Left Behind

so many people to thank for this honor. Brooks Who would you like to start with? I was just kidding. I don't really have a lot of people, so we did his three dollars and thirty three cents. Yeah you do, buddy, So I'm in on that. Gavin, you have due to your lateness, you have forfeited your share of today's show, and Rick and Dmitri, you guys get to pick it up. I'd rather have his steak and eggs that he's gonna think. He's a smart one. He's downstairs eating and we're recording

a podcast. But I'm super excited to today's podcast. We have a very special guest here with us today that we'll get to in a second. But today's podcast is about something that I don't think we go into enough. It's a very hot topic amongst our listeners. It's something we get reached out to, probably as much as anything

to discuss. And today we want to go into the discussion of men's mental health depression, UH, suicide prevention, all the things that men go through that are very rarely discussed and are sort of taboo in society and culture, and men actually do not feel empowered or courageous enough to step up and share with people close to them. So that's the discussion today. It's gonna be a heavy,

really deep, important conversation. UH. And Rick, we have one of your friends here who has an amazing story that she's I want to applaud her. Um, thank you. We have Kasher here with us who has an amazing story that that is filled with courage and she's going to share it to be a vessel of service to our community, to everybody listening at home. But Rick, I'll let you t up Kate here. Thank you Kate for coming in, you know, having me reaching out earlier. And it's been

a long time since we've seen each other. And Kate and I grew up together in the mean streets in Newport, and I'm glad you both made it out. It was tough, it was tough, but we have been childhood friends since since kindergarten. Really, you know, yeah, so every class, every grade, every you know, you're a little bit more intelligent than I am. But um, it's been great to reconnect, you know, and thank you for reaching out to me, you know,

since we started doing this podcast. And the topic today is that you're willing to share with us IS and coming on IS is very important, and so I think it's it's important that you, um, you know, I can share that with us. So thank you. Thank you for having me and being open to it. So the you are an avid listener of men, think I am. Yes, I love having listeners of the show on the show. That's the way anybody out there listening, be a listener if you're um. But so we want to dive into

as much as possible. I want to be sensitive because even for us, this is a this is a big discussion, and knowing your story, having some background on your story, it's even hard in our position to ask these kinds of questions. I don't in any way want to offend you, but I want to serve our community and people that are maybe going through this in their lives as much as possible. So I'm an open buck. You can ask

me anything you should. My defense mechanism is sarcasm, So if I throw out something, it's probably cause I'm starting to sweat or something mine is too. Um So, Kate, can you give us a little background? We want you to share your personal story about the conversation of men's mental health, depression, mental health issues, and an ultimately suicide and suicide prevention. You believe this topic is rarely discussed and it's sort of your mission to bring light to it.

Can you share a little bit of your person story? Of course? So, um what, I am a survivor of suicide loss. That's sort of how we dub ourselves when we've lost someone to suicide, because it is really something that you do, in fact survive. It's a very difficult, different kind of death to um deal with. I was twenty eight years old when my husband took his life. Uh he was We were living in Colorado at the time.

I was actually visiting my parents in Colorado, and he'd sort of gone silent for a few days, and I had a really bad gut feeling that something was going on and called a mutual friend and said, you know, take the high to Key and will you go check on him. And I got the phone call from the Sheriff's department about thirty minutes later, and he had uh utilized carbon monoxide and helium, which a lot of people

don't realize that helium can be fatal. He'd clearly researched kind of the most peaceful ways to go and the easiest ways to do it that wouldn't be messy for anyone to have to clean up. And that was on May eighteen, UM that he that he died. They didn't find his body until the twenty I believe that he died the last time we spoke, which was on the eighteenth, and we had had a very difficult conversation. I think, like most people dealing with mental health and suicide ideation,

