An HMTherapy Session

my good buddy, Mr Gavin de Gross over there. I missed you the last two weeks you have he did, he did the show. He didn't even tell me. I heard somebody else said in my chair. We did have a fantastic time. We got great am. You're out there singing songs and dancing. We said, we do the heavy lifting around here. Buddy, you get to come in and like just play around. I get to say thanks guys. Do I get my checks today yet? Name? He's like,

no showmaking money getting there. If this episode is good and people listen, maybe next time I could get a hotel room with coaches. Yes, sorry about that, buddy. It's all right. Gavin had to text me this morning and he's like, I gotta get out of here. There's roaches in the hotel. You know, I heart. We really set you up nice at the house. You could come stay at behind anytime. We have. You should see our basements. Careful about inviting me because I'm actually the guy will

show up at yours the morning. I don't know. We have a gorgeous basement suite. You got like a king Dad. It's like blackout blinds. You got like a theater room right there for you. Okay, yeah, he come stay. You see like a drunken version of me and your driveway to night. Don't be surprised, buddy. Anyway, enough of that. You're the offers on the table for young We're missing we're missing Rick, we're missing Ryan, we're missing Dmitri today.

So they don't everybody, they don't actually know we're doing this. You didn't, you're sinking around. I wanted to do an episode, in fact, I wanted to do too with just you two and our very special guests. Correct, we have an extremely special we have a very special guest. We've been wanting to do this show since our show How Men

Thinks started. Our guest today, How I met her was I went on her podcast called scrubbing in which is on my heart with our dear friend Becca Tilly Beccaca, and she's also a morning co host and just an all around fantastic person. You're one of my favorite people. I've wanted to sit here and do this with you since I met Miss Tanya. Yes Brooks, I love you so much. First of all, I feel like you guys record this podcast at like my off hours, So don't

you normally do this in like the pms? We do it? Yeah, usually four to seven pm. Yeah, you know, I go to bed at Liken. I go to bed at nine, so I'm not far behind you. But I'm super excited to have you here. I love you so much truly, Like I remember when we met when you did come on the podcast, and I like felt this sort of um connection to you, just in a way because I feel like you have the same soul as me. Um.

So I'm really happy to be here. A question for you, do you feel because I feel I have a new soul, like my soul has never lived before. Some people feel like they have old souls. I feel like you, Gav might be an old soul. I have no soul. We'll find it. We'll get it back. You might have left it in a tavern last night, but we'll find giant hole through the center of me. Uh t. Do you feel like you are a new soul or an old soul? I feel like I'm a new soul and I feel

like I'm a young soul. Yes, exactly, me too. Okay, a little bit mmmmmm, we'll dive into that maybe. But so here's the topic of the podcast today, and I think it's a super relevant I think this episode is going to be bigger than we even realize it's about. And you raised this to me when I asked you would you come on our show. What's the topic you would like to talk about? You said, an independent woman and a successful woman and how that how do men react to that and how does that play an issue

or non issue in relationships? Yeah, it's it's interesting because I make no apologies for the way that I am and being successful and being independent, like I'm proud of all of those things. But I do think it's a really interesting dynamic within a relationship because I actually don't know, I haven't figured it out. It's emasculating. I'm just going

to call it out. Sometimes it can be emasculating. So what we're talking about here is the to give you guys a little foundation of this is if a woman is more successful. We're talking financially and a lot of our listeners I'm sure you like, I can't wait for the response from you guys for this. They we're talking about a woman being super successful in her career and very independent, and does that emasculate a man? How does it feel as a man to date somebody like that

or I'm married to one? So I can't wait to give you my thoughts on it and hopefully ease your you know, uh, perspective toward it. But that's what the base of this is. So I want to give you the floorty to just ask, like the most important question for you about what you want to know from us man, from Gavin and I that we could possibly help you, or what you're struggling with with being an independent woman.

I think initially it's hard for me in the beginning because I am because I am the way that I am. I'm a little bit of a control freak and so when I'm start dating somebody like I like to eat early, and I like, you know what I mean, just because of like my schedule and the way that I like live my life, Like I eat dinner like so embarrassing five third year, like six pm, and the guy asks me or to dinner, They asked me to go to dinner like eight or nine, And so I try to

be lucy goosey and like go at the flow. But then there's another part of me that's not able to do that. Um So, I think, like for me, it's a hard balance of trying to maneuver in the beginning, like how how much do I voice what I need and how much do I let them take control? Five thirty six pm, I'd be having an omelet. You're just finishing brunch. Yeah, I'm with you. I'm eating supper at

five thirty six. Yeah, I love eating early. Um So, my question to you is that that sounds more like a scheduling issue or like a schedule not an independent woman. Or is it because of your career that your schedule is like that and you're having a tough time finding a guy. It's a snowball effect because I do have like I do have a really tight schedule, and I do like my work is really important to me. So I don't like to come in super tired or hungover

or whatever. You know, so it's kind of like also making time for somebody and um, and yeah, I don't know. I think I just I struggle with finding the balance. So sorry, UM question. Uh you say independence, This is a broad term independence. Um, But I don't know where that fine line is between what people say being strong or being independent is. I think I don't necessarily think that they're the same thing. And being successful doesn't necessarily

make you independent and vice versa. Um, it sounds like you're someone who is looking for more codependence because it sounds like a lot of times when people are championing their independent so much yet looking for someone to help to take you know, to have a companion, sounds like they're almost independent independencing themselves into loneliness. Um. And having a balance in in that regard I think is tough because I think what happens with a lot of people.

