Good Sport

a professional athlete. We have a retired I don't I don't even want to say that because it's not my spot to say it, but a former uh National Football League player NFL player played to the Buffalo Bills, Jackson's Bille Jaguars and my Skins, my Washington Redskins. He's a husband, he's a father. We have Michael Cosson in with us. Michael, welcome to the show. Brother, Thank you, thank you, Brooks appreciate it. Man. Dude, did I see your last last name? Right?

You did? You did? And that's that's my wife's biggest gripe about being married with me. Really is my last name because legally her last name is Corson and no one can pronounce it over phone. Everyone thinks when you say s, they say F like, oh, coffin, got it got We're like, no, okay, whatever, oh cause my last name gets butchered all the time. My last name is like although it looks like late and so I'm always like,

I just want to say people's names right. So, rather I appreciate you for being on the show, Um, I want to dig into your journey because the reason I like, I always loved the journey of an athlete because I was one, but like your journey in reading your bio and seeing your transition from sport to what you're doing now is is just aligns with me. So, Um, you were a professional football player, which goes to you do that is a freaking beast of a sport that is

a hard, hard sport. Um, And now you've come out of the sport as I have, and I want you to share with our listeners to then maybe I haven't listened to your podcast yet, but what the transition has been like for you coming out of the sport, moving in transitioning to trying to find a new passion. For sure, it's one of those things that you know as an athlete you can kind of relate to when you're in it, when you're in your sport. It does feel like it's you're going to be in it for your life, Like

you can't really foresee you not doing it. You know inevitably you have to stop, but you just that's not a reality for you. It's just for athletes. We get stuck in our bubble, in our mindset because it consumes you so much. So when you come out of that bubble and out of that pink cloud of of reality of you know, being an athlete and going back into reality,

it's it is, though, what now? Like you can prepare all you want And I did that too when I was, you know, playing the NFL Externships every season, and I try to set myself up, but then life happens. I meet my wife, I've moved to a different state. All my kind of connections were back east, so things are just different, and you you roll with those obstacles. So it was just you know, I guess I say to your listeners, imagine not doing the thing you've done your

entire life and then just starting all over. It's like, what does that look like? So I think that's so important because I think a lot of people are going through that. I don't think it's just something that professional athletes go through. And so as a listener of this podcast, it's gonna be Michael and I sharing our stories in relation to hockey and in relation to football. But it can be just a midlife pivot. It can be maybe COVID has interrupted your business or your career and maybe

now you're looking for a pivot. So in this in this episode, we're going to get into possible pivots or transitions in career, lots of purpose, shake ups, um, things that are outside of your control that maybe redirect you on a new path. And we're also going to dive into some listener questions about why men like sports so much? So who better to answer that than you, buddy? Uh, but what have you found being the biggest challenge um for you personally in in finding something post sports? What

has been the biggest challenge for you? Has it been letting go of sports or has it been finding something else that you're passionate about. It's it hasn't been letting go of sports, because I'm sure you can relate. It's like the first couple of seasons after you retire, you don't want to be around it. You don't really want

to talk about it. You can't watch it. I don't even think about that right Why it's too close to home still because you see all these guys that you either played beside, played against, and you're like, this guy is still playing and you just you miss. And not that you're judging that person for not being good enough to still play, but you just miss being out there. You know, you ask any of us, nine percent of us are gonna say, what do we miss the most?

The locker room, the camaraderie, the guys, that environment. And so it's just when I would watch it, I would start to think of those things, and think about that brotherhood and and think about my connection with my teammates and everything, and so I couldn't watch it the first couple of years. Now five years removed, I'm to the point where I can watch it as a fan again. I enjoy it um But it's the biggest struggle for me has been so letting go of the game was

was fine. It's it really is finding that purpose, that thing that gets you up in the morning. And again, most professional people in general, but especially athletes, are days are scheduled from top to bottom, and so when you go when you have that lifestyle for so long and then it just ceases to exist. It's like, wait, I'm used to someone telling me what my day is gonna look like, or at least in the offseason, I know I'm scheduled with trainers, I'm scheduled doing their things I

need to do. Now it's like, uh, what you know? Trying I'm like lost, I'm like what do I do? I don't have to do this, I don't have to do that. So that's been the biggest struggle for me is on a day to day basis, just trying to find a routine. Mine has been. That's interesting, mine has been.

I bet a lot of people listening can assimilate with that because they're their routines have been disrupted with COVID right, all of a sudden, you at home, all of a sudd now you gotta be a parent and like a teacher and do your job, and your gym is closed and your church is closed, and like jeez, you used to travel, but oh you can't see family now. Like um, a lot of routines have been disrupted. My biggest struggle struggle has been finding something that I'm equally as passionate

about to actually two struggles. One I missed the Uber competition. I miss lining up with and playing against the best in the world, and that measuring stick. I missed that so much so I missed the Uber competition. Um. And then the other thing I miss is just something that I am so consumed by and and driven to accomplish and proud of and just fascinated with, the pursuit of mastery. I missed the pursuit of mastery because as an athlete,

that's what you are. You're pursuing the mastery of your craft, excellence within yourself to be excellent at this craft. And I haven't shown up that way in other things that I have done. Um, since I have lost not yeah, even the way I say it lost hockey since my career says it has been over. So UM. I try and be a better podcast host. I try and study podcast host, I try and get better at conversations. UM. But I'll even admit it's not to the level that I was as an athlete. That was a suit every

single day for every decision you made. And so part of my heart breaks the fact that I am not that committed like I was as an athlete to the podcast or other little endeavors that I do. My heart just breaks a little bit for that. Well, think about this too, and this is you know, I know we have a question today about like why men love sports so much. My answer to that, but also to what you're saying, is what else in life do does anybody have that makes them as excited and passionate as sports?

There's nothing but maybe gambling, you know, if you went a big back. But besides that that instant you know, uh, euphoric feeling of of of happiness and success. There's nothing that gets you to jump out of your seat. Sports does. So when you're playing doing that as a career and you have that high and low of working your ass off and feeling those feelings, it's like and then you go into something else. Like you said, Posca, I try to do the same thing. I try to get better,

I ask you questions. I try to be a better host or be at a husband. But there's nothing else for that that that gratification of I've seen your hard work payoff or whatever it may be. There's the's nothing that really gets you out of your seat. So it's

hard to find a substitute. Yeah, and the sudden victory and the sudden death of it, like the and because the sudden victory when you see athletes, this is sharing to anybody listening, when you see grown men or women athletes just overcome by joy and elated at a moment of success when they get a touchdown or you score a goal or something they win like they just like

the pure emotion comes out. The pure emotion comes out because they're You're competing against somebody that's equally as talented, equally as committed, equally as driven, you know, uh, And to find your way to overcome that and to beat them is such is such a reward because so much goes into it. We're not just talking about a month of preparation. We're talking about years and decades of preparation that go into that moment of overcoming and winning and achieving.

