I pitched stories for three decades, and I kept thinking my writings suck.
But it wasn't my writing.
I'm winning awards on Broadway, I'm winning Tony's, Obie's Drama critics, but I can't sell a script because they were Latin stories.
Man, what's handed? Man? You got mar Shin, Besmall Lynch.
Doug Hendrickson and Gavin knwsome and you're listening to politicals.
You're going to be, you're known to be. So look, man, I'm gonna tell you like this. I had an interesting conversation with this very smart gentleman, and he told me not to be speaking on shit and just let shit happen organically. And then all of a sudden I heard I'm being what is that ship called endorsed? I'm being endorsed by the fucking governor of California around for mayor
of Oakland. So you know, I don't know if how this how this uh, how wise this wise man is who told me to let this shit happen organically?
I told you.
I got a bunch of people called me, their potential opponents of yours, saying is this real?
What the hell's going on?
This is BS? I love mar Sean, but what the hell? You can't be serious about.
This like that? But I am, though, you know what I mean? Like, so, man, I be listening to these uh, these politicians and shit, man, and you know I ain't I ain't into all of that shit. But you know when I be listening to them talk and they be saying all this shit, and I be wondering, like, well, well, how much of that is gonna you know, I mean benefit people of color that look like me, like I don't never hear no plan on how that shit go.
And then they say a lot of bullshit that don't really mean nothing, but it sound good because they could formulate a sentence with all these big ass words that don't nobody understand. And I really just be looking at him like bitch ass y'all.
Well, gap, here's the deal. Remember we saw the guy in San Quentin. There's nobody better in Oakland to start with the youth of the city, in all parts of Oakland.
I mean the guy, the guy from Oakland that we met in San que Yes, that's.
Yeah, twenty five to life, two different paths, correct.
But my point is for Marshawn, there's nobody I know on this planet that can step into Oakland and know the soil and know the blocks, and know every corner store and every restaurant and every shop and every building in every high school than Marshawn. And what's better to start with having someone who knows everything about the city to fix the city.
What about figuring out the tools which you fix the city.
Understanding how government and governing work.
Well, that's that's part of your job.
As his campaign, I got a mother Yeah, I'm saying, I got a motherfucker who's sitting right across from me right now, who got the blueprint to this shit. It's like, come on, bro, you gotta quit selling me short.
Though I'm not selling you short. I'm just I'm just I'm playing devil's advocate. I'm just telling you what your opponents will. They're gonna come after you on this point. He has no governing experience. What the hell are we doing with an outsider, even if he's from Oakland and he's the insider as it relates to everything happening outside of city.
Hall, but not you know, I answer that question, yes, sir, teck me. I got the governor on my side. What you're talking about.
You know, it was our partner here's birthday the other day and we had some good.
Ye years old forty nine years old.
We enjoyed a good little boozy lunch. More Sean, we had a few drinks at tequila for you since we know you're on set in New Mexico and you can.
Man, I put one up for you. I had him bring me in a bottle specifically after I sent you to the happy Birthday, I went and had me and shot for you, big dog. You know what I mean, I really appreciate it, but I will tell you this much. Yeah, I mean on a more serious note. And y'all know
how I don't like to be too seriou is. But you know that whole thing with the mayor ship and all that, like you know, I mean, I got, I got excited as fuck, and I'm like, damn, you know what, you know, I might be able to make a change and do something you know, really uh really exciting for
you know, for my sitting and ship. And I was thinking to myself like, damn, you know what, man if I could get you know, the support and the love you know, I mean from Gavin and you know, really, you know, sit down and really get into this ship.
But then when I seen you come on set today and I seen that you had on some panda dunks, I was like, if that motherfucker was to come and meet me with them shoes on, before he could open, before he open his mouth, I would send that motherfucker right to god Damn shoe palace, uh pay less shoe store, Marshall's Ross and we would have to go and give a fuck if you came in some water marcuss. But we gonna get you up out of the pandas thought, my boy.
What about what about my Snoop? What about my Snoop sketchers with the with the dope smoke in the box.
You don't even have to tie them, you know what, I'm gonna just say like this, my boy fresh, you know I love the ship out of Snoop, But I'm gonna just say them, uh them are for health reasons. To the reason, and why you keep stepping in them like that? You got some you got some ship going on with your feet and your ankles and everything, so.
You can't bet down, You can't help you use fingers anymore.
You get a pass with those What the hell?
By the way. I'm serious.
I'm a little offended on behalf of Nike, my sponsor. What is wrong with these shoes?
What is wrong with It's not nothing wrong but the pandas though there. That's like, that's like, that's like a them, a one and done. You throw them on one time and then you you throw them motherfuckers away, donate them Salvation Army, uh Buffalo exchange, good will one of them type of ones like that. So after this you retire the motherfuckers. And then what we do is you let me know what's and then we get you on some right feats so you could be official.
My boy, what are you wearing right now? You're talking a big game. I want to see your damn shoes?
Man, Man, I got the I got the Baltimorees on right now.
I don't even know what the hell that is?
What is that?
You know? Some slight?
Damn I didn't know those are legit? Are you gonna wear those once twice? I'm seriously no.
Bs, No, I actually work out in needs all right.
Bill Moreshawn, real talk. We're gonna get our ten point agenda together. We're gonna have a meeting ten points tomorrow or Monday with me and the governor here and we're to get our ten point agenda talking points.
Childcare, healthcare, education, public safety, UH, redevelopment.
I'm talking about.
Parks and Rex and reck. I mean everything from just getting the hoops up with nets and refurbished to start there.
There should not be a basketball hoop that doesn't have a brand new day.
Well, there is an opening, right If you don't have a net, that means you don't give a damn about the community. You got to keep it.
I mean to me, it's a symbol, simple thing.
Something As I going to school and I don't see basketball net, I'm like, this is not a well managed school.
Marshaun, I got a specialist rate for you. Born in Bogata, Columbia, grew up in Queens. An unbelievable comedian, actor, producer, activist, icon from some incredible movies like Mulin Rouge and John Wick, one of your favorites. Let's welcome in the incredible John Leguizamo. Hey, Hey, he's happy about the Mets right now, isn't he?
John? Who is not happy about the Mets?
Were you there the other night?
