Sexual Healing

good editors. Eastern is an amazing editor. Were lying on here. We have you backed up, buddy, But I'm glad you. How can you never ask me how I'm doing? I say what's up? You say what's up? I said, what's up? We do? Okay? How are you doing well? Gavin? Should you ask? If you ask me how I'm doing, I'm a say feeling Just come on? I would and say, I still know? Brother? How do you finish it for me? I exercise at your house? That was Gavin's hit if

you guys, you guys didn't recognize it. I didn't singing it like him. I know the song. I didn't recognize your version, but I know the song. Come on, I wasn't gonna join in. It was beautiful. I practice that thing about thousand dollars. Now, where's my check books? It's always the money with you, Gavi. It's always the money with you, buddy. I need a grotto. Well, I love the song, buddy, that was I tried my best. I even took a singing lesson. Yeah, I did. I went

to exercise class once upon a time. I appreciate that, buddy, same same team. We got the other dudes in house to Ryan, what's up, brother, good to be here, into the mic. There we good to be here. Thank you, buddy. How's life with you? Life is good? Looking forward to our guest today. Yeah, we'll get to that in a moment. We got Dmitri, what's out, dude? How much you were perplexed by Ryan's It's just weird? Just I was. I thought I was trying to talking, and he just leaned

back in. He's like, looking forward to our guests today, and it just seemed a little weird to me. Okay, I was taken aback, Rick, what's up, buddy? Not being creepy is kind of cool sometimes just in the corner, just looking at everybody else down. Uh. Well, last episode, gents, we had a dynamite episode. My wife Julianne Huff was on and the response from the listeners, from you guys listening has been absolutely insane. Has been our best episode yet,

absolutely incredible. Our inboxes filled up man at I heeart radio dot com. You sent so many questions and comments about intimacy and that show, so we wanted to follow that show up with this show and with another special guest, an intimacy expert, Lela de Ville is here for us. Lela, thanks for having me, guys, thank you for coming. So we like it, says your intimacy expert. And I'll be the first one to ask, what is an intimacy experts? Well,

I call myself sex an intimacy coach. So basically, I basically um equip people with the tools to discover their authentic expression and sex and how to deeply connect with their partner. Wow. So I worked to really unravel and unkink any kind of barriers that people are having to towards intimacy and give them practices and tools to bring into their partnership to deepen their experience of sex and deepen yeah connection. So do you work a How long

have you been in the field? It's I always get asked, so, how did you get into this into this field? And basically it it came from I wasn't like some sexual goddess that was just inherently tapped into all the virtues of UM sexual connection. Basically I got into this field and I was seventeen. Yeah A, sorry, So it was just an area that I really needed to work on

for myself. And it was about a decade in that I realized that this wasn't it wasn't a personal failure of mine, but more of a gaping hole in society that wasn't being filled by anything meaningful UM. And so I started researching more UM, studying more, and then started to offer this as a service to UM to men and women. So do you work with do you work with? Couples? Do you work with like if the the guy is having problem creating intimacy or having questions like how how

was the process for our people listening? How was the process? Who contacts you? Uh? Is it couples seeking to work together?

Individuals seeking to learn more about their partner? No, Usually it's the women reaching out to me, and so I am primarily these days work with women UM and I choose to work with one on one before I work with a couple UM because I feel like there's a lot of like inner work and a lot of like wounds and barriers to intimacy and connection UM for the individual, and so I worked to to kind of unravel those first before working with a couple, and I usually have

worked with the woman first. Goes back to what we were talking about last year about offering the best version of yourself to your partner and if you yourself are fulfilled and happy and joyous that you can then offer something to your partner versus seeking something from your partner to fill you up. I'll let you guys jump in

with us. Guys, any questions for Leela? I kind a question do you do you find the majority of your your patients, your female clients patients UM clients clients UM are are are people who had some sort of abuse issue or these this this has nothing to do fundamentally for the most part, it's not necessarily abuse based personality types that you and it No, it's not personality types or people who have experienced anything in particular, it's really

women who are wanting to experience more than they're currently experiencing. There's nothing necessarily wrong even and what their experience. They just want more, you know, they're craving more. They're hungry for more in which way, a physical way, in an emotional way. Well it's a lighted thing, right. We usually think, oh, yeah, they want more sex, more, more intimacy, they want more connection, they want to feel more than what they're what they're

able to do on their own. So do they come in typically like thinking that it may be the partner's fault at the beginning and saying like, oh, she's not into me or or he's not into me or whatever that may be. Yea, sometimes I mean, I mean we're quick to externalized generally in life. So you know, sometimes yeah, there is all my partners doing this and I'm not attracted her anymore and I don't want it and there's something wrong with him. But you know, and men do

the same thing. She's not wanting to you know, we do this and so um, I always guide people back to themselves and work on that level first. And because we're always evoking or as evoking from our partners. Um, we're evoking either closeness or distance where you know, this is this is how we relate. And what would be kind of the first step that you would you would kind of as you see a client, like you would

take with that person. Obviously depending on what their cases or what they're they're looking for help with, you know, what would they what would you advise them? Um, it's the first thing I generally do with anybody I'm working with, men or women is to unravel the preconceptions and mindsets they have around sexuality that are really preventing them from

experiencing what they want to experience. So, you know, we have all these ideas around sex and four play and penetration that you know, like that sex is everything other than penetration is for play, and it kind of makes penetration the main event of an experience, and a lot of women are wanting something else other than that. They

want that, but they want all the stuff beforehand. And so if we're if we're just going directly to like four play penetration in the end, it's it makes it a very narrow experience, and women are wanting to be moved in a different way other than just having the

default thing play out in front of them. It almost seems like a transactional versus a connection, and orgasm has become like this trophy that we're just basically passing backwards and forwards between each other, reminding us that we're great lovers, you know. And I think there's just so more than then these kind of mindsets that we've constructed around sex

