sudden, now I have my people that I'm telling her about that she doesn't know, and that's my support system, my community that's not dependent upon her and I relationship. And I think that's healthy. Key, but it's so healthy, and it's so important in the fair play system. I deal you

three cards. You have to take. One of them is adult friendships, and it became from my Dada, Gavin. You know, whether or not you want to believe it. I just said all that escaped because people like me would never take I think I think that's correct. But also, people like you're also still singing. People lie. Actually, people like me are choosing to be So I don't think that being single as a play, it's not a problem. That's a I think it's a it's absolutely a choice. Group.

People are so shamed against it's literally you're But I wasn't shaming you. I'm jealous. Are less shameful of somebody

in an atrociously bad marriage? Then? But oh no, I wasn't actually saying anything The reason I was saying why that your single is why you may not believe that is because I do think that when you are choosing right to have to be single, you're also saying, like, I understand that I have my own identity, I have my own life, I have my own going on right beyond that right, so I hear the problems of married people and you all scare the living better. Let me

talk about this. I had a teammate once I think I said this. I had a veteran teammate guy I looked up. So I had a guy I looked up to on my team, um father, husband, respected, integral guy. And he said one comment to me that stuck with me for years until I had to trash it myself. He said, Brooksie, relationships are about doing ship you don't want to do. And so I took this on. It's like wow. I was like, man, but this was this was somebody that I looked up to. This was a

respected guy. I respected him as a man, as a husband, as a father. And then when I heard him say that, I was my perspective of relation term to like wow, I tipped my cap to every guy that's married because he's got that work had on how do you stay married? And then I was in a relationship that was that. And then when I became aware of that, I'm like, no, no, no, no. Relationships are not about doing you don't want to do. Relationships are about risking a lot of pain, really put

yourself out. Excuse me. There is you don't want to do. But you don't want to take your child to hold their hand, maybe at the doctor's office in the middle of the work day or anything. But you don't want but but but but it is part of what ultimately a lot of people choose to do. They choose to have a child with their significant other, and when you bring that person into the world, first of all, that

would be an honor for me. So I'm talking about I'm talking about being in a relationship and and being I have no issue with being in a relationship. Relationships

are awesome. It's about being in a relationship where you feel you may be stuck with someone who essentially is resenting you twenty three of twenty four hours of the day and then told socially, societally told and pressured you better make it work it and therefore and if it doesn't work, being disciplined find essentially monetarily because it didn't work out. You see how corrupt that system truly is.

Potentially that if it didn't work out, it can cost you not just the heartbreak, but everything you've earned or a portion of it is a system. But then it's right to get You have to get it right marriage. There's no problem with marriage, that's the first but to be in a scenario where people are told they have to work through things that could be the first time. Because my girlfriend married a guy for a million different reasons. This dinner, so I call it it. I'm not arguing

about chicken. She makes this dinner for him and the kids, chicken, and he comes home and says, lucky, I didn't have chicken for lunch. And I'm like, I'm not having it. And that doesn't not everybody, but I'll see what I mean. But I'll tell you about get it right the first time? Why? Well,

why I believe that Fair plays well. It's a pro marriage book because I went to men who were in their second marriages, who have children from their first marriages and their second marriages, and they are doing a lot of Maybe you don't want to do right, you take out the garbage. Adulting is stuff we don't want to do, doing the dishes, transporting kids. It takes forty three steps in the morning to get out the door with children,

forty three steps that you have to get through. These are things we don't always want to do, but it is. But but these are things, even without their sixty cards in the fair play deck that apply to relationships without kids, that you have to do in a household. I don't take forty three steps to get out the door every day, No, that's that is the one that is the morning routine card.

But there's sixty cards that are apply to relationships without kids that we may not even know we're doing with each other right, household things that we have to do. But what happens right is when you end up focusing on that as opposed to values and communication and to why you got married in the first time, you end

up leaving those relationships. And so I have a lot of men in second marriages who are doing more of those things that may seem like daily grinds that are harder to transporting their kids to school, or doing the dishes or taking the garbage out, all the crap that adult ing means the finances bill, paying whatever, and they say to me, I asked them, what's their One guy asked, I said, what's your advice? You know, you seem so much happy in your second marriage. You're really involved with

your kids. And he said to me, my advice to men out there would be to get it right the first time, because so much pain and stress I went through with my first marriage, and monetary problems right, and and penalization from having to go through a divorce. It's a penalty. And he felt crushed, crushed, and his kids were to be essentially monetarily fined for not working out in relationship. What about the kids that are involved system? What about the kids that are involved to They're fine.