Nah? I'm in DC putting up a play doing with some theater to what I'm doing theater. Yeah, I wrote my next theater pieces here at Arena and DC.
Gang as tight as.
John is not just like writer producer, I mean theater. That's where real actors come from.
Look, hey, Gavin, don't be bro. You ain't got to be a hater all your life. Gavin's okay, let it bring right.
I like hater. I like haters. They keep you fresh, keep you on your toes.
That's right, that's right.
John Marshawn thinks he's like a celebrity actor.
Now he's like, he's like he's getting into this.
He's filming right now in New Mexico, not California, which is all another conversation around.
Have that conversation. Have that conversation, right, business.
I know I'll watching on that.
Stay tuned in January, I'll be doing some good things. Get you back from New York, get back to California.
Hey, big dog, can you just tell me how to pronounce your mass name the right way?
No, No, don't try. You're gonna get and it's gonna hurt you.
That's all right. I'm here, all right.
If you're willing to take the risk.
Yeah, let me turn off speaker up directly ahead.
Leg LEGI, this is good, that's perfect. Ten minutes it goes away. It fades, all.
Right, I put it out there, I put the demo down, so I'm all good with that.
Well, you know, John, one thing that hasn't faded is your career, which is next level.
I mean, it is no BS like I thought.
We all kind of feel like we know you, uh anyone obviously that has been around for the last few decades. But it is a hell of a thing when you start adding up the number of movies, the incredible work you've done on Broadway one man shows and all these Netflix series, the thing you just did to MSNBC last year, and now of course we'll talk about PBS and this extraordinary work you're doing.
Gavin, I'm a big.
Hell of a career, brother, hell of a career.
Thank you.
So it wasn't easy getting here.
You know.
I was a problem child in Jackson and I's Queens during White Flight, which wasn't easy either because every white group that was leaving beat me up. But then all my Latin people came up and they beat me up too, so I could never get they must be maybe I'm the problem, you know, I could be the missing link, you know. And it was tough. This industry was not easy, man. It was not easy to be a Latin man in this industry, and I'm sure it wasn't easy being a
black man either. But you know, I persevered and I went to places that did accept me, which was performance ard in theater and comedy clubs where there was a little less systemic racism going on. Because Joe, when I when I started up, uh, there was a thing called the casting breakdown every Monday, and it would tell you what rows were available. It was like Jim Crow a little bit because it would be white lead, white romantic,
white doctor, white lawyer, Latin drug dealer. And even if you asked your agent, even if you had a big agent, and you asked, can you please let them let them I want to do my monologue ball them, Well, they won't see you. They won't see you because they said white guy. So you know, it was it was like that. So you know, I knew this system was rigged against me. So I was gonna have to try to find my opportunities wherever I could find them.
But John, you've been calling out, I mean for as much as changed, not a lot has changed, right or do you feel like that's it's beginning to change. I mean you've been you haven't been shy calling this out, the lack of progress as it relates to representation, as it relates to opportunities.
I mean it's it's you know.
For as for as much progress as we've seen, I think people are surprised to see how few lead roles, particularly for Latin and latinos.
Yeah, I mean, Gavin, that's a great question because things are better, but did not better enough, because Latin people are twenty percent of the population but with less than five percent of the leading roles, with thirty percent of the US box office sometimes even more on the big
hits for almost forty percent. Sometimes that's a huge amount of money that were given the industry and only getting five percent of the leads, one percent of the stories being told, less than points zero something of the executives. That's not parody, that's not equity. That's not fair, and it's not like we land people just got here. This has been going on forever. Man. When the founding fathers of Hollywood got to LA in the early nineteen hundreds,
it had just been Mexico seventy years prior. They walked into an almost Latin city, almost completely Latin city. Of course, it was kind of apartheid because Latin people and Black people were segregated, We were redlined, We were being experimented on. Latin women were being sterilized against their will and not against their knowledge, lynchings against Latin and black people. You know,
Latin people are being shot, burned alive. I mean, there was a lot of terrible things going on when the founding fathers came, but they didn't even think of, oh, let's include the culture that's right here. They didn't, and it didn't you know, it's been going on for you know, for the beginning, since the beginnings of Silent Film.
And John I'm curious, I mean, in your own exploration of all of this, and as you dove much deeper with so many of these projects in the last few years, were you even surprised at how bad that history was to uncover it. I mean, you talk about lynchings, we don't typically connect that to the Latino community.
You think about the African American.
Beauty sterilizations, as you say, and the redlining, which is so sort of dominant in our least culture that it's predominantly an African American issue. Were you surprised to the depths of that kind of discrimination.
Yeah, I mean, obviously black people have had it much worse than Latin people. You know, it's not a competition, and I'm not trying to make it that over nine thousand black people were lynched more for us, it was six thousand Latin people, So you know, it's lesser numbers. But you know, you know, the second most brutalized by the police are Latinos. The second largest ethnic group in jails are Latinos. You know, the lowest paid worker in
America is a Latin woman. You know what I mean? Yeah, you know, finding out these facts of the horrors that happened to Latin people, because you wonder, we've been here forever. It's not we just got here, the smith that we've just got here. No, we keep coming, but we've been here forever. And why aren't we at a higher place? Why and we are at top of the pyramids somehow?
Well because of all these things, you know, our land wealth was taken from us, our political power was taken from us, you know, and we were segregated.
You know.
The first case bought in America against segregation was the Latin family, the Maestas family in Denver, Colorado, in nineteen eleven. The first young boy lynch in America was a Latino boy in nineteen fourteen, a fourteen year old Antonio Gomez, for respecting a white man in Texas. The first woman lynch in America was a latinas Joseppa Segovia during the Gold Rush in California, because a white minor raped her and she shot him, but because she wouldn't show remorse,
they lynched her. So yeah, we let people have experienced a lot of oppression, and that's probably why. Also it's not in history textbooks, because you put that in history textbooks, then you've got to give us political power. You gotta respect us, You got to give us something back for our contributions in making of America.
Marshaw. And I imagine a lot of that resonates with you.
