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Stay tuned to learn more at the end of this episode, or check the show notes for my exclusive invite link.. I'm your host, Brooke Gramer marketing executive and AI enhancement consultant. Today we have a very exciting guest. His name is Osiris Santos. He is a futurist. He's a strategist. And most importantly, he's a creative. Thank you so much Osiris for taking your time thank you. To talk about tech and ai and most importantly, the cool, creative projects you're up to.
So I'll let you, thanks for having me introduce yourself and take it away.
Alright. So I'm Osiris my main thing is. I'm a designer, I work in tech, I work on a wide range of things, from digital experiences to digital products. And currently I work with enterprise companies in finance and medical. So a few of my clients are. Pretty big banks. Okay. I also work with medical device companies working on surgical robotics. Most of these companies, I also help the way that they think about ai.
How many clients do you have at a given time?
That fluctuates, but usually about anywhere from two to four.
Mm-hmm.
I work with pretty large scale companies we work on very focused like products or product experiences. Not like a huge volume, but I work mainly as a consultant. But I'm not just chopping things out the door all the time. Right. I do build stuff separately outside of my regular consulting clients. I work with some smaller businesses and also my own, I build my own products as well. I always have, I have my stuff in the lab which is my experimental stuff.
And some of these are smaller projects, but on average, my bigger clients are just enterprise clients that I work for long periods of time with.
When did you get into the creative field?
Well I've been in design for 18 years now. But I've been a creative for a long time. I started my career as an artist and then, I didn't like being broke as an artist. You get a lot of recognition and you do a lot of cool stuff. Yeah. And you get some big wins financially every once in a while, but it just wasn't sexy enough for me for the type of lifestyle I wanted to live. Mm-hmm.
So I got into more design, which is just more structured, like visual communication and through that I've evolved through different layers of design and strategy. So while I was in production in my earlier years, now I work at the strategic level in design and mostly like experience design. Some people know it as ux as a lot of titles, but yeah. Really it's just all design.
So have you been remote for most your life for these opportunities and projects?
A good portion of it, yeah. There was a time where a lot of things were I would go into companies and I would be an employee and stuff, and then slowly the more you get into the higher levels, it started being like a mix of hybrid. And I really loved that. And, at some point I went remote, fully. So I've been, for most of my career, I've been pretty remote.
Okay, question of the day. When did you start using ai?
Ai? I started dipping my toes into it in like 2021. And then I got my first AI, job contract With this investment, AI tech company we're making a digital product. So it was a product for in-house traders to use as an assistant to their investing strategies. And just helping them move faster. And that was my first dip in 2022. And then after that. I. Started exploring deeper into more of just a wide range of how AI can help.
'cause there we got to play with a lot of different ways that you can use AI at the time. And one of the things I had a huge resistance towards was Midjourney and they loved it there. And I used to joke about it because I was like, this is garbage, as a designer and a creative that's usually the rub, where you push back, and then a few months later, fast forward I'm like, I wanna do something different. And then I just started going all in on ai.
I joined a few clubs one where we met, The Collective yes. And I just went really hard on AI and started. Experimenting a lot, building all types of things for different clients. Whoever wanted to mess with ai. I was like, yeah, I'll help you. Let's let's see what we could do.
Then I started realizing oh, for what I'm doing currently, this has a lot of application and because I already have working in tech, especially as a designer, you get a wide breadth of how to build things and I've, I also have my own company. So I've built services, products, and full on vertically integrated companies. I just started seeing where this started helping in every area.
So then I was like, we're going all in on ai, and that's what I've been going hard on in the last, two and a half years. Really
So a lot of it was just being in the right places and circumstances and environment to be exposed to AI early on. We're recording this podcast February, 2025. How many years ago was about that time?
Well, 2021, I was just dipping my toes. Because it was still very underground and if you're in the techie environment, that's who's talking about it. But 2022, when I started getting my first contract in that space I started seeing the application across the board. And one of the things I realized there was there's the tech side of it and then there's the strategy side of it. And you still have to have context to all this stuff.
