Man, what's handed?
Man?
You got Marshaw Bismall Lynch.
Doug Hendrickson and Gavin Knewsome and you're listening to politickets.
You're knowing to be, You're known to be.
Marshawn likes this nice jersey right there, Marshawn, how you doing? They just dust that off today for you.
Marshawn, No, man, your little Homer Simpson three hairs at the top of your head between them glasses and that little mohawk thing on the top.
Of your Simpson out.
Yeah, you got out, Help you out, man.
I've heard a lot of shit that was next level, Brue.
Marshawn's here's the deal, Like I told Marshawn did last night, Gavin, I said, here's the problem. If you take a tape measure from one to one hundred, the average life expectancy is seventy five. I'm fifty five, So we cut out zero to fifty five and then seventy five hundreds.
So that gives me and you, Gavin about eight more good summer.
Really eight.
So what we have to do is start traveling with Marshaan a little bit more, have a little bit more fun.
Right now, you know what I'm saying.
We gotta get some jail where you gotta lick your And it smoothed that ship over a little bit here, right.
I got the jail.
That's that's what I do best.
But I don't man.
By the way, I also good Doug said he was dusting off the jersey.
You took that a little personally, I know, marshawn I did. It was old, bro old.
You know what I figured out I was old when my brother sent me a congratulations this morning for for the Hall of Fame thing, and I just realized, like, you know, he's still playing this somebody who I was coaching up since damn since he was ship, since he came out the wound. And to hear him, to hear him say that, it was just like, oh you you kind of up there, my boy.
By the way, guys, do you know this literally no bs just today on my desk is a big brick.
I'm like, what the hell is this brick?
And a bunch of folks had signed it, some of the guards and some of those incarcerated folks in Quentin. They just tore down that wall. Talk about tear down the wall that was built in eighteen sixty. Remember you saw that temporary fence in Quenton. They literally just bulldozed that damn thing down and there was a brick sitting on my desk again.
But talk about bringing people.
Gavin, you can't be using that shit like is you don't fucking goddamn amusement.
Park Man, you getting, You're getting souvenir bricks and shit.
No, you in this. It's not my damn amusement.
I know you all greeks of damn Amusic. Why is he so happy in prison? I'm trying to stay out of prison. No, man, the brick, but the brick it represents what you're just saying. It was signed by some of the guards, called some of the inmates, and they sent it to me man, because it's about people coming together speaking of that day. And just before we bring up Pete, I'm serious, Marshaan, this has got to be
interesting you and Pete Carroll. Have you guys had a lot of conversations over the course of the last couple of years.
I mean, how many times you guys engaged?
Yeah, you gotta remember I went back and uh and played for another season. You played, I know, I'll call it a season if I played a game. It's a season. I don't know if I.
Get you played three games?
It was four?
I think?
Was it for no? It was the last.
It was the last game against the Niners, and then the playoff game and then green.
Bay green Bay. Shit, the playoffs was involved, so shit, it felt like a season.
By the way, the only thing I remember about that, Doug, you remember it well too.
It is like beas Quake two point zero, when you came out and leadies have gone to introduced the rest of the team, and then it was finally your turn. Music up, We're on the field. Next letter, Doug was like, Doug was like a kid.
It's like, get ready, man.
Doug was so nervous, like it's about to happen.
And it was like, I mean, and I never span a lot. In fact, I don't think I've ever been to that stadium in person. And Doug was like, man, it gets loud in here.
I'm like, damn, that's the beauty of that game. Guy. That was the only game where Shawn didn't yell at me after the game.
Shut the fuck up. You know what, hey, bro, you know what you are? Prankster, my dude? You know what they call you. The younger kids in today's time right now, they would call you a troll.
You know, it was very cool.
I met Pete Carroll five or six times, but just hello, goodbye in passing Doug. Remember before the game, Pete came all the way to the other side to meet with us and spend time with us. And I'm like, this guy is just a little different. I mean, you know, we can talk about that, but just as a personal guy for him to take that time to come over and uh, and obviously we're bsing about Marshawn behind Marshawn's back as we.
Are right now.
But oh ship see look that's y'all. That's y'all.
Uh, that's y'all Marine connection, cause you ain't y'all y'all from the same hood.
Yeah, San Francisco in connection.
Oh my bad.
That's how we rolled Redwood High School. Bro, my high school.
That's why, that's why Pete has been so successful in his life.
Oh he got that bad. It's oh, it's in you, not on y'all.
Hunt. That's what it's about. Those public school kids.
I'm gonna tell you this. I was in Seattle for what maybe eight nine years and I'm talking about every single day. This motherfucker. Pete would come in with the same energy when lose draw rain sleep snow. I don't give a fuck what it was. He came in every day the same exact person, regardless, and that shit used to drive me fucking crazy.
I used to ask. I used to ask that motherfucker all the time, Hey, what kind of drugs did you want on? Bro?
Because I need some of that ship. Because the way you come in and in this negrit it was never never negative, never negative, never negative until he pulled yell ass in that room and then he started gassing.
Now we've got to throw these hands, but it was never. He was never. You couldn't catch this dude in a bad mood.
Everlse, we bring him in, Marshawn.
Let's bring him in. Let's bring in mister positivity himself.
It's positive.
Yeah, Hockey Carrollton.
Marshaun, and Gavin, we have an incredible episode of politics today straight from Marin County.
High School College Marin.
That's one of only three coaches Gavin to win a national championship, two of them and a Super Bowl former head coach the Jets, the Patriots, and of course, the Seattle Seahawks coach thirteen years with Seattle eligible for the Hall of Fame this year, the legendary Pete Carroll thanks for joining his peach.
What's up, Doug. We got a lot of bearer going on right now.
