[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Housewives of True Crime. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Tabitha, your True Crime Housewife, and I'm bringing you real crimes, real twists, and searching for real justice every week. [SPEAKER_01]: I've got a brand new disco biscuit riding shotgun, sometimes a fan, sometimes a friend, but someone always fabulous. [SPEAKER_01]: So grab whatever you're drinking these days, press play, and let's talk crime in the Carpool line.
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome, welcome, hello, I was of True Crime, happy Monday, happy Monday, I'm going to predict the future right now. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to predict that Jenny's kids and my kids are [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, oh, on my way, but like, you don't think they're going to go back before that. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I, I'm not in Texas right now, so I can't tell you. [SPEAKER_01]: So if that's why you're watching our YouTube, you will see that both of us are remote.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I know they're not going back to school till Thursday. [SPEAKER_01]: And let's see what the weather. [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, go back to school. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh, no, definitely by Thursday. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, maybe I'm saying Thursday. [SPEAKER_02]: But Monday, first is all my nizzle. [SPEAKER_01]: They're back at school. [SPEAKER_02]: I would think at like the very worst, it will be late start on Thursday. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, maybe. [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe.
[SPEAKER_01]: So worst stuck in this Texas storm or I was stuck but I'm not stuck anymore, but Jenny is stuck. [SPEAKER_01]: And I will tell you if you all have been stuck, [SPEAKER_01]: there is a show that is all the rage right now that I have been told by multiple people and even was in our bunker of thread. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, did you see that show that they suggested? [SPEAKER_02]: No, you know what, I never went and clicked on it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I saw a bunch of people talking about it and some saying like they weren't into it in the beginning, but then they were or something, right? [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to show it last night. [SPEAKER_01]: It's called Heady Rivalry. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: You're not watching it. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's your children around. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, like a hunting wife's kind of situation. [SPEAKER_01]: It is like a hunting wife's situation with men. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: It's two hockey players that... [SPEAKER_01]: get it on in the first episode is okay. [SPEAKER_01]: So I've only made it through the first episode. [SPEAKER_01]: So and one of our bunco people they said the first episode was hard to get through and then my other girlfriend was like at the end I was crying. [SPEAKER_01]: It was so amazing. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: So I haven't got into the like this is amazing part.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have only gotten to like holy shit. [SPEAKER_01]: This is like very [SPEAKER_02]: But full, he prepared. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, be very prepared for that. [SPEAKER_01]: Both men are very attractive. [SPEAKER_01]: The Russian guy is like fully my type of guy. [SPEAKER_01]: Like he is so good looking to me. [SPEAKER_01]: The only thing is, I'm not really into the Russian accent. [SPEAKER_01]: I find it a little harsh. [SPEAKER_01]: I would have liked. [SPEAKER_02]: I love accents.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, [SPEAKER_02]: I like that. [SPEAKER_02]: I guess I don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: I'd need to hear it again. [SPEAKER_01]: You'll watch it. [SPEAKER_01]: You'll watch it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So, anyways, you should start it and tell me what you think Casey is not going to get to it. [SPEAKER_01]: I'll just tell you right now. [SPEAKER_02]: You're going to die. [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I have been binge watching since we've been locked down.
[SPEAKER_02]: And another one to not watch in front of your children and Carly came into the room. [SPEAKER_02]: It was tried. [SPEAKER_02]: She's like, this looks really interesting and wanted to keep it on. [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, gosh, why don't we not put it so good? [SPEAKER_02]: Love after a lock-up. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh, I, it's like absolutely, but it's so good. [SPEAKER_02]: Dude, it is so ejecting.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, and it's kind of reminds me of like a 90 day fiance or something, it's like 90 day fiance. [SPEAKER_02]: But oh my god, the amount of sexual tension in these episodes, I'm like, okay, noted. [SPEAKER_02]: If you ever want to have like some really good passionate, you know what? [SPEAKER_02]: date somebody in prison and go pick them up when they get out. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, these people weren't even making it back to the freaking hotel room.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were pulling over and like doing it in the woods. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's crazy. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not kidding you. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it was like, and then they [SPEAKER_02]: Or if they did make it to the hotel, they were like straight into that shower and they were like shut in the crew, the camera crew out. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh, that is so funny.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's been hilarious, but also just going back to like the whole hooch and the stuff that they make in prison and how resourceful they are. [SPEAKER_02]: This girl came out looking like she had mascara on and the guy was like, how do you have mascara on? [SPEAKER_02]: And she said coffee and toothpaste. [SPEAKER_01]: Stop. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, in that great life, I would burn my, oh my gosh, my eyes would burn so bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you like, she probably just has gone used to it? [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I don't know if they like mix it and then like use something. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it certainly didn't look perfect, but I would have never guessed it was toothpaste and coffee. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and there have been multiple episodes where stuff like that has come into play where I'm like, what? [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it is so wild.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this one woman was, which, oh, she was the worst of them all. [SPEAKER_02]: And she was totally using this guy for money when she got out, but she was making a cake or whatever. [SPEAKER_02]: And she was making the frosting. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, most people would just [SPEAKER_02]: by a can or make it by scratch or whatever, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Well, she was scraping the frosting between the two cookies.
[SPEAKER_02]: She was like scraping that into a bowl and then she had other random ingredients or what are, and that's what she said. [SPEAKER_02]: That's how they made frosting when they would make cakes in prison. [SPEAKER_02]: So she was literally like opening every single cookie and scraping the frosting out of every cookie. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my goodness. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it is wild. [SPEAKER_02]: You have to watch it. [SPEAKER_02]: You have to watch it. [SPEAKER_01]: I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Ashley goes really great with our episodes today because I'm talking about somebody in prison. [SPEAKER_01]: No, yes, that's perfect. [SPEAKER_01]: It is perfect. [SPEAKER_01]: So let's get into it. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let's go. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, dokey artichoke. [SPEAKER_01]: Now today I have a case to share with you. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a wrongful conviction story that spans over two decades. [SPEAKER_01]: You like those wrongful conviction stories. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I do.