Huh, Yeah, dude, considered in our history. And I mean, you know, and I think especially in California. I mean, I'm not sure it is all through California, but I know in northern California, like I fucked with my meagles, Like, I got a lot of a lot of uh fucking primos that I just I resonate with that I fucked with like so I mean, and then you know, they
grew up in the same neighborhood with us. It's like where I lived out on fifty fifth and foot Hill, it was what they called it, uh, the Green Apartments, which was where the Blacks was at, and then right next door it was the Mexican Apartments. And I mean, you know, the same struggles that that we were dealing with,
they was dealing with it as well. And I mean just that area alone, it was it was the ship was tough, but it was also you know of hard workers and individuals who you know, I mean held family to a standard where you know, I mean, and we started to see like when they called the fucking police, they would come to both apartment buildings, and that ship was young. I mean, it was something that you know,
I mean our witness growing up and I've seen. But you know, when you start speaking to the you know, the history of Latin culture, like you know, they don't teach that in schools and they don't tell us too much about that. And now you start to see like they're even starting to erase, like you know, the black the black history of all of that ship in school.
It's crazy to me because we're sitting here with the governor and it's like, Bro, you act like you don't know that that ship going on, Like who the f I know them? Ship has come across your desk. When you see that ship, I think you got to think in your mind, like, oh ship, John and Marshan wouldn't approve of this ship. We can't let this we.
Got I mean, it's as John was just saying, it's c rt uh ESG, it's d e I.
Anything with three damn letters.
It seems to yeah, man, the alphabet boys.
Man, no, it's but man, no, this is but it's a real it's a real thing.
You're right.
They're trying to rewrite history, censor historical facts. They were John's well aware, and in Florida a couple of years ago, they actually had textbooks that were changed as it relates to the civil rights movement with Rosa Parks, and they took out her race as if her race was relevant in the context of the civil rights movement. But John's going a deeper point which is it's one thing to censor those historical factor to rewrite history, but a lot of the Latino history was never even written.
There's not even a lot to a race.
And I imagine a big part of what you're trying to do with American historia and others is really start to tell that story so that we can get our history straight.
Johns Hopkins University and you need those US did a study and found that eighty seven percent of Latino contributions into the making of the US are not in history textbooks and the thirteen percent that is gets the less than five sentences. So yeah, what I was trying to do with my show, The Until History of Latinos on PBS was to correct that, to stop the erasure, the crossing out, the deletion of our contributions, because you know, it's systemic, and when we Latin people don't know what
we've contributed, we have less power. When other people don't know our contributions, they have less respect for us, and then things can happen like being demonized, like Trump demonizes us and says he's going to deport ten million or more Latinos. That's a horrible that's a horror thing for me. I mean, because how you're going to police that, You're going to profile all Latin people and even American citizens, which has happened in American history. It's not the first time.
The Repatriation Act in the nineteen thirties deported two million people, more than half were American citizens, and they sent them to Mexico. And these people had never grown up there been there. They didn't even speak Spanish, but they were all Latino. They were profiled. And then happening in the wet Back Act in the nineteen fifties to the seventies, a million Latinos would deported and half of those were American citizens.
So I'm afraid the same thing's gonna happen if Trump gets elected.
If I make sure they really they really had an act called the Wetback Act.
Yeah, can you believe that shit? They have the audainy. It could have been the Greaser Act, it could have been the Spick Act. I mean, it was horrorful.
What year was that, John, the Wetback Act? I can't even believe that.
Nineteen fifties governmenteen fifties.
Okay, Yeah, So John, go let me ask a question. Growing up in queens. You're a fighter, it's been it's been known. You had to go fight, you had a scrap. Were you always the guy to your friend group that had the voice?
You hit?
You do? Now?
Did you realize back then you were the guy that obviously threw the fist, which I appreciate, But did you also have the voice to get your crew together to try to fight against what you dealt with?
No, let me let me make you a little correction. I wasn't a I was in a lot of fights, but I was on getting beat up.
I want a few of them, but I didn't win a lot of them. I got beat up a lot.
Well, by the way, By the way, John Gavin did too, he got bullied. He had to move. So haven't got beat up too. Marsham Marchean might have been doing the Marcia.
He didn't understand what the hell we're talking about.
And they share they share some uh some I think junior higher stories when they was a victims of bullying and they didn't fight back. No, I thought that.
I thought that's why I got beat up, was because I fought back and I never backed down. I don't know. I guess I was looking for I guess I was looking for for for not shutting up or saying sorry or whatever. I never I never backed down. But yeah, you know made me strong. You know, if I hadn't grown up the way grew up in Jackson and Ice Queens, which was all white flight, but all Latino populations were there and black people, and we all grew up together
in the same kind of problems. It made me strong. And I had community, you know, I black and Latinos. I felt, I had joy, I had laughter. I had problems as well, But yo, it's shaped me, and Hollywood can't hurt me. It cannot hurt to begin to hurt me, you know what I mean. So that's why Hollywood to me, it has always been hollywooden. But I've seen the problems in Hollywood. I've been in this business for four decades, and I saw what was going on. I saw what
was going on, you know. I mean it wasn't okay. I mean, I pitched stories for three decades and I kept thinking my writings sucked, But it wasn't my writing. I'm winning awards on Broadway, I'm winning Tony's Obie's Drama critics, but I can't sell a script. Because they were Latin stories. And no matter if I wrote like William Goldman, if I wrote like Tony Kushner, they were not going to green light a Latin project, you know what I mean. They were just never going to They never saw the
value of Latin content. But now, luckily, with data and this digital revolution that we're in, is the best time to be a Latin person because now we got metrics, and when we have metrics, we Latin people win because you can't deny us, you know, facts, like like in baseball, you know, you see all these lad folks playing because you can't deny stats. And music we killed because you can't deny sales. But in show biz and in corporations and in tech industry, they can do that for jobs.
They can do that because they can say it's it's all opinion based, it's all bias based, it's it's not based on fact.
Was there a moment where you really found your voice? I mean, was it, uh, you know it was years ago or there was there.
Sometimes a lot of shame and regret that you didn't find that voice earlier.
Well, I don't have shame and regret because I didn't know what was going on. I just assumed that if you're a Latin man or a Latin person in America, you weren't going to get very far. You just score. And I mean when I was in NYU and I was a student paying the same tuition as Andrew McCarthy and dB Sweeney, they were going to five editions a day. I was going to win every five months for a drug dealer or a murderer or janitor. I knew. And I was idealistic, young man. I believe the meritocracy. I
believe talent would win the date. But it wasn't. So no matter how talented I was, I could have been as good looking as Brad Kidd, I could have been as talented as Brandea, I was not going to get a job because I was a Latin man. And that I became very apparent, you know what I mean. So I had I didn't want to give up. But I
know a lot of people gave up. I saw a lot of dreams that got wasted and thrown away, and people's lives that derailed because they believed in the American dream that wasn't for them.