But by the way, which one of you two? I'm curious which one of you two again in the Hall of Fame? First? Mark Shawn or coach.
I heard him just say that his favorite color was gold, so maybe he might.
Be Oh you remember that, huh?
I heard that? Yeah, by the.
Way, coach, I don't know if you heard. I mean, Marshawn just going completely crazy about all your positivity. You know, it doesn't matter what happened every damn day in every way, you're all bringing that positivity.
It said.
It drove Marshawn completely crazy.
I know, yeah, I know he could stand it. I left get him up in the corner of the room. I sat the way back, you know, kind of making a little statement, last guy in the room and all that kind of stuff. And I know it just pissed him off because he thought I was trying to make him have fun and be positive too. I didn't care about him. He was it's fun guys.
Hey, coach, Well, before we begin, Coach, did you ever think in a million years you would be doing a podcast with more shaan?
Uh? You know, I thought I thought he may be following me around here, I'm following him around.
I'm not quite sure I was wrong, right, Man, Nah, I've been told you a long time ago, man enview. Man, I do not understand y'all. I don't think y'all get it. Like, well, it'll be probably like on a you know, a Thursday. We got practice on Friday morning, and I'll be litt
as fuck. I'm talking about I'm littus fuck. I'm coming too the facility like shit, maybe Fox Fox thirty because I ain't gonna be late, and I'll just go into the locker room and go to sleep in one of the little big reclined chairs or something and a light clockwork around five five thirty or something. Here come Pete walking in that goddamn room with that the same energy he just left it last day, bouncing around.
Shit.
Hey, hey, I'm going joint hell a bubble gum ship and I'm like, how the fuck is you?
Brit You ain't even brush your teeth yet?
You happy than the motherfucker, Like, God damn, how you do that?
Bro? You know what, I'm about to go back to sleep for a minute.
It's all about attitude. You got a good under your don't and that doesn't ever has to be the same obviously obviously, but uh but there's a lot of guys that they kind of used it a little bit. You know, I was their attitude, So that's that's okay.
Coach. Did you have that your whole life grown up?
Because obviously as everything ever since I you know, knew you back in the day when you were coaching the Jets, did you have that grown up as a kid?
Steam are in?
Were you always that guy that was upbeat energy and and bringing everything together and attitude and that kind of stuff?
My mom my mom taught me that some goods just about to happen. And I've never never lost sight of that, and uh, you know, and somehow they empowered me to you get to do what you want to do and have the attitude want to have. But it was always about something just just around the corner was going to turn. So why would you be thinking glumming down and out? And you know, because he was going to get good. And so I've been like that my whole life, I'm sure, coach.
I'm still trying to recover from Marshawn say. And he came in lit uh.
I mean, I'm trying to translate that exactly, you know, like lit up or you know, was something else.
I was lit up, like I'll tell you that lit up like a Christmas tree.
The point was to me, you know, my guys were all different and uh, and I want to give him space to be what they needed to be he needed to be and make his statement of what he was all about it and I loved it. I mean I told him just recently that it was so important for me to get him to come to our team because I wanted him to affect everybody on the team. And I didn't care about him affecting it the way I want him to affect it. I want him affect the
way he was gonna affect it. And I just figured we'd work it out, you know, and we would figure out a way to make it all fit and and uh, you know, and we did and he and hes still pissed because he he didn't figure out I didn't care that he was like you, I loved that he was like he was, and I thought the more he was, the better it was for us. And and uh and I could put up with him. I was okay, you know. And if you heard him say he wasn't gonna get fined,
he knew. He knew that where that line was drawn, it was about the cash, and he was not going to give up his money. So he stayed close enough to it so it worked out just fine.
Hey, coach, take me through.
You know, I think it was your second year there, right when when I was talking to you and John about trading for Marshawn when stuff is going on the first year.
Was that your one?
Yeah, your one, and and and and you know, we're talking about the trade and at the time the packers want him and you guys want him, and we're going.
Back and forth.
Take me through how that that trade changed kind of the the tenor and the identity of Seattle and and and and and really put you guys on the map as far as what you built there.
Correct.
Yeah, well, really this is how this worked. I wanted. I knew that I had missed Marshawn and recruiting and uh uh, we had a whole plenty of guys, but I missed him, and then we played against him, and I knew who he was and knew about all this stuff. I knew a lot better after the recruiting than than before. And so I already had this this, you know, kind of notion of what he would be like. And he's up there in Buffalo and he's kind of in trouble and he's kind of pissing him on and the working out.
Yeah and uh.
Yeah, So so we tried to trade him for if you remember Doug, it was for months. It really took us three months to get them to say that they would trade him to us. I don't know what else. They don't know what the packers or nothing else. But uh, you know, we kicked in a couple another five or something for me, and they were they were hard on us. They didn't they didn't want to trade him, but they knew that they kind of needed to, And to me, I was trying to get it. It was so important. There
was nobody I never pursued anybody like that. It was so important because I wanted his attitude and his his makeup on our team because we were down and out club at the time. You know, we han't done anything in the last years before I got there, and it was time to see if we could turn it. And he was such a big personality, uh that I thought we could really build around and and you know, I don't think many people thought of marshall the way back
in the day. I don't know, I don't know. Maybe maybe there was others.
I don't think no, because you guys, remember at that point in time, motherfuckers had counted me out. A lot of motherfuckers had counted me out. So that's one of them situations where you get in the position and you say, like, you know what I mean, somebody else see something in you that you don't see in yourself.
Now, not that I was.