[SPEAKER_01]: They are actually, I think, my favorite thing to cover. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and I think because I get like emotionally invested, I told you on Patreon last week that I cried in the case, like I literally this case, um, [SPEAKER_01]: is one that is really heartfelt and I just got emotional over it. [SPEAKER_01]: So I am talking about the [SPEAKER_01]: He goes by JJ and he was a man that spent 23 years in prison for a murder that he did not commit.
[SPEAKER_01]: The story begins in Harlem, New York on January 27th, 1998. [SPEAKER_01]: I think Jenny were like five years old at the time. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god, that's not true. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god. [SPEAKER_01]: I was just about to turn 18 and I know I know you are much older than five but you're still younger than me. [SPEAKER_02]: So um not bad that much. [SPEAKER_02]: You act as if like you're my grandma.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're here in high school, it's not just you, it's like anybody who's like two years older than I am. [SPEAKER_02]: They act as if they are my grandma and I'm like new guys. [SPEAKER_02]: We're like two years apart. [SPEAKER_02]: You're not that old. [SPEAKER_02]: We want to go to school in 1998. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, okay. [SPEAKER_01]: All right, then I guess you're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did that took me second to do a little bit of math, but yes, yes, okay, it's here I graduated, so that's like pretty easy for me to know. [SPEAKER_01]: that let's go to Harlem. [SPEAKER_01]: It's in Upper Manhattan and there is a lot of history in Harlem that I could go on for days, but it is the home with a pollinator, the home of many famous musicians, but there is also a very rough side to Harlem.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like poverty is more than double the national [SPEAKER_01]: And with both of those things comes a lot of violence, gang activity, drugs, and just plain survival. [SPEAKER_01]: And in the 90s, when this case took place, crime was at an all-time high in Harlem. [SPEAKER_01]: So take that into consideration.
[SPEAKER_01]: The day was like I told you, January 27th, 1998, and there was this illegal gambling parlor on Frederick Douglass Boulevard, which some of you who were familiar with Harlan probably know where that is, but basically it was like this back room spot where people would go to place bets and play numbers. [SPEAKER_01]: It was run by a retired NYPD detective named Albert Ward. [SPEAKER_01]: Now on this particular afternoon, two armed men burst into this gambling joint to rob it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because obviously, it's a place where there's cash, right? [SPEAKER_01]: There's also drug dealing going on there. [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of, it's bad scene. [SPEAKER_01]: And even though the sky was a cop, obviously, he was brick and a law. [SPEAKER_02]: By the way, do you realize today is January 27th? [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh. [SPEAKER_02]: It's January 7th. [SPEAKER_01]: Ah, when we're telling the story, that's so great. [SPEAKER_01]: They even know that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't even like put two and two together. [SPEAKER_01]: That's so nuts. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I just thought I'd went that out. [SPEAKER_01]: Raisy. [SPEAKER_01]: And then I picked this story of Hall of Stories. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: The time's saying, wild. [SPEAKER_01]: Wild. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So I knew you could catch that so nuts.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so Albert Ward, the guy that was running at the retired cop, he was 59 years old and he of course pulls out his gun right away. [SPEAKER_01]: And the guys that were Robin and joint, they were starting to tie people up. [SPEAKER_01]: One guy had like duct tape with him and the other guy started to struggle with Ward, right? [SPEAKER_01]: And this particular guy, the gunman, not Ward. [SPEAKER_01]: He had the gun. [SPEAKER_01]: Ward is the retired Petty guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: He has gunned. [SPEAKER_01]: There's another guy, his name is T, or that's what they call him. [SPEAKER_01]: T. He pulls out a gun and shoots Albert Ward killing him. [SPEAKER_01]: So right away, the two robbers fled. [SPEAKER_01]: And now being a NYPD cop or a retired one, you can imagine that when the police are called, they are going to do everything they can to figure out who did this and get those guys behind bars.
[SPEAKER_01]: So within hours, they had plastered the neighborhood with a composite sketch of the shooters based on the witnesses descriptions, because the joint was full of people, right? [SPEAKER_01]: There was like two guys doing a drug deal, there's a cop that's dead, so he can't he can't make out anybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's like a few other people in the joint that's [SPEAKER_01]: So the police, they set up a mobile command center in Harlem and they have dozens of officers that were on the hunt. [SPEAKER_01]: And witnesses from the gambling parlor gave a very consistent initial description. [SPEAKER_01]: The shooter was light-skinned black man with braids or cornrows. [SPEAKER_01]: And his accomplice, the guy with the duct tape, was a darker skinned black man.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mind you, everybody in the joint also was also, they were all black. [SPEAKER_01]: So police had a rough idea of these two suspects, one light skin with braids and, oh, and also, a couple of the guys were like, oh, we think it's this guy named Mustafa. [SPEAKER_01]: So that name became like a key focus right away, which is funny because that's also my tennis instructor. [SPEAKER_02]: I know, I was going to say Mustafa, I love Mustafa.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Mustafa was for sure, only five years old at the time. [SPEAKER_02]: Mustafa for sure, like fired me from tennis before I even decided to keep going. [SPEAKER_02]: Before you started, [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think he'd always say Jenny. [SPEAKER_02]: Jenny. [SPEAKER_02]: Jenny. [SPEAKER_02]: Sorry, Ms. Stoffa.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: So Ms. Jim, this was the first name that was kind of sent around the police department, like this guy, Ms. Stoffa, who also goes by the name T. Okay? [SPEAKER_01]: They have a full room of eyewitnesses to the murder, so they bring in the witnesses kind of one by one to start like asking questions, look through mugshot books, and immediately one of the witnesses points out the accomplice.
