Life After Loss

Can I just say that we missed you. You're out on this fancy singing and dance and two of the men um and you guys at home listening can't see it. But I'm wearing my Gavin de Gros shirt the fred you are a true story. It's true And in that picture on the shirt you're wearing, I'm looking at my toes and and the shirt I'm wearing. Yeah, this plan backfired on reference one of our Brooks Brooks likes to suck toes. So true story. This is what happened today.

I haven't seen you, and I don't know, maybe it's been six weeks too much since you've been out on And you sent us your fresh merch from your tour, which we all wore. We all rocked it. I saw y'all are great in it. Thanks thanks for rocking it. Um. And so I was like, I'm gonna support my brother today. He's coming back in the studio. I'm gonna support him.

I'm gonna wear this shirt and I'm gonna it's gonna post it on my Instagram and I'm gonna say it's where the shirt of your hero to work the boy except you come walking, you walk in and you've got a shirt, he says. Brooks likes to suck toes. Total backfire for me. Yeah, well you need to find better heroes. But how are you doing, buddy? How was the tour? Give us that? Give us how man? Everything was amazing, man, I had a great time. Uh you know, Bend and

crew all got along great. Everybody did their job, Fans showed up, they had a great time, you know. And it was something I was a little worried about. Every time you go on the road, you're always a little bit fearful of are people gonna remember that I exist in the world. Are your fans gonna remember you? And and my fans all showed up and it was an amazing time. Saw the country and had a ball. That's amazing.

Do you have one, um, best memory from the trip from the tour one like what city was just on fire? Or song? Man? I don't, I don't have one single best memory. I mean, my dad came out. Uh you know, he likes to take a bunk in the bus. So yeah, we lived together on the bus, me and my my, my pops, my best my best buddy, my best buddy I grew up with, came out to the show two nights ago in Syracuse. Um, you know, from my hometown.

So we had a great time too. So there are a lot of good, good moments on the road, you know what I mean. Most of it's for me. I'm like, I'm like, uh so kind of a hometown mentally sort of kind of guy, you know what I mean. I'm a hometown family guys. Sat like having my my pops around, like having my friends around, stuff like that. So what does it feel like being done to her? Are you relieved or you like to press like, oh god now?

And I don't know what to do off tour being Yeah, because you're done, though, I mean delicately put it sucks coming off tour. I love being on tour. I mean artists love it. They love it. I love it. I love it. I think it's because there's certain things that are just expected and some things that are unexpected that you're okay with, you know what I mean. You expect

to be in a different town every day. You don't expect um, you know, for certain things to happen while you're on the road, but you're kind of happy that they do because it just keeps things interesting, you know what I mean. And uh, it must be fun to have like thousands of beautiful women screaming at you too. Well. So I saw the videos lined up in the front row with their Gavin shirts on their their books likes to Suck Toes shirts, and the next that's the next

distribution plan happening out there on the road. Buddy, Well, welcome back. We're happy to have you back, and we've got the rest of the crew in here. We got all the we got the Dream Team reunited, we got Dmitri, we got Rick, and we got Ryan, who thankfully is still with us. Buddy, you had a bit of a tough go. You want to enlighten our listeners to what happened. I had an emergency appendeck to me my I woke up in the middle of the night. The worst pan

I've ever experienced. Drove myself to the er and I was in the er for fourteen hours before being brought up to the operating floor. I am convinced I was in the e R for fourteen hours because of our episode. Somehow it cot physician. The physician community is aware of me. There is the black list, and they put the smallest I V. They couldn't find a vein conveniently to put in the I V by the biggest veins you've ever seen.

Just gouging, gouging, couging. Then it's like, oh, you need some morphine, let me put it all in at once. I almost passed out. Literally four doctors came running and they thought they killed me, and I'm by myself and they're dying of slow death. Finally get the surgery and I was in there for three days. To ask you a question, is there anything? Okay? Perfect? Thank you? Next question, so I'll have to saying, so, is there a non

emergency version of an appendic tomy? Uh no, there's not. Okay, it sounds there's no like voluntary, like, oh you know what, I'm gonna take out my I'm not feeling like I want to have this anymore. So I don't even eat that many nuts. So your appendix burst. It was a microscopic perforation. For us in the medical community, that's the term we use. Put yourselves. Yes, it was close to bursting. How does that happen? That had to have been anxiety

and stress induced. It had to be. It's a good question if I think Amy would tell you, yes, it is like it's anxiety induced. The doctor I was going to say, in all his pain and misery, he managed to text me incessantly because his wife was with the baby and the baby on the way, so she couldn't really be bothered. So he's like, if I die, tell

the guys I love him, page for my funeral. She probably couldn't be bothered because she knows that her husband is high maintenance and was just like really drawing everything out. All I wanted were gifts from all of you. Are you sure just wasn't a beasting? And we'll never know. Hey, I don't know that. I don't know a lot of medical stuff. I don't know how big an appendix really is. But I would have thought because you had I would have thought you would have looked a little thinner after.

That's horrible. It's good to be back. They did not, but they So it's a laparoscopic surgery. There's two incisions on both sides of my abdomen, and then they pull the appendix out through the third incision, which is your belly button. So they pull the appendix out from your belly button, mounted on a little glass case at home. I do not the gave that option. No lint in

there any longer, all the incisions now, the fake apps already. Okay, Dmitri, I think we might need to do another episode on on this whole thing because that but that was one of my favorite episodes we did about with with your story about visiting the doctor, and and everyone on social media on Instagram has defended me. Let let the record stay. Everyone is behind me. Can I'll give it to you. I'll give it to you real quick. Because so he he had a little rough go in with a doctor.

He had like a little sniffle in his nose and and he was like ringing the alarm. This is an emergency. Doctor didn't call him back. He calls again, it gets worse something whatever. Anyway, the doctor doesn't call him back. The gist of it is the doctor doesn't call him back on his schedule, so he fakes his own death and he writes he changes emails as a Ryan has died, please send flowers, you know. And so then this this doctor panics and like goes into like a like a

trauma herself, cancels all her appointments for two days. She can't believe she let a patient die. It's all because of him. He wanted flowers. It's just flowers. He got an email from the from the entire health system, and I was told that this was not that long ago. How long this was like a year ago? Yeah, he's fully grown when he did this an adult, an adult correct to marry, by the way, and the entire health system that I could have died. And here I am

today to tell the story. To me for for being so brave to be here today to tell that story. Can't take seriously. Meanwhile, that got around the hospital when you end in for your surgery, and they ended up giving you, like a first year medical student, to do your to do your action your operation. Physicians. The physicians

don't particularly like me. And this happened again on the appendeck to me, and I'll tell you the quick story, which is in the e R. In the e R, I'm in there for ten hours and I'm like, am My wife got there and she was like, look, he's been in here ten hours. Are you not you've determined he needs a surgery. When are we getting him into surgery? Are you worried that it's going to completely burst? And the nurse said, well, he already died. The nurse said.