Involved or you know, I mean I let you know all the outside uh you know, consume my my thoughts or my personality or whatever, but I mean, you know, at that point, considering in Buffalo, you know, I'm not playing. Uh you know, I'm i'm i'm i'm I'm coming off the bench, or I'm I'm suited and I'm not playing, or I'm just saying regular street clothes on the sideline. So and go from from being on the on the
on the sideline and street clothes. You know what I mean to the beast quake, you know, I mean that that's a that's a yeah, I mean, that's that's some some belief in a motherfucker though, you know what I'm talking about.
No, I definitely had conviction for you now, And I can't even tell you why it was. It was so obvious to me because nobody else saw John, and the guys in the building didn't didn't see it the same way. But that's why I kept fighting for it, you know. And and finally it just, you know, I bugged him enough, I say, let's call him again. You know, there's really I went down to that office a number of times and he had to call again because I was making
them call again. And and finally something happened, you know. And uh, it's just it was, you know, I took a shot that you might be able to bounce back in a big way, you know, because it wasn't working out, and I knew I could help you work it out, you know. I knew we could fit it together so that would make sense and not I can't tell you I knew how crazy it was going to be. But
but the rest of history is history, you know. And and so really it was really the most important move that we made in making the statement of the kind of team we wanted to be and the kind of personalities we wanted to jump around and play with. And uh, and it really was. It was huge.
Coach.
It's interesting, I mean, you you were talking about, you know, just letting players be there themselves and personalities take shape.
Of course you're You're not only.
It sounds like with Marshaun you weren't just looking for the athletic talent. You're also looking for the attitude. You're looking for someone that can express themself at another level. Is that something I mean, you spending all those years and you know, usc working your way up obviously multiple
teams and then Seattle. Was that something that came to you instinctly as a coach early on or you developed that over time and then found that, you know, specific at this time with these personalities that that can really gel and express.
Interestingly, the first year I was coaching the dB is back at the University of Specific and a million years before I got in trouble for having a meeting one time with the players and asking what they needed to work on. And we had a great meeting. Everybody had ideas and suggestions, you know, and these we were lousy,
fucked is the team, you know. But but we had a great meeting and I can't run them back from the meet the night meeting during camp, and ran into the head coach, Chester katz And and told he coached, I just had the best meeting. I can't believe how I energized it was. These guys were so fired up, and I asked, you know, I asked them of the
guys and what they needed to work on. And he stopped me, cut me and said, don't you ever know, in this big southern Kentucky draw, don't you ever you know they ask the players what they want, you tell them you're the coach. I said, okay, So so I you know, I was. I was crushed because I thought I'd really done something good. And by the time I got to the next day, I was doing everything that
we said we were gonna do. The coach you know, so and it worked out great and he never knew it and all that, But the point was that I never knew. The point was that that connecting with people, uh and and going to where they where they feel good about themselves is a place of destination. Man, that they can make a difference. And and whether it's one guy, it's it's you know, many people, a whole football team,
a whole group of people. Uh, when you when they feel your commitment to them and they know that you care about what they're doing, and you know that. I've always been that way, It's what I'm saying. I was all the way back to my second year in coaching, you know. So, Uh, it's always been part of it and the part that always gets lost. And I can even tell right now, Gavin, you're thinking, Okay, this is Lucy Goosey and here's all these guys running all different directions.
And you can't play football like that. You've got to have discipline. You've got to have a consistency to it. You've got to have you know, rules and guidelines and things to keep people in order. But that doesn't mean that you can't recognize the extraordinary uniqueness of the individuals. And when you do, and and and then you open up to that and you receive them there like Marshaun
was a recipient. He fought me anyway. I was the best guy you could ever possibly be with he bought me anyway, you know, just because he was so contrary. But that was great, that was him and it can work, you know, No, it's not. Most people don't do it that way now because it's it's harder, it's more difficult because you're dealing with the individual the changes, the uniqueness of the personalities, and you know, and they can mix it.
I mean, Sean can tell you we had troubles with some guys in our club and you know, throughout and but we were able to find the way to keep them connected U for the purpose being a great team. And they did it and we showed that we could do that.
So I want to ask you something like with with with all of that being said, though, right and if I if I remember correctly, you have a you have a degree in uh psychology right.
Well it's sports psychology.
Yeah, So how how.
How much of that do you think played a role? And you know, your philosophy, your philosophy and football and your development of teams and players because you know, I mean when I first had got there, I think it was a like a crazy fucking number of like two hundred and like seventy plus players that you hadn't brought you know what I mean, in and out of the uh, out of the facility, out of the facility to create the exact team that you that you wanted.
Right, So how much how much do you think.
Your your your background and uh what what you got a degree in sports psychology?
Well it was it was in uh in physical education with amptasist and sports psychology. Yeah, I had a ton of stuff that I did in those days. I'm glad you asked the question because I really was affected by stuff I learned right then there, and I was able to because of being so close to the Bay area. There was a couple of great guys that were that had written stuff on their own, done their own stuff.
The guy Tim Galway wrote the inter Game of Tennis, and Michael Murphy was the guy who wrote about golf and he did some amazing things in his own studies. He was the guy that had started Ethelyn the Institute down on the coast. Uh. Those two guys in particular, not only did we get to read their books, but we got to we had to meet them and be with them and hang out with them, and and and and developed the friendship relationship with them and I so much.
I was affected so much by the way they thought and the way that they presented their stuff. And they were totally different, they were the same. But both those guys still to this very day, I still preach right
from the Gospel of what those guys believed in. And they were really something about about performance and about they both were highly influenced by Eastern philosophy and their young days when when they went and did their you know, their mission over in India and wherever they went, Uh, they came back and they had a slant to it that made sense to me that I've never lost contact with.