[SPEAKER_01]: His name is Dary Daniels and he's known like he's a local guy from Harlem with a history of robberies. [SPEAKER_01]: He's dark complexion criminal record includes like, you know, everything that you would think from a guy like this. [SPEAKER_01]: And so they felt very confident arresting Daniels now. [SPEAKER_01]: Moostafa, I'm gonna say Moostafa, we don't really know his name is Moostafa or not.
[SPEAKER_01]: We just know that this is kind of the name running around the light-scan shooter. [SPEAKER_01]: He's still at large, or so they thought. [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so the police, they were desperate to ID the shooter because obviously he's when I killed the retired officer, so they bring in a couple more of the guys. [SPEAKER_01]: That were there. [SPEAKER_01]: Lorenzo Woodford, he was a 45-year-old guy. [SPEAKER_01]: He was there doing a drug deal. [SPEAKER_01]: They bring him in.
[SPEAKER_01]: He gives the same description as everybody else. [SPEAKER_01]: Lyskin black guy. [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't say Moostalka, but he says maybe the guy has kind of reddish hair doesn't know the name. [SPEAKER_01]: Then they tracked down the other guy that was doing the drug deal at the scene. [SPEAKER_01]: And this guy's name is Augustus Brown. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, when they tracked a gustous down, he ends up having, like, I don't know, 10 bags of heroin on him at the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they bring him in and they are like, you better tell us who this guy is. [SPEAKER_01]: Who? [SPEAKER_01]: robbed the joint because if you don't tell us, well, you're going to go down for this drug situation you got going on, hidden in your pants. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And so they give him a book of mug shots with 1800 photos in it. [SPEAKER_01]: Whoa! [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of guys to look through.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: Everything's just a blend together after, like, number 20. [SPEAKER_02]: Two first. [SPEAKER_02]: I've never, like, looked at a lineup, but I would imagine that you can't legitimately pick somebody out out of an 1800 person lineup. [SPEAKER_02]: No, you can't. [SPEAKER_02]: That's ridiculous. [SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's ridiculous. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I was even in a lineup. [SPEAKER_01]: I went to a lineup of a crime that I... [SPEAKER_01]: had witnessed.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was hard for me because things that they had tattoos and stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I couldn't even, they wouldn't let me look at the tattoos. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's kind of how I could identify somebody, especially with the tattoos that these guys had on their body. [SPEAKER_01]: So they were very recognizable. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I couldn't look at them. [SPEAKER_01]: But a lineups are hard. [SPEAKER_01]: And it had they give me like 1800 people to look through.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no way. [SPEAKER_01]: No. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, and so this guy, he after looking through 1800 photos, he points out a photo of a guy named John Adrian Belaskas, and he says, that's your guy, but his eyes look different in the picture. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, he doesn't claim to know this guy. [SPEAKER_01]: He has no idea who JJ is. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what John Adrian goes by. [SPEAKER_01]: He goes by JJ.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he doesn't recognize him from the neighborhood or anything. [SPEAKER_01]: He just says, that's the guy, although his eyes look a little different. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, JJ's mugshot had popped up by sheer chance in that book because, [SPEAKER_01]: he got arrested for a shoplifting incident that actually he had a receipt for so he shouldn't have been arrested.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like, it got dropped and his records were sealed, but this mugshot had slipped through the cracks they didn't take it out and so his mugshot on this book. [SPEAKER_01]: sounds kind of Hispanic, not lights in black, I with cornrows. [SPEAKER_01]: And I will tell you that you're right. [SPEAKER_01]: JJ was 22 years old. [SPEAKER_01]: He was not from Harlem.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was living in the Bronx, and he was a father of two young boys and had never ever been convicted of any kind of violent crime. [SPEAKER_01]: So the only reason that he was even in this lineup was by a mistake. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: police don't really care. [SPEAKER_01]: There's no physical evidence at the scene. [SPEAKER_01]: Time, JJ to the crime. [SPEAKER_01]: There's no fingerprints. [SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing.
[SPEAKER_01]: They have a like a, I think the shooter had touched a, like a ballot or something like a piece of paper. [SPEAKER_01]: But at that time, they didn't have touch DNA or anything like that, right? [SPEAKER_01]: So they don't have, [SPEAKER_01]: anything. [SPEAKER_01]: All they have are these witnesses that that you know the eyewitnesses. [SPEAKER_01]: So but they didn't care. [SPEAKER_01]: They were like this guy says it's JJ. [SPEAKER_01]: Guess what? [SPEAKER_01]: It's JJ.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they go and arrest JJ. [SPEAKER_01]: Now they then show JJ's picture to these guys again. [SPEAKER_01]: And each one of them says [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's the guy. [SPEAKER_01]: Like I say, J.J. is a not light skin black eye. [SPEAKER_01]: And he did not have brights. [SPEAKER_02]: He and there were multiple witnesses who described what the shooter looked like. [SPEAKER_02]: Correct. [SPEAKER_02]: And they all described Hannah the state.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not like one said this and one said that. [SPEAKER_02]: No, everybody was consistent. [SPEAKER_01]: Now when they arrested J.J. [SPEAKER_01]: He did not even think that he would be facing like in prison. [SPEAKER_01]: He didn't think anything. [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, you've got to a wrong guy. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm correct. [SPEAKER_01]: I think JJ's dad worked for law enforcement.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he had died like 10, his dad had died 10 months prior to his arrest, but he trusted the system. [SPEAKER_01]: He was like, [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't me. [SPEAKER_01]: Give me a lie detector test. [SPEAKER_01]: His attorney said, don't do the lie detector test. [SPEAKER_01]: So he didn't. [SPEAKER_01]: He just kind of went with the system because he believed in the system.