and how it should play out. Um, and so I work to kind of re kind of broaden the definitions of some of these terms and and to help women kind of try to articulate what it is they're actually seeking. You know, it's not you know, I'm a I'm a sex and intimacy coach, but probably ten pc of what I do is technique based or the mechanics of sex. Yeah. Yeah, because it's really guiding someone into their instinct and how can they connect with themselves so they then can connect

with their partner. And this is a big one for the guys out there listening, because, um, you know, if you're not attuned to yourself, then you can't attune to another person. If you can't feel what is going on in your body, and you're just like going into the default, and it's become performative and um, not even performative, but you're just like you there's just a routine to it where the touch is non santaneous. Then then you're not

connecting with the person who's with you. You're not able to respond to her or him because you're just playing out this. Yeah exactly. I think that's an interesting thing that you said, is that I think a lot of people get to a point in a relationship where they think, all right, well, if there's no orgasm, it was a failure. Yeah. And you know, we have such a narrow definition of orgasm, especially for a woman. It's it's not the same like this probably is many different types of orgasm as there

are women having them. You know, they don't necessarily look like what you've seen in porn or the media. It doesn't have to follow that trajectory, you know. And so we're all seeking this one thing. And so that's what I mean. I'm trying to unwind some of that, some of these definitions and strongholds that we have around what

we want to experience sexually. Because for a woman, whether she climaxes or not is not is not the thing, you know, she could use her vibrator and get off better then she could and quicker than she could with a man. Or She's seeking is something that's more trude at the moment and more of a play between her and her partner. That's like most women want more true to the moment sex. I don't want to necessarily want one particular style or way of getting off. They just

want what's true to the moment. For the record, for what you said before, I'm actually a big fan of the stuff that comes before. Yeah, you know that, that lead up and stuff. I think there's a lot still even by saying before, you're still saying that there's that I will not um. I thought that's how you referred to you said before penetration. There's a lot of stuff

that can happen. That's why I use that phrasing. Hey, sometimes I wish three defined for play to mean something like we could call it core play, because if we're just going from A to B and then that's the end, and there's all this there's a whole alphabet to explore. There's so much in there to explore, and so if we're just going for that one thing, what could be some examples of that of instead of just four players,

I think we all know probably what that is. What could be some other examples of instead of a to B and done, what could be a B, C, D. Anything your imagination can think up. And that's real between your you and your partner that doesn't involve penetration. And is there ever a time that you, as a female or your clients want to skip the like? Are you saying that there's never a time when you just want to go straight? No? Totally, There totally is, but that's

the default. Absolutely sometimes. Yeah, we women want to be taken. They want that intensity, and a lot of the a lot of women don't want that all the time and they want something else. But they want just what's true in the moment and what is real. And but it takes connecting to yourself first as a man, so then you can then attune to yourself and then you can attune to your partner. So it's showing up with that

full presence. That's the biggest gift that you can bring as a man to a sexual UM encounter is your full presence so that you can respond. Wow. Okay, so we have a caller here that just called in UM we have a listener who's willing to share her story and we'd love Leela for you to chime in on this, so can we bring her in? She's on with us. Hello, welcome to how men think. We appreciate you calling in

and we appreciate you being vulnerable. Um. We won't require your name, we won't ask you to say your name, but we know you have a question. Can you please ask it? We have Leela here who's going to help us answer it. Hi, Hi h. I have been married for over ten years and things aren't great. Don't communicate at all. There's like no intimacy, whether it's an emotional or physical, and I don't know what to do. Do you have a desire? Maybe let's start here. Is your

desired outcome of this? Are you? Are you? You're seeking more connection? You're seeking what would be the what would be the desired outcome where your relationship would look like what? Well? I mean, I want to be in a relationship where I feel like my buckets being filled and we're having fun and connecting in a lot of different ways. Totally here you and just a couple of questions I just

wanted to ask, just so I can get some perspective. Um, do you have children, Yes, which makes it all much tougher. And um, how long were you together before you had children? Um? Maybe like two years. We got pregnant, like six months after our wedding, Yeah, quick. And can can you remember a time where the intimacy and connection was there for you? Well physically, I mean, I gotta say, it's never been

like the greatest sex of my life. But I just thought that maybe that didn't matter at a certain age and the other stuff was more important, like being a great provider, being a great potential father, you know, things I thought stattered more. But now I realize it all matters. Yeah, it does. And you know, desire doesn't remain constant through a lifetime, let alone day to day, week to week,

moment to moment. So you know, as we transition through the different phases of womanhood and enter into motherhood, things can drastically change. And one thing I really find with um with mothers is that, you know, sex becomes really undesirable when it is a place where you're always going to empty your cup. You know, it's not something that necessarily fills you up. And the usually what becomes glaringly

apparent when you become a mother. Is that how much you've been partner pleasing in your previous sexual experience before becoming a mother, because that just doesn't fly. When you become a mom, you know you're giving everywhere. You're giving, giving to the family, giving to your kids, that maybe breastfeeding, and you know you're just given, given, giving. So if sex then is a place where you're continuing to give,

then you're not going to desire it very much. And I feel like to for me, like I'm a woman. I can't just be expected to be at home all day like doing laundry and that like take off my feel amazing that I didn't have you lay on top of me, you know, like I need a little like emotional connection, like I'm a lady, you know that's what I need. Absolutely. Can I ask a question, did you have you ever had you said it was never great?

Did you ever have instances or moments where you're like, oh, like there was a a little bit of it or you thought this is what it is. Have you ever had any even part of connection with your husband where you've been like this is what it is and you just can't recapture it or you never or have you

never even felt it at all. I feel like there's like some performance stuff for him, and when we are doing it, he's like really in his own head and he's not present with me, and so I can feel like the anxiety of like, oh what if I can't do this? And so it just doesn't like I don't feel connected when we're doing it. So it just feels very like, let's just get this over with on his end to like finish. But again, I'm a lady, I need something different than that. So yeah, I just thought

it would get better. I don't know, I don't know what I thought. I guess I wasn't thinking yea, And know that you know this isn't like a failure of yours. It's there's a myths to think that this just happens naturally. That you know that in a good relationship, intimacy is just there. But I see it more as a skill, and especially as a relationship continues, it's a skill that you develop and it's something that you also have to prioritize.