And that's been hard for me to replace in in the transition years of my life right now. But Steve Young, who I don't know if you ever played against Steve, he was probably out of the league before, but Steve is a friend. He gave me great advice one time.

Steve is three time Super Bowl winner. Uh. He said, appreciate your life as an athlete for what it was, the building, the sounds of the building, the games you got to play, and being on TV is like, appreciate all of that, Appreciate the heck out of that, but know that you're never going to replace that in your life. So don't move into being a former athlete thinking that

you're going to find something that replaces that. He said, find something else that you love and that's really for feeling and joyous for you, and focus on that, not trying to replace sports with that, but just accepting what sports were, loving what they were, being grateful for them, and now putting your heart into this. So I've tried to remind myself of that, but it's been tough. Are

you able to let me ask you this? Because I know personally certain things are hard for me because I set out you know, obviously, we set out goals and and and points that we want to reach in our professional career when it came to sports, have you been able if there is anything that you didn't achieve, have you been able to let those goes? Because those are the things that have really sat more with me that I didn't I wasn't able to accomplish certain things I

set out to do. Do you have a specific because yes, yes, exactly. Do you have any specifics you want to share of goals or dreams that you had growing up that you were not able to professionally achieve. And I'm I'm sorry, I'm poking the dark spot, but you don't have to if you don't want to. It's no, it is, it's good. It's I mean, you know, I spent five years in the NFL, and that was probably longer than really I thought maybe that it would last because I was just

a guy. I was just a guy. I was you know, college walk on, free undrafted, free agent, just a guy that just made it happen somehow and by the way, I appreciate it. And so but still there are things, you know, Um, I was able to start the second half of one of my years, which was good. So you know, I was able to like check that box

start a game, like even just one game. But there are just certain things statistically or personally, or I've never went to the playoffs, or I didn't play as long as I wanted to, I didn't have the statistics that I wanted to. Um, So it's just things like that that you know, I worked so hard for that. We worked so hard for that. It's just like, man, you just kind of left that box unchecked, and it's just it's just one of those things that's taken longer to

let go. Yeah, mine is never winning a Stanley Cup. So um, that was my goal the whole time. Mine was winning And one of the hardest things for me is to let go of that dream, to to accept the realization that as a player, I will never win a Stanley Cup. But further to that, it's my parents, it's my brother, it's my sister, it's my best friends, it's the people my coaches throughout my life. It's the people that have supported this journey for me that I

always wanted to bring a Stanley Cup to. It's my hometown of a Wolda that I wanted to bring the cup back to. Um, that's a big one for me. That's a really big one. It's hard to let that go because I feel like I disappointed so many people. There are personal stats. I wanted to play a thousand games. I ended up short of that. A couple of injuries caused me, uh short of my career. The release I

was released. At the end, I didn't retire, you know, I didn't say I'm good with this, I'm on my own way out piece with this support, like I check out, I'm done. I was released. That's a hole in my heart. So there were so many things that I didn't accomplish. But when I when I have good days, Michael, when I look back at it, my good days are filled with gratitude. My bad days are filled with what I

didn't accomplish. And when I actually focus on the fact that my actual dream wasn't just winning a Stanley Cup. My dream was expressing myself through my sport every single day. I actually lived my dream every single day. Right, this cup would have been great. But what I can reflect with that kind of a mindset, um, So for anybody else that's going through like a transition of career or a loss of career or something and hasn't accomplished goals,

that's what I would encourage you. Like your your actual goal was probably to express yourself through the thing that you love. You grateful for that. So there's there's one thing I wanted to mention that that sparked it when you said your goals that you weren't able to accomplish. And that was I tell my wife this all the time.

My biggest actual disappointment that that I remember now is I always I was single through my NFL days and always envied the guys that after practice or after games their kids come onto the field and hug them and they'd run around the field on with the kids. And I was just when I was playing my playing days, I was like, man, I can't wait for that, Like I can't wait for my kids to like run on and see daddy in his pet And I never got that, And so that is one thing that's the biggest thing

for sure. I wish I would have had that memory with my kids now. So that's amazing, Yeah, that's I get that because it was so awesome to see guys bring their kids through the locker room and stuff like that. And for me, it's even further like you're a you're a father, you have a daughter. Um for me, you have one daughter, right, one daughter and a son and a son. So you have a daughter and a son For me, I don't have kids yet, So my kids

won't know me as that athlete. They'll be like, really you are that, Like they won't be able to wear my jersey at the game, you know, which would have been a really cool memory to have. So Um, but that's by my own choice. You know, that was by my own choice. I knew that, But I always thought i'd play, as every athlete does, think that we would

play longer. Um, give me, give me your favorite one of your favorite personal memories, or something that you're really proud of about your career as an athlete, Michael, something internally that you're so just warms your heart and proud of. Here's the thing I will say, And this is something I always It's kind of intangible and immeasurable. Where I

never changed. And I say that with confidence and pride that the people that knew me before, the people that knew me during, the people that knew me after, I was the same person. And I tell people too. I tell young guys that don't mentor or talk to who are in college or or or trying to be in you know, in the NFL or whatever. I tell him. Look, I knew everyone's name from the janitor to our g M. I was like, I should have been cut two years

prior to when I actually was by buff Low. But I truly believe the reason I wasn't was because I was a positive guy around the facility. I was just one of those guys that like, okay, so we're like, he's a he's a good dude. He like brings the team up, he's here every day, he works hard. He never missed it. He just I was consistent. I was the same person every day. And so that's one of those things that I look back on and no one can take that away from me because I was like

I never changed. Yeah, that's awesome. I love that about you, man, because I feel the same way about myself. Like you said the janitor to the gm UM, I missed those relationships. I miss seeing the the staff at the rink, you know, the dorman or the locker room staff or anybody. It could be the guy in the elevator, could be the lady at the parking when we get there. Like, I miss seeing those faces and just being involved with those people's lives um and knowing that you you are part

of something. You aren't the something, correct, you know. So there's there's athletes that are like that. They're like, I'm the show. I'm here, You're here to serve me, But there's so many other ones that aren't that are like, I'm part of this. We are all part of this, and they share in your winds, you know, like the fun part. They share in your winds. So yeah, um, your favorite NFL memory? Favorite NFL memory? Home man like

asking athletes this, what's one? What's one memory? Maybe a play you made, maybe like a feeling looking up and see eighty thousand people in the anthem, the planes flying over, Like, I don't know what's What's a memory that stands out to you? There is a weird plane. So I grew up in the d C. Area. Okay, so I grew up. I grew up a Skins fan and we were playing

the Broncos. Was it two? There's two thousand and On a play, I was stretching out and I went to go block Champ Bailey yea, and I blocked them and did my job. It was great, but it was it was one of those moments that I'm like, I'm like kind of jogging back to the huddle. I'm like I was a kid watching him. You know. It's just at that moment you play with these guys who you looked up to or you were fans of and it's just like that's surreal moment that you're like, wait, what what