The nurse said, well, actually, you know other patients that I've had that have had their appendix bursts say that it actually relieves so much of the pressure and it feels better once it bursts, So it would be the worst thing in the world if it bursts. I'm sitting there on morphine, like, is this guy serious right now? So I had a follow up earlier this week with the surgeon. I said, look, this is not a reflection on you and the surgery you performed. I think you're

your class act. I love you, but let's let's revisit the e R. Because the guy told me this, and I don't have my medical degree, but there's something called sepsis which you are trying to avoid. And he acknowledged that I, while not having my medical degree, am smarter than was dyslexic, and he got somebody brought you a PEPSI. We're happy you made it through that that life you you were shark diving. I believe I was hope hopeful that when I got here you at least lost a

finger or maybe an arm. No, and I have my appendix, didn't lose that either. We need to wrap Ryan and bubble wrap. This guy is just like a walking disaster. I did go shark diving. They'll do his rad We went to Guadalupe Island with Andy cassa Grande, who is like the shark diving guru. Uh and go pro some of the Golden Big House. Yeah, he's just he's a stud man. This guy free dives with great white sharks. So we spent three days in the water. We were in cages, but he got out. What happened to him

that made him so suicidal? He just he just loves sharks man, just like, Yeah, he dives with them, just hanging out. Yeah. He and he's behind like almost all the content of Shark Week. So anybody that's seen Shark Week, him and his wife Emma are behind most of it. Um, he's been working with sharks for I think twenty two years, great whites. He dives all over the world with them, does a lot of awareness and protection and conservation for them.

And we're able to dive with him with great white sharks, really did with bull sharks. Yeah, he'll do. Do you name it? He looks at them like their friends, like a quick question. Does he chum the water when he's before he jumps in? And oh yeah, yeah, so he's attracting him and then he's lying there. I'm not lying to you. I'm not lying to you. It was gnarly. I think we saw because so they all have like not all of them, but there were fourteen different ones

that were tagged or marked. He has a sonar thing that goes down and different ones that swim within a kilometer paying a different thing or whatever. Anyway, Um, so I think we saw somewhere between twelve and fourteen separate ones. But we saw sharks every minute for three days. Does he have really bad teeth? And is that why the sharks don't mess with them? He has perfect all crooked and get in and sharp. It's such a one of us. It's such a misunderstanding of what great whites are like.

So what does he think? Does he say what attracts the sharks to devour you? Does he have an opinion on that? Uh, mistaken identity probably like they actually or curiosity. They might think you're a seal and mistake your identity. So what what is he attribute his survival in that environment too? Probably honestly, great question you'd have to ask him. I would bet that he's there. He just admits an energy of here. I'm here as a friend, a peaceful friend,

not an enemy. And also, some smarts no know what to look out for. No when a shark knowing their behavior, when a shark is looking for a meal, or when a shark is relactated. You know, I know when you walk in, if you're looking for a meal, or if you're looking glass. He's always looking for a But it was awesome, It was awesome. And Rick, you just got

an off gnarly adventure. You're in Alaska, right, Not as good as these stories though, But yeah, I was just in Alaska for ten days and we were going fishing and a little bit of hunting, not not too much hunting, but we were fishing for salmon and Halibut, and we're in the middle of nowhere and a kind of in a cabin with ten other people. And it was awesome, awesome, no internet, no cell phones, no nothing, just a lot of downtime, a lot of hanging out, a lot of

kind of self reflection. We were burning not lying about that cellphone thing, because I really wanted to text you, and I just kept seeing if you were online? Are you online? Are you online? Never? Ten days? Not one time? Everything, everything. I got a FaceTime. I got a FaceTime from By the way, what was the biggest salmon you caught? It's about twelve pounds pound silver salmon. Yeah, and our helibate

was about thirty five. I mean they're not huge because June is the big helibate season up there in Alaska, and we were in August and so, um, we're kind of going after the meat. But bald eagles we were, you know, we were out in the middle of nowhere pretty much and uh, we're burning stuff and shooting guns. You talk about like, how did you survive not having your cell phone for ten days? It's awesome just doing

all honesty. It takes about forty hours sort of like get it out of your pocket, get it out of your like, finally put it in your room and turn have it off and just kind of you're walking around wandering like where's my phone? And then you're like, oh, wait, what am I gonna do with that? So it takes a couple of days amy actually to get rid of it. But once you I mean, there's so much work we're doing. We're we're gassing the boats, we're cleaning things, we're moving

stuff around. And isn't there a moment where we're at there in the wilderness and you're thinking, Man, if something happens, I hope I can look it up on the Internet of what I need to do to save myself. And there's no reception out here. No, So we do have radios, so Coast Guard radios in our house and on the boat, so it's channel sixteen. So if we do you know, if there is an emergency or say someone does get attacked by bear or there's something that's really tragic going on,

we can we can call made it. Can you call the Coast Guard and be like, hey, guys, how do you build to fire without matches? I'm stuck right now. But it's not enough for you to send round version of what would that you go through that process? What would guys, I forgot my stuff and the soy sauce for our salmon sushimi. What can you imagine if on that races like I ain't some girl named Amy really names?

Do you have to clear something up here? Yeah? One guy that was up there, and mind you, he was from another part of the world, and um, we we take you know, it's fun buddies that we know. And and there was a little bit of a problem. There was a really high tide where we are. It's all title based and so there was a really high tide and one of the cars we hadn't parked it. We launched the boats. We hadn't parked the car high enough.

So by the time we got home, it's a really weady day and and all the waves were up in the car was pretty much halfway under water. So the one guy that whoever was in that boat at the time sent back to the cabin, which is probably like it's not very far from the from the water, you know, five yards. He's sprinting and he's not in Brooks like shape,

you know, let's just put it that way. He's in gab and shipped so many people to the house and there's two guys are and he's like he was like lastie, he could what boy trouble like the old milk, Like there's underwater. There's not here underwater, and so it just yeah, it was that classic Yeah, we're I'm light headed, right? Who got a park that car up there? He's never working at the ivy Again, it's classic Dmitri. What's up

with you, dude? We've been grinding away. You and I have been the two here work and holding the show down and me and Easton. Yeah, you know, so I feel like he deserves some of these guys. I didn't have time to go on tour. I would have I didn't Alaska. Yeah, I certainly didn't have time to get my appendix out. Actually, I thought Ryan and I had blocked away some nice time together and then he pulled

that stunt and so I was alone. So really, I've just been sitting here in the studio waiting for you guys whole time. I've had nothing to do. Buddy and wet the scotch in the corner. Guess what, we have a treat coming up because we are all going to Vegas. So we'll get you out. We'll put we'll put you front and center, and also you Gavin front and center. But Dmitri deserves a bay. But we are going to Vegas. You guys are my heart radio. What is it? I

Heart Radio Music Festival tickets available now, boom. So we're gonna go to Vegas. We're gonna enjoy ourselves. You're gonna have uh, we're gonna god a couple of podcasts from Vegas. And also I proposed this idea, go ahead, think you'll like this one. I propose that we set up Amy Amy delightfully got us all sweets at the Bellaggio, right, Amy, right, that's what. So we got sweets. I did not. I think we're all in one regular standard room queens anyway.