I was fine when my father left, Yes, and he did get at the second time. We are right. There's a lot of emotional society costs from the divorce. So what I'm saying is like, why not invest in having these conversations earlier, sitting down with expectations. Gavin, you and I talked about how do you value garbage? But you have triggers over garbage from your childhood. We don't have these conversations and we're dating but we have garbage. But even even the kind of even I want to learn

about how you grew up. Tell me about yours from him as my boyfriend's, because this is the one big question I really have. Gavin and I have to do the dishes. We have to take the garbage out, we have to do the laundry, we have to do all. Yes, I live alone, but no one is nagging us about not getting the blue. I live alone. Man, I got a dog. I have an awesome life. I have a dog, I have a great house. I got a dishwasher, I

got a friend. Whatever I need done around the house, I do, or like someone will come clean the house. You know what I mean. And you know how many arguments I have to have. When the person comes to clean the house, I give them. I give a little their fee for the day they come and they clean the house. I'm out of the house, they clean, I come back. The house is clean. I didn't argue with anybody they took out the garbage if I hadn't taken it out. But other than that, it's just easy breezy.

But Gavin, you're talking about expectations. You guys are talking about expectations here what happens right when you come in and we have a different expectation. You know what's the opposite of expectations is I talked about this in the book disappointment. You know what the worst emotion is besides grief, disappointment.

Nobody wants to be disappointed. So I'd rather take out the garbage myself, right or understand that I'm gonna go as opposed to feeling like Gavin, you're my boyfriend and you didn't take it out for me, and now I'm disappointed in you. That's how all this starts without having real conversation about your values. Over domestic life, we have to treat our home like our most important organization. Argument

over chicken? Ever, both of you guys, you haven't and Amy like you can have everything you want and still have that partner. We have help at our house. Did have an argument over toothpaste and a coffee cup? No, it's not an argument. Okay, most people do. People has blueberry, So okay, anyway, what bore us had over orange juice?

But there's gonna be, There's gonna be, There's gonna be something whatever it is that brings about like a person can only tolerate so much, you'll tolerate a little bit, you'll tolerate a little bit more, and then there'll be one time that you're not willing to tolerate it. And then we'll reference that one time about the blueberries, about the coffee cup that plain. Yeah, we're just gonna reference Jennifer Anderson. I want you to want to do this. But here's the thing. Here is here is the over

arching umbrella of it all. In my opinion and based off my life experience, a job, a career, a whatever else, anything else to passion, anything else in this world will never be as intriguing to you as your loving relationship. And that's that's that's number one. This is predictor of longevity. Do you know that the Harvard study out of Boston for men, for men, women have different predictors of longevity.

For men, one of the number one predictors of your longevity is you're the quality of your of your relationships. Although there is a study that just came out and maybe women there's a study that just came out a couple of years ago. I'm trying to find it. Single women are the happiest of all. Well, they're also the healthiest they're how but men if the value proposition for men right, it's not about taking out the garbage, It's

not about finding our blueberries. It's about your longevity, investing in conversations about your expectations, what you want in the home so that you live a long life and you're not having women dump on your pillow and or publicly shame you on Instagram. That's my point. Women are the happiest and healthiest, So we have like an actual breakdown because if married men are happier than they're apparently making the women they're married to miserable. Well, that's that's that's

what's interesting, It's it's interesting. Well, the thing about women, right is like we just want them to be able to feel like they can communicate. And that's what your books you were saying before and there that there is willingness and an openness for me to be able to sit down with you and say if I'm having a hard time, I don't want to help her, I need your help. Even the way you just communicated that right now to me was differently than how you communicated before.

And I wish people could see that. And if you just play that back and re listen to that, because how you communicate. You dropped into a softness there where all the weapons were down and just communicated that to me. And I'm not even your partner, but it is. And we say this, it's how you communicate to your partner.