So you know, if you're in like a sex rut um, that there definitely needs to be a conversation um that has to be had, and I want you to know that anything that you want to communicate can be communicated, um in a way that is effective and that doesn't make someone feel bad and doesn't like diminish um their

self self esteem. And I think that's one of the main reasons why women choose not to communicate within their relationship is if afraid of crushing crushing the ego and um, there is a way, and the way usually is to have a conversation and to state, like what your intention is and what you want more of, and it comes from you know, I would like more of this. I remember or I remember a time when when it was like this, and I would really love to experience more

of that. Or if or if you've been partner pleasing your whole life and always been about a man's pleasure, then it might be that you want to discover your your pleasure and you would like his help to do that, And there's I want you to know that that's going to make him feel that Like a man is usually very wrapped up in their partner's pleasure, like that's what makes him feel like the best love it. You guys can maybe attest to this, but like that I don't

think he's like that at all. Like he's so like he's funny about it, Like he's so like I was never like that before I met him. I was very open and he's like super embarrassed about it. I don't know.

It's like, well, which is like totally normal. And where we've we you know, where we've all learned from sex from you know, there's there's usually a lot of shame, but at the core of it, I can tell you that usually a man is very invested in their partner's pleasure and and maybe if you haven't been having sex for quite some time, then you know that he his sense of his masculinity is so diminished that he needs a bit of a build up. Can can I ask

you a hard question? Um, we're do you have previous relationships that were better that maybe you're relating the experience of sex too, and that maybe he's just not as

strong in that department as maybe previously. I mean, I definitely think that when we met, I was like I had had my heartbroken by the person that I thought was the love of my life, and you know, I don't know if I was fully over that relationship, and you know, he was so nice and he was easy to be with, and we were like really good friends, and so I just kind of put my blinders on and I put my head to the grind and I

was like, all, Kay, this works. So would you say would you say would you say now that you are over that relationship or is that still somewhat present in your mind sometimes? I mean not on a daily basis, but I mean, of course, it's definitely something like if you don't have closure on something, you're always going to

like wonder. But um, have you communicated to him? Because from a man standpoint, just like when my wife, when my wife tells me something that she would like me to do sexually or in the bedroom, or something she doesn't like that I do, I'm very receptive of it because of one how my wife delivers it. She delivers it very genuinely and and in such a way that

I'm very receptive. Um, have you communicated clearly what he might not be doing well, or what he's doing that's not turning you on, or have those kinds of discussions From a man standpoint, we are open to those. Um, if he is a confident man, he won't take that as a blow to his ego and for other listeners, if you have a partner, you're saying, I can't Can

I bring this up with my partner? Yeah, we love like I love my wife, So I want my wife to feel safe enough to be able to bring up any sort of conversation that she wants, especially with intimacy and sex. So have you had communication with him in that regard? Put his hands in places and I told

him what I like and I don't like. But I think part of the part of our problem is we don't have the emotional intimacy to make the physical intimacy a safe place, you know what I mean, we don't have like, but he's not the person I would go to first, like. I don't know. I mean, we just don't have the emotional intimacy that you need to have that be what happens in the bed room. I think is part of the problem. Are you in love with

him anymore? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. That's a tough question because there's like, there's usually so many layers, so many liers. That's that question. It's just hard. I feel like, you know, we're just also I'm in my worries, so you know, I'm kind of like women their forties kind of like get it all together and we're like figuring stuff out, and I feel like we kind of wake up a little bit, and I just feel like we're going in different directions and it's not helping any

of the other stuff. And I think it's I think it's apparent to me that you guys need to get on the same team and and have a chat about what the purpose of your relationship is, what you what your intention for your relationship is, and then how you can see that, how you can see that moving forward, right, you know, beyond beyond the sex stuff. I agree, because we can't. I feel like we can't even get there until all this other stuff exactly. Exactly. The sex is

just a symptom of of everything else. So if you can get on the same team, and if you are on the same team, if you can prioritize intimacy and connection not sex. I'm not saying like prioritize, you know, like having penetrative sex and like just going for it. I'm just saying creating a space for intimacy where you can connect and hear each other and get into that space of saneness like I am a human, you're a human.

I have a heart, you have a heart. This is a let's let's connect, Like I think that's that's the wayful it can I bring up one thing that that that I heard that you said was he seems to be in his own head about it. Is it possible? And this is something we're talking about, you know obviously right before you called in and Leela, you can guide

this if it's in his own head. If he's thinking I have to do this, I have to bring her to orgasm, I have to get her to this point, like he's thinking that trophy like this is going to be a failure if I don't get to the point. Could that be why he's in his own head and he's thinking I gotta get He doesn't stay hard a lot of times, So I think it's which happens with men.

That's nothing, that's a that's a feeling the pressure to absolutely it doesn't accept me or doesn't make you think like, oh he's terrible, But I think it makes him feel that way. And I've said a million times like it's no big deal, um, but yeah, and if he's in and as long as we've been together, I've never felt like he was someone where I could be like open or myself in the bedroom, you know, m hmmm. How often? How often? How frequently would you say that you guys

are having sex? And how do you what goes into that process? And by that, I mean how does it happen? You know? Is it a scheduled thing? Is it is there any spontaneity whatsoever? How does it all come about right now or is not? Um But when we still kind of were, it was probably like once or twice a month, and then it was either like at night after the kids went to bad. It wasn't like scheduled. It was I could always like you can always tell when it's coming. I don't know, like how often? How

about this question? How often would you guys do something that could have the potential to lead to sex, whether it's a date night, whether it's cuddling on the couch or a little mini vacation, get the parents to watch the kids, or something like? How often would you proactively create something in your relationship that could potentially lead to a physical connection. Well, there's the problem because the answer is pretty much never. Yeah, I feel like there's a