But I propose that we do a podcast from the pool at the log and can get an umbrella and we just we just get to speed date girls to set up you for a date. Terrible idea. Anybody walking by will be like, hey, do you want to sit down for thirty seconds a little speed date? And then I'll be I'll enter like, well, I'll get like three or four that we get to speed date and then we'll select our favorite and then we'll we'll see if it sounds like a good way to ruin lunch. Yeah,

this is still working itself out. But some way you're doing some massive speed date. And when we're in Vegas, Buddy, this is this is happening. This is cocktail hour. You just sit there and look pretty. We'll take your can I borrow your makeup kit, your guideline. Okay, so more of that. Two weeks we're in Vegas, which is gonna be awesome. We'll get into more stuff in this show. We're going to talk about love after loss, very sensitive topic. We're gonna get into it. After the break back from

break we are. We have a special guest in house. We want to talk about a I think, in culture, in society, a very sensitive topic. We want to talk about divorce and loss. We're going to talk about loss as well, and we're going to talk about life after loss and happiness after loss. So we have a very special guest. Let's welcome to the show. Mitch Messinger, thank

you and Dmitri. You were telling me earlier you have a connection you went to school with so Mitch, uh, how long did ago did you get married about five months ago. Five months ago he married man. Congratulations, congratulations brother and his his wife and I went to college together, and I'm from college at Emerson College in Boston. Yeah. And and I remember seeing on her Facebook post she said, you know, she announced that she met the most amazing

guy and she was so excited. And I remember I said her a message and I said, it's fantastic, like, I'm so excited for you, and it's just it's so funny that now now you're here because we never met before.

But your story. I read New York Times that an amazing UM article on on your story, your story and deb story and how you know things that had happened beforehand, um and and how you guys met and it's truly it's truly an amazing tale of finding love again after you know, having lost and also and the deb had been through a divorce. So so we'd love to hear I'm sure people listening back home or in your vehicle.

There's many of our community. We've got so many questions and emails from people listening about this question about life after loss and life after divorce and is their happiness? Is there a tale of happiness for them in their life. So Mitch will just open it up to you. We'd love to hear your story. We've heard it. But for the people listening at home that haven't, please bring us, bring us the goods, because it's your version. Give yeah somewhere any whatever you want to give less is more,

so I will kind of that. I think your story is incredibly powerful, So whatever elements of it you want to share, please do because we have many people in our community that I'm sure this is going to help to make a very, very long story short. I moved to Los Angeles about twenty six years ago, fresh out of college from Syracuse University and Upstate New York. I met the love of my life soon thereafter, she too had moved here from the East Coast to start at

law school. We dated for about two and a half years after uh a pretty good courtship of young kids in love here in Los Angeles since we were both East Coast kids, and got married soon thereafter. We had our child, Jillian about five years later, and then about a year and a half after the birth of our daughter Jillian, our world UH kind of collapsed and got the word that my wife, Michelle was diagnosed with stage one breast cancer. UM. We originally thought that we would

you know, nip it in the bud, as they say. UM. We were able to do everything we could to make sure that it didn't come back. But unfortunately, about two years later it had returned. And for the next six six and a half years she basically had um you know, kind of fought the battle, uh, pretty successfully with medication, constant doctor visits. But then the last year of her life, things got really awry, as we say, and unfortunately it's

spread all over her body. Uh. And we did everything again what we could to keep it at bay or turn the tide that you know, she would still live for a long time, as her doctor kept telling us. UM, but she, the ever pessimist, me the ever optimist, UH felt differently. Uh. And so unfortunately things got worse and worse and worse, and unfortunately she did pass away five years ago this past May. Our daughter Jillian was ten at the time. And you know, it wasn't wasn't for

the faint of heart, so to speak. Unfortunately. Uh, it's not something that they tell you, uh, you know, an emmanual that someday, you know, your spouse let alone your young spouse would die of a disease like that. Um. You know, we were pretty healthy, uh, you know again young and had a whole life ahead of us. Unfortunately that was not the case. And that's where the story you know, I guess began and ended with Michelle. Um. Obviously never ends with her. I still think of her

all the time, and my new wife deb knows that. Uh. And obviously she is always and will always be Jillian's mother, So that is you know, that doesn't change, um. But that being said, then a new chapter began soon after her passing, from the first year of mourning, trying to get a sense of it all, try to figure out, you know, what I needed to do now as a single father, not by choice as I like to call it, um and just living life like you know, everything was

normal when it really wasn't. Um. But luckily we had a great uh support group of family. Most family were not in l A. They were back east, but they you know, showered them or showered us with their love to all of us to make sure that we were supported. My parents actually sped up their retirement so to speak, and and I ended up rather than doing the back and forth thing between the East Coast and California, that they would move to California permanently just to be closer

to us. UM, but also our friends who are like family. We had so many friends that were really supportive of us, those you know, dark weeks and months after Michelle's passing, UM, and then about a year after she passed, I said

to myself, all right, I'm at a crossroads. Now do I continue this single father uh life, or do I see if that may be that there's love again And kind of brushed myself off in my head and physically is in my body as well, and decided that I would, you know, start seeing it might be out there now. I wasn't. I'm not a millennial. I'm not a young kid anymore. Unfortunately, even though I like to think I am just on the cusp of it. Thank you, Thank you,

especially as I'm turning a big milestone next year. Hard to believe. Um, yeah, thank you. Twenty thanks to you. And so, you know, I said to myself, you know, Michelle's never coming home. I know where she is. I always joked that an hundred years I'll be in the same place. Uh. But here I am, and I'm gonna need to find if I'm gonna find love again, I need to you know, take the boot by the straps, I guess is that the right phrase? Uh, and kind

of find love again. And so I wasn't going to do all of the you know again millennial thing of you know, either going to bars or going on j

date and uh, those type of things. I'm gonna talk to my friends and say, hey, do you know of any buddy that might be in your world that could be a good fit for me, That might be divorced, might be widowed, I don't really care, Just someone or maybe who was never married before, just you know, you know me and these were friends obviously that I know in a long time, not just new mutual friends, but people who knew me a long time, knew Michelle as well,

and Jillian. You know, if you think there's a good fit, then let's do it. So sure enough, you know, as Michelle is probably laughing me as I tell you the story right now, that you know, all the entas at my daughter's elementary school at the time probably were like, he's ready, and we're gonna We're gonna do what we can to set you know, set them up and so they went through their you know, virtual as well as

you know old fashioned rolodexes. You know, I'm sure most of us know what rolodexes are, but exactly not quite but you know, speaking yourself. And so basically, I, uh, you know, started getting calls and texts of you know, emails, uh saying that I have somebody you know in mind for you. Here's her number, Why don't you give her

a call? So I did that for a little while. Um. In the meantime, as some of you in this room know that, I'm a publicist at ABC, and I was at a talk show, uh with one of my actors who was promoting one of her new shows. And one of the guests that was on the talk show besides the actress, was a woman talking about relationships and relationships after death, and I thought this is interesting. So of

course everyone said, talk to Mitch, talk to Mitch. So uh not on the show, but privately we spoke and she said, you know, don't let anybody let you let don't let anybody tell you when you're ready to start dating again. And that also hit me like a ton of bricks, saying, you know what, I'm gonna take it. Actually on the reverse side, yes, no one can tell me when I can start dating, But at the same token, why not start now? Like again, I know where Michelle is.