And it's really about helping people perform, uh totally in trusting themselves and totally in command of their moments and their times, and and creating the moments and the mindfulness that it takes to really be at your best. And so throughout all. I mean, I've never talked about those guys. I would never mention those those guys to you as a team. But I was working from that mentality of helping people get to the very best of what they
had to offer. And that's why it is why it was so important to to champion the individuals and to find the place where each player could be at his best and what he needed to be at his best. That's why I could have Marshan, and they could have Richard, and they could have Doug Baldwin and all the cam and all the different guys that were the personalities. They were all able to find their own space and be
comfortable with it. But yet I was I was there and kick their asks to make them great at what what they were capable of doing too, and so all of that blended together, Sean. So yeah, it goes way back and that was it never left me and I wrote about it in the book I did you know ten years or fifteen years ago, whatever it was, All that stuff was all part of my makeup that I never lost. And it was really the cool part about it. And Marshaan was one of the best at He just
needed to be in his own space. He didn't want anybody to fuck with him in any way. He didn't want anybody to, you know, try to get him this way or get him that way. Just leave me alone. And if you watched him after you make touchdowns, you know he wouldn't celebrate, you know, other than grabbing his nuts on the big run.
Talk about that.
You probably need a PhD.
You know, after the Super Bowl loss with the player, I mean that was take me through that time after the game, because obviously, I mean that wasn't just one day, one week that was that was months and months, and I mean, take me through your mindset after that game with how do you? I mean I had to be Take me through your mindset. That'd be very very tough. I can't even imagine being in your shoes.
Yeah, because motherfucker tried to whoop your ass.
Let me back you up a bit. If you remember when I was at st we played Texas and we were in the Rose Bowl and we get down like seventeen seconds left or something like that, fourth and seven, nineteen seconds left, fourth and seven from the seven yard line. If we don't want that, if we just stopped the dude right there, we don't won the third straight national championship that I ain't been done before. And we were
right at the precipice of doing everything. We had won every game for years up until that at that point right there, and bang, you know, he scrambles. They the running back screwed up the protection. We send double b and he releases instead of blocks the backer like he's supposed to. So we lose across the record and contain it's all the football stuff, but and the guy scrambled in the end zone, and so we go in the locker room. You know, minutes later, I'm talking to this team.
We were on the verge of, you know, something absolutely historic. And and what I my thought was that those seventeen seconds or nineteen second one going to find us we were what we were. And I carried that thought to the moment that that stupid fricking play happened in that game where they get to pick and to change the
whole game. And the instant that I bent down to think about, I knew it was gonna you know, there, I would have to be ready for moments like this, and these years of coaching is this is that moment, and you're gonna have to be a stud and I was gonna have to, you know, handle it, and because I was going to stand up for everybody and they're all gonna be pissed just like you were. The whole world. And Marshaw and I have talked about this in the past.
You know, that was a meaningful moment and we lost all that that would have been two in a row. We might have come back one three in a row, is way I feel about it. But uh, And so anyway, it was huge, and it was but you had to deal with it, and you had to deal with it, and I had to be the leader and I had to stand up for it and take the hit and just you know, okay, you know, take as my call and the whole thing. And I was willing to do
that for everybody else. And I mean he was pissed at me, and the fellows were pissed at me.
Everything was you know, with with with that band said, a lot of players from that team don't feel that, you know, I mean, considering your philosophy and what you stood for and what you got a lot of those guys to believe in, they don't feel that, you know. I mean you you you owned it from a perspective of which they would have liked you to own it.
Because then it started to get rough over there, well, it started to get rough for it got really rough for us though, to a point where it was like, yeah, I mean, and and the way I the way I think about it is like, uh, considering and like everybody, Oh, you should have just ran the ball with Marshan.
You know this, that and the third.
But you know, considering you know and the type of player I am, and you know, ship from what you just said to you know, any teammate of mine, I'll tell you like no, Marshan for show is a is a team player in which you know what I mean. At the end of the day, I know a lot of a lot of guys took that ship a lot harder even than I did, because of because of what you instilled and you know, I mean that Seahawk team.
So when I start thinking about it and I think about your mindset and you know, the psychology of you know, of people, but then you know, putting it into a term of ball players and then having this moment of of I'm gonna say, for us was like, uh was failure and then not for it to be you know, I mean something that a fa us personally because you know, I mean we felt like we was on that type of time and then a lot of them felt like, you know, we were stripped of it.
Yeah, I know I felt the same way. There's no there's nobody is better compared than I am about the whole thing I was trying to I would have done anything in my power to change the moment, but the moment just happened so quickly. It was gone. It was gone before it even happened, And I wish I would have been able to affect it differently, but I didn't. I couldn't. You know. It had nothing to do with
all of the storylines. Marshaan and I talked about it. It had nothing to do with all the storylines about some other players or some other agenda. There was not That's not how the game works. It happened so fast they substitute we do this bump calls made. It just happened, and we got smacked in the freaking nuts by it. But you know, it's interesting, you guys got us on this this talk together because nobody had to deal with this more than Marshan and myself. I mean, nobody had
to ever deal with that. And we carried our whole life and it's just something that it's affected us both in different ways and all that. But but hey, it met us part of our life, and that's that's what we had to deal with it. We had to get on and we have and uh, he's kicking ass and I'm retired.
Because as a non football guy, I don't know that. I don't think i'd asked for Sean. Was it was the call from BEVL or was you made the call? Or how how did that?
Well? Who made the call?
We did the way we always did, Okay, it was There's there's defensive coordinators, offensive coordinators. They call this stuff. We play the game, and I'm responsible for every call that was ever made, that's all, Doug.
If you didn't catch that, Bevil made the motherfucking call and Pete didn't get to it quick enough to get out of that motherfucker, that's how that.
That's how what he just told you in a nutshell you know what I'm talking about.