there's an insecurity problem with him. And I'm not saying that's the whole thing. Yeah, he's not he's not able to perform. You said he's afraid he'll he'll lose his erection, he'll go soft. And it's like, so I guarantee the moment you guys start kissing or something in his head he's like, oh my god, I hope this doesn't happen. And yeah, absolutely, and it's likely he's stressed. He has

anxiety around it, the whole, the whole gambit. But but since we have of her on on the call, I think you know, I heard you say that you know you during your day you're just like with the kids or you you know, you're not feeling it. You're not feeling it yourself, right, And and so the gift to yourself is to prioritize your pleasure and to bring yourself more pleasure. Not talking about yeah, but I'm saying to like to live that turn on, not just like to

get yourself off through masturbation. I'm talking to live that turn onto and to feel pleasure in your body, to take care of yourself and to do things that make you feel sexy. Well, I just actually, um like over the last year started doing that. I started prioritizing myself and getting in shape and working out and exercising and dressed like getting dressed up. And I've been doing that and I'm feeling great about myself. I am having like the best year have had personally. Have you seen any

response from him? And actually it's a little bit of like threaten. I feel like, man, does he know that you that you are taking care of on your own? Accord? Is he? Is he aware of that? I don't think so.

Do you think if he were to find out that you were masturbating on your own that he would feel inadequate or that would change his course of action in some way, and that he would you know, because speaking from personal experience, I would be almost offended in a way if really, if I wouldn't if it's not a to if I am physically home and we could be having sex, but you're choosing to take care of it yourself, to me, that's offensive. I think there's a big problem there.

So what if you can't perform? But what if you or what if you're like away for a weekend or something like you travel for work. If you if I'm away it's just like a story. But it doesn't seem like he is away and that she's trying to save him the It sounds almost like she's so she's tiptoeing around his emotions so much so she's trying to save him the embarrassment of performing or lacking the ability to perform. Therefore, she's caring herself so as to spare him the the

the embarrassment. Have you lost the polarity in the relationship, Like do you do you look at him like a man? Like he is a man? No? No, no, has it been a long time? Has he ever? Have you ever looked at him like with lost and desire? Like I love my look at this man. He just I am drawn to him like a magnet. Has it ever been like that? It's hard to say because of where my headspace is right now, But I don't think so. But sometimes that's not inherent, that's not always there. Sometimes that

needs to be cultivated. And that's a choice. Yeah, right, Like both want you want to get on the same page, but she has to choose that too. Yeah. True, And I'm definitely not right now uptick of trying to you know, of exercising and doing whatever for him. Have there been other men that have come towards you at that time? I mean I don't. I mean I don't know. Like I'm like a mom with little kids, so not like you, and you know, very different in this society. When you're

a mom, it's not saying. It's not saying in the same way with a guy with kids is like you talk to me. But I mean, maybe they thought my kids was cute. I don't know. Um, I don't know. Maybe and that attention if it must feel good. I mean, if if a man doesn't provide attention to his significant other, to his wife, I believe that any person will go somewhere else to get it. To me, it sounds to me it sounds like he needs to step up. Not saying that maybe you both aren't guilty, but I'm not

hearing any effort from his side of this. I'd love to get him into the booth here. Well, let's not get carried away. Yeah, I don't know, it's just hard. It's just hard or not. But so let me let me can I can I step in on this? Can I step on it? Because? Um, that happens for men, So that's it's not a choice. He didn't make this choice to have that happen. And I'll say this that I have played with teammates that are physical specimens in the NHL, like I've played with teammates that have had

that issue. Yea. And these some of these guys are young, guys could be as young as twenty five. I've played with guys that are physical specimens that have had troubles performing in in bed didn't help when you played with them? What's up? So I'm I'm I'm not trying to say that, like I'm not trying to protect him or say but I'm just saying, like, it does happen to men, but certainly it can. It can affect a man's confidence and his mindset when he knows that that can possibly be

an issue. But there's there's viagraa there, there's a lot of information and pharmaceuticals out there that can help you work. Right, And you said that he kind of makes he makes light of it, right, You said, he kind of jokes about the whole thing. Now, yeah, and we know we don't we don't talk about it. Leela had a great point here. So I said, pharmaceuticals and Leela, because this is something I've got into and my wife is really into. Can you say what you just said? Yeah, I mean

with I just said something about energetic work. Um, you know that we don't always have to lean into the pharmaceuticals and a lot of this can just be energetic. Like there's a not enough. Um. That's why I asked if he was stressed or he has anxiety, because that will deplete the amount of sexual energy is in his body. So, um, you know, if you stress out at work or he has all these anxiety issues and his sexual energy will

be diminished. But there's a lot of work. You know, there's Tanto workers, Taoist work, which elevates sexual energy in the body and gives gives them a man practices to to to stay hard. And I also want to point out that, you know, the intimacy that you you're craving might not even need for him to be hard. It is a desire to be connected with and a desire

to be um penetrated with presence, right. I think that's part of the problem though, like I said earlier, is I feel like if you're not there emotionally, then the other stuff is really hard. You know, for me, anyway, I don't know. Well, you know that that's really how women work, you know, It's it's top down for a woman at all, initiates in the heart center first and then flows down to um, to the genitals and to being turned on. But for the for a guy, it's

kind of the opposite. Yeah, so what what do you have any more questions? Leela? Do you have any last questions for lela um And we want we want it to be great. I appreciate it. I think I think having a conversation is needed and and state your intention, you know, and get really clear on that for yourself. What is your intention? What do you want? What? What are you hungry for? What are you deeply craving? Right? Yeah, right, I know. Well, we appreciate the call. Thank you so much.