just happened? Immediately you feel like you're twelve years old again. So that's one of those. I had a few of those, but that was one of those moments because I grew up a Redskins fan and it was Champ and he had been in the league at that point like fifteen years or whatever it was. I was just like, Yeah, he's the man. And then so did this happen for you? Because I had that same thing where you're like, yeah, you're not that good man. I'm on your level now,

you know for sure. You're so proud of yourself. You're like, yeah, he's just human. He's human, but he's human with you, brother, Let's go for sure. And I've also had the reverse of that where I've also where I've also go to hit a guy and I went to go hit like te Kio Spikes when he was with the Chargers and he is a brick wall and I went up and I was two pounds when my playing days. I went up and snacked him. I didn't it was like hitting a tree like that. He didn't go anywhere and not

even like office foot or anything. I just kind of okay, you got it, my bad, I'm just getting running back. That happens too. Sometimes you'll get a guy you're like, yeah, you ain't that bad man. I'm I'm right here with you. I'm here, I'm here. And then other times you'll you get a guy you're like, oh damn you. Yeah, okay, I get it, you got it, And that's why you still got it. You're the man. I love it, um. But it was that was that was something for me my first ten games in the NHL, I was looking

around it like these guys. That was just like these are my childhood idols. I play them on Sega Genesis I haven't guys. And then and then you know, you get us. You take a puck from them, like you said, you block Champ Bailey, and you're like, okay, I can I can hang here? You know, they're great. Great, It gives me something to strive to to become and be better at. But yeah, I deserve to be here. I can hang here so good. Yeah, awesome man. So I

want to get into more sports with you, um. And we're also gonna bring on another tastic guests and the hilarious guests. Um, and we're gonna have a conversation about sports in generals, what it means to us as men. We're gonna explain to a lot of our a lot of our community here at how men think our female We're gonna explain why sports are so important to us, why they matter so much White guys are addicted to sports. We're gonna get three different angles on it. Um. We'll

be right back with another guest right after this. We'll get into why sports are so important for men. Okay, back from breaks. The question we get from a lot of our listeners, A lot of our listeners are female. We get this question a lot. Why do men love sports? What is it about sports that men are so drawn to? So let's ask a professional athlete here, let's ask. Let's ask you, Michael, what is it about sports that just not just men, but answering from the male perspective, why

your men drawn to sports? There's there's two reasons. One one is, uh, maybe the surface level one to the second is a little bit deeper. The surface level is there are some guys who may be into sports because it feels like their own thing. They know they're significant others or their girlfriends might not be that into it. So it's their time. It's their excuse to have time to themselves. They're excuse to hang out with their buddies, they're excused to do something else. So that's surface level.

But the main reason I think, is I kind of touched on before, is there's nothing else in life, in my opinion, besides maybe hitting big on the blackjack table that gives you that immediate uh energy or excitement or euphoria that sports does. Nothing else in life gets you out of your seat jumping, or have grown men and women paint their faces or were crazy costumes at arenas or stadiums. Nothing else does that. That's why we love it.

That's true. Um so is it? Do you think that like guys are reliving their glory days with that or is it the other reason? One other reason I heard why men really love sports, it was a great conversation I had, was because they see people that pursued their dreams. So they see people that didn't give up. Because I think every I could be wrong. I'm not I shouldn't put paint just a broad stroke, but a lot of guys when their kids want to be a professional baseball player,

played in the NFL, be a professional hockey player. Those are things we want to do when we're kids. We see that as so cool, right, And as you get older, for a lot of men, they let that go and they pursue other things in life, which is great. They're very successful. They maybe are more fulfilled and happy in other areas. But they also I think have somewhat of a respect for that guy held onto that dream and he pursued it. And I used to play against that guy.

I played against one guy who played college. You know, like they still find themselves, they see themselves in the sport a little bit. And we all we all know the guy too that that said that, Well, if I didn't have this, and if I didn't blow my shoulder out in high school, if I didn't tear my cl on this, I would have I would have dated too everywhere. Uh and then there's the other guy. The older they get, the better they were. Um. Yeah, those guys are put

the guys with the injuries. So true story. I had one guy. I met a guy I was on vacation after the season ended. I would book like four flights, five flights. Me and my brother and my buddies and we go somewhere and we're in Mexico and I had a guy was just talking to him. I was like, so, what's your name and he's like, my name is blah blah. I don't want to say his name. And he's like I was like, yeah, um, tell me give me a real quick life story in like twenty seconds. And he's like, well,

I was a professional hockey player. I was drafted by the Washington Capitals. Um, you know professional. I ended up never going pro, but I was drafted, you know, when I was seventeen, and just then I went into like medical or I went into insurance whatever. He gives me the spield. But but he's like, yeah, I still consider myself an athlete. And my buddy sitting beside me is just tapping me on the shoulders like oh my god.

And the guy's like what is going on, And my buddy goes so, you know, Brooks here has played for the Capitals for ten years and this guy just like shut it. He was just like, oh damn, it's just like I preached us to the wrong guy. But yeah, they still have the dream. I think that's why guys love it. They still have the dreams. You're so right, Michael, with the like the jolt of energy. And I think also as I think about that, as they say that the jolt of energy, it also gives men a reason

to like express themselves. I don't think guys are really I mean, you're a father, so you get to express

it with love and stuff too to your children. But like I don't think guys unless they still play sports themselves, get to like, yeah, like well, just like have that life come out of them, right, have that that that life of that intensity, because maybe they go to work in the work environment isn't like that, or maybe they have a couple of daughters and it's not that kind of like an atmosphere you know that who knows, Like it's just so, but that beast is still in there.

That competitive drive is still within guys. There's testosterone. They're still like it's a watching sports. They get to act as that expression that makes sense? Oh, absolutely, which I want to turn the tables with quick and ask you a question around that. When you do have kids, are you worried about being that way too much? Like when they do, whether even if it's your daughter or something, whoever, it is. Are you worried about your energy or your

expectations coming out when it comes to sports. I'm not, truthfully, I'm not, and this is why, Um, I don't have kids, so I can't say that I'm going to be perfect at it. But my parents were so freaking good, so amazing at being so supportive but never pushy, that they never pushed me over the edge. And I never said you have to do this, you have to do that. You're like like my my mom, God bless her heart, always like I always think I played the most amazing

or always thought I played the game. I could never play a bad game in front of Mom because he's just like, you played so good, you tried so hard. And then and then Dad, on the other hand, Dad off constructive criticism because he knew I wanted to get better. In his job, he was my coach. His job was to try and help me get better, always the port of always from a place of love, always from a place of trying to help me, not putting pressure on me. So I think I learned a lot from how my

parents handled me. But let me ask you that question having two kids, like how do you how do you navigate them being in whether it's sports or competition, whether it could be dance or anything else, Like, how do you navigate that as a parent, Um, do you push them hard? Do you find you push them hard? How do you navigate that? You know that some of that is to be determined because you know, my daughter's four should be five in January, my son's almost two, so

they're still young in that. UM, what I will say in contrast of your story, I learned my mom was similar to yours, but my dad was kind of opposite. Where so for me, I'm kind of I've learned what not to do based on my experience of um, you know, level of disappointment or how that was expressed towards me, or frustration and how that was expressed towards me. It wasn't necessarily healthy. Having said that, the toughness also is what I needed to to drive me to where I was.