[SPEAKER_02]: You totally, because you're just thinking when you know that you are that innocent, you think, well, surely it's going to work itself out. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you think that. [SPEAKER_01]: Right, and he thought that. [SPEAKER_01]: He definitely thought that. [SPEAKER_01]: And also, he, they already had arrested, you know, dairy Daniels. [SPEAKER_01]: And so he's like, this guy is going to say he doesn't know me. [SPEAKER_01]: I never met that guy in my life.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know who you're talking about. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, when they showed dairy Daniels, his photo, he said, yeah, that's the guy. [SPEAKER_01]: Wow. [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, he was also nowhere near Harlem. [SPEAKER_01]: And so he thinks that he's going to get off the police on the other hand. [SPEAKER_01]: They are fixated on taking this guy down. [SPEAKER_01]: JJ Velaskas was sent to trial in 1999 for first degree murder.
[SPEAKER_01]: The prosecutions case rested entirely on these eyewitness testimony, which we already know was problematic. [SPEAKER_01]: They claimed five different witnesses identified JJ as the shooter. [SPEAKER_01]: But get this, Jenny. [SPEAKER_01]: And during the trial, they called one eyewitness, she was the 86 year old lady, 84, 86, she was old all.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when they asked, because you know when they get the witness on this, or they get the witnesses on the stand, they say, [SPEAKER_01]: Who do you see the man that did this in the right way? [SPEAKER_01]: Right, in the letter. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, point out something that they're wearing or whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: So they say, do you see the man in this room today? [SPEAKER_01]: That is the perpetrator to this crime.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she pointed to a man in the jury box. [SPEAKER_01]: What? [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: I know, but they're going to, but let me guess. [SPEAKER_02]: They said that she, [SPEAKER_02]: was what it was doing now. [SPEAKER_01]: They kind of just laughed it off. [SPEAKER_01]: Wow. [SPEAKER_01]: Another problem is her age, right? [SPEAKER_01]: They did not take that seriously. [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're thinking that she's seen I all or she can see or whatever it is. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how the trial went down where they just kind of were like, okay, you're dismissed right after that. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I totally. [SPEAKER_02]: They're like, okay, thank you. [SPEAKER_02]: Have a good day. [SPEAKER_02]: What are you doing?
[SPEAKER_01]: Another prosecution witness was the drug dealer, Augustus Brown, who, you know, cut this deal to avoid charges, Brown testified and identified JJ, but years later he had [SPEAKER_01]: to say it was JJ. [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, and he actually signed an affidavit recanting his identification saying he was coerced by detectives and that he got the wrong guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he wasn't only one to recant a third eyewitness Philip Jones later came forward and swore that the police fed him the identification and [SPEAKER_01]: if he testified. [SPEAKER_01]: So the witness IDs were a mess. [SPEAKER_01]: They were covert. [SPEAKER_01]: They were like, and clearly were the guy doesn't even look like who they said they were looking for.
[SPEAKER_01]: And his name is Novostafa, ether, which I know like we don't know if this guy's real name is [SPEAKER_01]: But it's not, it's not looking like this is the good way, but these police have their eye on the price of just getting this done. [SPEAKER_01]: So, one person was missing from the eyewitness list to go up on the stand.
[SPEAKER_01]: and that was the very accomplice dairy Daniels who took a plea deal of 12 years and was only shown a photo of JJ and asked if this is a guy that shot Ward, which he just all he said was yes, okay? [SPEAKER_01]: Never ever heard from Daniels again, which makes me like, be like, okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_01]: Usually you're usually your, you know, codependent.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're gonna give them a plea deal, [SPEAKER_01]: part of that plea deal is you are going to get on the stand and test if I get held loosely. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just say something and then go live under a rock. [SPEAKER_01]: No, and they don't even call that guy number again was that guy heard from ever again. [SPEAKER_01]: He actually heard this 12 years and he was out. [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: He will not talk about this case at all, but dude, like that's a red flag. [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and I didn't even tell you this, but JJ had an alibi. [SPEAKER_01]: JJ said at the exact time of the murder, he was home in the Bronx on the phone with his mom planning to visit his dad's grave. [SPEAKER_01]: So his dad's birthday was the day after the shooting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so he was on the phone with his mom talking about going to visit his dad's grave for the birthday because the first time I got you'll do his dad had died 10 months ago. [SPEAKER_01]: And so he really wanted to go visit dad. [SPEAKER_01]: And so there is a phone call that is recorded on phone records showing a 74 minute phone call. [SPEAKER_01]: From JJ's home line to his mom's house line in New York online not even like a cell phone that peed somewhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like this is a line full of our home lines and As soon as JJ got arrested his mom was like wait, I was on the phone with you [SPEAKER_01]: and went straight to the phone company to pull the records. [SPEAKER_01]: His mom was like, this didn't happen. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it not happened. [SPEAKER_01]: You were on the phone with me. [SPEAKER_01]: I know this. [SPEAKER_01]: We also know this because it was your dad's birthday the next day.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, all this like important details are like running through your brain. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like what happened that day? [SPEAKER_01]: And that was a pretty like, I mean, [SPEAKER_01]: you kind of remember those kind of things. [SPEAKER_01]: I think any other thing you're talking about, you don't really remember, but you're like, oh, so JJ's mom took the stand to back this up and so did his girlfriend.