it was a perfect storm. It was. He had been diagnosed by polar He was a sober alcoholic but had dealt with addiction. UM, he had a slew of business issues that were going on, and some legal problems that were affecting us financially, and I think he just got really scared, and I think the pain was just too much too to move on. And I think in his own way, he felt like he was really doing me a solid by leaving free, setting me free, thinking that

all of those issues would disappear. Um. Obviously they don't. They sort of just start when that happens. But I think, you know, in terms of people asking if it was a surprise, yes and no. I mean I don't think you ever really think that a loved one will kill themselves. But to say that there weren't signs would be completely lying, because there were numerous signs throughout our relationship. Can I

can I ask this? Um, so you would just you just told us everything that was kind of going on in his life that probably caused Did he talk about that stuff or it was just stuff that you realized later or or noticed yourself, and then piece together that it had been so much weighing so much on him for the first several years of our relationship. He was very quiet, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, you know,

be a man, deal with it. And he hadn't yet been diagnosed with bipolar at that time, and he struggled with a lot of childhood trauma, which I think is very common in men who deal with depression anxiety issues. There's always some sort of background with that um but he didn't talk about a lot of it until he got sober, and he'd been sober for about a year and a half when he took his life. And I do think that with the gift of sobriety came really having to deal with all of the things that he'd

shoved down for so many years. And I think that is also so many people that we lose to suicide, it's a surprise because we feel like, well, gosh, they were doing so well. I just saw them. They seemed

like they were doing so much better. And we've learned I've learned through the research that I've done since two thousand two, when this became such a big part of my life, that when you're really struggling in that place of depression, or we're really struggling with that place of ideation, you often don't have the energy and the resolve to kind of do what you feel like you need to

do to end your life. A lot of people the suicide comes on the upswing, they're starting to get clarity, they're starting to get kind of an a feeling of yeah, this is getting better, but I still remember how bad it was and I don't want to go back to that place. And so, you know, in terms of risk, I don't think just getting someone help and um feeling like oh now they're on medication, that doesn't necessarily take

the risk away. Can I ask you one other question of what you touched on first when you started talking, are do you know of in relation to men or women that commit suicide due to mental health? Is there usually a connection between somebody that's bipolar, somebody that's substance abuse or high stress and anxiety from career? Are those

usually connected to that? Or they are? So it was almost a perfect perfect storm, and they often say that it's a perfect coming together of it can be health issues, physical health issues, mental health issues, you know, untreated mental health issues. There have been statistics that say n of all suicides have a mental health component to UM diagnosed or undiagnosed UM and I tend to believe that's true. I mean, there's a broad spectrum of what mental health

issues can be. Can be anxiety it can be depression, it can be schizophrenia, it can be bipolar. Um, it can be addiction, it can be job stress, relationships, relationship stress. UM. You know, Greg and I were not in the greatest place when he died. We were dealing with a lot, and we were still newlyweds, so it was just a lot to be dealing with. And the last conversation we had, and it's the voice that's kind of on a play

all my life, I had said to him. I said, you know, Greg, I love you and I have stuck with you through all of this and we are going to get through this. But I need you to make a choice. And the choice that I was talking about was he didn't like taking his medication. He was a very creative guy, web designer, did a lot of graphic design, and he felt like the medication dulled his creativity. And what I meant by make a choice was I want you to take your med and I want you to

commit to your recovery. And he, obviously, in his place in his brain, took it as you need to make a choice to live or die, and that's what he did. He made that for him. He made that decision that night wow. Could I I just want to commend you already, Kate,

for just being here and sharing that already. That is I can't think of something more deep and sensitive and vulnerable and real and emotional than that story, and you just sharing that, being in this room with us, sharing that for our listeners and for us to learn and grow from already. I just want to commend you and say thank you, thank you, thank you. Have you before prior and Dmitri touched on us a little bit, but prior to um, your husband committing suicide? Had he mentioned suicide,