So John, one of my favorite movies of all time, Carlito's Ways. She kind of went from a stand up comedy right, and you got that? How did you get the role in Carlito's Way from being doing stand up comics?
Well, my manager at the time, who was a horrible human being.
Hey, Marshawn never by the way, Marshawn never called me as your main agent at home.
No, he was a horrible crook and a harble person.
But he met well and uh, you know he he he saw me, and they saw me do my comedy stuff and then on on HBO, and they offered me the role and I turned it down a lot because I was sick of playing drug dealers and I didn't want to denigrate with my people.
But then when they offered it to Benicia, I took it.
Interesting hold on so because the past, ah, the past? So was that one? Was that before this? Or was that after that?
Was that was after?
That?
Was after? That was ninety seven and and Carlos Wave was ninety three.
Man, I look, I'm a look, I'm a fan of a girl in min She she turned me on to the past, and I'm like, what the fuck? Like this ship is like, this motherfucker is crazy. But then I so like from The Pest to fucking to the Menu, just like the range that you have and when you speak about you know, the talent, and it's like there's there's no denying that. You know, you're a talented motherfucker.
But you know what i mean from from me, like watching that and then seeing uh the Menu, I'm like, god, damn. But then I remember what was that? I think spawn and I'm like, oh yeah, yeah yeah, So I'm like damn, you know, I mean, you know, I don't know if you would call it like uh, I mean, I know it's a superhero movie, but uh like to see you in that kind of role, like there's no denying your talent.
Uh well special you are. Like. But I mean, once I've watched The Pest, then I'm like, oh, yeah, he got me hooked line and sink, like you know what I mean, where else where else can I go and watch this motherfucker? What else can I see? You know what I mean? See him doing this thing? Like that ship turned me up and I'm like this is some there's some there's some some some some good ship.
Yeah that was some crazy ship. I didn't that, I mean, I was I was mad caffeinated because I don't do drugs anymore or you know, so I was it was all just capping soda, coke, sugar. I had to keep my energy level so high to keep that that that thing. Basically, the Past is the big Game where a great White hunter is looking for a trophy animal. But we made it this great White Hunters looking for a Puerto Rican to put on his mantle.
Yeah.
No, I mean it's a fantastic movie.
I agree with sew Hey, John, did you do?
You started out and it was comedy the goal, and then all of this was sort of an evolution from the.
Comedy or what when you were a kid? I mean, what what was the what was the pinnacle of success for you?
I mean, did you see yourself as a comedian, as an actor, as a direct I mean, you know, you're you're filling the blank right now and every every single way you've you've done it produce, Seen the and the like. But was comedy the bedrock?
Yeah?
Comedy was what got me through my you know, painful childhood. I come from a lot of uh you know, uh child abuse and and whatnot, just violence, and uh, you know, comedy helped me, you know, watching Richard pryor watching Evident Costello, Martin Lewis. I ate up all the comedy and I would go like I was. I was a ghetto nerd. So I would go to the library, the the Museum of Television Radio and watch Flip Wilson, watched the old
Ernie Kovacs, and I studied them all man. And and to me, that was when I got freak on Broadway. That was it, man, That that to me was the pinnacle of my life in so many ways, because I felt like I helped change comedy in America, because the comedy at that time was kind of light and kind of glib and kind of shiny, and I brought a lot of pain and uh and sexuality, and you know, I introduced the jizz comedy, that something about Mary you
saw that an American Pie and all that. But I was doing all that on stage, you know, put in my imagine every dick and Sandwiches playing with spooge all over the place. So there was a lot of stuff I was doing in this crazy show. But there was everybody was coming to the show, you know, Michael, you know, Michael Mayer, Robin Williams, rest in peace, you name it. Everybody was at that theater. It was incredible on Broadway and I was Tony nominated for a Writer and Performer. I lost.
So you kind of win it and carved your own lane. Yeah, you had to had to respect.
There were the ages back then. I know you called your manager a horrible manager? Were the ages back then? Did a lot of them? Pigeonhole? Like, did you guys have like a subset of managers that dealt with latinos and and this and that?
Or was it?
Did you have a lot of people to pick from?
I think I had had a good group to pick from.
I did. I mean, I got a great manager now, but the one I had back then was his fingali uh, you know, like a trickster. You know, he did a lot of underhanded stuff, like taking fifty percent of my HBO salary for my one man's shows and telling me that, you know, if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't have gotten never got it. And so like I was young and stupid, so I was like, yeah, okay, yeah, I guess that's a trade off.
Fifty dug my age alone, and I was I was fucking head over. He was like, why you get three percent, like what you're really doing, like saying you I ain't even ever even seen you throw a dn bood alone catch run, Like why are you getting so much? How are you getting so much? Doug Hey, we gonna have to go and talk about this. And Danny then he's sick that will from me his wife and she had
to break some ship down for me. And I'm like, uh, you know, I like you a lot, you know what I mean, I got a lot of respect for you. But three percent, God damn. And to hear that you was getting hit to here, you was getting here for fifty life.
Oh the entertainer b business is different. They pay way, they pay way too much, right John, Yeah.
I mean you know, I mean most of us, all the big timers. You know, you only get about a quarter of your salary because you've got ten percent agent, ten percent, manager, five percent, lawyer five percent for a business manager, and you know everybody else on on pay roll. So in taxes, I've had fifty percent tax brackets so in New York. So yeah, I get about twenty five percent of everything I make.
Well, we like to blame a lot of shit on gas, so you can blame put.
Too.
Yeah, not just yeah, New York and California.
We share a little bit of that in comment on the at least for you two that are on screen, well, with all three of you hold out, I'm the only I'm the public servant on this podcast.
I'm kind of like a public service.
Really really sorry, John, I don't buy that.
No, No, I get paid.
I get paid.
You doing all right?