They are pursuing their career, and they're proud of their career, and there's this great pursuit for their career. It's a hard thing to become successful, and careers are different than jobs. You don't clock in and clock out of a career, so you know, you take your career home with you and it ultimately is really your lifestyle your career. It's different, right, Um, So does that what does that sort of interropt goes out the way you feel that you have a career

not a job? Awesome? But I guess, I guess my my My question is it's not. It's not it's not a challenge or anything. But the question is, um, what concessions are you willing to make with your career in order to have Why does she need to concede? I'm saying you have to make some sort of concessions in some ways with your Oftentimes something's got to get in

life anything. When you're building to concede. When you're building a tank, you make sacrifice as you take armor off so it's faster, or put it on so it's stronger. You need a bigger gun or a smaller gun. There's things, there's there's there's different ingredients to balance things out. To make a everything has to be an overall version of something. Can never be a perfect version of one thing. I feel like, um, independent in a way, Independence to me

is my life is very full. I have I'm very happy. I love my job, I have the best friends, I have great family. Um, I can take care of myself, but what I really want is a partner, a teammate to do life with, because I feel like there's so much power in a in a pair and I think I'm just I think I really am struggling finding that

particular man. I guess I don't know how it's like my uh picker is off or like how I can find a man that because I do think that there's something that really do just kind of look at me and look at my career and they're kind of like, yeah, I'm out, or guys, is she going zero to sixty? Like she wants this partner teammate but maybe she should just find a nice pal for a second. So knowing Tanya, I don't think so. Um. I believe that you are

like everyone want sincere companionship and why wouldn't you. But also I love that you are strong enough and proud enough to not sacrifice and give everything up and just bend and almost break. It's going to break your soul if you do that, to give away everything to be like, Okay, I'll come for supper at nine o'clock and I'll show up tired. And I love that you protect the things

that matter to you. And so it can be difficult your your career schedule is different than most maybe, but so it can be a little bit difficult to find somebody that maybe can slide into that. But I don't think if I were you, I would ever sacrifice that. Sure there's compromise, Like sometimes even when I was playing hockey, like every time we'd play a big game tomorrow night and I'd want to be at home resting, and my wife would want to have a date night, and I'd

be like, ah, like can I go out tonight? I want to rest. I want to watch the teams playing tonight in Anaheim that we're playing tomorrow. Um, it's a it's a it's a real subtle dance. I believe when you find the person. But if you find Actually it just came to me. I think if you find the person that you thoroughly enjoy and are intrigued about, the rest is actually pretty easy. And I don't know if you can see that without having that person, Does that

make sense totally? Is? I think? Um? And I A lot of people disagree with me on this, but I'm a like put my all put all my eggs into one basket type of girl. Like I can't do the dating one couple people thing like that, because that would kind of suck on all of them in one shot. Like everybody tells me you should just put a couple of eggs in a bunch of baskets and just see which one that's not. It's not me, and it's like, I can't do that. I intentionally date. I just that's

just how I am. It's how I'm wired. But what's interesting is because I'm also like not afraid to just be fully myself and I'm like, I'm dating, I'm intentionally dating you. I want to see where this goes. And then I go full in and I do like cute things and I do nice things, and I feel like I got maybe go into like show too much or give them too much because I never feel like it's balanced.

But don't you think that a man will you don't feel like it's reciprocal, correct, Like I like, I'm very much like I'll shoot my shot, I'll flirt with you, I'll drop the handkerchief whatever, um, But I don't feel like I get a lot of that back. I gotta step in here. I'm not saying that you haven't had those experiences, but I don't want to just paint all men with a broad stroke that they don't get because some men are extremely thoughtful, and thoughtful is different. So

like thoughtful can be loving and caring. They can do little things. But my experience has been let's say, I'm like, and I think you get into this mode where the one woman could be the planner. So I'm like, always planning the trips and planning the dinners and planning to this, and all of a sudden, I'm like, why is he never doing it? But maybe it's because I set it up that way. Yeah, And I also think I'm a big believer in love languages, and like I know my

love language and I make it. Obviously, probably something else is not great to do, Like on a first or second date, I find out what love language is the guy that I'm dating speaks. I don't think that's a bad thing at all. Yeah, because I think you show love in different ways and it's important for somebody to know that. Can I find that on duo lingo it's you don't know your love languages. So here's the thing.

Here's the thing, tell me if I'm wrong, Tea. I think most of us will give love in the way that we want to receive love. So if I'm an acts of service guy, I'll do like a lot of access service from my wife. But she might be a words of affirmation person and so she's not even receiving the love that I'm giving. So I don't blame you for bringing that up. I I think you're a very evolved human being. I think you're extremely evolved human being, and it's tough for a man to sit at the

table with you. I love being at the table with you, but a bad way. I'm not saying tough. I'm like you are. I'm very impressed by you as a human being, and you deserve a really quality man, and so I don't think every man deserves to sit at the table with you. Appreciate you can say about it, but I want to hear what has to say, because he's a little bit more of a I know. So it's actually really interesting that I'm seeing this because and this is not all Boks is the exception to the this is

that was me. I was Gavin before I met my wife. I spent a whole life in the locker room with twenty three dudes. That's very interesting. But I feel with Banned and Crew guys, you know what I mean, it's it's uh exactly the same. You know what I'm saying. That's that's I think why you you get it too. But I feel like perspective that we're surrounded by gives me hope in the man that I want to take

that from you. And I feel like Gavin is the guy that I am like usually dating, like like no, but I'm so glad that like you do have this platform because I feel like there are a lot of people and I think, um, when you when you're dating so much and you're you're let down, you're constantly let down, there's a lot of fear that comes over you as a woman. Like I feel like that's a lot of place that I function from as a place of fear.

When I when I meet a man that is like kind of cool, I'm fearful like that I won't find somebody better than that. But it's that's not the case. I'm like, I have to really, I really have to struggle and find my faith in everything because I know that I'm destined to be with somebody that I that I feel so passionately in my heart about. So it's like, I just know that it's it's just it's a matter of time. Okay. I like what you're saying. Actually, I

like what you're saying. Umm, is this a possible? A possibility that because because you're successful, Because I'm sitting here in a room of filled with successful, successful people who are career oriented personality types and people who in general win a lot at life. Okay, a lot of the people in this room win. They're used to winning. Okay, we work hard to win, you work hard to win. But ultimately, I do believe in the old school movies of the person who deserves to win wins because they're

the most dedicated. Right now out, you're someone who's used to winning, and I think, I think where it gets frustrating for someone like you and other people here is when it's not going the way that they're used to. Because they're used to winning, they think there's a problem with themselves or with the person that they're they're trying to date. It's only because you're so used to winning that it hurts that much worse that it's not working

out for you because things are going so well. The things that you can control and have fought to control, you have control over. But you can't control another person, right, And I think that tends to be the most frustrating element of of our private lives. Right, you can't fix certain things that aren't doing it for you as someone