For me, my context was really the strategy side of I know how to build things mm-hmm. from start to finish and launch them and support them. I just learned how to apply AI from there. It's been like about two and a half years, really hardcore three years professionally in it.
I'm curious because you said you had some initial pushback with Midjourney and just as a designer and creative
Yeah.
That whole field is very, can feel very threatened by ai. Yeah. And its impact on its work. All of the writer strikes that were going on in Hollywood and, it seems like it's taking a bit of a turn and being embraced a bit more positively. But I'm curious, since you're in that field, what are your thoughts?
Yeah, now I'm like hardcore on all of it. Yeah, I embrace it all. 'cause at some point you realize all right, well I either use this thing or I get replaced by somebody else using this thing. For most of my life, I'm usually pretty up on a lot of tech. And most of my career requires me to just be up on this stuff. At some point you just slowly start embracing it.
The thing I think that maybe becomes overwhelming when you jump into anything new, especially something like AI that has super broad application. Yeah. Is, I know in the early days everybody's which one should I use? Which one should I use? I was like, the one that you practice most? Yes. Because there's thousands of 'em coming out every day. So you just have to understand what do you want to do with it? Because really ai, you just need context to a thing.
And then once you have context to that, like if you're a writer, then you have context to writing. If you're a marketer, you have context to marketing. For me it was because my job requires me to have context to a wide breadth of different, start to end processes that's what really helped me play with a lot of things, but. I don't recommend that to everyone.
Yeah. It's like shiny new object, yeah. There's an app for that. There's a new tool and I like to say keep it simple. Yeah. Whatever your main problem solutions are to just stick and once you find a tool you really like and then eventually you just have all your data in that way. I have a hard time shifting out of chat GPT just because I've used so much of it at this point. It knows me all my problems and projects.
Yeah. So it's been hard, even though all of these new tools are coming out and they're essentially, oh you don't even have to pay for them. And they give you the same services as ChatGPT, but it's hard for me to switch because it has all my data and it knows me in that such engagement level. It's already
trained in your stuff, yeah.
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So we touched a little bit about how AI has, restructured your workflow you and I were chatting Yeah. Before we jumped on. And how that's a big part of your role too, with the strategy you provide with these clients of yours. And I think that's such a big point to make is they say that anybody that's starting fresh and a new company has such a competitive edge because they're starting with this mindset.
Of AI at the forefront versus a lot of companies have to completely restructure the way they think and do a lot of rewiring and reprogramming of their tools and their systems, probably even just their meetings, everything about it. I'm curious how you support companies in that way and what do you feel is the biggest takeaway when you are helping restructure their organizations?
There's different layers of how you can help companies. For me I work on the consulting and strategy side. And then we also build things. So we help companies think about how they approach ai because I think a lot of times what happens is people just
like,
I want AI for my company. And it's right. Well. What do you want it to do? And how do you want to integrate it? And that's another thing with companies. Not every company embraces ai. Yeah. You have to be very careful where you use ai. Some of the bigger clients I work with are US Bank TIAA, big financial institutions that, it's very limited not everybody gets access to AI and the people that do our on innovation or experimental teams, I'm, they have very strict
AI policies.
Yeah. And we use our own, it's almost non-existent, as far as people being able to use it in big corporate enterprise. So right now, those companies, because they have the time and the resources, they're mostly. Hiring people like me and other agencies to start thinking about how they bring it in and start experimenting where they bring it in.
'cause for them, they can't just switch their processes and big moves with just the latest technology that comes out because it's very costly when you have millions and millions of customers. But for most companies that I work with. Typically I'm just guiding them on how to think about ai. Part of it is there's different areas of consulting and strategy and help that I provide. And one of the biggest ones. It's usually in helping leadership rethink how they approach their day to day.
Because a lot of times you can ask oh, build me this, build me that. But if you don't know how to use it. And now implement this into a proper workflow into your company, then it's gonna be chaos. One of the biggest things we do is help you think about how to implement it first as a leader, so you know how to think about it, use it for your strategic planning. And some simple things to get you first, moving a little faster. Maybe that might be like 20% improvement. That's a lot.