I know we actually had conversations towards her before her passing to say, you know, I want you to find them again. And so that obviously something that also you know, stuck with me this whole time. And sure enough I started dating um and all the women that I dated actually weren't bad. There was not maybe a connection I had with deb when that relationship started, but everybody at least was very you know, normal, I guess, especially in

this town. I heard horror stories over the years. That's tough to do to find a group of people that are all normal. So yeah, again, maybe there was not a true love connection or like, oh there's something there, but at least, you know, no one was crazy or otherwise. And so then maybe a month or two after that, I get a call from an old friend, someone who I have known since I've been out here in l

A for you know, twenty plus years. He was also from back eastern New Jersey where I grew up, and said, you know, I have a I have someone that I think might be a good fit for you. And I said, tell me more, and he said, well, um, Glenn his best friend from growing up. His wife Sharon has a friend that she used to work with at the Family Channel, uh years ago, would you consider it? And here are all our particulars? And I said, again, sure, why not? I have nothing to lose. And so he's like, let

me talk to Sharon. I'll get back to you, uh in a couple of days, and we'll kind of go

from there. And so basically a couple of days went by, and I still have it, and I probably show you guys somewhere on my phone, but I have the email that he said saying, here all the particulars of this deb kaplan, Jacoby, would you be interested in here again all of her her information and the one century thing that he did say, and he's my age as well, was you know, check her on Facebook and see if you like, you know what you see, and if you do,

that's how you can connect, you know, probably connect with her, or I'll get her cell number. And you said, I'm still in my Space? Does she have a page there? What's my space? And so then I called her and that was uh two. That was like again about a year after Michelle's passing, and it took a little while to get our first date under you know, schedule, because of our schedules. And again, she has kids, I have

a kid. Um, you know, she had some other things that were going on in her life that she had to kind of figure out before we went on our first date. And we went on our first date in March of Uh. To make a very long story short, Um, I knew there was something there right away. I didn't know if we were going to get married, but I just knew that that it was very comfortable. As I keep telling dev all the time. And uh, by the next year, I said, you know what, I think this

is gonna be another thankfully permanent union. Uh, this is gonna be my this is my next chapter. Wow, that's amazing. Man. First, I want to I want to commend you. I want to commend you and acknowledge you for having the courage to come share that story. That is amazing. And I'm blown away. Um, I'm just blown away. How sincere you are. How and you can see the optimism in your face when you tell the story, even something as tragic as that, can I ask you how long you were married to Michelle,

we would have been married seventeen, almost seventeen years. Amazing, So I wanted together twenty one. We I mean, we had moved to l A pretty much the same time for different reasons. We met soon thereafter and we've been together ever since. So it was a long, good time. I want to I don't want to think long as bad I want. I just want to pay homage to Shell and to that to being married seventeen years together twenty one is amazing. I'm currently married just over two years.

I can't imagine finding out something that that my wife has something a cancer or an illness that could possibly be terminal. I cannot even begin to imagine what that must feel like. So I just want to applaud you for the courage to to tell us that story, share that story, and for our listeners, and also to do it with a smile on your face, in a way that you look back at your entire time with her with joy. That was a great that we had, and unfortunately it was cut way shorter than we both thought.

And and I think of our daughter, you know, who didn't have her. You know, I was only going to have memories of her mother from her you know, from ten years old and younger, which that's not fair either, but again, you know, I'm a very optimistic person by nature, so I just know that I had to do something to make it, you know, keep her memory alive, and to also know that, you know, I have to move forward.

I'm still young. Even though I like to say, you know earlier that big milestone is coming up, I'm still young. I will say. I I from a first hint point, I know your story in the sense of my brother went through a very similar thing. Um. He got married right after college with the love of his life. They were married for a long time and UM, she they had two small, two young girls, and she was pregnant

with twin boys, and she, uh, something happens. She suddenly within a day, UM passed away and he was left with the same type of situation, UM where he had to find his find you know, how to move on. And I think it's something when you have kids, you know, because it's in our nature to want to just give up at that point. But when you have a child, I think it's you know, something that keeps you going. And that's what kept him going. And I just want

to say. I'm not going to get into all that, but what I will say is he too, um, found love again and remarried and and I recognize your happiness from from the same happiness that he has. So I just want to say, like Brook said, I want to say thank you for you know, sharing the story and stuff, but I want to I want to congratulate you on having that that look and having that happiness and finding it again because I think it's important for you and

for your daughter. So thank you, Thank you. There's so much in there, There's so much value in there. I want to ask you one particular question. You had the conversation with the lady after the TV show. What was the lady's name? Do you remember that gave you the advice? Don't?

Actually she was like a family therapist. Basic, Okay, So that moment when she said to you that, um, what was what was the exact commentation, just that don't let anybody decide when you're ready to start dating it, because that was the whole topic of her being on this talk show. Again, not with me involved on the talk show, but just you know, privately it said, you know, just don't because you know, I Unfortunately, I have about four or five other guy friends, all in my age group

that had lost their wives in my community. Um, and so you know, they all started dating at different times. Some dated right away, you know, you could either say that's a good thing or a bad thing, and some people, you know, d waited a lot longer. So it's it's until you're in that situation, you really don't know what you're gonna do. So how long after your you're after Michelle's passing? Was that when you had this conversation just about a just shy of a year, just shy of

a year. So until that point you sort of had you'd been a father to Jillian, but you hadn't thought about dating again or didn't want. I think I did, but very superficially, just like you know, I'm young, I'm at that time, I was forty four, forty five years old. You know, I need have a whole lot of life to live ahead, or you know, I need to live my life and I would like it someone by my side like I was hoping originally was to be with Michelle.

But obviously we can't change the change the past. So how do you said that comment hits you immensely, So what switched within you? And I'm asking this because I'm sure a lot of our listeners. There's not a lot, but some of them have gone through this where they've loved and lost and maybe they're currently grieving. I'm sure everybody. I don't have experience on this, so guys don't take my advice on this, but um, I'm sure everybody grieves differently,

grieves a different extended period of time. I to say, it just like cancer, there's no one sure thing to you know, treat it the same thing. You know, everyone deals with it differently. And and for me, I just knew when the time was right that I would, you know, start dating again. Um hearing like I said what that therapist on that talk show it said to me about you know, not you know, letting anybody else make decisions for you again, I just turned it on its head.