By the way, just you know what was the you know it's and I've just watched a lot of but a lot of the episodes of the MSNBC you did. I guess it was a year ago. Feels like right right yesterday and now with PBS, what did you I mean you wake up and say, you know what, I got to take this to the next level and just start educate people at a broader a in a you know,
more broadly. Or is it because the politics of the moment that has sort of shaped your desire to do these projects or was this sort of again a natural part of your journey that for decades you've been expressing uh and understanding or a desire for other people to understand the history of Latin culture.
Yeah, Gavin, I think it's a confluence of both things. You know, am I getting to be sixty years old? You know, you get to a point in life where you go, what what am I doing? My Life's what's the point of my life? And I feel like at the point of my life is to make this place a better place than when I came into it. And also, you know, all the things that happened in Black Lives
Matter and and COVID and all that. You know, it just like it took it took me years to get the PBS, five years a little bit more than that to get it to this place. You know it it wasn't easy. But I felt when I read these facts. When I read these facts, it just blows my mind that and I felt like, oh my god, I can't be the only person who knows these facts. The world needs to know that we Land people are the only ethnic group that's fought in every single war America has
ever had. Ten thousand unknown Latino patriots fought in the American Revolution. We helped fund the American Revolution. Two million dollars were given to George Washington from Cuba, Mexico and Spain. So we are we Land people as sons and daughters of the American Revolution. Twenty thousand US fought in the Civil War, one hundred and twenty thousand of US fought in World War five hundred thousand Latinos fought in World War Two.
That's a huge.
Sacrifice to the making of this country. We have sixty Medal of Honor honorees. That's the most of any ethnic group. But do we get credit for that? Do we? Do you see us in movies?
Do you?
I mean, it's crazy how erased our contributions are.
It is amazing. Hey, Hey, John, your Emmy speech a couple of weeks ago is incredible in Hollywood? Do you feel that it seems like every Oscars or Emmys or award show people stand up and say something. But do you see the other three or sixty four days a year people fighting and doing what you're doing, or just giving their speech? Not you, but other people giving their speech and saying what they have to say? Are people
living it daily? To help out with what you're doing now and other causes for other people?
Oh?
You know?
Uh? That? So how do we know?
And John, how do we make that change? We've got more Shawn as an actor, now, how do we make that change?
Well, you know, it's hard.
I mean, when you when you start speaking up there, it's not consequence free. There are when I started getting political, you know, I lost half my followers and it's got so much hate. You know, people go back to they say, go back to Mexico. If you don't like our country, go I gladly go back to Mexico. I'm not from Mexico and I love to visit. But you know, they say all kinds of crazy things that tys telling you
you suck as a comedian. You're boring now. I mean, whenever you start doing that, they hate and you lose the followers. So there is a consequence. So I understand why other people are reserved. It makes you know it's they're tend to tain, you know. And but you know, I feel like I'm older. I'm an elder. I see what's going on, and so what was going on? I can't you can't pull the wool over my eyes.
I know.
I know what the stats are, I know what the reality is, and I'm not going to shut up till I have parody for my people. You know, till till twenty percent of those were Latino, When twenty percent of those executives when twenty percent of the stories. I don't want thirty percent, which is what we over indexed at the box office. I just want we're twenty percent of the population. I just want twenty percent across the board. And I don't want it just in Hollywood. I want
to in tech. I want it in banking. I wanted in corporations. I talked to a lot of executives across America and Latin. People tell me, yo, I'm good enough to train somebody who then gets promoted over me, but I'm not good enough to be promoted. I hear that all over the place.
Joe, when did you start getting political?
When did you really when you started getting that negative feedback, when you really started realizing this is going to come in a price.
You know, I was always socially conscious, but I wasn't politically activated until I think. I think it was Al Gore when I started feeling like, oh my god, I got to start. When he lost and his peasants he was taken from him, I was like, I can't, I can't be quiet. Democracy is not a spectator sport. You got to participate, and you got to put out tons of effort to keep it a democracy.
Amen, Justice Brandeis.
I love the way you described said the most important office in a democracy is the office of citizen. This notion of active not inert citizenship, man, active participation, which.
I just love that.
It's not just about election days. It's what happens after and what happens before. It's everything in between. What you know right now though. Man, with an election, I don't want to get hyper political.
But man, it's then you get it.
But but we're talking about but Marsia, you're talking about history repeating itself. Man, back in Hoover days, about everybody being kicked out. You got the Wet Back Act, You've got all and now here we are. We thought we made all this damn progress in this country Californi, Marshawn. We're almost forty percent Latino California. It's a majority minority state, the most diverse state in the world's most diverse democracy.
It's a deep point of pride and it's a principle which we're founded on, which allows us to thrive and be the fifth large damn economy in the world. Latinos in this country, by the way, about the fifth largest economy in the world just from a GDP over three point six plus trillion.
Damn do cap T T.
But right now there's another guy with a capital T that's scaring the hell out of everybody in this election. And we're talking about mass deportations, We're talking about mixed status families that are scared to death, we're talking about poisoning the blood of this country. And vermins the language. Man, I mean, you're you're kind of a mini historian now with all these there's documentaries you've been doing and all the work. I mean, this rhetoric is about as bad as it's ever been.
Right, and hate crimes as Latinos are up a big surprise when he says stuff like that. I mean, you see veterans getting beat up in bars and stuff Latino vets because they tell you don't belong in this country. And then you know the vet is going on. But I thought to you and then pow pal. You know it just it's he brings so much violence into our country, so much hate that's unnecessary. I mean, decency is what we all want, pieces what we want. Togetherness is what
most people want. But they're sold because he's a big liar. He's such a liar that people believe what he says, and he says he's going to bring jobs back in production backs, and he's making all this stuff up. He doesn't care, he wasn't doesn't want to be fact check because he's making it all up. It's all bullshit, but people buy it. People believe it. People believe the bullshit.
Which is you know, begs the question, you know we talk about I mean, there's books now being written about it, and let's hope history is not going to be written about this in a few weeks. But talking about the fact that Trump and trump Ism is somehow and.
He's making roads in the Latino community.
I mean, is it because you just think just the rank lies or do you think get a combination of that and just economic issues, which are bread and butter issues.