That's a whole week added to your month. Yeah. And then, over time that increases and then it compounds and you become very fast, over the course of six months. You could increase your productivity to 50 to 80% sometimes. Depending on your adoption rate. So it's different for everyone, but that's typically where we're focusing is how do you think about this before we start building the things.
Yeah. It's a process of walking before you can run.
Yeah.
I've been supporting. My own personal network clients on a smaller scale, getting into consulting with AI enhancement 'cause essentially you just need to be one step ahead of someone to help them. And so I've been pretty early in the game for an average person to start using these tools and. That's my big piece of advice is, a lot of people run in and they wanna be like, okay, how can I have AI just do everything for me?
Yeah. And it's
Okay, let's scale it back. It's even, getting people to understand that how they index their data is really important. How they name their data and how they manage their information. In a way that AI can use it properly. So you touched on some benefits already. Time saved, money made efficiency. Have there been any challenges or unexpected consequences that you've run in with using AI and adopting it for these bigger corporations or on a personal level?
Yeah, all the time. The same way I had a wall up against certain areas that AI would help, creative and stuff you're always gonna run into human blocks. Yeah. Mostly the majority of it is human blocks. I think that's the number one thing. It's just the resistance that there currently is. And then especially once a leader decides, hey, now. Team, we're going to switch the way we work and I'm gonna ask you to rethink how you do things. That. Never.
Yes. Outside of ai, I work in a lot of like transformational efforts for at companies. So I'm usually coming in when we want to change the way we do things as an organization and. That's always a little chaotic, or if not a lot chaotic because you're changing things. Like people don't adapt very easily to change. Anywhere. Yeah. And then when you're doing it at a larger scale talk about a team of 10, right?
That's already a lot of people that now talk about scale that to 50, scale that to 300 and now an organization of a thousand people. There's a lot of steps before you, can start just throwing tools and technology there. Yeah. It's really my biggest blocks are usually the human side of things.
The human side of things. Yeah, that makes sense. One of my favorite questions to ask everybody Yeah. Is what is your tech stack? What's your technology stack? What apps are you using? And this. Can include things that you've developed yourself or just anything in the app store, any custom gpt, like what are you really into right now? What's moving the needle for your projects?
I mostly use the basics like the winners most things I just stick to the winners. I don't get too complicated. Yeah. In investing, I choose the winners in tech you could, you could get experimental, but I try to do the whole 80 20 thing. I use ChatGPT a lot not only on the GPT side where I make my own gpt. But I also use Claude. And Gemini. And then for Claude and open ai, I use the APIs also because I build a lot of custom things. So chatbots, one tool I really that's out the box. Awesome.
Is type bot. That's for chatbots and a agentic workflows. I use the typical ones like make.com. Zapier, sometimes I mostly use Make and N8N just 'cause. They're a little cheaper, yeah. If you wanna say money, but also I just like their setups make as a great user experience. And because of AI I've also been able to learn how to not necessarily learn how to code. I don't wanna say I'm a developer but I've been able to develop websites and software without knowing code and.
Yes.
I say that very loosely. Yes, there's people that don't know code. I know code at a very I work with a lot of engineers and developers and I lead teams at large scale. So I do have a lot of context in code, but because of ai I've been able to learn code faster. And I think that's if anybody's gonna take anything away, it's yeah, use this to speed up your workflow, but go use your extra time to go.
Gain context to multiple things because if you want to build a good marketer, you have to know marketing. If you want to build a good writer at some level, you have to know different strategies and perspectives on writing. If you're writing for medical there's a style and a format to that, right? Right. If you're writing for marketing for sales there's a style and a format to that, so use your extra time to gain some context maybe.
So for each of these tools that you're using, for instance OpenAI, are you using the most expensive or are you doing the operator where you're creating
agents?
You know,
I do create agents, but I don't exclusively use their ready-made agents. Okay. I'll create my own agents.