Um to you know, I really look back and be like, well, if he wasn't that hard on me and my personality, and maybe I wouldn't have achieved what I have. So but my biggest thing is I'm trying to practice now is always to tell them I'm proud of them to get on their level, like even if they did do something wrong or or whatever, and you'd work at something. I get on their level. I never looked down at them, you know, and patronize them in that way. Um A, what A what a gift that is just for our

audience to hear that share that again? Can you tell us like a little story there? Yeah, So for me, this is something I heard. God where did I hear it from? I can't even remember. Someone way way smarter than me said it, and I pick it all. I made a mental note of it. And it was all about the child psycho oology of because I remember being a kid and most of my memories are of my dad looking down at me, yelling at me, screaming at me, abusive, whatever it was. And so I was like, I don't

want that fear for my kids. I want them to know that I'm imperfect, that they can come and talk to me about fears, about issues about you know, adversity, and also happiness and joy and everything like that. So what I learned was just getting down on their level, whether it good, bad, or and different, and just talking to them from that level, especially when they're little kids, and just being like talked to daddy or if I'm disappointed or if I'm happy, whatever it may be. That way,

they look at me as a peer. They still respect me as a parent, but they look at me as as not some superior being. That's always right. Yeah, Wow, that's powerful, man. That's why I love bringing fathers on this show. That's all. That's a gift. Thank you, Like personally just for me, that's a gift. Um, because I've never really heard that before. Um, but yeah, I can

see that. A's like because you think coaches you might have had of something just like Hauler and at you down and make you or insecure lack of confidence, whereas somebody down eye level talking to you can be so supportive. You're gonna we're all gonna have our moments where we don't have handled it perfectly or sometimes they do just need to kick in the assid you know. But you know ninety eight percent of the the time, I want to be able to to do that in everything. But let

me ask you this too, though. So this is a debate my wife and I had where my daughter a couple of years ago, she had a dance recital. Okay, our daughter was the one who was running around in circles like not doing the routine. She was like two and a half. It was the cutest thing in the world. So afterwards they all got handed this little trophy with this spinny star on it. So we get home. I look at my wife. I was like, hey, I'm gonna throw this in the trash and she's like, what, No,

you can't throw a trophy in the trash. Like I'm like, what, Why's she's gonna forget about this like tomorrow, Like she doesn't even remember it now. We're just in the car ride, like, why do we need to keep it? Well? She and I was like why can't us just saying we're so proud of you. You should be proud of yourself. Be enough. And so I'm big anti trophy for everything, but I'd love to know another professional athletes feelings on that when you know the time comes oh man on that one up.

I don't know because I agree with you. I mean, kids get trophies for every single thing now, which devalues a trophy, right you If you get a trophy for every weekend that you play a tournament or something, it's like, well, I got two hundred of these so instead of like, wow, I earned these five you know, so I see that. On the other hand, I don't know, man, if I'm just because because I'm not a dad and I'm not

a dad to a daughter. If she's two and a half and she gets a trophy, I'm gonna put that figure right up on the I just like I don't just because I still want to be a dad and take down the TV. The trophy is going up, guys, a little ledge for this boor in trophy. This thing's get a spotlight on. Yeah, let's get a spotlight on here. We got look at this shopy, look at this because she was the best answer out there. Let me as see that transition though, coming from like from being an

alpha male. I'm asking the male playing an alpha sport. How how is it as a man going to like a dance recital, dance competition. I love it. I'm a d that dad that's in the back, like doing the moves like with my daughter, like no, you gotta do it like this and like this. And I'm so if even if my daughter wants to pursue dancing or cheerlead and I will be that dad that's doing the moves practicing the routine with her, like, let's do this, let's get after it. I love it. That's awesome, man, I

could see myself doing that. Were you nervous about that before you were a parent? Like, Oh, I wonder if I'm gonna, like, if I have a daughter and she's not into sports like I am, I'm am I going to be able to connect with her? Were you nervous about that? You know? I think that's that's a great question because I think as athletes, we we get that question all the time, right, like, you're gonna steer your kids away from sports because of health reasons that you

know of? Are you gonna steer your kids? Are you gonna make them play sports because you did at the highest level. I'm I'm indifferent. I want them to They're gonna do something right sitting at whom am I doing anything? But like our daughter, she's showing more interest towards dance, and she's very artsy, like loves to draw. She's a

phenomenal drawer for four years old. So we might get her a little art teacher to come over and like and help inspire hers her creativity somewhere because she's so creative. So I really don't care because and you'll learn this when you you're a dad. You see them doing something that makes them happy. Like our daughter yesterday just drew a picture of the family and she even draws me bald without any hair. You know, it's so fitting, and she puts it up on the fridge. I'm like, how

cool is this? Like you know, like she drew the dogs and everything, and it's just I love it. I don't. I don't care um at all. Really, I love that outlook. Uh. I feel like and I can only project this because I'm not there yet, but I feel like I would be the same. What I do want to do is I want to get when I have kids, I want to get them touches on as many things as possible. So I don't want to just take them to the rain and say, Okay, this is what you're gonna do.

I want to play soccer with him and play basketball with him. I want to dive in the ocean with them. I want to play off with them. I want him to water ski, I want them to um dance. I want them to like whatever and then just see just expose them to everything and then see what they gravitate towards like you said, your daughter is gravitating towards drawing

or being an artist, dancing, very artistic side. So I do want to And I'm also curious because I don't want them to be me, and I don't want my kids to be me because they're not me there they would be mixed with a partner, and I want to just see what they're life is. So I don't know. I think it's got to be so cool man, you know, I will say to that though. So my wife grew up in Michigan, Okay, she figure skated for like thirteen years.

So she's trying to get Jolie on the ice a bunch, and our daughter hates it, and she can't wait to get our son on the ice too, and she she wants to be a little hockey mom and and all that stuff. She was even a skate girl for the Red Wings back in the day or some some crap. But and I told her. I told her, I was like, you can't have both. I was like, you can't take

both of them and want them to do skin. I was like, my biggest thing is I just want one of them to do something I can help teach them, right, So I never did you know? I love hockey, but I never played hockey. I can skate okay, because I'm athletic, but that's about it. So I was like, I can't teach them anything. I just want to be able to share my knowledge of something, and so that includes you know, golf, basketball, baseball, football, even soccer. But I was like, anything outside of that,

you know, I don't, which is cool too. If if neither one of them do any any of those, I'm cool with it because I'll learn about it, I'll dive in. I'll just help them from a general standpoint of like work ethic and and and everything like that. But that is one thing I told him. I was you can't have both. I was like, I want to be able to teach them something. Um, what just a personal question for you. What if your boy said, um, dad, I

really want to play football. I want to I want to make football my life and pursue a career in professional football. I want to go to college. But um, what would you feel if your son approached you with that? You know that? Yeah, like what I've never been asked that question? Good question because I'm typically asked what if they don't want to play, and I'm fine with that.