But I mean, look, with with that being said, like you know, I mean because me and you we had a conversation when we talked, uh yesterday and uh, I was just talking about how, you know, how it affected my life and you know after that moment, you know, I was telling you like I was having a conversation with some ex players and you know, like.
Oh, you know, if you get that uh, if they give.
You the ball again, you go in and you score, you get the MVP of the super Bowl, and you know, I mean it, it is what it is. And I was like the fact that that didn't happen. It's almost to the point where it was like, you know, like that one guy in a movie that everybody rooting for that just quite he just don't make it. And now
I'm living a life of that guy. But I'm actually here to experience what it would be for an individual to you know what I mean, live life after you know, I mean all that, uh, after that, after that downfall, and I mean, you know, and in reality has been you know, I mean uh, I mean by the graces of God is like you mean, uh, he.
Blessed you in so many ways.
And it's more so like by me not you know what I mean, getting that ball or us not running that ball in uh. I feel like it made a stain on the world to where, no matter what the situation is, that particular play is always gonna be talked about. And the fact of the matter is like you know, Tom Brady winn uh, I mean, win another Super Bowl, Malcolm Butler going, you know, become the MVP of the game, you know what I mean, But no matter what you
talk about that Super Bowl. It always just come down to the fact like, oh they didn't didn't give oh boy the ball.
Marshing the ball and they lost, Like oh my god.
Like that shit turned my life in a way that I could never imagine because I asked those guys the same guy, I say, well, who want to who won the Super Bowl MVP the year before? And they're like, oh, Russell Wilson want to, Like, Nah, Russell Wilson didn't win it. Oh Percy Harvin, Percy Grvin got no, Percy Harvin didn't. And it's like Malcolm Smith did. Oh yeah, I was gonna say, Malcolm, Yeah, I mean you add who didn't who didn't win the Super Bowl? And the next year
and that oh Marshan they should have gaven him. And it's like, you know, I mean that, Doug, you like to use it post the rise. It it boasted my life and my career to a level of you know, I mean some that I could not have, you know, I mean understood or even imagine that my life could be.
Yeah, it's an amazing it's an amazing perception that you have of that, and and you're it's the truth. You're just talking the truth. That's what That's what happened. It's good that something good came from it, you know what I mean, that's all that you know that sounds like me does something good came out of that the crap that we had to go through and live with, and you know, they ain't going away. And that's I knew in that moment, it ain't going away that we're gonna
have this forever. It's a statement about how regardless of what happens in your life you we still have the ability to make of it which we what we want. And it's no matter how dark it as horrible a situation or the hugest mistake you could ever have made, whatever, it's still there's there's a life to follow it. And if you if you, if you hang in there and you keep battling. I mean, that's just the basical story
of it. But both of us men. Wherever I go now as a retired guy, people freaking boring to get over me, to get to me, to get into a picture, an autograph or whatever. They don't talk about the super Bowl, you know, they don't mention that they're there.
I don't know.
I just I get so much love that I couldn't ask for more. I'm shocked by it and I had no idea.
It's the exact opposite for me. So in a sense, it really showed me like how.
Much you know, I mean, the the world and people really you know, I mean, fuck with me from a respect level, and I really like I to me, I can I appreciate that shit to the max, like you know what I mean, because before that, like you know what I mean, considering like when I first got there and motherfuckers had counted me out, you know what I mean, all he washed up, he done, you know what I mean, stick a fork in.
He it's over with He a thug, he is, he'd a blah blah blah.
But then to see on the out, on my way out and the realities to that shit is like, nah, people really fuck with me on some like nah, we really fuck with you, shine, Like we really wish we
would have been able to see you do that. And since you know we wasn't able to, like even though it didn't happen, we feel that it did, and we gonna show you the love and the respect as if it did happen, So you know what I mean, Like I said, I really fucked with the people for really fucking with me on some you know what I mean, on some real like to me, cause that's some real shit, like if you get me four opportunities down there for show just my stubborn like Tom Hell is stubborn like
you ain't Finna just not allowed me to get up in this motherfucker.
Now, at the end of the day, shit happened, you know what I mean.
I done fumbled, you know what I mean, done, got tackled for a loss, all the type of ship that happened. But if you look at the situation and see how many times I go forward then I went backwards. We gonna take that. We don't. We don't take that opportunity. We gonna give you that chance. So I mean, you know, as much as I could look at would happened, Look as much as I could look at and be upset this,
that and the third. You know what I mean, My my, my, my biggest thing is whenever somebody say that to me. And I'm pretty sure like anytime I step outside on a day to day base, like at least once somebody you know, mention that to me. Uh you know about you know about that play, and it's just get to the point where it's like, uh, you say, what's that big dog?
No, No, just tell us it's your life, you know what, It's gonna keep coming this that's not gonna change. And it's it's love. Really, they're showing you the love and they they feel for you, you.
Know, yeah, man, so I respect that.
So just know that if you come up to me and you you say something though I'm not the most you know, I mean receiving or you know, outspoken.
Or ye know what I mean?
Uh, what do you call approachable or friendly or whatever? But just know that I really do appreciate that ship and I do have a lot of love and respect. And the love is is bulletproof, you know what I mean when you show me love and respect on a sense that you can appreciate you know, I mean the body of work that I put in.
So I just want to tell everybody I appreciate you for that.
My Hey, Doug, the only two. It sounds like Coach and Marshawn have moved on and different different and they've translated this differently. Of course you and I haven't. We're still raw about this damn thing. But that's a different conversation. By the way, I feel like I'm listening to the.
Stoics this is.
Like Marcus aurelia is talking about the obstacles the way. It's not what happens to you is what we do with what happens that determine our faith in future. But I love this notion that you guys have translated it in different ways but ultimately recognizing, uh, that these are moments in our life. And at the same time, you know, let's be honest, we've all had those moments. I think about political terms, you know, what about the emails, and it is something that that ultimately you can't.