Okay.
Because I've learned how to code more. I've gained some more context on things like Python and JavaScript and TypeScript. These are the things that you're gonna need to create not only work with the LLMs, but also work in agentic workflows. Mm-hmm. Especially something like TypeScript and JavaScript. Because of a lot of the AI tools I've been able to jump into more of the programmatic languages.
But yeah, I use the APIs for a lot of those and then I'll create a agentic workflows for the different things I need to build.
Okay. So those were a lot of tools.
Working in tech, you get to play with a lot of things. Yes. So I get to really play with a big, large breadth of things. I get to play in really bigger sandboxes so you can just explore a lot of tools.
Amazing. Do you have insight on how much you would imagine you're spending monthly on all of these tools combined?
With clients, like a lot like with, but for myself just for my experimental space, I'm probably spending like 800 to a thousand bucks a month. Conservatively right now, just, but again, I play with a lot of different systems. And these tools start to add up. Yes. And a lot of the tools that I really go hard on, I do pay for like the agency accounts because, as a consultant you just write it off. Well, you wanna spin up more accounts.
So I get that Accounts that you're able to spin up more accounts for other clients. So that, that does add up too, but, I try to keep it somewhat conservative, when it comes to clients, then I just get whatever they require.
I'm waiting for the, Microsoft Office tool suite of ai. I like what's the perfect package? That's just like a suite of the five major tools that you need versus just there's so many things that you can buy and subscribe to. And I've been doing all these free trials.
Um. I just want a laundry bot.
A laundry bot.
Something that'll fold and hang my clothes we have all this like workflow and work stuff, but yes, I just want robots that do home stuff. You could hire services and like that.
You want the Jetsons, you want that life a robot in your house doing your housework.
Yeah. It is like we've taken away. We've sped up the ability to do your job faster. I actually like what I do. I love doing what I do. That's awesome. I don't love doing laundry, so I would love a bot that just does my laundry even if you hire a maid sometimes it's cool. Yes. But, I don't know. I would think that's like something that should be pretty automatic.
Like we got dishwashers, we should have hang my clothes, do all this color code it, as intelligently as you write my emails I would trade that for emails.
That's my next question I like to end each podcast with is if you could wave a magic wand and create an AI tool that doesn't exist, what would it be? And you can't say laundry bot, 'cause you already said that.
Oh man. Like
maybe more specific to work and strategy.
I've built two versions already for what I like. So I have an assistant before, all this cloning happened or got popular, right? The first thing I ever created was this assistant called Gail. Okay. I called her Gail 'cause I wanted a real kind of normal. Ish name. not
Grok.
Yeah. Somebody pointed it out., I was like, Hey, does that stand for generative AI language? I was like, yeah. I was like, wow. Oh, that's cool. Maybe liaison or something. Did you
trademark that?
Not yet, but I saw there's a few others trying to do that, that's been awesome for me because that was the first thing I built. That was a GPT. Mm-hmm. And then it's blown up to be a white label for. Yeah, most of my clients, 'cause now I just copy paste that and just change, add whatever workflows to it. So that's been my dream one that I, I built from the beginning not knowing where it was gonna go.
That's super cool.
And now I use it to as the baseline for a lot of my agents. Um, What
platform did you build that in?
Well, I started with GPTs when those were like the hot thing. But then now it's the base either GPT or Claude API. 'cause it's the instructions and the knowledge base. Yes. And then I expand it based on whatever a client needs. So sometimes when I deal with larger clients, we're using rag ai, and to call these large libraries beyond just the 20 megabytes that you get. That's been just a little sweet sauce that I built that's been. Like my dream thing.
And now it's been, now it's turned into something bigger and through that we even developed now. A new technology for a company that I'm, we're actually launching next week Yes. Called LeadMe.Pro. Okay. Where we get you hot and warm leads that help you find them and contact them before they ever find you.