Always I think it's a common way for some reason, this inflation of the prices of goods, food and gas and housing. It affects Latin people because we're kind of at the bottom of the economic food change, so they're very effective by it. And Latinos care about, you know, feeding their families, and Latin women care about that. So who do they blame the person who's in office, you know, and Trump, you know, with all his magical speak, his magical thinkings speak of how he's going to fix everything
and cut taxes. Everybody believes that that he's going to bring production back and bring jobs and stop China this, and you know, it's it's they believe, they buy it, they believe it. So it's kind of tough, man. I don't I don't think Latin people are really flipping totally Republican. But he gets them, you know, obviously they We're not a monolith, and there's a lot of a Christian Latinos,
Evangelical Latinos, conservatives that we have them, you know. But from his rhetoric, you would think everybody would be just against him, but they're not. You know, the black community is aw some somehow moving up towards him too.
Yeah, they split. I think they could. They got they got turned on from out of the edd, the PvP and all of that shit.
All.
Yeah, Trump, don't give us some money.
Yep, yep.
We need to get Trump back at office so he could give us some money.
Uh huh.
When he started putting his name on those checks, people thought it was from him.
And they believe that I've heard that people say, oh, but when he gets to be in office, we're going to get more of those checks that he signed.
They really believed that his scams are sometimes they do work, they don't always work.
But something there, John, you buy one of those hundred thousand dollars watches? You got one of those?
I'm saving up for the Bible Trump.
Also, somebody just sent me a picture of that. He got a watch and some and some shoes or some hundred K for the watch. Brother, What the fuck is that about.
I've got my pandas on right now. But if I come in with some Trumps.
Then I might sparkle kick your ass right in the chest.
Hey, John, I was down in Mexico for the swearing in of the first one. And you know, I mean the Western we haven't had North America. We haven't had a woman sworn in. And I was with a good friend of yours, Rosario Dawson, who was down. She was down there film in a couple of days. But you you were one of the early founders of Voda Latino, right, were you there in the beginning.
I was, I was helping, I mean I was I was always an ally to Rosario and my interest to Kumark for what they're doing, because they're brilliant, man. I mean, they really do the real work and very little of the money goes to them. It all goes right into groundwork, a grassroots organizing. You know, it's amazing. It's amazing what they do. And this woman is incredible, man, I mean, this woman president, she's I just find her so exciting,
so progressive, lifting Mexico into the future. Mexico is doing incredible economically. Uh. And then you know, she called out. It was amazing. She asked Spain to apologize for the destruction of the aspects, the Incas and the Mayas. It was a amazing that And you know what the I think it was a Minister of culture. I can't remember exactly the dude who wrote the letter and said, you are an illiterate. We will never apologize for those horrific tribes.
Now they always two apologies, one for that fucking letter and then one for the conquest.
And by the way, the conquy, I mean you going back just you know the PBS series, which, by the way, you have a bunch of great you know, people like Rosario doing some of the narrative work, Edward Daman almost some others.
Next level. I mean you go back to that. You go back you're walking down.
Tunnels, You're finding all this gold and all this poisonous you know, mercury or something. You know, this was a hell of a like you said, five years, I get why it may have taken you five years. It was a hell of a journey you've been on with this thing.
Oh yeah, you know, it's incredible.
Man.
I went to you're talking about Tao t Wakan.
Yeah, it's easy to pronounce, man, last name bro.
I had a practice, had a practice. It don't come that easy, you know, we're talking about this. This tunnel was the first one. It's just been discovered. It's it's over two thousand years old. And they found, you know, turquoise from Arizona. They found jade from Central America. So we were doing trade all up and down South America and the Americas. These were these were incredible empires, man. They were bigger than European empires. Thirty three million Incas,
thirty million aztect million Mayas. They had running toilets with water, water flushing toilets before any country in Europe they we invented rubber, which in galvinization, Goodyear took credit for something he ain't do. And the Incas had binary code. That's how they kept their senses before computers. They had suspension bridges, they had anesthesia. They had brain surgery that was more successful than anything until a Civil war.
I mean, who knew, Marshawan you know all that stuff?
Man, Hell no, Look, I'm sitting over here like I'm watching the Discovery Channel right now. This motherfucker dropping so much motherfucking game, Like, God damn, this is an opportunity. Shiit, Just just give him a mic and lett him go, because Shiit, I feel like I'm gonna be at least five to ten percent smarter after this, after this show. So she keep going, big dog, it's any more facts you want to say it out, I'm here forward, man,
She had keep educating. So now of your work, not I'm a fan of your work, but.
But what I appreciate about you, John, And it seems like the guests we get on the show are very similar to you and Marshaun because you've always led, You've gotten it. Marshawn has been the same way your vocal you stand and again life is We always say life is short. We're on barrow of time. And if you don't speak your voice, John, then what are we doing? Gavin? I just had to hit a birthday. We're not as old as you yet, but we almost there.
And so oh thanks a lot for that shout out.
Yeah, hello the two.
Brother Yeah, I'm sixty four.
You couldn't you couldn't look at him.
But anyways, the point John's we're on bar times. I love the way you're living. And let me ask you a question. What's next for you? I mean, the PBS stuff is so next level? Are you back into acting? Are you on Broadway now? But I mean, what's the next steps for you? The next few years?
Uh? Yeah? I got an amazing movie coming out in April called Bob Tabbino Likes. We won the south By Southwest Audience Prize and Jury Prize. It is such a beautiful, feel good healing film. Roman crying oh my god at every screening.
A little different than John Wick John, Yeah.
John Wait makes you crying a different way. This was a healing movie. There's no beating up, there's no hitting. And then my play, My play is the biggest thing I've got right now. You know, I wrote this hoping this will be an American classic based on a true crime that happened in Long Island in the nineties.
And what and you're you're literally in the middle of that right now, right.
Yes, sir, we go up. October eighteenth is my first performance.
And what is it?
I mean, is is there any having made it in your life or career? Are you just gonna be You're gonna you're gonna You're gonna run this thing through the tape?
No ninety yard dash here, huh.
No, man, I mean the lovely thing about acting is that you can go on till.
Till they pull they take it the hook and they pull you up.
You can.
People have died on.
Stage, you know. I mean, I don't want to die in the dage.
But yeah, yeah, And what about and what about the producing and the and the directing. I mean, is that is that it doesn't does that have the feedback loop that being on there one man's show and just being out there all just exposed?