for somebody else. And I think that this is this is this is human nature to try to fix something wrong, whereas a good CEO instead only focuses on something right with the personality type they're dealing with, and focuses on only doing those things that work great, rather than trying to correct the things that are wrong with that they're that they're not doing great. But it's interesting because I

do think it's for me. It always comes back to the love languages, because I I think I have gotten to that point where I'm like, I'm not feeling the love from you, how, but how are you? Like, how are you showing it to me? Because for me, I'm at acts of service, So I do little things like

that are thoughtful for somebody. We are buddies. Yeah it's not quite an active service, wow, but um, but not right here on my shoulder to me, words of affirmation, doesn't isn't necessary, totally necessary, but that like the person I'm dating, if they're constantly telling me that they like me and like all of these things about me, and then like that's how they show their love. So it's like I do I think I've gotten past the checklist and like what it's supposed to look like for me, um,

because that can be very limiting. Gav We've talked about that before when from the twenty to thirty I was singled pretty much my whole NHL career there, and I just being single, I got this concept of what I thought a girlfriend was going to be and what she would do, and it was just fairy tale, magical concept. And then my now wife came into my life and brought a whole array of other qualities that I didn't

even see or think about. I was looking for somebody that was, you know, gonna help get groceries and like maybe make me supper or make me lunch, come home, or like just like take care of me in a way, and I was like, this is and now I met like one of the most independent women, probably the most independent woman I've ever met. Very much like yourself. So it can be limiting to have a mindset of what

this person is supposed to be. I thought I was going to marry a Canadian girl and up back in hawk Era in Canada working in hockey, and I'm in l A, married to an American girl doing a podcast. It's true, but you have to be open to seeing things if you're looking, if anybody in our community is looking for a companion, you have to be open to all things versus just boxing a person in saying they have to fit this mold. And I get that we have standards and ideas of what we want, but that

has to be liquid to some degree inflexible. Tanya, is there a something about each person you've dated, let's say, in the last five years, that has a through line? Are you repeating something that looks familiar to you that is not serving you? So yes, but yes, And then I want to go back to something that you said, tell us what that is so we can like figure it out. So I up until the last this last

guy that I did, was totally different. Up until him, I dated men that were not available, and I don't mean available like they were like married or in a relationship like I mean like physically they were either in a different state or they were just gotten out of a divorce, so they're not emotionally available. And I think I did this to protect myself from feeling pain because I went through really like I went through a traumatizing breakup.

So I think that I saw myself having this pattern of dating people that I literally could not get so close to because then they couldn't hurt me. Um. I had recognized that since and I now the last guy I dated lived in Los Angeles and he was like emotionally available and felt that you felt like that was progress for sure to dig deeper into it. Are you sure something was familiar about him, whether he was unavailable

in some way? You think maybe would that would that suit you're with, that possibility suit your personality type, and that you you enjoy your independence so much that even when you do like somebody, there's an element of self restriction because you don't want to lose that that personal time, that space used to having to degree, It's not so much no, not in like I'm fearful of losing my independence, but I definitely think that there is a part of

me that still scarred from that breakup that doesn't want to like let somebody in, Like I think that I've loved without a parachute before, Like I would just jump in and just like I was all in, and I'll never do that again. Like now I always jump in with like a parachute is there. You book your life, Gotta do this, gotta do this, gotta go here, gotta go to this. We got this, this and this and this and this dinner and this party and this this, so that there's no room for someone else. They here's

what we can fit here. You know you can answer that first. And I have a question, like ever since I want me and this up. Last guy ended things. I literally packed my schedule so hard that like I couldn't. I would literally like it was like I just woke up and just went and then went to bed. It's almost a distraction. Yeah, what you wanted to touch on

one thing I said earlier? What was it? Oh? It was the boxes, the checking off of the list, because I was so much that girl, like maybe four years ago, I was like that girl. I had the list and I would go on dates auditioning for my husband, and it made dating so awful for me that I literally committed to a full year. What do you think? They felt like, horrible, horrible. That's like a broke Santa showing up at the the orphanage. Kids are like, hey, this

is what we want. He's like, I don't have the money. I don't even have any workers. So at that point, I committed, I committed to a full year of I said single, where I just said I want to commit to being single. I don't even want I will, I will, don't even want to be in a relationship with these guys. I want to go on a date and just have fun. And it changed my perspective so much because I would have guys ask me out all the time and I'd be like, no, he's too young, he's to this. And

then I just started saying yes to everybody. I was like, sure, why not? Sounds like you you only permit yourself to be the love e m hmm. Do you want to receive all of the affection You're not necessarily at this point willing to give anymore. No. No, I think they're exactly really. I think let me go with this, let me go with this, because I think I have a good read. I think you're exactly wrong. You are such

a lover. You give love, you give love. But part of being in love I'm a married guy, is allowing myself to receive love. Yeah, and that I just want to let that sit. You have to allow yourself to receive love. And it's something my wife and I have both gone through as we're both extremely independent people, and there will be times where I'm okay. It's so weird though, because I can receive love so well from my friends and my family because I know they're not going anywhere.

Does that make sense. It's like, I know my friends and my family will be in my life forever trauma from what happened to you, and it's not wrong that you're not over it. It's okay, and that's yeah. I want to hurt him, Yeah, give him, give us his name. Gavin and I. We're not doing anything after this show. We gotta open afternoons, buddy. A lot of people in my life, like they tell me, they're like, you are such a good friend, Like they're like, you're one of

the best friends I've ever seen. And I think that's why I love people so hard like I don't because it's like that's how much I want it's often a mirror of who you are. What you admiration for somebody is a mirror really of who you are. And yeah, and like you are somebody when you think of people who really truly deserve love, like you are one. You are you give with your heart, Amy, you are one too. You guys give with your heart. Just sex to sec But what do we do? What does she do? I

don't think there's anything to do. It's not a control thing. It's not I think it's just honestly, this sounds woo woo, but but it's a universe thing. Is that you just keep being you. Whatever is going on right now, you might not understand, but the proper person will find you, and you don't have to find them. I always thought I had to find them, like I would look up at the stars and be like, hey, that person's out there.

Where are they? I gotta go in this room. Maybe it's not I gotta go here, like, where are they? I gotta find them? And it wasn't. It was I didn't find them. A friend of mine tried to set us up for a month. We both said no, and he's like, I'm sick and tired of this I'm setting you guys up and then we're like okay, And that was the universe sort of just putting us together. And I believe that will happen for you. You're an exceptional human.