But if they do want to play and they talk about they want to pursue it seriously mhm um, I'm gonna have to do some introspection because knowing, you know, guys like us, knowing what it takes, that doesn't make exact thoughts to get there. Knowing the sacrifices and knowing that it takes luck two like you can be in the it really does, whether luck from injuries, luck from

right place, right time, just luck. So and to know how that lifestyle is of of uncertainty and of of traveling across across the country and maybe bouncing from team to team from you know, from trying to manage your schedule as a young adult in college and being a student athlete, and so that I have more fear around that because because guys like us know what it takes and know how much time effort emotionally, mentally and physically it takes on you, do you think it would take

you a while to like dive in and help him? What have you said? Okay, Dad, I appreciate that. I'm still going to go anyway. Yeah, I mean I would be right there for him. I would just want him to know that, you know, what you're signing up for takes a lot, you know. And I had so I have a younger brother who's fourteen years younger than me, and same parents, and every think my parents were married thirty or some years. She was just a nice little surprise.

And he's in college right now playing football. And you know, when he started saying that, I thought I was gonna have to have more of that conversation. But the thing about him which was cool is he was old enough to see me play and come to my games, which was cool that he saw me working. He saw how hard you know, how much effort it took, and everything in the off season, and and so he's able to he was able to mimic that. So I haven't really

had him have many of this conversation. That's almost like if you work twice as hard, harder than idea at your age. So I'm not worried about him, but it is scary if if you know, our sons come up to us and say they want to play the sport that we played. Yeah, I can see. I could see that when you were when I asked you that question, you echoed my what I was thinking. My first thought would be, do you know how far, how deep and dark that you've got to go to get good enough

to be there? Like the depth of what how you how far you need to pursue this? Like, oh, that would give me hesitancy because I know and you know how far you have to go what it requires of you, um to get that. So um, I mean think about think about the days, and I'm sure you can attest this. I feel like, you know, everyone on the outside looking at professional athletes like, man, they gotta love their job, their liver, their dream and all that stuff, Like they're

probably happy every day. Yes, essentially we are. But those dog days of those workouts, in those days where you're just like, do I really want to do this anymore? Or even when you're trying to make it and you're training and you're throwing up and you're exhausting, you're like, and then you have to get up and do it again tomorrow. It's like those are the moments that you you fear because you want your child or someone close

to you to be able to do that. But those are the days exactly that you're talking about that is just you go to a dark place. Man. There was a week, dude, there was a week in February. This happened in February every year. It was thirteen years pro, fifteen years pro, thirteen years in the NHL. Um, every year in February, there's one week where I was like, I quit. It's just like I quit, man, I just quit because it's just like, I this sucks. I'm so beat up, I'm so cut tired. Um. Because you play

every second day. Second half of the season, we play every second day, and then it continues right through playoffs and you're traveling. You're five games and seven nights and five different cities on the road, and you're just like a zombie shoulders rack, can't turn your head right, knees banged up, just block a shot, and you're just like, I quit. But but you pursue it, you go through it,

through it. I'm surprised. Actually, that is one thing. I know we're gonna get Petris on here in a minute, but that is one thing that I uh commend, like you guys and all pretty much all the other professional sports besides football, the traveling aspect. I can't imagine the traveling that y'all have to do the amount of hotels you have to stay because that's the thing we get. I mean, we're maybe two nights in the hotel, and

that's if we're going from coast to coast. We go a day early, we leave on Fridays, but mostly it's leave on Saturday. You spend one night in a hotel, and then you go back home on Sunday after the game. Yeah, you don't just get used to it, and you stay in like stay in the same hotel as you guys do Martory for the c b A that we stay in five star hotels, so it's it's Carl four seasons and stuff. Um, you just kind of get used to it. But the travel, I mean, you know, professional teams have

traveled down to a science as a sleep doctor. So they'll look at the schedule and get you scheduled and we're gonna stay overnight in this city. The hard part about the travel is when you play a Uh you're in d C. And we play a game down in Tampa Bay and we fly back that night. We get in to thirty and we've got to be at the rink at for practice the next morning. And you're like, I'm hired and then uh, you know, and maybe that's after your third game in four nights or something. So

that's the tougher part of it. But um, joining us now, mychael, Um, we're gonna bring in another guest to talk about sports because they haven't had enough of sports with you and I yet, So we're bringing in another guest. I believe he has just joined this beautiful, beautiful zoom called by the Way. I hate to I'd rather see you guys in in studio, but this man is a college football

analyst for Fox Sports. He is hilarious. He's also on the Petros and Money Show, and he has if I was a sportscaster, I think I would love to say this name if he's an athlete. Petro's Papa docas in the house. Petros, Are you there, brother, I'm here, dude. I just want to say your name again, like Petrols pop.

But Doc, guess like you could be. I could hype you up as the most the most thrilling athlete of all time and with that name, can you I used to be an athlete and they they had they had a hard time saying my name back in the day. Oh I'm sorry, Is that a back that's oral Her. I interviewed Oral Hershazer last time I was doing so we got a picture. I am in an old Cougie sweater the eight back when the Dodgers, last time the Dodgers won the World Series. Hold on, I'll make it normal.

I love it, man, and I love it. Leave it. But I used to play football. I'm the captain of the worst football team in uh USC history. So they used to say my name all the time back in the day. Uh But now I say other people's names and then try my best to get them right for the last you know, twenty years. Um So, brother, welcome to the show. So sorry, I'm like, no, no worries it all. You never lay, never be sorry. Bro, We

appreciate you being here. Michael and I have been diving into our journeys as professional athletes migrating out of sport. But then also we're diving into the journey of why do men love sports so much? Like what is it about sports that just draws men to sports? We're trying to answer this question for our female listeners of how men think they're like, why do you guys love sports? Petros tell us why we love sports? Well, Uh, that's

many layered but interesting. You know, I'm Greek, so and I've traveled a lot in Greece, especially when I was a young person. So uh, going to Greece and going to those old arenas which are still there where they would have competition, and it was different back then. Obviously everybody was naked and all greased up, and uh, the women who had to hide in the trees if they wanted to watch a bit of a misogynistic society. Uh uh.