The I mean is how do those things compare?
Oh?
Wow, wow, it's so different. I mean, being on stage by yourself is so powerful. To have a whole entire house about fifteen hundred people every night for six months. Uh, you know it's quiet. You can hear pin dropped and they laugh, especially for Lamb. People becomes like church because they're crying, laughing, screaming, talking back to their home watching TV.
It's a beautiful experience. Film is different, obviously.
Film is about, you know, hitting some acting highs. You know, it's an acting high. You're just trying to hit these these beats. But stage and live performances like Church.
Because Doug won't he won't let that ship die down at all. But I have been, uh, you know, getting into my acting bag a little bit. Is there anything that she would tell me, just as far as like, I mean from my biggest thing is like when I get them scripts and then I see all them lines and ship like oh shit. Yeah, Like, is there any advice you could give to me? Just like just like grassroots, you know what I mean to you. I mean to keep me going and keep my mind right.
Yeah, yeah, man, you can make it. I mean, nobody starts out great in acting, man. Every everybody works their ass off to get to to this place. Brandle worked his ass off study with the best teachers, so did James Dean, so did Mark Ruffalo, so did Trump, and everybody study all the great studied the near Paccino. They studied hard, so they nobody's born naturally a acting, you become one.
Uh.
So I would say, get a great coach. I would say, read out life out as much as you can, like get a script that you love from a movie, and and learn those monologues and practice it all the time until it becomes second nature, until you get used to
saying lines that that you haven't thought. You know, because my daughter wants been actress, and I told that, beat out loud as much as you can, get your favorite movie monologues, and work on the memorizing, because then you learn how to turn dialogue that's not yours into yours.
So I think I'm gonna start with the uh with the piss do it.
I like to see a film.
I want to see it.
I want to see it.
I mean I really have been uh having fun doing it. It's just you know, I'm so competitive. So you know, when I get to a point where it's like all right and it's challenging, and like it turned me up, like I gotta get on this ship. I gotta figure this shit out like yeah, I mean, and then you know, just the way that I've been going about it, Like you know what I mean, I'll just read it, read it, read it.
Just drilling, drill, drill and drilling, dude. That's that's it, brother, I mean that's the only thing. I mean, I'm older, so I have to drill a little harder than I used to. I used to have a photographic memory, but it's kind of clouded now it's got a less tap on it. So yeah, drilling, baby, there's nothing better than drilling, doing your lines while you're running on a treadmill or
doing something else. Drilling is the only way. And dude, you got a great personality, so I mean you're a natural fulfilmed that way with shit.
Man. I appreciate it, because Damn, sometime that ship that shit get a little hard. Then I have to go back into my mindset of like damn, when shit got hard for me on the field, or when I was at practice, or when I was working out getting ready to go to training camp, mini camp or ohas or any of that, knowing that I got to come in yeah, I mean ready to perform. Like so when I get out there, on on set, it's like, Okay, I got them them same kind of nerves that I had. Yeah,
you when a good time for game time. Yeah, then I'm just you know, focusing on shit that I don't even know. And then it's been to a point where it's like I can you know, uh, the actors that I'm working with, like, you know, I could say their lines and then I'm right into my ship. So I mean, it's been it's been an interesting transition for me, but
I have been enjoying it. But just to get some you know, some words a knowledge from you, especially considering now, you know, just not looking at you as an actor and seeing you as a historian with all these fucking numbers and all these facts, like it makes me believe like, okay, well shit, you know what I mean growing up you know said he was a fighter, you know, I mean standing on business and the ship that you represent, and I'm like, damn, you know what, I'm walking that path
and you know what I mean, It's something that you know, I like to say, is nothing new under the old moon, And why not look at the individuals who laid down the foundation, you know what I mean before you and you know what I mean, walk that path like you know what I mean, it ain't gonna be nothing new that I'm out here doing. There's been plenty of athletes that transition from you know, playing their sport and then getting into uh, the industry. So man, I appreciate that.
And then you know, just from the standpoint of you know, I've seen uh, this entertainment space eat up a lot of people. Well help shit eat them up like fuck. Like I mean, I've been somebody that pride my cell phone, sticking to my guns, and represent who I am at all times. No matter what room I walk in, I'm still gonna be the same that I've always right right, So keeping that type of mindset like and wanting to grow in it, do you see any problem with that?
Think?
I think you're still right, I mean, trying to stay to your core friends and you're keeping who you really are because the business nobody prepares you for show biz.
The ups and downs are are so crazy.
Nothing prepares you for that because you go way up, but then you got to come back down, and those those ups and downs messed a lot of people up, and nobody prepared tells you that you got to be prepared for like hyper people, everybody loving you and then everybody hating you, and everything's in public and every it's it's it's rough.
Well, John, that's that's that's fascinating because obviously in sports, you know, you have the transition from college to the pros and football leagust and you and then your career kind of plateau is a little bit and you get older and you kind of it's an eight to twelve of your career for the top players, right, and you kind of know the transition. But entertainment, like to yourself, I mean, you don't know which ways to go. You could be on top of the world one day, next
you know, you don't get college, no jobs. I mean, how you're right, it would eat a lot of people up. That'd be another story I for you to tell at some point, because no one talks about the underbelly of the people that get eating alive.
Correct, Yeah, yeah, Because I mean if you start reading your reviews and you start believing that then you got to believe the good. Then you're gonna have to believe the bad. Because nobody gets consistently good reviews, you know, so when you get a bad review, then you gotta believe it. Then you gotta start believing that you suck. And then how do you how do you soothe yourself? You know, you find the wrong friends, you find the wrong people of alcohol, the drugs start coming back.
How to feel better yourself? Medicaid?
And then then you got this you know, roller coaster life that's not healthy.