Completely dismiss and coach.
I imagine, you know, despite the fact that you know it's got a still you know, it's hard to hard to fully recover.
From those decisions.
But I love that you had this experience before. So you you are you exaggerating when you say when you were leaning over that you literally had that memory of of that that rose ball game in your mind literally going through in real time.
It was it was the moment of realization that I'm this is this is the job I got, this is what I'm gonna have to deal with and I'm gonna have to deal with this now on and so and I thought before I even raised back up, the thought was, I want to do it and be the epitome of of how you can handle stuff like this and put it in the right spot. But meanwhile it's gonna be just hell. And that's it's been. It's been like that,
you know, if you're you compete like we do. Yeah, I don't ever get there's I don't ever get over that stuff. I don't put it away. I don't get over it at all. I carry it right to this very moment. I would do anything to change that that moment, but I don't get to, you know, so I gotta deal with it. So I'm gonna deal with it.
I got I got a way you could get over you in the phone booth for thirty seconds and we just go straight all body shots and just I mean.
This was going so well.
Man, it was for a minute, like, man, I wanted to put so many hands and feet on you. But you know what, because I respect my elders and I know you like ninety four right.
So man, you know I can't go out, you know what I mean?
He coach but I when I shake coach, and I'll you know the story, Gavin. But you know, after the game, you know, Pete was incredible because he recognized that, you know, we're going through some contract talks. And remember, Coach, you immediately say, hey, listen, we gotta we got to get
him done. And normally, timing wise, this would be probably some point and uh, you know, the summer, and you recognize it was important to kind of get him redone and you engage with Paul Allen and we got together, remember in your office for Paul's office, and we got him done, you know, probably a month after Super Bowl, which was I think was an important part.
And you led that charge, Coach. I appreciate that.
Well. Remember we went back to the playoffs the next year too, you know, we made it through that the garbage of it all. And and like Marshawn and I both agree, if if we'd have won that game, we probably would have won the next game too. I think we would have. It would have been totally obviously a different thing circumstances.
The league agree with They Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I mean, well I think all of us knew that. You know, there was just that time that we could have captured. But anyway, so that yeah, those were just the gestures, you know, showing the faith and the love that Marshawn can't do anything. Matter of fact, let me tell you one more story. The uh when Marshawn comes back, it comes back to us after being
out on about for a couple of years. The first thing, he comes walking down the hall to my office and he and he starts apologizing, whatever you were doing, you felt bad about. Whatever, you have to No, no, no, no, you don't have to say nothing. You don't have to say a word. I know, I know where your heart is, I know where I know where we are. I got no problem, and I'm not gonna not love you no matter what happens. It doesn't no matter what was said
or what's done. I know when in the long run of it all, we're all going to be connected back together again. And so and and it was. It was such a cool gesture that you wanted to, you know, try to clear the air or whatever. But you didn't need need to. I didn't need it. I didn't need to hear that. I knew.
Yeah, because I think before that time, I think I was on some ship, like hey, if I see you brow, I'm gonna beat this ship out of you.
Know you aren't.
You know you aren't.
You may say you are. You gotta realize I ain't going down now. You're not gonna knock me down.
So when I'm coming in the office and I'm coming for a job, like hey, I don't want like you know, if I know he thinks I'm gonna come and swing on him, he probably gonna be a little like.
This jo.
Like I told you got that stewe Joel right.
Now, Boin by the way, by the way, coach, I don't know if you know this.
I'm responsible for getting Marshawn to the hotel right after the game.
And he was completely docile, completely calm, sitting in the front seat, turned on the music, had a drink I don't know what the hell with, some whiskey or something.
Nah, that was some pure white Hennessy.
Whatever the hell it was.
And he had a window my blunt and you guys weren't it I don't even know if you were off the damn field. And he's he's he calmly says, let's get the hell out of here, batman. So we're driving through when the parking lot. People are just starting a couple of people leaving the game. Most people weren't even leaving the game. And he's just casually, calmly listening to music. I'm sitting there back back of the car with Doug going. Man,
Marshawn is taking us very responsibly and respectfully. Appreciate his maturity. And now I'm here, and he wanted to beat the shit out of you, and he was gonna come get your ass.
Fine in a fun I mean this, you shattered everything. Marshaan shattered it.
Oh.
Man would look I mean, you know.
He always stretched a little bit now, Jesus Christ.
Oh he wasn't shocked though, Coach, he was flat out in shock because we got out of the car and shit out of me.
I'm like, I'm just the driver, bro, I'm the other guy got you.
Home because somebody asked the question.
And as as thirty years of an agent, those six seven eight years in Seattle, it was like it was iconic.
It was rock star status.
The town was crazy, I mean everything about it, and you were blessed, Coach, to have two teams like that.
USC for those years was the same way.
I mean, how do you compare the two, because literally, I don't know if another coach had both sides like you did, other than you know, Bearry Switzer at Oklahoma and the Cowboys obviously.
But and maybe Jimmy Johnson Miami.
But you had literally two beatles rolling stones of teams.
How do you compare the two? And the environments in LA and Seattle and all that stuff.
I'm curious. There's nothing that compares to the SD thing in this regard. We won every game for three years straight. I mean, think about that, and we won thirty something games in a row and all the way to that Texas game, and had we won that one, what would happen?
You know?