had he tried before? Had he he had had an attempt ten years before, okay, And he even at the time had sort of said, well, it was more of a you know, a mistake of mixing you know, drugs and alcohol. I didn't really mean to do it. And I think a lot of times we don't necessarily know if a suicide is actually a suicide. It could just be an addict finally taking that dose it's too much,

or drinking too much. Um. But he had, you know, he was doing the things that you would think someone with a mental health condition would need to do, which is seeing a therapist. And he was when he was sober, he was going to meetings, and he was getting support from a sponsor UM. But again, I sometimes think I truly believe in suicide prevention, and what I when I

talk about suicide prevention. I know we can save lives, but I also do know that there are just some people who the struggle is going to be so great for them throughout their life that I do think there are people that are harder to help. And that's a hard thing to say when you're talking about suicide prevention, because I want people to feel hopeful, but I also

feel like for some people it is really difficult. And I I have talked to so many attempts survivors over the last decade, and every single one of them that I've talked to has said I didn't want to die. I wanted the pain to end. It's it's not so much. I mean, death, unfortunately is the lasting effect and what happens. But it's really just I don't want to stare down that dark tunnel anymore. I just I don't want to feel this way anymore. I don't want to feel like

I'm a burden. I don't want to feel like I don't have a purpose, UM, and I do think that talking saves lives, which is why when I started listening to your podcast, and I very tentatively, you know, send a message to Rick and just said, hey, do you think you guys might want to talk about this sometime because we are losing so many men. I mean, I just feel like every day in the news you're seeing something else of a suicide of someone you know that's died, young, old, high, celebrity,

you know, unknown, whatever it is. And these are all people that are in an intense amount of pain and what can we do to help that? And I think it's what is it two veterans a day, yes, commit suicide? Yes, So suicide is the tenth leading cause of death in the United States. UM. In two thousand, seventeen, thousand and seventy three Americans died by suicide one point four million attempted. Men die three and a half times more often than women die, and white males account for six of those deaths.

So I've I've read it. I had a friend who actually was doing some stuff in this space and UM shared a thought that they're now starting to link men's inability to share their emotions with greater rate and suicide

and greater rate in crime. I mean, I bet. I think anytime you keep something inside, you play out scenarios in your head, and you start speaking for other people, and then you feel like you feel like you're maybe you're the only one that's feeling this, and so then you keep it even further inside, and I think it just fessors and it starts boiling up. Right, gavre our good buddy Gavin Degras has made it into the studio here, can see you guys. Good morning. Um, heavy stuff it is, yeah,

it's but it's necessary. Um, Kate, can I ask you a question? I mean, we have a long list of questions here. I have a quick question I want to ask Kate. Are there besides the not obvious signs of anxiety and bipolarism and stuff, are there other signs that are that are you don't see that that are out there like that you may have missed or they act in a certain way, or they're Yeah. I mean, I think some of the common ones are withdrawing from activities.

You know, if you've got a guy that's always shown up for your softball league, but all of a sudden doesn't start showing up and doesn't really have a good reason why he's not showing up, or someone's giving away items that they really care about or selling things. Um, those are kind of the the ones you always see. But I really there's this misnomer that if you ask someone directly, hey, I'm worried about you, are you considering suicide?

Like is that something you're thinking about? People think that that is going to put the idea in someone's head. They don't want to raise it. You're going to give them. You're going to give them the idea. And the reality is that we have shown over and over again that it's actually a helpful thing because it allows permission for someone to say I'm hurting, I'm really hurting, and I'm so glad you asked me that, and how can you

walk me through this? I mean, that makes sense. I can't imagine that anybody would that would be able to do that, would not have thought of it, and then you'd plant it in their head. They're like, oh my gosh, that's a great you know, like that's what I need. Like, I think you're right, it's it's way better to you know, approach that and and risk them being offended that they you thought that than not. Well. I always say would you rather have a mad friend or would you rather