So we, it's very simple business we built an AI software that basically, instead of you going to get ads and hoping that people find you and then capturing them, we get you hot leads looking for what you do before you find them. So we will get you their numbers, their emails straight to a list that just populates over time. And we sell it in bulk, different bulks of numbers, like from 50 plus contacts. Um, And we, and that's,
any industry can use that?
Any industry? Yeah. So far any in, we haven't found an industry that we can't help. Basically any industry that uses, that can go do ad keywords. We're basically using that similar technology but we're getting you warm leads, straight to you that you can now go call, email, and hit them up in the moments that they're searching for you. Literally within a minute of them looking for what you're doing.
That's so cool to hear all the projects you're working on. If I could wave a magic wand, I'm gonna try to think of a new one every time I interview someone.
Alright, there you go.
Just this past week and maybe I just don't know how to use Canva to its fullest ability, but I'm spending a lot of time just moving text around and getting, yeah, it'd be nice if I could just. Upload my Word doc and it would just already put it in a template for me and move everything around and add the graphics where they need to go. Because at the moment I'm spending so much time just dragging and dropping and moving and things around.
That's actually pretty funny 'cause one of the major projects I'm working on now is working on automating a design system. And are you familiar with design systems for No. So this is like what us designers at large scale companies use. To move faster. So instead of you having to push all these pixels, every time we have a library of templates of this is a header, this is a button. This is a button for this. Yeah. This is the layout of a page for this.
So different major companies use this like Disney, any bank companies, IBM. This is just how we can all build the same looking and feeling experiences at scale. But now. To your point, pixel pushing is like, why are we still doing this? Like moving dots around. Yes. So now we're actually using AI to automate the production of that. There's versions of this, but they're not perfect, as you can see with some of the website builders and stuff. Yeah. You still have to move stuff around.
So they still help you move faster, but, the way we're doing it is because we have very specific rules for the brands and experiences. We're programming ways that you can now talk to the AI to build. Exactly what you need without you having to do so much pixel pushing. So it's coming is the point.
That's what I imagine. Yeah. Is everything that I want is coming soon. It's just having a bit of patience and to not keep that from you to start now because you wanna start and just learn it because the better you are at just grasping AI versus waiting for the tools to get better.
Yeah.
It's gonna benefit you in the long run. One thing that I would love to talk about since you scratched on it, was just the big shift, the industry, whether that's advertising.
Yeah.
Google searches, search engine optimization, even. SaaS companies, these are all changing and the way that they have set up their algorithms and the way that people search and find information is completely turned on its head. Yeah. And I am, I'm curious, like with your strategy and your clients, how are you implementing new ways of. Catching new clients, getting the name out there, people finding you with AI in the mix now, because it's almost flipped itself completely on its head.
Yeah, we just become searchable in the new areas that well, that's not an easy answer, right? Yeah. That's also why we created this new company LeadMe.Pro,
right?
Because now as a business. Because of how we can now reverse the process of how you get new leads. We're using technology that's not such a secret, but I'm not gonna spill the beans on it, but we built our own, proprietary software. That helps you find. People that are looking for you before they ever find you. That's really powerful because now basically you, so you're
listening to them, you're listening to their thoughts. Well, sometimes I get served ads that are creepy.
Imagine ads, right? We're using the same technology, because of how laws are around information, we're able to do it, you opt into a lot of stuff. So we actually um, yes. Become one of those companies that can pull your information. 'cause your information's out there. So what we do is we basically do the reverse of what Google keywords and AdWords are. Okay. And we just help you know who those people are sooner. So now you could go contact them, but, in the safest way as possible.
Yeah. But that's one way that technology's changing things. 'cause if it wasn't for ai, we wouldn't have been able to figure out this flow to do it at the scale that we're doing it. Because to do this manually, we wouldn't be able to offer it as a product. Like how we created it. It would be a incredibly manual process. Now, because of the way that we've built this software, we can service a thousand customers in a day versus just maybe a few,
right.
From the manual process. Because of a agentic workflows and different combinations of how we use ai now we can automate this entire process, serve both the business and the customer. 'cause now. We can help businesses find leads that are more specific that are actually looking for what they want. You could almost make a sale as, let's say you're looking for lumber. I can probably give you a call or email you within a minute of you doing that search and let you know that I have what you need.