Not because I think she was trying to say, like you can wait, like if you wait three years, four years, that's okay. But for me, it was just a weird feeling of turning it upside down, saying, you know, Michelle is not coming home. It's not like, you know, we got divorced, and she's at her parents house in New York, and I'm praying that she'll come home to me and Jillian again, I know where she is, and that's where

you know she'll be for eternity. Did you feel any pressure from your friends or your peer group or society in general about when that time was right to date or to start doing with you? With thinks? And also I had that same may shoe, like when we first you know, got engaged, when's the wedding and again first marriage also not just the recent wedding with deb when you're gonna have a kid, so it's everyone wants to rush you, you know, I think that's why life goes

so quickly. But that being said, no, actually everyone was pretty pretty understanding because again maybe the first year was like you know, because also you know, we in the Jewish faith, we you know, commemorate the year passing by, you know, unveiling the headstone of the deceased, So that hadn't even happened yet. So I feel like that's like the magic milestone marker literally that says, you know, now

it's been a year since the person has passed. How did Jillian feel, you said, she was about ten, she would have been eleven, but she would have been eleven. Yeah, how did she feel? When did you have a conversation like, hey, I'm ready to start dating again. We talked a little bit about it. Um. But also I did not introduce her even to deb when I kind of even knew that things were going well for at least like six months. It's in a relationship. At least did you tell her

about her? Um? I think a little bit. I think I I, you know, my memories face fuzzy these days sometimes, but um, I think I kind of maybe just very in general terms that you know, I always will love mom me. You know that this, you know, unfortunately the situation has been presented to us not by choice, and I need to, you know, maybe find somebody, you know,

to share my life with again like mom. And so she was very you know, I have a pretty amazing child are now children, but Chilian being my officially by blood, you know, it's pretty biology. Um, she's pretty amazing overall. So she doesn't surprise me that she was very accepting and understanding what I was going through. It's funny how the kids and that's in in situations like this, I

have for kids myself. It seems when when we think we have to do everything for them, it's actually when they kind of turn and and help take care of us as well. And it sounds like that's something that whether she knew it or not, she was kind of she was kind of doing with you. I mean, we we've I've always said also we've we've fed off each other, like you know, again, it's the most horrible thing that

anybody should deal with. And you know, no one in you know, in this room or anywhere else she have to deal with the loss of someone at a you know, a very young age, let alone, you know, from a disease that you think, you know, they've had a handle

on for a long time. That being said, you know, the fact that we were able to be positive about it and not let it paralyze us, because I think that's what it does to a lot of people, which you know, that's not good for you, that's not good physically, mentally, all the above. And so the fact that we were able to somehow positively see you know, and and you know, and Mommy would want us to you know, bond together

and see the world. Now the two of us, you know, without her being there, and so let's do the best we can with the situation. So so, Mitch, so how do you do that currently with Jillian and um Deb? Like, do you bring back some of those memories? Do you have certain you know, times during you know, the year that you talk about Michelle or how do you how do you relate that? I guess, I mean we we talk about Michelle. I mean I also said to a lot of my friends, anybody who's gonna be with me?

And again this even before I met Deb, that's gonna have to understand that Michelle was a big, like you said twenty one year, you know, in part of my life for so long that you know, I can't just erase her. You know, it's not like divorce where you know, you could probably say, yeah, you could might a one a race that person, that horrible person that I used to love and care for. But you know, and again, she's Jillian's mom. I'm still obviously very close with her parents,

her brother, his family. Why wouldn't you know, Why wouldn't I you know, want to make sure that you know, I bring her up, I would say, on a regular basis, But on a basis that is comfortable for all of us because you know, there are a lot of great memories that I have that I want to you know, either share with deb or remind Jillian remember we did this.

And that's a actually good segue because um, I'm also part of an organization called Family Lives On out of Philadelphia where they kind of take, um, uh what you call it. I guess I make a wish on its head also by giving families that have lost a parent into at a young age, uh, the wonderful tradition that a family had done when the family was quote unquote whole. And so they help keep a traditional alive even if

a mother or father has passed on. So for our case, um, we used to do a lot of trips to San Francisco. It was just we love the city and we'd go for you know, long weekends, go for the holidays. And so they help get us up to San Francisco once a year, uh, and we do a fun weekend just Jilliana myself and do things that we had done as

a family before. Whether it's eating at a certain restaurant, whether it's eating Garattelli chocolate, whether it's you know, going to Alcatraz, which is one of my favorite Jillian's favorite attractions in San Francisco, and so so that and and so Shena and Deb knows that that's something that Jillian I do. We honor Michelle. Most of my friends and family know. That's what we do every year, and we'll

do it until Jillian turns eighteen. Can you can you mention that family lives on Where can people in our community that are going through something of this find that, because I think that's amazing. I've never heard of that. But dot org basically and they have a great website and you know, they have families from mostly on the

East coast. We're trying to make a presence because they loved me so much they asked to be on the on the board of directors now, so but trying to make some more inroads in other parts of the country, pally.

And it's a great organization because you know, again, I've actually another father who you know, their their tradition was Disneyland every every you know, every year, and so the organization helps him and his two daughters, you know, go to Disneyland every year so that they can you know, keep that tradition alive even with her their mom, his wife, first wife, you know, uh, you know, not not around. Yeah, Well you share a little bit because I obviously know

your story. Well, you share a little bit about Michelle's parents because I find the way they are to be so incredible. Was there a time when you and the kids and Deb lived with them? Or am getting you're you're mixing other things. Actually, what's so amazing by our story, which I know we're what you're alluding to, so to speak, is that we are extremely close with all four families, um,

all four families word our at our wedding. UM. So that includes my parents, Deb's parents, uh, Deb's I guess first in laws laws, but first which is we're still very close with his whole side of the family. UM. And then obviously my first in laws, Michelle's parents and her brother and his whole family, my sister in law

and my two nephews. And so we actually lived with as I call it, father in law adjacent because it's again Deb's first father in law from her first marriage who lives here in l A. And they had us at their house the first two weeks after the Woolsey fire, which ravaged Los Angeles and Interura Counties, and we live in an area that was pretty hard hit. My street had ten homes before the fire. Now they're only three, and we were one of the lucky three. To speak.