We hope you'll keep us informed. Stay with us, yeah, stay with us, let us know how your journey goes, and then we'll be back after this break with some more questions from Leela. This is how men think. I'm Brooks like. And that was a fantastic call. That was our first phone call on the show. And that was your right, gab. That was heavy, That was somebody's life, big decisions in their life. Uh, and I hope we were able to help her somewhat in her journey. But Lela,

in your opinion, what should she do? I think it's really important for her to get clear on her intention for or this particular relationship and even broader than that, what she feels the purpose of relationship is, you know, is is the purpose of relationship to be comfortable? Is the purpose of her relationship to like just have mad sex? You know? Is it? For a lot of people at the core about what it is is they want growth

and they want to heal. And so if she feels that she can do that with this partner, because this is beyond sex, you know what, what she's explaining to us, this isn't really about sex. Sex is a symptom of the fact that they don't have They're not well, she's

not currently experiencing intimacy and connection. So getting clear on what she feels the purpose of the relationship is and then what she wants, you know, and taking that to her partner and having a really a conversation about it that isn't about blame or even complaining, but just like what's your what what do you want? How do you want to live this life? What experience do you want

to have? I think these are the bigger questions that the symptom of her sexual experience of pointing out to me, this sounds like, um, the whole relationship even almost sounds like it started as almost It's like it sounded like as like an emotional shipwreck. Anyway. It's sort of like she had a relationship someone she was in love with, it didn't work out, she was lost at sea, perhaps met somebody else who perhaps was also lost at sea.

They end up in basically just salvaging each other, living in the same rescue boat, and not necessarily so passionate about each other other than the fact that they're in a boat. Um, and you know, and and that sounds like the whole thing. Now they've run out of their emergency supplies, but they're still in the boat. And there there is no there is no island even in sight to her other than just anywhere else but here. I

can't be in this boat any longer. And I have to tell you, Um, it's to me, there's I mean, I'm being it's not my place to say, but being that this is a show about entertainment, I don't have to be as personally invested. And I could just give you my two cents, which is that there's certain things that are not worth um salvaging, certain scenarios, certain things of course you don't want you you don't want, you

don't want to risk certain um catastrophic collateral damage. And it's just someone with children, So children are the priority to me. There's almost no point of getting married until it's children time. Um, so you know, you you have your relationship, but it really essentially is about heading towards the path of having a family and creating a secure home. Right.

But it sounds like it wasn't. This was almost This is a big swing at something that was almost really a reactionary relationship to begin with, and it turned into a lifelong uh sentence. Yeah. I hear from her though, because she's been in a ten years. You know this, This isn't like a short stint. I feel like there is something in there that's keeping her there and it's likely why she got involved with this particular guy in the first place. Like we we all have wounds, we

all have childhood wounds. A lot of the time we're recreating scenarios from our younger life. Um, you know, but you know even before we were five, which we're recreating those kind of like relationship dynamics and scenarios. And so she's entered into this one with all her wounds, but her relationship can be an environment to heal those. And that's why I say, get really clear on what the purpose of relationship is, because is it just meant to

be smooth sailing. If it's meant to be smooth sailing, as soon as something gets uncomfortable, then we're like then we're on rocky ground and we're almost one ft in one ft out. So if this, if this relationship can potentially be healing of those wounds, then it's a great relationship. And if they can, I'm at each other, at each other with that, it can be beautiful. It sounds like it sounds like she signed up for comfortable in the smooth sailing versus like I'm love with this guy and

I cannot not have this guy. Sounds like such a It just sounds this to me, sounds so contractual and and and there's no passion, and I mean it's not for me, it's not to me. I'm looking for a full life, right, every every day should be this amazing potentially an experience, right like a great day, and I'm looking for an awesome day. I get one life here

in my opinion. You know what religion you guys are, But I'm of the opinion that I get this kind of one go around here on the planet, and I want to enjoy the company that I'm in fully, and if I'm not getting great company, I need to find different company. Then again, I'm not married and I don't have children, so I'm just speaking for that perspective. No, I just want to grab and I agree with you. I think I think if I were to offer advice

to you, call her. You know, life is short, you know, like you need to probably get out of this relationship to be frank with you, and then move on and meet somebody else that you are going to be happy with. That being said, every time that you are calling your friends or talking to somebody else, maybe it's a relative about this situation. You need to turn right around and

go talk to that partner. That is where you agree with your time in not calling your friends and complaining and not calling you know, looking in the mirror, doing and taking an alternative path that is the time you need to turn around and go talk to your husband and that man. Definitely call hell man think it helps our show. Have you noticed though, how in a relationship, how we leave one and then we just go and

recreate it with another one. So I feel like that there's still something there that that that needs to be looked at. Is that's going to keep her in the relationship? Doesn't I don't know. I don't know. Let's just be open to that curiosity. But she needs to figure that out. And if you know, maybe they do break up and she moves on, and but at least heal that piece that hasn't quite got there yet because she recreated in another scenario. Right, So what do you think? Let's let's

pull what do you think? Break up? Gav or stay together? What do you think? Man? You heard my opinion? I mean I I for the most part, I just think this is this is this is a lifeboat that's got no supplies left in it. And that's that's how I feel about it. It doesn't mean that the man doesn't that her partner doesn't deserve a great conversation and honest conversation, But I feel like they need to come to terms and they need to both seek new islands to settle on.

I agree. I think I don't hear any passion in there, and certainly I don't hear a lot of effort from his side. And granted we just got her story, but I don't hear a lot of effort he had. There's two sides every story. I don't hear a lot of effort from his side. I don't hear a lot of passion in there. They are still young. She is still young. If she is thirty five, forty, mid forties, you still have that. You're not even at the halfway point of

your life. So there's so much more opportunity ahead for if if she might just be missing bravery or courage, it's a massive decision. You have kids involved. I don't have kids, so I don't understand what the ramification is. Your perspectively changed with kids. So maybe I'll defer to you guys. But I think she's got so much life ahead, and I think she should look at that and want

to live that as happy as she can. I agree with you, man, Since she has kids, she is going to be in a relationship with this person, whether they're intimate or not whether in romantic relationship or not. They're gonna be co parenting these kids. So yeah, he deserves a conversation. They deserve a conversation. Meet each other with respect, have the conversation what and and then decide, you know,