But but the one thing you kind of head out of it is I mean, there wasn't really any reward for competing back then, but people competed because really for the same reason people compete now at its core, which is the competition itself is just men or women or whoever competing. But what gets revealed because of the competition

is character and virtue. And I mean, deep down, I think that's why people are interested, because it's you know, especially with a football background that I have, which is a sport that probably shouldn't exist, you know, if if we had a perfect world. It's a bludgeoning, really tough sport. But one thing that you can say about every football team, uh, is there's people young men overcoming adversity, and uh, it's one thing to do, right, Like, we all kind of want to do it and be on a team. If

there's a lot of sacrifice. I heard you guys talking when I was struggling to get on. There's a lot of real sacrifice involved in doing it at a very high level and consistently and maintaining that. But we all

like to be on its periphery too. You know, you've seen the ugliest athletes on the world in the world with some of the most beautiful partners, and you wonder what's going you know, well maybe maybe you know, she didn't know what it's like to score a touchdown, you know, but she wants to be as close as possible, even if the guy looks like uh sea monster. So uh,

I mean we've all seen it. Uh. So there's something there's just something attractive about it that goes way past uh you know, corporate sponsorship and TV and Buffalo Wild Wings and you know fat Guy's tailgating and Lincoln Nebraska. Uh, there is something. There's a human uh drama I guess that we all want a piece of at some level. It will take interesting take is that, So I like that take. That's a different outlook than Michael and I have covered some of my Michael has touched on that,

but um, what do you think believe? Just further to that, I love what you said, is that overcoming the the obstacle or the adversity in the game, there's there's something revealed about a person's character, virtue, who they are as a human being, not just who they are as an athlete. Why do you think what is it that you think draws you? And I'll ask both of you guys to be a fan of a specific player where you're like, that's my guy. What is it in in in that

athlete that you really like? Why like Petro's Why do you like this picture or this you know, cornerback or what is it? What is a characteristic that you were drawn to when watching sports? Well you might be shocked to know that I like flawed people. Uh so uh And I was a big, stupid running back. Actually I wasn't as fat when I played, but I love bludgeoning backs, you know, I love there was a guy who had a big, a lot of personal problems. I saw Hi

when I was a kid on the sideline. Um, where Michigan. My dad played at USC as well, and Michigan destroyed USC in a Rose Bowl in the eighties and it was a running back named Leroy Horde who who was the MVP of the game, and he went on to have an NFL career, but he had cocaine problems and all these things that plague athletes, you know, especially in the eighties, and he had to come back after a

guy got hurt. Robert Smith, who was a colleague of mine at Fox at Old Ohio State running back who was trying to get a premed degree at the same time, made a lot of news back then, and he had to come back and he had like a fifteen hundred yard season and they asked him, you know, can you describe your running style, you know, to to the to the fans, and he said, well, if you need one yard, I'll get you three. And he said, if you need

ten yards, I'll get you three. To me, you know that, to me, it's that kind of humility and that kind of awareness of your mortality as an apple ate that I kind of because most guys, obviously to do it, you've got to feel pretty invincible, and you got to approach it like that, So little glimmers of stuff like that really attract me. That's something I'll never forget, you know. I like that, Michael for you two part question, Um, what attracts you to be a fan of a player today?

And why were people fans of you? What characteristics did you have that people made you a fan of you for sure today? Kind of like Patris said, I like when I know people's story and they've overcome adversity, like even taking it back, like I like Michael Vick even when his glory days in Atlanta, but then the fact that he dealed with what he out with, came back and played, Like where else other than sports can you go from hero to zero and zero to hero again,

like you know what I mean. So it gives you that platform to be able to control your narrative and overcome this adversity publicly where instantly, really success can help change people's image of you based on you know, even over from what you've gone through negatively. So I really do like that. And then I mean outside of guys I know personally, like Ryan Fitzpatrick is my favorite human being.

He was my quarterback in Buffalo the years I spent there, and and people always what why is he playing for so many I was like, you meet this guy, you realize why every team wants them there. And I was like, that's and he was one of the guys that I looked up to when I played because I was young then. And so that's what I would say, Brooks to your second part of the question is why people were a fan of me or again enjoyed having me around? Was because I was a positive energy. I was a smile

on my face. I said hi to people, never too good to do anything. Always you know, again, like we talked about before, whether it's Keith the janitor or you know our GM, So it didn't matter. I was talking to everybody. I was treating everybody like a peer. And I think that's why, you know, people enjoyed communicating with me and having me around. I think a lot of

people I love that man. That's awesome. What they call that intangibles in sports, those are intangibles that those are glue guys is like the team wants that guy to be here. The team is like telling the GM, can you sign Michael, Like we need him here, we want him here. Um, those guys are awesome. Those are some of my favorite teammates of all time. Um I've played with some world class guys, unbelievably talented guys, and some of my favorite teammates are guys that's carved out to

ten year careers with UM. I had one one teammate that was one of my top three to five teammates of all favorite teammates of all time. And his skills might have been like minor league level, but he had such heart, such dedication, so fun, and he's so good in the locker room, showed up for every single teammates, so dedicated. You know, just that he carved out an amazing career for himself and I just have such respect to that. The other thing that you see is you

in sports. I believe this, there's a lot of As in any industry, there's good humans and there's bad. In sports, there are a lot of exceptional human beings. Like you just said, Ryan Fitzpatrick, there are some human beings the fabric of the quality of person that they are. They are leading and spearheading an entire group of people, a city, a movement, and everybody is watching them and for the right reason, because they are that kind of a person. Man or a woman. So I I aligned with that too.

I aligned with the human nature of a person, their service and and and there, as you said, their mortality, patrols and their humility and there they're like gratitude for being part of this city. Not being you played for the Skins. You were from the DC area. I wasn't. I was from Canada, but the city welcomed me in as an adopted son. You know how freaking cool that is? You know, So I want to represent my adopted family as best I can. UM. I think that was one

of the reasons I was loved UM. But it's really interesting, like why why certain people are drawn to certain players? UM. Let me ask you both this both as former players. Another question, do you guys get the same adrenaline Russia when watching as you do when playing as you did when playing ahead? Uh? For me? I, you know, I I call games and have been doing it for you know,

since two thousand four for Fox. And I was really young when I was doing that, and I was calling the games, you know, specifically Impact twelve games ten at that time that you know, there were guys that I had played with, or against, or or recruited, you know, now I'm forty three, and the guys look like kids, you know, and face mask and and I like that about college football because kids make mistakes and it does make the game exciting. Whereas you know, in the NFL,

the hashbox are closer's. As you know, there's there's no room to go anywhere unless you have the balls to go through somebody. And uh. And it makes the level of football excellent but also a little bit predictable. In college. I mean, these guys are freaking out. You know, most of them aren't even used to the crowd and can't

even hear their teammates. I mean, the chaos of it is really something that I try to continue to connect with because you know, when when you get older and you're up in the booth and you have your suit on and somebody has given you water, and you know, somebody picks you up and drives you the airport when it's over, you know, you can become an a hole pretty fast. Uh. But they've moved me down on the