That's to some of them, I mean to me listening, that sounds it's a story I haven't heard before like that kind of connection, and especially with in laws or actually in laws and whatever. But take all the labels away, it's people helping people. Really well again, I look at as again, Michelle's parents will always be like Michelle being Jillian's mom, will always be Jillian's grandparents, Jillian's and uncle,

her brother and my sister in law. Likewise, you know, despite the divorce of Deb and her ex husband, you know, we're really close with his family and there will always be the grandparents of my bonus children, isn't we don't we don't call X or step in our house. You know that they will basically, you know, always be Sarah and Josh my two bonus children's uh you know, grandparents there and uncle, you know, cousins whatever. So it's important

that that relationship continues. I have a quick question for you much so you mentioned towards the end before Um, Michelle passed that that you had a conversation with her where she gave you her blessing so to speak, that she wanted you to be happy. What what was that conversation? Like,

did she initiate it? Were you? Did you feel compelled to tell her no, I I I don't want to be with anyone but you, and out of fear, you know, Like on the one hand, she she's saying, I want this for you and and but do you feel a sense of guilt by saying, okay, I will heed your advice. I still remember, very vividly and without trying not to get emotional. We had it in our kitchen and our old house. Again, it was probably four or five months before she passed, So things were bad, but not really

bad just yet. So she was still you know, kind of normal, so to speak. UM. And she brought it up because I think she like she knew this was not going to end well. She always felt like, even even though with stage one all those years ago, that she knew that it would never you know, never uh you know, end well, even though we caught it early at the first the first time. UM. And so she you know, had that conversation. I never thought of saying, you know, uh, you know, I'll never be with anybody

but you. I said to her, You're going to be great. You know you're gonna fight this. She was a fighter, She was a New Yorker, she was a lawyer, like she had in every ounce in her body to you know, fight this as she had fought for all those years before. Um. So it was never you know, you know, I don't want to get remarried. It was more like, I'm not gonna get remarried because You're going to be here, you know, that's the thing. But I'm thrilled, you know, thrilled, I

guess that's the right word to use. But I'm very happy that we had that conversation. And I was just talking to another friend who knows my story that I've worked with for many years, and I said the same thing, like, God forbid anybody's in that situation, but you might want to have that conversation in the best of times, just because I think I still could have moved on, but

having that conversation it felt a lot better. I think I think when someone loves you deeply like she loved you, she also knew that it was important for her to free you. Yes, absolutely and that and for her to do that while she was still cognizant enough to have that conversation and to be emotionally there and not desperate, not in a desperate place to tell you things that you wouldn't necessarily believe in the desperate moment, but rather her tell you it in coming from a place of

of from a healthier place. You know, she was obviously a very smart woman. I like smart women in my life. But no, but it's true because she also she probably had a grand plan. She never divulged with me, but that last year she was even making sure that Julian and I did things just the two of us together, and she wanted to make sure that, you know, our new life would be it would be okay. And also if she if she you know, she she had that strength. And and let's not forget some people that are much

sicker than they seem to be. And a lot of people have great composure when they're ill and they're holding it in because they're trying not to show you how ill they are. So perhaps even in the kitchen at that time, she was much more ill than she was letting on. That's why she was having that conversation. She could feel things going wrong in her body. She was very you know exactly, and she was she was she was knowing, knowing these things that we couldn't we couldn't

see because they were masking them so well. You know a lot of times people are ill and they're masking them really quite well. When when my mother was ill, h with pancreatic cancer, and she she didn't make it um you know, she was she really masked it very well,

you know, as long as she could. Well, she doesn't want to you know, upset exactly, but she she she would have these conversations and my father told me they would have these conversations about you know, uh, you know when I go, there's no reason that you should be lonely. I don't want you to be lonely. A lot of people it's very hard and I get that. But at the same token, like I said earlier, they're not coming home, so you know, there it's not there's no chance of

it changing. If I could, you know, get a magic one and say poof, you're back, you know, it's back to the old way, I would that's do it in a new York minute, as we say, but obviously that's not possible. Absolutely, it's important. I mean, it's it's amazing that they take that upon themselves to free you in that moment. They really take that out of love, they free Absolutely, I've got a lot to think about because I had originally told my wife if anything happened to me,

under no circumstances, am I to be replaced? Could not be replaced. There's only one Dmitri brother. I want to thank you for sharing that. I want to get more into uh, progressing to now dating again with damp and how that the emotions of things you went through when that started. But first we gotta take a quick break. But will you stick around with budget? We got these new two's back from break and we have Mitch Messinger with us, who has just told an exceptional story. Your

life is amazing has been. I am just absolutely blown away receiving your thoughts and comments and your story. Uh, and looking around the room here all the guys were looking at each other in the eyes like, Wow, this is powerful, this conversation that's going on. So you loved and lost married for seventeen years together with twenty one one with Michelle. You have Jillian, she's ten years old.

When Michelle passes away, it takes you about a year and then you have a conversation that sort of kick starts you into Okay, I think I might be ready to start dating again. I have a lot of life ahead of me and I want to live that happily. You've had a conversation with Michelle about this possibly coming in your life. UM, take us through that process now

when you're ready to start dating. So you had a couple of dates and then your friend Glenn was at Glenn no Ira, but Glenn was his best friend and you get shot out to them. Also, I was connected through a friend with my wife, So I know what it's like to just owe that man everything for connecting me with the love of my life. Uh, Teddy sears Teddy shout out to you. Um, but what was it like? Take me through your process, um, when you're like, Okay, I'm going to go on a date with deb and

then what does it start? What goes through your body and soul when you start to feel that there might be another romantic connection with a different soul than Michelle. It's hard to put into words. I just feel like, you know, you just knew, like there's just something came over me that again, just felt very comfortable. Again, didn't know for sure that you know, we'd have a future together, but just that first dinner at sushi, Uh, was just

like wow, like I could be myself. I didn't have to and I'm not a type of person who either likes to show off or be someone who I'm not. But in the same token, I could just talk about anything and you know, and she seemed to like what I had to say. And that have to, you know again, show off to someone who I just met five minutes ago. Were you conflicted? Were you like, yes, Like what was there?

An internal struggle? Was an internal struggle in that, oh, I have to now kind of open myself up to somebody else of things that only Michelle might have known about me. Uh, nothing too salacious, but you know, but still yeah, but you know, it's just something that I was like, Oh, we have to kind of go through those motions again, and you know, will she even care that I say something that I like or dislike or something that I you know, happen at work or something

happened with my parents or whatever. It's just stuff that was very comfortable obviously being with Michelle for twenty one years. Now I'm gonna have to do that all over again. Are you kidding me? You know? I was like, how did I deserve this? But again brushed myself off, you know, physically and mentally, and just said, got to do it now. I try to be, you know, mindful of what I was talking about, especially that first date. I don't want to make it all about Michelle because that wouldn't go

very well. So I had to be mindful of that, uh conversation, But the same token, I did what I had to do to show who I was right off the bat, and I think I did pretty well. Question for you, You've touched on it, You've mentioned it a couple of times, and on this show we always try and give our listeners tangible things to apply to positively impact their life. And you've said, brush myself off mentally

and physically. Can you expand on that with any specifics for anybody listening that's maybe going through Just No, you need to move forward, you know, it's just the the action of moving forward. Yes, you had a horrible thing happened to you. You know, you can't imagine your life without X person in my case Michelle, but you need to to move on. You need not forget, but you

need to move on. And brushing yourself off as like being I would say dirty because that connotates a negative connotation, but you know, just kind of just be able to know that I need to find love again and I need to do everything I can to be in a positive space as opposed to a negative space. Mitch, I think Brooks meant when with the physical question, he wanted to know do you do box jumps because he's looking for a few What was your work that's on that

frantic you know? But and and even just having I just put popped in my head. I just also remember one of my other very close friends and I still also have it in my phone a call he left or more voicemail message of knowing he knew that I was going on my first date, not with deb but this was when I went on my very very first date after Michelle, and I still have it on my phone. UM, and he kind of gave me a pep talk is saying, you know we loved Michelle. You love Michelle. I love Michelle.