have a dead friend? And I would always take a friend who's mad at me over a friend whose funeral I have to go to. So when we say, for ourselves or any of our listeners out there, if they have a friend like this, somebody that that is lost to despair, that we're really concerned about their something just energetically feels off about this person. Um, what can we do other than just saying that, um? Or are there any things that you didn't do that you're like, I

wish I would have done this for my husband? Like is there anything that we can offer our community if they have somebody in mind that they want to help? I think being there and being there in a way that's that's solid, not just sending a text like, hey, do you need anything, because the problem is when you're really in that low place, hey, you don't know what you need and be you don't have the willpower to

really ask for it. Um. So I think it's really showing up and just even sort of being that annoying person if you need to be that person where you're showing up in person, where you're inviting them to do things, you know, and even if they say no, you keep following up. If you ask the difficult question they say, yeah, I'm really struggling, you hook them up with a crisis line. There's the crisis call line which is eight seven three even um. And if you're ever concerned about someone, you

can call that line. That line is not just if you're actively suicidal. If you are concerned about someone, you can call that line to get resources. Like okay, so resources, I was gonna say, So, what happens when you call that line? Like do they when you call? Um, there's train counselors and they if you are suicidal, they assess the risk, risk situation UM, and they will talk you through, you know, until you're either a feeling that they feel like they can let you off the phone because you're

no longer. They will sometimes you know, UM trying if there's someone like with a firearm, they try to really work through that in a safe way. UM. And if you're just calling for someone, they will give you, you know, organizations that you can contact and make sure you're also getting the support that you need in dealing with that. If you don't want to talk to someone. You can text someone. There's a text line that's seven and you just text talk to seven four one seven four one.

Teenagers really per for that mode for obvious reasons, because they're so addicted to their phones. Um, you know, and there's people have great things to say about the lines, and some people have horrible things to say about the lines. You know. The reality is our entire country needs a mental health overhaul. You know. It's a lot of people are afraid to call the line because they don't want to be put on a which is a mandatory hold

in a psych word. And I understand those fears. But if you really do feel that that someone is in danger of harming themselves, um, you really do need to talk them to at least a mental health professional and e er something. And again, they might be mad at you, but I would rather have someone be mad at me and stop talking to me for a couple of weeks, then you know, having to contact family members and say

that they're no longer here. I know. I actually know a few people that have taken their own lives, um, and it's seems the majority of them it was at a time where there was change coming and I think, you know, sometimes people are excited that there was one in the final week of high school, there was one in the final week of college, and and then there

was another. But I think that some people get excited for change, and I think some people are terrified of it, and I think they're feeling lonely, and I think they're feeling like everyone's gonna leave without me or whatever life is gonna go and I'm not. And so it's interesting that I think it's something to keep in mind that when when there's a transition like that or there's things it's maybe exciting for everybody, but you kind of got to keep your eye out for people that that you know.

And I'm not saying there was something we could have done or was it I just didn't see it, But you know that there's that loneliness factor and when people think they're going to be alone and they just they just go even further inside their own head. And it's like, that's a tough thing to to be excited for something.

But I think we've got to be aware of of people that are, you know, afraid of life moving on without them, definitely, And I think for as wonderful as social media is I get to stay connected to friends that I don't get to see very often. Like Rick Um, it can be really hard for people that do struggle with mental illness because again it's the highlight reel notion. You know, everybody's posting the best things of their day. Very few people are really posting real things, and I

only on post depressing stuff. So follow me in my car before I watch. But I think especially with with teenagers, yes, you know that that's one of the risk factors. With middle aged men, it's it's that pressure of I haven't achieved everything that I wanted to achieve, and I you know, or I can't pay for college, or I can't you know, it's the pressure. So much of it is either the financial pressure or like you said, those those transitions in life that are difficult for some people. I mean, not

everybody has great family support. Not everybody has a really cool group of friends. Not everyone has guys they can enter with, you know, But truth be told, do you guys really talk deeply with each other? I mean, that's