So there was a golden time there, back to gold the golden time there that was just extraordinary. And I felt like, you know, I I had arrived my calling and coaching, my life had already happened. I mean, that couldn't be any better than that, but I did have I did feel the challenge because of the competitiveness, the challenge go to the NFL and take the mentality of taking care of people and loving people up and helping them,
you know, be the best they could be. I want to see if it would happen in the NFL, I really because I was always I had become an NFL guy for all the years I've been in there, and so I like that challenge is the ultimate challenge. And so so we make you know, we get our run going and we're rolling and it. But let me say this, there's never enough wins. There's never enough wins. And it's, uh, you know, that's what I'm saying. Thirty four in the
row or whatever. Okay, there should have been thirty five, you know, and then there's never enough, and so it keeps you coming back. But yet it also kicks your ass, you know. And and so in Seattle, you know, we don't win every game. You know, we won over ten games a year for fourteen years or something whatever it was, but it still wasn't enough, you know.
And so.
That stretch in in La was in the things that we were doing in the city and all of the stuff that was happening, and all the glorious moments that we had, you know, in the Collie and all that stuff. It was that was just the top to the top. And I went to try to do it again. I wanted to try to do that in Seattle too, But you know, you can't win every game in the NFL. It just doesn't happen, you know, So there's just never enough wins.
Was there more pressure at US or Seattle? In your painting and knowing it was a USC, I.
Didn't feel I didn't deal with that, and the pressure thing, I didn't deal with that, really, I mean, that's not I didn't even thought of it that way, you know. I just ball coaching was not that I was a mercenary, was fighting somebody else's wars, you know, and and going forward and taking it as far as you could with the highest of expectations. And I really didn't It wasn't
the pressure and that then. It was it was hard working, you know, to keep everybody together and to make sure that everybody's on the same page and everybody was loving what we were doing. And I mean that it was a challenge and all that, but it wasn't about the pressure. I don't see it that way.
The coach despite I mean, you're suggesting to the lack of pressure, which is remarkable that mindset. I mean, you've been doing this a couple of decades coaching. Now you're walking the campus at USC again teaching, not coaching. I mean, is at next level decompression still processing or you just stayble? Do you have that mindset? Whatever I'm doing, I'm doing, that's my focus. What's my energy closing?
No, I'm competing. I'm competing to make this a great freaking year. Now it's already been a great sum But I'm I am. I mean, that's just frankly, how I'm doing. I'm not doing that any I'm not doing anything different at all in that regard that that the springtime, I'll be, you know, at the st thing. But there's other stuff going on. We're doing other things that I'm really excited about.
It's just different, you know, And and uh, my mentality is so much it's so much different because all of the little, uh the little nit pick and stuff that you've got to be involved with when on the team, when you're coach players, and all of it that's been set aside now and so my mind is clear and I'm freer to take it where I want to go. And I love this sense coach.
What class are you? What class are you teaching over there?
Uh?
Well, we're gonna we're gonna be I'm gonna be teaching the class with a gun named barn Sony who's the dean of religious studies on campus, and he's a freaking rock star, and he and I gotta do this thing together and uh we it's gonna be uh pop through the Business School to Marshall. It'll be it's gonna be
very close to my heart. Let me just say that, I don't give away the title of what we're doing that, but it's gonna be very close to my heart and the stuff that that I believe in and and mixing it with with what veron news that he is an extraordinary uh uh instructor in all of ancient religions and all the kind of cool things spirituality and so many things that he's gonna connect with us. It's gonna be uh, it's gonna be really something, I think. So we're all really excited about it.
Well, we have more Sean with the cal degree and the Prince gree coach. He might he might be a guest lecture a few times with.
Yeah, I know and no one exactly Coach, don't buy any of that, bs No. Then again, he's got.
Years for real.
The hanging oh my goddamn on my wall.
He does have evidence.
All I heard is three point two was three point.
Three point three point two.
We do a special thing on the show code where we asked the governor questions, whatever question you want to ask the governor.
Coach uh it balls in your court?
Uh man, I got so many questions.
Why did I sign the nil? By the way, first state to sign the nil? We can have that conversation.
Oh lord, hey Gavin, that's a big mistake. Now, that's a huge mistake. Now I'm not even asking about that, but that's a huge error that we should should work to correct.
You. I mean, no, bs, are you rid? I mean, are you that concerned about it that it's gone out of control?
Absolutely? Think about it? Okay, you want to go there for a second. Think about those poor kids, Those poor kids, and those families and those moms and dads are figuring out how can I make money on my kid when he's he's a sophomore in high school and he's going to be a star, and they're thinking about stuff like that instead letting the kid go to school and be an athlete. What are you talking about? You know? And and attorneys and lawyers and reps and and just like
Doug did are representing those high school kids? You know what is that all about? Who thought that was a good idea? It was I can talk about forever, but that's it should be changed. If you want to do something good, fix that.
Fix that.
I don't disagree, and I have strong opinions about the transfer portal and what's happened with that as well.
Though you don't think that's a mean mess, but it's interesting.
You never I mean you, I mean, but look with all all the money in college sports, particularly programs like USC and others, but I mean the fact that some of these players, I mean the vast mentor overwhelming majority, are never going to play in the NFL. They never became Marshal Lech. I mean, there was Did you ever think about it?
At least?
Should there be some framework, even if it's not nil as.
We know it? What are you worried about? What are you worried about? You worried about these kids getting compensated because other people are making money on them. They're getting an education, they get they get a pilgrimt they got money in their pocket. This is the time of their life.
They don't need that element of professionalism to cloud what's going on, and also the mentality of the teams in the different aspects of how it works in the locker room, with some kids making a million bucks and some kids don't making anything. I mean, it's it's just a mess.