Ooh, creepy but
creepy, but it's also now you you get businesses get to serve you faster with what you need and what you're searching for. Yes. But we're using it to get you what you need as a customer. Yes, it can be creepy in it placed in the wrong hands. So that's another responsibility that we have to take upon ourselves. Yeah. On like how to handle information. There's a lot of legalities around, so we have to be very careful about how we do that, and we have to be mindful of that.
For us, we're not doing anything crazy. We're just helping both sides get what they want faster. Could it get crazier? Sure. But that's where we have to protect ourselves and have our security measures up and all that kind of stuff.
Absolutely. I love that you brought up security. And just legality and measures to be considerate of. Where do you see, because it's kind of like ask for forgiveness right now with AI in a lot of ways. If you're not working for a bigger corporations,
When you're talking about contact information, it could get really like dangerous. So you have to be careful. Yeah. And outside of ai there's also there's things like can, spam laws that protect Yes. People across the world. So really you just have to be a responsible, as a business practitioner of any type. Yeah. Using this technology. Is there a temptation to do a lot of things? If you understand what can be done, sure.
There's temptation, but luckily we do have organizations that keep you in check 'cause like for basic things like contact information there's rules, there's also depending on what industry you're in, like medical, there's HIPPA. I think the average person isn't like doing malicious things the capabilities there. But security is gonna be one of those things that I think outside of the wave and shift that we're going through of developers and programmers some are at risk some not.
And I say that lightly because it really depends on who's using it, right? Yeah. And what jobs? It's it's gonna replace a lot of jobs, but it's, I don't like to say it replace, it's gonna evolve a lot of the way we do things. But security engineers big ups to them. 'cause there's gonna be a lot of roles for them. Yeah. We need to secure a lot of this data that's flowing in and out of all these systems. And that's another thing that I think, reason why it's a slow wave.
'cause you got companies like OpenAI and Claude and with OpenAI, although they're like the most popular, you already hear a lot of the data leaks and stuff that happen. Yes. Or the way that they take your information and now it's on their thing. Yeah. You have to be mindful of where you put your information and that's why it's important in the future to probably build your own platforms for Yes. For things that you need to keep close to the pocket.
Absolutely. Well, this has been one of those podcasts where you just wanna. Listen to it twice because there's just so much information in it. I can't thank you enough because you have such a vast industry knowledge and experience. What is one thing that you'd want listeners to have a key takeaway to get from this episode? From what you've shared today?
Just really take your time and take advantage of this technology to learn the rate that you can learn these days, take your time because you can overwhelm yourself. But man, if you like learning, it's such an amazing time to be in because for me, I love absorbing and this technology allows you to just really empower yourself to almost be limitless. Yeah, because the fact that I can code now, that's pretty wild. I wasn't coding a few years ago and I don't even want to be a developer.
But now I could do that without the wall of having to learn super complex things where it takes me years to do it. I could condense that into a matter of months and I think the breadth of that it gives you a space really take advantage to read up on stuff wherever you wanna play in, man, you have so much opportunity to gain context on it now. Which is, it's awesome. There's barely any barriers right now, so take advantage of that.
I agree. I agree. If listeners wanna connect with you, where should they go to find out?
They could find me on my website. I'm very easy to find osirissantos.com. I'm on Instagram. I'm Osiris Santos. Okay, amazing. And and then my other company is LeadMe.Pro, just like that no.com. It's Lead me.pro. Lead
me.pro. Yeah. Well, I can't thank you enough for just taking the time to be here today. I learned so much and I'm gonna look into some of the tech stack. Uses an apps that you're using. Just out of my own research tonight, so I'm excited. Enjoy. Thank you so much, Osiris. do you have a cool use case on how you're using AI and wanna share it? DM me. I'd love to hear more and feature you on my next podcast. Until next time, here's to working smarter, not harder.
See you on the next episode of How I Ai.
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