why we wanted to start of the show. Actually, when you leave and and nobody else is around, were always like, no, that's what we wanted to start the show about is because I don't believe I spent my whole life in locker rooms, and I don't believe men do share their emotions in their their feelings enough and in in my life, they're more likely to share deodorant. Yeah, he played hockey. And one of the episodes that I that sticks out in my mind is when you guys asked each other,

like when the last time you cried was? And it was some some of you had a hard time really kind of coming to terms with, like when was that? And what was I feeling when that happened? Or And I just think, you know, so much of it is that men are raised to, you know, to suck it up and be a man and and you know, do manly things. And I think I've become This has obviously been a passion project of mine since I lost my husband.

I'm remarried now, I have two sons, and this is very important to me now because I want my sons to grow up knowing that they can talk to me about anything, that if they're scared, they can come to me. Um. I don't want them to feel like they have to bottle things up. I mean, we are seeing suicide in children as young as eight. I mean that is nuts. O, Kate, Can I ask you how old are your boys are? Eight? How? How and at what age did you bring this up

to them? There? Are they aware that you were previously married. The interesting thing is they've only just known for the last several months. It's always been in the back of my head, like, oh, we gotta tell them, we gotta what are we going to do? Because I write about it so often and you know they're using computers at school. I'm like, oh, man, if they google me their stuff, that's going to come up that there's going to be really surprised spy. And so I finally it's I had

wanted to have a full sit down. My husband, UM, is an attorney, and was away at trial for three weeks UM, and I was doing one of my groups I facilitate I co facilitate Survivors Groups, which is an eight week program for people who have lost ones to suicide to kind of help them through that. And it was our last group. And the last group is really important because you need closure because so many people didn't

have closure with the one that they lost. And my babysitter canceled, and I panicked because I thought, oh gosh, what am I going to do? And I called the director of the program and I said, hey, there's extra rooms in the building. Can I just bring the boys. I'll bring like electronic babysitters. I'll put the TV on, I'll do what they You know, they know it's important. And for whatever reason, I think because Daddy had been

gone for three weeks already and they were upset. My one son had a full fledged meltdown about why why do we have to go? Why are these meetings so important to you? Why do you have to always help these people? And so I sat down and I said, you know what, guys, because mommy had a really really heavy loss when she was younger, and I'm trying to help people go through what I went through. And they said what? And I told them, and the again, it's humor.

I think kids can handle a lot. But the funniest thing of the whole thing, so I said, you know, I was married. I was married to a man. His brain was really sick. He died. I didn't go into full details about anything, but my one son looked at me and he said, so you're telling me that if Greg didn't die, I would be stuck in the baby depot, like with no parents, just out there floating around waiting for someone to pick me up. And I was like, I guess, okay, that's exactly what I'm that's if that's

what we're talking about now, that's exactly right. And I did. I packed him up. They went, They were fine, but they know and have known for a long time that this is really important to me. How did you bring it up to your now husband and how long into seeing each other. The interesting thing is that it's amazing how the world works. Um. I was reproductive law attorney for many years, so infertility was my specialty. I helped

people have kids. And one of the agencies that I worked for, I became very friendly with one of the case coordinators and she knew that I had lost my husband to suicide and had just moved back to California to kind of restart my life. And her brother died by suicide. And she called me and she said, you're the only person I know that's been through this, and

what do we do? And it turns out I started, you know, talking to her about what it was, you know, what it was, and we became closer through that experience. And she had a brother, another brother, her other older brother who she said, I just would love for you to meet my brother. And her brother is now my husband. So he has lost he has lost family members to suicide. And it's the other reason why I want my children to feel safe with their mental health and to understand

that this notion of physical health mental health. To me, health is health. Mental health affects physical, physical effects mental it's all one thing. If you're letting one thing slide, it's all going to slide at some point. And I want my kids to know because the reality is we've got some stuff in our family history. You know, I've got alcoholic I'm Scottish and Irish. I mean, we've got boozers on my side. We've got alcoholism. Um, he has suicide on his There's several people in his family that