field for a couple of years. And I did kind of like a sideline analyst thing for Joel Klatt who works at Fox, and I kind of smelled the players you know, wet again and listen to the coaches scream and just kind of felt the chaos of it. And that gave me a little bit more adrenaline that I

was used to, you know, covering games. Uh. But you know, it's kind of funny when you're watching these games without fans and you're watching guys, you know, Mookie beats, you know, the most excellent level of athlete out there, and they're they're playing this really high level without the fans there, you know, and gosh, you know, channeling twenty years ago. You know, if you get the ball in a college football game, a hundred thousand people in the States, they

see the whole. When you see the whole and they get all you know, they get up too. And you can't recreate that, you know, you just can't. There's not enough pores in your body to recreate that stuff. So I guess the long answer is no, Michael, what about you? Do you get adrenaline rush watch like you watch your brother? Do you get the same adrenaline? I mean, nothing compares for sure when you're the one under the helmet or

anything with the you know, cleats lay sed up. But luckily, now being far enough and move playing fantasy sports again. That gets me, That gets me amped up enough. You know. Um, but I will say to Patriots's point, you know, I

was watching the Tour Championship last round yesterday. I'm a big golfer and watching these guys were you know, Justin Thomas and Xander softly, We're kind of making their move on Dustin Johnson, and you know, Justin Thomas said a big birdie put on like sixteen, and I just I was like to myself, I was like, oh, but I'm like, there's no roar on the TV, and it's just even a sport as quiet as and calm and professionalist golf, not feeling that crowd. I was just missing the hell

out of it. I was like, I can't even even imagine football started on Thursday. I don't even know how we're gonna It's gonna be the weirdest thing in the world. If I can't handle watching golf without fans, I don't know how we're gonna watch football. Hockey's in it right now. Hockey's in the third round of the playoffs with no fans. Um, And exactly what you said, there is the reason we love the reason I love being a professional athlete is

people get to bear witness to your excellence. Right, so when you make a player, like when I would score a goal eighteen thousand, twenty thousand, people erupt and as you said, Petrol, it's like chanting your name, like your number, like high fiving because of you, Like your name comes up on the scoreboard and they cheer and they clapped, like people get to bear witness to the years and decades that we put in, Michael of pursuing this excellence

to be there. And that's such a thrill. Like I don't think I don't even come close when I'm watching to having that same kind of adrenaline rush as as when playing, just because it was It's just it's such and it almost breaks my heart. I've actually thought, like, what can I do in life again where I can be in front of a stadium stadium audience, because that

is so freaking cool. So, um, I want to I want to hijacker question Brooks real quick for Patriots because I've I've personally, I've known enough guys now that that kind of in the line of work that you are in Patriots. But I remember even before I did, and watching commentators or watching sideline analysts or whatever, being like, man, that's gotta be so easy. All you gotta do is just talk about it. But I know, now knowing enough guys in that world, how crazy and how much work

y'all put into it. So I'd love for for Brooks listeners on the show to understand how difficult, how much goes into what you do. Now. Well, what's interesting, you know, is I wasn't, you know, clearly a star football player. I mean, I was serviceable, But my value when broadcasting is not like, hey, this guy want a heisman or something. You know, it turned out being that, you know that I've had longevity. So I trained a lot of people,

or at least used to. This year is a little walky, but usually I'm in the booth with somebody else, like try to train Mark Helfridge, uh Hudgens and Big Hodge the Hall of Famer. You know, some guys are better than others, and you know, they all know more football than I'll ever know. You know, they'll forget more football than I'll that you know, Uh, I trained to Marco Murray.

He went back to coaching Shane Vereen. We recently trained so you know, usually I do a three man booth with a guy and I teach him how to call a game for Fox. And you know, it's a really interesting question because it does seem pretty easy. As a football player. You sit down and you say, oh, they're green, right, you know, here comes you know, here comes horse to you know, hot proco or whatever. I mean, you know,

and you just do it. You speak your football language in your mind as an ex football player, and when whether it's defense or offense, and you just watch the guys line up a game. Is calling a game is so much different. And the one thing to really remember that I try to teach these guys with TV is I mean, we're part of this, but it ain't about us. I mean, we're we're we have a director. I mean,

the cool thing about football on TV is football on TV. Right, the colors, the pictures, the close up stuff, the slow motion cameras. You know, if we can show that without vomiting all over the thing and telling old football stories about stuff that when no one cares about anymore. Uh, that kind of stuff is uh is helpful. But you know, everybody gets caught up. You know, you think it's your moment and you hear yourself talking and you get all

riled up. So there's a real balance, you know, between giving everybody their due, like you know, that's your moment, you know, especially in a college game, like your family is probably gonna watch that touchdown five times, you know, on the DVR and everybody in your town, and man, I gotta get that guy's name right, you know, I gotta we gotta celebrate that properly. That's his moment, you know, But you don't want to overdo it too, because we got pictures. So you know, it's a real balance, uh

to walk. Some people like it, you know, when Tony Romo tells everybody what's gonna happen. But Michael, you know that a lot of guys can tell you what's gonna happen, you know. But we're not supposed to be future tellers unless the audience wants it. And the audience got really excited when Romo did it, and now he's getting like forty million dollars to go. Okay, one one question for both you, because we don't have a lot of time left. One question for both you start with you, Michael, what

is it that you love the most about sports? In like two to three sentences, What is it that you love the most about sports? It's the opportunity for young men and women two to achieve greatness every day, whether it practice or a game. It's it's their opportunity every day to grow. And there's tangible evidence typically whether you grow, you to get Like all of our coaches have said, you need to get do you get worse every single day. Any athletes heard that. So it's it's an opportunity every

day to do that. Jose, what about you? What is it? What is the thing that you love the most about sports? For me? You know, just going to Dodger Stadium and doing a show, you know, doing our radio show leading up to the game and seeing all the people that

make Mutch a lot of us. You know, all the people that sports bring together, you know, whether they're working or playing or watching or coaching, or a special needs person or people in a retirement home that can't go anywhere, and it's their pleasure for three hours a day to hear the game or to watch it. You know, to me, that's that's its power, you know. It It brings us together, whether you can perform or not. And that especially nowadays

very special. Love is Yeah, mine is uh. I look at it from an athlete's perspective, because as a former athlete, mine was the chase of my potential be marrying of intelligence with the physical capabilities, having to develop both and all of the characteristics. UM, the pursuit of excellence as a human. To be able to master a craft, I need to get better in so many ways, not just

physically but mentally spiritually. UM. The discipline and that pursuit of excellence in order to express myself through the mastery of a craft. UM. It taught me almost everything I know about myself those lessons good and bad. It taught me everything almost that I know about myself, and so that will forever live on with me. So really interesting, guys.