and then then see what transpires. Yeah, and then the fundamentally they may have both grown to be attracted to different things anyway at this point. I mean, it's not a linear thing, right, So life is long. People's taste change over time as well. And and you know, what he found attractive at one point maybe different now. What she found attractive at one point maybe different now. And our priorities also shifted. The equation isn't constantly evolving. One

would Julila ever, you know I'm thinking about this. Would you ever advise her to go to her husband, to give him, essentially an ultimatum, to say, look, this is what I need. I want to be back in love with you like we were when we got married. These are the things that I need from you to continue in this marriage, for our kids, for me, these are the things I need from you to be happy again. If you are not interested in fulfilling those needs, then

we need to seriously consider parting ways. And I realized that is it could be perceived as a threat or harsh, But I personally respond in a way, if I know that that I might lose her and that I then may lose of the time with my children, that is really impactful for me, and it may prompt me to want to give her those things and give her all, you know, all the things that she laid out that

she's craving. I would make more of a concerted effort to deliver those if I knew my entire marriage, my kids, everything was on the line, it could work. Um. Again, it takes her getting clear and what her intention is and what she wants for herself, because she currently is not clear. Um. And the fear I have around the ultimatum is that given what we we really don't know what his state is. We don't know if this guy has depression. We don't know what he's contending with in

his life. We don't know the wounds that have been triggered. We don't know any of that. So we're giving this person who may be severely and and may have depression, and ultimatum he could just you know, just crumble under. That will make the performance even that much worse because there you go. But what if you definitely think they need a third party, what if you change it from ultimatum to like state of the union, like this is where I'm at. And if it doesn't she be coming

from I first of all, and what she desires. It shouldn't be really about I want you to do this so I can feel this particular way. It should be her living it and hopefully that inspires him enough. But if if it doesn't, then getting a third party to like be the reflection as well. I definitely think the third party needs to be involved. But I think she doesn't set ultimatums to him. I think she sets dates for herself. How long does she want to be in

this relationship? How long does you know she's clearly unsatisfied with what's going on. I think once she figures out the not I'm not talking about the sex that. I'm talking about the emotional side and the engagement side. But she can set when she's comfortable with herself. She should be setting those timelines of like, okay, maybe now or this date I should now I'm going to leave, or now I'm going to stay with it, or whatever you know. I mean, it's it's easier said than done. But she's

not even having the conversation. She's not even bringing it to him right, let alone in the right the right way, you know, the effective way. He doesn't he probably you're saying, we don't know any about We don't know anything about him, so we can only focus on her because she's the one that we're talking to. To meet your any last thoughts on this, we gotta go to break here shortly. Just one quick last thought is that I agree with all of this. I agree there's obviously a problem. I

agree that she needs to talk to him. They need to have that communication. I don't think you know the question. The thing that stuck in my mind is that when Ryan was talking about his ultimatum, he said the ultimatum was, can we get back to where we were in love? I don't, I'll be honest, this specific situation. I don't get the feeling that she would that they ever had that love. I don't don't think she has that to

get back to. I don't. What I heard from her was she got out of another relationship, she had her heartbroken, she met this guy, thinks and and they've got, they've stuck together this whole time. I don't know that she ever had that thing to get back to. So that's that's where I'm at with that. I don't know that she that she can even if she gave an ultimatum, she couldn't get back to. I think maybe she she went and got married to not get her heartbroken again. Wow,

we'll leave it there. It's gonna take a break peace, all right. So that was some heavy stuff. This episode has been pretty intense so far. That was our first call. That's somebody's life that called and trusted us with their life with a big decision there. So let's have a little more fun now we figured out for him though. So I gotta I got a question that's probably gonna provoke a little more laughter. What is men's biggest worry about sex? M men's biggest worry? What's the one thing

you worry about the most in the bedroom? Good question. I don't know if I can say, well, this isn't a word, this is what I want? Is that the next question? Please go ahead, buddy? What is it like I want to orgasm at the same time, Like to me, that's the ultimate thing. The timing of it whenever, even if it's a couple of seconds offer or five minutes offer, whatever that is, it's to me, it's it's wanting to have that couples like at the same time or five

minutes off is different. I'm just I'm just kind of kidding. Okay. So, so at the same time, like we're going, yeah, what what does that feel like? For you? What is what does that mean? What does it's not? What it means is it's it's we're doing something together, and it's not about me having an orgasm. It's about us having an orgasm, us being together in that moment and enjoying that feeling, whether the climax at the at the exact same time. And to me, that's the ultimate goal. Okay, So what

I got that? So what I forget the first question?

What's your biggest worry about sex? Like if you're if you know you you and your wife are going to have sex, or maybe when you were younger, when you were twenty or whatever, what was something you worried about going I mean, I think worrying would be kind of like how you're actually performing it, you know, how you're how you're doing it, making sure that you are turning on that person that you're with, whether you're a twenty or or now you know, and making sure that they're

having a good time. I think that's that's my biggest worry m Dmitri, my biggest worries that Rick cannot now I'm kidding. Um uh yeah, I agree. I mean I think I get I get a lot of my pleasure out of knowing that the person I'm with is feeling pleasure. So whether it be whatever part of it is, but I feel, I guess to Rick's point, you feel like you want to be able to to deliver for them what they want and that in turn will will feel good for me. But I feel like, listen, I'm gonna

drop a bomb on you guys here. I'm not a porn star, so I know, you know, people, there's a lot of something like like and everything. If someone has there, which which luckily my wife does not, which is probably

why she married me. But if someone has their their sights on like what like the craziness that people talk about like to some extent, like yeah, like I think people when they watch porn and stuff like that, I think they you know, I guess now, I've moved on from me, And what people might fear is that they feel like they gotta live up to the like you've gotta be crazy, you gotta be able to do all this stuff, and and it's like that's that's kind of

like I don't think I can. So if people are growing up watching that, then they're gonna be like, oh, I don't think I'm ever gonna have that. Isn't that becoming more prevalent now that porn is so easily accessible they think they have to do all these I feel like, under thirty even thirty five, your default sex education is

coming from porn. So then you have, you know, the whole um society of of men thinking that they need to give it in that way, and then you have a whole host of women who feel like they need to be deriving pleasure from that. So this huge distortion. It's like kind of like you know, trying to learn how to drive from watching Fast and Furious and you know we're not supposed to do that. But I'll say I've never, like, listen, I've never been totally into born.