Keep being an exceptional human to your friends, to your family, and then also allow yourself to open up and be vulnerable enough to receive love. How long ago did that relationship end? That was the like five years ago? Wow?

So my thought on this is that somewhere in your subconscious guards or weapons or fences or walls, whatever you want to from that traumatic experience are still somewhat present, and maybe they show up and avoidance, maybe they show up in filling schedule so tight that you can't like, they might manifest in other ways that It's like, I've actually listened to a podcast last night about how trauma

shows up in ways other than just sleep terror. T I want to just acknowledge you for being vulnerable with us and opening up about this because I think a lot of our listeners will probably find themselves in you, and I'm want to get more into your story after we take a quick break back from break. My name is Brooks, like in studio with Mr Gavin Degras. Hello, our dear friend Tanya rad who I want to applaud.

I want to applaud you because she just sat here and opened her heart and I hope that our listeners can feel that and see themselves anybody going through the same thing. That's the point of this show is to try and positively impact the lives of our listeners, and we bring people in the studio that open up in our vulnerable So high five to you. I appreciate your girl.

So I think you're too hard on yourself. Really, I think you're you're trying to find this man, which I tried to because this is this is full transparent, this is from my story. I tried to find this woman almost like manifest like poof. I'm so I want this person so bad that I'm gonna make her be in this room or I'm going to try and make this person in the room fit into what she is. Um do you believe that you're sometimes a little too hard and you don't allow the universe enough grace to position

you in the place where you're supposed to be. I think I'm an overthinker for sure. And it's funny because I'll go to the place of I I do. I have such a strong faith, and it's really crazy because I will I when I meet somebody new, I'll pray on it. Like ill, that's the first thing I do, is I just like pray on it. And like the way that God has moved in my life and moved men out of my life quickly that weren't meant for me. It's truly like such a testimony. Like it's really crazy.

So when things end, I tend to get a little bit um Like obviously, I get upset and I get down, and then I get feel defeated. So then I give myself a beat and then I'll be like, Okay, I'm

good now. And then i'll like actively pursue and I'll like go to a bar and I'll be like I'm gonna meet somebody tonight or like you know what I mean, Like I go through these ebbs and flows where I like I'm really proactive or I'm or I'm like nodden in it at all, Like I don't know the balance of just like but you're not like praying in the bar, right because that would look weird, all right, I don't know.

I can only offer like personal experience So when I went through a life change, a pivotal life changing moment, in a big awareness moment in my life when I was twenty eight, the first thing that I kind of just stripped my life down to the foundation of I just want to accept and appreciate people. I want to live with gratitude, and then I want to accept and I want to appreciate people. And it it changed the

lens on how I looked at people. I didn't look at this person as that could be a potential mate, that could be a potential mate, that could be a potential mate. I looked at that's a beautiful human being. That's a beautiful human being. That's a beautiful human being. And then found that I was just gravitating towards and moving towards certain energies and it ended up eventually being I met Julianne about a year and a half later.

But I just changed my lens from looking for that person to just appreciating people as they are, and it really helped me connect in a way that I was never able to. And do you worry about finding that person or a girlfriend or a wife, I don't know what everybody's so worried about I think you do and you don't. I think I think that I want. I want what everybody else wants, sort of traditionally speaking, you know you want you want a real relationship, you want kids,

you want a household. Um. But sometimes sometimes I I also have to look at the reality of things. You know, you ever think you ever think to yourself, you know what I want. Here's where I always thought I wanted. I'm gonna have a ranch, I'm gonna have a bunch of horses, I'm gonna have the hottest wife, I'm gonna

have the strongest kids, you know what I'm saying. And then you go out and you look at a farm, and you go property, honey, and you take you get in the truck and you go out and you find a dream property and you hang out there for like an hour after the realtor leaves. You know what goes through my mind. I'm so fighting bored out here. Yeah, you know what I mean. I'm like, this is awesome. I'm so bored because it's but it's only here right now.

It's only one element of everything you want. It is it is only one element true Because I'll say this, you could be in a blank room with the person you love and have the best time ever. It's not about environment, Like I don't disagree with you there, but but you're right, there is only one element of the things that you love. But I've sort of removed the expectations of what it's supposed to look like to you

know what I mean? And and uh, you know, it's it's less about the picture I've painted where the pieces are supposed to fit into place. What if what if you thought about you don't find that person, you don't find that one husband. What if you so that's the ultimate scary thought. What if you think, Okay, I'm gonna maybe I'm going to meet ten people throughout the rest of my life that I fall in love with and

have relationships with. I think that I've I've come a long way in terms of like I too had like I would know what my wedding was going to look like and what my color my bridesmaid dresses were going to be. And now I'm like, so far, I've come so far from that perspective of like, this is what my life is going to look like and I have it all planned out. I don't and I don't even care about that stuff anymore. To be honest, Like if somebody says that, do you want to big or small?

I'm like, I don't know, because I think it's all going to depend on on the person that I marry, you know. But I do think that it's such a desire of my heart to have a teammate and to have a partner and to do life with somebody. So I will not change my perspective on that, um because I feel like when we get such like something planted so deep in us, I think it's it's a pursuit. It's almost like how I've pursued my career. Um, So I don't necessarily want to change my perspective on that.

And I do desire to have a family. So but what that looks like, I don't know, Like if if it's having my own children, if it's adopting children, if it's marrying somebody with children already, like I don't that might look different. But I know it's a desire of my heart so that I will have that. Well, we all have to face that that sort of that line, that's that dividing line of ideal versus real, and we all have an ideal, you know, in our in our mind. Oh,

ideally it could look like this. This is my fantasy. It's the thing we grew up with, not just the thing we grew up with, it's the thing we were sold, the thing we were marketed, you know, since we were kids. You know, what a family is supposed to look like, what the ideal homes would look like, what the ideal relationships of the parents would be like, and you know what I mean, like yeah, and so and so we've been given the the sort of formula of what it

should be. And of course that was made for TV, most of it, and or told to us at church, and you know, and there's reasons that those stories ended up in the Bible. You know, they were like good enough to tell you know what I mean repeatedly for many years. And so we had these ideas of what some of these stories should be with some of these relationships could be. And so we have to, of course, at one point or another, face the music in real life and say, well, this is it is liquid. Life

is liquid. Things are moving, and variables change, and we relocate and we get new jobs, and we get older and the many different things, you know, so came into my mind when was saying that as like Facebook and Instagram, you see everyone posting their perfect family and their perfect kids and their perfect relationship, and they're also full of He's right, come on, everybody's doing this and not everybody.