But I promise you, and this is speaking from my own experience, I am more intrigued by my wife and my relationship than the game of hockey, which I spent my whole life doing, than doing this podcast and doing anything else traveling advantage of anything in the world. My wife and my relationship and figuring her out and our dance in unison as a married couple is way more intriguing than anything else in the world. To me, I agree, unless it turns look like with the bag of garbage

in each other's hands. Yeah, and I you're gonna play that the thing I think we do we we do agree. We do agree with the with the potential of a wonderful relationship and a long lasting relationship and a lifelong relationship and a monogamous relationship and one of parenting, and all of these beautiful ideas are all perfect. Potentially A

scary thing. The scary thing is when I will sing, is when you get into territory where we need to read a book together, that's right to stay together, and that's that's what But you know what I'm saying that that that's that that's where it gets you have to that's where it gets intimidating you as as somebody expectations. Yes, you want to know who's thinking of the garbage. I will say that I've never been happier in my marriage.

I will say that I've never been happy in my marriage from a place where I was sobbing on the side of the road over blueberries, and it was, like you said, Brooks, because I was able to finally use some of my own learnings from my job as a mediator and communicate in a way that isn't drill Sergeant for my husband said, I used to talk like I have nails on a chalkboard, where that's what I sounded like anytime I wo'd ask him to do something, So why would he want to do anything if everything I

said sounded like there are nails on a chalkboard. And when I could come in and say with some vulnerability, these are things I care about because I'm drowning here I'm dying. I can't manage my clients anymore. I'm forgetting to return emails. I'm dying under this invisible work. I need you to help me. I can't give to you and to my kids. I'm losing myself. The most important thing was my identity loss. That back to you, what

you said, Gavin about society. Everybody sold me this bill of goods that once you have the beautiful ring and the great wedding dress and the kids, my life's over. Every I did every milestone I was supposed to get. I went to school, I went to Harvard. I did everything I was supposed to do. So what happens if you wake up one day and you're drowning and you don't feel like you are you anymore, and you've lost

your identity totally and you're self worth? I think I think a lot of people can can can see the potential for that. If you're if you if you have so much on your plate and so much is expected of you, and so much goes unseen that you are accomplishing, that the smallest thing that you don't get accomplished is

seen as a giant foul. Right, Yeah, And then of course you see yourself ultimately as you're the person who is is basically just checking off items on a list rather than being a human being potition to be in and whereas which you'd rather be as someone who was given no list and trusted that you were just gonna go get everything that you knew everyone needed and and he wants that we're desired. Perhaps the other person could go and pick those up if you didn't happen to

toss those in the baggy. But that's right, and you and you want that. And the problem is so many women will say to me, well, I just you know the time, and it takes me to tell him to do he should just figure it out again, but again back to so it's just but then that is why we need books, right, It's why we need systems and card games. No, I didn't say we didn't need books. I'm saying you get you know, people can get in this this dangerous place of of That's the fear for

people like like Amy. That's the fear that goes to my head is do you end up ultimately accidentally or or somehow semi intentionally in this scenario where you're deferring to professional of how do I make this thing where work? You know, this train is so far off the track. I think about it all the time because it's like, yes, I have a broken heart right now and it's freaking brutal,

but sorry, we can talk about it later. Um it's so rough, it's literally so that I know that tomorrow could be better and the next day after that could be better. Whereas I have friends in bad marriages where it's like, oh, that's just gonna suck for ever. So I think I'm really miserable crying in the bathtub, but yet I'm not. That's what's that movie something about Mary. It's like, yeah, he's like, you're living the dream, but he's like, yeah, each day is better than the next.

It's awesome. It's like, yeah, I'm so good, miserable, but I've got hope, Whereas I have these friends that are like, oh, they don't have hope. That's right. That's why I love Nora Ephron, who will talk about her as a philosopher who she says, you could be the victim of your own life or your heroine. Right, I mean, at the end of the day, if we're just going to sit around and just complain and be victims or publicly shame

our our partners through that she doesn't pick up. Then I can't help you if you're not willing to come to the table and have the conversations with the books in the Gavins of the world to say, like, I see your perspective, and I want to be in this relationship and I love you, but this is what's you know, happening to me right now, and bring your own identity into it and say, I hope you can relate to

what you may not have it happened. It's not happening to you with different perspectives, but this is what's happening to me. I'm losing my identity. Well, let me let me say first of all, I think I think in the in the era that we're in, my personal belief is that there's too much expected of women in general. I think the plate is more than full. It's no longer the option, oh should I work? Should I stay home?