Like if I walk in a room and you guys had porn on, I'm not going to clo cover my eyes and like turn it off. But that's never been like the thing for me. I'm much more into like, I mean, give me the last fifteen minutes of sixteen Candles where the where the nerd gets the hot girl that the guy makes a couple of jokes and like, to me, that's exciting. So it's like, yeah, that's yeah, I'm not anti porn. It can be. It can be.

I'm not anti porn. It can be really useful. It's just that that shouldn't be where what we're thinking that sex is because it's not. Do you ever advise clients to watch porn together? Um? No, I don't, actually because I like too visual and it takes people out of their bodies and I feel like when they're actually occupying their bodies and feeling all the sensations in their bodies, that's where the best, best sex kind of comes from.

So I usually if they're wanting like inspiration or to figure out like what they might want in sex, I'm more advised audio erotica, Yeah, because then you can kind of figure out I don't like this, or that's really funny, or this this is actually turning me on. Ryan what do you think men's biggest worry about sexes? I mean, speaking personally, mine is undoubtedly pleasuring my wife too much so that she's tired through the rest of the day and she had scheduled and it's just like it exhausts her.

So I'm I'm saying, like, okay, that was four, stopping at five. She'll be we'll be able to have dinner together. She won't pass out. Now, Honestly, I would say, I would say avoiding it being a true transactional experience, which is something we kind of spoke to with the caller and what's up. I call it Judy six. It's something but but Brooks, it's something that that Julianne spoke to

with respect to spontaneity. And you know, we we've all talked about we have schedules and lives and kids and not wanting it to be something that you schedule from this hour when the kids are down or or nobody's home. And you know, for me, there are a million things that my wife and I have to to navigate, which are like I was telling De Metro just a minute ago, it's okay, well, it can't be first thing in the morning because we we have to have our coffee, we

have to go to the bathroom. Get that out of the way. It's not going to be in bed before that has happened. But then after you've gone to the bathroom, it's like, well, now the right time. Now we gotta shower. Do we have time to shower? And then it's like, well, it's lunch time. So we just had a meal. I feel bloated, so it can't be after a meal. So you factor in the eating and the time to go to the bathroom, and the kids are awake, and you

have like a seven minute window. I only need a two minute window luckily, but like she doesn't offensive need longer than two minutes. But but but there are You know, it boils down to this very small window of the day that it works out conveniently for both of you, which of course takes all the spontaneity out of it. And you know, what are we doing here? It is the best sex? Only spontaneous sex? Is this just a myth? No? Truthfully, I think spontaneous sex is great. I have just as

good a time when it's when it's scheduled. Just like if the all those factors just described or controlled for and our son is down for his nap and everything's good. I'm like, this is good, Like we're happy. These are the realities. Lela. Well, let's ask you, let's from a from a woman's perspective. What do you believe that men's biggest worry is sexually? Um? Well, I wanted to comment on what everyone said because it's all geared around her pleasure.

And I really want women to get this because that's one of the biggest barriers for women communicating what they want is that they don't think they're going to get it first of all, and that they think that that equates to him getting less pleasure or it equates to

him not being happy with the sexual experience. So if if you hear what I heard, which was that men deeply desire your pleasure, then if you can, if you can be authentic enough in yourself to know what that is and to be experiencing that, then he's going to get more of what he wants, not less. Very Well said, I agree. Yeah, what about you, what's your biggest worry? I think it's pretty much in line with everybody else's. You know, um, I think you you as a partner,

you want to make sure that. Um, maybe it's a guy thing too, because you're competitive. Um, you're gonna do such a good job that they couldn't possibly be with somebody who would satisfy them as much as you as you do and so and so it has to be truly a full is this really holistic sort of experience and there should be such it should be so gratifying that nothing that basically should leave nothing on the table in my opinion. So that's that's just how, in my opinion,

how how it should go down. So um, but I feel that that you want to give so much that you feel like you can't be outdone, right, Um, and uh, I think that's the worry. Is it? Was it that great? Okay? And uh, that's the that's the goal, I think. So, I I understand that in my opinion, being married and caring about my wife her experience is a massive worry for me. I want like not a worry, but I

want for her completely, which is what you're saying. I want my wife to have and which is what you're saying. I want my wife to have the best experience ever that that she desires and craves and just me, you know so that I do agree, but I'm also going to like rock the boat here because none of you have said fire in the gun too early, or or just having a little pistol said that. For sure, there's dudes out here listening. Okay, you have to find a

small enough holster sometimes who is a comedian. The one comedian is like it might not be long, but it sure is thin. Can I just say one thing? My other biggest fear, which I just remembered, is that one of Gavin's songs will come on the radio. I've had that happen. I have a buddy. I have a buddy whose songs have come on when we're listening to music and it's it comes over the house. It works out. It's a great song. But it's kind of like, I can't do the music and sex thing. What oh, we

gotta dive into this. Are you serious? You don't like candles? I did this two nights ago. Let some candles in the room, set some atmosphere, put some light music on a princip video game changer. It's a game changer, buddy, it's a game changer. The music thing gets maybe kiss out because you hate all the other artists. You don't want your piste off the records are do you ever just put yourself on there? Just put your record on here, like sex to a game? Right? Uh so yeah, he

shoots he Oh no, let me see that. Hold on a second. You know, the distraction of it, because it's my world. It h if I hear music, I don't zone out when I listen to music. It it it pulls me. So it's interesting. I can't have it. So put a hockey game up. You don't, you can run those excuse me. I just gonna put someone hockey night in Canada. Here we go. Yeah, so that I can't do it because it messes with my own personal you know, we all have UM. Musicians talk about it. You have

an internal rhythm and UM like uh. Fundamentally speaking, I write songs in general what we call mid tempo, and so that's where I hear things. I hear things. It's specific um tempo in general like where I sit and I write music. I'll write songs that you'll find songs zero around certain tempos, right, and I'll go wow, for whatever reason, that's my that's my clock, you know, And that's an extension of of my essensuality right as a musician,

that's it's very much related. And um, so that's that's where I live in my when my intimacy role is it's the same same clock, you know. And so if I'm hearing music that doesn't suit my my clock, doesn't suit my natural rhythm, then it's going to interrupt what what is truly an extension of of of myself? Right?