[SPEAKER_01]: They said they were arranging that and the reason that they were talking so long, I guess JJ's girlfriend and the mom were not getting along and JJ's like it's important for both of you to be there with me. [SPEAKER_01]: So get your shit together, women, and not [SPEAKER_01]: you know, whatever you have against each other and let's go business and yeah, it's going to make it work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the prosecution tried to obviously poke holes in this alibi and they argued that maybe it wasn't JJ on the phone, like what 20 year old guy talks to their mom for over an hour, which I will say that does give me pause a little bit. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, usually yes, but I will say like when [SPEAKER_02]: Casey and his family was going through that stuff with his dad.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, I could see a conversation lasting that long under those circumstances. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, actually, if Casey was talking to his mom for 74 minutes, at any point, I would definitely think this J.J. guy would definitely be on the firm for 74 minutes. [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: That's my point. [SPEAKER_02]: He can do it. [SPEAKER_02]: He can do it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I case he's a man if he words and JJ is not a man if he words.
[SPEAKER_01]: JJ is a writer and he is a public speaker now and like so I'm going to get to that. [SPEAKER_01]: But like he just knowing him, he would be on the phone for some more minutes. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it makes sense. [SPEAKER_01]: It checks out to me. [SPEAKER_01]: They also kind of said like maybe it was the girlfriend or maybe there was the discrepancy in the phone bill and they got the times raw. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, they've just kind of pushing doubt into the jury's mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they have their minds made up. [SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, the way our system is is that a lot of times the jury members have their mind made up before they even get to the jury box before they even hear from the first witness, you know, like it's if you are going to a murder trial and there's somebody for murder your mind is usually you're probably at like 75% or more that that person is guilty.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just, it's, it's unfair, but yeah, I get that you're moving beyond a reasonable doubt except for the fact that you already think that they're guilty. [SPEAKER_02]: So you're really strong with my mind because if you look at facts and statistics, it's probably, and I mean, certainly someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it's probably more rare that you actually have somebody who's being [SPEAKER_02]: who's on trial for something that they didn't commit, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I feel like 95, 98% of the time, it's the people who did it who are on trial, right? [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think that's actually a very valid point that I never thought about, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Like you kind of, it's very rare that somebody is on trial for something like that that they didn't do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't know if it's to succeed in that, but they do say that there's about, there's like, I think two to five percent roughly of people in prison that are wrongfully convicted. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's right. [SPEAKER_01]: I have heard you say that. [SPEAKER_01]: So, before. [SPEAKER_01]: Or a lot of people. [SPEAKER_02]: It is a lot of people, but also that is very low if you think about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is low, so what you're saying where it's probably pretty common, where people go into it, being like, it would be very, very rare if you didn't do this. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, kind of go into it and that mindset. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, the odds of you being wrongfully convicted are two to five [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is low, however, if you get somebody that is wrongfully or like, you know, wrongfully tried the possibility of them being convicted is very high.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I could see that. [SPEAKER_01]: I could see that. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that is very scary. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's a tough one. [SPEAKER_01]: Fortunately, the jury bought the state's version. [SPEAKER_01]: And they thought maybe the mom or the girlfriend or both of them were lying. [SPEAKER_01]: And I can also see that because they're like, they have a motive to lie. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the girlfriend has kids with this guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the mom, it's her only child, not if the mom had five kids probably still be like, you know, saving our son, but this is her only child. [SPEAKER_01]: And this is also the baby daddy, you know, yeah, so despite of lack of physical evidence and credible [SPEAKER_01]: to second degree murder which is better than first degree and he was sentenced to 25 to life in prison. [SPEAKER_01]: So he insisted right away he was like, you know, this is not good for anybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are all losing here because I am the wrong guy. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: He was in complete denial. [SPEAKER_01]: I can't, he thought for sure he was walking away, but it's an attestancing prison for decades. [SPEAKER_01]: They actually did an interview with a couple of jury members, and one woman was actually crying because she said that she did not wanna convict him, really, another thing that is really like, [SPEAKER_01]: I can see this happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot is that you've got 12 people. [SPEAKER_01]: They were sequestered so they couldn't go home and they were in the jury room for three days. [SPEAKER_01]: It was Friday and she was like there was two holdouts. [SPEAKER_01]: Me and another person that were like he's not guilty and she's like [SPEAKER_01]: She's like, I just finally gave up and was like, fine, I'll change my vote to guilty. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: She has to sit with that her entire life, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Going like, I think I put an innocent person behind bars. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not feel good. [SPEAKER_01]: She's crying like 25 years later because she has carried that with her the whole time. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so JJ goes into the New York prison system 23 years old looking to 25 to light and sing sing maximum security prison in New York and you can imagine that place is no joke. [SPEAKER_01]: at my first.
[SPEAKER_01]: JJ went in as many prisoners do going, you know, doing the day and day out, go to the yard, lift weights, run around, back to the cell, but after a while and after telling some guys about his case, he was persuaded to get out of the yard and into the library. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, he and self says, like, nothing good happens in that yard. [SPEAKER_01]: That's where I can imagine lots of fights are. [SPEAKER_01]: That's where segregation happens. [SPEAKER_01]: That's where drugs.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he took the advice of these older guys. [SPEAKER_01]: And he took himself to the library. [SPEAKER_01]: If for nothing else, he said he could watch videos. [SPEAKER_01]: You could watch like videos, I guess, in this library. [SPEAKER_01]: If you wrote about the videos that you watched are the movies, and if you try to stand still. [SPEAKER_01]: He was like, fine, I'll go to the library and this is where JJ learned that he had a love of writing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And from there, he was very dedicated to finding personal growth and helping others. [SPEAKER_01]: And so in [SPEAKER_01]: prison. [SPEAKER_01]: He earned two college degrees in behavioral science. [SPEAKER_01]: He became a certified paralegal. [SPEAKER_01]: He started giving organizations in prison. [SPEAKER_01]: And he just started to dig into his own case. [SPEAKER_01]: He basically became a jail health lawyer and an advocate. [SPEAKER_01]: He helped other inmates.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was called like the One Man Innocent Project because he spent so much time assisting others in prison. [SPEAKER_01]: And he really grew. [SPEAKER_01]: He became like, [SPEAKER_01]: a very big leader.