It's a generalization family photos on Facebook that Tanya has to look at who have terrible relationships, the husband's abuse. If that is true, and we are inundated with this perfection in our faces and it is not real. Yeah, but that's that's just if you choose to believe that's true. And like, to me, I can look at the funny and not believe something that's in your face every day, Brooks, Like, I get where you're coming from, and not everybody has

a perfect relationship like you. I don't. I don't, come on, you play, Come on. What I'm saying is you happen to have something that you both work really hard for. That's ideal. But people have to look at Facebook and see these images in their face, and you you do have that feeling of like everybody has this but me, but it is not real because I know those people

and I'm on the phone with them about their marriages. Well, here's here's my thoughts to that like, I didn't sign up to have a marriage where I didn't get photos to post on social media or beautiful photos. I actually signed up for the times that people don't see. That's the actual like truth. But that's that's you. Yeah, that's

that's you. You're a deeper guy. But what we're I think what we're saying is that we're sort of inundated with the optics of perfection that people are putting out in their private lives, which are actually complete falsehooge of what their lives really are, right, because we all we well, the reality is sort of like let's let's for for for hyperbolic speak, we all smile for a picture, right to look happy. So and that's what people essentially are

doing on social media. They're showing showing us their best and so we're all sold everybody's best. So we're hoping that. So we're thinking, oh, they look really happy, their life looks great. So that's sort of that's sort of the mountain that we're looking we're all looking at sort of a relationship wise. Why isn't it lining up, Why doesn't

it look like their private life. It's interesting because that's the number one thing that I get messages about is from girls being like, thank you so much for because I am a really positive person. I am honestly, I'm genuinely happy, and I choose to live my life that way, but I do there are moments where I get really upset and and hurt, and I expressed that like I'm like,

this sucks and I feel terrible. Well, I think part of your happiness is that you're you seem sincere, and you're okay with showing people the other parts of you. A lot of people don't show the other parts of themselves, and so they're suppressing those emotions and they're happy. I think that their overall happiness will suffer because it is

so guarded, do you know what I mean? And so I think that's part of part of your happiness is that you're okay with being very truthful about your your emotions. You're getting it out of your body somehow, you know what I mean. You're letting it out and you're sharing it, and so that's admirable. Yeah, it sucks. It's also very easy to criticize. It's I get that part of it too, but it's I'm also like, it's actually a lot easier

for me to kind of like lack at that. So I'm like, if you're going to make fun of me for wanting to like find a badass partner in life, like, don't ever apologize totally, don't ever settle anybody out there, don't ever apologize for that, and don't ever settle. I want to bring it back to um. One thing you mentioned earlier that I want to acknowledge is that you said you don't know what your wedding dress is gonna look like. Now you don't know if you want a bigger,

small wedding. You don't because I see myself in that. I see that I had a mindset of what my relationship an ideal as you said GAV was supposed to be, and I see you softening the grip on that and now it being like, I don't know exactly what it's going to be because this person. I don't know exactly what this person is going to be. Maybe we just alope, maybe we don't. Maybe we have a really big wedding,

maybe it's a Greek wedding totally. And like you, guys, if you would have met me like I was, do you watch friends? What's that the show. I'm just kidding. So like Monica Geller, I've seen I've seen friends Monica Geller with the like notebook. These are my flowers. These are going to be the center piece. This is what my dress is gonna look like. This is at Internet like I had it all. Is that what you bring

to your first dates? Yeah? I'm like, yeah, does this look like something that you would like to because it's that's fine. I was. I know this is switching a little bit, but I think one of the things we started with at the top that I wanted to get from Gavin and Brooks is is there an issue with in with women who are in powerful, successful, money making jobs as an issue in relationships? Great question? Um, not for me, but you know, I mean I have no issue with it. I mean, I don't see what the

issue is. So do you So what is the issue with that? Like my wife is so yeah? So the issue was sweet. I hung out with guys that make less money than me significantly and it did not work. I it did not work. It put me way too in the masculine. I hated having to bring out my credit cards. Oh I would love that. Are you kidding me? Buy me some coffee right now people they were more like friends. But it's like I remembered that friend. This is years ago and the way I felt, and I

knew this is not going to work for me. Now I think if you're close, you're fine, Like how big of a gap? Like you'd buy dinner and he'd like could I keep the change? Like they had nothing, But it was so in your in your mind, you don't think I started to feel like taking advantage of and it was the worst. I was like, I can't deal with this. Or did you feel like it was almost all about getting free free meals like that? So why do you think a man shouldn't feel that if he's

taking care of a woman. That's what I don't know. That's why I'm asking you, guys, why why is it okay for why? And I don't know if just traditionally because it's more masculine to take care of the woman. Like I went to dinner the other night on this like amazing romantic dinner and he sort of ordered for me, like he knew what I wanted, but he ordered and it was I loved every second of it. I was like,

oh my god, I love this. So there is something about that he was taking care of it like he wasn't. It wasn't like he asked me what I wanted, but then he ordered it and we're going to this and she would love this, and it was just so I felt. So I loved every second event. So maybe there is something to feeling feminine and feeling masculine. I believe that. But why does that have to come into or the question is why does does that specific to finances and success? About?

Like what about? Good question? Okay, so here's my here's my take on it. So when I was playing hockey, I was making more money than my wife. My wife is a very successful entrepreneur, actress, dancer, singer, you name it. She's a list goes on and on. But when I was playing hockey, I was making more money than her. Now that I'm not playing hockey and all of our podcast money is going towards Gavin's grotto, um my grottos matter, my wife is making way more money than me right now.