What if it was your rhythm? Though I'm not gonna play my own records, Well, you don't want to play your own So there's something with the same as it beats per minuted or like how what's what's what if there was something with the same rhythm that aligned with you, it would still it wouldn't be me. It's so um so it's so directly related. You know, music is so sensual.

Um good music is um it's so it's so much a direct link between your week what I call a soul right and and and my and your your sensuality. Um that I can't interrupt that. If I interrupt that, then it completely throws me off. You know, God, I love hearing neck I talk about music. Hey, how impressent. The whole room is just like staring at you. Yeah, awesome. I love that was awesome. I just love listening to that, buddy.

That was powerful. I did want. I was thinking about this when we started the show, about the intimacy side. And I know Gavin is kind of our our you know, our little brother per se, right, he's not married, kids, all this kind of stuff. But my my point was, and I should have made it earlier, was that I think he is intimate with his music and with with what he was just describing, and I think that's that's

his intimacy. Um, as one of you're right, but um, I think truly, you know, just getting to know you more. And I think that's that's what we're you're talking about, you know, and that's that's where you are as an individual and a person. Um. You know, it's not all about sex and women and girls and whatever. You know, you're in love with your music and you're and that's

that's what it is. Yeah, that's where I spend my time with and I think a lot of times, I think I think that maybe a reason why the single thing doesn't freak me out as much, because I'm getting a lot of that sexual energy out in playing music. Um, you know, I don't have the same desires that I had when I was twenty two, you know. But I'm not you know, I'm not on my first tour. I'm not twenty six, you know, being a nut around the world,

you know. So you know, I got that stuff kind of out of my system and so I found uh, you know, I haven't been a new chapter of my life, you know, and so I'm still able to I still have that energy, that that sensuality, you know, and then that sexual energy, you know. But I'm not, um, I'm not in young lion mode, you know. And I think this is really key what you're saying around you creating intimacy with with your music, and that's what you have

intimacy with, you know, intimacy. It doesn't have to be relegated to touch your sex or anything like that. It can be things. And the more that we actually practice intimacy in life and with other things, than the more that we can bring that into our partnerships and into

the bedroom. So you know, um, that intimate, that connection and that awareness and that presence and that openness that you have when you're with music, that can then roll roll over to then you know, being a practice that you do with somebody else, you know, and bringing intimate

to her and going with her rhythm. Maybe that needs to We're getting close to the end of your guys, but I want that leads to a question I have for you, Leela, for our listeners just to wrap up, what are some maybe one, two, or three things that they can really do if they are struggling with intimacy and sex with a partner. Just to wrap this whole episode up, what are the main things that you could stress or stress for them? Where do they go? Do they go right to their partner to have a discussion.

What are the most important steps to wrap up and sum up everything we've talked about today? Yeah, the one that I just mentioned about the intimacy with yourself, I mean intimacy with the things that you with around you and prioritizing that kind of pleasure for yourself first is incredibly important. And I in any coaching session that I'm in, it's all about, um, getting in touch and with your own pleasure and your own intimacy and doing that for

yourself first. UM. I think that's very important to hear. Like that taught me something because I think a lot of people that probably come to you are looking for while my partner doesn't do X, Y or Z, and you're putting a mirror in front of them and say, well, let's go back to you. How are you showing up in that? So I wanted to just stress up for our listeners. That's that's powerful. What can I do for this first before it's just wanting from my partner exactly.

So for men usually it's you know, being more present and more having more awareness and bring that to the table. And for women who um, it's it's usually giving it to themselves first rather than seeking it from somebody else. And you know, in partnership, I think the whole piece that we're talking about with the caller around getting on the same team. You know, this is this shouldn't be oppositional. You know, this isn't a me versus you. If I get what I want, you're not going to get what

you want and vice versa. This is about like, how can we have the most amazing experience, how can we each be in pleasure, in immense pleasure, um and having a dial all around that. You know, sex doesn't have to be like this seamless kind of seamless flow. It's play. Sex is play, so play, get explorative and create these kind of explorative, experimental spaces where you're meeting each other for the first time, like it's like every time, like

it's the first time. Right, Wow, beautiful. Yeah, you're amazing. We've like I've I've learned so much. You've We've all, I think, speaking for all of us, learned so much. When you want to command you you're exceptional at what you do. For our listeners, where can they find you? How can they get in contact with you? Because I'm sure you're phone to me ringing off the hook, so you can contact me through my website. It's Loving Lela's about l I l A so loving lela dot com.

And I'm also on Instagram and I'm pretty semi active on there, but I usually get back to direct messages, so if you have any questions, and I like to do question and answers through my stories as well. So just, um,

there's not enough conversation around what we're experiencing. So if you're experiencing, it's likely someone else's too, So just creating more and more conversation to give ourselves permission around Yeah, well, what we want, what we crave, what we're hungry for, and and what's standing in the way of that amazing, Or you can reach out to us, so look a look up Lela where she just said. Or you can reach out to us men at I heeart Radio dot com and we'll connect you there as well. Lela. Thank

you so much. Thanks guys, thank you so much. You've been amazing. That's it for this episode. Take care of one another, love one another, and we'll see you guys back here next week. Hey, guys, it's Brooks and one last thing before you take off. We want to know your thoughts, feedback, insights, and questions for us on this show.

Send us an email at men at i heeart radio dot com and follow along with us on Instagram at how Men Think podcast and we'll see you back right here next week for the next episode.