[SPEAKER_01]: In 2013, while still in prison, JJ co-founded an initiative called Voices from Within, which is a project they helped at risk youth and they would like speak to them about gun violence and these guys would video themselves talking about crime and gun violence [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Jay Jay also never stopped fighting for himself. [SPEAKER_01]: He filed appeals and post-conviction motions and every single time this man was given a glimmer up hope he was shocked down.
[SPEAKER_01]: The prosecution every time would show up guns ablazing to not even hear the defenses [SPEAKER_01]: theory, which was like, dude, when you hear it, you're like, how did the sky even get behind bars? [SPEAKER_01]: First in the first place, yeah, every time the DA would go to the judge and be like, no, we don't think so.
[SPEAKER_01]: And every time the judge would just side with the DA, which [SPEAKER_01]: It happens every time, you know, like, yeah, not every time, but most of the time, right, right on JJ wasn't the only one fighting. [SPEAKER_01]: for JJ.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think now around 2002 on Thanksgiving Day, JJ's case caught the attention of an investigative journalist named Dan Slipian from Date Line NBC, which is kind of funny because we were just talking about wrongful conviction cases and how like date lines vary centered on like victim [SPEAKER_01]: But this side Dan is a real special human. [SPEAKER_01]: He would be the guy that changed everything for JJ. [SPEAKER_01]: And I honestly think Dan is an angel, like a living angel.
[SPEAKER_01]: JJ's mom was in the prison on Thanksgiving day with JJ's two sons. [SPEAKER_01]: And at the time, I think there were like, I don't know, 85 or 84 or something like that. [SPEAKER_01]: And Dan was there investigating another wrongful conviction. [SPEAKER_01]: JJ's mom overheard for JJ overheard that he was going to be there. [SPEAKER_01]: And he was like a dayline producer and he's like no one's hearing no one's hearing me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so JJ's mom goes there to the prison to just try to talk to Dan, like she just sits there waiting for this like dayline guy to show up. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, while he shows up and the mom goes up to him, and I'm going to play a little insert here of the date line and Dan's recollection of what happened that day. [SPEAKER_05]: I would put myself in front of a train for him. [SPEAKER_05]: I would take a bullet for him. [SPEAKER_05]: I know it's a motion.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's among the closest people in my life. [SPEAKER_05]: JJ, and I want to talk about your relationship, but I want to talk about those little boys, because from that moment on, you were behind bars for another 20 years. [SPEAKER_05]: What was taken from them in that time, and how hard was it for you to be away from them? [SPEAKER_05]: What kept you going at that time? [SPEAKER_00]: great questions. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say it starts with the fact that what they took from both of us, they took the right to be a father for me and they took the right to have a father present from them. [SPEAKER_00]: I would lies with lived in pictures, not in real time. [SPEAKER_00]: The only real time we had was on visits where you can barely do anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: And for the first 10 years of my children's life, as a father, I'm scarred because they spent five days in school and one day in prison, and only had one day to build their social lives. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's just not the life for a child. [SPEAKER_05]: They deserve better. [SPEAKER_05]: You continued to give every piece of evidence you could to Dan for his investigations. [SPEAKER_05]: You continued to ask for retrial after retrial.
[SPEAKER_05]: You were never granted freedom at that moment. [SPEAKER_05]: How did you keep going? [SPEAKER_00]: Hope, purpose, hope for a better day. [SPEAKER_00]: Hope for the opportunity to be reunited with my family. [SPEAKER_00]: hope that the truth would one day come out and vindicate me and restore me. [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, I've learned there's not going to be any restoration in my life.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just have to deal with what you know with the hand I've been dealt and then purpose. [SPEAKER_01]: So in December, right after that Thanksgiving, JJ wrote a letter to Dan and, of course, at first, Dan did not believe JJ, I mean, what are the chances that there are two wrongfully convicted guys in the same unit in the same area? [SPEAKER_01]: at the same prison. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, you're just jumping on the terrain buddy. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And who doesn't say that they're, they didn't do it. [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody says they didn't do it. [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody says they didn't do it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone says they didn't do it. [SPEAKER_01]: But after some time because Dan like felt so compelled with the mom and the kid and like just, you know, he something about it. [SPEAKER_01]: He was like, I'm going to I'm going to read it. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to read what JJ has sent me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so Dan got around to reading JJ's case. [SPEAKER_01]: And even going and talking to JJ. [SPEAKER_01]: And from JJ's mouth, he told Dan to find him guilty. [SPEAKER_01]: Cause there he's like, you will not find anything pointing to me. [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I didn't do it. [SPEAKER_01]: And he's probably thinking like, except for the five guys that say you did do it, you know? [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So, over the next decade and a half, Dan and the Dateline team track down witnesses, re-interviewed every one, this guy Dan went through the trenches for JJ. [SPEAKER_01]: showing up to Mustafa's house with like this person who the name of Mustafa, I don't know, it was that guy who knows. [SPEAKER_01]: But going to Mustafa's house, going to Daniel's house, showing up with arm guards because he doesn't know what these people are capable of, like, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: He tracked down every single person he could. [SPEAKER_01]: He interviewed everyone and he covered all these flaws. [SPEAKER_01]: The coerced IDs, the inconsistencies, the alibi, everything. [SPEAKER_01]: He had a mountain of evidence that strongly suggested that JJ was innocent. [SPEAKER_01]: And even before Kim Kardashian took to wrongful convictions,
[SPEAKER_01]: J.J. Martin Sheen, Visited Sing Sing to Advocate for J.J. [SPEAKER_01]: Many other people were there advocating for his release. [SPEAKER_01]: Even Roc Nation, Jay-Z's Entertainment Company put support behind this case. [SPEAKER_01]: And then on February 12th, 2012, Dateline NBC aired a special up-out J.J.J's case. [SPEAKER_01]: It was titled Conviction. [SPEAKER_01]: And it laid everything out. [SPEAKER_01]: And it even got an Emmy award, I think, or it was nominated for an award.