I appreciate, appreciate your perspective. Petro's we gotta let you go right now, uh, and then uh, Mike will be back with another little bit with you after the break. But both of you guys are on a time crunch, so we're gonna be real quick. But thank you Patros for coming on. My man. Look forward Totimore games. Either way, you know the world's gonna keep up to it. You Okay, cheers, cheers, buddy, after this break. What an awesome hour. Michael, you're the man,

um Buddy. Where can our community or how a Man Think podcast community? Where can they get more of you? Where do you hang out? Social media? The podcast tell us where they can find more of you, buddy, for sure. So I'm not on social media. I'm a rare unicorn of that aspect. But my everything is kind of through my wife. She she posted enough for both of us, so it's her. Her instagram is that Creamer Girl. You can go to UM www dot jan might dot com.

We also have our podcast on my Heart Radio wind Down with Jana and Mike, and we also our book comes out UM that we wrote called The Good Fight comes out September twenty two, and you can pre order your addition right now on Amazon. Man. And you guys like on the podcast, you guys are too transparent people. Yeah, there's no there's no more skeletons these closets, I'll say that, man.

You guys like you guys, If you haven't listened to their podcast, check it out because they'll they'll air all of it and and it's refreshing to see UM, to see people air disagreements you know in couples, like I think, um, I think couples too often harbor things and internalize things. And you guys, you guys are almost the exact. Obviously, you'll share everything. What have you learned the most? What's been like one big lessons from doing the podcast with

your wife? You know, we have found it is therapeutic for us because it does it does get us. Talking has become our our brand per se that we we discussed these hard topics and these difficult conversations. Um, for us, it's just it's opened us up even more because we realized that people do want to be open, people want to be transparent with each other. It's just society puts this pressure on you to look a certain way, to act a certain way, to show happiness all the time.

And we're like, look, that's why we titled our book The Good Fight. Were like, couples are going to fight. For those of you who don't think you're going to, it's bs like you're going. It's inevitable. So if you're gonna fight, you might as well do it in a way that you can grow you all closer together as opposed to you apart. Yeah, it's a good saying that I heard um and used it actually just the other day.

Fight for, not fight against exactly, Yeah, fight for. So what was the but the book writing process, like man, it was, it was a process. It was a yearlong process. And in the thing that Jan and I are the most proud of is we wrote every word ourselves. We didn't have a ghostwriter anybody help us. It was just us in our office cranking this stuff out. It's from both of our voices. It's from her voice, from my voice,

and from a wee voice. And it's that way you really get the tone and the feeling of of what the the you know, the words coming off this page and and everything. So you you'll feel our motion through through the pages. And it's a it's a long process that caused a lot of arguments in itself and you know, cause a lot of fights and uh, but it was, it was. It was cool. Man. I've been I've been asked a couple of times to write a book and

I I just haven't dedicated the time to it. I've been like, I don't know what my purpose with doing that right now would be. Um, but one one person, one friend actually gave me a great point. They're like, it's actually really a great reflection and study of your life. It will actually really catch you up to speed on your life and you'll get you'll get insights from it that are that you'll discover that you didn't even weren't even really aware of because it's you're sharing your heart,

you're sharing your something value. You only got X amount of pages, So something in your life that's going to go in there, it's got to be something that that UM defined there was part of your life in a massive way that you want to share to help people with. So UM for that journey, did you experience that? Did you learn a lot about yourself actually through and your

wife your relationship through that journey? Yeah, I think we really um grew a higher level of respect for one another because we're writing these pages and reading these words and we're like like, damn, we've been through a lot, you know, like both of us individually, both of us

as a couple, and it's just like it was. It was invigorating because it was it was also inspiring because we're like, hey, we've done all of what we just wrote, like we can do this, like you know, so it was there was a form of reflection and gratitude afterwards. It's like, look at what we what we've overcome, and I can imagine the same thing, like you said, your friends said to you, like it would be the same where you you you know, talk about your life and

things you've done. You're like, man, I did that, and it's really, uh, it really is validating to your soul to be like, hey, I'm a human being. I've been through some hard times, but I'm still standing here on two feet breathing, and I can be present and grateful for that. That's amazing. I love that you and John are so involved and like, um, commanded you do a lot of projects. You do the podcast wind Down together, did the book together. Um, it's a great way. I

admire it from far. I admire it that you both stepped forward because a lot of couples will actually avoid that is that's tough stuff to have that much proximity with your partner and that much vulnerability and transparency, and

then to have the world comment on it. Right, not not even just to show up like that in a relationship, but to show up like that in a public platform and forum where then people are going to offer their unsolicited, just whatever, uneducated opinion on things and judge your relationship and to have to deal with that. I just commend you both to think you're both kind of pioneers in the space leading with your heart, and I think you've inspired a lot of people to open up in their relationship.

So good on you, brother, Thanks man, I appreciate it. You know. The thing about it kind of touches on a touch on what we talked about at the beginning with like the transitional thing, the one thing about you know, Jane and I work in so much together it would be hard for any couple of ship. It's going to have its obstacles. And I'm one of those people, Like my ideal day is like by myself around nobody. Her idea day is like right next to me, what are we gonna do all day, every second of the day.

We just have different love languages. And for me, you know, finding my identity after sports, you know, being married, being with someone of celebrity status that you can relate to, and and where you go from being your own entity to now you're so and so's husband, so and so's fiance and so. I've had times where I've struggled that we do so much together because I'm like, man, am I gonna have just my own thing? And I know

that there are things will happen. But I did a I had a normal job a couple of years ago in l A when we're first leving out there. So for two and a half years, I did medical sales and it was a grind, an absolute grind, and but it was also the most fulfilling the thing that I had done since my plan in days because it was just me. It was just me doing something, me punching the clock, you know, my own responsibilities. There's a lot of fires you gotta put out in that job and

you've got to perform. And so they they love hiring athletes because of that. So there is something to be said about working so much together. But early on I had an issue. Now I've I've been able to realize that I can get out of my own and be like, hey, this is us doing this. This isn't just me writing coattails. It's we have our thing together, and that's great, super cool. Brother. I appreciate that. I respect that. I love that, I love that your father, love that you're committed to the

relationship and committed to um to the struggle. I say it in my prayers daily. I think I'm thankful for the blessings and the challenges in our lives because both of them, both of them become and define who we are. You know, so they sped to change and challenge and mold us to become who we are. So, uh my, dude, I appreciate you. Any of our listeners, check out Wine down This man is real. Right here, You're gonna get the real deal with Michael and his wife Janna. Um

Until next week, Michael, thank you so much. I could go on, dude, we gotta have another conversation about the athlete anything. We can go on all day. I love it one forever. But I love what you're doing. I love that you're finding your groove in uh after first retirement, Well right, we called first, that's right. I love that you're finding your group in in whatever you move forward, and a lot of the characteristics from being an athlete will serve you in this next chapter. So thank you

for listening. Everybody. Until next week, take care of one another, love one another, and we'll see you back here for another episode of How Man Think Brooks, Thanks Buddy,