It takeaway from the actual game of football, where's the game in a way that you approach it, but from a standpoint of you know, I mean, because you know a lot of those kids won't never yeah, I mean reach a level of you, I mean a Hall of Fame football player. So being able to capitalize in those moments,
I do believe that. I don't think it's a bad idea in order to get these kids, you know, I mean paid, but for the simple fact of all of the unnecessary outside shit that they have to go through in order to get that, and then the lack of education. That you're going to put a million dollars in the pocket of an eighteen year old with somebody who looking at them as just an eighteen m or just a way to you know, I mean, capitalize and make some money off of them.
It put them in a It put them in a.
Tough ass position before they become you know, I mean mindful of what's really going on and the responsibilities of what it actually means to have this type of chilula and your and your bank account. To me, it's a it's a plus and a minus. And I think that with you know, I mean with great response, I mean with great Yeah, I mean success come with great responsibilities.
And a lot of these individuals who yeah, I mean don't even know what it is to be successful for you put them in a position where, yeah, I mean, you give them the bread before they actually know what it feel like to actually know.
How to how to how to rock with the money.
Well, coach, one of the one of the problems last year I had, I had a player I signed and I'm not going to end the player of the school, but this player got like five hundred thousand dollars, okay, And it came to me before the draft. He said, hey, man, winter taxes do I said, well, they're doing April. And I said, well, how much do you have left from nil? He said nothing. I said, what do you mean nothing? He said, it's spent it off. I said, well you got to pay, you know, at least to seventy five
to Uncle Sam. And so now in his case he went he went to the NFL and he was able to get the money. The problem is these schools are not educating the kids. And so let's say this kid didn't make the NFL, Well, Uncle Sam's not gonna go away. They're gonna they're gonna find him somewhere and say you is two fifty. So now the guy's life is started with basically in the hole, you know, two hundred and fifty grand.
Yeah, this is this is the parents game. This whole thing is about the parents or whoever is mentoring the kids. They're the ones getting the money. They're the ones that are they're gonna put it where they're supposed to. They're not gonna the kids are aren't gonna They're only gonna screw it up. They don't have a chance to be prepared to do that. Why would we what's the what's
the rush? You know what's the rush? And if there's if they want to up the pelgram, they want to up the general money that every kid gets something gets five thousand, ten thousand dollars a year, And I'm like, great, but give it to everybody and let me let them all be just players and playing the program and deal with those is enough. It just doesn't make sense. It's not right. The thing I don't like about the parent taking the money.
But if you're willing to put that much money into the to the hands of the student, then you should be willing to put you know, I mean as equal amount of money into you know, I mean the education that these kids need, you know what I mean.
So then when they actually do get to the league, you have less.
You have less of a situation where it's almost what the high ass percentage of like what eighty percent of all professional athletes go bankrupt type situation. But if you start them with the education as early as as college, knowing that they're gonna come into some money, the mindset is different because now you're thinking in terms of, Okay,
how do I actually spend money. Now, I know I could go out and I can fucking go blow a bag on whatever it is I want, But how do I spend money the right way in order to make sure that in the long run, I'm still gonna be able to be able to take care of everything that I need to take care of right now, because at the end of the day, like you said, those problems don't go away. The thing is with I think Big
said at the business, more money, more problems. But the thing is, a lot of individuals don't see like you know, I mean when we come into money, we don't come into money with education of how to spend the fucking bread considering you know, when you think about you know, uh uh, you know the on the other side where you look at white people who come under trust funds and you know, I mean fall into the family business like they're taught this shit from you know what I mean,
from from a jit age of how this whole system of how the money situation works. And then it's like okay, so they understand that. But then on our end, you know, I mean, it's just like an overnight type of situation. One minute you got top rammin in the motherfucking cabinet to I could go and eat that fucking Benny Hanna's
and it's like that's your life. And the thing is, if you don't properly take care of your situation, you put yourself in a motherfucking position to go back to eating top rummen or worse, then you can't get ahead and contribute to the problem that we have in California.
That's on some other shit.
But you know, I mean it begins to you know, I mean that cycle just continue to repeat itself. So I mean, like anything, the first thing that you need to do is make sure that you get education on
any situation that you're going into. So if you're gonna put the motherfucking money into the kids' hands, then you need to go ahead and put the money into the motherfucking education of these kids at the same time, so they don't continue to make the same mistakes that the motherfucker's made before them.
No, and by the way, just and just be you know, as the guy that did the first nil in the country, and of course it was inevitable.
Coach, Okay, soldier boy, I did it first, ask no No.
Based on this conversation, I should run never and I'll do that, But I will say this, I mean, and I completely and Coach, I appreciate your conviction and your insight and few people uniquely positioned to understand it better than you. And but there's no question in my mind when we signed that that this was not what was intended. The world that now is taking place is not what
that legislation was originally about. So I could not agree more in the basis of this conversation, the imperative for the n C two A to immediately reconcile that uh and address this issue. They've got to move on this. In the absence of that, we're looking at state by state moves, but that's going to put states like California
and other states at a competitive disadvantage. So it has to be done at the national level, and they need to move on it quickly, because there's no doubt this was never what was intended.
Yeah, good luck. I hope you can do it. I hope you can do it. Like Seawn, I'm saying, education, that's what this whole thing was supposed to be about. Your a ballplayer, or you're a dancer, or your a scholar. You get you get some help get going to school so you can get your education, you know, And we're forgetting about that. But there's it works to be done.
Well, coach, we we can't. We can't thank you enough for joining us. I mean, I've I've always loved you and appreciated you and and uh, everything you've done in your career and and you're not done yet obviously, and I appreciate how you've just lived your life. Man, you've lived it a glass out full and uh, you've always lived life on borrow of time. And I really appreciate you and always have and we can't thank you for joining us.
And his glass has been overflowing. Next level, first ballot Hall of Fame, the one and only coach, Carol Coach. I appreciate you being here.
Hey, thanks for bringing the Bay area back together with the guys here, it's pretty good.