Women have to work. The economy has changed, Okay, you would never be able to keep up a single uh salary and a single and come home. Can't keep up with inflation, okay, it can't compete with the market. Any longer. So women have to be out of the house. They have to be working. Fundamentally speaking, it's not a choice any longer. Right. So, now women are out there working, and of course they hit the magic age where they have to have kids. Okay, the cloth is ticking. We

all know that. We all know there's an age that comes and most of the time that becomes a new priority, and their job, although they're passionate about it, tends to take slightly a backseat because they know that clock is taking They're going to run out of time. Okay, we all know that. That's a fact, right, we all agree on that. So so what happens is now they're pressed to have kids. Now they have kids. Now, they're happy that they have kids. But the economy is still moving

the way the economy is gonna move. Inflation is still happening every year. They have to compete, they have to they have to be in the workplace. So now, because of their instincts, they want to be with the kids instinctually. Instinctually women want to be with their children. But mothers have to be with their children biologically, at least up until recent time to recent times. But men want the same they have the same instinct. They just don't have this.

We have instincts, we have instincts. There are differences. There are differences, and and wind want to be their kids, and they want to work, or now they have to work, and they want to work, but they're also going. But I want to be with the kids. I gotta have a breastpump on. I gotta have a breast pump MP. It's not something that he says. Something you say, she says, but he never says this is too much for me. I got the breast pump on the seat here. I

am right, that's not part of our equation. So, yes, there are things that are demanded of women that are not demanded of men. It's an unfair amount of things to balance trying to take by pointing out that there actually are physical differences and to ignore them would be a to deny science. Okay, so I think there are there would be to deny science. I am on your team.

But it's become an unfair amount of things for women to balance in modern day society period, because you're going to want to be with the kids and have to be with the kids for a certain amount of time period and if you don't, you get shamed. You shame. There's a shame on top of everything. But even worse, even worse is what you're saying in terms of women having children and actually having to be in the workforce. The scariest thing is that women lose ten percent of

their wages. For each child, they have five percent of their wages, and that's called the motherhood penalty. So on top of everything you just said, I'm being penalized because I'm being perceived is not wanting to be in the workforce and having some other obligations. Do you think it's perception or is it your boss is paying a certain amount of money for you to be there? You can't be there. You're in you're in labor, you're you're at a work or you're taking however from many weeks off. Well,

you know what I mean. It is what it is, right, So it depends on how you want to value mothers in the workplace. What was happening is that men when they have a child, they get six percent extra and their wages because they're seen is having to take care of their family, whereas women are seen as being pulled

away from the workforce. Right, So that's that's a that's a really um, it's a tough, tough, brutal place out there for women who want to be mothers, who want to stay in the workforce, because then if you're paid less than your partner, then you know what happens. Then you start saying things like, well, maybe it's not worth it for me to be in the workforce, or I'm gonna take a career detour, And four of women with kids take a career detour. So, like you said, there

is these unreal expectations. What what would detour would be, uh, leaving your job, quitting and then coming back in the workforce. A detour would be taking a step down, um, you know, not being partner at a law firm, being of counsel,

and that's what. So but that's a lot of women's I also think and we I know we have to go, but I want to talk about this next sometime in the next episodes, because I literally do think we're forgetting how much shame we place on people who don't want to have kids and who don't want to get married, how much people are much if you're just a person looking at a single person or looking at people in

crappy marriages. People are much more like, oh, but they're trying and they need to keep at it and look at them they have love and like, is the single person so well? Any I'm obsessed with that topic. I don't feel that. I don't feel that. I think people need to email us, like single women need to email men at iHeart Radio and say do you feel like such a because back, I'll just say one last thing about being so I know we have to go. That is a very important point because that's shaming of women