You know you need to you know you can do this, basically giving me the you know, the you know, the let's do this mantra. Uh. That's even though you know obviously it would be very hard for me. It sounds like you have such a great support system from family through friends, and I think I think that's pretty great because I think a lot of us might think something like that. But the fact that your buddy called and

left you that voicemail, I think that's pretty cool. And I think that's it's nice that you're surrounded by those types of people because I think a lot of us may think nice things, oh, you know, my buddy is doing this, But when you have people, I think it's something we can all keep in mind. When you have people near you that that supports you like that and and outwardly do it, I think it goes a long way.

And I think you obviously can attest to that. Yeah, well, I feel like, you know, I've been very good to a lot of people, and you know I got it in return. You know, I'm a good person at heart, um, and so thankfully it was repaid to me in time of need. Basically, so things start going well with deb You're you feel some sort of intrigue and connection on a greater level than any of the previous states you've been on. Um take us through the pace if you

if you don't mind sharing, but like does it? Did it all the details? But that's a different show together to this is how often were you working at the most what was sort of the tempo of the relationship where you hesitant to progress romantically and physically? Did you take it slow? Where you where you know, like this is a new relationship where you right in and and but with with with some you know, I would say reservations.

That's not the right word to use, but that seemed negative, to just take take take your time, you know, be all in, but take your time and deb understood. You know. That was another, thankfully, a thing that I think helped

us because I didn't bring up the story earlier. But her mother in law, our first mother in law, not my mom, had actually passed away from cancer years ago, and so she was so close with her, and I think she understood seeing what her father in law had gone through, what I was had gone through and maybe would continue to go through for those first you know, A couple of years after Michelle passed away, so that I think helped her understand, you know, what I was

going through. And if not that, I like put the brakes on, Oh we shouldn't date right now, or let's you know, I'll call you in a month. And I never did any of that because obviously there was definitely interest and I was like, oh this is again something good. Um. It was just just you know, just let me just let me beat to the you know, the drum or the pace that I was okay with you, which wasn't

that slow or that fast. It was just kind of maybe a little bit slower than a normal courtship, you know, because again I had this story behind me. We I think we just uh so you know much. We've found out a few weeks ago that Brooks is into sucking toes, so he's trying to get at at what is it day three that you But let's just move on, Brooks. This is a weird thing of yours. Let's move on. Okay. I feel like I feel like there's a boxing mask going on here. Like every once in a while Ryan

just comes out swinging it. Brooke. He's just mad that I have one more appendix than he has. Um, So I I listening to you speak there. I once had a friend, UH tell me that he praised for me. This is actually when my career ended, my hockey career ended. That he said he praised for me that I lift my anchor and let my boat go with the current. And I thought it was so profound. He's like, I pray for you that you just give up control and you lift your anchor and you go with the current

with where life is supposed to take you. Was that sort of your mindset in this It sounds when you said that it resonated with me that that was I don't know where this is going. I don't know the temple. I kind of don't know what I'm doing, but I know that i'm supposed to. I'm gravitating towards this relationship, but I'm just moving at the flow that feels comfortable. That's very well said. Yeah, absolutely, because again I didn't

know what the future would bring. Even say it didn't work out with deb and I would have to find somebody else, you know, to date again, or you know, date somebody new. So however it goes, it will go. You know, at what point did you know? At what point were you like, yes, I mean this is my personally about a year a year, about a year once again knew the kids. You know, we again we waited for all the kids to meet either me, her kids or Jillian meet my, meet Deb. Um. And so that

was six seven months into the relationship. And then you know, a few more months and just making sure that you know, maybe all the teaser crossed and the eyes are dotted, so to speak. Um, And then you know, then it was like, yeah, I think this is something again, something good, and I think it's gonna be a permit thing. And did that meeting with the with the kids, did that go well from the start or yeah, actually it did. We Actually we had a little buffer because we had

Deb's first in laws with us. You said, she used to work for ABC Family or when's this movie come? Was an ABC family back then? Just the Family channel back that's okay. Still they can still do the movie or they could. Yeah that this is fantastic. Yeah no, but yeah, so you know, with with her father in law and now his new wife because again as I mentioned her father, her mother in law had passed away

years ago. Um, that you know, it was buffer in that if it didn't go well with the kids, then the kids, least her kids would have their grandparents there and likewise, if you know, or likewise, Jillian, I was there, so to speak, even though obviously there was nobody else in our side of the family there, and then if it went well, then all the better. And that was a great rate way to cement even my relationship or

Jilian's relationship with her uh first in laws. Did you ever have to fight the father in law over who gets to sleep on the couch? Okay, I just want to We had plenty of events in our house. Damn, he's already on my couch. I love the questions. You

know you're on my couch. I have a good question. Um, with all the family support that you have, and it sounds fantastic, and even the Cohen laws or whatever you want to call and the adjacent in laws, did you ever others seek any additional UM, therapy, advice, counsel whatever, you know, I mean, outside of that, even especially for your daughter. Yeah, you know, and again we just I just talked about this with a friend of mine who asked me the same question. I hadn't seen in a while.

Luckily we didn't. I mean, it was always in the back of my mind. It was always something that I knew. Thankfully I have the resources to do, but at the same token, I didn't feel like I needed it, even though my parents gave me a little bit of an intervention those first few months after Michelle passed away at dinner, saying, you know, you should really consider this, and I said,

but I don't feel like I need to. If I feel like I need to, I'm not you know, ashamed or too you know, not too uh scared to to seek help, because I had done that years ago when the earthquake here in l A hit after I first moved to l A in n So I'm not afraid of that. But I felt like I didn't need it, and likewise to stay for Jillian, she was thankfully very

you know, in a good space so to speak. You know, she had her family, you know me, she had her grandparents, herunds and uncle's cousins, all of our friends who were like family. She you know, is has a lot of friends at school. She's an athlete, she has her so you know, had her softball team at that time. So she was able to you know, use other resources as almost therapy, as opposed to going to a traditional therapist,

and I felt the same way. For me, I have, thankfully a lot of friends, and you know, they could you know, I guess I have to just having having people help you navigate through those tough times. And I still talked to to Jillian every once in a while, you know, do you need you know, do you want to talk to somebody? And you really it's no, I'm okay,

but dad, I'll let you know if I am. Yeah, And maybe that will they change in a few years or you know, you know, some people have said, you know, Jillian might not really process this all until she's in her twenties, you know, right, but right, you know, but right now, thankfully she's in a really good space. She's an excellent student, an athlete. And you know, it was two years away from considering college, you know, or two years from her senior year of high school. So are

you talking about colleges? Yeah, that's great. So how long into dating, Debb, did you get engaged? Uh? So? Our first date was March uh And I remember that because again it was in that article in the New York Times. I knew here, if you learn a lot from this guy. Guy Again, I've been hard on you. I just missed it.