[SPEAKER_02]: I need to look this up, I need to watch it. [SPEAKER_02]: I know. [SPEAKER_02]: So, a little more fulfilling than love after Vlaca. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the... [SPEAKER_01]: this case in 2012. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's sad because you feel like, oh my gosh, maybe somebody's going to listen to us now. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, look at all this evidence. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, this guy is innocent. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And so they thought this was it. [SPEAKER_01]: This is it.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is like gunna. [SPEAKER_01]: take us to the finish line Manhattan district attorney's office decided to take another look after this and the DA had um now had a conviction integrity unit and after the date line buzz in 2013 they reinvestigated JJ's conviction. [SPEAKER_01]: But again, that DA was Cyrus Vance Jr. at the time. [SPEAKER_01]: He decided to uphold the conviction, and they were not convinced that there was enough evidence to overturn it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, oh, let me go, they kept him in jail. [SPEAKER_01]: And from there, [SPEAKER_01]: JJ's legal team. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they were not going to give up and neither was he. [SPEAKER_01]: So they filed more motions. [SPEAKER_01]: 440 motions to be exact for you. [SPEAKER_01]: Of course. [SPEAKER_01]: How that is a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: They asserted that there was new evidence and even a Brady violation, which means that prosecution had a disclosed important information, which they hadn't. [SPEAKER_01]: There was Daniel's dad actually said the night before the murder.
[SPEAKER_01]: Daniel's and a friend, Lyskend Black guy with braids, came to his house looking for [SPEAKER_01]: And they never went back to a guy, never asked him, never even told the defense that they had Daniel's dad saying, I could probably identify who he came to my house with to look for money, but that is, I mean, yeah, but nothing. [SPEAKER_02]: There's like no words, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Like that is crazy. [SPEAKER_01]: That is crazy. [SPEAKER_01]: And year after year, nothing stuck.
[SPEAKER_01]: they denied every single time. [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, now with almost all the temps or maybe even all attempts to convince the DA and the judge that JJ was innocent, he decided to go another route with [SPEAKER_01]: looking at JJ, who he had become outside of this crime, like say he committed the crime, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: But now he's a leader. [SPEAKER_01]: He's someone that's really changed per se. [SPEAKER_01]: He had done so much good in prison.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jail them in it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: He could be up for clemency. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not an exoneration, [SPEAKER_01]: It's like who cares at this point. [SPEAKER_02]: He just is exactly better than nothing. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's better than nothing. [SPEAKER_01]: So August of 2021 after 23.7 years behind bars, JJ Belaska's was granted executive clemency by then governor Andrew coma.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember that name on September 9, 2021, JJ was released from sing sing free from prison, but not totally free because you're free to like sleep in your own bed, but you got to be home at nine and have all these rules and you can't leave the state that acting and whatnot. [SPEAKER_02]: and very difficult to get a job and live a real life and like a normal function. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, because you're still victim felon. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, still have that on the record.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: That's so clemency thought, but he actually got a job really quickly because he's like, he's a very, very smart intelligence director of it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he. [SPEAKER_01]: wanted to do good in the world. [SPEAKER_01]: So anyways, Climacy got him out, but it didn't erase his conviction, which I can imagine is very hard. [SPEAKER_01]: And finally, another glimmer of hope came for JJ. [SPEAKER_01]: Alvin Bragg, he was the new Manhattan DA.
[SPEAKER_01]: He took office in 2022 and Bragg created a post-conviction [SPEAKER_01]: So JJ's case is a prime candidate for this, especially with this new technology available, which is like touch DNA. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And I told you they had that slip. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So Bragg ordered a DNA analysis on this slip and the result came back that JJ's DNA was not on it but someone else's was. [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of can be chills right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this DNA evidence combined with all this old new information about this faulty eyewitnesses another thing. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so remember this this buck shot I was telling you about They unsealed it to show everybody else even though it was supposed to be sealed and not even right now available.