have died by suicide. And you know, some of it was sort of explained, some of it wasn't. And you know, I want my kids. They're at risk. I mean, they have shown that there is a biological component to mental health issues, and men who have children later in life, they've also shown have a higher risk of having a schizophrenic or bipolar child, And it used to never be that men. You know, women kind of got this bad end of the stick, like, oh, your eggs are old,

you're going to have kids with birth defects. And now they're showing that men who have kids later in life also have some risks for other things being passed on. Do you know an age number on that? Because I'm thirty six right now, I don't have kids, but want to have kids, do you know us specific sort of generally, and just to let you know, do not panic. It's not like a huge person of my kids. It's they say, men over forty. Yeah, what's what's the best way to

approach this conversation with kids? Do you talk about that at all? I mean, sadly there are more groups now for children because we are losing so many parents and things and friends to suicide. But I think brain health is just one of the best ways to sort of approach it. That just the same way we take care of our hearts, the same way we take care of our you know, we have to take care of our brains.

And what does that mean? That means you know, eating well, exercising and talking about our feelings, not holding things in. And you know, I've always been pretty open with everything, but I mean, I had a really rough of high school was not the greatest for me. And the reason I was asking because I coach high school water Poland. So we have started a new program at our school where we're just with our team, where we're starting to

engage these other aspects of their lives. That's amazing. Instead of just being a coach and running practice and everything. It's like we're going to talk to the police department about safety, and we're going to parties and what happens, and totally we bring in more of it, like a you know, health through the school, but it's it's a health person. So we're talking about our feelings and how does that work? And you cann't go see somebody besides

coming to your coach or your parents or whatever. So I just want to see the other ways. And yeah, and I think too with with family. You know, the hardest thing is, you know, so many kids have things going on that they just don't want to talk about and you can kind of see it in pinpoint it, but you don't know exactly what it is, and no one wants to get involved, and no one wants to have to you know, one wants to talk to their parents. Yeah,

you know exactly. So having those other outlets I think is really right, having outlets, having and I think there's always I feel like there's always one parent. It's funny. I could never really talk to my mom. I felt like about certain things, but like all of you guys always came to talk to my mom, Like never you lost your virginity or did anything like you were those details. I lost my virginity somebody else. It was someone else, and you probably know who. Rick was just bragging. He

was on everybody. I remember last glorious. I just remember coming home and be like what because my mom would say, we're having a private conversation. Just go upstairs for a while. It's like okay. But I didn't feel like I could talk to my mom necessarily neither. And I feel like that's also in kind of like the generation to hopefully this generation of kids is yes in us. You know, having a platform to share these ideas and share these

concerns is well. And I think as much as higher profile men can come forward, you know, it was huge when Michael Phelps came forward to talk about these depression and anxiety and how he helped dealt with that, and I think a lot of we were finally okay with that. I think we have, you know, a lot of football players that are talking about the head injuries and how that's affected their lives and talking about em early retirement

and what that's done to them. Um So I think the more we can talk, you know, I think a lot of men Robin Williams, Anthony Bourdain, I mean when the news first came out, we didn't know a lot. Now we know certain things that Robin Williams was dealing with, But like Anthony Bourdain, I think so many people just looked at him as like this just lover of life and food and all the and then to all of a sudden have him gone. I think a lot of people, men included, took a step back and said, oh boy,

what do I okay? How am I going to deal with this? And what does this mean to me? And you know, in Newport, all over the world gets to do it for someone else is saying to go these amazing blazes. It's so easy to look at that and think, but he's got it all. He's got nothing worried about exact people, and that's looking at the specs on paper. It's such a fallacy, and I think that's what we

have to remember, that this is equal opportunity. It happens to the rich, it happens to the poor, it happens to the healthy, it happens to those with families those without families, and we need to just open up the conversation and make it be okay. It's okay to talk, you know, it's okay not to be okay. There's a great cafe in Chicago called Sip of Hope and they have trained mental health baristas and you get to go