and men single people in general, especially women. It leads to this idea of what I just said to you before, what happens if all the milestones you told me in society you're supposed to make me happy don't make me happy. Can your next book be this? Because let's think that article that says single, childless women are the happiest people there are other than the stink I were super happy. So, like,

my next book is called Unicorn Space. It's about what happens when you lose your identity, especially after being in a couple and with a child, especially for women. Men have this happen to them too, because we were told these are the things that make us happy, the white pick, events, the beautiful house, and I don't need to remember who I was before kids anymore, when you can reclaim your passion. If I said to you can never sing again, I mean,

how would that feel to you? I have women men all over saying, well, I just I left my skis in the airport. I stopped singing. I don't do my poetry anymore. I don't think it is, but it's also something we have to remind people that it is. It's not paid. And back to what you said about a Mary, we hold a lot of value for things that are paid, and we're tax and everything's in money monetary terms. There's

something important about just being who we are. I think quit their jobs to have kids and they are well, what about the shaming that happens with women who who didn't go get a full time job and became mothers. The few women who the few women who were were afforded that. Who you know, if their husbands making a bunch of money and they get to stay home with their kids or stay home with their kids, what about the shaming? What about the shaming? What about what about

the shaming of people who are full time mothers? When did that become uh, somehow this horrible thing. Who would turn their nose up at a mother? What's more important motherhood or your day job? But you know, my father would never say, because my father would never say that his job was more important than his fatherhood. My father would have stayed at home every day if we had the money, you know, but instead he had to work doubles.

So you know, so so I want to know who, fundamentally at the source made a woman feel is making a woman feel guilty for being a mom? I mean, what is more important than being a parent in your life? I mean, fundamentally speaking, I'm not I'm not a parent, but what what what could possibly be a more important

job than that? And and you do you do hear stories about moms saying, well, yeah, they made me feel uncomfortable at the dinner table because they asked me what I do and I said, I'm I'm the mother of these these kids. You know that's it. They say, well, what about is that? Like? What are you talking about? Value? But society doesn't value you? Go into the courts. I had this said that to me. She she took two two decades off to raise her kids. She goes in

her husband doesn't want to pay alimony. California, the best state in the Union for marital fairness issues her something called a Gavron warning, your duty to become self sufficient within six months. And she said, what is what is the value court judge of raising these two human beings? Do you value this? And they said, well that was your choice. Two decades. She gave up her earning potential. She wanted to invest in being a mother. The court

shamed her with this Gavron warning. And so if you have to get back in the workforce within six months, she's now a Mary Kay representative driving a lift, going back for her nursing degree. Brutal because they don't value the invisible work. And so if anybody gets anything out of this podcast is to say what Brooks said before, allow men into their full power in the home. Let's

invite men into their full power in the home. Because I do believe, like your father and like you, there is the beauty of being a parent, of being a partner is our most important human connection is what makes good human beings. When you said hi to someone on the subway, maybe that person didn't go out and chop someone's head off that day. Human connections matter, or he said hi and they said he said hi, I'll do it to him, right, Do you save someone else from

there getting their head chopped off? And so human connections matter. It's not about blueberries and glue sticks. It's about being the best person we can be looking at each other and saying we were seen. And that's actually what bars was saying before about his app. It's about we all want to be in a community where we're seeing. Yeah,

that's what it's about. Um, where can because you've given so much to our community, where can our community find you, get in contact with you, find the book all of that. Just follow me in eve Rodsky on Instagram or fair play life. So let's go to spell that out for Yes, it's at eve Rodsky e V E r O d s k y and they can find everything there, all the articles I've written, uh, and the book and we'll link to everything here on our how Men Think podcast Instagram.

Thank you, that was one of the most Thank you. That was one of the most polarizing debates I think we've ever had. So great. Yeah, are you kidding? And we'd love to get your thoughts on this. We got a new system set up. We've got a voicemail where you guys can send us your questions and we'll play

them on air, will answer them. Our number is one eight eight eight four three zero one seven seven seven once again one eight eight zero seventeen seventy seven, So send us your questions, let leave us a voicemail, will answer on air. Thank you guys for listening. We appreciate you. Until next time, take care of one another, Love one another, love it baby, love one another. Gab and we'll see right back here next week for another episode of How Men Think