[SPEAKER_01]: They also originally, it said that JJ on there on his mug shot said it was he was a latino or Hispanic American and they changed it to black Hispanic, light skin, black Hispanic, what not not even kidding you, like, [SPEAKER_01]: over there to do that, that's so sad. [SPEAKER_01]: And I can gauge it or confess to that they knew he was innocent, like they didn't give a flying up and years and years.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, you don't even have to think outside the box, just think, just open your brain for one second. [SPEAKER_02]: But I don't think that's what it's about all the time. [SPEAKER_02]: I think there are a lot of good people out there that do good work and truly more there are and whatever, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But I do think that there is a portion of people that [SPEAKER_02]: They want to make themselves look good by having a case closed and having these convictions because if they don't find the guy, they look bad, they risk their job. [SPEAKER_02]: And sadly, people are willing to do anything to make themselves look [SPEAKER_02]: better and climb their pedestal data. [SPEAKER_02]: What it's going to do to somebody.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's when call it a win and I hate that because it's not a win. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not about winning. [SPEAKER_01]: It's about justice. [SPEAKER_01]: It's about putting the right person behind bars. [SPEAKER_01]: There's no winning.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody wins anyways, like it sucks at your criminal and it also sucks at somebody had to lose her life like it all sucks like it's but I do want to be clear about something is that [SPEAKER_02]: I know people in that line of work who have done an exceptional job and would never do anything like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know there are so many people out there like that and I personally appreciate the hard work, the efforts, you know, so when I mention these, [SPEAKER_02]: I kind of mean like a 2 to 5% just like the wrongful convictions, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like that 2 to 5% I'm going to talk to Tom, I'm going to talk to Tom Smith, retired NYPD detective about this case and it's going to come out on Wednesday and you're going to hear from the horses melt who was working in this department during this case on what he thinks happened here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, dang, whoa, stay tuned for that because, yeah, I do not, you know, Tom, I know personally and know how ethical this guy is, but he also knows that there was a lot of unethical things happening in the New York police department during this time. [SPEAKER_01]: And so very interesting to talk to him about this. [SPEAKER_01]: I cannot wait because this is one where I'm like, [SPEAKER_01]: Tom, who are you shaking, how does that make what's going on here?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's awesome. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm excited. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, me too. [SPEAKER_01]: With this new evidence and all the stuff on September 30th, 2024, which is just like to not that long ago. [SPEAKER_01]: No, they knew you're a judge. [SPEAKER_01]: officially vacated J. J. Bolasquez conviction and dismissed the indictments.
[SPEAKER_01]: So during this time, outside the courthouse 48-year-old J. J. Bolasquez was surrounded by his family, his friends, his fellow exonaries who supported him. [SPEAKER_01]: He wore a baseball hat that red and the [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my gosh, that gives me chills. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he said, who am I? [SPEAKER_01]: I am a very lucky man. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm lucky that so many people believed in me.
[SPEAKER_01]: He acknowledged that he survived the sort of deal thanks to a huge network of supporters, lawyers that were pro bono. [SPEAKER_01]: journalist, other inmates, family, activist, you name it. [SPEAKER_01]: But he also did not sugarco what happened in. [SPEAKER_01]: He said this isn't a celebration. [SPEAKER_01]: This is an indictment of the system. [SPEAKER_01]: He has felt that his case exposed deep flaws in the justice system. [SPEAKER_01]: And he's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a bittersweet [SPEAKER_01]: Also, let me just tell you, since Bragg has taken office, there have been, I think, ten wrongful convictions that he has gone in out so far, that's a lot, which is a lot, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: J. J. Velasquez is a free man now with a clean slate. [SPEAKER_01]: He is making the most of his time. [SPEAKER_01]: You remember that prison program voices from within? [SPEAKER_01]: He has now the co-founder and executive director for that non-profit.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's based in New York. [SPEAKER_01]: He goes back into prison system now. [SPEAKER_01]: He talks to people. [SPEAKER_01]: in prison about amazing being a better person and how to be a better person. [SPEAKER_01]: And he... [SPEAKER_01]: you know, steers youth into the right direction and away from crime.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then also he is a program director for Frederick Douglass Project for Justice, which is a national organization focused on bridging the gap between the public and those behind bars to humanize the justice system. [SPEAKER_01]: And so he's a very busy guy. [SPEAKER_01]: He's a very amazing guy. [SPEAKER_01]: Also, he went in 2022 to meet the president and President Joe Biden apologized on behalf of the public for what he has gone through.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, but it's like nothing makes it any better. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it doesn't make it any better. [SPEAKER_02]: Nothing that can fix all those years behind bars, [SPEAKER_02]: real life. [SPEAKER_01]: Now there's this whole series, um, told by Dan, um, on a dayline podcast, it's called letters from Sing Sing. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and I highly recommend it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then up and so on and I cried multiple times. [SPEAKER_01]: I cried when I need that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Dan goes through and for 15 years, tapes all these conversations with JJ with JJ's kids, with JJ's kids growing up. [SPEAKER_01]: Dan knew [SPEAKER_01]: Dan has known this man for 20 of the 23 years. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, he's just, he's known JJ through it all through his kids growing up and talking to his mom in Mike.
[SPEAKER_01]: the cry that his mom let out when he was a lot out of prison is like you can't your his mom fought for him for so many hours knowing like I can't imagine being like I was on the phone with my son what the actual F like I couldn't I don't know yeah it would [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure somebody who has a family member that's been convicted and you believe that they are in a center or whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure sometimes you lay there at night and go, what if or what about or maybe I'm wrong because it plays with your head or whatever it may be, right? [SPEAKER_02]: But when you know so matter of factly and you watch somebody go through that, [SPEAKER_02]: knowing that there is zero chance it was him. [SPEAKER_02]: I just cannot even fathom what that would be like. [SPEAKER_02]: That's hard. [SPEAKER_02]: That's really hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, stay tuned for Wednesday's episode with Tom Smith from the NYPD. [SPEAKER_01]: He's also has podcast called Gold Shield. [SPEAKER_01]: It's very good. [SPEAKER_01]: He's a dear friend of mine and we are going to pick his brain or I'm going to pick his brain because Jen is going to be working but I'm going to pick his [SPEAKER_01]: Also, I'm going to apologize for the audio because it looks like my mic's working, but it's really not.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's all for today, Jenny. [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: If you haven't rated in review to see it, please do so, follow us on all of our social media channels, and if you can, please, [SPEAKER_01]: Um, or if you want more of us, we are going to do a paranormal case in two weeks. [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be a good one.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can find that on patreon.com forward slash housewives a true crime or on clinkling club on Apple. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, clink, clink, clink, clink, clink.