in there and have a coffee and talk. And their motto is it's okay not to be okay, because we live in a society where everything has to be and everything's got to be perfect. Now with social media it's even more right. But it's okay not to be okay. It's okay to be scared that you're not gonna be able to provide for your family, or if you're losing

a job or whatever it is. I think, you know, not to get all religious on me, but I think that that's sort of uh fundamentally, that was probably more the purpose of church than we that we pay attention now to and modern society as people are not necessarily showing up at churches or temples, and it's become less of a religious Western civilization than we've had in the past.

People aren't necessarily showing up to a place of worship where they're told to look into their souls and think about their their day to day lives and their relationships way that they used to on a Sunday or a Saturday at least once a week in their community before social version of forced socialization. We've drifted away from that

modern culture. Now we're talking about this in sort of this other version of this other setting, and we're creating these other settings that essentially are in some senses not necessarily religious, but are serving a similar purpose of looking into your soul, looking into your happiness, applying these certain versions of are we healthy, are we not healthy? How do we fix the things that are wrong in our lives?

And it's ironic, but um but that essentially it's making me see what the purpose of some of these social groups were, these religious, uh sort of formats. It's amazing when I'm sitting here thinking about in my life, Dimitri, you touched on it. You had people that you know or knew that have committed suicide. Off the top of my head, I've thought of two. Um. One was our team doctor that looked after my health for years, one

of the happiest guys I knew. He was as responsible for my health as anybody I knew and saw him after every single game, and all of a sudden found out he had committed suicide. And I just didn't know. I was so. I was like, he seemed like the happiest guy ever, and I felt so bad. I was like, I wish I could have helped. I wish I would have, but how I just I just didn't see it. As you said, Dmitri, like sometimes you just don't see it.

You think somebody has it all together. There was another guy I skated with, played in the NHL professional hockey player, made millions of dollars, committed suicide. Um So it's I bet in everybody listening they have somebody in their circle that he struggles with mental health or has committed suicide. It's that prominent I think in society today. And then also I want to share one of my best friends

in the entire world. I've known him my entire life. Um. We grew up very right across the street from each other, so I've known him for thirty six years. Um. Tyrrell Lamentine is his name. One of the funniest people I've ever met in the world. And he's been on an amazing journey. And it's just started sharing his journey with mental health. And he's done two articles on LinkedIn that

I want to share. It's uh if you are listening and want to read these, thy Lamentine on LinkedIn and his first article was mental health and my career in the oil and gas and he talks about his issues, talks about how when he thought he made this much money, he'd be he'd be happier, and he'd be and he talks about his issues, and then he talks about how once he laid his weapons down and opened up and shared his vulnerability, people that he looked up to, bosses,

people way up in the in the chain reached out to him and said, I'm struggling. Thank you so much, can you help me? This is wow. I'm so glad you shared this. Like so, I encourage anybody in our community to to have the courage. And that's what I always challenge him with him, like if if it doesn't exist around where we live, you have to create it.

And he started that conversation. And so if you want to read his articles, he has mental Health in my Career in Oil and Gas on LinkedIn and he also did a follow up called mental Health Tip The Things I wished I'd known in the beginning, So you can will share these in the show notes. But these are two amazing articles. And I love Tyrrell's mission. And it's amazing when you open up for anybody out there struggling. If you open up about and that's what this show is.