But I am actually fine with that. I love it because I love my wife and fully support her in everything she does. And for me to take that as a reflection on me of like, oh God, she's making more money than me. I think it's a selfish act of my own and an insecure act if I were to do that, and that is now making her career about me. And I don't think a lot of men on the words right now because you know that there was that time when you were more successful, and you

know that you achieved in your field almost the maximum. Yeah, but now I'm also I acknowledge that she's also worked hard, and I can't discredit anything she's done. She's earned everything that she's doing right now. I also believe that careers are cyclical, like I'm on now in a reinvention pivoting place in my life where I'm now stepping into like phase two. I've had almost first retirement from hockey and now I'm now I'm starting over from like the bottom

again and I need to build a new career. And so for me to now compare myself to her she's making more money than me, I think it's just an irrelevant thing to do. I think you need to look that. I also, so I was saying it's irrelevant. Sounds good,

that's great. I'll also say this as a disclaimer that I have money in my bank account that I can still do things for my wife even though I'm not making my salary, that I am playing hockey, so like when we go to supper, go out for a date night, like I love paying because I love treating her t Can I ask you a question, have you ever has your success ever been an issue and financial success with a partner somebody where you you were seeing has that

stress showed up in a relationship before? If I had to give to you, give you the honest answer. The last like serious relationship that I had, I wasn't this successful, like truly, I was making maybe half maybe a third of what I make now, So he was way more successful than me. This is my path. These are like I haven't been in a committed relationships since then, so I don't I can't accurately answer that. I think all your money on yourself since then? Pretty much? Yeah, just

just all me feeling. But but what I think selfish keep going, Um what I think I do think that it could play a part, But I just I don't know because I haven't really like dated anybody for a significant amount of time. So you would go on a date with somebody that makes less money than you yeah, Oh yeah, I have. And you'd go on a date with somebody that makes more money than you. Yeah, So what what questions do you want to us? Ask us? Men um, because you say it's kind of maybe played

a role, but not exactly. Sure, Yeah, and Amy you for sure you say it can't work where the woman makes more than the man. It would just be uncomfortable. I think it would be more uncomfortable probably for the person with less money than the person with more money. To be honest with you, I mean, I've been I've been in that position where I just, we know, was broke dating somebody who was just making a ton of money. You know, I felt uncomfortable, and I think I didn't.

I didn't think. I just felt broke. I didn't feel like I wasn't sufficient. I was just kind of uncomfortable going to really nice dinners like I don't belong here? Which hand do I hold the fork in? Here's what? Well, Here's one thing I want to say is that as independent and successful women that you guys are, you with that comes an inherent standard of living that you've now become accustomed to. And I love that you guys are able to provide that for yourselves, and I'm not speaking

for you too. I'm just putting a thought out there is that if you're able to hold yourself to that standard of living, that doesn't mean that any man or woman is also capable of holding you, flying you first class, staying in a five star restaurant or hotel. Maybe they're a school teacher and they pour their heart and soul into that, but their career just does not afford them

the same amount of money. So to hold any ill will And I'm not saying you guys do, but I'm just saying this for our community, to hold any ill will that you out earned somebody, Um, I don't think is is fair. It's not fair. I agree with that. Well, how about this though, let's let's point. Let's let's point not fair. So right, but I'm saying I think there are relationships where it causes problems. I agree. East. We were talking. I wanted this is our just dynamite engineer.

Mr Easton East Now right here, we were talking earlier about this and you said there was a stage in your life as the stage that I'm in right now, where your wife out earned you and it actually affected you. Well, yeah, like I Uh. I mean, I'm the I'm a breadwinner of the family from the vagant, but there there was a point not long ago where my wife was making more than me. And I like to think of myself as a progressive guy. I'd like to think that I'm

I'm an evolved man. But but I felt at that time, I felt like that I wasn't taking care of her, uh the right way, you know. And and there wasn't a problem in our marriage or anything, or we were married at that time, but like in a relationship, there wasn't a problem. But I could feel like my like ego go there by default, you know, like the cave man part of me was like, you know, like a woman need protection. I am not doing that now. And

that that's interesting, you know. So so a friend of mine is like, uh, a tough guy, you know, like like a professional tough guy, right and uh, and um, the woman he was dating was making him feel like, uh, he was not enough because he wasn't making enough money. Interesting, But I said to him, but you're providing. She's not paying attention into what you're providing, which is she knows that if similar were to break into your home, say even if multiple people broke into your home, it wouldn't

really be an issue for her because you're there. So there's things that you're providing being in that house that aren't money that she can depend on, and and you just need to let her know that that's your worth, that's part of your value. You're bringing a value. It doesn't have to be monetary. And so and I think that we sort of forget that we have sort of the these these other uh bank accounts of value. We

all have them, and it shouldn't be a number. It's interesting you said that because for me, it's not so much of a financial thing. It's more of like I feel like when somebody's making like if you if I'm dating somebody and they're so passionate and purposeful and like in their job, in their life, and like, to me,

that's so much more attractive. Like if he has that and he makes not a lot of money, like I don't, that doesn't it's more about like passion and drive, because I think sometimes if somebody's making not a lot of money and they hate their job and they kind of like, you know, kind of a kind of up I don't want to say, like moping through life to me, that question there that's a little bit like of a boner killer, you know, Like I'm like I don't want to date that,

you know, right, But it's more like not so much financial as like sometimes success is measured in different ways, you know, and what be Yeah, they can they can be giving you that other thing. I love what you said. He's so much. We're trying to just like we're trying to figure out why men think this, why men have this. What you said Eastern it's real. If if if a woman out earns a man, I think it is real.

Like even right now, it's not that I look and I'm comparing myself to my wife, but I'm like, okay, let's let's get up and go. I gotta do something, And just looking at myself, I'm trying to think, like why is that versus me just saying I'm just gonna chill for a while because i just made X amount of millions of dollars playing hockey and I'm just gonna coast. But there I could do that, just set that I

could do that. But there is something inherenting me that's like, wow, my wife is really doing these big deals, getting big projects, like I gotta get back going here. And I think it's just the I think men and women, but like I'm just speaking for men. Here's men inherently within their core and their hearts love to and yearn to provide, protect, love, empower all of that and so and part of that is financial. Undoubtedly a large part I think is financial.

And so it's almost impossible, based on our d n A or Janet or the fabric of who we are as a man um to not feel that. It's also the optics of it. I remember now, I had a flashback of being like at dinner with a couple of people when I was hanging out with these guys, and I remember saying, can you just take my credit card and pay the bill? Like I remember it was like I just don't want to just use my credit card and just can you pay the bill and sign it.