It's okay, haven't you? So yeah, so so March. So about let's see three years, because we got engaged March of so, just shy of three, and then married almost a little over a year after that March of this this year, so four years from dating that first first those on the anniversary of your first date. We did it chance. You know, you're same month, same month, same month, And actually that's why we also got married in March. We we liked the number three. Really, deb likes the

number three more than I do. Um, but I also appreciate the number three a lot um, And so we made sure that our first you know, if our first date was in March, then our engagement will be March, and our wedding will be in right. And how long you've been married now five months and three days something

like that. Uh, your story is incredible. Man. You're a man of grace and poison, composure and optimism, and you're just a guiding light for It's been impressive for myself to hear and for certainly our community, uh, for anybody going through what I want to ask you two things. First, where can people find you? Can people reach out to you. Do you engage with people going through a similar thing? Um, do you have can people find you on social media?

Or or do you not want to share that? No, I mean if people want to reach out, I feel like maybe reach out to you guys can come through me because given my line of work, I mean, I guess you could probably find out where I work because if you just google it, so it's not too difficult. Man that I heart radio dot com. You can reach

out to us and then we can connect you with Mitch. Uh. And then lastly, I'd love to give just open up to you to give anybody, Uh, just an open mic to to you too, say to people listening to them, have maybe loved and lost or I just want you to have a whatever you want to share with people based on your experience, a lasting memory or lasting thought

that you think can really positively help the community. Just don't let uh, you know, a horrible tragedy no matter what it is, UH, paralyze you and know that you know they there's a good chance that you will find love again and just find the positivity uh in it all being an optimist and uh, you know, I think good things will happen to you eventually and you know

it might take some time. Luckily for me it happened pretty quickly, but you know it will happen, and and think that on a regular basis, it will definitely help you in the long run. Amazing, man, amazing what I what I I just met you as we did this podcast. But what I take from you is that I believe you put so much good out into the world that then goodness greatness I tried to return to you probably tenfold. Um. So thank you so much for coming on, Mitch, your courage,

for sharing your story. Thank you very much. You are a hero man. It's it's it's been a blessing having you in here. Thank you, thank you. We'll be back from break. This is how men think. And I'm Brooks and I just want to say that was powerful stuff from Mitch. That was man. It's it's you know what. I think you said it best when you told him he was an inspiration to see because, like I mentioned earlier, I do have a firsthand connection with something like that.

And to see people, you know, be able to pick up and move on with their life, I think that's got to be the most difficult thing and it was. It was really nice to hear his story and see how he's rebounded from that tragedy. Yeah, and turned and turned it into a positive. I mean, you heard him say he's an optimist, so in eternal optimists. But I believe in in the course of a life, in anybody's life, there's three to four, like real defining moments in your life,

and look for him, loss was one of them. And that's a tragedy I wouldn't wish on anybody. But how you respond to these certain moments in your life is going to dictate the quality of the rest of your life. And I mean he could have went down a totally different path. I'm sure some people do, maybe turn to some sort of substance abuse or depression or blame or anger or something, but he turned that into a positive found another love is the happiest way. He walked in

here with a huge smile, incredibly happy guy. What an inspirational story. And that's and what I hope from this, I mean is that people listening people to think or in a similar situation or anything and feel like I'm not going to find love. I'm not going to It can happen, man, even from the darkest moments. Clearly we've seen that you can find love again, you can find that that partner or that support that you need in life. And I think the important thing is to hear things

like this and know that that's Mitch would happened. Mitch can happen to anybody, and I think you've got to keep that in mind. Yeah, just wow, I just want to I'm blown away. Sometimes we have amazing people come in here that just absolutely blow us away and make me just realize how grateful I am to be on this podcast. So we also have a question here from a listener on a very similar topic. On the same topic. This is from Chelsea, and she wants to know about

dating after a family loss. So she said, my sister passed away from breast cancer in April. I've found that while I would like to keep first date's light and fun, somehow it comes up and it's a total downer. She was a huge part of my life, so I feel like memories come up and I talk about her. So when how do I bring this up on dates without ruining it? It's a great question. That is a great question.

I think that's a it's obviously a tough situation because she's trying to put on a game face for whoever that person is sitting across the table. But I mean, listen, you're in a you're in a tough spot. She'll see you you feel a certain way, and I think this is my opinion, I think you need to just kind of navigate that, like, don't don't try and be something for somebody else right now, Be something, Be what you

need for yourself. And if someone will be sitting across that table or wherever it is you are on that date, and they'll understand, and they'll you know, and they'll talk to you about it, and they'll know that you're that you're hurting, or that you've you're actually fine, ding to feel good in talking about memories of your sister. Yeah, I'm thinking about this. And if if I'm Chelsea, right, so I'm on a first date, I'm Chelsea. What do you do on first dates? Usually you'll ask a person

like do you have any siblings? Right? That that's a very common question on a first date. So she's now got to navigate that question almost on every first date. And you what do you do? Do you talk about?

I don't know if she has any other siblings alive or do you mention also the one that's passed way, I don't see a downside of mentioning that you had a sister that that passed away that you were super close with, if you do so in a positive light, Like Mitch just sat here and talked about Michelle with a smile on his face the entire time, which kept us smiling, kept the mood up. So if if Chelsea were to talk about her sister, had my sister passed

away last year or best cancer? But she was awesome, guy, I wish you could have had a chance to meet her. She was a light of my day kind of thing. I think that then airs that topic, but it keeps the mood light. That's that's a that's a great point. And the last thing you want to do when you're on a date is be something that you're not, So don't don't do don't try and be something for that

other person. I think you're absolutely right remember your sister in happy times and speak about it that way, and I think that's the way to go. Agree. Wow, that was an awesome our conversation. That was a topic that I had never given any mindset to I've been very fortunate where I haven't lost anybody tragically or drastically. My family is healthy, and I've never given any thought to what life after loss might be. So I learned a

lot in this one. This was incredible for sure. And it's like, you know, when you see what you're gonna be talking about for for an hour. It isn't like we just said, even about Chelsea Stuay, it's not the most uplifting thing to think about talking. But when you get in and you and you have conversations like this, man, it can really be inspirational. Yeah. So I hope anybody out there that's loved and lost got some value from

from today. Um, you can reach out to us if you want to get in touch with Mitch, but just know that there's a lot of life ahead you. There's many more blessings coming in your life if you look at life as a place of opportunity. Uh. And as Mitch said, you get back in the game. So thank you guys for listening. We appreciate you all. Until next time, take care of one another, love one another, and we'll see you back here next week for another episode of

How Men Think. Hey, guys, it's Brooks and one last thing before we let you go. If you like today's episode, we would love to get a five star review from you on iTunes and if you could possibly share it with a friend, that would be amazing as well. We always look forward to your questions, comments, or insights, so you can send us an email at men at I heart radio dot com and also follow along with us on Instagram at how Men Think Podcast.