Open up about your struggles, our insecurities, things that we are having a problem or issue within our life. There is a listening and compassionate ear and somebody willing to lie like people will line up to help you, you know. And so Tyrelle, I love your mission. Brother, He's a brother to me. I love his mission. I want to share that and go check out his articles on mental health. Um, have you guys experienced, Gavin and Rick, have you guys

experienced anything like this in your life? You know, anybody I have. Yeah, I've known I've known more than one person who's who's committed two side yeah and uh, and you know they're there. I'm thinking of two right now. They couldn't have been more opposite types of people, you know. One of them was very, very from like an orthodox background, and one was you know, ah, sort of like backwoods you know, uh, carpenter. And they're totally two different type

some people. But one of them had a substance abuse problem and one didn't, you know, one didn't have seemed to have any problems, you know, and was one of those people who, you know, if I was if I was walking home from from town, like with my bag, you know, after like ball, after practice or something like that, and the bus would drop you off in town, you have to walk that last that last mile or so, if they ever saw you on the on the road walking, let me give you a ride, you know, and I think,

hey happened, you know, I'll give you. I'd be like, no, no no, I don't want to convince it. No, please, let me have to give you a ride, you know. And so you didn't see those things coming. I think it's crazy. I think that's it. I think depression doesn't, and mental health doesn't attack one type of person. No one's immune to it. So I mean, it's just as you're saying, they were completely opposite people, totally two different

types of people. And it's not necessarily a money thing, and it's not necessarily a substance abuse thing, but it could be certain people. It's that's part of what's you know,

an obstacle for them. It's just so unbelievable. It's such the human mind is so so complex, and your emotion, the range of emotions every every single person is capable of traveling throughout the course of one single day is so vast, you know, so so you can never really you never know what to expect, but it is it is good to know that there's people you can go to,

or at least people who aren't necessarily even professionals. You can always pick up the phone and call buddy or or if you sense that someone's having a hard time, called and say, hey, man, what are you doing? You're right, no, no, I'm coming by. I got coffee. Yeah, you know what I mean, like something some interaction, and sometimes it's good to be a little bit of a nudge if you're dealing with somebody who's really super bummed out. You know I've been bummed out before and had a buddy. Did

you show up? Like yo, man, what's up? Got your beer? Man? Let's uh, let's go for a walk. You know we're I'm like, no, man, I'm working. I'm working now, and they get out of the house. Bro, you can't sit in the house for three days in a row working, you know what I mean? Sometimes I act, I act bumbed down in case someone bring the beer, um and you're like, oh man, what I actually needed to get

out of the house. So for our for our listeners, Kate that want to get in touch with you because you do so much work in the space and thank you for your story. Again, we need to wrap here, but I want to um ask where can our listeners find you? Should they want to reach out to you. Yeah, you can find me on Instagram and Facebook all under kate lyon Osher that's my full name, and then I have a blog kate lyon Osher dot com. Okay, lion lion l y o n y o n okay, So

kate lyon Osher spell it wrong? You know, it's like lion, It's like lion estates from that, I know we need to wrap, but I just wanted to say first, vulnerability is a superpower and that sounds so cheesy, but it really is. If you can open yourself up, people will come to you because they will connect with you. And also, just to end, check on the people that are always smiling, that are always joking, that always seem to have it put together, because those are the ones that are oftentimes

struggling the most. I just want to make sure she's glaring in all of the straight up dimitri yet. Thank you Kate for coming on. Thank you so much for having me. It's been amazing. Thank you so much, and for everybody listening. We'll put all of these resources in the show notes. Um, we'll let you know all of the areas you can reach out. There are so many resources. Please do not feel like you're alone. Call your mom, your dad. I'm telling you, people will line up to

help you if you're struggling. And if you have somebody in your life that you are just even energetically feeling weird about. Please, as Gav said, bring him a coffee or beer something, pull him aside, say hey, I just want to talk with you. This's just wrap if you're good, you're good great. I just want you to know I care about you, I love you, UM, and I just want to be here if there's anything you to share. So thank you everybody that listen to Thank you. This

was an amazing episode. I feel like we have to do a follow up to this. I think this is such I think there's still so much more to unpack in this UM and reach out to us with your questions or comments, anything. Anybody is certainly struggling, please reach out with us and we will do our best to help you. So until next week, take care of one another, love one another, awesome, and we'll see you back here.