I literally hated the feeling of having to always be the one that's like, oh, let me do it. Here comes like the it felt manly, let me go with this for a second. So why why is that instead of like I really get gratitude out of like paying for this, like it's it's is it? Because I think it's because the energy with that person is not right.

I don't think it's something financial. I think it's It's what you're talking about, Tanya, is that if somebody loves their career and is lit up by it, even though they make for you because of the quality of person you are, and same with you, Um, it's measured, You're

going to measure it enjoy, not financial. I also think for women it can kind of be like sometimes like I feel like I could be motherly, not so much manly, just motherly, and I don't want to be a mom to my partner non episode or or But even even with that, the flip side of that is sometimes looking at man like he's your father. Yeah that is a

real thing. Oh it's gross, Like I'm the little girl Like no, no, it's like like you like sometimes I just got so the caretaker of the woman and you're like, yeah, that's but like sometimes guys do things that's because they love you, and a girl is like, you're not my dad. Don't do that. I'm like, I'm I'm not your dad. I don't want to be your dad. Or sometimes they do want their dad. I don't know. Now we're really

getting and I mean you're saying a little bit. I do want to date someone that's like my like has the quality of my father, but I don't want to date my father. So that's kind of perfect question for you, Tana, if you could speak to the men out there, the single eligible bachelor's or the men out there on how they would want how you would want them to approach you or not approach you, but like have an energy on a date. Knowing that you are a very successful

and independent woman, what would you ask of men? Let me answer this for you. I'm just kidding. I'm curious to what you're gonna say. You imagine I got this. Let no, let me do this for you. Just being very intentional. That's like my biggest thing with men is like being very transparent and intentional in regards to their feelings,

in regards to their their expectations, their purpose. Yeah, like I get obviously for a second date, like you know, you're just getting to know somebody, But beyond that, I think just kind of communicating and just being like also just like nothing is annoying to me more than saying, like what are you doing on Wednesday? It's like, well, let's like I feel like I'd love to take you out, you know, like, let's like actually make a little more assertive.

I think Tory and I were talking about this, but like I think man can be more assertive in some ways and but not dominating. Like you said when the guy ordered for you, like he'd asked you what you would want, like he'd like, we would like to have guy on the planet. I think I think men can do that in a really graceful and subtle way. And I think, like I love a guy saying like, what are you doing Tuesday? I'd love to take you to dinner?

And then the flip side, he does that for me and then I do it from him, like I want to show you my part of town. I'm going to take you on a bar tour of studio city? Are you in? Like you know what I mean, Like I think it takes I mean both people doing it. So when I hear you talk, I feel like you approach those like that because that's what you're back. So that's I'm I'm feeling like you are straightforward and transparent, be like I really like you. That does it ever put

man off? Does it ever? Like scared? Because because here's from from my standpoint, if I'm actually a good dude and I'm interested in that person, it's gonna draw me to them, and it's a great this is it's almost a great filter. If I'm just a dude out looking for whatever, I got nothing going on on Tuesday night, and maybe this girl's cute, and who knows, I'm gonna be like, whoa, I'm gonna text this other person or

something like That's probably what I'm gonna do. I think it's a great filter from a woman's standpoint, to not disclose or put out there exactly what your intentions are, but to be like, I'm really enjoying spending time with you, I would like to do this with you again, or can like there's this we always talk about this on the show. There's subtle ways to communicate directly versus overbearing

ways to throw things in your face. Yeah, and I feel like you do that, and any guy that's worth sitting at that table with you and that is actually really into you and curious and intrigued by you will respond to that and reciprocate that. Yeah. I mean, I think somehow the lesson of this is like everybody should be communicating. I don't. I don't disagree with that better, Like, yeah, if you just want someone for one night, like just tell him. I mean, right, But isn't it kind of

like an audition? I mean, I mean, we have you have you got You've gone on some auditions in your life, right, right? And what happens when you don't get it? Did they always call you in and say you didn't get it?

Or you know what I mean? It's sort of the silence is the communication in a way, and and and it's just I know, I know that sounds I know that sounds a little too raw, but the reality is it's it's I was doing that for years, sleeping around like that, Yeah, sleeping with guys, wanting more more, wanting more from them and not getting it. Be like why

did they want to date me? It's like, well, duh, Well I don't say duh on that, but okay, well for me that that was my experience because my situation is different whatever, But I still think it's like, really, I owe an email to a stranger who just like cold emailed me about something for work, But this guy had a relationship with doesn't have to call me. That's weird. It's just it's just it's not work. Though it's a bigail. I love how you. I love how you even though

I vehemently disagree with you take the other side. Sometimes I'm just being I'm just being Devil's advocate, you know. I mean, if if I go if I went to an audition right for something, you know, if I was an actor and I went on on on an audition, the casting director isn't going to call me up and say, hey, man, you didn't get the job. They just don't call you at all. You just don't get the job. And so here we are in the real world, right, and which

is the same thing. And if you're not getting the job, nobody's calling. I don't disagree with you the way it should be, but I'm trying not to be critical of the reality that sometimes they these people a don't think it's worth their time or be don't want to stir the pot. They don't want you to think, oh wow, what a loss. What a nice guy to call me and tell me he's not interested. That really would have

been a good one, you know what I'm saying. So maybe if they would have reached out and done that, you would have had that much more emotion for that person, because you'd be thinking, what a great one. I can't get them out of my mind now, boy, wow, I would have been really that was the one. It's easier for you to walk away when they're not contact on you, you don't think. So we can talk about this in the next episode, because that is a hundred Yeah, that's

we can get back to this. That's interesting to me because because I think it would be harder, I think it's worse. I know Brooks is dying. We have to go talk to you guys. Know wait, wait, wait, let go because she's too busy to have a conversation or a relationship. A little Tanya schedule is filled up and we can't have it. That's right, Tanya, we have time for fifteen minutes. She's wondering why no will marry her yet I take that back on part of our show.