Well, I had a situation like that. I say, I think like year three when I was in Buffalo, before I had got traded uh to Seattle, and it was more like, I'll fuck him. We always knew he was a thug. We knew he wasn't shit. Oh he ain't gonna make it, this, that and the third, and I'll fuck him. He's washed up or he can't run the ball. No more this, that and all that type of shit. And then as soon as I got up out of that environment and I got traded to Seattle and then
went ahead and created an earthquake. You feel what I'm talking about? So alone at the time, I remember that. I remember that vividly. And I just because I'm not somebody who big after like the games, like to go watch ESPN, you know, look at my stats, this, that and the third I was more a team situation, like, shit, if we win, regardless whateverever, I had one hundred yards or I had ten yards. If we won, shit, I'm
partying like it's nineteen ninety nine. And then if we lost, I'm in the lab trying to figure out, Okay, what was it that I that I didn't do that I could do better? Or I did this pretty good, but how can I do this even better? To the point where because I you know what I mean, I don't really like losing, but I mean I think it was something that my mom taught me after my first game when I was playing pop warning football. We lost the
game and I was mad as hell. I'm crying and shit, and my mom was like, why the fuck you crying? Like where you get to go out here and do this again next week? And I'm like, oh, we got another game. Yeah, you got about ten more games, like why did you trip? Like you get to you know what I mean, you get to go redeem yourself with And the thing was, I didn't have a bad game,
but it was just the fact that we lost. And ever since then, you know, I kind of took the bad with the good and the good with the bad. And I always just harped on that mindset with how I grew, and no matter what, if it was a winner or loss, I always looked at it like, Okay, what could I have done better? I mean, how could I have helped the team in a better way? You know, I mean, oh, we got a sack? What could I
have done to help this offensive linement? You know, I mean stay on that block to where the quarterback didn't get hit or you know, I mean just little little specific details that you know mainly don't mean nothing to a lot of people, but it's just some shit that goes a long way, and it could be the designing
factor on if you win or if you lose. But you know, within this space, because I guess what it feels like to me is like when you on set and individuals know me, and it's more so like they look at me like, oh shit, that's more shan football player, Like they got this kind of like oh he's he's beast mode and this and that. The third So, if it's something that I'm doing on set, and if it don't read right, like I come from a background, you're not doing your job or what you're supposed to do.
Somebody come and tell you, hey, what the fuck is you doing? Like, no, you're supposed to hit the hole like you're doing all that dancing in the back, hit the hole and get down field right now. But on set it's like, oh no, that was good, let's let's just try it again, and it's really no direction more.
Sean are interesting And I never asked you us Are you because of you and your personality and all that? Are anybody on the set? Are anybody scared to tell you the truth?
I'd be afraid to tell you. Don't want to hurt people's feelings either, man, you don't want to. There's also negative feedback for acting sometimes shuts people down even more so you have to you know, you.
Have to nurture people into their talent.
You know you have to.
And then then with acting, you we all make mistakes, so you need more sins what we have takes because people make mistakes.
But I'm more of a guy that's like, if I'm doing something wrong, tell me I'm doing it wrong, so that way I can not do that shit no more rather than you just said, Okay, we're gonna do another take, and if you don't tell me, I'm doing nothing wrong. Then I think I'm I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. But if it come to the fact where it's not and I'm the reason why we're doing the take over, it's like, all right, well, who the fuck who not
giving what they're supposed to give? And then sudden you find out is you was like, oh shit, the well, why the fuck you didn't tell me I was doing the wrong shit? So then I could have did something different.
Acting is not like sports.
You can't call people out like that.
We don't.
We don't do that. It'd be great, it'd be.
Great if he could all be like that, but not there's so many egos. People get brutales and they stuck. I had that.
Yeah, No, I don't have that eight more, Sean Brouh, What the fuck is you giving me right now? We need less of what the fuck you're giving us and more of what we want. Okay, my bad ship?
Yeah, been doing that.
You ain't tell me I was doing then, rule, So I just thought we was good. Yeah.
I don't get any of this feedback in pology. We know none of this.
Nobody else at Gavin John.
Well, I'm I'm gonna tell your ass Yevin, What the fuck you're doing?
It's universal love. That's why I'm in politics. Just universal love.
Oh yeah, I'm conditional love, additional.
I'm curious, you know so many of us in life. I mean, I'm thinking of the sports construct. You know, we have coaches, we have mentors people. I mean, do you still have people in your life that independent of a director or a project that you're involved with and you have situational partners?
Do you still have do you still have coach?
Do you still someone I mean, is there an old acting coach that takes a look at your tapes and calls and says, man, I think you're slipping here a little bit, or hey brother, that was that was next level, dude.
It's absolutely It's like think, I think of myself like as a tennis player, and I got to be playing and I got to have a coach and he's got to keep me together and tight and I got to keep my game up. So yeah, I have my old act teacher, David Newer. I love him, and he keeps me tied and clean, you know, And I'm always reading scripts out loud, I'm doing zooms with other actors. I'm keeping my my skills sharp as fucking because you can't let your skills drop. You got to keep It's like
EDDI sport, you gotta keep doing it. And this, this whole thing is a sport.
John, who's your crew? Who's your crew in the business? Like, who do you have? Who's like your main If you got to call two or three buddies, who are the guys you're calling for vice counsel? Kick it with with whatever?
I love Mark Buffalo, man, he's the most honest, caring You talk about the Hulk, Yeah, yeah, the whole Yeah, the hul Yeah, Yeah, he's fucking amazing. And Ethan Hawks also like an incredible guy. You can talk about anything. He's a great artist. Yeah, David harber Is. It's phenomenal and I love hanging with him. Makes me laugh as fuck. You know, there's some great folks out there, man, that's super talented, really humble. I like the humble motherfuckers who
are talented. I don't like egos. I don't like vanity and be like that. It's not I don't have I don't have room for that ship.
No, well, John, I mean and you know, as we close, that's a perfect I mean, John Doug was saying something earlier which I picked up about you and Marshawn. It's all about authenticity. Uh, It's all about character and uh.
And I appreciate your authenticity. I appreciate who you've become in terms of being an activist and a leader, not just you know, one of our great and most outstanding entertainers, but someone that's that's providing you know, meaning and purpose and mission at a time when we need it more than we've ever needed it in our lives. So mad respect for you, man, Grateful for everything you're doing.
Batman. Let me tell you something, Man. You could say real last motherfucker you.
Last motherfucker motherfucker's shoes.
Marshawan, the shoes, not the pandas you can throw that one in there every now and then. You could just you know, I mean to switch up the game a little, I will say.
I will say, John is a realized motherfucker.
Thank you, Big Hawks man, big Hogs, all, thank you John. He's thank you brother much love appreciate it, Jeeve