I apologize to that. I just want to say, Tanya, I love you, and I just want to thank you for being a an amazing person and a source of joy in my life and opening up for our community and hopefully inspiring them to do the same. And I pray for you that you're able to allow yourself to receive love. Thank you quickly before we go. Where can pay? Guys, I'm here too, scrubbing in pod cast, Yeah, scrubbing in with Batellian, Tanya rad podcast and um every weekday morning

on there you go and your social Yeah. You do a lot of fun dance videos and just you put fun stuff out. You and Brad Grasky and I've never been invited to one, and I'm kind of sad about that. You can come to our next one. Oh God, you don't want me, but I mean I want to see this so much for being here. We'd love to have you on again. You're one of my favorite people of all time. You want you do another one? Right now? She's busy. Thanks by guys. Want to share something with

you that I absolutely love. This is luggage for modern travel. It's called Away luggage. It's a perfect suitcase with all the features that make travel the easiest. My wife and I were all over the map, are constantly traveling. You guys know that, and it's the perfect luggage for me. Away knows that everyone has a different travel style and that's why they make their carry on in an array of colors, two sizes and two different materials, a strong

and flexible polycarbonet and analyzed aluminum. And I've used both of them and both are fantastic. You guys get a one day trial on everything Away makes, take it on on the road with you, travel with it, roll around if you decide it's not for you. You can return any non personalized item for a full refund free shipping on any Away order within the contiguous US, Europe and Australia. For that loved one in your life. Away makes the

perfect gift. I use the carry on. It's a lightweight and durable shell that's made to last for a lifetime of travel. Remember, like Brooks said, the hundred day trial lets you try any Away product on the road. And you know, I like that because I can try it and be sure that I like it. It's got four three sixty degree spinner wheels that guarantee a smooth ride, t s a approved combination locks that keep your belongings safe.

It's got an optional objectable battery to keep your phone charged, and a removable laundry bag to separate dirty clothes from clean clothes. Just things like the Swiss Army Knife of uit cases. Wow, Now I use what's called the bigger carry on. It's similar to what Ryan has, except mine just happens to be a little bit bigger than his. And if you know what I'm talking about, you know that I'm saying that my suitcase is sized up to make the most of the overhead been I can imagine

you think I'd be talking about something else. Anyway, The suitcase is durable, it's easy to carry up and downstairs because it's really lightweight. And the bigger carry on also has the wheels that don't stick, the laundry bag for the dirty clothes, and a built in lock that t s A won't question. And with four kids, I'm generally not just packing for myself. I have some spill over. I have iPad stuffed animals, blankets, and it's good because I could fit my kids stuff in there too. Now

the whole family uses the way luggage. And what's really cool is we have different colors suitcases, so we always know who's is who's. It really limits the fighting. Obviously we still fight, but it's not about luggage. I traveled constantly for work, road trips to Tahoe, Carmel, Los Angeles, flights to Mexico. Manila, Alaska. The Away suitcase is designed

the last of lifetime, and that matters to me. I want something that is durable, great quality, and if anything breaks their way customer service team will have it fixed or replaced. You can visit the Away stores in New York, Austin, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Boston, Chicago, and London. I just went to the Away store and SF and got exactly the suitcase I needed for an upcoming trip to Europe.

For twenty dollars off of suitcase, visit away travel dot com slash h mt and use promo code h m T during checkout away travel dot com slash h mt. This is the perfect gift to buy for yourself or for someone else for the holidays. Away travel dot Com slash hmt. Another heater of an episode. I Love Tanya Man, I love Tanya. I just one of my favorite things, honestly, one of my favorite things in my life is my friendships with women, and I just want the world for them.

I have other friends that are women that are single, and I'm like, can I just somehow me a dude that would just like, oh my god. I just want them to have a Gavin de graw in their life. What a liar, this man, It's such a great liar. I did love tany Man. I loved her. I love her sincerity. Man. She was so authentic and really searching and so open is searching and so open about her search. You know, it was really uh, it was really kind of refreshing. It's it's super that's exact words on my mind.

It's super refreshing when somebody wears their heart on their sleeve and doing that, you open yourself up to some hurt. Right, There's gonna be some hurt and some rejection or whatever. But um, I think it's the only way to live. And I admire her for her courage, really for her courage. So, Tanya, we wish the best to you. Uh, single man, if you are a hell of a good dude, here's your number. No, reach out to me, reach out to me on my Instagram. I'll filter you as out and then I'll connect you.

But buddy, I love it. I love this podcast, man. I love what we're doing. I love and I hope you as a listener you're getting value from it. And we hope that in any way that sometimes the topics are geared to this or that or whatever, but we hope you're able to pull a nugget from each episode to positively impact the quality of your life. So, people driving in the car, the people listening at the gym at home, I want to say thank you to you guys as a listener, and also Gav we've got an

exciting announcement for those listeners. You know what it is we do. He doesn't even know it's You don't know it because mancy prompter in front of you like I do. Our engineer Easton Easton just wrote a note on my prompter that says we have a new voicemail account, so our How Men Think listeners can call in and leave us a voicemail with your question you want us to answer. The number is one eight eight eight four three zero seventy seven. Once again it's one eight eight or three

zero sevent seventy seven. So you can call in, leave us a voicemail with your questions will answer them on air. You can also send us an email at men at I Heart radio dot com and then on our Instagram How Men Think podcast. So lovely, guys, you got the hands on that nice chicken sandwich there, but it's pretty good, doesn't It looks tasty. I can't wait to touch on your mom. Yeah, the nice folks from Los Poyas Hermana sent over chicken sandwiches and I know what you're thinking,

that's the restaurant from Breaking Bad. Well, the restaurants come to life now Los Poyas Hermanus you can you can get it from Uber eats. Uh and you can have the a b Q Hot chicken sandwich, the fring fries. I've got some here right in front of me and the pios tenders just like they have on the show. And that's gonna be on Uber Eats, available in Los Angeles, and then it's moving on to San Francisco, Oakland, San Diego,

Las Vegas, and Chicago. And Uber Eats is offering one week or free delivery every month on all Los Poios Frmano orders during this six month partnership. So this is happening over the next six months. It starts, it's started started on so it's going right now. Uh So check it out. The sandwiches are really good and it's so much fun to um to have a taste of a show about making meth and have the have the restaurant

there with you. But that's why you have a Dured Gaves voice in the last thirty seconds, because he's a bunch in this doing. You see chicken and I've Got, it's got like it's got like a little buffalo sent to it, and it just makes me salivate. So that's where this episode ends. I'm gonna wrap, Thank you, guys. Until next week, guys, take care of one another, love one another. We'll see you right back here at How Men Think See You